--- Log opened Mon Jan 26 00:00:57 2015
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20150126 00:34:38< patwotrik> ups i picked the +dev branch
20150126 00:36:25< patwotrik> it was not my intention
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20150126 00:47:52< shadowm> It's functionally identical to 1.12.1 at the moment. In general, 1.12.x+dev versions should be just as stable as (or better than) released versions unless we did something wrong.
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20150126 06:26:32< Molt> is it cool to use [message] speaker=$variable  ?
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20150126 06:30:50< Molt> is it cool to use [message] speaker=$variable  ?
20150126 06:31:39< Ravana_> yes
20150126 06:32:44< Molt> super
20150126 06:32:45< Molt> thanks
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20150126 06:36:00< Molt> ravana i've got one more quick question for ya. how can I get the ID of a unit who goes to a specific x,y coordinate? I am using [event] name=moveto [filter] x=21 y=24 id=one-unit,another-unit [/filter] {VARIABLE foo.id $variable-of-unit
20150126 06:36:22< Molt> }
20150126 06:36:45< Ravana_> $unit.id
20150126 06:37:28< Molt> wow. thanks. how long have you been doing this Ravana?
20150126 06:37:40< Ravana_> since 2012
20150126 06:37:53< Ravana_> april I think
20150126 06:38:10< Ravana_> check http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SyntaxWML#Automatically_Stored_Variables
20150126 06:41:09< Molt> fantastic. thanks
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20150126 17:16:54< patwotrik> is there a mod that requires you to kill all units and not just leader?
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20150126 17:26:37< Molt> patwotrik - not that I know of, but it is definitely something that can be written
20150126 17:29:33< patwotrik> if i knew how to write mods i'd do it
20150126 17:29:40< patwotrik> i'd really like that sometimes
20150126 17:30:30< patwotrik> what are those addons called?
20150126 17:31:20< Ravana_> there is code that transfers leadership to other unit one original dies
20150126 17:31:46< Ravana_> then there are conquest versions that have little to do with normal wesnoth, there is just no reachable leader
20150126 17:32:06< Ravana_> then there is leader revival modification
20150126 17:32:32< patwotrik> what does the last one?
20150126 17:32:53< patwotrik> cause what i want is simply changing the winning condition
20150126 17:33:02< Molt> Patwotrik - Start here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Create
20150126 17:33:20< Ravana_> "Each side will spawn with a soul crystal that recruits units and revives your leader should he fall on the front lines."
20150126 17:33:28< zookeeper> "a mod" is awfully vague
20150126 17:33:52< zookeeper> there's nothing that can change such a basic gamerule globally everywhere (and have it work as you'd expect)
20150126 17:35:07< zookeeper> but if you just want it in standard'ish multiplayer, then i'd expect the leader revival thing to do that
20150126 17:36:20< patwotrik> hmmm
20150126 17:36:30< patwotrik> so i need to change the source then
20150126 17:36:32< patwotrik> ...
20150126 17:36:52< patwotrik> doesn't sound so hard to change though
20150126 17:36:58< Molt> hey guys - wondering how to get the side of a unit that kills a specific ai unit
20150126 17:36:58< patwotrik> if i just want to do that
20150126 17:37:15< Ravana_> $second_unit.side generally
20150126 17:37:17< zookeeper> Molt, the same way you got its id previously for a message
20150126 17:37:25< zookeeper> so, yes, what he said
20150126 17:37:27< Molt> sosuper
20150126 17:38:16< patwotrik> but it's a difference between just changing the condition compared to allowing two different conditions and make it backwards compatible
20150126 17:38:40< zookeeper> i still don't know where you want that mechanic.
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20150126 17:44:00< Molt> wondering you all's opinion. If I want to give an IA unit to the side of the human player that defeats it, should I: A] store the unit on it's last breath and then unstore to the human slayer's side on the ai unit's name=die [event]. Or B] could I just drop the unit again - this time with on the slayer's side simply using [unit] on the name=die [event] ?
20150126 17:45:10< celticminstrel> I think storing it would prevent the die event from triggering.
20150126 17:45:34< celticminstrel> Storing it would retain any experience it gained.
20150126 17:46:02< Molt> Don't really care about that
20150126 17:46:12< zookeeper> my first impression is that i'd 1) store it in a last breath event with kill=no and then 2) unstore it in a post attack event
20150126 17:46:19 * celticminstrel shrugs.
20150126 17:46:29< Molt> k
20150126 17:47:03< celticminstrel> Might need to restore its health as well then?
20150126 17:47:05< zookeeper> depends whether you prefer XP and such to be retained or not, and whether the death anim should play and die events trigger, etc
20150126 17:47:12< zookeeper> yes
20150126 17:47:20< Molt> when you say 'unstore in a post attack event' - could that be in the name=die [event]
20150126 17:47:32< Molt> yeah, when it comes back I want it with full life
20150126 17:47:36< celticminstrel> I think he means name=post attack
20150126 17:47:46< celticminstrel> Or something like that.
20150126 17:47:51< Molt> no death anims needed
20150126 17:48:01< zookeeper> yes, except that it's actually "attack end", not "post attack"
20150126 17:48:08< celticminstrel> Ah.
20150126 17:49:05< zookeeper> in that case i'd simply try to restore its HP in a last breath event and see whether the unit lives or not. if it does, then just change its side at the same point and you're done
20150126 17:49:35< zookeeper> i guess you can conveniently do both with a single [modify_unit] tag
20150126 17:50:10< zookeeper> if the unit dies anyway, then just store it and unstore in the attack end event as i first suggested
20150126 17:52:28< Molt> thanks for your thoughts guys
20150126 17:54:02< Molt> there is a healing animation you can play in a unit right?
20150126 17:54:08< Molt> ... hmm... i should do that
20150126 18:02:31< celticminstrel> I think the healing animation is intended for when the unit is applying healing, not for when it's being healed.
20150126 18:02:58< celticminstrel> So you probably shouldn't do that.
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20150126 18:43:56< Molt> i found another way to do it
20150126 18:44:19< Molt> anyone have experience with [unit] leader=   ?
20150126 18:45:22< Molt> it is supposed to put the unit near "the leader" ... actually, I'm just trying to find a way to put a [unit] near a specific unit on the board
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20150126 18:46:24< Molt> hmm... think i got it
20150126 18:46:25< Molt> nm
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20150126 18:49:20< celticminstrel> Filters can probably do that? Not entirely sure.
20150126 18:51:59< Ravana_> should be possible with formulas at once, or with some other structures with more lines
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20150126 18:54:58< Ravana_> then again formulas are almost undocumented so filter would be easier to use
20150126 19:07:34< zookeeper> there's no leader=
20150126 19:07:44< zookeeper> there's a placement= though, and i'm sure it works as documented
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20150126 21:01:40< DeFender1031> hi all. i'm currently running version 1.10.7 on debian linux, and i wanted to know if upgrading to 1.12 would break anything i already have, such as saved games, replays, which campaigns are marked as completed, etc.
20150126 21:01:58< zookeeper> yes, it will. or at least you should assume it will.
20150126 21:02:21< zookeeper> if you have unfinished campaigns, better to keep both in parallel and finish those with your 1.10
20150126 21:02:25< DeFender1031> poo.
20150126 21:02:31< DeFender1031> debian don't make that easy to do.
20150126 21:02:56< DeFender1031> meh, i likely won't really ever watch my replays or reuse my autosaves anyway.
20150126 21:03:11< DeFender1031> but you're saying it shouldn't screw with which campaigns are marked as complete?
20150126 21:03:36< zookeeper> i'm not sure how that stuff works
20150126 21:04:06< DeFender1031> here's another stupid question, were any of the campaigns changed significantly? Like in terms of the story, characters, dialogue, etc?
20150126 21:04:38< zookeeper> not significantly, no
20150126 21:04:55< zookeeper> i'd expect that if you can still use your 1.10 preferences with 1.12, then the finished campaigns list will work too
20150126 21:05:03< DeFender1031> hmm
20150126 21:05:26< DeFender1031> what about the music? was that changed at all?
20150126 21:06:26< zookeeper> scenario playlists might have changed in a few places, but no new tracks were added, i believe
20150126 21:07:47< DeFender1031> and i assume the existing tracks were not modified either?
20150126 21:08:02< zookeeper> correct
20150126 21:08:11< DeFender1031> (i have them on my work playlist because they're just that good.)
20150126 21:10:37< Molt> hmm... i keep getting [unstor_unit] not supported in wesnoth 1.12.0 when my unit is supposed to be unstored
20150126 21:11:03< zookeeper> well naturally it's not "unstor"...
20150126 21:12:42< Molt> lol
20150126 21:12:45< Molt> haha
20150126 21:12:46< Molt> oops
20150126 21:13:17< DeFender1031> zookeeper, another thing I noticed (i installed wesnoth on a friend's computer today to introduce him to it, which is how i noticed i'm behind) is that in the tutorial, delfador mentions that if a unit does nothing on a turn, it heals a little. I have never seen this behavior in 1.10. Is this a new game mechanic?
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20150126 21:14:13< zookeeper> DeFender1031, no, it's pretty old. might be easy to miss since you rarely keep a wounded unit completely still in a place where it doesn't get any other healing
20150126 21:17:39< DeFender1031> hmm... i thought i had times i had a wounded hero in the keep and not moving... certainly times when i had a narrow cave where only a few units could actually move in a turn... but i guess i must have just missed it. Come to think of it, I guess I just assumed they were healthy.
20150126 21:18:30< DeFender1031> is there a way to set up a hotkey for "mute music" (i see just plain "mute" in here, but there are times i want to mute just the music, such as when multitasking with watching a video)
20150126 21:20:29< zookeeper> i don't know, if there's no such thing in the hotkeys menu then i guess not
20150126 21:22:46< DeFender1031> thanks anyway.
20150126 21:22:55< DeFender1031> and i managed to get 1.12 installed in parallel to 1.10
20150126 21:23:22< DeFender1031> my saves still work in 1.10, 1.12 tells me there are no saves, but marks all my completed campaigns as complete.
20150126 21:23:26< DeFender1031> thanks for all the help
20150126 21:26:08< zookeeper> no problem
20150126 21:27:37< DeFender1031> is it my imagination or are the graphics in 1.12 significantly improved?
20150126 21:31:31< DeFender1031> here's another thing i've been wondering. What is the practical difference between the difficulty levels in the campaign modes?
20150126 21:31:57< DeFender1031> (sorry if i'm pestering with questions, I just really love this game and i'm excited to learn all i can about it)
20150126 21:32:27< zookeeper> there's a lot of graphical upgrades, i suppose
20150126 21:33:21< zookeeper> the difference between difficulty levels is usually the amount of gold you start with, the amount of gold the enemy leaders get, and which units they get to recruit
20150126 21:33:45< zookeeper> it can be anything the scenario designer decides, but it's usually those
20150126 21:35:54< DeFender1031> ah
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20150126 21:36:19< DeFender1031> i suppose also the strength of the "recall" units the enemy has
20150126 21:36:54< DeFender1031> it's just interesting because i notice that the campaigns themselves are labeled with a skill level in addition to them each having their own.
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20150126 21:39:50< DeFender1031> like "heir to the throne" is labeled as beginner while "northern rebirth" is labeled expert, but they each have their own levels besides.
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20150126 21:40:38< zookeeper> yes, a beginner-level campaign on the easiest difficulty should be a cakewalk most of the time, whereas an expert level campaign on the easiest difficulty would be a lot harder
20150126 21:41:49< zookeeper> expert-level campaigns on the hardest difficulty are [intended to be] really difficult even for experienced players
20150126 21:42:15< DeFender1031> ah
20150126 21:42:17< DeFender1031> interesting
20150126 21:42:41< DeFender1031> what about add-on campaigns? are any of those good?
20150126 21:43:01< zookeeper> i'm not much of an UMC expert, but yes there's some good ones
20150126 21:43:16< zookeeper> invasion from the unknown seems universally very well liked
20150126 21:44:15< lipkab> Not exactly. shadowm, for example, hates Invasion from the Unknown.
20150126 21:44:42< zookeeper> yeah, he's like that
20150126 21:45:24< DeFender1031> hmm
20150126 21:45:52< DeFender1031> has anyone hijacked the game engine to create a lord of the rings campaign?
20150126 21:46:23< Ravana_> you wouldn't need to change engine for that, you just couldnt share such
20150126 21:46:49< zookeeper> no, and we wouldn't allow stuff based on copyrighted IP such as LotR on the forums or add-on server anyway
20150126 21:47:55< DeFender1031> Ravana_, i didn't mean modify the engine, just used it to create a campaing in middle earth, rather than in wesnoth.
20150126 21:48:15< DeFender1031> and yeah, i suppose that copyright would be an issue for that...
20150126 21:48:31< DeFender1031> too bad. it would have been fun to have.
20150126 21:49:22< DeFender1031> ah, seems i'm not the first one to think of it: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31194&start=0
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20150126 21:51:42< zookeeper> it pops up regularly
20150126 21:53:54< DeFender1031> and here i thought i was sooooo clever :P
20150126 21:54:42< DeFender1031> anyway, i'm off to bed. i think i'm gonna lurk here.
20150126 21:54:56< DeFender1031> (unless there's some rule against that)
20150126 21:55:11< zookeeper> lurking's good
20150126 21:55:41< DeFender1031> oh, one more question before i go... at what point does something get added as an official part of the release as opposed to an add-on?
20150126 21:58:18< Molt> jeez... unstore_unit is dropping 5 units
20150126 21:58:21< Molt> instead of 1
20150126 21:58:25< Molt> argh
20150126 22:01:54< zookeeper> DeFender1031, whenever there's a developer willing to do the work (technical work and polishing etc etc) and it's not a particularly controversial addition, usually
20150126 22:02:14< zookeeper> ...and when there's someone who's ready to maintain it long-term
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20150126 22:02:49< zookeeper> we have so many campaigns already that the bar is pretty high, we can't just keep stuffing in everything that's "ok", since every added campaign comes with a maintenance cost
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 27 00:00:41 2015