--- Log opened Mon Jul 27 00:00:53 2015
20150727 00:13:12< aquileia> that's handy: git diff --name-status 1.13.0 HEAD data/
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20150727 01:00:59< helpmeup> https://gna.org/bugs/?13232\
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20150727 01:05:38< aquileia> shadowm: Not counting the binary, the changed vorbis dll's, and the translation folder (that is, counting data/, fonts/, images/, doc/manual/ and sounds/): 16.7 MB between 1.12.0 and current 1.12
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20150727 01:05:59< helpmeup> seems like a very fixable thing doesnt it?
20150727 01:06:08< aquileia> That is the total size of all changed files in these folders
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20150727 01:16:43< chaverma> i'm interested in helping with the python tools like wmllint. is there an existing discussion i should participate in?
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20150727 01:20:07< baegle> e\
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20150727 01:24:20< Yaiyan> chaverma, tetha's been looking at it a fair amount
20150727 01:24:30< Yaiyan> Might want to coordinate something with him when he's online
20150727 01:24:59< chaverma> sounds good
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20150727 01:32:48< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6841 (master - 6d64baa : Lipka Boldizsár): The build has errored.
20150727 01:32:48< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/72758477
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20150727 01:41:16< Portaljacker> hey!
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20150727 01:46:16< Portaljacker> so has this channel just surged in activity since the forum post?
20150727 01:50:05< helpmeup> seems like it
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20150727 01:55:25< vultraz> Portaljacker: definitely 
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20150727 01:56:00< Portaljacker> well i know seeing it on reddit is what got me here
20150727 01:56:25< Portaljacker> i had heard of the project but forgotten about it when i was thinking of working on an oss project in my free time
20150727 01:56:32< Portaljacker> but that post made the decision real easy
20150727 01:56:41< vultraz> :)
20150727 01:57:28< Portaljacker> well i wanted to work on a game
20150727 01:57:53< Portaljacker> and that i wanted to improve my c++ since i mostly used c# for game dev stuff. and now i'm doing java at work :P
20150727 02:00:51< vultraz> any particular area you'd like to work on?
20150727 02:01:10< vultraz> UI, AI, SDL, etc
20150727 02:02:11< ancestral> or areas with no acronyms?
20150727 02:02:29< vultraz> all hail acronyms!
20150727 02:03:07< ancestral> AHA
20150727 02:03:19< vultraz> aha indeed
20150727 02:06:02< Portaljacker> whoops, was eating supper
20150727 02:06:08< Portaljacker> it's 10PM and i just finished :P
20150727 02:06:23< Portaljacker> stupid part time job, thankfully i'll be done that soon and have a full weekend :D
20150727 02:06:33< Portaljacker> i'm not sure honestly
20150727 02:07:15< Portaljacker> i'm bug crunching at work too so i feel like this project will be complimentary in improving my skills
20150727 02:07:46< Portaljacker> i was going to ask if using visual studio community edition was fine but i just notticed it said it's for open source projects so i'm good!
20150727 02:09:20< vultraz> 2015? 
20150727 02:09:40< vultraz> I don't think we have anyone compiling with 2015 yet, will be good to know if it works
20150727 02:09:43< Portaljacker> i think so
20150727 02:09:48< Portaljacker> it shouldn't be too different
20150727 02:09:58< Portaljacker> last version i used was the last one xna worked natively in
20150727 02:10:12< Portaljacker> i think that's 2010?
20150727 02:10:52< Portaljacker> that's my point of reference since it's the last thing i used vs for
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20150727 02:28:44< Psenfilip> Hey I was just skimming through the logs and see you guys mention the halo bug. I remember I did a 1-2 line patch for that when I was going through the engine yesterday
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20150727 02:29:51< Psenfilip> Yaiyan: Did you guys get it fixed?
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20150727 02:44:24< aquileia> Portaljacker: Hi
20150727 02:44:46< aquileia> If you're planning to use Visual Studio, you might want to read http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows#Visual_Studio
20150727 02:45:51< Psenfilip> Yaiyan: Anyway... as far as I read, the halo manager and everything around it is poorly versed. The old int flag, NO_HALO code was marked as flawed but the fix was then a multilayer mess. IDK about older versions but as of now, given 1 or N halos on the screen, there is a pattern of multiples redraws and one of those are called with "invalid"  ac resulting in a new halo added to 0,0
20150727 02:46:32< Psenfilip> shadowm: FYI
20150727 02:47:56< Portaljacker> i think i have that bookmarked, but thanks aquileia!
20150727 02:48:15< Portaljacker> also the last few weeks is reminding me how much fun irc is
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20150727 02:48:38< Portaljacker> reddit dying is what drove me to try irc again :P
20150727 02:49:43< shadowm> Psenfilip: Halos use an archaic implementation that predates the current layered graphics rendering engine, yes.
20150727 02:49:59< Psenfilip> shadowm: Yaiyan: gotta work on those layers of indirection and make it so the halos are not redrawn like that. Meanwhile, unit_drawer:166 could be set to current unit position so that you can live with the flickering
20150727 02:50:02< shadowm> They, along with tooltips, don't play nice with a lot of things either (like GUI2 event loops).
20150727 02:50:12< aquileia> If you're using VC 2015 you'll have to build boost for your version, but the instructions are on that page as well. If you upload the resulting libboost*.lib libraries to a fork of the external repo, I'd be happy to add them in a branch
20150727 02:50:14< shadowm> (Tooltips and map labels and chat text.)
20150727 02:50:44< Portaljacker> will do once i figure all that out
20150727 02:51:06< Portaljacker> which will result in me asking lots of questions
20150727 02:51:12< Portaljacker> my git skills have atrophied
20150727 02:51:20< Portaljacker> which hasn't been helped by using svn at work
20150727 02:51:37< Psenfilip> shadowm: Gotta test if this would fit on all cases but that would mean: y_adjusted = y - height_adjusted; ac.unit_halo_ = halo_man.add(x, y_adjusted, ...
20150727 02:52:56< helpmeup> are there people out there who prefer svn
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20150727 02:54:24< Psenfilip> shadowm: I understand. The point was that it was potentially working with way simpler code, long after that halo manager and shared_ptrs came into existance. Sad
20150727 02:54:42< Portaljacker> i don't prefer svn
20150727 02:54:52< Portaljacker> but my work loves the centralized structure
20150727 02:55:06< Portaljacker> and they're super bureaucracy
20150727 02:55:32< helpmeup> yeah but there is no 'my work'
20150727 02:55:38< helpmeup> its just composed of people
20150727 02:55:50< helpmeup> so either someone is making a conciense decision out of preference
20150727 02:56:00< helpmeup> conscience*
20150727 02:56:06< helpmeup> whatever it is
20150727 02:56:31< helpmeup> or theyre staying with it because they feel resigned to it
20150727 02:57:08< helpmeup> conscious
20150727 02:57:11< helpmeup> jesus thats bad
20150727 02:57:16< Portaljacker> i work at lockheed martin, which means government contracts, which means lots of security, which is enforced by lots of bureaucracy :P
20150727 02:58:39< helpmeup> you work at an hq?
20150727 02:58:46< vultraz> And that translates into SVN how?
20150727 02:58:58< Portaljacker> well the point is they use svn because it's centralized
20150727 02:59:04< Portaljacker> so more control
20150727 02:59:12< vultraz> Git is also centralized
20150727 02:59:16< helpmeup> can i have a job im in dale city and know how to join irc channels
20150727 02:59:24< vultraz> It just happens you can withhold commits
20150727 02:59:29< vultraz> Before pushing them
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20150727 02:59:42< Portaljacker> all data has to be secured in a very specific way based on its level of being classified
20150727 03:00:23< Portaljacker> otherwise people could get millions of dollars in fines and many years jail time :P
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20150727 03:02:57< shadowm> 23:59:14 <vultraz> Git is also centralized
20150727 03:02:59< shadowm> No.
20150727 03:03:25< shadowm> Git is by definition a distributed VCS. It just happens to allow itself to be used in a more centralized fashion as well.
20150727 03:03:37< Portaljacker> exactly
20150727 03:03:45< shadowm> And, due to an obvious issue of trust, you'll want to have a designated upstream, most of the time.
20150727 03:03:47< Psenfilip> What does data security has to do with the file format being secured? You can theoretically achieve the same security over any bytes of data, doesn't matter if that is svn, bazaar, cvs or my-zip-files
20150727 03:04:18< Portaljacker> the other issue is that because the bureaucracy required to maintain security, changes can take forever
20150727 03:04:34< Portaljacker> and require good reasons to do so
20150727 03:04:50< Portaljacker> me as a lowly junior programmer doesn't have much influence
20150727 03:04:59< vultraz> It seems I keep running into people with important jobs on IRC...
20150727 03:05:02< Portaljacker> our team tends to be a bit better at using new stuff
20150727 03:05:21< Portaljacker> but that's because we're not working on military hardware
20150727 03:05:22< Psenfilip> vultraz: lol
20150727 03:05:37< Portaljacker> we make training software that simulates military hardware
20150727 03:07:30< vultraz> Must pay well
20150727 03:07:58< Portaljacker> for the area it's pretty good for someone out of university
20150727 03:08:32< helpmeup> not an hq then.
20150727 03:08:37< helpmeup> tx i guess
20150727 03:09:04< Portaljacker> not really
20150727 03:09:15< Portaljacker> i think the montreal hq is in dartmouth
20150727 03:09:20< Portaljacker> canada hq
20150727 03:09:22< Psenfilip> It is a fair assumption that there a lot of projects out there using svn. I still see it more often than not on the games industry
20150727 03:09:25< Portaljacker> i'm in montreal
20150727 03:10:04< helpmeup> lockheed has canadian sites?
20150727 03:10:08< Portaljacker> yep :P
20150727 03:10:18< helpmeup> how traitorous
20150727 03:10:42< Portaljacker> part of the company here works on an update program for a canadian battleship
20150727 03:10:54< Portaljacker> the team i'm on does training software
20150727 03:12:03< vultraz> canada has battleships?
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20150727 03:12:33< Portaljacker> really fucking old ones
20150727 03:12:57< Portaljacker> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax-class_frigate ok it's a frigate
20150727 03:15:01< Portaljacker> i think the highest salary for a junior programmer here is 62K canadian
20150727 03:15:24< Portaljacker> starting salary i mean
20150727 03:16:30< helpmeup> do you do any apache fortran work
20150727 03:16:40< Portaljacker> nope
20150727 03:16:41< helpmeup> uegh nvm your doing sims
20150727 03:16:50< helpmeup> need to learn to read
20150727 03:17:11< Portaljacker> yep
20150727 03:17:13< Portaljacker> in java
20150727 03:17:34< helpmeup> ah
20150727 03:17:43< helpmeup> the most secure language in the world
20150727 03:17:54< Portaljacker> yep :D
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20150727 03:18:33< Portaljacker> we're on java 7 now :P
20150727 03:18:58< Portaljacker> i would like to have java 8 just so i can use a bit of the functional stuff
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20150727 03:28:08< Portaljacker> so for wesnoth, are new users supposed to fork on github and do pull requests? i'm obscenely new to using git for a project more than 3 people (had no branches even)
20150727 03:30:37< vultraz> Yes, that is what you should do
20150727 03:30:48< Portaljacker> kk
20150727 03:31:17< Portaljacker> so i would just commit to master of my fork, then when i have a bug solved i submit a pull request?
20150727 03:31:26< vultraz> Yes
20150727 03:31:34< Portaljacker> cool
20150727 03:32:06< Portaljacker> it's a good thing, since i wouldn't want to clone a 2gb repo, only to find i needed to make a fork then clone that one >_>
20150727 03:32:17< Portaljacker> though i guess since the files would be the same it's not really an issue
20150727 03:32:43< ancestral> You can fork on GitHub.com without having to download it all
20150727 03:32:52< ancestral> if you prefer
20150727 03:33:43< Portaljacker> i mean, it would be ideal to actually download the code at some point :P
20150727 03:34:47< Portaljacker> ok, so i've forked it, how do i make sure it stays up to date with changes from the original?
20150727 03:35:27< Portaljacker> since pull would grab from my fork wouldn't it?
20150727 03:36:03< chaverma> Portaljacker: it depends on which repo you clone on your local machine
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20150727 03:36:19< Portaljacker> go on :P
20150727 03:36:21< chaverma> if you clone the mainline, pull will pull from mainline
20150727 03:36:37< chaverma> if you clone your fork, it pulls from your fork
20150727 03:36:40< Portaljacker> oh, so you're saying clone the main one
20150727 03:36:43< Portaljacker> then push to the fork?
20150727 03:36:47< chaverma> right
20150727 03:36:59< Portaljacker> darn
20150727 03:37:00< chaverma> you can manage these settings if you look up information on git remotes
20150727 03:37:21< Portaljacker> well i guess i cna just change the remotes in the file after i finish cloning my fork
20150727 03:37:27< aquileia> yes
20150727 03:37:38< Portaljacker> good thing i have fast internet
20150727 03:38:38< aquileia> You can even have separate repos for push and pull (e.g. pull from upstream, push to your fork)
20150727 03:38:53< Portaljacker> true
20150727 03:39:02< Portaljacker> but just having seperate remotes would work too
20150727 03:39:13< chaverma> god i hate that
20150727 03:39:26< Portaljacker> ?
20150727 03:39:37< chaverma> having separate push/pull urls
20150727 03:39:39< chaverma> i don't know why but it seems so unintuitive
20150727 03:39:59< Portaljacker> i mean if you're the only one pushing to that remote then it'd be fine
20150727 03:40:12< chaverma> nah it won't mess up your repo
20150727 03:40:12< Portaljacker> and issue only arises if there are multiple contributors to that remote
20150727 03:40:28< aquileia> zookeeper: I added a paragraph here on the .vcproj / .vcxproj update issue: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows#Updating_VCx_from_VC9
20150727 03:40:32< chaverma> but i've had to debug other people's git issues and i have a hard time figuring that shit out
20150727 03:40:42< chaverma> don't mind me, just ranting haha
20150727 03:40:59< Portaljacker> plus if i need to pull from my fork for some reason, like being on another pc, then i just do git pull [remote-url]
20150727 03:41:10< chaverma> correct
20150727 03:41:29< Portaljacker> i miss how powerful git is
20150727 03:41:48< Portaljacker> i almost want to have git for the svn repo
20150727 03:41:57< Portaljacker> that way i can operate how i wish locally
20150727 03:42:06< Portaljacker> but i would need to make a case for it
20150727 03:42:23< chaverma> git-svn exists
20150727 03:42:26< Portaljacker> i know
20150727 03:42:36< Portaljacker> but i need a practical case for me having seperate software
20150727 03:42:40< aquileia> chaverma: I set it up that way back when I didn't have commit rights to upstream, so it was the most elegant solution
20150727 03:42:43< chaverma> you aren't allowed to install it?
20150727 03:43:00< Portaljacker> no way in hell
20150727 03:43:05< chaverma> brutal
20150727 03:43:07< Portaljacker> the license has to be approved
20150727 03:43:19< Portaljacker> then the software has to be cleared to install
20150727 03:43:43< Portaljacker> every new version number of anything has to be approved
20150727 03:44:08< chaverma> aquileia: absolutely true. even when i can't write the mainline, i simply like knowing which remotes are which and not have to do any remembering
20150727 03:44:20< chaverma> personal preference
20150727 03:44:37< Portaljacker> i mean if i start knowing my push is my fork, and pull is the main one it's not hard
20150727 03:44:44< Portaljacker> as long as i don't change it constantly
20150727 03:45:13< chaverma> there may also be a day when you add another remote
20150727 03:45:25< chaverma> then it'll get more complicated
20150727 03:46:53< Portaljacker> but then i'd be juggling remotes anyway
20150727 03:47:03< Portaljacker> and you can give them aliases
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20150727 03:47:18< Portaljacker> plus if i had two locals
20150727 03:47:28< Portaljacker> i'd be pulling from another repo anyway
20150727 03:47:34< Portaljacker> just local rather than remote
20150727 03:48:43< Portaljacker> in the end it's the same issue
20150727 03:48:48< Portaljacker> what should exist
20150727 03:48:56< Portaljacker> is the ability to pull to your fork on the website
20150727 03:49:24< Portaljacker> since they already maintain the pull relationship for the other direction
20150727 03:49:25< chaverma> github doesn't support this?
20150727 03:49:31< Portaljacker> maybe they do?
20150727 03:49:38< chaverma> atlassian stash supports it, they call it "fork syncing"
20150727 03:49:44< Portaljacker> i need to check
20150727 03:49:54< chaverma> all that does it keep a mapping between named branches
20150727 03:50:00< chaverma> and keeps them up to date
20150727 03:50:03< Portaljacker> found it
20150727 03:50:04< Portaljacker> https://help.github.com/articles/syncing-a-fork/
20150727 03:50:43< Portaljacker> so i guess no need to change remotes
20150727 03:50:51< Portaljacker> just clone my fork, then follow those instructions
20150727 03:53:21< chaverma> generally i haven't needed this feature
20150727 03:53:45< Portaljacker> why not? wouldn't you need to keep up to date with new changes?
20150727 03:53:54< chaverma> tracking branch
20150727 03:54:00< Portaljacker> ?
20150727 03:54:38< chaverma> https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Branching-Remote-Branches#Tracking-Branches
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20150727 03:55:13< chaverma> on your local clone you set up a tracking branch for a given branch
20150727 03:55:27< chaverma> e.g. master should track origin/master
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20150727 03:55:45< chaverma> when you fetch, it will notify you if you are out of date so you can pull/rebase
20150727 03:56:17< Portaljacker> isn't upstream/master basically the tracking branch then?
20150727 03:56:22< Portaljacker> from the link i posted?
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20150727 03:57:09< chaverma> it's not clear that there's an ongoing process here
20150727 03:57:10< chaverma> so i don't know
20150727 03:57:48< Portaljacker> i dunno, upstream/master represents origin/master from the main repo
20150727 03:58:33< Portaljacker> so you would just need to fetch upstream, then merge upstream/master with your master branch locally
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20150727 04:01:04< Portaljacker> i'm also asuming when i make a pull request, i chose which commits to include in it right? that way i can ignore any merges from the main repo into my fork?
20150727 04:01:24< chaverma> you can't cherry-pick when you make a PR
20150727 04:01:33< chaverma> but you can pick the branch
20150727 04:01:54< chaverma> also to avoid those junk merge commits, use rebase
20150727 04:01:58< vultraz> Pull requests are made by branch-to-branch comparison
20150727 04:02:01< chaverma> e.g., git pull --rebase
20150727 04:02:58< Portaljacker> what does rebase do exactly?
20150727 04:03:25< Portaljacker> i swear i need to do one of those interactive git tutorials just to relearn git and learn the stuff i missed
20150727 04:03:27< chaverma> rewrites history
20150727 04:03:39< Portaljacker> ah
20150727 04:03:51< chaverma> in short, it rewinds to the most recent common commit, then replays your commits on top
20150727 04:04:00< Portaljacker> so it makes it that previous comits act as if those changes exist?
20150727 04:04:03< Portaljacker> ok
20150727 04:04:06< Portaljacker> makes sense
20150727 04:04:15< chaverma> there's more to it in the general case, but that's what it does in this context
20150727 04:04:22< Portaljacker> so it makes it as if your commit happened after the edits
20150727 04:04:25< chaverma> correct
20150727 04:04:31< Portaljacker> cool
20150727 04:04:40< chaverma> if there are conflicts, you resolve them in your rewritten commits
20150727 04:05:30< Portaljacker> that's rather cool
20150727 04:06:04< Portaljacker> but i guess i never got to use that because we were effectively just merging branches when we used it at school
20150727 04:07:37< chaverma> yeah the single user workflow omits a lot of complexity
20150727 04:07:51< Portaljacker> i mean we were 3 people
20150727 04:08:01< Portaljacker> but we effectively worked on sepeate parts of the code
20150727 04:08:07< Portaljacker> so not really any issues
20150727 04:09:05< Portaljacker> i mean you can avoid rebasing by pulling the master to the topic branch, then merging the topic branch to master
20150727 04:09:07< Portaljacker> wait...
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20150727 04:09:16< Portaljacker> no that would still have all that other stuff in the commit
20150727 04:09:18< Portaljacker> >_>
20150727 04:09:44< Portaljacker> that only would work if i was working on the original repo
20150727 04:10:32< Yaiyan> psenfilip, probably best if you get your patch working then, I'm still working my way through how everything's fitting together
20150727 04:11:48< Portaljacker> so if i rebased without any commits in my fork, it would just update my repo?
20150727 04:13:36< chaverma> you mean git pull --rebase?
20150727 04:13:43< chaverma> yes
20150727 04:13:59< chaverma> it would be the same as a simple git pull
20150727 04:14:18< chaverma> btw: git pull <=> git fetch && git merge
20150727 04:14:32< chaverma> git pull --rebase <=> git fetch && git rebase
20150727 04:15:23< Portaljacker> makes sense
20150727 04:15:56< Portaljacker> so in my case it would be git pull --rebase upstream/master
20150727 04:16:06< Portaljacker> while in my own master branch
20150727 04:17:06< chaverma> if your tracking branch is set, you won't have to specify the remote brach
20150727 04:17:19< chaverma> there are some cases when it sets up the tracking branch for you
20150727 04:17:29< Portaljacker> i'm wondering if github fork is one of them
20150727 04:18:10< chaverma> tracking branches are a 1:1 mapping between branches so that doesn't quite apply
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20150727 04:20:47< Portaljacker> so making upstream/master a tracking branch would make git pull --rebase in master pull from the upstream version after updating said upstream version?
20150727 04:22:43< Portaljacker> since calling pull on upstream/origin would fetch that branch, then the --rebase would rebase the current branch with that branch
20150727 04:22:46< Portaljacker> right? :P
20150727 04:23:18< chaverma> yup
20150727 04:23:26< Portaljacker> kk
20150727 04:23:28< Portaljacker> so not too bad
20150727 04:26:45< Portaljacker> ah, in my case it's not upstream/master, it's wesnoth
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20150727 04:27:03< Portaljacker> or wesnoth/master
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20150727 04:29:48< Portaljacker> i'll be learning this slowly i guess
20150727 04:29:48< chaverma> heh
20150727 04:32:02< Portaljacker> also i'd like to join the mailing list, but is there a good way to organize emails from one? last time i joined one my inbox was chaos
20150727 04:32:08< Portaljacker> i'm using gmail if that helps
20150727 04:33:13< Portaljacker> because i'm assuming the mailing list is rather important :P
20150727 04:33:21< shadowm> Yes, there's an easy way.
20150727 04:33:56< shadowm> I don't quite remember how it goes, but mostly you just create a new label, and an accompanying filter that moves incoming emails from the ML to that label.
20150727 04:34:05< Portaljacker> makes sense
20150727 04:34:37< Portaljacker> searched "gmail mailing list label" and got this: http://lifehacker.com/5780132/gmail-smart-labels-are-automatic-inbox-filters-for-mass-messages
20150727 04:34:39< Portaljacker> seems helpful
20150727 04:34:59< Portaljacker> wait no
20150727 04:35:00< Portaljacker> damn it
20150727 04:35:07< Portaljacker> it's those stupid 3 labels >_>
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20150727 04:38:04< shadowm> Portaljacker: Basically, after subscribing, when you get an email from the ML you should be able to do this when you click on the small arrow thingy: http://i.imgur.com/KItVfPu.png
20150727 04:38:19< shadowm> There's a "Filter messages from this mailing list" option.
20150727 04:38:51< shadowm> That'll give you search results, and the option to create a new filter from the search.
20150727 04:39:23< shadowm> There you can select options like Apply a label (which you can create right there) and skip the inbox.
20150727 04:39:49< Portaljacker> thanks
20150727 04:40:03< Portaljacker> i wanted to subscribe, but also not have it take over my notifications
20150727 04:40:12< Portaljacker> i know that a mailing list is important
20150727 04:41:25< Portaljacker> since i'm filtering i guess the daily digest isn't helpful
20150727 04:42:13< shadowm> I don't recommend using digests, it's a pain to reply to posts with those.
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20150727 04:43:32< Portaljacker> mime or plain text?
20150727 04:43:44< Portaljacker> i have no idea honestly
20150727 04:44:44< Portaljacker> so my filter just needs to have this condition? "Has the words list:"wesnoth-dev.gna.org" "?
20150727 04:45:04< shadowm> Yes.
20150727 04:46:02< Portaljacker> skip inbox to avoid notifications on my phone, apply label wesnoth and never send to spam :P
20150727 04:46:17< shadowm> That should work.
20150727 04:46:38< shadowm> It's still fairly low-traffic nowadays, as you can see: https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/
20150727 04:46:58< Portaljacker> 3 posts all month
20150727 04:47:00< Portaljacker> sounds like it
20150727 04:47:20< Portaljacker> so what does and does not go in the mailing list?
20150727 04:47:23< Portaljacker> i've never used one
20150727 04:49:55< Portaljacker> also would chosing mime type or plain text offer any real differences for these emails?
20150727 04:50:45< shadowm> Ehhhhh.
20150727 04:51:04< shadowm> I don't remember how that works. I don't like using the mailing list much, myself.
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20150727 04:51:11< Portaljacker> the most formatting needed is done automatically by gmail anyway
20150727 04:51:22< Portaljacker> like putting a line down the side of a quoted email
20150727 04:51:34< Portaljacker> so what is it even for? :P
20150727 04:53:33< shadowm> Wesnoth has been around since 2003 blah blah blah. We've had a lot of developers come by and until last year, most of the seniors were into using the mailing list for discussing stuff that would be easily lost to time in IRC, like release schedules and stuff.
20150727 04:53:58< Portaljacker> i guess it's good to have for important stuff
20150727 04:54:06< Portaljacker> but day to day can be done in irc
20150727 04:54:43< shadowm> Most importantly, we always "discuss" changes to Wesnoth's dependencies on the mailing list.
20150727 04:55:01< Portaljacker> that's not a bad idea
20150727 04:55:03< shadowm> New libraries, version requirement changes, etc.
20150727 04:55:23< Portaljacker> anything that would be in a meeting at a company should be in the mailing list :P
20150727 04:55:23< shadowm> This is in part for the benefit of packagers, but also for developers who are stuck with crummy toolchains and stuff.
20150727 04:55:35< shadowm> Yeah, pretty much.
20150727 04:55:50< Portaljacker> irc is for the normal everyday convos you have in the office :P
20150727 04:56:31< Portaljacker> anyway, i must go, work tomorrow morning and my alarm goes off in 6 hours
20150727 04:57:05< Portaljacker> thanks for the help, slowly i'll read through the wiki pages and such
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20150727 05:30:45< Jozrael> Anyone here got fantastic grammar?
20150727 05:33:55< chaverma> in english, sure
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20150727 05:46:51< zookeeper> so... how is one supposed to test PR's? by pulling from the fork+branch from which it was made? if so, then how do i clean my clone from those commits afterwards, do i just have to reset?
20150727 05:48:33< chaverma> you can checkout someone else's work as a branch
20150727 05:49:40< shadowm> zookeeper: Preferably, you should create a new local branch you will use as the base where you'll merge the fork+branch's commits.
20150727 05:50:20< shadowm> So once you have your local branch, pull the PR, do whatever you need to do, and then you can go back to whatever local branch(es) you usually work with, and optionally delete the PR testing branch.
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20150727 05:50:45< shadowm> GitHub has command line-oriented instructions to this end in the PR pages.
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20150727 05:55:48< zookeeper> right
20150727 05:56:19< shadowm> There are other ways, but that's probably the simplest for you.
20150727 05:56:29< shadowm> Using a GUI and all.
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20150727 06:01:10< zookeeper> stupid git. now i created a new branch, but it's nowhere to be seen.
20150727 06:01:27< shadowm> s/git/GUI/
20150727 06:03:13< zookeeper> now it's there all of a sudden
20150727 06:03:30< zookeeper> i didn't _do_ anything in between, i just entered that and some other dialogs a few times
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20150727 06:09:34< zookeeper> oh how typical
20150727 06:09:36< zookeeper> "Failed to check out branch because because local changes would be overwritten"
20150727 06:10:10< zookeeper> i guess it doesn't care whether i have local changes in any of the affected files or not, because i don't
20150727 06:10:25< chaverma> yeah there are some commands that are picky like that
20150727 06:10:50< shadowm> I have that happen sometimes and sometimes it just checks out trees even if I have local changes.
20150727 06:11:12< chaverma> just stash 'em
20150727 06:12:39< zookeeper> easier to just copy the files over manually and then ignore any complex PR's in the future
20150727 06:13:33< shadowm> Why can't you just stash them and then reapply the stash if needed? -.-
20150727 06:14:09< chaverma> git stash && git stash checkout <whatever> && git stash pop
20150727 06:14:14< zookeeper> i don't trust stashing because it's failed in the past
20150727 06:14:21< shadowm> He uses a GUI client, not the command line.
20150727 06:14:29< chaverma> ah
20150727 06:14:41< chaverma> which gui client?
20150727 06:15:07< zookeeper> tortoisegit usually
20150727 06:15:12< shadowm> Honestly, this blackbox approach to things is what got us here. :\
20150727 06:15:43< shadowm> I mean more generally, not with Git in particular.
20150727 06:15:57< zookeeper> nah, it's always git's fault
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20150727 06:20:25< legoktm> if  you add .patch to a github pull request url, it gives it to you in git's mailbox patch format. wget that, and then "git am blah.patch" to apply it
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20150727 06:27:42< zookeeper> well, aquileia's file copy fix didn't work so i can't compile, and i'd need to compile to be able to test anyway
20150727 06:28:43< zookeeper> i guess i can copy the files over to my fork's clone which i haven't updated so it'll still work with the build i have from when compilation still worked
20150727 06:29:21< vultraz> shadowm: do you still want me to look at the water?
20150727 06:29:26< zookeeper> i thought computers are supposed to make things easier...
20150727 06:30:01< shadowm> vultraz: Yes.
20150727 06:30:09< Aginor> zookeeper: that's a lie perpetrated by people who make money by selling support
20150727 06:30:14< shadowm> Remember, deep only, not shallow.
20150727 06:31:13< Aginor> I'm doing a git clone at the moment, is there any nice little c++ bugs for me to cut my teeth on? Or should I just pick something that doesn't look too horrid from the tracker?
20150727 06:31:54< vultraz> Aginor: the latter is probably the best way
20150727 06:32:20< Aginor> vultraz: ok, thanks :)
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20150727 06:39:24< vultraz> zookeeper, shadowm: looks fine to me
20150727 06:40:41< shadowm> I still think it's too desaturated.
20150727 06:42:08< vultraz> It's fine
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20150727 06:57:49< Ryckes> Thanks shadowm, I used pdflatex as Yaiyan said and it seemed to work
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20150727 07:04:48< Jozrael> Oh man
20150727 07:04:59< Jozrael> Whoever rewrote AToTB did a good job 
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20150727 07:17:20< irker144> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master da6e14910066 / / (7 files in 3 dirs): Updated wesnoth icon image by Sgt. Groovy http://git.io/vYwB0
20150727 07:18:40< vultraz> I've stashed the large 500x500 versions in icons/
20150727 07:19:11< shadowm> Was that a good idea?
20150727 07:19:39< shadowm> Oh well, it's only 0.3 MiB.
20150727 07:19:47< ancestral> 512 x 512 is better than 500 x 500
20150727 07:19:50< shadowm> Or 0.25 or so.
20150727 07:20:02< ancestral> for various reasons
20150727 07:20:04< shadowm> ancestral is correct.
20150727 07:20:34< zookeeper> do any of those reasons actually apply?
20150727 07:20:48< shadowm> For icons, yes.
20150727 07:21:06< ancestral> (Even if it must be 12 transparent pixels around it, although when scaling between versions, maybe it wouldn’t be super clean)
20150727 07:21:29< zookeeper> but it's not an icon
20150727 07:21:35< ancestral> But it could be
20150727 07:21:40< shadowm> It is an icon.
20150727 07:21:46< ancestral> OS X will take icons up to 512 x 512 in fact
20150727 07:21:56< ancestral> Think ahead here guys
20150727 07:22:01< shadowm> Your Wesnoth exe should have the shield and swords icon.
20150727 07:22:16< shadowm> Someone just needs to update the .ico files for Windows.
20150727 07:22:21< ancestral> Displays with higher dpi will be the norm in the coming years
20150727 07:22:35< shadowm> In theory this is doable with the GIMP but I've never really looked into it.
20150727 07:23:39< zookeeper> are you telling me this icons/wesnoth-logo-big.png will actually be used as an icon in some context?
20150727 07:24:12< vultraz> The first large version looked a little more 'clear' than the latter, as if the latter had been scaled slightly, but the latter had a better defined border so I used that one
20150727 07:24:19< shadowm> That seems to be what Jetrel and vultraz want, yes.
20150727 07:24:26< vultraz> If ancestral thinks I need to add a 12px buffer 
20150727 07:24:28< vultraz> I can do it
20150727 07:24:37< ancestral> Technically, 6 px
20150727 07:24:45< ancestral> So it adds up to 512 x 512, but
20150727 07:24:55< ancestral> alternatively you could scale it
20150727 07:25:00< zookeeper> did you run it through an optimizer?
20150727 07:25:01< ancestral> I don’t know which would be better
20150727 07:25:18< ancestral> I’d be more than willing to test
20150727 07:25:42< vultraz> I didn't optimize anything
20150727 07:25:45< shadowm> * processing ./wesnoth-logo-big.png (nice = 19)... saved: 12520 bytes, total saved: 13 KiB
20150727 07:26:15< Jetrel> ancestral:  I suspect modern icon-builders (like XCode has) are fairly smart about this stuff, but I could be wrong
20150727 07:26:18< shadowm> This is the kind of gain I wouldn't bother with.
20150727 07:26:23< zookeeper> agreed
20150727 07:27:04< ancestral> vultraz: Okay, hold off for now
20150727 07:27:33< ancestral> We’ll table the 512 x 512 size for later after real world testing (if needed)
20150727 07:28:57< vultraz> alright
20150727 07:29:12< shadowm> Windows uses icons up to 256x256 in size on 96 dpi screens, will scale by 200% on 192 dpi.
20150727 07:30:01< shadowm> The standard sizes are thus 16x16, 32x32, 48x48, and 256x256.
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20150727 07:30:48< ancestral> Technically, OS X supports 1024 x 1024 at 144 dpi :-P
20150727 07:31:31< shadowm> Of course, it's not usually feasible to just take a 256x256 icon and scale it down to 16x16, you lose details and often the major features need to be altered slightly for small sizes and textures simplified.
20150727 07:31:41< ancestral> Correct ^
20150727 07:31:50< shadowm> So most of the time you'll find that 16x16 icons are actually produced separately.
20150727 07:32:21< shadowm> Naturally, there is a whole page on this stuff: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn742485%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
20150727 07:32:39< vultraz> can someone update the localization template in resources?
20150727 07:32:46< vultraz> logo localization*
20150727 07:33:05< shadowm> Yes, you.
20150727 07:33:23< vultraz> I don't have a clone of that
20150727 07:33:30< ancestral> https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/Designing.html
20150727 07:33:32< shadowm> Then make a clone.
20150727 07:33:51< shadowm> Come on vultraz, you have better net-tubes than me now.
20150727 07:34:19< shadowm> I also don't want to be remembered as the guy who gave those 3 people still working on logos for 1.12.x a hard time.
20150727 07:35:18< vultraz> Speaking of which, someone needs to inform the translators of the need to rerender their logos
20150727 07:35:50< shadowm> I think we should let this idea simmer for a while instead.
20150727 07:36:21< vultraz> Well, I'll deal with the english logo at least
20150727 07:36:42< shadowm> I hope you will do a better job than I did with the Spanish translation logo then.
20150727 07:37:33< shadowm> So yeah, good luck getting the metrics right. :p
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20150727 07:39:42< ancestral> The logos, is it a composite image+text, or just the text, which is then layered on top of the image?
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20150727 07:40:12< shadowm> It's all part of the same image.
20150727 07:40:17< ancestral> Oh yuck
20150727 07:40:48< ancestral> Does it need to be?
20150727 07:41:16< shadowm> Hard to say.
20150727 07:41:34< ancestral> Let’s say someone decides to tweak the brightness or color of the logo image in 6 months. All the translated logos would have be re-rendered.
20150727 07:41:35< shadowm> THe problem is centering the text on the shield
20150727 07:41:37< vultraz> If we switched to a layered system this would prevent this having to happen again
20150727 07:41:51< ancestral> ^
20150727 07:41:59< shadowm> The problem is more specifically allowing the translators to decide exactly how the text is centered on the shield.
20150727 07:42:35< ancestral> Sure, and obviously that will change now with the new logo (metrics not the same) but if it were layered, two things
20150727 07:42:49< vultraz> can't the translators can render the text with a shield as reference, then delete it before shipping, as long as the reference is the same as the blit surface dimensions?
20150727 07:42:52< shadowm> I'm not entirely sure if it'd be enough to have the text layer dictate the cell's dimensions.
20150727 07:43:33< ancestral> 1) if it changed significantly where the centering was no longer perfect, at least we’d have the new logo even if the text wasn’t perfect  2) small changes to the logo could be done independently
20150727 07:43:35< shadowm> Here's an idea: let's try it out.
20150727 07:43:49< shadowm> This thing can be done with our toolkit already.
20150727 07:44:14< shadowm> Just grab the current cell holding the logo in the title screen, and instead of an image or whatever other widget is currently occupying that cell, slap a stacked_widget on it.
20150727 07:44:26< shadowm> Make the first layer be the shield, and the second layer be the text.
20150727 07:44:45< shadowm> Both layers should use horizontal_grow,vertical_grow = yes,yes.
20150727 07:45:49< shadowm> Of course, we'll need the English text rendering to be done before trying this out.
20150727 07:46:07< ancestral> Yeah, that’s what I was wondering about
20150727 07:46:09< vultraz> Working on it as we speak
20150727 07:46:19< shadowm> Take your time.
20150727 07:46:38< shadowm> I'm not going to release 1.13.2 tomorrow or anything. :p
20150727 07:46:46< ancestral> …Imagine if we had a press kit one day
20150727 07:48:05< shadowm> vultraz: Also, you may have to tweak the text coloring a bit sine the new shield seems more saturated than the old one.
20150727 07:48:34< ancestral> Are we using sRGB on everything?
20150727 07:48:43< ancestral> Just curious
20150727 07:48:46< vultraz> Hm... it says to scale the text to 80%w and 120%h
20150727 07:49:47< shadowm> Color profiles.
20150727 07:50:20 * shadowm nopes out of here.
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20150727 07:52:59< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6849 (master - da6e149 : Charles Dang): The build passed.
20150727 07:53:00< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/72787248
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20150727 07:59:19< shadowm> But yeah the answer is... yes? I don't know? What's a color space and why should I care about this stuff when I just want to draw miniature wizards and soliders. -.-
20150727 08:00:06< shadowm> I've tried to understand before, but the subject only ever manages to give me a headache.
20150727 08:01:13< shadowm> But if it helps, wesnoth-optipng runs convert -strip on files.
20150727 08:01:43< shadowm> It's still subject to size reduction checks, though.
20150727 08:02:21< shadowm> I figure that if you really wanted to know you could check with a simple oneliner whether we have any images with profile information so we can know where to aim the cannon at.
20150727 08:03:02< ancestral> Jetrel, should we care?
20150727 08:03:17< ancestral> Color profiles for these things
20150727 08:03:40< Jetrel> Nah, we'd prefer to strip color profiles whenever possible.
20150727 08:03:53< ancestral> Alrighty then, works for me
20150727 08:04:34< Jetrel> shadowm:  tl;dr explanation is that the whole thing's like a big coefficient on the actual colors stored in the file.  I remember when I was a kid, I saw some things that really evidenced to me why such a thing is actually necessary
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20150727 08:04:58< zookeeper> WRT translated icons, you could probably even semi-automatically strip the current shield out of them to produce text-only icons
20150727 08:05:15< Jetrel> Back in the day, screens and printers were hilariously inconsistent in manufacture and color-consistency.
20150727 08:05:58< Jetrel> I remember sitting in a computer lab, seeing 20 of the same screen from different manufacturers, and noticing several of them had noticeably different color-biases;  one more reddish, a few more greenish, etc.
20150727 08:06:02< shadowm> Well, even today, my monitor does not display colors the same way as my laptop, so I can see the value in that... as the operating system's sort of misguided responsibility.
20150727 08:06:30< Jetrel> Yeah - basically they were like "well, gee, we can wait 20 years for the hardware guys to get their shit together, orr...... we can patch over this problem with software".
20150727 08:06:58< ancestral> zookeeper: My concern would be if there is any anti-aliasing between the shield and the text that might be harder to reconcile
20150727 08:07:02< Aginor> you need to calibrate the OS/scann too though
20150727 08:07:12< Aginor> s/scann/screen/
20150727 08:07:32< Aginor> but unless you're doing print work, why bother :D
20150727 08:07:42< shadowm> Before I gave up on the subject I saw mentions of colorimeters and stuff that I haven't ever seen IRL.
20150727 08:08:02< Jetrel> Yeah.
20150727 08:08:25< zookeeper> ancestral, sure, there might be, but it might be minor enough to not be visible (especially when the new shield would be drawn behind it anyway)
20150727 08:08:32< Jetrel> The problem is for the system to work you have to actually find out what the color cast of your machine is.  Is it more greenish, reddish, etc?
20150727 08:09:01< ancestral> Very quick and barely dirty. I like it.
20150727 08:09:15< Jetrel> The better way to solve this is to use a hardware light detector device called a "colorimeter".
20150727 08:09:48< Jetrel> Nobody actually has these besides a few gonzo printing companies or pro photographers.
20150727 08:10:07< shadowm> ancestral: The procedure we use for translating the logo requires us to rasterize the text during the production process, not for rendering, so any smart AA (that Pango/Cairo/the GIMP doesn't do anyway) is lost anyway.
20150727 08:10:51< Jetrel> The realistic way for the rest of the people interested in actually bothering is to run a quick "quiz" program on your computer which does a bunch of side-by-side comparisons you have to answer, which they've worked out as a way of loosely figuring out what your monitor works like.
20150727 08:11:00< shadowm> And this is how bad the GIMP is about AA when given an adequately crappy back end: https://twitter.com/shikadilord/status/601601691734122496
20150727 08:11:27< ancestral> “Squint your eyes and choose the level where the object is just barely visible with the background”
20150727 08:11:51< Jetrel> What happens if you don't even bother with that?  Well, then the color profile on your computer's basically meaningless or generic, and anything you output with an attached color profile - that extra data's bogus.
20150727 08:11:51< shadowm> (It's supposed to be white-on-white text.)
20150727 08:12:32< zookeeper> where, if anywhere, would i find a same-size copy of the shield used in the titlescreen logo (or a layered version of the image)?
20150727 08:13:50< zookeeper> Elvish_Hunter, p.s. swarm affects strikes, not damage
20150727 08:13:55< Jetrel> Ultimately color profiles are just supposed to be a statement like "since the source computer this came from had a screen that was 10% too green, when you load this image, de-green it by 10%".  That's all they are, in a simplified way of speaking
20150727 08:14:23< shadowm> Hm.
20150727 08:14:53< Elvish_Hunter> zookeeper: right, I accidentally swapped the words. Sorry
20150727 08:17:47< shadowm> http://i.imgur.com/IZTFSsp.png
20150727 08:19:05< Jetrel> http://jetrel.wesnoth.org/pile/inventory-screen-parchment3.png
20150727 08:19:11< Jetrel> herp
20150727 08:19:19< Jetrel> wrong channel. :U
20150727 08:19:35< shadowm> Elvish_Hunter: You are an add-ons maintainer wth are you using 1.12.2.
20150727 08:19:57< shadowm> Upgrade to 1.12.4 this moment or I'll revoke your gold membership.
20150727 08:23:52< ancestral> Thank goodness we don’t have Terms and Conditions that change every time that users have to acknowledge
20150727 08:31:15< vultraz> shadowm, Jetrel: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/newlogo%20english%20render.png
20150727 08:31:57< Jetrel> vultraz:  the overlaid lettering needs to have the same orangish hue of the underlying shield
20150727 08:32:06< shadowm> Too saturated, the kerning needs adjustment, and the font size is too small.
20150727 08:32:19< Jetrel> shadowm:  thanks, I need to get to bed
20150727 08:32:35< Jetrel> vultraz:  so I can't comment on this any further tonight
20150727 08:32:43< shadowm> (Remember that the guide does specifically explain the kerning step.)
20150727 08:32:54< ancestral> I agree with shadowm
20150727 08:33:40< shadowm> The shadow's strength also doesn't quite match the shield's but I'm not sure whether this is a problem or not.
20150727 08:34:07< vultraz> Font size too small? I used the standard 42 and scaled it as explained
20150727 08:34:09< vultraz> huh
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20150727 08:35:44< ancestral> vultraz: Do you have the original layered underneath for reference?
20150727 08:35:51< shadowm> Just gar--- what ancestral said.
20150727 08:36:16< vultraz> er
20150727 08:36:17< vultraz> I didn't
20150727 08:36:20< vultraz> hehe..
20150727 08:36:30< vultraz> hmm
20150727 08:36:36< vultraz> yes the original is a bit bigger
20150727 08:36:38< shadowm> That's what happens when you try to do things fast. -.-
20150727 08:36:41< vultraz> I'll work on this later
20150727 08:36:51< shadowm> There's a reason I said you have time for this.
20150727 08:36:55< Jetrel> vultraz:  yeah, seriously, you know better than this.
20150727 08:37:11< vultraz> Sorry, I'm juggling a bunch of things at once
20150727 08:37:12< ancestral> Yet, he’s doing all the work and we are the backset drivers
20150727 08:37:15< ancestral> *backseat
20150727 08:37:40< Jetrel> vultraz:  level up already. :/  All you've gotta do is just *actually do* what you know how to.
20150727 08:38:01< vultraz> Yes, I know. I said I'd work on it later when I have more time
20150727 08:38:06< Jetrel> ancestral:  well, I've spent the last 3 hours neck deep in work, it's just that he's working on something else.
20150727 08:38:06< vultraz> And don't have to try to rush
20150727 08:38:39< Jetrel> ancestral:  there's back-seat-driving, and then there's the gunner yelling at the pilot.
20150727 08:38:46< ancestral> :)
20150727 08:39:37< ancestral> Random larger cursor I made years ago: http://mproud.com/wesnoth/canvas/images/normal.png
20150727 08:40:03< shadowm> Some day we will have color cursors on OS X again, some day.
20150727 08:40:22< ancestral> Don’t remember if it’s exactly 2:1. Maybe not
20150727 08:40:42< shadowm> It's one of these things that will magically happen when we get running on SDL 2, along with rainbows and ponies.
20150727 08:41:36< ancestral> shadowm: Sir, I suggest we research Color Cursors for OS X! With this technology, we’ll be able to deliver a richer experience for our citizens.
20150727 08:42:15< ancestral> And rainbows and ponies!
20150727 08:42:15< shadowm> But I want to research nuclear power right now.
20150727 08:42:46< shadowm> And start building nukes ASAP.
20150727 08:43:10< ancestral> Like Gandhi http://www.realclearworld.com/blog/angrygandhi.jpg
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20150727 08:44:55< loonycyborg> color cursors sounds more like engineering project to me
20150727 08:45:12< loonycyborg> those silly games like civ and MOO always confuse science and engineering
20150727 08:46:40< zookeeper> aquileia, ok, i re-did everything according to the current compilation instructions and it works
20150727 08:46:59< zookeeper> "117 WML tests completed in 8m 45s, 88 of them failed" though :P
20150727 08:47:12< irker144> wesnoth: Kunal Mehta wesnoth:master 3799f1e17cf5 / data/tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py: wmltools: Use string.ascii_lowercase for the alphabet http://git.io/vYwbC
20150727 08:47:14< irker144> wesnoth: Kunal Mehta wesnoth:master 63132099a7e6 / data/tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py: wmltools: Use collections.defaultdict http://git.io/vYwbW
20150727 08:47:16< irker144> wesnoth: Kunal Mehta wesnoth:master 817511f7ab59 / data/tools/wesnoth/wmlgrammar.py: wmlgrammar: Various cleanup http://git.io/vYwbl
20150727 08:47:18< irker144> wesnoth: Kunal Mehta wesnoth:master 1ea58864cfb0 / data/tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py: wmltools: Consistently use "is" when checking if a variable is None http://git.io/vYwb8
20150727 08:47:20< irker144> wesnoth: Kunal Mehta wesnoth:master de864c0bc002 / data/tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py: wmltools: Use isinstance to check if a variable is a string http://git.io/vYwb4
20150727 08:47:22< irker144> wesnoth: Kunal Mehta wesnoth:master bd23c32d640f / data/tools/wesnoth/wmliterator.py: Optimize wmliterator.isDirective() http://git.io/vYwbB
20150727 08:47:24< irker144> wesnoth: Elvish-Hunter wesnoth:master 1599f62f46ba / data/tools/wesnoth/ (wmlgrammar.py wmliterator.py wmltools.py): Merge pull request #427 from legoktm/wmltools-cleanup http://git.io/vYwbR
20150727 08:48:27< shadowm> aquileia: Out of curiosity, do you know when was the last time anyone tried to run the engine unit tests on Windows?
20150727 08:48:39< Jetrel> vultraz:  http://www.angryflower.com/1077.html
20150727 08:49:10< shadowm> I know the filesystem test craps out (at least when using the Boost.Filesystem implementation) and I need to figure out why.
20150727 08:49:21< shadowm> "Eventually".
20150727 08:49:35< irker144> wesnoth: ElectroRat wesnoth:master 164f37d77896 / data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/ (maps/07a_Into_the_Depths.map scenarios/07a_Into_the_Depths.cfg): Balance Tweak of "Into the Depths" http://git.io/vYwNJ
20150727 08:49:37< irker144> wesnoth: ElectroRat wesnoth:master 1da710a8cb05 / data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/07a_Into_the_Depths.cfg: minor syntax change http://git.io/vYwNU
20150727 08:49:39< irker144> wesnoth: Lari Nieminen wesnoth:master 79c8ba2c82ea / data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/ (maps/07a_Into_the_Depths.map scenarios/07a_Into_the_Depths.cfg): Merge pull request #425 from chisquare130/master http://git.io/vYwNT
20150727 08:50:05< shadowm> zookeeper: Who is this person on IRC and/or the forums btw?
20150727 08:50:44< zookeeper> shadowm, i'm guessing it's xara since i talked with him about that scenario a few days ago
20150727 08:50:56< shadowm> Oh okay.
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20150727 08:52:51< zookeeper> hrhm. i'm pretty sure the map editor has saved some maps i had open without me telling it to do so.
20150727 08:53:18< zookeeper> because i had a bunch of local changes to maps i had tested the water in, and i wouldn't have intentionally saved those
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20150727 09:00:01< irker144> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master a87e7e16ed77 / changelog src/terrain_builder.cpp src/terrain_builder.hpp: Added support for mod_x,mod_y in [terrain_graphics] http://git.io/vYwp8
20150727 09:02:24< irker144> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 2f910913f373 / changelog src/terrain_builder.cpp src/terrain_builder.hpp: Added support for has_flag in [variant] http://git.io/vYwht
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20150727 09:12:41< estomagordo> Hey all. I came here to see if maybe I can help out
20150727 09:13:51< Elvish_Hunter> Welcome estomagordo. What are your skills?
20150727 09:15:50< estomagordo> I wouldn't call my c++ specific skills "intermediate" (though I would love to sharpen up), but I'm quite fond of and familiar with Python. Usually I've used Python for smaller scripting type jobs, though. When it comes to large code bases, I've only worked in C# and Javascript.
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20150727 09:20:02< Elvish_Hunter> estomagordo: our WML maintenance tools are written in Python, and can always use improvements (one of our long term goals is moving them to Python 3)
20150727 09:20:36< Elvish_Hunter> Also, version control system is Git. Are you familiar with it, or available to learn it?
20150727 09:20:45< Elvish_Hunter> *our version control system
20150727 09:21:28< estomagordo> I've mostly worked with tfs and subversion, but I've forked stuff from github and worked with little pet projects in git before.
20150727 09:22:11< midzer> there are good and easy tutorials for Git
20150727 09:24:18< Elvish_Hunter> Well then, if you want to take a look at wmllint, wmlscope and wmlindent, they can be found in the data/tools directory
20150727 09:24:52< Elvish_Hunter> Once that you applied your modifications, you'll need to perform a pull request so we can review them
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20150727 09:30:47< estomagordo> And what sort of modifications are we talking?
20150727 09:32:18< Elvish_Hunter> Anything that you feel it may be improved
20150727 09:32:52< Elvish_Hunter> Bear in mind, however, that to fully understand these tools, a fair knowledge of WML is needed
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20150727 09:38:49< estomagordo> Okay, so there are no list of bugs or wanted improvements or such? I have a feeling I'll easily get lost if I'm to just walk into a large codebase and get a good feeling for what to start chipping away at
20150727 09:39:24< zookeeper> yeah, when it comes to the WML tools, the only people who can really say what sort of changes/additions they need are the people using them
20150727 09:39:42< zookeeper> ...and i guess we have very little of that written down, considering how many people have expressed interest in working on those tools
20150727 09:39:58< zookeeper> (or maybe i've just missed it)
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20150727 09:41:12< Elvish_Hunter> Our bug tracker is here: http://gna.org/bugs/?group=wesnoth
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20150727 09:43:16< estomagordo> Thanks. But bugs aren't categorized by project?
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20150727 09:44:08< Elvish_Hunter> These tools aren't a separate project, this is why they don't have a separate tracker
20150727 09:45:36< estomagordo> Sure. But logically there is some division between say game engine / c++ and tooling / python. And if I am to help out with the latter, it'd help a tremendous lot if I could weed out the former.
20150727 09:45:54< zookeeper> that's what the item groups are for
20150727 09:46:07< zookeeper> display criteria -> item groups -> WML tools
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20150727 09:51:09< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6851 (master - 79c8ba2 : Lari Nieminen): The build has errored.
20150727 09:51:09< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/72796573
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20150727 09:54:15< estomagordo> Oh I'm sorry, didn't even see the collapsed filtering options
20150727 09:58:24< Elvish_Hunter> Well then, now I have to go. Bye!
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20150727 10:21:03< Anticipation> shadowm: Hey I'm still working on putting in registered player only games, I was just busy all day with family stuff.
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20150727 11:02:55< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6853 (master - 2f91091 : ln-zookeeper): The build has errored.
20150727 11:02:55< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/72797891
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20150727 11:41:52< irker144> wesnoth: ElectroRat wesnoth:master 902bfd38d286 / changelog data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/utils/sg_story.cfg: Make Deoran the grandson of Haldiel http://git.io/vYotn
20150727 11:41:54< irker144> wesnoth: Lari Nieminen wesnoth:master d04be35efff5 / changelog data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/utils/sg_story.cfg: Merge pull request #429 from chisquare130/tSG_balance http://git.io/vYotc
20150727 11:54:46< vultraz> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/newlogo%20english%20render.png attempt 2
20150727 11:57:48< vultraz> used the old version extensively for the kerning/text size so that should be alright
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20150727 11:59:09< vultraz> hey ancestral 
20150727 11:59:18< ancestral> Hi
20150727 12:00:02< vultraz> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/newlogo%20english%20render.png attempt 2
20150727 12:01:53< ancestral> Better :)
20150727 12:01:56< UnwiseOwl> I don't know the purpose of the image...but to me it's hard to read the text as the colour is so close to the shield.
20150727 12:02:08< ancestral> Some of the letters look narrower
20150727 12:02:12< ancestral> The ‘B’ for example
20150727 12:02:24< vultraz> Yeah, for some reason the font's a little different now
20150727 12:02:29< vultraz> Especially the T
20150727 12:02:34< ancestral> The first t
20150727 12:02:40< ancestral> Looks like maybe is using an alternate
20150727 12:02:40< vultraz> UnwiseOwl: how's this? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/newlogo%20english%20render2.png
20150727 12:02:43< ancestral> Or maybe
20150727 12:02:50< ancestral> A capital T
20150727 12:02:54< ancestral> Made much smaller
20150727 12:03:07< UnwiseOwl> I personally think that one is a sexy beat.
20150727 12:03:07< ancestral> The color of the text is a bit too dark
20150727 12:03:10< UnwiseOwl> *beast
20150727 12:03:23< ancestral> But I get you’re trying to match the shield
20150727 12:03:58< ancestral> I think it should probably be a little lighter and/or a little less red, more yellow
20150727 12:04:25< Xara> There's another discrepancy in the South Guard story. 
20150727 12:04:27< Xara> In scenario 5 Ethiliel says "The Black River is before us. No elf, still living, has crossed it."
20150727 12:04:38< vultraz> Hm... it looks like the old logo might have been using a lowercase t with the top erased o_O
20150727 12:04:52< ancestral> Maybe that’s it!
20150727 12:05:05< vultraz> well, lemme get the color right first. then I'll deal with the pesky t
20150727 12:05:20< ancestral> The lowercase a and o look a bit smaller in the new one
20150727 12:05:22< ancestral> But
20150727 12:05:34< ancestral> All these things side, it’s good progress!
20150727 12:05:43< Xara> But in scenario 6b Urza says he often dodge elves there and the woods are crawling with elves
20150727 12:05:51< ancestral> Fairly close
20150727 12:09:12< vultraz> ancestral: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/newlogo%20english%20render3.png
20150727 12:10:12< ancestral> Color is almost perfect here
20150727 12:10:31< ancestral> I’m curious
20150727 12:10:48< ancestral> You’re sizing the text 80% width-wise?
20150727 12:11:04< ancestral> What if you don’t, and track -10% or -20%?
20150727 12:11:17< ancestral> (or something along those lines)
20150727 12:11:34< vultraz> I scaled it to 125%H and 85%W (give or take a few tenths of a percent)
20150727 12:11:42< vultraz> 120 and 80 were making it just a tad too small
20150727 12:11:51< UnwiseOwl> Does it need the "the"
20150727 12:12:30< ancestral> Could you try not scaling width-wise?
20150727 12:12:47< ancestral> UnwiseOwl: That’s a good question
20150727 12:12:48< UnwiseOwl> Seems crazy, to change a name just 'cause the logo looks better without it, but, I mean...does ANYONE call it "The Battle for Wesnoth"?
20150727 12:13:03< ancestral> I have raised a concern in the past
20150727 12:13:38< ancestral> Some people call it “Battle for Wesnoth.” Some call it “The Batle for Wesnoth.” Many just say “Wesnoth.”
20150727 12:14:02< ancestral> I’m partial to the “the” myself.
20150727 12:14:27< UnwiseOwl> Whatever floats your boat :)
20150727 12:14:31< ancestral> But, maybe that’s because I have fond memories of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back.
20150727 12:14:57< UnwiseOwl> Don't we all?
20150727 12:15:13< vultraz> ancestral: the only width problem seems to be with the 'B'
20150727 12:15:15< vultraz> :/
20150727 12:15:18< ancestral> vultraz: Just for kicks… want to try a version without the ’the’ and…
20150727 12:15:25< ancestral> And with only “Wesnoth”
20150727 12:15:32< ancestral> Just to see what it looks like 😛
20150727 12:17:16< vultraz> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/newlogo%20english%20render_no_article.png
20150727 12:17:50< ancestral> vultraz: Are you using Celtic Garamond or Celtic Garamond the 2nd or Celetic Garamond Pro?
20150727 12:18:00< vultraz> 2nd
20150727 12:18:55< vultraz> honestly, the logo kinda looks pretty sleek sans 'the'...
20150727 12:23:41< UnwiseOwl> Sleek indeed. That thing could be in the Olympic Sailing.
20150727 12:24:27< vultraz> Jetrel: opinion on dropping the article from the logo, as so? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/newlogo%20english%20render_no_article.png
20150727 12:33:06< ancestral> Okay there definitely is some width compression
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20150727 12:33:29< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6855 (master - d04be35 : Lari Nieminen): The build has errored.
20150727 12:33:29< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/72817743
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20150727 12:38:48< vultraz> shadowm: your opinion required on the dropping of the article too
20150727 12:38:51< vultraz> ancestral: between what?
20150727 12:38:58< vultraz> ancestral: as I said, I only see it on the B
20150727 12:39:02< shadowm> zookeeper: I only introduced the WML tools tracker group two days ago. :p
20150727 12:39:52< ancestral> vultraz: I’m playing around with the text too… for a moment I was doubting there was treatment on the width, but I see now there absolutely is
20150727 12:39:59< zookeeper> shadowm, oh...
20150727 12:39:59< vultraz> Hm
20150727 12:40:11< vultraz> ancestral: CG the 2nd?
20150727 12:40:16< ancestral> Yes
20150727 12:40:28< ancestral> So you’re right
20150727 12:41:41< vultraz> there's definitely a difference with the wiki numbers of 120%H and 80%W
20150727 12:42:00< vultraz> which is why i offset by 5%
20150727 12:42:06< vultraz> extra percent
20150727 12:42:52< shadowm> Anticipation: Okay. Let me know if you run into any problems with the code.
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20150727 12:44:33< shadowm> vultraz: The logo feels naked without the article and so would every <cite> element in http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.12/ .
20150727 12:44:53< shadowm> *naked and wrong
20150727 12:45:09< vultraz> The cite, sure.
20150727 12:45:39< vultraz> I'm not proposing changing that
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20150727 12:46:03< shadowm> We would have to change that if you change the logo.
20150727 12:46:29< shadowm> Think of all the c74ds around the world.
20150727 12:47:23< vultraz> Are you against it, then?
20150727 12:47:37< shadowm> Yes.
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20150727 12:48:15< aquileia> zookeeper: What exactly didn't work when you tried updating?
20150727 12:48:28< vultraz> Alright. I'll still hear what jet has to say, though
20150727 12:48:38< vultraz> What about the color/size/kerning now?
20150727 12:50:07< aquileia> shadowm: I don't think we ever got the boost test suite to work on MSVC...
20150727 12:50:59 * aquileia is reading through the logs
20150727 12:52:27< irker144> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 337dd246b2e2 / utils/pofix.py: pofix: Add download path string fixes for the 1.12.4 release http://git.io/vYoMz
20150727 12:52:34< irker144> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master eb88adf35485 / start/1.12/ (63 files in 2 dirs): pofix pass for the 1.12.4 release http://git.io/vYoMo
20150727 12:53:05< irker144> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 e1666ae9aa7f / utils/pofix.py: pofix: Add download path string fixes for the 1.12.4 release http://git.io/vYoMD
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20150727 13:06:24< romanko> vultraz: So I would like to pick The rise of Wesnoth and Liberty to maintain 
20150727 13:07:15 * zookeeper would recommend starting with liberty
20150727 13:07:31< zookeeper> what kind of things would you have in mind for them?
20150727 13:12:43< romanko> It was said I should check for the wrong code at first
20150727 13:16:16< romanko> But for Liberty, I'd suggest to improve Rogue Mage line
20150727 13:17:04< romanko> their costs are weird, differences between levels strangely varying, imho
20150727 13:18:53< UnwiseOwl> I have level zero units that I'd expect to have a no-zoc ellipse with no ellipse at all...what have I done?
20150727 13:19:52< zookeeper> something different than core lvl0 units, i'd imagine
20150727 13:20:08< UnwiseOwl> Of course!
20150727 13:20:22< UnwiseOwl> Core units? Who uses core units?
20150727 13:20:23< shadowm> Don't use an ellipse line in 1.12.
20150727 13:20:37< UnwiseOwl> Really? Damn. How'd I miss that?
20150727 13:20:55< UnwiseOwl> (Same way I missed all the things...right...failed to read docs)
20150727 13:20:59< shadowm> Not looking at stderr? :p
20150727 13:21:10< UnwiseOwl> stderr is SCARY.
20150727 13:21:27< shadowm> It should be obvious what's causing the issue if you see the "could not load image yadda yadda ellipse-nozoc-nozoc.png" messages.
20150727 13:21:49< UnwiseOwl> Yeah, got no message in game, so didn't even think to go looking...
20150727 13:21:53< shadowm> It's not scary, it's just text.
20150727 13:22:02< UnwiseOwl> I'm very timid, see :P
20150727 13:22:49< zookeeper> romanko, well, sure. if you make a PR for something like that then remember to describe what the reasoning for each change is
20150727 13:23:56< romanko> Of course
20150727 13:24:59 * zookeeper finds leadership pretty weird on shadow mage and lord
20150727 13:25:52< romanko> Me too
20150727 13:26:12< zookeeper> they may be the only potential leadership units you can get, but it still seems very out of character for that unit line
20150727 13:26:16< UnwiseOwl> me finds the no_zoc ellipses to be hard to determine in some terrains. Particularly castles...
20150727 13:27:51< romanko> I think it would be good to create an unique ability that would act like a leadership, but imply only on Rogue mage line, like "inspiring younger mage" .. 
20150727 13:27:55< romanko> *mages
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20150727 13:28:59< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6856 (master - 337dd24 : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build passed.
20150727 13:28:59< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/72828333
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20150727 13:31:25< zookeeper> i wonder if an aura ability that bumps adjacent allies' magical attacks to 80% CtH would be too rule-breaking and/or strange.
20150727 13:32:21< romanko> Or unique unit type for Baldras and then equip him with leadership; that would be reasonable both from storyline part of view and from gameplay part, player would need to use the leader a much (and I love that ;))
20150727 13:32:28< shadowm> zookeeper: We have initiative and whatever Jessica's abilility in TRoW was called so I don't see why not.
20150727 13:32:52< shadowm> (Distracts?)
20150727 13:32:56< zookeeper> yes
20150727 13:33:02< zookeeper> li'sar has initiative :P
20150727 13:33:32< zookeeper> romanko, yeah, leadership would fit baldras well, and he wouldn't even need a new unit type
20150727 13:34:06< zookeeper> might be a bit easy to miss it though since none of the other elders/bandits would have it
20150727 13:34:37< romanko> What about adding an informative message in the start of campaign?
20150727 13:35:52< zookeeper> on the easiest difficulty and maybe triggered later (such as when you're about to actually be able to utilize it), sure
20150727 13:37:11< UnwiseOwl> It's not like Liberty is a beginning campaign. I think people generally look at the abilities of their hero units, don't they?
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20150727 13:37:55< shadowm> If they fit in the sidebar, mainly. Plus if you have a unit you are likely to assume it works the same as all other units of the same type.
20150727 13:38:42< aquileia> loonycyborg: If I were to write a script that would ultimately end up in your packaging routine, would it have to be a .sh or .cmd, or are both possible?
20150727 13:38:50< romanko> Yes, especially when there is a bit mess with changed unit type names
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20150727 13:40:26< loonycyborg> aquileia: you mean on windows? I think I could handle both, but would try to integrate it into scons first
20150727 13:40:36< romanko> Bandit hasn't any special abilities, it should fit
20150727 13:40:41< zookeeper> aquileia, it all works now
20150727 13:41:09< aquileia> zookeeper: But what was the problem? I'd like to know so that I can improve the wiki
20150727 13:41:54< aquileia> were you missing the update to external/ and it didn't find libpng?
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20150727 13:43:29< aquileia> loonycyborg: Then I'll do my prototyping in cmd (I'm more familiar with batch than bash)
20150727 13:43:40< zookeeper> aquileia, yeah the previous time i did this i had put the external stuff elsewhere, whereas now the instructions and VC9 files assume them to be next to to wesnoth root
20150727 13:43:43< loonycyborg> ok
20150727 13:44:07< zookeeper> we talked about that being the new assumed location then, but i had already setup things using the old way
20150727 13:44:17< aquileia> ah, ok
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20150727 13:45:14< zookeeper> aquileia, although it did took me a moment to realize that the instructions really said to put external next to wesnoth root, not inside it, so if you want to clarify something then that'd be my choice
20150727 13:45:20< ancestral> vultraz: http://mproud.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-logo-with-border-scaled-half-comparison.png
20150727 13:45:32< zookeeper> it's pretty unusual and i'm sure many people would read through it but still assume it meant inside wesnoth root
20150727 13:46:35< UnwiseOwl2Unwise> shadowm: My stderr is FULL of issues...is this why units.wesnoth.org hates me?
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20150727 13:47:36< zookeeper> romanko, shadowm, i don't really worry about people not noticing his leadership, there can be a hint message after all. i'd worry about it being a bit odd, because already in the 1st scenario you got 2 other village elders.
20150727 13:47:57< aquileia> ancestral, vultraz: The text of that lower logo looks flat in comparision...
20150727 13:48:11< zookeeper> even if baldras is nominally the leader, there doesn't seem to be anything special about him really
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20150727 13:48:26< ancestral> Yeah, it’s different, for sure
20150727 13:49:32< shadowm> UnwiseOwl: Probably.
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20150727 13:49:50< shadowm> Although odds are it's something that Wesnoth wouldn't normally care about.
20150727 13:50:29< aquileia> I like the polished look though
20150727 13:50:32< UnwiseOwl> Yeah, they mostly seem to be translation issues.
20150727 13:51:09< vultraz> ancestral: hmmm what font is that?
20150727 13:51:18< vultraz> CG#2?
20150727 13:51:22< ancestral> Yes, the same
20150727 13:51:47< ancestral> I’m not in love with the inner shadow/stroke but it’s interesting
20150727 13:52:05< romanko> zookeper: We can add to the plot some info about his charisma or strength; having all the bandits with leadership would be strange in the same way as it is now with mages I think; and there really should be at least somebody with leadership
20150727 13:52:05< ancestral> I ended up putting -80% on all the letters and kept the height the same
20150727 13:52:27< shadowm> It looks very flat.
20150727 13:52:29< ancestral> Then took an extra -80% (total of -64%) on the ’n’ and ‘h’
20150727 13:52:48< ancestral> The small ‘h’ in the I took just a one time -80%
20150727 13:52:49< shadowm> Almost like a paper cut-out.
20150727 13:52:56< vultraz> It is quite flat
20150727 13:53:02< vultraz> But it's very polished
20150727 13:53:19< ancestral> I don’t think we’ve established the fact that it’s flat.
20150727 13:53:37< vultraz> ancestral: can you bump map it just a tad?
20150727 13:53:53< ancestral> Probably. Let me have another go at it
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20150727 13:56:05< ancestral> HSB colors I used: Text color: 45° 60% 75%  Inner shadow: 45° 30% 100%  Shadow: black
20150727 13:56:53< vultraz> What I was using was HSL 40 70 65
20150727 13:58:22< ancestral> I also have a 1px black border (or half when scaled down)
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20150727 15:01:37< aquileia> vultraz: Just for reference, 16 - 32 - 48 - 256 are the sizes needed for Windows icons (I'll just scale the existing ones). 64 is only used in 'classic mode' (whatever that is) and even Steam.exe doesn't provide it
20150727 15:02:08< vultraz> Oh, huh
20150727 15:04:35< aquileia> As it's the original size I guess I should add it even if it's practically unused?
20150727 15:04:47< vultraz> which?
20150727 15:04:53< aquileia> 64x64
20150727 15:05:27< vultraz> icons/wesnoth-icon is 64x64
20150727 15:05:57< aquileia> yes, that's what I meant - I propably should ad that, given that it's the original size?
20150727 15:06:11< vultraz> add that to..what
20150727 15:06:13< vultraz> I'm confused
20150727 15:07:44< aquileia> I'll update wesnoth-icon.ico with the new logo, but to do that I need to know whether to add the 64x64 size. It won't be used for most users, but then it's the original size
20150727 15:08:17< vultraz> Uh... original size?
20150727 15:08:24< vultraz> event the icon in core is 128
20150727 15:08:35< aquileia> as in - the size you provided
20150727 15:08:42< vultraz> Oh
20150727 15:08:51< vultraz> Well I only added a 64 version because that's what was there
20150727 15:08:56< vultraz> I just replaced
20150727 15:09:01< aquileia> ah, ok
20150727 15:09:12< vultraz> all these were downscaled from a 400x400 version
20150727 15:09:18< shadowm> Scaling isn't very nice. Don't we have a SVG version now?
20150727 15:09:34< vultraz> to the sizes of the existing icons, then I committed them plus the big 500x500 version
20150727 15:09:41< vultraz> No we don't
20150727 15:09:49< vultraz> Perhaps you could PM srgt groovy
20150727 15:09:55< aquileia> IIRC he wanted to keep the svg to himself but offered to provide any rasterized sizes?
20150727 15:10:01< shadowm> God dammit, what the hell.
20150727 15:10:24< shadowm> Not only this goes against the spirit of the GPL, it inconveniences us for things like this.
20150727 15:10:49< vultraz> This was all 2 years ago
20150727 15:10:55< shadowm> I already explained why downscaling doesn't cut it most of the time.
20150727 15:10:59< vultraz> We would need to ask if this is still the case
20150727 15:11:52< vultraz> If we cannot get the svg (assuming he still has it), we could always just ask for the sizes we need
20150727 15:11:53< shadowm> It's not like he's going to do anything with the original anymore.
20150727 15:12:09< vultraz> But I'm pretty sure he'd hand it over
20150727 15:12:11< vultraz> Hopefully
20150727 15:12:31< vultraz> A PM from you carries more weight than one from me, either way
20150727 15:12:59< shadowm> :|
20150727 15:13:14< aquileia> Then I'll wait with the icon generation for now until we have his response
20150727 15:13:48< vultraz> Well, a PM from jetrel would carry even more weight
20150727 15:13:50< shadowm> I'm not the one who suddenly decided to add this out of left field.
20150727 15:14:20< shadowm> I for one wouldn't have pursued this without the SVG anyway.
20150727 15:17:10< aquileia> Jetrel: ^
20150727 15:18:27< vultraz> Groovy was online in February
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20150727 15:18:48< vultraz> Likely we'll get a response of some kind
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20150727 15:53:21< aquileia> vultraz, shadowm: We never really came to a conclusion on LordBob's 16x16 icons... http://forum.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=64031 http://forum.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=64053 http://forum.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=64305
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20150727 15:54:22< vultraz> I'm pretty sure the one we decided on became the favicon
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20150727 15:54:28< vultraz> for the site
20150727 15:55:26< shadowm> What vultraz said.
20150727 15:57:02< aquileia> So I should add favicon_03, ok (it never officially got any votes, that's why I asked)
20150727 15:58:34< shadowm> "I'll produce a final icon soon based on the majority vote." -> favicon_03.png
20150727 15:58:53< shadowm> It may need some palette tweaking since the new logo is brighter.
20150727 15:59:19< shadowm> As well as much, much more saturated (which I'm still unsure how I feel about).
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20150727 16:15:33< DrunkLurker> Hello there
20150727 16:16:38< shadowm> Hi.
20150727 16:21:39< vultraz> hello
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20150727 16:32:54< belenos> So, the call for devs hit Lobsters and hacker news. I'm more of a python person, so is there a place I could look at the code for your wml tools, to see if I could help?
20150727 16:33:19< legoktm> it's mainly in data/tools
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20150727 16:34:36< belenos> Shiny. And is there a procedure for version control, or is it a matter of talking to one of the full time devs?
20150727 16:37:48< vultraz> just fork the repo and create pull requests when you have something :)
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20150727 16:42:55< belenos> Gotcha. Thanks!
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20150727 16:51:58< shadowm> Only after moving things around I realize that horizontal listboxes' [list_data] only appears to support setting the attributes on the immediate child.
20150727 16:52:15< shadowm> And same thing goes for vertical listboxes.
20150727 16:53:01< shadowm> So I'll have to move the listbox data construction to C++ anyway. Bleh.
20150727 16:53:06< andyg314> Hi I'm a long time wesnoth player, and noticed the request for help on the front page.  I'm a professional embedded programmer in c and c++ I've done many things, but most applicable here is probbably video processing, video drivers and QT work
20150727 16:53:43< andyg314> Who should I talk to regarding helping out?
20150727 16:54:19< shadowm> andyg314: Hi. Have you checked the Getting Started topic yet?
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20150727 16:57:24< shadowm> andyg314: Please use the public channel instead of queries unless you absolutely need to hide something from the logs. :)
20150727 16:58:35< shadowm> Is there something in particular you feel you could help with, from the options at the top? (bugs tracker, EasyCoding, NotSoEasyCoding)
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20150727 16:59:50< andyg314> Oh sure
20150727 17:00:33< andyg314> That's why I'm here actually, I don't really know.
20150727 17:01:28< andyg314> I have a bunch of c/c++ coding experience, I've done large products and am looking to do more open source work, aside from paid kernel driver work I do professionally.
20150727 17:02:09< andyg314> I could certainly start with bug tracker stuff but I'd like to do some degree of new coding as well.
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20150727 17:05:39< c74d3> belenos: while <http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Git_for_Wesnoth_Crash_Course> is (as far as I'm aware) not authoritative, its workflow should always be accepted.
20150727 17:05:39-!- andyg314 [32e853e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.232.83.226] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20150727 17:06:31< shadowm> c74d3: Remind me to take a look at that page again later, it seems far more organized and pretty than I remember.
20150727 17:06:43< c74d3> shadowm: mhm.
20150727 17:07:22-!- tetha [~hkraemer@p4FF40EA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20150727 17:07:23< c74d3> I mean, thanks.
20150727 17:08:23< shadowm> :V
20150727 17:09:10< c74d3> I didn't get to "Cleaning up at the end" and below (yet), though.
20150727 17:09:14< shadowm> Well, I guess what I first saw was more along the lines of the first rev: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=Git_for_Wesnoth_Crash_Course&oldid=53246
20150727 17:09:37< c74d3> oh
20150727 17:09:50< c74d3> in that case, definitely not all me
20150727 17:10:25< zookeeper> andyg314, if you have experience in that sort of thing, then maybe once you've familiarized yourself with the code a bit, you'd be able to help with http://wiki.wesnoth.org/NotSoEasyCoding#SDL_2_.2B_OpenGL_port
20150727 17:10:29< zookeeper> (just a guess)
20150727 17:10:41< c74d3> I mean, there were at least headings when I started WesnothRepository-ifying it
20150727 17:14:25< tetha> btw.. is there any guarantee about the contents of a macro to be valid WML, or is a macro with a substitution "[/unit
20150727 17:14:33< tetha> ... "][unit]" valid?
20150727 17:14:47< tetha> (forget the linebreak there, that's must my big fingers :) )
20150727 17:15:11< autodidact> thats must be it
20150727 17:15:14< c74d3> tetha: It's merely a textual substitution, so no.
20150727 17:15:16< Ravana_> macro can have any text content
20150727 17:15:27< shadowm> Correct.
20150727 17:15:40< tetha> heh, I feared that much.
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20150727 17:20:10< shadowm> I've added another NSEC task: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/NotSoEasyCoding#Passphrase_encryption
20150727 17:20:47< aquileia> shadowm: better? https://www.dropbox.com/s/2050qfa8l67ayv3/16c_5.png?dl=0
20150727 17:21:25< shadowm> Eh.
20150727 17:21:57< aquileia> It's a tad brighter now
20150727 17:22:16< shadowm> The central area needs to be even brighter.
20150727 17:23:45< legoktm> shadowm: where is the code for campaignd located?
20150727 17:24:12< c74d3> "Ideally, the server should store all passphrases in encrypted form, and preferably the client too should send an encrypted passphrase to the server." -- s/encrypted/hashed/ ?
20150727 17:24:19< shadowm> legoktm: src/campaign_server, although it shares a bit with the client (most notably src/addon/validation.cpp.
20150727 17:24:26< c74d3> s/encrypted/hashed/g , rather.
20150727 17:24:52< shadowm> c74d3: You probably know the lingo better than me so sure I guess?
20150727 17:25:13< tetha> hashing is the correctoperation there, ye
20150727 17:25:31< tetha> hashing allows the server to check for equality without knowig the passphrase
20150727 17:25:49< c74d3> "encrypted" would imply that the server is intended to decrypt it, when it should just do that ^
20150727 17:25:57< legoktm> thanks
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20150727 17:26:06< shadowm> Fixed.
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20150727 17:26:25< c74d3> to be precise, the proper operation is "run it through a key derivation function", which is a form of hashing
20150727 17:26:28< shadowm> I mean, if someone decides to implement encrypted WML network transfers I'm not going to oppose that.
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20150727 17:27:07< c74d3> but "password hashing" is how it's usually referred to as
20150727 17:27:12< shadowm> Although it's probably overkill for campaignd and wesnothd most of the time.
20150727 17:27:29< shadowm> The only sensitive operations are campaignd uploads and wesnothd forum account authentication.
20150727 17:27:49< tetha> hmm, I gotta say the whole toolchain is starting to look more and more interesting, since handling this stuff in a future-oriented and extensible manner would require quite some compiler thinking
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20150727 17:36:35< aquileia> shadowm: minor edit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fdmaiwvkjp2udfl/16c_6.png?dl=0
20150727 17:38:03< shadowm> aquileia: Good enough.
20150727 17:38:51< aquileia> remind me... do I need to convert it into web safe colors?
20150727 17:40:14< shadowm> No, unless you need to go back to 1996.
20150727 17:41:20< shadowm> Pretty much all devices any sane web developer cares about support 16M colors or more. The web safe palette is an artifact of an era where most people had to run in 256 color modes due to having less than 2 MiB of video RAM.
20150727 17:43:08< shadowm> Relatedly, it's no longer particularly useful to include 16-color or 256-color versions in .ico files.
20150727 17:43:39< shadowm> Or 65K-color, for that matter.
20150727 17:44:11< shadowm> I mean, Wesnoth does not even properly support non-8 bits x channel modes since 1.6.x IIRC.
20150727 17:46:26< shadowm> MS' guidelines recommend including 256 and 16 color versions anyway for Remote Desktop usage apparently.
20150727 17:47:26< aquileia> shadowm: I don't have commit access to glamdrol, so if you want to replace  glamdrol/glamdrol/ico.png you'll have to do that  yourself.
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20150727 17:47:53< shadowm> I guess it makes sense since the less space your pixels take up the better you can compress framebuffer updates, but I don't think anyone would ever want to run Wesnoth with Remote Desktop (or X11 over the net for that matter).
20150727 17:48:34< shadowm> And if they do they deserve to get a broken icon.
20150727 17:49:21< shadowm> aquileia: What's the latest version again?
20150727 17:49:46< aquileia> 16c_6.png
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20150727 17:52:57< irker830> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle glamdrol:master fd2bbee5b51a / glamdrol/ico.png: Color tweaks to the favicon from aquileia for the new logo in 1.13.2 http://git.io/vY6pD
20150727 17:56:04< shadowm> I deployed this immediately but don't expect browsers to catch up very soon.
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20150727 18:43:19< aquileia> Can anybody here test the new icon on Windows XP? https://www.dropbox.com/s/7a6gt1q3stc8pvw/wesnoth-icon6.ico?dl=0
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20150727 18:46:08< aquileia> According to the documentation, including a compressed 256x256 icon can cause issues on XP - I'm not sure whether the tool I used handles this correctly
20150727 18:46:45< tetha> heh, wesnoth is supporting more windows versions than microsoft? :)
20150727 18:47:50< iceiceice> apparently most of china still uses windows XP :p
20150727 18:48:06< aquileia> loonycyborg: We do support XP, right? Else we'd have close the XP related bug reports, I guess?
20150727 18:48:29< iceiceice> actually i didn't hear this part of it: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2103680/chinas-windows-xp-users-to-still-get-security-support.html
20150727 18:48:40< loonycyborg> yes we still support winxp
20150727 18:48:44< iceiceice> i did see this part earlier: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/182735-chinese-government-bans-windows-8-due-to-microsofts-retirement-of-windows-xp
20150727 18:48:58< loonycyborg> that's the reason I make releases from winxp
20150727 18:49:30< loonycyborg> once we decide todrop support for xp i guess I'll upgrade that partition to win7 :P
20150727 18:50:42< tetha> iceiceice: welp, that situation's indeed fubar
20150727 18:50:57< aquileia> loonycyborg: Could you try my icon file on XP, then?
20150727 18:51:20< loonycyborg> meaning? try how?
20150727 18:51:31< loonycyborg> and what icon anyway
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20150727 18:51:44< aquileia> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7a6gt1q3stc8pvw/wesnoth-icon6.ico?dl=0
20150727 18:52:35< aquileia> Opening the file in explorer might give you an exception
20150727 18:52:49< aquileia> Or at least that's what I read
20150727 18:53:28< loonycyborg> if it's for explorer then...
20150727 18:53:36< loonycyborg> nobody uses explorer even onwinxp
20150727 18:53:54< aquileia> not IE, Windows Explorer
20150727 18:54:01< loonycyborg> oh
20150727 18:54:14< loonycyborg> so I'd need to recompile wesnoth
20150727 18:54:25< loonycyborg> did you already commit it?
20150727 18:54:32< aquileia> you could just click on the file
20150727 18:54:43< aquileia> no, I'll commit it if it works on XP
20150727 18:54:55< loonycyborg> I'll try in vm better
20150727 18:54:58< loonycyborg> don't wanna reboot
20150727 18:55:01< aquileia> If you could compile wesnoth with it, that'd be even better
20150727 18:55:24< aquileia> but it's not necessary AFAICT
20150727 18:59:59< loonycyborg> hmm explorer still works fine
20150727 19:00:03< loonycyborg> when browing dir
20150727 19:00:08< loonycyborg> I saved the icon to
20150727 19:02:49< aquileia> Then I'll just commit it. Thanks!
20150727 19:03:55< capgelka> Hi all. I'have read news on the main page and want to help with python toolchain. I have already posted this on forum http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=42911#p587741 . Can somebody tell me what help do you need and what should I start with?
20150727 19:07:54< irker830> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:master ff348149566c / packaging/windows/wesnoth-icon.ico: Update Windows icon http://git.io/vYi2t
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20150727 19:09:34< aquileia> shadowm: What about 1.12 ? We usually backport art updates, does that apply to the icon as well?
20150727 19:12:00< shadowm> No, because it's not an art update, it's a branding update.
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20150727 19:12:46< tetha> bleh, alright, I'll start writing up my thoughts on the python tooling tomorrow and post tomorrow / day afterwards. There's too many interested people and not enough stuff happening.
20150727 19:17:46< shadowm> capgelka: You probably should ask Elvish_Hunter and/or wait to see what tetha has to say on the matter.
20150727 19:20:21< shadowm> Incidentally, we should put a link to this email somewhere: https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2010-02/msg00078.html
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20150727 19:26:23< tetha> it's reassuring to see a lot of my concerns mirrored in that mail
20150727 19:27:18< tetha> as I said, doing some things right will require some deep meditation with the dragon book
20150727 19:27:52< tetha> and that's not really something I like if we want to attract a lot of developers
20150727 19:27:53< shadowm> Talking about wmllint: "../../data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/garak-abilities.cfg", line 56: wesnoth.float_label(student.x, student.y, "<span color should not have a translation mark
20150727 19:28:18< shadowm> I think something everyone would apprciate right now is the ability to have it skip over verbatim strings.
20150727 19:28:47< shadowm> (Verbatim strings are quoted with << and >> in WML and are most frequently used to wrap Lua code.)
20150727 19:29:14< tetha> gosh, a feature request that's not total hell to do :)
20150727 19:30:09< shadowm> The current state of wmllint runs on master: http://pastebin.com/Gy9Mu3WY
20150727 19:30:40< shadowm> I think it's not helped by the fact that LoW is not exactly in sync between 1.12 and master, with the former having more fixes than the latter.
20150727 19:31:18< tetha> eugh, that help.cfg output
20150727 19:31:26< tetha> and shouldn't TODO be it's own lint error?
20150727 19:31:30< tetha> err, warning.
20150727 19:32:13< shadowm> Yeah, editor/help.cfg is in a really bad shape because someone decided to make only a partial attempt at writing it before disappearing.
20150727 19:32:32< shadowm> But most of the warnings about misspellings result from https://gna.org/bugs/?22780 .
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20150727 19:34:15< tetha> ah so there's different test formatting languages in different tags.
20150727 19:34:26< tetha> that's not too bad to do.
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20150727 19:35:05< iceiceice> shadowm: fwiw, saw this on travis issue tracker:
20150727 19:35:05< iceiceice> https://github.com/travis-ci/travis-ci/issues/3690
20150727 19:35:12< iceiceice> "If you really want Trusty, email support@travis-ci.com, please. We'll see what we can do."
20150727 19:35:36< iceiceice> it might be a good idea to to ask them to put wesnoth on trusty, even if they haven't officially made it available yet
20150727 19:35:56< iceiceice> b/c then it wont have to install a new compiler each time runs unit tests
20150727 19:36:09< tetha> "We would volunteer as a project to test your trusty-support" ;)
20150727 19:36:15< shadowm> Huh? So they do have trusty running on their facilities?
20150727 19:36:22< iceiceice> they've been working on it for like 18 months
20150727 19:36:29< iceiceice> i think the issue is that theres so many thousands of projects
20150727 19:36:37< iceiceice> that its really hard to upgrade all at once
20150727 19:36:56< iceiceice> liek some effed up version of some java builder probably wont work
20150727 19:37:05< shadowm> They should just offer the option somewhere in the web interface and let us deal with + report the consequences ourselves.
20150727 19:37:19< shadowm> Just slap a warning label on it or something.
20150727 19:37:21< iceiceice> i think they dont want to be in a position of officially supporting and maintaining both precise and trusty
20150727 19:37:59< iceiceice> idk i dont think its very well managed, they really should have been able to upgrade to tursty in less than 18 months
20150727 19:38:22< iceiceice> how much longer is precise even supported?
20150727 19:38:42< shadowm> 2017 or something?
20150727 19:38:45< tetha> I was just wondering what happens if the travis uupgrade takes longer than the lifetime of the version, heh.
20150727 19:39:05< shadowm> Wikipedia says... 2017-04.
20150727 19:39:31< iceiceice> well, just something to consider
20150727 19:39:48< iceiceice> imo whatever problems it causes cant be worse than installing a new libc with each build :p
20150727 19:40:03< shadowm> I doubt it'll cause any new problems for us at least.
20150727 19:40:26< shadowm> Our workflow with travis seems simple enough other than the package installation part.
20150727 19:40:54< shadowm> Do you think they'll require us to use a container environment script with trusty?
20150727 19:41:36< tetha> hmhm. I think if a wml style checker would be supposed to enforce a reasonable style, I could define macros with unbalanced starting- and ending-tags a terrible idea. 
20150727 19:42:31< shadowm> tetha: That's a thing that WML's design unfortunately sometimes forces us to use for really essential stuff, like the implementation of the Ghast's feeding ability in mainline.
20150727 19:42:44< tetha> ah. meh.
20150727 19:42:49< iceiceice> shadowm: i dont really know, i would email them and ask
20150727 19:43:01< iceiceice> that thread is from april also, so maybe the story is different
20150727 19:43:03< tetha> I'll need to look at that.
20150727 19:45:39< shadowm> Too bad GH doesn't support text searches on a branch's commit history.
20150727 19:46:29< tetha> but then again, pre preprocessor checks wouldn't matter for most checks anyway
20150727 19:46:51< tetha> in my current plans, most sanity checks would just work on a fully expanded wml tree either way
20150727 19:47:00< tetha> since that's easier for everyone involved.
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20150727 19:48:42< shadowm> Here's just an example of the kind of wmllint fringe-cases I have to deal with in my own campaign on a regular basis: https://github.com/shikadilord/After_the_Storm/commit/53f227ef0438bc5623e256a3b799076642f3e04a
20150727 19:49:36< shadowm> Or this insanity: https://github.com/shikadilord/After_the_Storm/commit/0a20e00ef3033a55b9c4995df73f5b3d6077d65e
20150727 19:50:16< tetha> hah
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20150727 19:50:57< shadowm> Because apparently there are some checks in wmllint that walk the WML tree using wmliterator, and others than don't.
20150727 19:51:34< tetha> honestly, that's something I'd rip out straight up
20150727 19:52:15< shadowm> It also apparently doesn't take kindly to seeing embedded translator hints in strings: https://github.com/shikadilord/After_the_Storm/commit/b683cdc247dcefbaaf6822f6bdda83da6fc30159
20150727 19:52:21< tetha> I'm thinking about establishing proper requirements for tasks
20150727 19:52:32< aquileia> shadowm: I think git log has a search feature
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20150727 19:52:50< tetha> so, does a check need a fully parsed tree, does a check need to run before the preprocessor, that kinda stuff
20150727 19:52:53< shadowm> aquileia: Yes, but I wanted the pretty buttons and stuff on the web.
20150727 19:53:16< tetha> migrations will be another really big issue there.
20150727 19:53:33< tetha> because technically, migrations are not possible with maliciously crafted macros.
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20150727 20:28:06< aquileia> zookeeper: That small lake (shallow water) in UTBS S3 looks a bit odd right now, might be a good test case for your new animations?
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20150727 20:29:38< zookeeper> aquileia, the beach waves look a bit dorky in that context
20150727 20:29:51< capgelka> shadowm, tetha: Ok. I wiil wait for more info and ask Elvish_Hunter. Thanks for your disscussion with all this usefull links, I started understanding the current situation with python tools.
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