--- Log opened Sat Jul 04 00:00:45 2015
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20150704 09:11:27< zookeeper> what is it about people using the word "fraction" for faction? i don't believe that that just happens to be the word for faction in a lot of other languages.o 
20150704 09:11:32< zookeeper> -o
20150704 09:12:21< zookeeper> but it just happens utterly constantly and always has
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20150704 15:20:39< irker102> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 4e7e00d2d593 / / (11 files in 4 dirs): New dwarf hit and die sounds http://git.io/vqmet
20150704 15:20:58< Soliton> zookeeper: it is in german at least.
20150704 15:21:20< zookeeper> right
20150704 15:25:35< irker102> wesnoth: Lari Nieminen resources:master aabc40de5051 / sounds-wav/ (7 files): Lossless copies of new dwarf hit and die sounds http://git.io/vqmvO
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20150704 19:28:52< zookeeper> shadowm, is there a maximum officially supported map size?
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20150704 19:38:21< pydsigner> 200x200 I would have thought
20150704 19:39:30< zookeeper> yeah, that's the maximum the editor allows
20150704 19:40:06< pydsigner> I suspect you could get away with manually editing the map
20150704 19:40:12< zookeeper> i just don't know if the game is supposed to still function up to some other limit, similarly to how you can have >9 sides even if you can only put 9 starting locations on a map
20150704 19:40:31< pydsigner> But definitely stuff will start breaking at 999,999
20150704 19:40:53< pydsigner> Or 1000x1000
20150704 19:41:19< pydsigner> Since 999,999 is used by some code I've seen as an coordinate that's off-map
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20150704 19:53:29< shadowm> zookeeper: There used to be a bug with pathfinding on large maps near the editor's maximum size.
20150704 19:53:37< gfgtdf> pydsigner: there are also some other limitations, for example wml loops have a maximum of 65536 iterations, so things like "foreach tile in map" in wml wont work for sises much bigger than 200x200
20150704 19:54:04< shadowm> Also, everyone knows that large maps are not particularly fun.
20150704 19:57:31< zookeeper> i'm just wondering how big a map i'd need to support if i had to brute-force a certain kind of terrain graphics thing
20150704 19:58:53< pydsigner> gfgtdf: Good point
20150704 19:58:54< shadowm> There's a mainline macro that assumes that maps can't be larger than 999x999.
20150704 19:59:00< pydsigner> 256x256
20150704 19:59:21< pydsigner> shadowm: I've seen it
20150704 19:59:35< pydsigner> There's also UMC code like that, but that's much less important
20150704 19:59:45< pydsigner> Since they're controlling their own maps
20150704 19:59:48< shadowm> So I say just stick to 999. And if it somehow results in inefficiencies with small maps then that's a bug to report.
20150704 20:00:36< zookeeper> well, to clarify, i mean brute-forcing in a way where bigger map dimensions require more code
20150704 20:00:53< shadowm> Then your terrain graphics ruleset sucks.
20150704 20:00:58< zookeeper> of course
20150704 20:01:08< zookeeper> but there's no WML-side alternative
20150704 20:01:13< shadowm> Why does it depend on the map size?
20150704 20:02:03< zookeeper> i'll explain the whole thing:
20150704 20:02:09< shadowm> Even esoteric stuff like the rain overlay doesn't require knowledge of the map dimensions.
20150704 20:06:47< zookeeper> i have a nice 2-hex terrain graphic which tiles with itself, but naturally needs to be tiled consistently like this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63964618/wesnoth/water/tiling.png
20150704 20:07:34< zookeeper> well i'll just skip explaining the rest, because it doesn't matter
20150704 20:07:39< shadowm> Don't people normally use flags for that?
20150704 20:07:41< zookeeper> that's what i'm trying to do and currently it's impossible
20150704 20:07:55< zookeeper> ...except by hardcoding some coordinates to make sure the consistent pattern doesn't break
20150704 20:08:33< zookeeper> this is all about flags
20150704 20:08:44< zookeeper> it is impossible to lay out that flag pattern
20150704 20:09:24< shadowm> Okay, I see, it's about odd vs. even columns.
20150704 20:09:33< zookeeper> yeah, that's one way to simplify it
20150704 20:09:55< zookeeper> it's impossible because the builder does stuff per-terrain, like iterates over each terrain type and does the flag stuff
20150704 20:10:15< zookeeper> which means that if i have a whole map of that one terrain, it works, but if i insert one other terrain in some spots, the builder breaks the pattern
20150704 20:11:11< shadowm> It's not possible to set the required flags separately from the terrain match?
20150704 20:11:31< zookeeper> not without writing rules which operate only on hard-coded coordinates
20150704 20:11:39< shadowm> I.e. set odd/even column flags regardless of the underlying terrain.
20150704 20:11:55< zookeeper> that's one possible feature i've been pondering that would solve the problem
20150704 20:12:01< shadowm> Then have a separate rule that checks for those flags only with your custom terrain and applies the graphics accordingly.
20150704 20:12:41< zookeeper> that's what i've been trying, and it breaks due to the per-terrain builder thing
20150704 20:13:01< zookeeper> because it doesn't matter whether the rule cares about terrains, the builder code still does it per-terrain
20150704 20:13:24< zookeeper> around builder.cpp:1501
20150704 20:13:32< zookeeper> (1.12 src)
20150704 20:14:07< shadowm> The fie only has 1102 lines.
20150704 20:14:18< zookeeper> oops, 1051
20150704 20:18:49< zookeeper> the probably simplest solution code-wise would be to initially seed the whole map with "odd" and "even" flags, but not especially elegant i suppose
20150704 20:19:29< zookeeper> and it wouldn't help if you want to use >2-hex tiles
20150704 20:23:46< zookeeper> the most versatile solution from the WML side would be if you could use something like mod_x,mod_y=3,1 to place the rule at the third column of every row (3,1 and 6,1 and 9,1 etc etc)
20150704 20:24:11< zookeeper> (in contrast to the current way of placing the rule at a single hard-coded location with x,y)
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20150704 20:34:50< shadowm> ancestral: How is 1.13.1 going?
20150704 20:36:03< shadowm> You said you'get to it "today" June 30th through Thursday.
20150704 20:36:10< ancestral> That’s true
20150704 20:36:23< shadowm> If I'm not mistaken, it's currently the 4th of July, Saturday.
20150704 20:37:09< shadowm> I haven't heard anything about it and honestly I'm not very good at this slave-driver thing, prodding people every single day to make sure they are on track.
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20150704 20:40:36< shadowm> So, what do you think, ancestral? Should I try to be a little more aggressive in this regard and send periodic requests for status updates, or get a new OS X packager for the 1.13.x development series?
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20150704 20:43:48< ancestral> shadowm: I tried building here recently, and encountered a boost error
20150704 20:44:02< ancestral> Just a moment
20150704 20:44:05< shadowm> And naturally I only hear about it just now.
20150704 20:45:10< zookeeper> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows
20150704 20:45:11< zookeeper> "Extract it somewhere. You can put it for example in C:\external\. Add the following in the PATH variable: C:\external\dll"
20150704 20:45:29< zookeeper> what kind of sense does that make, considering the archive contains a dir called "external-VC12"?
20150704 20:46:15< zookeeper> should i add C:\external\external-VC12\dll or just C:\external\external-VC12 or what?
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20150704 20:46:57< shadowm> I'd interpret the instructions as though C:\external is the package's \external-VC12 directory.
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20150704 20:47:15< zookeeper> interesting idea, could be
20150704 20:47:35< shadowm> It's probably written that way either because whoever wrote it didn't care or it was actually named external at the time and the suffix was introduced later.
20150704 20:48:15< ancestral> shadowm: Do you have anyone else who would like to take on 1.13?
20150704 20:48:37< shadowm> Obviously not, unless mattsc wants me to waste more of his time.
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20150704 20:49:17< shadowm> I mean, let's be honest, there are the remaining developers:
20150704 20:50:06< ancestral> StandYourGround was PMing me with building Wesnoth, but I don’t know that he is enough up-to-speed
20150704 20:50:14< shadowm> shadowm (Debian, Windows 8.1 VM), gfgtdf (Windows), zookeeper (Windows), vultraz (Windows), Elvish_Hunter (Windows and maybe Linux).
20150704 20:50:46< shadowm> We don't have any developers on Apple OS X other than you and mattsc, who kind of doesn't count because of his volatile schedule.
20150704 20:50:57< ancestral> Right
20150704 20:51:21< shadowm> If there are build issues on OS X, we can't find out unless the OS X packager constantly reports them to us and makes sure we get them fixed with their help.
20150704 20:51:57< ancestral> Most of the issues are my fault
20150704 20:52:21< shadowm> Unlike Windows and Linux, which are constantly tested before release sans packaging issues (like 1.12.4a).
20150704 20:52:23< ancestral> Configuration issues, missing files or dependencies…
20150704 20:52:51< ancestral> I am re-downloading the compile stuff, I think that will make a difference here
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20150704 20:53:25< ancestral> Today is a holiday but nevertheless I will have a build for you tonight
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20150704 20:54:03< ancestral> I do not know if it will work for all versions of OS X, as mattsc’s build doesn’t work for me, and my build doesn’t work for him, and StandYourGround can’t run both (I think?)
20150704 20:54:05< shadowm> There's no need to do it *today* specifically.
20150704 20:54:09< ancestral> We’ve discussed this before
20150704 20:54:16< ancestral> I might as well get it done tonight
20150704 20:54:19< ancestral> I work tomorrow
20150704 20:54:19< shadowm> It doesn't matter as long as it gets done some day before 1.13.2.
20150704 20:54:45< shadowm> Preferably without me having to insist on it every single day.
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20150704 20:54:53< ancestral> Fine
20150704 20:54:57< ancestral> That’s fair
20150704 20:55:05< shadowm> And yes, StandYourGround is on a beta of the upcoming OS X release.
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20150704 20:55:46< shadowm> I think he's using his own builds because the released builds from either branch don't work for him? Or something like that.
20150704 20:55:56 * shadowm greps.
20150704 20:56:08< ancestral> Yes, likely because he is running a beta
20150704 20:56:10< shadowm> Also, I believe we are not supposed to know that he is on a beta of the upcoming release.
20150704 20:56:20< shadowm> Or talk about it publicly. Whatever, Apple, I don't care.
20150704 20:56:32< shadowm> Come sue me if you want. :p
20150704 20:56:34< ancestral> That’s misguided
20150704 20:56:46< ancestral> He’s just not allow to disclose information about the beta
20150704 20:56:48< ancestral> Anyway
20150704 20:56:55< ancestral> It’ll be a Public Beta this summer
20150704 20:58:06< shadowm> ./#wesnoth-dev.2015-06-15.log:20150615 23:38:31< StandYourGround> well, the official packages for 1,13 haven't worked for Yosemite or beyond, in my experience
20150704 20:58:25< shadowm> Okay, so I guess he didn't say anything about 1.12.x, only 1.13.0.
20150704 20:58:30< ancestral> Right
20150704 20:58:38< ancestral> 1.12 I’m not concerned about
20150704 20:58:41< ancestral> 1.13 I am concerned
20150704 20:58:57< ancestral> Most of, whenever development wraps up, that we won’t have a clue how to build it properly
20150704 20:59:11< ancestral> I can build it, for my system, and maybe other people running the same version as me
20150704 21:01:39< ancestral> I just hope we can find someone willing to figure out the fragmentation/library trouble, because it’s beyond what mattsc and I can figure out
20150704 21:02:14< ancestral> And I’m not delusional to expect someone not running a Mac to somehow figure it out
20150704 21:04:59< shadowm> zookeeper: Still no opinion on the portrait tutorial? I guess I'll bring it back up anyway.
20150704 21:05:11< shadowm> Just so people stop posting about it.
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20150704 21:05:40< zookeeper> shadowm, well this was supposed to be the opinion: <zookeeper> if we have no better tutorial than that, then i'd say bring it back
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20150704 21:06:19< shadowm> Well, we've never had any other tutorials, period.
20150704 21:07:16< shadowm> At least not since kitty's style became a de facto standard.
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20150704 21:17:29< shadowm> 09:32:02 shadowm@website:~/stuff$ sudo chmod -R g+rwX /srv/www/html/wiki-images
20150704 21:17:50 * shadowm grumble grumble mutter mutter
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20150704 21:27:25< zookeeper> oh man, someone really needs to start giving BOOST_PP_EXPAND_I enough parameters
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20150704 21:33:21< shadowm> Huh?
20150704 21:35:40< shadowm> zookeeper: Did you do a bad thing, or are those errors generated by existing code?
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20150704 21:38:35< zookeeper> latter
20150704 21:38:43< zookeeper> can't paste because it's in progress
20150704 21:39:02< zookeeper> ah, managed it anyway: warning C4003: not enough actual parameters for macro 'BOOST_PP_EXPAND_I'
20150704 21:39:09< zookeeper> hundreds or thousands of those
20150704 21:39:29< shadowm> What compiler are you using and where did you get the Boost files from?
20150704 21:39:47< shadowm> Oh, warnings, not errors.
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20150704 21:40:19< zookeeper> yes
20150704 21:40:42< zookeeper> visual studio 2013 and files from CompilingWesnothOnWindows (VC12.zip)
20150704 21:41:19< shadowm> You might want to bug whoever maintains those files.
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20150704 22:15:53< gfgtdf> i doubt that the one who maintains those files modifies those boost headers or does fixes to them. The best solution is mostlikeley to just disable that warning.
20150704 22:16:31< shadowm> No, but they might be able to see if updating to a newer Boost version would fix it.
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20150704 22:35:30< zookeeper> oh wow, it compiled
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20150704 23:17:06< zookeeper> shadowm, actually i think i _did_ figure out a way to set the flags
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20150704 23:17:38< zookeeper> i'm not sure how much of my code is redundant, but it looks like it's working... need to test it more though
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 05 00:00:00 2015