--- Log opened Sat Jan 10 00:00:10 2015
--- Day changed Sat Jan 10 2015
20150110 00:00:10< gfgtdf> zookeeper: and that happens hen you quit the game ? :o
20150110 00:01:02< zookeeper> the other player (my other client) quit the game, at which point i chose "replace with AI" and immediately closed the app window -> that assert happened
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20150110 00:14:19< gfgtdf> zookeeper: ok i was now also able to reproduce the illegal command by recruiting a unit after logging DSU on teh other client.
20150110 00:15:42< zookeeper> great
20150110 00:16:01< zookeeper> btw, i don't think it's wrong for the option to be available for toggling when it's not your turn
20150110 00:18:13< zookeeper> in fact IMO it _should_ be available even when it's not your turn. there's no reason not to, since your next turn will still start exactly the same way regardless of whether it's on or off.
20150110 00:20:29< gfgtdf> zookeeper: well it'd be rather complicated to enable and i see littel gain in it since one can easily toggle it at the end of teh last turn or at teh end of teh nexxt turn.
20150110 00:20:43< gfgtdf> at the start of teh nex turn*
20150110 00:28:50< zookeeper> sure, easily, if you still remember that you forgot it in the wrong position.
20150110 00:29:01< zookeeper> it's not a big deal if it's indeed complicated to allow
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20150110 00:57:08< irker482> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 2a395fb75011 / src/hotkey_handler_sp.cpp: don't allow toggle shroud during enemies turn. http://git.io/4j2Vsw
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20150110 00:57:25< gfgtdf> zookeeper: ^
20150110 00:58:19< zookeeper> cool
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20150110 01:01:45< irker482> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.12 fd6ad6d46483 / src/playsingle_controller.cpp: don't allow toggle shroud during enemies turn.  http://git.io/LIH-dw
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20150110 01:33:19< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#5487 (master - 2a395fb : gfgtdf): The build was broken.
20150110 01:33:19< travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/46517882
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20150110 01:46:45< gfgtdf> iceiceice: you know what's the differene between play_controller::current_side() and game_display::playing_team() ?
20150110 02:11:54< vultraz> iceiceice: the quit (esc) hotkey in the editor is still broken
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20150110 07:07:04< Necrosporus> What do you think about http://pastebin.com/etqK77wM such syntax for unit description? Would it be better or worse than existing?
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20150110 09:04:52< irker649> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 814acfaf7ce2 / po/ (wesnoth-l/ru.po wesnoth/ru.po): updated Russian translation http://git.io/6dbRGw
20150110 09:04:52< irker649> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 0764e0ac13c5 / changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-l/ru.po po/wesnoth/ru.po: updated Russian translation http://git.io/BAmyIA
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20150110 09:50:19< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#5489 (master - 814acfa : Nils Kneuper): The build was fixed.
20150110 09:50:19< travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/46536198
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20150110 14:27:21< zookeeper> lipkab, i think the difference in our fog_datas is that eastern cavalryman of mine: i think my client's idea of my fog_data corresponds with what it would be if i had not moved the cavalryman there (because i had DSU on, perhaps?), and your client's idea of my fog_data is the correct one (that is, your client's idea of my fog_data is that much of the northeast corner has been cleared)
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20150110 14:34:13< gfgtdf> zookeeper: you still get OOS ?
20150110 14:34:34< gfgtdf> zookeeper: after my commit i mean.
20150110 14:34:46< zookeeper> i don't know
20150110 14:36:26< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i asked becasue you talked about shroud data mismatch
20150110 14:37:49< zookeeper> yes, we made a manual save at the same time during lipkab's turn, and our saves differ in what they think my fog_data is like
20150110 14:38:19< gfgtdf> zookeeper: was this a new game the same game as yesterday ?
20150110 14:38:26< zookeeper> the original game yesterday
20150110 14:38:49< gfgtdf> zookeeper: ok, then probably i shouldnt worry,
20150110 14:38:58< gfgtdf> zookeeper: but shroud data mismatch is likeley to cause OOS.
20150110 14:42:36< zookeeper> oh, wait, the differing client opinion is about his fog_data, not mine.
20150110 14:43:05< gfgtdf> zookeeper: yes
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20150110 14:44:07< gfgtdf> zookeeper: toggeling DSU always toggles it for teh currentyl plaing side, so if you toggle DSU while its not your turn you toggle it for hist side but only on your client.
20150110 14:44:20< zookeeper> ah
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20150110 14:44:31< irker551> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.12 7aaa9829a680 / changelog: Update changelog http://git.io/spGPLg
20150110 14:44:44< zookeeper> well, i guess that could explain all of it?
20150110 14:46:11< gfgtdf> zookeeper: what is "all of it" ?
20150110 14:46:28< zookeeper> all of the OOS we got
20150110 14:47:25< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i think yes.
20150110 14:48:10< zookeeper> i guess my client had DSU on for lipkab's side, so when he moved a unit and sighted my unit and his unit stopped and he moved it again, my client didn't understand why there was two moves because my client thought he didn't sight anything during the move?
20150110 14:49:00< zookeeper> but somehow the unit still ended up in the same place on both clients and there was no "real" OOS?
20150110 14:50:00< zookeeper> i dunno if that makes sense. i think his client would only send the first half of the move
20150110 14:50:11< zookeeper> and then the other, separately
20150110 14:50:13 * zookeeper shrugs
20150110 14:51:01< gfgtdf> zookeeper: no teh client sends teh full move even it was was not completed, and relies on teh other client to calculate teh destination correctly
20150110 14:51:12< zookeeper> really? okay then
20150110 14:51:13< gfgtdf> zookeeper: so yes it can happen exactl as you say.
20150110 14:51:18< zookeeper> cool
20150110 14:53:57< zookeeper> but doesn't that mean that my client would have always moved the unit to the original attempted destination and just ignored the extra moves he made after sighting my units? since he surely sometimes changed plans at that point, shouldn't we have ended up with our clients actually going OOS WRT unit positions?
20150110 14:54:10< zookeeper> or were we just really lucky and he always ended up moving to the original destination?
20150110 14:56:56< gfgtdf> zookeeper: my My guees would be that you were lucky
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20150110 14:59:41< zookeeper> right
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20150110 16:05:44< zookeeper> what's with https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/365 ? not that i'm an expert, but "I would there were more I could do to help you" sounds perfectly legitimate to me
20150110 16:12:14< shadowm> The submitter doesn't know about 'would' as an archaic equivalent of 'to wish/desire/want', yes.
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20150110 16:16:11< irker551> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 277402966a05 / data/ai/ (ais/ai_default_rca_strong.cfg dev/akihara_recruitment.cfg): Remove inclusions of data/core/macros from data/ai http://git.io/Lw6zbQ
20150110 16:16:14< irker551> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 61a7527a7119 / data/themes/ (8 files): Rename data/themes/macros.cfg and include it only once instead of 7 times http://git.io/8i3Chg
20150110 16:17:12< shadowm> mattsc: If you could verify that I didn't break some weird mode I didn't know about in commit 277402966a05...
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20150110 16:54:41< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#5492 (master - 61a7527 : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build has errored.
20150110 16:54:41< travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/46559255
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20150110 17:02:48< shadowm> master segfaults when attempting to load AtS E1.
20150110 17:03:51< shadowm> Before even displaying the storyscreen, and oddly enough that doesn't happen with E2, which also has a storyscreen. Hm.
20150110 17:07:08< shadowm> Just throwing this in here in case somebody needs to know, although I believe it's a known bug: https://gist.github.com/shikadilord/5f1a2fee91fb1c1fd377
20150110 17:10:58< shadowm> zookeeper: So what do you think of a warning about redefining macros?
20150110 17:11:56< zookeeper> shadowm, hrhm, i think i'd prefer no warning; it seems like a valid use of macros to for example redefine them locally
20150110 17:12:27< shadowm> In that case you can use #undef.
20150110 17:12:36< zookeeper> right
20150110 17:12:43< gfgtdf> shadowm: it maybe teh same bug as discusseed here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/364 which happen if you have a starting unit/leader (inside [side]) on a village hex.
20150110 17:13:06< shadowm> A prototype of the warning led me to discover those redundant inclusions in HEAD and HEAD^.
20150110 17:14:09< zookeeper> shadowm, considering that, yeah, i guess there could be a warning... stderr only or also an in-game message?
20150110 17:14:17< shadowm> Only stderr.
20150110 17:14:22< zookeeper> agreed, then
20150110 17:14:36< shadowm> Currently only EI, LoW, and UtBS produce warnings (didn't test all difficulties, only the defaults).
20150110 17:15:39< zookeeper> shadowm, i'm guessing you can't redefine a macro like this?
20150110 17:15:41< zookeeper> #define FOO
20150110 17:15:42< zookeeper> {FOO} # insert contents of previous definition
20150110 17:15:42< zookeeper> # append new stuff here
20150110 17:15:42< zookeeper> #enddef
20150110 17:15:43< shadowm> gfgtdf: I don't have any leaders on villages at the start of the scenario.
20150110 17:15:58< shadowm> zookeeper: I don't know, I've never tried.
20150110 17:16:19< zookeeper> i'm pretty sure i remember trying it once but no way i remember the result :p
20150110 17:16:21< shadowm> gfgtdf: Oh, other units perhaps.
20150110 17:16:27< zookeeper> ah well, i'll just try it quickly...
20150110 17:16:56< shadowm> Yeah, I have the one guy on a village.
20150110 17:17:36< shadowm> gfgtdf: Yeah, that's it.
20150110 17:18:20< shadowm> gfgtdf: But this PR hasn't been merged yet, has it?
20150110 17:18:35< gfgtdf> shadowm: no it hasnt
20150110 17:18:44< shadowm> Oh nvm further down you say it's not a bug from the PR.
20150110 17:19:00< zookeeper> shadowm, looks like it just results in an error: "Too much nested preprocessing inclusions"
20150110 17:19:34< shadowm> Oh yes, now I remember your proposal served as the ultimate test case for a resource starvation bug.
20150110 17:19:40< zookeeper> that is, it goes into infinite recursion or something like that and then hits the limit
20150110 17:22:22< shadowm> The last time I touched UtBS people died, so I'd rather not try to investigate this: http://pastebin.com/G5sEhqzN
20150110 17:23:07< lipkab> *insert fanfares here* https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3kcrsf0xf5gs3s/wesstats.png?dl=0
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20150110 17:26:21< shadowm> Yeah, inefficient reinclusions.
20150110 17:26:58< shadowm> http://pastebin.com/YNjVJYVJ
20150110 17:27:39< shadowm> And of course that file is already included from _main.cfg along with the rest of the utils dir.
20150110 17:29:14< shadowm> All I wanted to do was detect terrain graphics macro redefinitions in my own campaign.
20150110 17:30:03< Necrosporus> What are that stats, lipkab ?
20150110 17:30:54< lipkab> Necrosporus: I'm working a utility that can import data from replays to an SQL database.
20150110 17:31:16< lipkab> That stuff is the first result.
20150110 17:31:26< lipkab> *on a utility
20150110 17:32:18< Necrosporus> So you are trying to calculate how often people play specific scenario
20150110 17:32:33< shadowm> Okay, deaths.cfg is needed in every scenario.
20150110 17:32:34< Necrosporus> I wonder what happens if you do not allow observers
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20150110 17:32:51< Necrosporus> replays are not saved 
20150110 17:32:59< Necrosporus> but what about statistics?
20150110 17:33:09< shadowm> Aaaaaaaand uses macros to give the file some "state".
20150110 17:33:45< lipkab> Necrosporus: Oh no, I don't care how often people play each map.
20150110 17:33:54< lipkab> That's just a demonstration.
20150110 17:34:09< shadowm> dehydration-utils.cfg is evil and includes an event handler directly.
20150110 17:34:15< zookeeper> shadowm, yeah, well, i guess the most common case of redefinition is when a utils file is included for its events...
20150110 17:34:19< shadowm> If [event] worked at top level we'd have problems.
20150110 17:34:24< lipkab> This database stores other stuff as well.
20150110 17:34:42< lipkab> Recruits, battles...
20150110 17:34:47< shadowm> And I wanted to look into making [event] work at top level, so...
20150110 17:34:57< zookeeper> shadowm, if you want me to split the file (or whatever i find the best method) then sure i can, but don't be afraid of touching it yourself :P
20150110 17:35:15< shadowm> kaleh-abilities.cfg is evil too.
20150110 17:35:34< zookeeper> remember, people only die if you break something, so just don't break anything and everything will be fine :>
20150110 17:35:41< lipkab> Obviously I can't analyse those replays that aren't saved, but we still have a lot of data.
20150110 17:35:47< shadowm> terrain.cfg and terrain_graphics.cfg too.
20150110 17:36:04< shadowm> I suppose half of the problem is that I come from "utils is for macros only" land.
20150110 17:36:51< Necrosporus> And for multiplayers. Players still prefer 1.10.7 seems they say 1.12.0 is buggy. I wonder if developers have tried to play 1.12.0 multiplayer especially campaigns
20150110 17:37:00< shadowm> Okay, looking at it from a different perspective, dialog-macros.cfg does not need to be reincluded.
20150110 17:38:52< Necrosporus> What's the problem with macros? If some utils contain event maybe it's better to make another dir for them like eventutils and include files from under there from specific scenarios but not from _main.cfg?
20150110 17:39:36< Necrosporus> eventutils/death.cfg 
20150110 17:39:38< Necrosporus> like that
20150110 17:39:40< shadowm> Your question sucks.
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20150110 17:39:54< Necrosporus> Which one?
20150110 17:39:56< shadowm> I never said there was a "problem with macros".
20150110 17:40:50< shadowm> 20150110 14:40:29 warning config: Redefining macro HYDRATING_TILES at campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/dehydration-utils.cfg:4
20150110 17:41:14< shadowm> So yeah, not sure if perhaps I should demote the warning to info.
20150110 17:41:33< shadowm> Or just keep it to myself, that also works.
20150110 17:42:59< irker551> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master e8650ac872ba / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/ (6 files): UtBS: Drop redundant reinclusions of utils/dialog-macros.cfg http://git.io/B4OsOw
20150110 17:44:06< shadowm> For that matter, someone's decision to add the Fall schedule to core means my add-on also generates warnings and I'm not too sure I want to dignify that decision with #undefs.
20150110 17:45:53< Necrosporus> shadowm, I never said you said there was problem with macros. Anyway you mention problem of double inclusion. Do you think solution I proposed won't help?
20150110 17:46:00< shadowm> And now that I've made sure I don't have any terrain graphics duplicates, I can go back to my original mission of trying to make a terrain work.
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20150110 17:54:27< Necrosporus> shadowm, ok other question. Are there any problems with UtBS in mainline?
20150110 17:54:55< shadowm> UtBS has been in mainline since version 1.1.2.
20150110 17:55:43< Necrosporus> I know
20150110 18:00:39< zookeeper> yes, there are
20150110 18:02:40< shadowm> Okay here's the literal interpretation of the question then: yes, just like with every other thing in mainline, there are problems; people usually call them "bugs" and we've got a tracker full of them.
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20150110 18:25:45< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#5493 (master - e8650ac : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build passed.
20150110 18:25:45< travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/46565267
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20150110 20:22:27< irker551> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 776a2e70fcc6 / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/KOyujg
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20150110 20:56:25< irker551> wesnoth: Elias Pschernig wesnoth:master 5a599b935bb6 / data/tools/unit_tree/html_output.py: [units.wesnoth.org] fix race links http://git.io/H4g_Jw
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20150110 22:22:26< mattsc> shadowm: I vaguely remember something from a long time ago that macros weren’t defined yet by the time an AI configuration file was included, but I just did a whole bunch of tests both in MP and SP and that does not seem to be that case any more.
20150110 22:23:22< mattsc> So your commit doesn’t cause any problems, AFAICT, and not including macros twice is definitely a good thing.
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20150110 22:29:57< mattsc> Oh, I think I know what it was …
20150110 22:30:18< mattsc> Testing …
20150110 22:39:36< mattsc> shadowm: Okay, so there is a problem after all. If you start an AI game from the commandline like this: http://pastebin.com/TFfLxiS4
20150110 22:40:13< mattsc> Then the macros are not defined and the game exits with a “macro missing” error.
20150110 22:41:12< mattsc> Now, I am not sure what the best way to deal with this is.  Not including the macros twice would be nice, but I am not sure how easily doable that is.
20150110 22:41:34< mattsc> At the very least though, we should not include all macros, but only core/macros/ai_candidate_actions.cfg
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--- Log closed Sun Jan 11 00:00:02 2015