--- Log opened Thu Feb 19 00:00:20 2015
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20150219 00:42:44< irker465> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:master 14aec6eb5b9d / po/wesnoth-help/de.po: Another German translation update http://git.io/AI10
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20150219 00:55:09< irker465> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:1.12 2ec833e025c7 / po/wesnoth-help/de.po: Another German translation update http://git.io/AIyH
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20150219 09:37:57< groggy> < vultraz> The map also needs tweaking to get rid of these atrocious one hex passages :(
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20150219 09:38:17< groggy> < vultraz> Irony here is that esr's own wesnoth scenario guide advises against them, yet he apparently loved this map style
20150219 09:39:31< groggy> vultraz: even though THoT involves dwarves, there is only one cave-crawler scenario
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20150219 09:40:38< groggy> esr's guide also has this line: "(The last scenario was farmed out to a guest designer who is famously good at the particular style of scenario I was after.) "
20150219 09:41:18< groggy> who if you check the credits is Taurus, i.e., the author of Northern Rebirth
20150219 09:43:14< groggy> i don't think that's enough to conclude that esr "loves" that kind of map
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20150219 10:00:07< vultraz> groggy: I have heard that the reason esr outsourced THoT S13 was because he loved Taurus's designs
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20150219 10:06:06< groggy> sure, but even NR doesn't have that many cave scenarios
20150219 10:07:49< vultraz> no, it doesn't
20150219 10:08:05< vultraz> but the alt branch does
20150219 10:11:58< groggy> also, about NR originally being lighter: have you seen http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36751&p=527913#p527913 ?
20150219 10:13:11< groggy> of course, you could probably download the version for 1.0 and read it for yourself
20150219 10:14:13< vultraz> I'm attempting to alleviate that
20150219 10:15:13< esr> vultraz: Please don't.  NR is *intended* to be an extreme campaign for people who like pushing around huge armies in complex scenarios.
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20150219 10:16:09< esr> The excess is the *point*. There isn't any other campaign like it, and shouldn't be, but there should be *one* like ut. 
20150219 10:16:11< groggy> yeah, those of us with a board wargame background got used to pushing around hundreds of counters
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20150219 10:16:37< vultraz> I'm not making it exactly like any other campaign 
20150219 10:16:51< vultraz> What I am is removing things like a chest full of 10,000 gold
20150219 10:16:51< esr> If you 'fix' it, you'll break what makes it interesting.
20150219 10:17:28< esr> Beware.  You are very likely to break the balance if you do that.
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20150219 10:18:55< groggy> to be honest though, you can win the next scenario without it, and then you lose the gold anyway
20150219 10:19:26< groggy> though i'm not in favor of these radical changes either
20150219 10:19:46< vultraz> esr: I am aware, especially with the map redraws as well
20150219 10:19:53< vultraz> I'll have to playtest it
20150219 10:19:54< vultraz> a lot
20150219 10:20:18< esr> Yes.  vultraz, you might want to think about why I wrote it that way and not change it until you understand why.
20150219 10:21:21< groggy> vultraz: you're obviously too young to have been around during the heyday of board wargaming
20150219 10:21:44< vultraz> Guilty as charged 
20150219 10:22:21< groggy> we would laugh at the idea that two hundred units is a "lot" of units
20150219 10:22:30< esr> Indeed.
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20150219 10:22:44 * esr has fond memories of War in the East
20150219 10:23:33< vultraz> I also intend to see about restoring the alt branch
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20150219 10:29:12< esr> I never did that because I couldn't plot an ending that satisfied me.
20150219 10:30:18< vultraz> If either of you are interested, this is what I have locally for the new s5a map: https://www.dropbox.com/s/utw77auohpcv5ap/NRS5a_newmap.png?dl=0
20150219 10:30:59< vultraz> esr: did you have any promising ideas?
20150219 10:31:41< esr> It's been a long time. too long for me to remember.  Sorry.
20150219 10:32:27< vultraz> Alright
20150219 10:32:55< esr> That map doesn't look bad.  I like how you extended the water region.
20150219 10:35:19< groggy> part of the map seems shrouded though
20150219 10:37:14< groggy> like the path from the dungeon to the escapees
20150219 10:37:49< groggy> or the right side corridor with the "toxic waste"
20150219 10:40:44< vultraz> groggy: what do you mean?
20150219 10:40:58< vultraz> oh, the side passages
20150219 10:41:01< vultraz> I shortened them
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20150219 10:41:47< vultraz> hey aquileia 
20150219 10:41:57< aquileia> hi, just saw the discussion
20150219 10:42:56< esr> vultraz: Yeah, and that's OK. The shortening, I mean. I don't mind tedium reduction, I'd just prefer not to see reduction of tactical complexity or scale.  
20150219 10:43:32< esr> So making big complex brawls happen faster = good.
20150219 10:43:35< aquileia> esr, groggy: Keep in mind the treasure still holds a few thousand (4500, I think?) - vultraz doesn't cut it to a standard campaign, but to a playable one
20150219 10:44:33< groggy> so you're combining the "toxic waste" and water corridors, and capturing the first castle will open up to the orphan chamber above it?
20150219 10:46:02< vultraz> yes
20150219 10:46:13< vultraz> that will have the holy water
20150219 10:46:43< groggy> aquileia: yes, but with few villages and high upkeep, that gold will go fast
20150219 10:48:30< aquileia> 100 L1 units a 20g can be sustained for 30 turns - that is, if you could recruit them all at once
20150219 10:48:39< groggy> vultraz: without a passage between the dungeon and the escapees, what is your backstory going to be for how they got there?
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20150219 10:49:42< vultraz> groggy: I can say they escaped from the spider chamber and hid in the side tunnel
20150219 10:49:53< groggy> currently, this scenario takes a lot longer than 30 turns
20150219 10:50:44< groggy> and why did Malifor put them there rather than the dungeon?
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20150219 10:51:29< vultraz> entertainment? he's a big evil lich
20150219 10:51:32< aquileia> I suppose they are no longer captives, but tried to attack and got cought in the trap, right?
20150219 10:51:54< vultraz> or maybe it was an execution 
20150219 10:51:55< aquileia> that's an option as well, but... being evil for the sake of it?
20150219 10:54:55< groggy> still not buying it. maybe you could move them down to behind the treasury corridor and reconnect their passage to the dungeon.
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20150219 10:59:57< aquileia> Oh, and BTW one of the issues I had with the 10000g treasure is the reaction to it - find a few 100 and OMG we're rich but 10000? Pounder on where he got it from.
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20150219 11:01:48< aquileia> anyhow, I'm off
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20150219 11:03:28< groggy> also, what if the player sights the "end" of the aquatic corridor, gets discouraged, and turns back before going all the way there? is there going to be something to draw him to that last hex so he can open it up? i don't see a village there
20150219 11:04:30< vultraz> yes
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20150219 13:22:21< fzsombor> hey
20150219 13:23:07< fzsombor> will the wesnoth participate in GSOC 2015?
20150219 13:27:27< vultraz> fzsombor: hopefully
20150219 13:27:34< vultraz> we left it to the last minute
20150219 13:28:15< vultraz> if noy can get our application in today
20150219 13:28:17< vultraz> maybe
20150219 13:29:55< fzsombor> i wanted to join in the last 2 years, but since im in the first year at univerity i can join only now
20150219 13:30:08< fzsombor> it would be soo cool :)
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20150219 14:08:51< fzsombor_> and if it participate, what project will be available?
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20150219 18:45:33< gfgtdf> vultraz: after http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=EventWML&diff=prev&oldid=56113 the page is now wrong: it has a quiet long list of "these events should be mp safe but are currently bugged"
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20150219 21:29:41< aquileia> shadowm: Irdya = planet or universe? I thought the latter, but I'm unsure
20150219 21:35:47< zookeeper> planet
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20150219 21:36:26< aquileia> well, good that I asked, I probably mixed that up with Skyrim
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20150219 22:20:34< aquileia> just to relay that over here, we're discussing on the German sub-channel whether melee marksman might be fixed in the English version rather than in all translations that relied on it being ranged
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20150219 22:32:35< Ravana_> maybe with variant like I guess female names work
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20150219 22:33:02< fabi> hi boucman
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20150219 22:34:59< boucman> hey
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20150219 22:39:20< fabi> hi noy
20150219 22:39:26< noy> alo
20150219 22:39:39< noy> want to be a mentor?
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20150219 22:49:00< fabi> noy: yes
20150219 22:49:10< noy> oh?
20150219 22:49:18< noy> this is the first time in like… how many years?
20150219 22:49:36< fabi> 2 years brake from being menthor
20150219 22:49:49< fabi> or 3?
20150219 22:50:20< fabi> I was registered the last time. But steped back early.
20150219 22:51:33< fabi> noy: AI0867 also mentioned he likes to be a mentor.
20150219 22:51:51< noy> he hasn’t contact me or reply to my message
20150219 22:52:45< fabi> This was ~30 hours ago.
20150219 22:53:52< fabi> noy: Are you aware about the problems with the android ports?
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20150219 23:01:42< noy> no
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20150219 23:06:16< fabi> noy: There is a 1.8 version applikation on the google play store. But the maintainer is inactive for some time. Then some one else ported 1.10 and now 1.12 for android. But the 1.10 version was removed from google because there is already a wesnoth and submitting an applikation twice is against there rules.
20150219 23:06:44< noy> lets talk about this in private
20150219 23:06:46< fabi> So the 1.12 never made it to the store. I guess it is in our interrest to get the newer version in the store. 
20150219 23:06:50< fabi> okay
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 20 00:00:22 2015