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20150607 06:11:35< shadowm> shikadibot: seen loonycyborg 
20150607 06:11:35< shikadibot> shadowm: Queried user last spoke 9d 5h ago.  loonycyborg is currently here and on the channels ##shadowm and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
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20150607 10:37:47< loonycyborg> shadowm: you asked me something that I missed?
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20150607 10:49:49< gfgtdf> lipkab: you have on opinion on how to handle the bugs caused by the spmp patch? (RiftWalkers gsoc). You think it's better to restore the old sp patch or to fix those bugs?
20150607 11:08:18< lipkab> gfgtdf: Not yet, I'm still investigating the situation.
20150607 11:13:36< gfgtdf> lipkab: do you think there will be sp campaigns that allow you to play them with different eras?
20150607 11:15:41< zookeeper> unless you're talking about some technicalities, sp campaigns have nothing to do with eras
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20150607 11:18:07< gfgtdf> zookeeper: one of the main changes of the spmp patch is that in sp you now can select eras and [modification]s for sp campaigns. While i think the [modification] prt is useful im not convinced about the [era] part. So my questions was about whther there are usecases for teh [era9 part
20150607 11:19:06< zookeeper> i don't really see any usecase for that. eras are intrinsically a MP-only concept, so if you want to play a campaign with a different era, then you should play it in MP mode even if you play it alone
20150607 11:19:36< zookeeper> mixing up eras into SP would be awfully confusing
20150607 11:20:34< zookeeper> already now newbies don't always understand what eras are and whether they have anything to do with SP
20150607 11:20:58< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hm ok
20150607 11:21:17< gfgtdf> lipkab: you know about http://gna.org/bugs/?23410 and http://gna.org/bugs/?22974 ?
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20150607 12:08:32< hay207> hi guys, how to modify the description of an addon that i created?
20150607 12:08:49< hay207> i want to modify from 4p to 3p
20150607 12:10:45< lipkab> hay207: Well, open a text editor and rewrite the description.
20150607 12:11:40< hay207> where is description present, can;t find it
20150607 12:12:00< lipkab> What kind of add-on is it?
20150607 12:12:12< hay207> ANL 3players
20150607 12:12:23< lipkab> gfgtdf: No, I don't think mixing eras and sp campaigns make any sense.
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20150607 12:13:52< gfgtdf> lipkab: an oponion on http://gna.org/bugs/?23410 and http://gna.org/bugs/?22974 ?
20150607 12:14:16< lipkab> hay207: Find the [multiplayer] tag.
20150607 12:14:28< lipkab> It's probably in _main.cfg
20150607 12:16:50< hay207> it isn't uploaded yet
20150607 12:16:59< hay207> can i edit the description?
20150607 12:18:44< lipkab> gfgtdf: The first one is irrelevant to the mp/sp discussion, it's about user interface.
20150607 12:20:27< lipkab> gfgtdf: The second one highlights that modifications could be useful in sp.
20150607 12:21:01< lipkab> That doesn't mean, however, that merging mp and sp codepaths is a necessarily good idea.
20150607 12:21:16< lipkab> We could very well have sp modifications without that.
20150607 12:22:34< gfgtdf> lipkab: I mean the hidden modification part not the spmp part. Since afaik you wrote teh first [modification] code fpr mp, i you may know whther its hard or not to implement it
20150607 12:24:08< lipkab> hay207: I'm not sure I can follow you. So you have a multiplayer scenario and want to edit its description. You need to find the [multiplayer] tag within its source files and edit the description key.
20150607 12:24:45< hay207> ok np
20150607 12:24:55< hay207> i am still learning the code
20150607 12:24:58< hay207> thanks
20150607 12:25:17< lipkab> When you upload the scenario to the server, you'll also need to provide an add-on description. That will be located in your _server.pbl file.
20150607 12:25:33< gfgtdf> lipkab: also teh second report is about sp campaigns aswell as mp campaigns
20150607 12:26:56< lipkab> gfgtdf: Implementing hidden modifications shouldn't be particularly hard. You just don't display it on the creation screen and that's it.
20150607 12:27:29< lipkab> Otherwise, I guess, they'd work like ordinary modifications.
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20150607 12:34:17< hay207> ok
20150607 12:35:28< hay207> Another question
20150607 12:35:52< hay207> can i create 2 maps for a single cfg?
20150607 12:36:15< hay207> or i need a .cfg for every  map
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20150607 12:37:41< lipkab> You can create a cfg that decides which map to load in runtime but I'm not familiar with the relevant WML trickery.
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20150607 13:02:18< Ravana_> you can switch map during game if you want
20150607 13:03:13< hay207> i created 2 .cfg  for each map
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20150607 16:16:14< hay207> idk why someone would make fun of developing a little modification to game
20150607 16:17:08< hay207> that person said : another kiddy script with no concept
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20150607 17:33:56< hay207> hi guys, where 's recruitment_pattern wml tag?
20150607 17:34:12< hay207> can't find it in reference wml
20150607 17:37:21< zookeeper> should be in SideWML but it's not for some reason
20150607 17:39:24< zookeeper> oh, here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AiWML#The_.5Bai.5D_Tag:_Defining_Aspects
20150607 17:42:28< hay207> ok thanks
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20150607 18:43:50< hay207> i created a 3player ANL  survival
20150607 18:43:56< hay207> :)
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20150607 18:45:02< hay207> orocia-style
20150607 18:45:27< hay207> anyone want to test?
20150607 18:45:45< hay207> i love to get feedback
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20150607 18:49:46< hay207> especially from developers
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20150607 19:05:46< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 5ecc629c2c3e / src/ (actions/undo.cpp actions/undo.hpp play_controller.hpp synced_commands.cpp): fix OOS with sighted events. http://git.io/vIWID
20150607 19:05:46< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master b7d6cc929962 / src/ (menu_events.cpp synced_commands.cpp): sync :unit command http://git.io/vIWIy
20150607 19:05:47< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master b9bbbdef2586 / src/ (menu_events.cpp synced_commands.cpp): sync create unit debug command http://git.io/vIWIS
20150607 19:05:48< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master fb4072192289 / src/ (menu_events.cpp synced_commands.cpp): sync :lua debug command http://git.io/vIWI9
20150607 19:05:49< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 035aa0750614 / src/ (menu_events.cpp synced_commands.cpp): sync :next_level command http://git.io/vIWIH
20150607 19:05:50< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master cb0eda0c2ebb / src/ (menu_events.cpp synced_commands.cpp): sync :turn :turn_limit debug commands http://git.io/vIWIQ
20150607 19:05:52< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master bb74aad2f833 / src/ (menu_events.cpp synced_commands.cpp): fixup http://git.io/vIWI5
20150607 19:05:54< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master c605f07a36af / src/ (menu_events.cpp synced_commands.cpp): sync remaining debug commands http://git.io/vIWId
20150607 19:06:46< gfgtdf> hm forgot to rebase that "fixup" commit should go into teh commit before
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20150607 19:27:16< irker812> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master b160462fb293 / src/synced_commands.cpp: fix :shroud debug command http://git.io/vIWY8
20150607 19:35:49< shadowm> loonycyborg: ... YES.
20150607 19:36:16< loonycyborg> so what exactly?
20150607 19:36:40< shadowm> 20150605 06:10:06< shadowm> loonycyborg: I've yet to hear from you regarding the libogg/libvorbis* bugs or whether you'll be able to package the Windows installer that day.
20150607 19:36:43< shadowm> 20150605 06:11:27< shadowm> loonycyborg: I'd appreciate an answer before 20:00 UTC-03 so 1.12 doesn't spend extra time frozen for nothing in the worst case.
20150607 19:36:50< shadowm> That was two days ago.
20150607 19:37:10< shadowm> So I decided to assume the best and proceed without an answer.
20150607 19:39:43< loonycyborg> that exact day? I can always package within a day of announcement atm
20150607 19:39:48< loonycyborg> tagging that is
20150607 19:40:04< loonycyborg> that is unless I miss messages
20150607 19:40:57< shadowm> Like you've been doing as of late.
20150607 19:41:18< shadowm> Do you have an email address to which I can send you the same message as the other packagers?
20150607 19:41:35< loonycyborg> yes, my gmail.com
20150607 19:42:13< loonycyborg> And that vorbis issue is hard to repro for me
20150607 19:42:52< loonycyborg> I could just rebuild all those libs myself, but not sure if it'll make things worse
20150607 19:44:18< shadowm> loonycyborg: Did you check the method from my bug report?
20150607 19:45:06< shadowm> https://gna.org/bugs/?23633 comment #2, but you will have to restore the small silence.ogg to try.
20150607 19:46:43< loonycyborg> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42429
20150607 19:47:00< loonycyborg> it seems that guy identified a combination of dlls for me
20150607 19:47:04< loonycyborg> I can just use that
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20150607 19:49:42< loonycyborg> shadowm: you're making stable and dev release at the same time right?
20150607 19:49:54< shadowm> Dev is still to be decided, see the topic.
20150607 19:50:32< loonycyborg> I can use dlls from codeblocks sdk for stable release
20150607 19:50:39< shadowm> As well as the mail where I expound on the master-specific issues.
20150607 19:50:47< loonycyborg> and build dlls with a cross-compiler for dev release
20150607 19:51:49< shadowm> I'm not sure what the build toolchain has to do with this. Do you suspect it's a compiler bug?
20150607 19:52:06< loonycyborg> just in case
20150607 19:52:19< loonycyborg> to me itseems that someversion of those libs has a bug
20150607 19:52:42< shadowm> That's my suspicion too seeing as how the issue appears to have cropped up at some point between Debian wheezy and jessie for me.
20150607 19:53:02< loonycyborg> but it could be regression orsomething like that
20150607 19:53:08< loonycyborg> so might exist in newest version
20150607 19:55:02< shadowm> Would it help if I determined the library version (if any) where things used to work correctly here?
20150607 19:56:29< loonycyborg> Yes, it would. If it's the same bug. Which isn't 100% guaranteed even.
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20150607 21:10:59< lipkab> vultraz_iOS: Hi.
20150607 21:11:09< vultraz_iOS>  Hey
20150607 21:11:15< lipkab> Well.
20150607 21:11:33< lipkab> I'm planning to create a campaign (again).
20150607 21:11:41< lipkab> And I'm looking for partners.
20150607 21:12:12< lipkab> So, in case you expect to have too much free time this summer...
20150607 21:12:35< lipkab> ...and want to work with me...
20150607 21:12:40< vultraz_iOS> I'm currently in Paris so I won't be able to help with anything more than advice just now
20150607 21:12:44< lipkab> ...you'd be very welcome!
20150607 21:12:59< shadowm> Do you need anything in particular? Art, code, proofreading, writing?
20150607 21:13:19< vultraz_iOS> But I'd be glad to help out
20150607 21:14:31< lipkab> Writing is my weakest point, but any help is welcome.
20150607 21:14:41< zookeeper> lipkab, if everything goes well, do tell me who those people are so i can bug them as well :>
20150607 21:15:01< lipkab> zookeeper: Hah! I won't bloody tell you :P
20150607 21:16:20< lipkab> vultraz_iOS: Ok, thanks!
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20150607 21:57:34< lipkab> vultraz_iOS, shadowm: Okay here's the first request :) I have a story sketch, but I can't decide on a title: http://pastebin.com/NybKjSkW
20150607 21:57:39< lipkab> Any ideas?
20150607 22:01:23< vultraz_iOS> Well that's certainly convoluted
20150607 22:01:56< lipkab> Ah bon? I thought it was pretty linear.
20150607 22:02:07< zookeeper> well, i don't think that's convoluted as far as the plot goes
20150607 22:02:20< zookeeper> if you had to explain it in 30s then sure, but as a campaign plot, no
20150607 22:04:04< vultraz_iOS> It needs more white walkers
20150607 22:04:38< lipkab> White what?
20150607 22:05:03< vultraz_iOS> I'm joking.
20150607 22:05:07< zookeeper> the main difficulty would seem to be how to adapt that into a campaign; there's a lot of direct conflict within the player side but somehow they still all have to stay on the same side and the useless messiah needs to stick around and ruin everything
20150607 22:05:19< vultraz_iOS> That's a Game of Thrones thing
20150607 22:06:07< lipkab> Ah.
20150607 22:08:31< lipkab> zookeeper: There is no open conflict until the end of chapter 5.
20150607 22:09:23< lipkab> Mind you, Protagonist 1 is a sect member and a believer in his Messiah (initially).
20150607 22:10:28< zookeeper> right
20150607 22:10:36< vultraz_iOS> I can't really give you a title but I would say do NOT call it "The Promised Land"
20150607 22:11:45< lipkab> I didn't plan to. IIRC there's a campaign with that name already.
20150607 22:12:15< zookeeper> is the messiah and his cul... sect supposed to initially seem credible?
20150607 22:12:20< zookeeper> (to the player)
20150607 22:14:14< lipkab> I think yes. I'd like to keep the feeling that things could go either way for as long as possible.
20150607 22:15:11< lipkab> If I discredit the Messiah in the first scene, the storyline would be quite predictable.
20150607 22:15:37< zookeeper> i think that if you have that kind of setup, the absolutely first guess anyone is going to have is that the messiah figure is being used as a tool (even if he's made sympathetic and as if he really believes it himself), especially after UtBS
20150607 22:16:57< zookeeper> i guess it depends on how exactly it's done, maybe it's just your choice of placeholder words which paint a very specific kind of picture about it
20150607 22:17:41< lipkab> Hmm... right.
20150607 22:18:08< zookeeper> everyone knows not to trust a cult leader :P
20150607 22:20:05< lipkab> I may depict the Messiah as more of a revolutionary and they have to leave the city for political reasons...
20150607 22:20:40< lipkab> His Messiah-ness is only required so that he can have transcendent visions that can be proven false later.
20150607 22:22:40< zookeeper> want a random alternative idea?
20150607 22:23:21< lipkab> Sure.
20150607 22:24:58< zookeeper> replace the messiah with an undead spirit of some character-from-the-past, who has some vague fragments of memory of the promised land and whatnot, and have those be the visions they follow
20150607 22:25:51< zookeeper> i suppose the visions not being what they seem like is still predictable
20150607 22:26:41< lipkab> Hmm.
20150607 22:27:34< lipkab> The problem with this idea is that it would make a lots of story elements rather weird.
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20150607 22:27:48< zookeeper> well, sure
20150607 22:27:51< lipkab> Like, the dream in chapter 5.
20150607 22:28:03< zookeeper> most of the chapters would need to be changed
20150607 22:30:25< lipkab> Also, the main focus of the story is the relation between Messiah and Protagonist 1, as they go from master and student -> friends -> rivals -> enemies.
20150607 22:31:21< lipkab> That would be way less powerful if one of them was a ghost.
20150607 22:37:22< shadowm> :|
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20150607 22:40:49< shadowm> "Messiah gets his people into yet another Great Danger. Background character #348 starts a riot. The angry mob lynches Messiah. Protagonist #1 buries his remains."
20150607 22:44:59< lipkab> I might have been a bit too schematical. Great Danger doesn't mean that they're taken to swim with crocodiles or something like that.
20150607 22:45:41< lipkab> They take a dangerous mountaing pass and get hit by a storm, for example.
20150607 22:45:47< lipkab> *mountain
20150607 22:46:39< lipkab> I don't think it's too much to expect from people who left their homes to follow this guy in the first place.
20150607 22:47:02< shadowm> I think schematical is the key word for the whole thing.
20150607 22:48:07< lipkab> Of course. I can't work out every details at once :)
20150607 22:48:15< lipkab> *detail
20150607 22:48:49< shadowm> So yeah, it's pretty much impossible to come up with a meaningful title at this stage.
20150607 22:49:24< lipkab> :(
20150607 22:49:34< shadowm> As it stands it seems to be more about the journey than the characters, so "The Promised Land" would work just fine as a working title.
20150607 22:49:56< shadowm> But it's a pretty generic title and I suspect someone must've used it for UMC already.
20150607 22:50:43< shadowm> There is a Promised Land campaign for 1.8.
20150607 22:52:09< shadowm> It's not clear either whether the story has a specific purpose. Does Protagonist 1 survive to learn something from the whole fiasco? What do they learn?
20150607 22:52:27< lipkab> Do Not Follow The Messiah.
20150607 22:52:36< shadowm> They left a city for a barren land. What have they obtained from the journey?
20150607 22:52:56< Necrosporus> What campaign are you talking about?
20150607 22:52:57< shadowm> Can they return or are they and their people pariahs now?
20150607 22:53:12< lipkab> I haven't decided that yet.
20150607 22:53:51< shadowm> Hm, this false messiah thing, where have I heard it before in the context of a post-Fall campaign? :p
20150607 22:54:25< lipkab> Where have you? :P
20150607 22:55:04< shadowm> Three campaigns come to mind; although, to be fair, they broach the subject from an outsider's view and without going _too_ deep into it.
20150607 22:55:46< shadowm> Although I'm sure everyone's favorite add-on must've covered it at some point as well.
20150607 22:56:13< shadowm> It's hard to tell because nobody has bothered making a page summarizing its plot and it's so absurdly long.
20150607 22:59:41< lipkab> By the way, at some point I considered using this storyline for Elyssa of UtBS/IftU/AtS.
20150607 23:00:32< lipkab> Switch Messiah for Elyssa, Promised Land for Sceptre of Fire and Evil Spirit for Chaos Forces.
20150607 23:00:48< lipkab> Yeah, and followers for dwarvish companions.
20150607 23:01:25< shadowm> That story has such a depressing ending.
20150607 23:02:09< lipkab> Yeah, and different ending too. Elyssa wins >:)
20150607 23:03:54< lipkab> Thanks for the suggestions, everyone and good {insert your current time of day here}!
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20150607 23:05:02< shadowm> I said depressing, didn't say she loses.
20150607 23:06:20< shadowm> Anyway, what's with people and post-Fall campaigns? I believe there's still plenty of room for elaborating on mainline epoch stuff.
20150607 23:07:11< shadowm> Bonus points if someone manages to do something unique so I can kick NR out of mainline and bring a superior replacement.
20150607 23:13:26< vultraz_iOS> I think we like post-fall because it's a much cooler bit of time
20150607 23:14:02< vultraz_iOS> But I suppose that might be due to people not making enough cool campaigns during the mainline epoch
20150607 23:15:37< vultraz_iOS> Though, the Fall is basically the apocalypse.
20150607 23:15:54< vultraz_iOS> And you know how popular post-apocalyptic stuff is nowadays
20150607 23:16:19< vultraz_iOS> There's only so many times you can kill orcs and undead and the lot in the mainline epoch
20150607 23:16:29< vultraz_iOS> The fall gives unique storytelling opportunities
20150607 23:23:16< shadowm> To that I can only say: meh.
20150607 23:23:37< shadowm> You know what else is popular these days? Remakes, reboots, and other rewhatevers.
20150607 23:23:57< shadowm> Thank goodness nobody is trying to remake NR. As far as we know.
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 08 00:00:10 2015