--- Log opened Thu Jan 08 00:00:30 2015
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20150108 00:29:54< patwotrik> Hi
20150108 00:30:42< patwotrik> On wesnoth.org the source was 380MB, but when I'm downloading from Git i'm at 14% and I've downloaded 556MB
20150108 00:30:44< patwotrik> wtf?
20150108 00:31:06< Smar> git contains all of the history
20150108 00:31:15< patwotrik> tru
20150108 00:31:16< patwotrik> e
20150108 00:31:20< patwotrik> damn
20150108 00:31:25< patwotrik> this will take a while...
20150108 00:31:57< Smar> note that if your connection breaks down, you need to start from beginning... :)
20150108 00:32:52< patwotrik> hmmm
20150108 00:33:07< patwotrik> and i don't think i need the repo anyway
20150108 00:33:13< patwotrik> i just want the 1.12 version
20150108 00:33:28< Smar> why not take release source package ten?
20150108 00:33:30< Smar> then*
20150108 00:33:42< patwotrik> i just started downloading it
20150108 00:33:46< Smar> there is also shallow clones
20150108 00:33:51< Smar> yep ^^
20150108 00:34:02< patwotrik> Debian testing doesn't have 1.12
20150108 00:34:36< Smar> don’t know really about debian
20150108 00:34:40< Smar> anyway, I’m off ->
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20150108 16:29:12< patwotrik> Is the in-game chat irc compatible in some way?
20150108 16:29:36< patwotrik> would be nice to use an irc client instead of the game chat
20150108 16:30:14< celticminstrel> It's completely different from IRC, so...
20150108 16:30:38< zookeeper> there's irc channels onto which the lobby chat is echoed, but i believe it only works one way
20150108 16:32:43< Ravana_> for people without voice indeed
20150108 16:33:13< Ravana_> based on topic at least
20150108 16:35:55< Ravana_> patwotrik: your question seems to be related to the reason I observe http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40934 , as I wrote there that could be used as link between irc and game
20150108 16:40:30< patwotrik> Ravana_, I'll have a look
20150108 16:40:51< patwotrik> Maybe it would be good to convert the whole chat system to irc
20150108 16:41:05< patwotrik> Are there drawbacks, except for the workload to do so?
20150108 16:42:43< Soliton> it'd be an entirely different protocol in parallel to the existing one.
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20150108 16:43:19 * celticminstrel reads that thread.
20150108 16:43:32< celticminstrel> ...why would you have to recompile Wesnoth to get a lobby bot?
20150108 16:43:40< patwotrik> To bad irc wasn't chosen from the beginning then
20150108 16:43:51< celticminstrel> All a lobby bot needs to do is understand the same network protocol that Wesnoth uses.
20150108 16:44:10< Soliton> it'd be an entirely different protocol in parallel from the beginning then.
20150108 16:44:21< celticminstrel> (Though, if I understand correctly, that consists of compressed WML, so it's probably a difficult protocol to understand.)
20150108 16:44:39< Soliton> unless you suggest to encode all the network traffic as IRC communication.
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20150108 16:45:20< celticminstrel> If you want a bot that can play games as an AI player, though, altering Wesnoth does seem like a better choice.
20150108 16:46:18< celticminstrel> ...heh, pretty much exactly what I said is mentioned a bit later.
20150108 16:47:07< Ravana_> I tried to use the protocol but I couldnt get any response from server
20150108 16:47:23< celticminstrel> Probably used it wrong?
20150108 16:47:25< Soliton> there are already lobby bots, btw.
20150108 16:48:03< patwotrik> Maybe it could be possible to write a pidgin plugin for the chat
20150108 16:48:06< Ravana_> probably, I have only used html requests successfully
20150108 16:48:19< patwotrik> but it's beyond my knowledge
20150108 16:48:21< celticminstrel> ...what, patwotrik?
20150108 16:49:00< patwotrik> what's unclear?
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20150108 16:49:12< celticminstrel> I'm not sure what you mean.
20150108 16:49:15< celticminstrel> In general.
20150108 16:49:20< celticminstrel> About the pidgin plugin thing.
20150108 16:49:21< patwotrik> Do you know Pidgin?
20150108 16:49:27< celticminstrel> Vaguely?
20150108 16:49:32< celticminstrel> I know of it.
20150108 16:49:42< patwotrik> I'd like to use Pidgin to handle the in-game chat
20150108 16:49:54< celticminstrel> Meaning...
20150108 16:50:09< celticminstrel> The chat shows up in Pidgin?
20150108 16:50:14< patwotrik> Yes
20150108 16:50:33< celticminstrel> That doesn't sound very difficult, actually.
20150108 16:50:46< celticminstrel> Though, I have no idea what pidgin's API is like.  It might be harder than it sounds.
20150108 16:51:16< patwotrik> Probably
20150108 16:51:22< patwotrik> Everything is harder than it sounds :)
20150108 16:51:41< celticminstrel> Heh.
20150108 16:51:42< Soliton> should be as difficult as implementing any other protocol as a pidgin plugin.
20150108 16:51:50< celticminstrel> Pretty much.
20150108 16:52:09< patwotrik> And I guess that's far from trivial
20150108 16:52:25< celticminstrel> Depends on pidgin's API, really. And Wesnoth's protocol.
20150108 16:53:53< patwotrik> It would make it a lot easier to chat with specific persons, both in-game and in lobby
20150108 16:53:58< patwotrik> Hmmm
20150108 16:54:05< patwotrik> Maybe I'll give it a shot some day
20150108 16:55:05< celticminstrel> Wesnoth's protocol is WML-based, so that's already non-trivial.
20150108 16:55:30< patwotrik> And I don't know that WML means so it's probably to hard for me :)
20150108 16:57:33< lipkab> "It would make it a lot easier to chat with specific persons, both in-game and in lobby" <- I fail to see the advantage of having to switch to a different application to say something while playing a game.
20150108 16:58:05< patwotrik> lipkab, I take it you don't have multiple monitors? ;)
20150108 16:59:00< lipkab> That's right, but I'd need to switch applications even if I had multiple monitors.
20150108 16:59:41< patwotrik> I'm playing Wesnoth on my left screen now, and I chat here on irc on the other
20150108 17:00:29< Soliton> it's useful if you don't want to/can't open wesnoth. which is why we have such a system for server moderators/admins.
20150108 17:01:27< lipkab> Soliton: I'm referring to the "chatting in-game" scenario. If you can't open  Wesnoth, you can't be in-game.
20150108 17:01:54< lipkab> patwotrik: But you're not chatting with the same people you're playing with.
20150108 17:02:19< patwotrik> Another benefit is that I would instantly see if a friend logs on Wesnoth. Then I could instantly start chatting with him and ask if he want's to play.
20150108 17:02:20< Ravana_> from my experience hourlong flame war in server chat is ignored, despite even pinging people in relevant channel here
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20150108 17:03:14< Soliton> if by ignored you mean no one saw it in time that sounds right.
20150108 17:03:53< lipkab> patwotrik: You already get a notification when a friend logs in.
20150108 17:04:14< patwotrik> lipkab, Not if I don't have started Wesnoth
20150108 17:05:16< lipkab> That's right. However, if you haven't started Wesnoth, you can't be in-game...
20150108 17:05:33< lipkab> So the in-game IRC still doesn't make any sense.
20150108 17:05:34< patwotrik> Yea, I just mentioned another benefit
20150108 17:07:12< patwotrik> I think the user interface for chatting in game has several drawbacks
20150108 17:08:39< lipkab> Which are those?
20150108 17:09:27< patwotrik> It takes a lot of effort to do stuff
20150108 17:09:43< patwotrik> Hard to look at history and separating conversations
20150108 17:10:06< zookeeper> for that particular usecase you can still just join the corresponding irc channel and get notifications as usual
20150108 17:11:04< zookeeper> well, maybe you need to do it with highlighting rather than directly with whatever kinds of friends list your irc client might support
20150108 17:12:16< patwotrik> zookeeper, what irc channel?
20150108 17:12:48< zookeeper> for example #wesnoth-mp-lobby-stable
20150108 17:12:50< lipkab> patwotrik: That's true. However, with the same effort as making Wesnoth IRC compatible, one could also fix the interface itself.
20150108 17:14:17< patwotrik> lipkab, True, but by making it IRC compatible it will be compatible with IRC for whatever reason anyone in the future would want that
20150108 17:15:16< patwotrik> I see it this way: Why reinvent the wheel?
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20150108 17:16:33< zookeeper> well that only applies to the original design :p
20150108 17:16:38< lipkab> Because the existing wheels don't fit our cart.
20150108 17:16:41< patwotrik> Indeed :)
20150108 17:17:07< patwotrik> Then maybe it could have been a good idea to design the cart differently
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20150108 17:17:17< patwotrik> I'm not trying to talk developers down
20150108 17:17:21< patwotrik> Just speculating
20150108 17:17:50< zookeeper> maybe, but it's not particularly interesting to speculate what was the best course of action sometime in 2003 or so
20150108 17:18:03< zookeeper> i don't recall when multiplayer was added
20150108 17:19:32< zookeeper> and while it might have been reinventing the wheel, if it used irc then surely we'd need to host our own irc server for it and whatever other mess that would entail
20150108 17:19:41 * zookeeper shrugs
20150108 17:20:00< patwotrik> why would hosting an irc server be so much trouble?
20150108 17:20:07< zookeeper> i don't know if it would be
20150108 17:21:21< patwotrik> irc servers are well known standard technique
20150108 17:21:27< patwotrik> (i think)
20150108 17:21:38< patwotrik> I admit that what I say may be a bit naive
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20150108 17:41:45< patwotrik> So how do we get people to use 1.12 instead of 1.10?
20150108 17:43:08< celticminstrel> Patience.
20150108 17:43:11< celticminstrel> Probably.
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20150108 17:43:50< celticminstrel> Speaking of history, I'd like to have a command history.
20150108 17:46:21< patwotrik> There's another thing. If it was compatible with some well known protocol it would be quite easy to fix that on your own.
20150108 17:47:08< patwotrik> But it's a rough transition. People don't migrate because people don't migrate.
20150108 17:47:31< patwotrik> Maybe the server could message reminders of this?
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20150108 17:55:27< zookeeper> celticminstrel, oh yeah that would be great
20150108 17:55:52< patwotrik> I've started to do my part by starting both versions. Then I create a game in 1.12 and ask people in 1.10 to join.
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20150108 17:55:59< patwotrik> oh, btw
20150108 17:56:03< patwotrik> someone wanna play?
20150108 17:56:21< celticminstrel> I'm buried in debugging right now, so...
20150108 17:57:27< patwotrik> btw
20150108 17:57:28< zookeeper> i guess i could have a match
20150108 17:57:43< patwotrik> why can't 1.10 and 1.12 be on same server?
20150108 17:57:48< patwotrik> zookeeper, what map?
20150108 17:57:51< lipkab> zookeeper: You play Wesnoth? :P
20150108 17:57:52< celticminstrel> Probably incompatiblities.
20150108 17:58:05< celticminstrel> I misspelled that. :/
20150108 17:58:17< zookeeper> lipkab, oh i've played at least 4 matches in the past month or two
20150108 17:59:22< patwotrik> zookeeper, create a game and i'll join
20150108 17:59:23< lipkab> Woa, we've gotta play some time.
20150108 17:59:23< zookeeper> patwotrik, okay, give me a minute or two to decide...
20150108 18:01:13< zookeeper> patwotrik, 4p fine with you?
20150108 18:01:44< zookeeper> lipkab, sure. this would be a good time of day for me... usually
20150108 18:01:53< zookeeper> patwotrik, well, it's up
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20150108 18:03:34< patwotrik> lipkab, come on and join
20150108 18:03:52< lipkab> patwotrik: Nah, sorry, I'm preparing for an exam.
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20150108 18:06:39< zookeeper> vultraz... you should come play
20150108 18:06:49< zookeeper> it'll be fun!
20150108 18:07:07< vultraz> it's 5 am and ive only gotten two hours of sleep. I really should get more :/
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20150108 18:07:20< zookeeper> fair enough
20150108 18:08:11< lipkab> Mm, okay, I'll go. One quick match can't hurt?
20150108 18:08:34< zookeeper> urgh
20150108 18:08:36< zookeeper> we just started :x
20150108 18:08:43< lipkab> Oh, nevermind then.
20150108 18:08:53< zookeeper> but we could do a 3p, i think? :P
20150108 18:09:12< lipkab> Of course I'm perfectly that it's goint to be nowhere near quick.
20150108 18:09:16< lipkab> *going
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20150108 18:13:35< zookeeper> well it looks like we're running with this match...
20150108 18:13:50< zookeeper> next time, then
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20150108 18:38:41< patwotrik> Another reason I want a Pidgin plugin is the same reason to why I am using Pidgin in the first place. I like having all chats in one client.
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20150108 20:05:03< patwotrik> How long did the transition from 1.8 to 1.10 take?
20150108 20:09:59< Ravana_> few months I think, that was right after I started playing
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20150108 21:33:14< marioxcc> Hi.
20150108 21:34:47< marioxcc> In Wesnoth 1.12, when several objectives are listed, do I need to meet all of them or just one of them?.
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 09 00:00:38 2015