--- Log opened Thu May 28 00:00:11 2015
20150528 00:00:23< iceiceice> apparently sourceforge has been doing this for a while
20150528 00:00:24< iceiceice> http://blog.gluster.org/2013/08/how-far-the-once-mighty-sourceforge-has-fallen/
20150528 00:01:00< shadowm> Yeah, that's the purportedly opt-in program.
20150528 00:01:03< c74d> Looking at some of their featured projects, <https://github.com/atom/atom>, <https://github.com/adobe/brackets>, <https://github.com/textmate/textmate>, and <https://github.com/neovim/neovim> use the releases system.
20150528 00:01:32< c74d> (That's just looking at the featured text editors.)
20150528 00:02:30< shadowm> Piggybacking on an existing abandoned-on-SF.net-only project without asking anyone, however, is crossing the line.
20150528 00:04:11< iceiceice> does anyone know any plausible alternatives besides github and bit torrent?
20150528 00:04:16< shadowm> Downloading a file from GH Releases incurs in a 302 to codeload.github.com.
20150528 00:04:32< shadowm> Which has a single address.
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20150528 00:06:29< shadowm> That's not very encouraging bandwidth-wise. On the other hand, one might argue that Wesnoth is not as popular as it was back in 2005-2007, so perhaps the bandwidth-concerns are not as justified nowadays.
20150528 00:06:37< shadowm> s/-c/ c/
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20150528 00:08:24< shadowm> https://github.com/atom/atom/releases -- these 302 to the Amazon cloud servers.
20150528 00:08:41< c74d> oh
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20150528 00:09:45< c74d> There's definitely an option to upload release packages. Maybe GitHub just stores uploaded release packages on Amazon cloud storage?
20150528 00:10:23< shadowm> But https://github.com/textmate/textmate uses codeload.github.com like I said above.
20150528 00:10:50< shadowm> So, it doesn't look like I can upload files via SSH.
20150528 00:11:26< shadowm> That's unfortunately a no-no as long as I am the release manager, because I currently use rsync from wesnoth.org.
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20150528 00:12:15< shadowm> If I didn't, it'd take me a day or more to upload the source tarball, with my connection breaking every once in a while.
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20150528 00:13:05< shadowm> My top upload speed is 1 Mbps, which is about 0.12 MiB/sec.
20150528 00:14:20< shadowm> Sure, we could just leverage tags so I didn't have to upload anything at all and leave that to the Windows and OS X packagers (who I don't know would be fine with using http uploads instead of rsync). However, our source tarballs are not 1:1 archives of a tag's tree.
20150528 00:14:53< shadowm>     ( cd "$REPOSITORY" && git archive --format=tar --prefix="wesnoth-$VERSION/" "$REL_CLEAN_BRANCH" ) > "$UNC"
20150528 00:15:07< shadowm> This uses the .gitattributes information to exclude some files.
20150528 00:16:50< c74d> I've reviewed the Google Drive terms of service, and I see nothing about bandwidth limits. The only thing they charge for is storage space, which is 15 GB for free, then 100 GB for 1.99 USD/month, then 1 TB for 9.99 USD/month, then (10n) TB for (100n–0.01) USD/month.
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20150528 00:18:19< c74d> I've checked whether GitHub allows for release package uploads to be authenticated via a personal access token, which could enable HTTPS uploads from Baldras without you storing your GitHub password there, but it seems not.
20150528 00:20:34< shadowm> Where do I get the FRS stats argh.
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20150528 00:23:09< shadowm> I don't know where/if our total FRS usage is, but...
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20150528 00:23:52< shadowm> Let's put it like this. The 1.12.2 folder with all official binaries and the source tarball is 1.5 GiB in total.
20150528 00:24:40< shadowm> We have 261 tags. At least 80% of them are actual releases on SF.net.
20150528 00:25:17< shadowm> !math 261*0.8*1.5
20150528 00:25:17< shikadibot> shadowm: 313.20
20150528 00:25:48< shadowm> That'd be 313.2 GiB if we assumed all releases to be 1.5 GiB in size (they are not, but it's a convenient estimate).
20150528 00:27:32< c74d> If this is re Google Drive's storage space limits, I would recommend keeping only recent releases there, and serving older, presumably no-longer-in-demand releases from GitHub or wesnoth.org.
20150528 00:28:04< c74d> (Google Drive is also not SSH-accessible, though.)
20150528 00:29:49< c74d> (However, unlike GitHub, last I checked at least, Google wouldn't mind you operating a shared “The Battle for Wesnoth” account, so keeping the account credentials on Baldras might not be a problem.)
20150528 00:30:32< shadowm> I'd rather not give more than one person the account credentials.
20150528 00:31:17< shadowm> We've had two cases of violation of trust within the project before, and releases comprise a precious part of the project.
20150528 00:32:29< c74d> Baldras is untrusted, then?
20150528 00:33:21< shadowm> The packagers (and a couple of additional Windows-based devs IIRC) need to be able to upload on their own.
20150528 00:35:13< c74d> They could upload to their own accounts.
20150528 00:36:09< shadowm> That's overcomplicating things. :|
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20150528 00:36:43< shadowm> Packagers aren't permanent, which is best exemplified by ancestral replacing mattsc as the OS X packager for 1.13.0.
20150528 00:38:05< c74d> How bad would it be if packagers upload to Baldras, then the release manager uploads their packages to the distribution service?
20150528 00:38:49< shadowm> That effectively triplicates baldras' traffic per release, and that's in the best case.
20150528 00:43:22< c74d> shadowm: If you're willing to say (here or elsewhere), what is the threat model re packagers not being trusted?
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20150528 00:50:08< c74d> Packagers aren't trusted to not tamper with release files, yet they “need” write access to a single canonical repository of release files?
20150528 00:51:06< shadowm> I'm more worried about someone deleting the whole thing/account.
20150528 00:54:09< c74d> If having packagers upload to their own accounts would be a problem because they may become defunct: files can be easily copied from one Google Drive account to another, e.g. from the packagers account to the The Battle for Wesnoth account, without using Baldras's or your bandwidth.
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20150528 03:08:03< shadowm> rofl https://sourceforge.net/mirror/
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20150528 03:09:04< shadowm> The first three paragraphs are a very roundabout way to say "duh its because we want all the ad revenue all of it".
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20150528 06:21:54< vultraz> can someone clean out the junkyard 
20150528 06:21:57< vultraz> le spam is piling up
20150528 06:23:09< shadowm> "Le" spam doesn't seem to be that much to me.
20150528 06:24:08< shadowm> It's not like you can run out of space in there.
20150528 06:32:46< vultraz> Ty
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20150528 06:56:28< aquileia> shadowm: btw, the GitHub.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/archive/*.zip (where * ia a branch or tag name) use git-archive
20150528 06:57:23< aquileia> s/)/) links
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20150528 07:09:48< aquileia> They have uncompressed tarballs as well, but that's less handy IMO
20150528 07:09:48< shadowm> Anyone here who groks MW transclusions?
20150528 07:09:50< shadowm> Never mind, it seems to have fixed itself.
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20150528 09:10:56< Elvish_Hunter> Speaking of SF...
20150528 09:11:22< Elvish_Hunter> Perhaps we should think about moving the Wesnoth-UMC-Dev project elsewhere
20150528 09:11:38< shadowm> Who is 'we'?
20150528 09:12:36< Elvish_Hunter> Us developers. I know that we're understaffed, that's why I said "think about moving" instead of just "moving" ;-)
20150528 09:13:17< shadowm> Wesnoth-UMC-Dev has always been an independent effort. The Battle for Wesnoth Project has no control over it.
20150528 09:13:43< shadowm> Last time I checked, AI0867 was the admin.
20150528 09:13:45< Elvish_Hunter> These days, every time that I make a commit there, the repository browser at http://sourceforge.net/p/wesnoth-umc-dev/code/ goes down for several hours...
20150528 09:14:45< Elvish_Hunter> So I should send this question to AI, right?
20150528 09:15:08< shadowm> Yes.
20150528 09:15:28< shadowm> Also consider leaving Wesnoth-UMC-Dev in favor of controlling your own repositories on GitHub.
20150528 09:15:45< shadowm> It's a highly liberating alternative if you'd ask me.
20150528 09:16:20< shadowm> Other repository hosting providers are available, of course.
20150528 09:18:09< Elvish_Hunter> Oh, I know. I already though of it ;-) But since my only project on UMC-Dev is the Wesnoth Lua Pack (which I share with Anonymissimus), until he agrees to move it elsewhere I can't do that much
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20150528 11:11:29< zookeeper> shadowm, what survey?
20150528 11:11:49< zookeeper> i didn't get it
20150528 11:12:09< zookeeper> maybe i'm not part of the group proper so i didn't
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20150528 12:03:44< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 4579dd7c7622 / data/core/ (7 files in 2 dirs): New standing animation for the Orcish Archer by Kwandulin http://git.io/vkZH9
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20150528 12:09:54< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master dc8b4630eb04 / data/core/units/undead/Skele_Bone_Shooter.cfg: Tweaked timing of Bone Shooter standing animation http://git.io/vkZ7q
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20150528 12:45:47< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master a90b636ec8a3 / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/03_Guarded_Castle.cfg: TB S3: cleaned up code http://git.io/vkneK
20150528 12:45:50< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 922a8ef29db1 / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/maps/ (01_Rooting_Out_a_Mage.map 02_The_Chase.map 04_Return_to_the_Village.map): TB: saved remaining maps in new format http://git.io/vknei
20150528 12:45:53< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master ad218e005200 / data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Tweak terrain graphics for the Brazier (^Eg) http://git.io/vkneP
20150528 12:45:56< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master e80ce0eb684c / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/ (maps/03_Guarded_Castle.map scenarios/03_Guarded_Castle.cfg): Tb S3: used Brazier embellishments instead of [item]s http://git.io/vkneX
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20150528 13:34:11< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6509 (master - dc8b463 : Charles Dang): The build was broken.
20150528 13:34:11< travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/64405267
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20150528 14:39:12< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 5a7879c85582 / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/04_Return_to_the_Village.cfg: TB S4: cleaned up code http://git.io/vkn9A
20150528 14:39:15< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 6fa63373dbaf / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/03_Guarded_Castle.cfg: TB S3: small fixup to a90b636ec8a3 http://git.io/vkn9x
20150528 14:39:18< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master be0d97943268 / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/05_Epilogue.cfg: TB S5: cleaned up code http://git.io/vkn9p
20150528 14:39:21< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master cf222adc7c84 / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/ (6 files in 2 dirs): TB: used a character stats macro for Arvith http://git.io/vkn9h
20150528 14:40:42< vultraz> Alright, TB done
20150528 14:40:47< vultraz> Guess I have to get back to NR :/
20150528 14:42:27< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 76a72bfa8b3c / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/_main.cfg: TB: add myself to credits http://git.io/vknQ9
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20150528 16:13:56< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 49830adb946b / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/ (4 files): TB: add facings http://git.io/vkcax
20150528 16:13:59< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 90a9a95df2c6 / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/maps/03_Guarded_Castle.map: TB S3: add some lit stone walls http://git.io/vkcap
20150528 16:14:02< irker175> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master f83553e83f19 / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/scenarios/02_The_Chase.cfg: TB S2: moved horse recall sequence to prestart http://git.io/vkcah
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20150528 20:32:18< mattsc> gfgtdf: I am encountering another bug (or feature) that causes OOS errors in replays for me.  (I was not aware of it, but maybe it is known also.)
20150528 20:33:17< mattsc> Apparently, goto_x/y cannot be read in replays.  If I add debug output to moveto events, I get this (1st line is when playing; 2nd is in replay):
20150528 20:33:31< mattsc> debug wml: moveto: Trapper-679 24,16 -> 26,12   goto:  28,9
20150528 20:33:31< mattsc> debug wml: moveto: Trapper-722 24,16 -> 26,12   goto:  -999,-999
20150528 20:34:25< mattsc> When I save the game after this move and look at the unit with :inspect, the values are set correctly to 28,9, so it’s only reading them that is the problem.
20150528 20:35:05< mattsc> In the scenario, I use the value of goto_x/y to have an event decide whether to take the unit off the map, which is what later causes the OOS errors.
20150528 20:36:01< mattsc> The work-around is easy, of course (I can store the information in the unit’s variables field also), but I thought I should mention it anyway.
20150528 20:36:22< mattsc> This is with 1.12.2+dev.
20150528 20:38:44< mattsc> To clarify: “When I save the game after this move” is meant as: saving it while replaying (not during normal playing; for which it applies also, of course).
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20150528 20:50:05< gfgtdf> mattsc: hm i don't think its a bug that goto_x/y is not synced, but we sure should add a note about that somewhere.
20150528 20:50:33< gfgtdf> mattsc: if you want to make your actions depend un such unsnced data you can use wesnoth.synchnonize_choice
20150528 20:51:05< mattsc> gfgtdf: I am setting the values of goto_x/y in a WML event (no Lua involved at all).
20150528 20:51:25< mattsc> And when I read them back after playing the replay and saving the game, they have the desired value
20150528 20:51:39< gfgtdf> mattsc: hm yes
20150528 20:51:41< mattsc> So they are synced.  They just aren’t read while in the replay.
20150528 20:52:00< gfgtdf> mattsc: but the player can overwrite those values by moving the unit i think
20150528 20:52:06< mattsc> Well, that’s my interpretation of what’s going on at least.
20150528 20:52:11< mattsc> No
20150528 20:52:27< mattsc> When the unit gets to its goal location, I kill it (using [kill])
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20150528 20:52:36< mattsc> there’s no player interaction involved at all, it’s all events
20150528 20:52:50< mattsc> these are units on the AI side
20150528 20:53:36< mattsc> and the values of goto_x/y are set as random numbers when the unit is created (also in events)
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20150528 20:57:14< gfgtdf> mattsc: i actualy dont know what goto_y/goto_y does on ai side but on human side it is used to store multi-turn moves. so if a player order a multi turn move the desination gets written to goto_x/y and those 'orders' are not stored in replays. So i am sure that goto_y/y is unsynced for human cntrolled units.
20150528 20:57:23< gfgtdf> mattsc: how exactly do you read them ?
20150528 20:58:33< mattsc> gfgtdf: {DEBUG $unit.goto_x}  in a moveto event
20150528 20:59:06< gfgtdf> mattsc: and you said that if you saved the game during teh replay you get teh correct values in the savefile ?
20150528 20:59:14< mattsc> yes
20150528 20:59:52< mattsc> gfgtdf: for an AI side, the values are read by the Goto Candidate Action and used to move the unit toward that goal.
20150528 21:00:18< gfgtdf> mattsc: hm tahts strange usualy both [store_unit] and writing the unit to savefiles use teh same unit::to_config function
20150528 21:00:49< mattsc> gfgtdf: maybe there is something else going on then, I have no idea; I’m just reporting my observations
20150528 21:01:12< gfgtdf> mattsc: can you upload teh strnge replay ?
20150528 21:02:00< mattsc> gfgtdf: sure, but this is with a development version of Grnk, so it probably won’t run.
20150528 21:02:14< mattsc> I can try to set up a test case later though.
20150528 21:02:29< gfgtdf> mattsc: ok a test case would be useful.
20150528 21:06:07< gfgtdf> mattsc: i still think it is good practice to use sync_choice to acces goto_x/y in a synced event, even i i currently cannot see how it coudl fail with ai controlled units.
20150528 21:07:08< mattsc> gfgtdf: Well, I am going to do it completely differently instead.  (This is 5-year old code that I am currently cleaning up a bit for things like that.)
20150528 21:08:16< gfgtdf> mattsc: if you dont want to use lua you can use [sync_variable] tag from 1.13.0: [sync_variable]  name= "unit.goto_x,unit.goto_y" [/sync_variable] at the start of you event could fix the OOS.
20150528 21:08:22< gfgtdf> mattsc: ok
20150528 21:08:47< gfgtdf> mattsc: (just had to finish that sentence)
20150528 21:09:11< mattsc> gfgtdf: now worries  :)
20150528 21:09:22< gfgtdf> mattsc: code form your addon or mainline ?
20150528 21:09:42< mattsc> from my campaign (Grnk)
20150528 21:09:46< mattsc> gfgtdf: http://pastebin.com/HwzadqQY
20150528 21:10:14< mattsc> put that into S1 of HttT, just end the turn without doing anything, save replay, play replay
20150528 21:10:18< mattsc> you’ll see the difference
20150528 21:10:54< mattsc> Well, you’ll need to set --log-debug=wml, but I assume you know that
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20150528 21:13:46< gfgtdf> mattsc: or i use ERROR instead of DEBUG
20150528 21:13:53< mattsc> sure
20150528 21:21:07< gfgtdf> mattsc: i coudl reporoduce
20150528 21:23:06< gfgtdf> mattsc: ok it seems liek here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/d4b52e10225a68dd984f87d81d3d7478f911b309/src/actions/move.cpp#L395 goto is reset and then it is set to the original value after teh move
20150528 21:23:11< gfgtdf> mattsc: i dont know why
20150528 21:24:08< mattsc> gfgtdf: huh?  and this only happens in the replay?
20150528 21:25:00< mattsc> looks like iceiceice did that almost exactly a year ago
20150528 21:25:10< gfgtdf> mattsc: no it is older
20150528 21:25:41< mattsc> ah, yes, just saw that
20150528 21:26:02< gfgtdf> mattsc: no it happenes when teh move was not ordered by an ai ('read from replay' is not ordered by an ai)
20150528 21:27:24< mattsc> gfgtdf: oh, I see.  Hmm.  I do know that ai_turn is not replay safe and that this is something that used to be used in combination with goto_x/y in the olden days.
20150528 21:27:38< mattsc> My guess is that this is some leftover of that somehow.
20150528 21:28:29< mattsc> gfgtdf: As I said, I’ll change my WML anyway, so it doesn’t matter for that purpose whether this gets fixed or declared a feature or whatever.  So don’t spend too much time on it.
20150528 21:30:21< gfgtdf> mattsc: i wonder whethe ri shoudl just add it to this post: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=35677#p516273 or try to find a playce in teh wiki
20150528 21:31:52< mattsc> gfgtdf: yes, I think that’s a good idea
20150528 21:31:54< gfgtdf> mattsc: you have an oponion about: http://gna.org/bugs/?23600 whether we should always disallow undoing moves before the last shroud update?
20150528 21:34:01< mattsc> gfgtdf: hmm
20150528 21:35:26< mattsc> gfgtdf: I don’t use it often either, so don’t have a strong opinion on it.  I think what you suggest is fine by me, but I might not be the best judge.
20150528 21:42:45< mattsc> gfgtdf: I have to leave; I’ll check the logs in a few hours to see if you need any other input from me for something.
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20150528 21:50:27< shadowm> zookeeper: Yeah, you weren't in the group as I found out a bit too late.
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--- Log closed Fri May 29 00:00:27 2015