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has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20141209 08:50:13-!- JackBauer24 [~JackBauer@89-71-84-205.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20141209 08:52:26-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20141209 08:52:38-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@50-108-67-218.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 08:57:10-!- Earlo [~Earlo@213.143.167.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20141209 09:06:34-!- celmin [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 09:06:34-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20141209 09:06:34-!- celmin is now known as celticminstrel 20141209 09:19:22-!- PjotrOrial [quassel@unaffiliated/pjotrorial] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20141209 09:22:19-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20141209 09:23:42-!- celmin [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 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It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20141209 09:38:50-!- PjotrOrial [~stefanb@quassel.woboq.com] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 09:38:50-!- PjotrOrial [~stefanb@quassel.woboq.com] has quit [Changing host] 20141209 09:38:50-!- PjotrOrial [~stefanb@unaffiliated/pjotrorial] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 09:38:58-!- hagabaka [quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 09:42:23-!- hagabaka [quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 20141209 09:42:28-!- PjotrOrial [~stefanb@unaffiliated/pjotrorial] has quit [Client Quit] 20141209 10:23:11-!- Trueist [05a5bd5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.165.189.90] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 10:23:57< Trueist> why are there so few players at 1.12? 20141209 10:25:21< Trueist> Did I compile wrong tag? 1.12? 20141209 10:26:11< Rhonda> Maybe a fair amount of people are still on 1.10 20141209 10:27:34< loonycyborg> 1.12 is very recent 20141209 10:28:08< Trueist> Well, GNU/Linux certainly, package management is flawed, APPLICATION BUNDLES are what's right, or Windows installer.exe. 20141209 10:28:26< Trueist> Ubuntu still has 1.10. 20141209 10:28:47< Trueist> Does Wesnoth have update notifier on Windows? 20141209 10:31:45< Rhonda> Thanks for your nice and heart-warming words. 20141209 10:32:25< Rhonda> I still try to do my best to keep Debian and Ubuntu updated. It's just that the freeze of Debian currently gets in the way to get the updated package in, and thus the NEW processing is postponed at the moment. 20141209 10:32:41< Rhonda> But you're welcome to call it a failure. 20141209 10:32:43< Trueist> Truth is an outcast everywhere. 20141209 10:32:59< Trueist> "freeze of Debian" - THAT'S what's wrong with distributions and package management. 20141209 10:33:25< Rhonda> Right. Thanks for your insightful and well informed comments. 20141209 10:33:26< Trueist> Applications should be packaged as BUNDLES, like Windows installer.exe, maybe with more formalized installation system, but still without super-broad dependency trees. 20141209 10:34:08< Rhonda> If you don't have dependencies, the security updates will become a horror. 20141209 10:34:18< Trueist> Users don't care. 20141209 10:34:24< Rhonda> I know that you don't care. 20141209 10:34:45< Rhonda> That doesn't mean that there is not a valid and good reason to it. 20141209 10:35:02< Rhonda> You can always compile it yourself. HAND. 20141209 10:35:06< Trueist> Applications should be sandboxed anyway, and especially games like Wesnoth shouldn't get the privileges to do any real harm. 20141209 10:35:23< Trueist> "You can always compile it yourself. HAND." - the essence of "free" software. 20141209 10:37:05< Rhonda> Welcome apparmor. 20141209 10:37:20< Trueist> Stallman's idea of software could have WINGS, could have been true Free Software, but what we have today it a shadow of what it could have been. 20141209 10:38:43< Trueist> AppArmor doesn't provide the system. Application sandboxing could possibly be based on AppArmor but not without some additions. 20141209 10:39:48< Trueist> Why can't I just cd wesnoth && make? It could install dependencies for me, automatically. Look JHBuild. That's what a build system should look like. 20141209 10:40:15< Trueist> Free Software needs real freedom, freedom that's accessible. 20141209 10:40:52< Rhonda> Then do it. 20141209 10:41:09< Rhonda> It's Free Software, you can adapt it to your likes. 20141209 10:42:26< Trueist> There have been attempts, Linstaller, Glick2. 20141209 10:43:39< Trueist> Personally I have faith in GNOME 3. In fact I'm just parroting GNOME 3 ideas here. 20141209 10:44:02< Rhonda> But speaking about accessible, wesnoth itself isn't accessible. Can't work with screen reader and stuff. 20141209 10:44:26< Rhonda> So maybe you have a different opinion on what "accessible" means to you. 20141209 10:45:39< Trueist> Yes. Ie. command line in English only is less accessible than localized GUI. 20141209 10:45:58< Trueist> Localized GUI with screen reader is more accessible than one without. 20141209 10:48:35< Trueist> Only having to do cd program && make or just plain open a folder in an IDE is more accessible than having to deal with bullshit like GNU autotools, searching dependency pacakages, C++ error messages because apparently compilers are too stupid and they dont' bother NOT to expand every template all the way down to the bottom-most typedef. 20141209 10:49:23< Trueist> Free Software depending on volunteers, doesn't it make sense NOT to pile up entry-barriers like street riot barricades? 20141209 10:49:59< Trueist> There's ONE Windows, ONE Visual Studio, ONE .vcproj, ONE. 20141209 10:53:03< Trueist> The SOLUTION is a stable PLATFORRM, so USER application developers are set to build on ROCK, not on SAND. 20141209 10:54:09< Trueist> This is a blindingly OBVIOUS truth, but most people acquire a strong Stockholm syndrome or simply keep silent about it out of fear of being banned as "trolls". 20141209 10:55:35< Trueist> Hugbox, groupthink, self-censorship. 20141209 10:56:39-!- Trueist [05a5bd5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.165.189.90] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20141209 10:57:41< shadowm> Too bad you quit right before I was going to say that you are welcome to devote time to packaging and maintaining a universal Linux bundle for Wesnoth, as well as update notifications for all platforms. 20141209 10:57:45< zookeeper> i tried, but couldn't come up with anything witty to say. 20141209 11:03:37-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20141209 12:02:08-!- JackBauer24 [~JackBauer@89-71-84-205.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 12:41:42-!- DHost [~Pcy@sd.pny.ovh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20141209 12:50:42-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20141209 13:43:27-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 13:44:10-!- PjotrOrial [stefanb@unaffiliated/pjotrorial] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 13:44:39-!- jesusalva [~jesusalva@177.95.7.131] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 14:20:31-!- jesusalva [~jesusalva@177.95.7.131] has quit [Quit: Lunch break! BBL, probably. Good bye everyone.] 20141209 14:26:00-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 14:53:16-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20141209 15:45:12-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 15:48:18-!- JackBauer24 [~JackBauer@89-71-84-205.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20141209 15:49:31-!- Earlo [~Earlo@213.143.167.6] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 16:11:51-!- happygrue [~Laptop@2601:6:4380:909:b9c2:7c15:ee72:ce9d] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 16:11:52-!- happygrue [~Laptop@2601:6:4380:909:b9c2:7c15:ee72:ce9d] has quit [Changing host] 20141209 16:11:52-!- happygrue [~Laptop@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 16:51:21-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66866-finc15-2-0-cust47.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 16:56:46-!- Giratina548 [~Giratina5@107-209-131-23.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 17:09:48-!- thunderstruck [~thunderst@cpc8-sgyl29-2-0-cust37.sgyl.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 17:13:45-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66866-finc15-2-0-cust47.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20141209 17:23:39-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d41ea8.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20141209 17:24:01-!- DCW1 [~Thunderbi@cpc66866-finc15-2-0-cust47.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 17:29:42-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d41ea8.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 17:42:29-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 18:11:17-!- jesusalva [~jesusalva@177.95.7.131] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 18:13:32< jesusalva> hi 20141209 18:14:56-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 18:53:59-!- DCW1 [~Thunderbi@cpc66866-finc15-2-0-cust47.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20141209 19:42:07-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 19:50:25< Rhonda> zookeeper: in which channel did this ovation question pop up? 20141209 19:51:07< zookeeper> here, IIRC 20141209 19:51:26< Rhonda> It was just one person, right? 20141209 19:51:43< Rhonda> If it happens more regularly, we might have something to complain about to the launchpad admins. 20141209 19:52:02< Rhonda> Currently their standing is, the launchpad user just points to the wesnoth *nickname*, not the channel. 20141209 19:52:42< Rhonda> … which was last used a year ago. :/ 20141209 19:55:52-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20141209 19:58:05-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 20:02:46-!- j3m4dux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 20:03:37-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20141209 20:05:56-!- panda__ [~IMO@AMontsouris-653-1-315-155.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 20:14:44< zookeeper> Rhonda, i don't recall if it was the same person, probably was 20141209 20:16:49< jesusalva> hi 20141209 20:23:07-!- happygrue [~Laptop@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20141209 20:29:29-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 20:29:32< shadowm> A U.S. IP and a Russian IP, respectively. Doesn't look like it. 20141209 20:30:53< zookeeper> oh. 20141209 20:33:09< shadowm> The ovation-obsessed person always comes from the same IP though. 20141209 20:34:44< zookeeper> well i meant the ovation-obsessed person 20141209 20:36:23< shadowm> Ah right, for a moment I had considered the possibility he might have decided to try Wesnoth. 20141209 20:37:19< shadowm> And abandoned his "touch lover" ways and turned into an angry rambling "trueist". 20141209 20:46:06-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Bye for now] 20141209 20:48:31-!- fabi [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20141209 21:00:54-!- j3m4dux is now known as jemadux 20141209 21:02:09-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 21:03:38-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 21:05:21< jesusalva> bye. 20141209 21:05:54-!- jesusalva [~jesusalva@177.95.7.131] has quit [Quit: God bless you! BBL, possibly...] 20141209 21:06:42-!- Ravana_ [SZ_Bot@27-83-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20141209 21:06:54-!- Ravana_ [~SZ_Bot@27-83-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 21:16:19-!- Vorpal [~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20141209 21:17:27-!- Vorpal [~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 21:18:34-!- Giratina548 [~Giratina5@107-209-131-23.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20141209 21:18:55-!- Giratina548 [~Giratina5@107-209-131-23.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 21:29:17-!- Giratina548 [~Giratina5@107-209-131-23.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20141209 21:31:17-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20141209 21:31:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 21:33:38-!- alezost [~user@128-74-166-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: I use GNU Guix ] 20141209 21:35:25-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai] 20141209 21:44:07-!- happygrue [~Laptop@2601:6:4380:909:b9c2:7c15:ee72:ce9d] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 21:44:08-!- happygrue [~Laptop@2601:6:4380:909:b9c2:7c15:ee72:ce9d] has quit [Changing host] 20141209 21:44:08-!- happygrue [~Laptop@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 22:01:18-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20141209 22:02:08-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 22:12:00-!- DreadKnight [~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 22:18:53-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20141209 22:19:10-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 22:24:03-!- Earlo [~Earlo@213.143.167.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20141209 22:27:15-!- fabi [~quassel@p20030051AA4C4645CD6B94D4D6C29B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 22:27:22-!- fabi [~quassel@p20030051AA4C4645CD6B94D4D6C29B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20141209 22:27:22-!- fabi [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 22:28:37-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20141209 22:30:52-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 22:41:50-!- fendrin [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 22:41:59-!- fabi [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20141209 22:45:39-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Quit: Haldrik] 20141209 23:07:17-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20141209 23:07:37-!- Vorpal [~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20141209 23:08:54-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 23:09:36-!- Vorpal [~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 23:11:55-!- panda__ [~IMO@AMontsouris-653-1-315-155.w90-44.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20141209 23:18:47-!- DreadKnight [~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight] has quit [Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com )] 20141209 23:20:41-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20141209 23:25:51-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20141209 23:27:31-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth 20141209 23:31:25-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20141209 23:43:41-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] --- Log closed Wed Dec 10 00:00:04 2014