--- Log opened Fri Jun 26 00:00:35 2015
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20150626 00:06:01< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6678 (1.12.4 - bebd642 : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build passed.
20150626 00:06:01< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/68402948
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20150626 00:12:05< shadowm> gfgtdf: Could you mark https://gna.org/bugs/?23399 as fixed and assign it to yourself?
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20150626 00:16:34< shadowm> Uh, what happened to the Campaigns menu in master?
20150626 00:17:13< shadowm> It's kind of messy and stuff and what happened to the laurels?
20150626 00:18:27< shadowm> I wanted to release 1.13.1 this weekend but suddenly I'm not so sure.
20150626 00:22:53< shadowm> zookeeper, vultraz_iOS: Which mainline campaigns do you NOT maintain at the moment and which could be considered broken at the moment (other than LoW MP)?
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20150626 01:53:24< vultraz_iOS> I only maintain THoT, AToTB, AOI, DiD and NR. The last does have a few reported issues I have not addressed, and as I have not finished revamping things, the latter half of scenarios could be considered broken. Bumba only maintains EI (but has called dibs on TSG), but the only major game-breaking bug related to that was mitigated with the fixing of [role]. I
20150626 01:53:24< vultraz_iOS> think NR is really the only thing that could be considered broken. I don't know about LoW SP, though.
20150626 01:54:20< shadowm> shikadibot: seen bumbadadabum
20150626 01:54:20< shikadibot> shadowm: Sorry, I don't know of bumbadadabum.
20150626 01:54:48< shadowm> I'd assume him dead by now, and EI unmaintained.
20150626 01:59:19< vultraz_iOS> He did tell me not too long ago he intended to finish it
20150626 01:59:25< vultraz_iOS> But I haven't heard much since
20150626 01:59:36< vultraz_iOS> That might be a good idea until he returns
20150626 02:00:21< shadowm> I think zookeeper maintains everything you didn't mention save for DM, LoW, and maybe DW?
20150626 02:01:14< shadowm> I should probably try to play LoW in SP mode again now that fabi isn't around to tell me to stop halfway through the first quarter of the campaign.
20150626 02:01:30< pydsigner> Schrodinger's Cat principle
20150626 02:01:38< vultraz_iOS> I intend to go over them all and clean up the code and improve stuff
20150626 02:01:41< shadowm> Why am I interested in knowing which campaigns are unmaintained, you ask? To decide whether to kick them out of mainline or call for maintainers.
20150626 02:01:46< vultraz_iOS> Hopefully before the end of the year
20150626 02:01:57< vultraz_iOS> I've made good progress so far
20150626 02:02:09< pydsigner> shadowm: Ouch
20150626 02:02:14< vultraz_iOS> So technically I'd maintain them all
20150626 02:02:36< pydsigner> Has any campaign ever been dropped from mainline?
20150626 02:02:49< shadowm> And I'd rather not remove LoW because I like the writing and the gameplay isn't that bad for an elves' campaign.
20150626 02:03:18< shadowm> Yes, my predecessors kicked several campaigns out of mainline in 1.1.x.
20150626 02:04:02< shadowm> SotBE (which had less than half the scenarios the finished version does) and The Dark Hordes.
20150626 02:04:14< shadowm> (TDH was never finished, period.)
20150626 02:04:51< shadowm> And back in 2008 when I wasn't around due to circumstances, people were about to remove UtBS over a couple of bugs.
20150626 02:05:05< vultraz_iOS> Heh
20150626 02:05:15< shadowm> I was not particularly impressed when I found out, for obvious reasons.
20150626 02:05:31< vultraz_iOS> I do wish we could finally agree on the desert elves' background though
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20150626 02:05:34< pydsigner> UtBS is a code horror
20150626 02:05:59< vultraz_iOS> It's bad that we have a mainline campaign and we don't even agree on the background of the main cast
20150626 02:06:11< shadowm> Where do we even disagree?
20150626 02:06:32< shadowm> The Fall happened, the desert elves of UtBS are the remnants of the original forest elves.
20150626 02:06:47< vultraz_iOS> Back when lord bob was doing portraits I suggested we do some for utbs
20150626 02:06:47< shadowm> When or where this happened is not important.
20150626 02:06:51< pydsigner> The background of the desert elves is more or less spelled out in the campaign
20150626 02:07:01< vultraz_iOS> And the there was some big discussion about why we can't do that
20150626 02:07:35< shadowm> What we did disagree extensively back when UtBS had three maintainers was about how to restructure the faction to seem less of a palette swap of the forest elves.
20150626 02:07:39< pydsigner> I've been waiting for new UtBS portraits for... forever
20150626 02:08:11< shadowm> And that's more or less what's caused the portraits task to be stuck in limbo.
20150626 02:08:14< vultraz_iOS> (Someone remind me to draw a new Kaleh when I get back)
20150626 02:08:22< vultraz_iOS> (Sprite)
20150626 02:08:54< shadowm> I think the current sprite is fine although it may need a skin palette change if we finally change their skin color later.
20150626 02:09:16< vultraz_iOS> I say we should just get LB back (if available ) and commission portraits for NR and UtBS
20150626 02:09:20< shadowm> The point of contention was the dozen other units.
20150626 02:09:34< vultraz_iOS> For the MCs at least
20150626 02:09:38< vultraz_iOS> Not the generics
20150626 02:09:57< shadowm> Like, some wanted to replace the Shaman line, others thought it was perfectly line, other wanted *another* line containing the equivalent of the Sorceress...
20150626 02:10:26< pydsigner> I don't have a problem with them basically being a re-skin
20150626 02:10:36< pydsigner> They have adjusted stats and new units
20150626 02:10:43< shadowm> There were concerns about details like their metalwork as well.
20150626 02:11:18< vultraz_iOS> Yeah, but these are all things most game designers can decide on in a few weeks not 5 years :|
20150626 02:11:36< shadowm> Like, where do they even get the steel for their swords? Why horses? Why not make them ride giraffes or something?
20150626 02:11:49< vultraz_iOS> Why not let LB get creative
20150626 02:11:53< vultraz_iOS> With the designs
20150626 02:11:56< pydsigner> "While Rome burned, the firefighters squabbled about whether the laurel on the new Denarius made Caesar's ears look big"
20150626 02:12:01< vultraz_iOS> And go from there
20150626 02:12:10< shadowm> vultraz_iOS: But we three people decided to smack each other over this stuff.
20150626 02:12:30< shadowm> Then we all independently quit and UtBS became unmaintained again.
20150626 02:13:06< vultraz_iOS> It's on my list
20150626 02:13:18< shadowm> So yeah, in hindsight, I'd prefer to have a portrait artist get invovled.
20150626 02:13:59< vultraz_iOS> Well speak to jetrel
20150626 02:14:03< vultraz_iOS> I believe we have the funds
20150626 02:17:22< shadowm> You speak to Jetrel.
20150626 02:17:57< shadowm> Okay, I'll speak to Jetrel.
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20150626 03:43:45< vultraz_iOS> Oh btw, note that I still have some work on the tutorial
20150626 03:44:07< vultraz_iOS> Making it fully compatible with users not following the instructions
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20150626 07:48:44-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth 1.13.1 ETA: Saturday June 27 20:00 UTC-03:00 | Wesnoth 1.12.4 tagged, announcement pending | String freeze ACTIVE on 1.12 branch | Wesnoth Developers Channel | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org
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20150626 07:59:50< loonycyborg> shadowm: I've uploaded to sf, but not sure how to find that release page on github
20150626 08:00:51< shadowm> Right, I haven't created it yet.
20150626 08:02:12< loonycyborg> Just how do I find releases on github? I don't see anything related to them on main repo patge
20150626 08:02:14< loonycyborg> page
20150626 08:03:31< shadowm> There's a bar with statistics above the file tree view.
20150626 08:04:15< shadowm> Clicking on the number of releases will reveal the releases page, but I still need to create a release for 1.12.4 because lol GH.
20150626 08:05:25< shadowm> And it's up now: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/releases/edit/untagged-2db9d234e6d8d84d5b7a
20150626 08:05:54< shadowm> Also the order is nonsensical. I hate this crap.
20150626 08:06:11-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20150626 08:06:38< shadowm> Maybe we should just get Dave to buy us a dedicated file server and move all of f.w.o there.
20150626 08:06:49< shadowm> As well as all existing and future release files.
20150626 08:08:22< loonycyborg> the only bar I see is with language stats
20150626 08:08:24< shadowm> Or we could just go back to linking to files.w.o as an alternative and give ancestral and mattsc http server accounts.
20150626 08:08:37< loonycyborg> and there's no number of releases near it
20150626 08:08:39< shadowm> And let users decide which link to use.
20150626 08:09:06< shadowm> loonycyborg: "61,461 commits / 33 branches / 264 releases / 107 contributors"
20150626 08:09:16< shadowm> I can see it even when not logged in.
20150626 08:09:21< loonycyborg> oh
20150626 08:09:27< loonycyborg> 264 releases
20150626 08:09:34< loonycyborg> I thought it should be 1 or 2
20150626 08:09:42< loonycyborg> so I didn't pay attention
20150626 08:09:48< shadowm> It counts tags as releases for that statistic.
20150626 08:10:11< loonycyborg> ok
20150626 08:10:18< loonycyborg> goddamn confusing github
20150626 08:14:52< shadowm> SF.net's ToS don't seem to say anything about directly linking to files.
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20150626 08:15:30< zookeeper> shadowm, i don't know of any broken campaigns, but i do seem to perpetually ignore LoW, NR, DM and THoT
20150626 08:15:54< shadowm> LoW MP is broken as hell is the last thing I heard from the bug tracker.
20150626 08:16:02< vultraz_iOS> zookeeper: do you mind if I maintain UtBS too
20150626 08:16:19< shadowm> No idea about SP. However, there is one thing I do know for sure.
20150626 08:16:26< zookeeper> all the others are ones i'm available to fix serious bugs in when necessary, i'm just not really doing any polishing/balancing/tweaking work right now (or have been for a long time...)
20150626 08:16:42< shadowm> After 1.12 was branched off master, fabi started pushing fixes to LoW on 1.12 that weren't immediately fwported to master.
20150626 08:17:02< zookeeper> vultraz_iOS, probably not
20150626 08:17:12< zookeeper> technically i guess it depends on what sort of things you'd do :P
20150626 08:17:20< shadowm> I ermember trying to collect a list of fixes missing in master for Turuk (who was at the time supposed to take over LoW but then predictably disappeared) and giving up.
20150626 08:17:40< vultraz_iOS> Turku always disappears
20150626 08:17:41< shadowm> Then I lost interest on that crap.
20150626 08:17:47< vultraz_iOS> Turuk too
20150626 08:18:35< shadowm> He should join the dev team ban list along with everyone who didn't deign to at least provide an excuse for not helping with the 1.12 RCs.
20150626 08:20:00< shadowm> zookeeper: I asked Jetrel to look into Wesnoth's finances to see if we can commission UtBS portraits from LordBob, by the way.
20150626 08:20:25< zookeeper> right
20150626 08:22:51< vultraz_iOS> I wonder what to do with that new map for UtBS s6b or something that alarantalara made a long time ago
20150626 08:22:53< shadowm> vultraz_iOS: But really, what do you actually intend to do with UtBS?
20150626 08:23:07< shadowm> I'm unaware of any such thing even existing.
20150626 08:23:53< shadowm> 6b happens to be a scenario I've only played once or twice because I'm a speciesist and always ally myself with the dwarves.
20150626 08:24:28< shadowm> s/or twice// Sorry, no idea where that came from. I've played it exactly once.
20150626 08:24:46< vultraz_iOS> Hm I guess he just updated the map, period
20150626 08:24:54< vultraz_iOS> Could have sworn there was some problem somewhere
20150626 08:25:11< shadowm> When I played UtBS on 1.12.0 I didn't find any obvious bugs either.
20150626 08:25:41< vultraz_iOS> Alright
20150626 08:25:58< vultraz_iOS> At minimum I intend to clean up the code like the other campaigns
20150626 08:26:11< vultraz_iOS> Perhaps do some aesthetic map tweaks
20150626 08:26:17< shadowm> Well, I did find a couple of bugs I fixed at the time.
20150626 08:26:33< vultraz_iOS> Add facings
20150626 08:26:45< vultraz_iOS> Because no one thought facings were necessary in mainline for some reason
20150626 08:26:47< shadowm> Also it was an RC, not gold.
20150626 08:26:51< shadowm> Memory!
20150626 08:27:37< shadowm> vultraz_iOS: Code cleanups on UtBS worry me because we once had a dev (cycholka) go and mess everything up in an attempt to clean it up.
20150626 08:28:00< vultraz_iOS> Do you not consider me a competent coder
20150626 08:28:02< shadowm> Splitting a scenario (not even the most complex one) into separate files and introducing bugs.
20150626 08:28:21< shadowm> Then there's that UtBS rewrite project we don't speak of.
20150626 08:28:33< vultraz_iOS> (I have no idea the skill of this cycholka)
20150626 08:28:57< shadowm> As well as the other UtBS rewrite project that's actually stillborn.
20150626 08:29:24< shadowm> vultraz_iOS: Competent enough to port IftU to 1.5.x.
20150626 08:30:14< shadowm> That's no small undertaking considering that's the crappiest hairy ball of code ever made.
20150626 08:30:27< vultraz_iOS> Ouch
20150626 08:30:35< shadowm> I mean the 1.3.x version.
20150626 08:30:44< shadowm> Which is the original IftU.
20150626 08:30:49< vultraz_iOS> I shudder
20150626 08:30:54< shadowm> Not his port.
20150626 08:31:21< shadowm> I think he actually had to fix some of the usual branch transition bugs for the 1.5.x port.
20150626 08:31:57< shadowm> Because it's such a mess it tends to break on its own when you stop looking at it.
20150626 08:32:01< zookeeper> if there's something i'd like in UtBS then it'd be untomatoing as many cases of "units spawning on moveto" as possible
20150626 08:32:45< shadowm> I find those to be part of the campaign's charm.
20150626 08:33:06< zookeeper> better than just bumping into the units via sighted? :x
20150626 08:33:19< zookeeper> you have odd tastes then
20150626 08:33:26< shadowm> Are sighted's bugs with DSU fixed yet?
20150626 08:33:27< vultraz_iOS> Untomatoing?
20150626 08:33:47< zookeeper> IIRC they were, but as usual i'm not sure
20150626 08:34:06< zookeeper> untomatoing = making something less of a potential tomato surprise
20150626 08:34:18< shadowm> There is one scenario where they are absolutely infuriating, though. Scenario 2.
20150626 08:34:42< zookeeper> oh yeah
20150626 08:35:03< shadowm> Managing dehydration and random encounters at the same time isn't fun.
20150626 08:35:27< shadowm> It also doesn't help that I think there are a few encounters that have strange conditions and don't always happen.
20150626 08:36:00< shadowm> For example, the Vengeful Lord's encounter.
20150626 08:36:59< shadowm> It sounds like it happens only when you approach the castle for the first time at night or something.
20150626 08:37:20< zookeeper> oh and WRT sighted; it's probably possible to trigger a moveto event when the equivalent non-DSU sighted event would happen
20150626 08:37:46< shadowm> And then there's scenario 3 which has some non-obvious event sequence variations.
20150626 08:39:27< shadowm> That isn't an inherently *bad* thing, I guess. Some would argue that adds replay value.
20150626 08:39:45< shadowm> Except that the conditions are out of your control so there isn't even a hint that such replay value exists.
20150626 08:40:23< vultraz_iOS> I will look into this
20150626 08:40:44< vultraz_iOS> But I can't here
20150626 08:40:56< shadowm> So it's just plain randomness until you look at the crummy WML behind it all.
20150626 08:41:13< vultraz_iOS> Someone remind me to buy a slim and light laptop the next time I do so
20150626 08:41:49< shadowm> Relatedly, I think I've read people complain about there not being any indication that captain what's his name will die in scenario 3.
20150626 08:42:20< vultraz_iOS> Come on it's part of the story
20150626 08:42:23< shadowm> So they feed him XP that would be better used with other units.
20150626 08:42:46< vultraz_iOS> In iftu there's no indication leidnor dies
20150626 08:42:56< shadowm> Yeah, I know, right? I wouldn't precisely splatter foreshadowing for such a thing all over the place.
20150626 08:43:06< shadowm> However, maybe he could have some more XP or start as a Marshal.
20150626 08:43:27< shadowm> That way people are less likely to favor him instead of the non-loyal recruits.
20150626 08:43:38< vultraz_iOS> Will remember
20150626 08:43:49< shadowm> Or should, in principle. Then again, it isn't unheard of for people to AMLA Delfador to hell.
20150626 08:44:30< zookeeper> at least leveling him up makes him more beefy when he goes berserk
20150626 08:44:45< zookeeper> ...a sequence i've always found a bit weird
20150626 08:45:00< zookeeper> could zhul give the same blessing to someone else, please?
20150626 08:45:08< zookeeper> like, half my fighters?
20150626 08:49:04< shadowm> Hence the player's lack of agency on these optional things bothers me.
20150626 08:50:54< zookeeper> now that you've reminded me of all these things, i agree that UtBS has a huge pile of things that need fixing
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20150626 14:09:10< gfgtdf> shadowm: iirc last time i talked to fabi he he said he had a a lot of changes to LoW locally not pushed yet to 1.12
20150626 14:09:40< gfgtdf> shadowm: the problemwas that it introduces new units and thus incompability with older versions.
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20150626 15:04:30< ancestral> shadowm: I will be working on packages. I may need until Sunday for one or both.
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20150626 15:54:25< vultraz_iOS> shadowm: would you mind confirming the two bugs konrad2 just reported for Thot?
20150626 15:56:47< vultraz_iOS> And possibly fixing them
20150626 15:56:50< vultraz_iOS> They look simple
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20150626 18:43:36< gfgtdf> lipkab: you can fix 22335 ?
20150626 18:44:00< gfgtdf> shadowm: why exaclty you think teh campaign dialog is messy ?
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20150626 19:05:10< lipkab> gfgtdf: Seems a bit tricky, but sure, I'll look into it.
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20150626 19:53:55< c74d> Maybe give Garak an ability that gives his XP to other units?
20150626 19:58:22< gfgtdf> who is Garak ?
20150626 19:59:37< c74d> gfgtdf: a character in UtBS, the "captain what's his name" referred to above.
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20150626 21:22:42< vultraz_iOS> What happened to my message where I asked gfgtdf for a screenshot of the campaign dialog o.O
20150626 21:23:00< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: dont remeber such message
20150626 21:23:09< vultraz_iOS> Must've not sent
20150626 21:23:24< vultraz_iOS> I was asking if you could post a screenshot of the campaign dialog in master
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20150626 21:33:03< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: http://i.imgur.com/X2nDRHp.jpg
20150626 21:33:44< vultraz_iOS> Ok so why is that needed for modifications?
20150626 21:34:21< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: becase teh modifications are at teh end of the list (that is not visivble on the image)
20150626 21:35:13< vultraz_iOS> Why not just have a dedicated list (list box or toggle) under the campaigns for modifications?
20150626 21:35:25< vultraz_iOS> But no toggle for campaigns
20150626 21:35:29< vultraz_iOS> Because it looks bad
20150626 21:35:45< vultraz_iOS> (Again I can work On this when I get back)
20150626 21:36:28< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: the campaoghns toggle panels are teh ame as before
20150626 21:36:34< gfgtdf> same*
20150626 21:36:47< vultraz_iOS> Yeah but we never used them
20150626 21:37:19< vultraz_iOS> I'm suggesting making it so there's a toggle for modifications after the campaign listbox
20150626 21:37:37< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: ?? whenever we clicked ona campaign we toggled them, i think we takl about different things
20150626 21:37:55< vultraz_iOS> Uhh
20150626 21:38:14< vultraz_iOS> Wait what do you call the widget that has that arrow to pull the list up or down?
20150626 21:38:50< gfgtdf> the is the scroll panel
20150626 21:38:53< gfgtdf> that*
20150626 21:39:56< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: ok
20150626 21:40:09< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: you mea teh items taht seperate teh 2 campaigns list
20150626 21:40:16< vultraz_iOS> Yeah
20150626 21:40:16< shadowm> c74d: Sounds too non-vanilla to me.
20150626 21:40:37< vultraz_iOS> I propose we keep the campaigns in ONE list like we always have
20150626 21:40:43< vultraz_iOS> No arrows
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20150626 21:40:57< shadowm> gfgtdf: I can't quite put my finger on it but the Campaigns menu right now looks decidedly amateurish in design.
20150626 21:41:02< vultraz_iOS> And then add another listbox (possibly with arrows) for modifications
20150626 21:41:03< pydsigner> shadowm: Since when is anything UtbS does vanilla?
20150626 21:42:00< vultraz_iOS> But we should not have those arrows and certainly not two lists for campaigns
20150626 21:42:34< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: I think putting it in one things is easy to do
20150626 21:42:45< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: having oynl 1 campaigns list i mean
20150626 21:42:50< vultraz_iOS> Yes
20150626 21:42:53< vultraz_iOS> Just like before
20150626 21:42:55< shadowm> gfgtdf: It might be because 1) the collapse/expand arrows are part of the list rather than external to it; 2) clicking on their labels doesn't do anything; 3) clicking on the checkbox labels for modifications doesn't do anything either; 4) where did the laurels go?; 5) the "completed/not completed/modifications" categorization makes no sense because one of those items is not like the others.
20150626 21:42:56< vultraz_iOS> And no arrows
20150626 21:43:14< vultraz_iOS> Everything shadowm said
20150626 21:43:36< vultraz_iOS> Restore the old campaign listbox and add another for modifications
20150626 21:44:02< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: actualy i wouldnt know where to put teh other list
20150626 21:44:10< vultraz_iOS> Under the campaign list
20150626 21:44:19< vultraz_iOS> Two listbox widgets on top of each other
20150626 21:44:37< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: i'll just remove those arrows for now
20150626 21:44:44< shadowm> Guard the mod list behind a toggle button or one of the treeview arrow thingies.
20150626 21:44:50< vultraz_iOS> Yes
20150626 21:44:56< vultraz_iOS> That's what I've been saying
20150626 21:45:00< vultraz_iOS> shadowm understands
20150626 21:45:23< shadowm> I think this is just a case of great minds things alike, vultraz_iOS, because I've not read a single thinig you said. :p
20150626 21:45:28< shadowm> thinks
20150626 21:45:30< shadowm> think
20150626 21:45:45< vultraz_iOS> Indeed
20150626 21:46:32< shadowm> For that matter, making the mod list exist even if empty would help with discoverability if we actually wanted mods to be used in SP mode.
20150626 21:46:57< shadowm> I just started a session with wesnoth-defaults and noticed that there's no mod list with an empty add-ons dir.
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20150626 21:58:06< gfgtdf> shadowm: so what shoudl be in teh list if there ar no mods ?
20150626 21:58:30< shadowm> Some placeholder text like "there are no mods installed", of course.
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20150626 21:59:15< pydsigner> "No mods available"
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20150626 21:59:31< shadowm> 'Installed' is a better word than 'available' in this case.
20150626 21:59:44< pydsigner> Ah true
20150626 21:59:46< shadowm> That they aren't installed doesn't mean they aren't available for installing from the add-ons server.
20150626 22:00:16< pydsigner> SP mods will definitely be nice though
20150626 22:00:44< pydsigner> I won't mind destroyed right-click menus in SP going away
20150626 22:01:29< gfgtdf> pydsigner: what do you mean by destroyed right click menus?
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20150626 22:08:48< vultraz_iOS> Destroyed right click menus?
20150626 22:08:51< shadowm> vultraz_iOS: I don't have saves of THoT beyond the first quarter..
20150626 22:09:11< vultraz_iOS> Just cl
20150626 22:09:17< vultraz_iOS> And debug your way through
20150626 22:09:42< shadowm> Maybe after 1.13.1.
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20150626 22:17:24< pydsigner> gfgtdf, vultraz_iOS: With mod enabling menu items
20150626 22:17:37< pydsigner> s/destroyed/spammed/
20150626 22:17:46< gfgtdf> pydsigner: ah ok
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20150626 22:22:29< gfgtdf> another thing that i havent decided yet is what teh default type (mp/sp or both) for modifications shoudl be
20150626 22:23:50< gfgtdf> the problem is: I'd rather want doth as default but the problem is that [modification]s inside #ifdef MULIPLAYER (like most current modifications are) casue bugs if they dont have type=mp
20150626 22:24:00< gfgtdf> to solve this it might be better to have mp teh default
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--- Log closed Sat Jun 27 00:00:37 2015