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20150621 06:06:22< Afdal> oh neat
20150621 06:06:26< Afdal> there's an IRC channel
20150621 06:07:30< Afdal> Is this where I can get some help getting modding questions answered?
20150621 06:08:01< Afdal> or is that #wesnoth-dev
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20150621 06:08:15< shadowm> This is the correct place.
20150621 06:08:44< Afdal> I'm seriously considering making a certain mod for this game but I need some questions answered first
20150621 06:08:52< Afdal> about what is possibly to mod
20150621 06:08:55< Afdal> possible*
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20150621 06:09:23< shadowm> A lot of things, though the effort required varies.
20150621 06:09:26< Afdal> 1.  Is it possible to change damage to fractional values?
20150621 06:09:42< Afdal> decimal values, I mean
20150621 06:09:57< shadowm> I don't think so.
20150621 06:10:01< Afdal> aww
20150621 06:10:03< Afdal> really
20150621 06:10:14< Afdal> ._.
20150621 06:10:46< shadowm> Yeah, it's not possible. The internal representation for attack definitions uses integers for damage.
20150621 06:10:55< Afdal> whelp
20150621 06:11:06< Afdal> Guess that kills the mod then
20150621 06:11:18< shadowm> Why?
20150621 06:11:20< Afdal> thanks for the help
20150621 06:11:43< Afdal> allowing fractional damage is the only way to properly retain balance with it
20150621 06:11:55< scythetwirler> can't you just scale it?
20150621 06:12:03< Afdal> whaddya mean
20150621 06:12:16< Afdal> increase everyone's HP to compensate?
20150621 06:12:16< scythetwirler> multiply all HPs by 10 etc.
20150621 06:12:21< Afdal> hmm
20150621 06:12:26< scythetwirler> and then make damage as specific as you want.
20150621 06:12:41< Afdal> I don't know if I could think of all the possible situations to ensure I scale it by enough...
20150621 06:12:43< Afdal> hmm
20150621 06:14:29< Afdal> maybe...
20150621 06:14:55< Afdal> Might it be possible to write a stochastic function to give a probability of rounding damage either up or down?
20150621 06:16:25< Afdal> meh
20150621 06:16:58< Afdal> I was thinking of making a no-missing mod that addresses the current imbalance issues of the No Randomness mod
20150621 06:17:25< Afdal> one of which is units with low damage but lots of attacks get extremely overpowered due to all the damage being rounded up
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20150621 06:27:41< Afdal> Well...  Maybe if all attacks and HP were scaled up by a factor of 10
20150621 06:27:53< Afdal> that would still address a substantial amount of the imbalance associated with rounding
20150621 06:28:32< Afdal> scaling much further than that might make it too laborious to read and plan out damage
20150621 06:30:12< Afdal> Well then.  2.  Is it possible to mod the UI elements to present these alternate damages?  Furthermore is it possible to remove the x-number of attacks from the display?
20150621 06:30:54< Afdal> Can damage displayed on the world map present more than two digits?
20150621 06:32:34< Afdal> 3.  Is it possible to give status-special attacks like Slow and Poison a probability of inflicting the status, instead of it working always once an attack hits?
20150621 06:33:12< shadowm> The sidebar display is pretty inflexible, unfortunately. It only shows the standard unit attributes.
20150621 06:33:51< shadowm> As or 3, yes, but it's much easier to just change the attack's chance to hit.
20150621 06:34:59< Afdal> So I couldn't like have a unit should 540/650 HP in the right column when mouse hovering over them?
20150621 06:35:05< Afdal> have a unit show*
20150621 06:35:37< shadowm> Oh, no, of course you can do that if that's the unit's actual HP/max HP.
20150621 06:36:03< shadowm> You can also modify HP/max HP pre, mid, and post-attack.
20150621 06:36:29< Afdal> what did you mean by sidebar display :o
20150621 06:36:46< shadowm> Right column = sidebar.
20150621 06:36:49< Afdal> oh
20150621 06:37:06< Afdal> All I really need to mod in that are health numbers
20150621 06:37:31< Afdal> and then the damage numbers in the attack prediction panel and the damage numbers displayed on the world map during an attack
20150621 06:38:17< shadowm> The UI will show whatever the unit's state is.
20150621 06:38:45< Afdal> it doesn't have an 8-bit limit or anything like that does it
20150621 06:38:56< Afdal> never seen a unit with 256 HP :)
20150621 06:39:10< shadowm> You've clearly not played any of my campaigns then.
20150621 06:39:16< Afdal> :3
20150621 06:39:27< shadowm> These parameters are usually internally represented using 32-bit integers.
20150621 06:39:37< Afdal> oh greate
20150621 06:39:41< shadowm> That gives you a theoretical limit of 2^32 for most things.
20150621 06:39:45< Afdal> :)
20150621 06:40:07< Afdal> so the real limiting factor is how many digits the UI can display
20150621 06:40:19< shadowm> Movement points are an exception because the pathfinding algorithm breaks or used to break with excessively large values (greater than 100 I think).
20150621 06:40:37< shadowm> Same goes for map sizes, which is why the editor limits maps to 200x200.
20150621 06:41:30< shadowm> Also, the AI's computation efficiency may decrease significantly with large HP values (greater than 9000 I think).
20150621 06:41:38< Afdal> oh really
20150621 06:41:46< Afdal> hmm
20150621 06:42:11< Afdal> guess a factor of 100 is out of the question then
20150621 06:42:14< shadowm> Also, the AI may either become suicidal or go into coward mode if there's a significant difference in max HP between units.
20150621 06:42:32< Afdal> aww
20150621 06:42:49< shadowm> That is, all units having around 500 HP would be fine, but if a single unit has 500 HP and the rest is all around 50 HP it may have trouble deciding how to deal with that single unit.
20150621 06:42:55< Afdal> is this difference a proportional difference
20150621 06:43:07< Afdal> or a raw value difference
20150621 06:43:46< shadowm> I think it's proportional?
20150621 06:44:09< Afdal> so if all units had around 50 but one had 5 it has the same problem?
20150621 06:45:08< shadowm> I doubt it, unless it had disproportionately high damage output.
20150621 06:46:15< shadowm> Since the AI tries to take immediate risks into account too IIRC.
20150621 06:50:40< Afdal> Do you know if the game can handle fractional probabilities in determining the outcome of a hit attempt?
20150621 06:51:22< Afdal> nevermind, that was a dumb question
20150621 06:52:07< Afdal> I just need to figure out how I'm going to make status effects only happen some of the time
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20150621 07:33:13< Afdal> For instance an attack of three poison daggers at 60% hit rate would have a 78.4% chance of at least one of them hitting, and thus a 78.4% chance of poisoning the target.  Am I able to make the game use 78.4% as a chance of poisoning for a single attack?
20150621 07:39:42< Afdal> err wait
20150621 07:39:47< Afdal> 93.6% :)
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20150621 07:40:01< Afdal> derp
20150621 07:41:33< shadowm> I think one way to do it would be to remove the poison special at the start of an attack (so it still shows up in the attack UI), then emulate it by handling the attack hits event.
20150621 07:41:55< shadowm> And bring back the special at the end of the attack sequence, of course.
20150621 07:42:41< Afdal> you mean do a second attack that's poisoned and does zero damage?
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20150621 07:42:53< Afdal> Can you do that without doing the animation and stuff for the second attack?
20150621 07:43:48< shadowm> You can manipulate unit statuses directly in code.
20150621 07:43:57< Afdal> oh :)
20150621 07:44:30< Afdal> but I need a stochastic function to determine the probability of that status effect actually happening
20150621 07:44:49< Afdal> Can I just grab that function from whatever is currently used for determining if an attack is going to hit?
20150621 07:46:16< Afdal> probably using that term wrong, I always do
20150621 07:46:21< Afdal> probability distribution function
20150621 07:46:22< Afdal> whatever
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 22 00:00:28 2015