--- Log opened Mon Jul 20 00:00:19 2015
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20150720 02:45:47< shadowm> AI0867, ancestral, Elvish_Hunter, gfgtdf, Ivanovic, lipkab, loonycyborg, mattsc, Rhonda, Soliton, vultraz, zookeeper, anyone else who might be even remotely active and I forgot to mention: I have posted a draft for the project's official call for help to Moderators': http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=42885 Any and all constructive input is appreciated.
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20150720 07:07:05< zookeeper> is this some kind of new limitation that :cl doesn't list every scenario anymore, but seems to omits all branched scenarios (except the first one)?
20150720 07:07:23< zookeeper> i could swear i used to be able to get to any scenario with it
20150720 07:07:43< shadowm> Yes, gfgtdf said it's a consequence of the SP/MP unification project.
20150720 07:09:30< zookeeper> well, that's.... not so great
20150720 07:10:16< shadowm> I know, right? Perhaps some day (preferably before I start porting my content to 1.14) someone will figure out a fix for this major annoyance.
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20150720 07:16:28< aquileia> shadowm: I'd suggest  to change "be optimally experienced" --> "preferably be experienced", are you ok if I change it?
20150720 07:16:48< shadowm> vultraz, c74d: Weigh in. ^
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20150720 07:17:29< vultraz> Go ahead
20150720 07:18:25< aquileia> done
20150720 07:18:49< shadowm> I keep omitting you every time I need to list active developers.
20150720 07:18:59< shadowm> Do you consider yourself active?
20150720 07:19:10< zookeeper> oh darn, i just posted that
20150720 07:19:13< zookeeper> too late
20150720 07:20:01< aquileia> Well, I'd consider myself an active Visual Studio maintainer
20150720 07:20:46< shadowm> I'm sure Microsoft can maintain VS just fine.
20150720 07:21:05< shadowm> As for the project files, sure, okay. Do you know how to build Boost with mingw?
20150720 07:21:57< shadowm> I suspect you don't, but I thought I might ask just in case anyway.
20150720 07:21:57< aquileia> I could build it with mingw, but I'm currently using VC for that
20150720 07:22:13< vultraz> Could you build pangocairo?
20150720 07:22:19< shadowm> Okay, I guess you don't then.
20150720 07:22:36< shadowm> I'll ask other Internet people later then.
20150720 07:23:32< shadowm> Oh, and while you are here, which areas do you feel you can help people with if at all?
20150720 07:23:50< aquileia> vultraz: I tried once already, but had some issues with the libpng dependency IIRC,  could retry though
20150720 07:24:13< shadowm> gfgtdf, zookeeper, lipkab, Elvish_Hunter, mattsc (?): Same question.
20150720 07:24:20< vultraz> That would be great. See if it fixes our newline problem
20150720 07:24:54< shadowm> <https://gna.org/bugs/?21649> <- The bug in question.
20150720 07:25:26< shadowm> Hm, I don't think I've asked ancestral about it.
20150720 07:25:26< zookeeper> shadowm, i can at least help campaign maintainers by clobbering sense into them when they do things i disagree with
20150720 07:25:37< zookeeper> not sure if it always works though
20150720 07:25:57 * shadowm hands zookeeper the squeaky mallet.
20150720 07:26:03< zookeeper> ^_____^
20150720 07:26:04< shadowm> Wield it wisely.
20150720 07:26:34< aquileia> ... and wipe off all the blood if you've got the time ;)
20150720 07:27:12< shadowm> Blood? What blood? :p
20150720 07:27:22< shadowm> That's just tomato sauce.
20150720 07:30:38< zookeeper> shadowm, i presume you mean what areas i could help potential new developers in?
20150720 07:30:47< shadowm> Yes.
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20150720 07:32:13< zookeeper> you probably know my skillset pretty well, and/or which kind of things i like to impose my views on
20150720 07:33:04< shadowm> Well, WML and campaign maintenance I think?
20150720 07:33:56< zookeeper> yes
20150720 07:34:30< shadowm> Although, "WML" might be too broad a categorization. For example, I can deal with most WML features in single-player but I'm useless when it comes to dealing with MP-exclusive idiosyncrasies.
20150720 07:35:09< shadowm> Like, which actions are synchronized, how certain API semantics differ between networked and non-networked modes, etc.
20150720 07:36:24< zookeeper> WML maintenance, WML API design, scenario design and good practises, etc etc. but yeah all the synchronization business is pretty icky and i can't say i'm really up-to-date with that.
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20150720 08:53:51< shadowm> I wonder how one would write a WML snippet that yields one of two random values (i.e. a boolean value) with a defined chance for each value.
20150720 08:54:08< shadowm> Without doing something like {RANDOM yes,yes,no,no,no,no,no}, I mean.
20150720 09:05:10< zookeeper> uh, how about {RANDOM 0..100} and checking the result? :P
20150720 09:05:52< shadowm> Hm.
20150720 09:07:15< zookeeper> or would something like {RANDOM "0..35,36-100"} actually end up doing it the way you want? i don't know how exactly it works
20150720 09:07:36< shadowm> Somehow I don't think it's guaranteed that there's 75% chance that the result will be the first 75 possible values.
20150720 09:08:03< shadowm> *there's a
20150720 09:08:29< shadowm> But I may as well use that to avoid cracking my head open trying to understand the underlying maths.
20150720 09:25:11< zookeeper> shadowm, looked at the water yet?
20150720 09:53:08< shadowm> Not yet.
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20150720 10:10:20< zookeeper> okay. in any case, i guess i could clarify that i don't want that PR to be merged at any point, better to just commit the final versions only when it's deemed ready.
20150720 10:18:41< zookeeper> (if you want, then you can of course merge/commit the engine changes as you see fit separately)
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20150720 15:11:58< mattsc> shadowm: I guess I can probably help most with AI issues (concepts more so than the C++ code).
20150720 15:12:24< mattsc> I can also provide some assistance with building on OS X, SP WML and Lua questions, although I’d consider myself more a backup to others for those areas rather than the main goto person.
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20150720 21:26:04< shadowm> aquileia, gfgtdf, lipkab, Elvish_Hunter: Asking again: which areas do you feel you can help prospective contributors with if at all?
20150720 21:26:18< shadowm> *if any at all
20150720 21:29:22< gfgtdf> shadowm: most of my recent commits are eigher about mp relatd things (fixing OOS) or implemting lua (or wml) features. So think i could help peoples with that.
20150720 21:33:55< zookeeper> gfgtdf, so what's the problem with having all scenario branches in the :cl list? wouldn't it be easy and fast enough to just generate the list by recursively parsing through every scenario pointed to by the current scenario?
20150720 21:35:32< gfgtdf> zookeeper: what do you mean by 'pointed to' ? afaik we only allow only next_scenario= in a scenario
20150720 21:36:26< zookeeper> also in [endlevel]
20150720 21:37:50< zookeeper> which is what is used to implement branching, because naturally you can only have one scenario-level next_scenario
20150720 21:37:54< gfgtdf> zookeeper: that sonds very complicated, note that its for example possible to have variable substition in [endlevel] like [endlevel} next_scenario = $my_variable, or for example its possible taht people call [endlevel] form lua  like wesnoth.wml_actions.endlevel { next_scenario = ... }
20150720 21:38:44< zookeeper> true
20150720 21:38:51< gfgtdf> zookeeper: what happens in 1.12 is that basicly all [scenario]s are listed in the :cl dialog
20150720 21:39:40< gfgtdf> zookeeper: in 1.13 the [scenario] tags are converted (and i really dont know why) to [multiplayer] tags, so that it woudl now also show all the [multiplayer] maps if wed do it that way
20150720 21:40:03< zookeeper> right
20150720 21:40:44< gfgtdf> zookeeper: my pefered attempt to fix this would be to not convert [scenario] to [multiplayer] and see if taht braks something
20150720 21:41:27< zookeeper> yeah, i don't know anything about that stuff
20150720 21:42:49< gfgtdf> zookeeper: alterntiveley we coudl just fix this by listing all [multiplayer]/[scenario] anyways, note MULTIPLAYER is usually not defined in sp so it wouldnt add much aditional entries
20150720 21:43:12< gfgtdf> as most [multiplayer] are inside ifdef MULTIPLAYer
20150720 21:43:25< zookeeper> random idea: _if_ it can't be easily fixed, then a pretty solid workaround would be to allow scenario-level next_scenario to specify a list of all possible next scenarios so that :cl can work, but current functionality wouldn't change and it'd always pick the first item
20150720 21:44:12< gfgtdf> zookeeper: that woudl still mean that ou cannot go backwards with :cl
20150720 21:44:20< zookeeper> true
20150720 21:44:33< zookeeper> ...and that's an inconvenient regression as well
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 21 00:00:40 2015