--- Log opened Sun Feb 08 00:00:11 2015
20150208 00:45:17-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 00:45:18< Tonepoet> If in the decimal system .999... is equivalent to 1, which seems to be the general consensus, is .999... in decimal equivalent to .F... in hexadecimal? If so, how would you account for the difference in values? Is an infinite sequence of 1/15th of 1/15th et cetera closer to 1 than 9/10ths of 9/10ths et cetera?
20150208 00:46:34-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Quit: Haldrik]
20150208 00:47:43< Tonepoet> Erm, correction: 9/10ths + 9/10ths of 9/10ths et cetera and the same for the 16ths respectively.
20150208 01:25:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 01:31:34-!- ancestral [~ancestral@65-128-208-249.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 01:32:27< Tonepoet> Taxes are vital in Wesnoth.
20150208 01:33:01< Tonepoet> The gold constitutes lifeforce for units to be born!
20150208 01:33:52< Tonepoet> Bloood money.
20150208 01:37:55-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20150208 01:41:37-!- ancestral [~ancestral@65-128-208-249.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20150208 01:45:51-!- ancestral [~ancestral@65-128-208-249.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 01:48:54< celticminstrel> Tonepoet: The proof that 0.999...=1 in decimal works equally well in hexadecimal - hex 0.fff... is also equal to 1.
20150208 01:49:27< celticminstrel> I don't think there's any reasonable way to claim one is closer though - after all, it's an infinite series.
20150208 01:49:49< celticminstrel> That said, if you cut it off at a certain number of decimal places, one might be closer than the other.
20150208 01:52:16< celticminstrel> For example, hex 0.fff = fff/1000 in hex, which is 4095/4096, which evaluates to approximately 0.9997558594 - certainly closer to 1 than 0.999 is.
20150208 01:52:26< celticminstrel> ^which is 4095/4096 in decimal
20150208 01:54:51< Tonepoet> Yeah, the higher counting base would be closer in any terminal sequence, at least assuming the same number of digits. The question is why does that cease to be with an irrational number and how do we differentiate one irrational number from another?
20150208 01:55:16< celticminstrel> An irrational number has a non-repeating decimal expansion.
20150208 01:55:53< celticminstrel> All rational numbers have a decimal expansion that eventually loops around and repeats.
20150208 01:56:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 01:56:32< celticminstrel> I'm not sure what you're saying ceases to be, though...
20150208 01:56:41< Tonepoet> We're talking about infinity here. So pi never repeats itself?
20150208 01:56:45< celticminstrel> Right.
20150208 01:57:02< celticminstrel> It's infinitely long, but never loops around and repeats.
20150208 01:57:05-!- Falcon` [falcon@hell.kolosowscy.pl] has quit [Quit: I'll be back!]
20150208 01:57:34< celticminstrel> There's no sequence of digits Z = 1415927....??? such that pi = 3.ZZZZZZZ...
20150208 01:58:40< celticminstrel> If you have two numbers that you know to be irrational and you want to test if they're different, it would be sufficient to find a single differing digit in the decimal expansion, though that's hardly an efficient method - that differing digit could as easily be at the five trillionth decimal place as at the fifth.
20150208 02:01:33< Tonepoet> What I'm saying is that f hex. > 9 dec. in all of its permutations with the same number of digits, due to being a higher counting base, except the infinite sequence.
20150208 02:01:57-!- Jetrel is now known as Kruglor
20150208 02:02:35< celticminstrel> So the exception you're talking about is that 0.ffff... = 0.9999...?
20150208 02:02:44< Tonepoet> Yeah.
20150208 02:02:47 * celticminstrel shrugs.
20150208 02:02:48-!- fenzil [~fenzil@unaffiliated/fenzil] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 02:02:52< celticminstrel> Inifinity is weird!
20150208 02:03:32< celticminstrel> The size of the set of integers is equal to the size of the set of rational numbers, despite the fact that integers are a proper subset of rationals.
20150208 02:03:54< celticminstrel> (But the size of the set of real numbers manages to be greater.)
20150208 02:05:45-!- Kruglor is now known as Jetrel
20150208 02:07:41< Tonepoet> I think I'll be stuck on this issue for some time to come. I suck at math. XP
20150208 02:08:45-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@141.70.98.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20150208 02:08:48-!- Falcon` [falcon@hell.kolosowscy.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 02:08:54< Tonepoet> I'm okay at Wesnoth though.
20150208 02:09:08< Tonepoet> Thank goodness for the battle damage calculator.
20150208 02:09:24< Tonepoet> (The in-game one.)
20150208 02:09:30< celticminstrel> Heh.
20150208 02:09:51< celticminstrel> It's nice how it accounts for pretty much every factor.
20150208 02:10:30< ancestral> celticminstrel: http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2015/02/a-little-thing-to-love-about-perl-6-and-cobol.html
20150208 02:10:36< ancestral> Tonepoet: ^
20150208 02:12:06< celticminstrel> Calculators use packed decimals, I think.
20150208 02:12:24< celticminstrel> ie binary coded decimal
20150208 02:12:59< celticminstrel> It's slightly less space-efficient than IEEE floating-point numbers, but doesn't have the disadvantage of weird rounding due to being stored in base 2.
20150208 02:13:05< ancestral> Maybe the HP ones do
20150208 02:13:28< celticminstrel> Well, HP, Casio, Sharp. I'm not certain that they all do, though.
20150208 02:14:51< Tonepoet> Unfortunately the only language I understand is english. I wish I could program computers in english. =P
20150208 02:15:14< celticminstrel> English isn't a context-free language, so making a computer parser for it is exceptionally difficult.
20150208 02:17:01< celticminstrel> English isn't even a context-sensitive language.
20150208 02:17:48< Tonepoet> It may've been easier in the 19th century when people cared more about being adherant to specific rules, at least if we had computers. XP
20150208 02:19:38< Tonepoet> Also if it is niether free of or sensitive to context, how would English be classified?
20150208 02:19:51< Tonepoet> *as a language
20150208 02:19:59< celticminstrel> The terminology is a bit weird.
20150208 02:20:18< celticminstrel> There's a hierarchy of languages based on how easy they are to parse.
20150208 02:20:23< Tonepoet> I blame scholars.
20150208 02:21:01< celticminstrel> Regular languages are the easiest, then context-free, context-sensitive, and finally unrestricted.
20150208 02:21:15< celticminstrel> I'm not actually sure whether English can even fit into that hiererchy,
20150208 02:21:25< celticminstrel> It might be even harder to parse than an unrestricted language.
20150208 02:21:54-!- trewe [~trewe@bl20-62-95.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: quit]
20150208 02:22:01< Tonepoet> English is heavily restricted with a lot of weird exceptions.
20150208 02:22:20< Tonepoet> It's a dictator's dream.
20150208 02:22:31< celticminstrel> Unrestricted languages are any language for which you can build a turing machine (or, equivalently, write a computer program) to recognize whether or not a segment of text is a valid sample of that language.
20150208 02:23:07< celticminstrel> Oh, they're also called "recursively enumerable" languages. That's probably a better term than "unrestricted".
20150208 02:23:35< Tonepoet> You count it backwards? =P
20150208 02:23:55< Tonepoet> Well, I should say list it backwards but still.
20150208 02:23:59< celticminstrel> Hm?
20150208 02:26:20< Tonepoet> http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resource=Webster%27s&word=enumerate&use1828=on Apparently Noah Webster didn't define the word 'recursive.' Hmm...
20150208 02:26:28< celticminstrel> English has the property that, given a sentence, you can't always determine the meaning or, possibly, even whether it's valid English - you need to see the sentence in context.
20150208 02:26:52< celticminstrel> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/recursive
20150208 02:27:45< Tonepoet> A complete sentence always has a subject, a predicate and a complete thought. It's just that english speakers are lazy people who like to convince themselves otherwise. XP
20150208 02:28:02< celticminstrel> Complete sentences are a subset of valid English.
20150208 02:28:17< celticminstrel> Incomplete sentences can be valid English as part of a narrative or conversation.
20150208 02:29:56< Tonepoet> I'd only consider complete sentences truly valid, despite the lack of pragmatism in the principal.
20150208 02:30:35< celticminstrel> That's not a very good approach, though.
20150208 02:30:47< celticminstrel> It's extremely common to sentence fragments in the course of a conversation.
20150208 02:31:03< celticminstrel> ^to see
20150208 02:31:32< celticminstrel> You can't reasonably argue that a huge proportion of conversations by native speakers are not valid English.
20150208 02:32:40< celticminstrel> In particular, fragments are often used to answer questions.
20150208 02:34:42< celticminstrel> That said, if you consider the subset of English that is complete sentences, it might end up being context-sensitive.
20150208 02:36:55< celticminstrel> Though you might have to settle for accepting nonsensical sentences (eg "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously") for that to work out.
20150208 02:36:56< Tonepoet> Perhaps it's an unreasonable position but it is nevertheless, my position on the manner. I do think English speakers confuse themselves all too often by fragmenting their sentences and conflating words with one another.
20150208 02:37:30< celticminstrel> Sure, but it's really the native speakers who ultimately decide what's valid English and what isn't.
20150208 02:37:31< ancestral> Even defining what is proper grammat can be nebulous.
20150208 02:37:35< ancestral> *grammar
20150208 02:39:47< Tonepoet> I also take a bit of a different position on that manner. Any use of a word can only ever truly be considered more correct than another, in reference to its past use. That's part of why I used an 1828 dictionary in particular, rather than searching O.E.D.
20150208 02:41:02 * celticminstrel thinks you want to say "matter" rather than "manner"...
20150208 02:41:24-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20150208 02:42:07< Tonepoet> Both can work in this context with slightly different meanings. A manner is a way of doing things.
20150208 02:42:18< Tonepoet> A matter would be a subject.
20150208 02:42:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 02:43:33-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20150208 02:44:43-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 02:46:39-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20150208 02:50:48< Tonepoet> Well, those particular words have many more meanings than just those several but that's the most concise explanation, I think.
20150208 03:02:23-!- fabi [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20150208 03:02:42-!- fabi [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 03:34:09< Tonepoet> It'll be a long time before a natural language is suitable for instructing a computer for just that reason. XD...
20150208 03:40:25-!- Molt [~elektron@c-73-1-200-215.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit []
20150208 03:41:55< celticminstrel> But see AppleScript and Inform7 for examples of people trying.
20150208 03:42:21-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d41283.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 03:42:52< Tonepoet> I vaguely recall applescript being a thing, although I never did use it. XD
20150208 03:43:36< Tonepoet> That's only because I had a mac though.
20150208 03:44:06< Tonepoet> Have you ever played Escape Velocity Nova?
20150208 03:44:14< celticminstrel> I have not.
20150208 03:45:19< Tonepoet> It's a fun game. I wish I remembered my reg. key. 
20150208 03:45:32-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d45612.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20150208 03:45:32< Tonepoet> Oh well.
20150208 03:46:22< ancestral> Tonepoet: Love EVO
20150208 03:46:33< ancestral> You can retrieve your missing key
20150208 03:46:38< ancestral> *EVN
20150208 03:47:11< ancestral> Tonepoet: https://www.ambrosiasw.com/support/lostcodes/
20150208 03:47:14< Tonepoet> The issue at hand is that my key is in somebody else's name because I didn't have electronic payment of my own at the time.
20150208 03:47:26< Tonepoet> I don't even know what the card number was. XD
20150208 03:47:37< ancestral> How about email?
20150208 03:48:51< Tonepoet> Nothin'. I might be able to get the old key if I put the H.D.D. of my broken drive in an enclosure but I think I'm S.O.L. otherwise and I don't mean Sattelite of Love. =P
20150208 03:49:13-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@frnk-5f74fe84.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 03:51:22< celticminstrel> I vaguely remember Maelstrom, I think...
20150208 03:51:29-!- prkc [~prkc@catv-89-134-173-244.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 03:51:39< Tonepoet> Maelstrom has an open source S.D.L. port now.
20150208 03:51:40< ancestral> I loved the Escape Velocity series
20150208 03:51:42< celticminstrel> Ah, yeah, I remember playing that.
20150208 03:51:47-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@frnk-5f74fe84.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host]
20150208 03:51:47-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 03:51:56< ancestral> Maelstrom is just yet another asteroids clone
20150208 03:52:34 * celticminstrel shrugs.
20150208 03:52:39-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20150208 03:52:40< celticminstrel> It's the one that I had on my old Mac.
20150208 03:53:17< Tonepoet> Yeah but it's a decent one. I had one that I favored more but I think the publisher stopped distributing keys.
20150208 03:53:20-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20150208 03:53:45< ancestral> I much preferred Asterax
20150208 03:53:49< celticminstrel> It looks like they actually still have it up for sale even though it's not OSX compatible.
20150208 03:53:50< Tonepoet> You had three ships and you mined the astroids for crystals you spent at a shop.
20150208 03:54:11< Tonepoet> It may've been Asterax.
20150208 03:54:28< ancestral> http://macintoshgarden.org/games/asterax
20150208 03:54:40< ancestral> Yes
20150208 03:54:41 * celticminstrel wishes PangaeaSoft would update Bugdom and Nanosaur.
20150208 03:56:01< Tonepoet> Yeah, it's Asterax. Maelstrom was still pretty solid though.
20150208 03:56:51< celticminstrel> Though I think both had Windows versions which might still work on Win7.
20150208 03:56:54< ancestral> I remember playing this game: http://youtu.be/4lVLy05qWgI
20150208 03:56:58< Tonepoet> It'd also be neat to play Spin Doctor. I know they came out with an iOS port but I can't really imagine playing it without a keyboard. XD
20150208 03:57:36< ancestral> Good old option key!
20150208 03:57:44< celticminstrel> Also, I wish Firefox wouldn't arbitrarily auto-disable Flash just because it's out-of-date.
20150208 03:58:07< ancestral> Super Maze Wars was pretty fun
20150208 03:58:22< ancestral> celticminstrel: That’s an OS thing too
20150208 03:58:30< celticminstrel> ?
20150208 03:58:34< ancestral> http://www.macrumors.com/2015/02/06/apple-forces-adobe-flash-player-update/
20150208 03:58:43< Tonepoet> Techies hate flash: They want to see it crash and burn.
20150208 03:59:00< ancestral> inorite
20150208 03:59:08< celticminstrel> I think it's unlikely it's an OS thing/
20150208 03:59:16< ancestral> Um
20150208 03:59:18< celticminstrel> Oh wait.
20150208 03:59:21< celticminstrel> "too"
20150208 03:59:27< celticminstrel> In my specific case I doubt it's an OS thing.
20150208 03:59:35< celticminstrel> Not denying that Apple has done that.
20150208 03:59:36< ancestral> Apple is purposefully disabling it for OS X users
20150208 03:59:43< ancestral> So they upgrade
20150208 03:59:48< ancestral> Save users from themselves
20150208 03:59:50< celticminstrel> Right, but I don't think that would have affected me.
20150208 03:59:59< Tonepoet> But what if you need an older version?
20150208 04:00:27< celticminstrel> Speaking of saving users from themselves, it is now literally impossible (as far as I can tell) to run an untrusted Java applet without explicitly whitelisting the site.
20150208 04:00:33< Tonepoet> I vaguely recall some content is programmed to check which version of flash you're running but it's so poorly coded that even a newer version won't work.
20150208 04:01:24< celticminstrel> Anyway, I'm still on 10.7, so I doubt it's an OSX thing in my specific case.
20150208 04:01:31< Tonepoet> I don't really think it's about saving users from themselves. That's just a cover story to further close the O.S.X. environment.
20150208 04:01:46< ancestral> I don’t get what you guys are talking about
20150208 04:02:09< ancestral> Apple has purposefully disabled flash plugins that are old in the past
20150208 04:02:09< celticminstrel> Actually, looking at the article you linked again, I get the impression that it's a Safari thing, not an OSX thing.
20150208 04:02:17< ancestral> I’m sure Microsoft does it too
20150208 04:02:49< ancestral> On the whole, it’s better not to have people running around with insecure plug-ins that could let people in to take advantage of their machine, however theoretical
20150208 04:02:50< celticminstrel> Whatever the reason, it's annoying.
20150208 04:02:55< ancestral> Not denying that
20150208 04:03:18< Tonepoet> Ancestral, sometimes  you just need to run a specific version of Flash or else the .swf won't let you run it. It was meant to make sure you had access to the newest features of flash available at the time but it wasn't a forward compatible check.
20150208 04:03:19< celticminstrel> Same with the Java thing.
20150208 04:03:21< ancestral> But it’s like playing with fire — it means you have to take extra precautions and service your fire extinguishers
20150208 04:03:30< ancestral> Yep, Java too
20150208 04:03:32-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d41283.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20150208 04:03:45< ancestral> You want interactive plug-ins? Time to play the update game
20150208 04:03:59< celticminstrel> Why should I whitelist a site that I might only visit once just so that I can run the Java applet?
20150208 04:05:01< ancestral> I don’t know the significance of insecure certificates and signing, but I know it’s present
20150208 04:05:05< Tonepoet> Because you're bored and desparate enough to play a very poorly coded and laggy game?
20150208 04:05:35< ancestral> Tonepoet: I can’t speak to the specific version of flash thing. Not sure if there are ways to do that offline. Don’t know.
20150208 04:06:00< celticminstrel> It's probably possible offline.
20150208 04:06:05< celticminstrel> If you download the swf.
20150208 04:06:06-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d41283.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 04:06:06< ancestral> Flash and Java are on the way out
20150208 04:06:17< ancestral> Silverlight is being discontinued
20150208 04:06:26< celticminstrel> Provided of course that they didn't include code to prevent it from running if downloaded.
20150208 04:06:46< ancestral> ActiveX died a horrible death
20150208 04:06:54< celticminstrel> I doubt Java is on the way out.
20150208 04:07:00< celticminstrel> Java Web Plugin, maybe.
20150208 04:07:00< ancestral> Java plugins are
20150208 04:07:15< ancestral> Java the language, Java Server Pages, are here for 100 years
20150208 04:07:19< Tonepoet> You know what needs to die?
20150208 04:07:21< Tonepoet> .gif
20150208 04:07:28< ancestral> Um
20150208 04:07:33< Tonepoet> Webms are slowly taking market share away but still..
20150208 04:07:34< ancestral> The culture behind it, or the format?
20150208 04:07:43< ancestral> APNG is a thing, just barely
20150208 04:07:44< Tonepoet> The format.
20150208 04:08:00< ancestral> New versions of Safari support APNG
20150208 04:08:04< Tonepoet> A.P.N.G. and M.N.G. both failed to garner adoption, didn't they?
20150208 04:08:05< celticminstrel> There's APNG and MNG, but neither really caught on.
20150208 04:08:24< celticminstrel> Actually, I think APNG is probably slightly more supported than MNG though.
20150208 04:08:46< ancestral> http://caniuse.com/#feat=apng
20150208 05:08:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 05:10:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 05:12:53-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@50-108-82-79.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 05:13:57-!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@106.186.127.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20150208 05:14:16-!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 05:15:52-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@50-108-82-79.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 05:28:59-!- Sulfur [~Miranda@p5B00961D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 05:40:34-!- fenzil [~fenzil@unaffiliated/fenzil] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20150208 06:04:08-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@50-108-82-79.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 06:09:17-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@50-108-82-79.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 06:09:17-!- DreadKnight [~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 06:23:25-!- MadMerlin2 [~neil@206-248-167-197.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 06:42:29-!- ancestral [~ancestral@65-128-208-249.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20150208 06:44:47-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
20150208 07:00:04-!- Catoptromancy [~Cato@unaffiliated/catoptromancy] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 07:00:29-!- ancestral [~ancestral@65-128-208-249.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 07:22:49-!- ancestral [~ancestral@65-128-208-249.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: End Transmission.]
20150208 07:55:58-!- Panda_ [~IMO@AMontsouris-653-1-179-221.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 08:11:28-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 08:21:23-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@93-172-172-81.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 08:33:47-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 08:35:18-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20150208 08:40:16-!- thunderstruck [~thunderst@cpc8-sgyl29-2-0-cust37.sgyl.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20150208 08:48:12-!- [Relic] [~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:ccb9:8425:293e:ee70] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20150208 09:14:49-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d41283.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 09:20:43-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d41283.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 09:42:24-!- JackBauer24 [~JackBauer@89-71-84-205.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 10:43:41-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 11:17:41-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 11:40:06-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 11:44:31-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 11:50:27-!- Batteh [~Batteh@c-67-170-165-157.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 11:50:55< Batteh> o/
20150208 11:51:02< Batteh> looking back at the game
20150208 11:51:21< Batteh> what eras and mods are most popular these days?
20150208 11:52:14-!- JackBauer24 [~JackBauer@89-71-84-205.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20150208 11:58:50-!- Sulfur [~Miranda@p5B00961D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20150208 12:05:23< zookeeper> Batteh, well, i guess the download counts on the add-on server would be a good indication
20150208 12:05:58< Batteh> hm?
20150208 12:06:07< Batteh> oh
20150208 12:06:29< Batteh> mental khalifate looks Duneish?
20150208 12:09:12< zookeeper> IIRC it's the khalifate with more high fantasy elements and stuff
20150208 12:09:25< Batteh> ah
20150208 12:10:05< Batteh> trying to remember the really good arena mods
20150208 12:10:09< Batteh> those were a lot of fun
20150208 12:10:42< zookeeper> colosseum, perhaps?
20150208 12:11:35-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 12:11:55< Batteh> I remember one that was basically you controlled a single character
20150208 12:11:58< Batteh> was kind of hilarious
20150208 12:26:52-!- Batteh [~Batteh@c-67-170-165-157.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Shutting down]
20150208 12:50:34-!- Panda_ [~IMO@AMontsouris-653-1-179-221.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20150208 13:05:33-!- Crendgrim_ [~crend@wesnoth/forum-moderator/crendgrim] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 13:06:07-!- Crendgrim [~crend@wesnoth/forum-moderator/crendgrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20150208 13:15:38-!- prkc [~prkc@catv-89-134-173-244.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 14:01:13-!- Sulfur [~Miranda@p5B00961D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 14:08:09-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 14:31:17-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-185-10-126-53.vodafone.hu] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 14:34:14-!- Crendgrim_ is now known as Crendgrim
20150208 14:38:41-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-185-10-126-53.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Sűrű sötét az éj, dühöng a déli szél]
20150208 14:47:55-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 14:58:41-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20150208 14:58:59-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20150208 15:06:02-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 15:34:44< Tonepoet> Three footpads, a gryphon and an Ulfserker costs 99g. Hmm...
20150208 16:07:18-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20150208 16:10:08< DeFender1031> Tonepoet, I was kind of expecting that to end "walk into a bar"...
20150208 16:13:01-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 16:14:33-!- DreadKnight [~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight] has quit [Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com )]
20150208 16:15:26-!- [Relic] [~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:28de:ad1e:59ff:6294] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 16:35:32-!- Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@p549F8106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 16:38:47-!- Ravana_ [SZ_Bot@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20150208 16:40:21-!- SZ_Bot [~SZ_Bot@27-83-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 16:40:27-!- SZ_Bot is now known as Ravana_
20150208 16:40:36-!- Ravana_ [~SZ_Bot@27-83-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Changing host]
20150208 16:40:36-!- Ravana_ [~SZ_Bot@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 17:21:34-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 17:31:55-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 17:34:28-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 18:10:57< Crendgrim> DeFender1031: Well, what else do you think are they doing with their upkeep?
20150208 18:11:41< DeFender1031> it's a good point. Actually, I'm pretty sure the dwarves in LoW explicitly say as much.
20150208 18:12:14< Crendgrim> Hah, do they actually? Nice.
20150208 18:15:00< DeFender1031> "It’s an ancient dwarvish custom to buy the warriors a few drinks before the battle... So minus expenses that’s about even."
20150208 18:21:39< DeFender1031> hmm... why is the "Engineer" a red mage?
20150208 18:28:35< zookeeper> because at the time there was nothing else more suitable he might have been, i'd imagine
20150208 18:29:39< zookeeper> not that i can think of anything amongst the current unit pool either
20150208 18:38:52< DeFender1031> could always have been a custom unit...
20150208 18:40:23-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 18:45:04-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 18:52:20-!- Panda_ [~IMO@AMontsouris-653-1-179-221.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 19:22:49-!- fenzil [~fenzil@unaffiliated/fenzil] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 19:44:36-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20150208 19:48:18-!- Haudegen [~quassel@85.124.51.57] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 20:21:07-!- Sulfur [~Miranda@p5B00961D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20150208 20:25:48-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@s77.BMT-e1.vectant.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 20:27:37-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@s77.BMT-e1.vectant.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 20:36:07< Gambit> If GambCiv was so good, why is there no GambiCiv 2? #checkmate
20150208 20:38:04< Gambit> vultraz or some other Lua person: can I add things to wesnoth.wml_actions in an add-on and use those custom tags elsewhere in said add-on?
20150208 20:38:19< Gambit> as long as that event with that [lua] has fired, of course
20150208 20:39:07< vultraz> Gambit: yes. have a lua file with wesnoth.wml_actions.tag_name(cfg) load via a [lua] tag in your _main.cfg before your scenarios, and you can use [custom_tag] as any other tag
20150208 20:39:37< vultraz> you do not need [event]-based [lua] tags
20150208 20:39:45< Gambit> neat
20150208 20:39:48< Gambit> Thanks
20150208 20:40:01< Gambit> Currently downloading build dependencies.
20150208 20:40:41< vultraz> It's common to have a global alias for wml_actions = wesnoth.wml_actions
20150208 20:41:28 * Gambit nods, looking at /data/lua/wml-tags.lua
20150208 20:42:38< Gambit> I'm going to try to get out of macro expansion hell this time around.
20150208 20:43:55< vultraz> Please do
20150208 20:45:14 * Gambit installs libboost-all-dev and doesn't even give a hoot
20150208 20:46:23< celticminstrel> Eh?
20150208 20:47:33< Gambit> vultraz: It's been like two years. Are you still a scrub or are you super awesome now?
20150208 20:47:44< Gambit> I figured you were super awesome now is why I asked a lua question earlier, and you totally answered it.
20150208 20:47:44< vultraz> Gambit: I'm relatively awesome
20150208 20:48:02< vultraz> I no longer think _main.cfg is a folder, if that's what you're asking
20150208 20:48:35< Gambit> Did you implement [+images] so zookeeper will stop picking on me?
20150208 20:48:52< vultraz> for what tag
20150208 20:48:57< zookeeper> what
20150208 20:49:14 * zookeeper flogs Gambit
20150208 20:49:15< vultraz> also, what zookeeper said
20150208 20:49:39< Gambit> It used to be a thing that everyone had in _main.cfg
20150208 20:49:47< Gambit> Even though it didn't actually do anything.
20150208 20:50:02< vultraz> Uh
20150208 20:50:09< vultraz> What
20150208 20:50:17< celticminstrel> ...
20150208 20:50:27 * celticminstrel confusion.
20150208 20:50:30< vultraz> You don't need any specifying of image folders, except with [binary_path]
20150208 20:50:31< zookeeper> vultraz, what, you never seen one of those?
20150208 20:50:36< vultraz> zookeeper: no
20150208 20:50:39< vultraz> never
20150208 20:50:39< zookeeper> wow
20150208 20:51:15< zookeeper> well kinda similar to how people do {add-ons/myaddon/images} all the time
20150208 20:51:26< vultraz> uhhhhh
20150208 20:51:28< vultraz> ....
20150208 20:51:29< vultraz> why
20150208 20:51:37< zookeeper> beats me
20150208 20:51:43< celticminstrel> Because macro inclusion is confusing.
20150208 20:51:51< vultraz> did no one teach them about [binary_path]
20150208 20:51:52< Gambit> Because they all incestuously copy off of one another and one person did it one time and it didn't break and their add-on got popular.
20150208 20:52:14< vultraz> In that case, no
20150208 20:52:22< vultraz> I would never implement such a thing
20150208 20:52:28< celticminstrel> No, seriously, it's confusing.
20150208 20:52:30< vultraz> I thought you meant for [message] or something
20150208 20:52:38< vultraz> celticminstrel: not really?
20150208 20:52:51< celticminstrel> Why do you even need [binary_path]?
20150208 20:53:23< vultraz> Because of how the game is set up
20150208 20:53:30< vultraz> I have no idea
20150208 20:53:46< celticminstrel> Why can't it be automatic?
20150208 20:54:01< celticminstrel> Why do file inclusions use the same syntax as macro expansions?
20150208 20:54:17< vultraz> because you're expanding a file
20150208 20:54:18< celticminstrel> I expect a lot of people get confused by the ~ stuff, too.
20150208 20:54:38 * celticminstrel doesn't even remember how it works - I just look it up whenever I need it.
20150208 20:55:09< zookeeper> yeah the syntax could be a bit more clear
20150208 20:55:11< celticminstrel> "Expanding" a file is kinda different from expanding a macro, though.
20150208 20:56:09< vultraz> *shrug*
20150208 20:56:14< vultraz> Don't look at me
20150208 20:56:27< vultraz> I only use ~ for ~add-ons anyway
20150208 20:56:30< Gambit> Hmm scons seems to believe that I don't have libboost-local-all-dev
20150208 20:56:39< Gambit> er
20150208 20:56:42< Gambit> minus that -all lol
20150208 20:57:02< celticminstrel> You said you installed libboost-all-dev, not libboost-local-dev.
20150208 20:57:09< Gambit> *locale
20150208 20:57:10< celticminstrel> Unless the former includes the latter.
20150208 20:57:13< Gambit> Which is included in all
20150208 20:57:21< celticminstrel> Oh, locale, that makes more sense.
20150208 20:57:31< celticminstrel> What're you building?
20150208 20:57:36< Gambit> Wesnoth
20150208 20:57:38< vultraz> wesnoth
20150208 20:57:44< celticminstrel> So Wesnoth doesn't actually use gettext directly.
20150208 20:58:57< Gambit> Ah silly caching.
20150208 21:00:42< vultraz> Gambit: ping me if you need more lua help later
20150208 21:05:06-!- prkc [~prkc@catv-89-134-173-244.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20150208 21:30:55-!- prkc [~prkc@catv-89-134-173-244.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 21:32:47-!- Ravana_ [~SZ_Bot@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20150208 21:33:03-!- SZ_Bot [SZ_Bot@27-83-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 21:33:03-!- SZ_Bot is now known as Ravana_
20150208 21:33:03-!- Ravana_ [SZ_Bot@27-83-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Changing host]
20150208 21:33:03-!- Ravana_ [SZ_Bot@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 21:36:23-!- SZ_Bot [SZ_Bot@27-83-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 21:36:23-!- Ravana_ [SZ_Bot@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Disconnected by services]
20150208 21:36:36-!- SZ_Bot is now known as Ravana_
20150208 21:36:36-!- Ravana_ [SZ_Bot@27-83-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Changing host]
20150208 21:36:36-!- Ravana_ [SZ_Bot@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 21:39:46-!- kittycity [18ab6815@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.171.104.21] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 21:39:53< kittycity> Guys I need help! 
20150208 21:40:01< kittycity> Im a new player and im getting rekt by undead and im orcs
20150208 21:40:06< kittycity> what best combats axe skeletones 
20150208 21:41:39< kittycity> anyone? @falcon
20150208 21:55:05< Catoptromancy> use unit description
20150208 21:57:49< zookeeper> orcish archers and trolls, i'd say
20150208 22:03:24< zookeeper> obviously, you need to make sure they don't get to chop your archers in melee
20150208 22:06:07-!- Panda_ [~IMO@AMontsouris-653-1-179-221.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20150208 22:19:34-!- kittycity [18ab6815@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.171.104.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20150208 22:57:07-!- TC01 [~quassel@magellan.acm.jhu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20150208 23:02:52-!- fenzil [~fenzil@unaffiliated/fenzil] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20150208 23:13:20-!- Catoptromancy [~Cato@unaffiliated/catoptromancy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20150208 23:30:48-!- Molt [~elektron@c-73-1-200-215.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth
20150208 23:48:24< Gambit> I technically already lost my lua virginity, but this is the first time I'm choosing lua when it isn't a necessity. Feels wrong. https://github.com/grickit/GambCivHD/blob/master/lua/action_tags.lua
20150208 23:48:30< Gambit> Also lua is just as butt ugly as I remember
20150208 23:49:40< Gambit> Guys. Guys. I know. We won't have any variable interpolation. Instead we'll make them call string.format EVERYWHERE. It's brilliant guys. Trust me. Everyone will love our programming language.
20150208 23:58:02-!- fenzil [~fenzil@unaffiliated/fenzil] has joined #wesnoth
--- Log closed Mon Feb 09 00:00:00 2015