--- Log opened Wed Jul 29 00:00:28 2015
20150729 00:00:36-!- UnwiseOwl [~UnwiseOwl@1.125.49.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20150729 00:01:04< shadowm> loonycyborg: I can't see anything in gitattributes(5) allowing to have the line format depend on the current platform Git is running on.
20150729 00:01:22< aquileia> shadowm: Are you okay with deleting the changelog shortcut and keeping the players_changelog one?
20150729 00:01:23< shadowm> Changing these files to use CR-LF regardless would be a grave mistake.
20150729 00:01:28< shadowm> *of platform
20150729 00:01:34< loonycyborg> https://help.github.com/articles/dealing-with-line-endings/
20150729 00:02:10< aquileia> shadowm: At least for me, git auto-converts to Windows endings when merging changes
20150729 00:02:29< loonycyborg> it says setting it to "text" would use platform correct line ending
20150729 00:02:34< shadowm> Okay, so you just set the text attribute and leave eol unspecified I guess.
20150729 00:03:02< shadowm> It sounds like you still need to configure your Git client to use CR-LF.
20150729 00:03:42< loonycyborg> I'll deal with it next timethere will be release
20150729 00:03:48< shadowm> aquileia: I know and the point is that loonycyborg's repisotry is configured to use LF everywhere.
20150729 00:04:23< loonycyborg> I'm using tortoisegit, guess somehow it endedup badly configured
20150729 00:04:25< loonycyborg> or
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20150729 00:04:49< loonycyborg> it'sabsolutely needed to set them for those files
20150729 00:04:54< loonycyborg> this attribute
20150729 00:04:55< shadowm> aquileia: I'm okay with either removing both changelog links (not really a good idea) or leaving both intact.
20150729 00:04:58-!- cllamach is now known as Berenlut
20150729 00:05:02< loonycyborg> actually
20150729 00:05:09< loonycyborg> thosefiles have noextension
20150729 00:05:13< aquileia> .gitattributes "overrides an individual's core.autocrlf"
20150729 00:05:18< loonycyborg> git could have assumed they're binary
20150729 00:05:30-!- Tracerneo [tracerneo@unaffiliated/tracerneo] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20150729 00:06:22< aquileia> COPYING has cr lf for me, so the global setting definitely affects it
20150729 00:07:34< aquileia> shadowm: Okay, leaving both...
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20150729 00:08:58< shadowm> I'm not allowed to access my own user's Start Menu folder.
20150729 00:09:29< shadowm> The fact that people use this turd is astonishing.
20150729 00:10:13< shadowm> I guess it's because explorer has issues with it not being an actual folder.
20150729 00:10:57< aquileia> My guess would be that it's merged with the global start menu and you're trying to access the global half?
20150729 00:11:32< shadowm> > dir/al
20150729 00:11:35< shadowm> 10/26/2013  03:46 PM    <JUNCTION>     Start Menu [C:\Users\shadowm\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu]
20150729 00:11:54-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD106155092232.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20150729 00:12:28< shadowm> No, it's because explorer can't handle NTFS junction points, apparently.
20150729 00:12:51< shadowm> Which is the worst joke I've ever heard in my whole life.
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20150729 00:15:39< shadowm> It doesn't have this problem when the target is a different volume, oddly enough.
20150729 00:16:35< shadowm> It goes to show that they stopped caring about the user interface at some point.
20150729 00:18:52< aquileia> loonycyborg: How do you want the modified nsi.in for testing? I pushed it to my fork https://github.com/aquileia/wesnoth/commit/86f94a59 but I can provide it any way you want
20150729 00:19:13< aquileia> I'd prefer to have that part tested before I continue on
20150729 00:27:09< loonycyborg> make a PR I guess
20150729 00:28:20< loonycyborg> aquileia: better make a pull request. I'll test later, need to sleepnow
20150729 00:33:46-!- Portaljacker [~Portaljac@modemcable081.139-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20150729 00:43:46< aquileia> loonycyborg: For reference, this is the first column of my start menu after installing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qt65r94n5s33ybs/startmenu.png?dl=0
20150729 00:44:38< aquileia> It seems Windows 8 automatically ignores the Uninstall.exe, because it's in the start menu folder but desn't appear
20150729 00:44:52< aquileia> Well, and I'm off to sleep as well
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20150729 00:56:30< autodidact> so do you all communicate mainly via these forums
20150729 00:56:41< autodidact> do i have to make an account eh
20150729 00:57:29< shadowm> Developers primarily use IRC, and also the mailing list, but we'd certainly prefer if people engaged more with our userbase.
20150729 00:57:57-!- Shackra [~Jorge@186.177.2.148] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20150729 00:58:46< UnwiseOwl> Trying to keep users and devs on the same page can be...a challenge.
20150729 00:59:22< shadowm> I know.
20150729 01:00:16-!- irker477 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20150729 01:01:06< shadowm> But it doesn't help when developers get so detached from the people who are (like it or not) their audience that the latter begin to feel alienated and leave to do their own thing.
20150729 01:01:23< UnwiseOwl> I don't know of a decent sized project that doesn't have to face the image of a disconnect between the two on a regular basis
20150729 01:01:25< shadowm> It's something that's happened to Wesnoth, multiple times even.
20150729 01:01:38< UnwiseOwl> Teup.
20150729 01:01:47< UnwiseOwl> *yep
20150729 01:01:56< shadowm> If you don't strive to keep your players interested you don't get new contributors either.
20150729 01:02:17< shadowm> No new developers, no new artists, no new translators, and no new UMC.
20150729 01:02:34< shadowm> It becomes a lose/lose situation for everyone.
20150729 01:02:49< UnwiseOwl> But I LOVE new things :)
20150729 01:02:52< Portaljacker> it sounds like what's happening to that guy who makes ridiculous fishing, saying you don't have to like games to make games >_>
20150729 01:03:30< Portaljacker> i forgot the name of the company though :P
20150729 01:03:53< Portaljacker> where would be the best place to engage the users?
20150729 01:03:59< Portaljacker> the forums?
20150729 01:04:23< shadowm> That's the official home of our players community, yes.
20150729 01:04:47< Portaljacker> i was thinking of other places, i guess stuff like the subreddit if it's active
20150729 01:05:29< shadowm> The subreddit doesn't have much activity and I don't think it's a particularly good idea for us to mess with it.
20150729 01:05:58< Portaljacker> makes sense, i'll need to join the forums soon
20150729 01:06:16< Portaljacker> and i realized i'm looking up stuff to prepare for working on the project, and i realize i haven't played the game >_>
20150729 01:06:30< shadowm> Yeah, that's an important step. :p
20150729 01:06:41< Tracerneo> I got here from r/opensource (by complete accident).
20150729 01:06:44< Portaljacker> i got caught up in the excitement!
20150729 01:06:50< Portaljacker> i got here from /r/games
20150729 01:07:00< Portaljacker> the thread there blew up
20150729 01:07:02< shadowm> It's not very good when our developers stop playing because that means our players become solely responsible for testing and QA.
20150729 01:07:03< autodidact> ive played a bit
20150729 01:07:04< Tracerneo> And looking at code it reminds me how horrible C++ looks to me…
20150729 01:07:08< autodidact> 2 levels in the campaign
20150729 01:07:29< Portaljacker> would it be best to install it seperately from the compiled version?
20150729 01:07:35< shadowm> And players tend to shy away from testing development releases, especially when it comes to MP (which is why the dev server rarely has more than a handful of persons in it).
20150729 01:07:51< autodidact> why would it Portaljacker 
20150729 01:08:19< Portaljacker> i dunno, at work i have a stable version of the sim installed to compare to
20150729 01:08:23< shadowm> Portaljacker: Probably. If you want to play the game as most people play it, you should either install the latest 1.12.x release or check out and build the 1.12 branch on your own.
20150729 01:08:26< autodidact> i think the main loop searches for assets locally out
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20150729 01:08:54< autodidact> honestly ive only read it searching for configs, which i dont know what they contain
20150729 01:09:13< shadowm> The stable branch is always several steps ahead of the latest stable release but we generally make sure no changes land there that could potentially break things.
20150729 01:09:32< autodidact> debian has both in packages
20150729 01:09:44< Portaljacker> kk, i was mostly woried about screwing up save files or something
20150729 01:10:09< Portaljacker> but i guess if the structure of the save files doesn't change then it shouldn't
20150729 01:10:32< shadowm> THe save format between 1.12.x and 1.13.x is slightly different, enough to break things.
20150729 01:11:18< shadowm> It's not that the serialization format has changed -- it's still compressed WML -- but there have been a few changes to game state data.
20150729 01:11:25< Portaljacker> how do you handle that for old users?
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20150729 01:12:37< shadowm> The assumption is, generally, that players will start anew when upgrading from one stable branch (say 1.10) to the next (1.12). On Linux this is more or less enforced by default by the config and user data dirs scheme (one config dir for all versions, different user data dirs for each branch). The saves dir is part of the user data dir.
20150729 01:13:21< Portaljacker> i wonder if it would be possible to make a utility to convert them, basically load them as you would in the old version, then write it in the new format
20150729 01:13:48< Portaljacker> if the data is the same in both you're just converting the format
20150729 01:14:14< shadowm> It would, if people ever documented changes to the save/replay formats.
20150729 01:14:34< autodidact> haha
20150729 01:14:36< Portaljacker> lol
20150729 01:14:39< Portaljacker> makes sense
20150729 01:15:33< shadowm> It would also be even easier if our tools could actually handle WML exactly as the game does, or the game itself had built-in support for implementing that kind of conversion tool.
20150729 01:16:03< shadowm> Both approaches have their own challenges and benefits.
20150729 01:16:11< autodidact> just so im clear, are there sections of code that literally none of the named devs understand
20150729 01:16:22< shadowm> Yes.
20150729 01:16:23< autodidact> because it seems theyre referred to as black boxes by you guys sometimes
20150729 01:16:27< autodidact> thats scary
20150729 01:16:33< Portaljacker> it happens in a big project
20150729 01:16:45< Portaljacker> my team at work has 0 people that worked on the project originally
20150729 01:16:53< Portaljacker> it's been 2 years since anyone has looked at the code
20150729 01:17:02< autodidact> ive heard about that concept, yeah
20150729 01:17:09< autodidact> from my internet education -_-
20150729 01:17:21< Portaljacker> a lot of the decisions in the code we find are nonsensical
20150729 01:17:23< autodidact> taking over projects and such
20150729 01:17:30< Portaljacker> yep
20150729 01:18:05< shadowm> At least professionals are paid to deal with the horror.
20150729 01:18:06< autodidact> maybe the primary goal here should be extant documentation then?
20150729 01:18:09< Tracerneo> Where can I find Wesnoth's networking code?
20150729 01:18:51< shadowm> Tracerneo: The low level part, or the high level functions that use it? Also, for what application in particular? (add-ons server, client; MP server, client)
20150729 01:18:56< Portaljacker> the worst part is since i'm new, it takes me more than the usual forever to decipher this code i'm fixing
20150729 01:19:02< autodidact> ack socket
20150729 01:19:11< Portaljacker> so i always feel like i'm wasting their money >_>
20150729 01:19:32< autodidact> have you ever worked on a similarly sized project Portaljacker 
20150729 01:19:49< Portaljacker> not even close
20150729 01:19:54< Portaljacker> first job out of university
20150729 01:20:10< autodidact> sweet this is my first project never in university
20150729 01:20:16< autodidact> you can show me your tricks
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20150729 01:20:21< Portaljacker> this would be my second :P
20150729 01:20:27< Portaljacker> so ya
20150729 01:20:29< Portaljacker> i dunno
20150729 01:20:39< Tracerneo> shadowm: low level, high level part I could find. Mostly interested in client-server communication, isn't the code shared?
20150729 01:20:47< Portaljacker> the most useful thing to learn is how to just plow into the code to find stuff
20150729 01:21:03< autodidact> right now im acking and ctag-"ing" through the main loop
20150729 01:21:16< shadowm> Tracerneo: Yes, sans an important exception. The add-ons client is implemented with a Boost.Asio-based backend, and everything else uses an SDL_net wrapper.
20150729 01:21:23< Portaljacker> i never use those tools, but i guess that's because i don't use linux
20150729 01:21:25< shadowm> (Including the add-ons server.)
20150729 01:21:29< autodidact> reading up on some boost stuff to figure out how the cli params are parsed
20150729 01:21:40< autodidact> ah what do you use
20150729 01:22:04< autodidact> its still slow going for me, maybe im not used to it enough to be efficient
20150729 01:22:31< Portaljacker> i'm on windows, and i'm used to big IDEs
20150729 01:22:37< Portaljacker> at work i use intellij
20150729 01:22:40< shadowm> Tracerneo: All the low-level network code resides in src/network*.?pp, with src/network_asio.?pp being used for the Asio add-ons client client.
20150729 01:22:41< Portaljacker> since it's java
20150729 01:22:55< Portaljacker> for this i'll be using visual studio since it's just awesome
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20150729 01:23:21< autodidact> it sounds stupid, but i couldnt figure out how to set up a simple windows environment
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20150729 01:23:47< autodidact> i tried building some basic gl stuff in visual studio and gave up
20150729 01:24:03< autodidact> built it immediately with mingw-w64
20150729 01:24:10< Portaljacker> oh joy, sounds like i'm in for some hell :P
20150729 01:24:28< autodidact> no not for this, just a demo lol
20150729 01:24:34< Portaljacker> it's just visual studio is so nice :P
20150729 01:24:38< autodidact> quite definitely a personal problem
20150729 01:24:39< Portaljacker> the code completion stuff most of all
20150729 01:24:44< autodidact> ah
20150729 01:24:48< shadowm> Yeah, I was about to say that for Wesnoth we have instructions here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows#Visual_Studio
20150729 01:25:38< Portaljacker> i bookmarked that the first time someone posted it :P
20150729 01:25:38< autodidact> project files
20150729 01:25:56< autodidact> i imagine ill have to learn how to write those when i get actual work in this field
20150729 01:26:49< Portaljacker> meh, the project files not so much, the cmake stuff probably
20150729 01:27:18< autodidact> oh i thought they were different things
20150729 01:27:24< autodidact> makefiles i can handle
20150729 01:27:36< autodidact> arent project files some sort of db?
20150729 01:27:38< Portaljacker> i think there are both of those right shadowm?
20150729 01:27:41< Portaljacker> not really
20150729 01:27:51< Portaljacker> if i'm remembering right vs project files are xml
20150729 01:28:11< shadowm> When we mention project files we mean the stuff IDEs like Visual Studio use, which you are normally supposed to not edit by hand.
20150729 01:28:17< Portaljacker> and are a goddammed pain when you and a teammmate add files in the same folder that are alphabetically next to each other
20150729 01:28:18< Portaljacker> ya
20150729 01:28:24< Portaljacker> you use the tools in vs to edit them
20150729 01:28:33< shadowm> People just grab files and toss them in a panel somewhere to create them AFAIK, using our CMake and SCons build recipes as reference.
20150729 01:28:52< autodidact> oh
20150729 01:29:02< autodidact> -_-
20150729 01:29:19< Portaljacker> i mean dragging in a file and putting it into a folder in vs automatically adds it to the project file
20150729 01:29:31< autodidact> idk what i was thinking
20150729 01:29:36< Portaljacker> best part of the ides is how much it gets done
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20150729 01:31:33< shadowm> CMake and SCons are the two build systems we officially support (why are they two, long story) and they are the closest thing to makefiles we have.
20150729 01:31:53< shadowm> CMake in particular is just a glorified makefile generator, really.
20150729 01:33:03< shadowm> But individual developers aren't expected to "maintain" either build system beyond updating them every time a file must be added or removed, or when changing our build dependencies.
20150729 01:33:04< autodidact> yeah
20150729 01:35:19< autodidact> program_options is blowing my mind with this parentheses operator
20150729 01:37:30< autodidact> apparently that is fairly common and im just nooby
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20150729 01:51:01< shadowm> vultraz: By the way, if we really wanted to attract new users, we should do like everyone else does in the 2000s and 2010s and rebrand the game.
20150729 01:51:09< shadowm> "The Battle for Wesnoth" -> "Wesnoth".
20150729 01:51:30< shadowm> Replace the title screen logo with just a flat monochrome shield icon MS-style.
20150729 01:51:46< shadowm> Get rid of the map background since it's too realistic.
20150729 01:52:08< shadowm> Also, spell "Wesnoth" in lowercase.
20150729 01:52:28< shadowm> "wesnoth". Use a dull font for it that screams "modern".
20150729 01:52:38< shadowm> /S
20150729 01:53:03< shadowm> And don't forget throwing as many buzzwords around as possible.
20150729 01:53:25< shadowm> Cloud saves, Internet of Things, HTML5, etc.
20150729 01:53:38< shadowm> (IoT: "you can now run Wesnoth on your fridge!" or something.)
20150729 01:54:06< shadowm> And don't forget social media integration.
20150729 01:54:27< shadowm> Constant updates to Facebook and Twitter every time you play a turn.
20150729 01:54:40< autodidact> then out of left field wesnoth in clawed through paper blood red font
20150729 01:54:59< autodidact> johnny cage with nunchuka and city backdrop
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20150729 01:55:30< autodidact> 'more blood than the super nintendo version' in an explosion bubble
20150729 01:55:35< autodidact> confuse em
20150729 01:56:21< vultraz> lmao. 'vultraz just moved his errant stormtide from 3,56 to 7,58 #gameplay #wesnoth'
20150729 01:57:26< shadowm> Oh, and bitcoin donations.
20150729 01:57:41< shadowm> And cosmetic rewards for donations.
20150729 01:58:28< shadowm> Also add the option to take a selfie in the battlefield.
20150729 01:58:36< vultraz> why not
20150729 01:58:39< vultraz> :D
20150729 01:59:03< UnwiseOwl> Hypothetically what would a macro to send a message randomly picked from a list of options look like?
20150729 01:59:08< shadowm> "abou to get maced to death by a troll warrior #yolo #swag"
20150729 01:59:43< shadowm> UnwiseOwl: Is this a WML question or something about the MP stock messages NSEC task?
20150729 01:59:59< vultraz> no one says yolo anymore
20150729 02:00:02< vultraz> get up to date man
20150729 02:00:10-!- Berenlut [~cllamach@152.166.114.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20150729 02:00:35< shadowm> But that'd fit with Wesnoth's retro theme.
20150729 02:00:43< UnwiseOwl> Yolo is dead? How sad.
20150729 02:01:09< vultraz> nah dont take my word for it
20150729 02:01:12< vultraz> i dont know
20150729 02:01:40< autodidact> what self respecting hacker would know that anyway
20150729 02:01:59< vultraz> I watch Vine compls
20150729 02:02:12< UnwiseOwl> :d lel
20150729 02:02:22< autodidact> compls = ?
20150729 02:02:52< vultraz> compilations  
20150729 02:02:56< UnwiseOwl> Sorry, that was a wml question...does NSEC task sound like me?
20150729 02:03:15< UnwiseOwl> Scrubbing hard,here :)
20150729 02:03:22< vultraz> today's slang is stuff like 'fire', 'turnt', 'fleek', and 'throwing shade'
20150729 02:03:39< UnwiseOwl> I don't know ANY of those...
20150729 02:04:07< vultraz> fire = awesome
20150729 02:04:13< vultraz> fleek = on point
20150729 02:04:16< c74d> vultraz: that sounds like made-up fictional slang >_>
20150729 02:04:21< vultraz> and im not sure about the other two 
20150729 02:04:25< UnwiseOwl> Ok...now I do.
20150729 02:04:47< UnwiseOwl> Thanks, I guess?
20150729 02:04:55< shadowm> I agree with numbers, all those sound preposterous.
20150729 02:04:57< vultraz> c74d: read anything by James Dashner if you want stuff like that
20150729 02:05:03< c74d> from pulp sci-fi or something
20150729 02:05:51< c74d> I find the image of BfW units photographing themselves in battle quite amusing, though.
20150729 02:05:59< vultraz> throwing shade = trash talk apparently
20150729 02:06:02< UnwiseOwl> You sass that hoppy frood Ford Prefect?
20150729 02:06:10< shadowm> UnwiseOwl: There are primarily two ways to get what you want done.
20150729 02:06:31< shadowm> UnwiseOwl: Either use [switch] and a random number, or an array and a random number.
20150729 02:06:43< autodidact> numbers
20150729 02:06:45< autodidact> lol
20150729 02:06:54< autodidact> thats great
20150729 02:07:04< vultraz> turnt = really hyped up
20150729 02:07:06< UnwiseOwl> Will take a look at the wiki for those. Thanks 
20150729 02:08:02< UnwiseOwl> Am amazed by how BASIC most of turin's code was.
20150729 02:08:05< Ravana_> UnwiseOwl: if you have more than hundred different messages there it might be better to keep main functionality in lua
20150729 02:08:24< shadowm> UnwiseOwl: Probably because most of it was written before Wesnoth 1.0?
20150729 02:08:30< UnwiseOwl> Every single time, I'm like: This could be so much....more.
20150729 02:08:36< shadowm> Ravana_: Or use an array.
20150729 02:08:52< UnwiseOwl> Yeah, this campaign dates to 0.8
20150729 02:08:53< c74d> UnwiseOwl: the adjective "basic" emphasized, or "like BASIC"?
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20150729 02:09:11< UnwiseOwl> The first, numbers :p
20150729 02:09:18< shadowm> BASIC > WML and that's saying something.
20150729 02:09:27< shadowm> (Syntax-wise.)
20150729 02:09:43< UnwiseOwl> Nah, I'm only using maybe a dozen, Ravana, but thanks.
20150729 02:09:54< UnwiseOwl> Will avoid lua if at all possible.
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20150729 02:10:21< shadowm> That's a reasonable choice. Once you try Lua you can never go back to WML.
20150729 02:10:29< Ravana_> recently I have started to quite like lua, just as happened last summer with formula=
20150729 02:10:30< vultraz> Hail Lua
20150729 02:10:50< vultraz> Lua is fire
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20150729 02:11:10 * shadowm downvotes vultraz's comment.
20150729 02:11:34< vultraz> :|
20150729 02:11:36< shadowm> I forgot to add that to the imaginary rebranding plan.
20150729 02:11:55< shadowm> Add up/downvote to the add-ons server.
20150729 02:12:06< shadowm> Nay, to everything. You can now up/downvote units if you want.
20150729 02:12:47< UnwiseOwl> Wasn't there umc that did that?
20150729 02:13:10< UnwiseOwl> Changed prices if units by popularity
20150729 02:13:16< UnwiseOwl> Of
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20150729 02:24:18< UnwiseOwl> I'm thinking array looks easy, but how do I call to £array/random/ ?
20150729 02:25:55< Ravana_> $array[$random].value I believe
20150729 02:26:02< UnwiseOwl> Oh...random(12)?
20150729 02:28:09< UnwiseOwl> Lua docs seem to indicate math.random (12) but that's not wesnoth specific...
20150729 02:28:58< Ravana_> set_variable rand
20150729 02:29:46< UnwiseOwl> That's it. Thanks :)
20150729 02:30:07< Ravana_> even in lua I just call that
20150729 02:36:04< shadowm> Yes, math.random is a bad idea because the value is not synchronized for replays and MP games.
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20150729 02:36:38< shadowm> Also, make sure that the random range is "0..$($array.length - 1)" rather than "0..$array.length".
20150729 02:37:00< shadowm> Otherwise there's a chance you'll get the subscript past the end and an empty string.
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20150729 02:38:47< UnwiseOwl> Yeah, I guessed that.
20150729 02:43:27< UnwiseOwl> It's fine to put messages straight in an array, right? /set-variables/ name#array /literal/ x#"help I'm dead" ?
20150729 02:45:18< shadowm> Yes., assuming the / represent brackets and the # equals signs.
20150729 02:46:04< UnwiseOwl> Indeed. I blame windows phone.
20150729 02:46:42< UnwiseOwl> Or maybe poor irc client?
20150729 02:47:40< shadowm> I doubt allowing you to enter certain characters is the client's responsibility but I don't know since I've never used a smartphone.
20150729 02:47:58< Ravana_> I just noticed that lua supports print().. perhaps for next wml-generated units lists I don't need to manually cause error to get output to stderr
20150729 02:49:23< shadowm> Uh.
20150729 02:49:45< shadowm> Ravana_: Use wesnoth.wml_actions.wml_message: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/InterfaceActionsWML#.5Bwml_message.5D
20150729 02:50:13< shadowm> See also: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Events#helper.wml_error
20150729 02:50:58< shadowm> Finally, note that the semantics of print() are completey different between 1.12.x and 1.13.x (on 1.12.x print()'s output goes to stdout, not stderr, and in 1.13.x it doesn't go to either).
20150729 02:52:15< shadowm> (The main difference between stdout and stderr is that 1) stdout is buffered, meaning text may be lost if Wesnoth exits abnormally, and may also come out of order relative to stderrr; 2) on Windows, stdout is written to stdout.txt instead of stderr.txt)
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20150729 02:53:54< slick666> Hey all
20150729 02:54:02< slick666> just read this guy
20150729 02:54:04< slick666> http://www.ocsmag.com/2015/07/28/battle-of-wesnoth-doesnt-want-your-money/
20150729 02:54:37< slick666> wanted to drop by and say I've really enjoyed BFW over the years
20150729 02:54:47< slick666> want to help  if it's wanted
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20150729 02:57:32< Portaljacker> it's nice that people are being supportive :)
20150729 02:58:24< aeonchild> If you need any super, super, super basic python I'm happy to help! :D :D
20150729 02:59:41< slick666> I make my living writing Python, I figure the least I can do is helpout
20150729 03:00:23< aeonchild> I'm more of an art person. But I don't think I'm quite good enough for Wesnoth
20150729 03:01:09< UnwiseOwl> Art quality is amazing in mainline. But lots of UMC could do with artists that are still learning.
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20150729 03:01:31< aeonchild> I think all artists are still learning
20150729 03:01:35< aeonchild> Oh, okay, bye :(
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20150729 03:05:55< UnwiseOwl> I've got...oh...75 unit portraits I'd like for one of my eras...and I know there's others in a similar boat.
20150729 03:06:35< UnwiseOwl> Non-mainline stuff has a lower user base, but lower art expectations too, many of our artists started there.
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20150729 03:11:38< chaverma> i've been trying to meet up with tetha but it seems our schedules are incompatible
20150729 03:11:48< chaverma> is there another avenue i should use?
20150729 03:12:30< shadowm> The Coders' Corner forum?
20150729 03:12:45< UnwiseOwl> So now I have message# £civescape/£rando/ where # is equals, £ is dollar and / is square bracket. £civescape I the array and £rando is just rand#0..8. Correct? Close?
20150729 03:13:44< shadowm> Is there a particular reason you can' IRC from your computer? :p
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20150729 03:14:24< UnwiseOwl> Gotta keep you on your toes.
20150729 03:14:33< shadowm> You want $civescape[$random].value or whichever other attribute name you chose.
20150729 03:14:40< UnwiseOwl> Nah, on lunch break, not at desk
20150729 03:14:57< shadowm> An array entry itself can't have a singular value because it represents a WML block.
20150729 03:15:19< shadowm> Also, bbl.
20150729 03:15:23< chaverma> heh i hadn't even looked at the forums
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20150729 03:15:56< c74d> UnwiseOwl: are you using a feature-phone, that you can't type '$', '[', and ']'?
20150729 03:16:26< UnwiseOwl> I am unsure of the reason, may be the client, may be the evil window phone
20150729 03:17:01< UnwiseOwl> *windows
20150729 03:17:04< c74d> the software keyboard ought to provide some way to enter those characters, but I don't know Windows Phone
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20150729 03:18:24< UnwiseOwl> Should...doesn't seem to by default. Will do some research?
20150729 03:19:04< c74d> maybe Windows Phone keyboards are just terribly limited compared to Android's :s
20150729 03:19:39< UnwiseOwl> Nope..custom keyboards not supported. 
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20150729 03:20:24< UnwiseOwl> No big surprise there...windows...
20150729 03:20:47< c74d> doesn't need to be custom, I can easily enter all those characters from the current stock Android keyboard
20150729 03:20:50< UnwiseOwl> Hah, found me
20150729 03:21:13< UnwiseOwl> Gotta HOLD DOWN the ) ... Wtf?
20150729 03:22:32< c74d> Google's Android keyboards do that too, but they at least mark the keys (like how the number keys on standard hardware keyboards have their Shift-induced alternate values marked)
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20150729 03:23:06< c74d> (and they provide a button to switch to "special" characters entirely)
20150729 03:23:53< UnwiseOwl> Sweet...should have looked that u yesterday.
20150729 03:24:39< UnwiseOwl> Apparently a set on different emoticon buttons is more importsnt
20150729 03:24:57< UnwiseOwl> Guess they know their audience
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20150729 04:46:34< UnwiseOwl> Xara: Loving what you're doing with the campaigns! Keep it up.
20150729 04:47:06< Xara> thanks, UnwiseOwl 
20150729 04:50:28< shadowm> Xara: Has zookeeper asked you for details for your credits entry yet?
20150729 04:50:45< Xara> shadowm: no
20150729 04:50:54< shadowm> How do you want to be listed in the credits then?
20150729 04:51:47< Xara> is it ok with "Xara(Yang Yifan)"?
20150729 04:52:09< shadowm> The order is normally "real name (handles)", so it'd be the other way around.
20150729 04:52:39< Xara> ok, then just switch them
20150729 04:52:47< shadowm> ancestral: I need your credits entry.
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20150729 04:55:53< irker132> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master e4bc79c4fa46 / data/core/about.cfg: Add Xara to Misc Contributors http://git.io/vY7Ux
20150729 04:55:53< irker132> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master f2445639af77 / data/core/about.cfg: Fix a few art credits entries out of order http://git.io/vY7Up
20150729 04:56:38< pydsigner> At last heh
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20150729 04:57:24< irker132> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master c3f40b5a7d98 / data/core/about.cfg: Update Dave's credits entry http://git.io/vY7TC
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20150729 05:17:02< shadowm> Why is there an #ifdef'd-out tips entry for the feral trait? :\
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20150729 05:22:42< irker132> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master b798b1edc04a / changelog: Restore alphabetical order among changelog sections http://git.io/vY7me
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20150729 05:26:16< shadowm> Hm.
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20150729 05:29:52< irker132> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 14ffaf8a30b6 / data/core/about.cfg: Merge "English strings edition" credits section into Misc Contributors http://git.io/vY7mj
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20150729 07:11:59< zookeeper> shadowm, eh, no idea about feral
20150729 07:15:32< Kwandulin> Is there a chance to get my credits entry updated? In the last few months I made the skeleton archer / boneshooter, ulfserker, orcish archer and runesmith bob (reference: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12787&start=1065 and the following pages). Instead of listing the bobs, a more general approach is certainly better suited (so there is no need to update it every now and then). Something like "Major focus on (clone
20150729 07:15:32< Kwandulin> d) standing animations (e.g. Dwarvish Runemaster, Ulfserker, Guardsman); minor fixes" might fit
20150729 07:16:27< zookeeper> shadowm, i assume that 04951af added it inside the #ifdef unintentionally
20150729 07:16:28< shadowm> Most credits entries are absurdly out of date.
20150729 07:16:51< shadowm> zookeeper: Hm. Perhaps. I can check the IRC logs.
20150729 07:19:09< zookeeper> oh man that ocsmag article is so... well, let's say strange
20150729 07:19:33< zookeeper> "by the look of it, a bunch of 3D experts would come in handy to bring the look and feel of the game up into the second decade of the 21st century"
20150729 07:22:37< UnwiseOwl> At least they tried :)
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20150729 07:22:57< vultraz> Wesnoth is actually Westeros
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20150729 07:32:30< shadowm> zookeeper: It looks accidental, yes.
20150729 07:32:42< shadowm> The feral tips entry, that is.
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20150729 07:33:30< shadowm> Should we enable it? (Disregarding the fact that probably less than 0.2% of players ever pay attention to the tips.)
20150729 07:35:18< zookeeper> i don't see why not
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20150729 08:03:49 * legoktm reads the tips ^.^
20150729 08:04:53 * UnwiseOwl read them once...honest
20150729 08:04:55< aeonchild> Someone told me that Wesnoth is looking for campaign developers as well as programmers, is that the case?
20150729 08:06:09< aeonchild> I don't actually know WML but I could learn it...
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20150729 08:12:13< zookeeper> aeonchild, i just happened to write a post somewhat describing what was needed: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=587862#p587862
20150729 08:12:46< aeonchild> zookeeper: ah, all right. Thanks.
20150729 08:13:14< aeonchild> I'd like to help if I can, but I'm not sure how good I'd be at spotting the problems and knowing how to fix them.
20150729 08:17:45< zookeeper> well, if you want, you can still just submit improvements to dialogue or whatever else you think you'd be up to
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20150729 09:03:08< aquileia> shadowm: 'absurdly out of date'... yes, including wikiuser = "Shadowmaster"
20150729 09:03:16-!- irker132 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20150729 09:03:39< shadowm> That's not out of date.
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20150729 09:07:14< aquileia> oh, and listing LordBob and Kitty for 'generic portraits' is a bit of an understatement for our Portrait Directors
20150729 09:11:54< aquileia> I'll update that a bit...
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20150729 09:22:20< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
20150729 09:23:22< vultraz> hey
20150729 09:26:11< Elvish_Hunter> So, I just did some work on wmlindent...
20150729 09:26:24-!- irker194 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20150729 09:26:24< irker194> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 464c3d40b351 / data/tools/wmlindent: wmlindent: use startswith()/endswith() support for tuples instead of a for cycle http://git.io/vY5GD
20150729 09:26:24< irker194> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 421a736c4565 / data/tools/wmlindent: wmlindent: use print function instead of print statement http://git.io/vY5Gy
20150729 09:39:41< irker194> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master c1643892e235 / data/tools/wmlindent: wmlindent: use print function with file= argument instead of sys.stderr.write http://git.io/vY5Ra
20150729 09:39:43< irker194> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 0b92bcb9bc7c / data/tools/wmlindent: wmlindent: remove endlines which are automatically added by print() http://git.io/vY5RV
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20150729 09:50:42< Elvish_Hunter> Interesting. wmlscope uses sorted as a variable name in several places, when from Python 2.4 onwards it's a built-in function :-/
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20150729 09:55:03< Aginor> Elvish_Hunter: are you tidying it all upp to work with a newer version of python?
20150729 09:57:26< Elvish_Hunter> Well, that's one of the long term goals
20150729 09:58:07< Elvish_Hunter> For now, it was to get rid of inconsistent usages of print>>sys.stderr/out and sys.stderr/out.write
20150729 10:00:33< Elvish_Hunter> When I experimentally run the 2to3 script, the main issues found were print (of course) and some list/dictionary methods that in Python3 return a generator instead of another list
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20150729 10:02:13< Elvish_Hunter> Besides, only Python3 is receiving new features, so we'll need to move there anyway
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20150729 10:05:45< Elvish_Hunter> Don't forget that there's also the content of data/tools/wesnoth that needs to be updated, so it'll be a long work...
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20150729 10:09:13< Elvish_Hunter> Now I have to go. Bye!
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20150729 10:24:34< Aginor> hi lipkab 
20150729 10:24:51< lipkab> Hi Aginor.
20150729 10:26:01< Aginor> vultraz mentioned to me that you happen to be the person to talk to about SDL events... I've found a bug around window resizing (not detected by game) that I've been trying to resolve
20150729 10:26:38< Aginor> would you be able to spare a few minutes to chat to me on the topic?
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20150729 10:26:51< lipkab> Sure.
20150729 10:27:04< Aginor> thank you
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20150729 10:28:27< lipkab> I've been largely out of touch with Wesnoth for the last year though, so might not be able to answer every question right away.
20150729 10:28:44< Aginor> that's alright
20150729 10:28:59< Aginor> I suspect you're going to tell me it's an SDL issue, not a wesnoth issue :)
20150729 10:29:07< Aginor> I've so far only seen this on linux, and I am not sure if it's window manager specific or not. I have instrumented the code around SDL events in events.cpp (and some of the code that's invoked) in order to print the event types received and get a log of them.
20150729 10:29:53< Aginor> sorry, I've forgotten to give you the big picture in my eagerness to get to the detaisl, let me step back and give you that
20150729 10:31:16< Aginor> problem: I resize the window and game doesn't rescale any graphics to account for the new window size. Easiest way to reproduce it is to start the game, leave the window in some size and repeatedly maximise/minimise it. The game will only update graphics size every 3rd(!) maximise/minimise
20150729 10:32:12< Aginor> to gain some clarity in this, I did the instrumentation I mentioned before, and it would appear that the resize events are not received by wesnoth from SDL.
20150729 10:33:15< Aginor> lipkab: are there any event filters installed by wesnoth in SDL itself? Are the event handling running in the main graphics/event thread?
20150729 10:33:32< lipkab> Well.. I may indeed tell you it's an SDL/wm issue because it doesn't happen for me :)
20150729 10:35:06< Aginor> thanks :)
20150729 10:35:30< Aginor> I will probably not attempt to add a workaround for that in wesnoth :)
20150729 10:36:18< Aginor> at least it gave me a decent chance to poke around in the codebase
20150729 10:36:21< lipkab> IIRC there are no event filters in SDL itself and I don't see what would be the use case for that anyway.
20150729 10:37:02< lipkab> What window manager are you using?
20150729 10:37:10< Aginor> lipkab: there are, at least according to the header/documentation
20150729 10:38:10< Aginor> I'm running Mate, so the WM is Marco (Metacity derivative)
20150729 10:39:10< Aginor> I'll install a different one and give it a whirl
20150729 10:39:54< lipkab> Ubuntu's wm is known to have problems and I think they are using Metacity.
20150729 10:40:19< Aginor> hmm, I'm seeing the same problem with openbox
20150729 10:40:38< lipkab> SDL version?
20150729 10:40:44< Aginor> I don't think unity uses metacity any longer, but I haven't looked
20150729 10:42:07< Aginor> Version     : 1.2.15
20150729 10:42:07< Aginor> Release     : 17.fc22
20150729 10:42:23< Aginor> what are you running
20150729 10:42:49< lipkab> Debian jessie, SDL 1.2.12.
20150729 10:43:04< lipkab> xfwm4
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20150729 10:44:05< lipkab> Aginor: I think before you dig into Wesnoth too deep, it would be beneficial to see if this problem exists with other SDL apps.
20150729 10:44:25< lipkab> You might be able to create a dummy program yourself, too.
20150729 10:44:29< Aginor> too late ;) - But I agree
20150729 10:44:57< Aginor> I'll do that, it should be easy enough
20150729 10:45:33< Aginor> I haven't looked at the state of SDL1, is it officially without support?
20150729 10:45:43< lipkab> I think so.
20150729 10:47:55< Aginor> That's unfortunate. Looking at the release notes for libsdl makes me think they could have introduced this bug in 1.2.14 (http://www.libsdl.org/release/changes-1.2.html)
20150729 10:51:11< lipkab> Is there anything specific that makes you think so or just the numerous mentions of X11?
20150729 10:51:54< Aginor>  Prevent loss of OpenGL context when setting the video mode in response to a window resize event. 
20150729 10:52:00< Aginor>  Fixed mouse coordinate clamping if SDL_SetVideoMode() isn't called in response to SDL_VIDEORESIZE event. 
20150729 10:52:17< Aginor> they've been doing things in the code related to the handling of that event
20150729 10:52:23< Aginor> hence I'm suspicious
20150729 10:52:53< Aginor> I might try to compile against a few locally built versions and find out
20150729 10:53:22< Aginor> but I'm not sure where to take it if it does indeed prove to be a SDL issue
20150729 10:55:12< Aginor> interesting, ubuntu is shipping 1.2.12 across all
20150729 10:55:21< Aginor> so this may be a fedora specific issue
20150729 10:58:06< lipkab> Yeah, if it turns out to be an SDL bug we'll perhaps just ignore it. Debian (and hence Ubuntu) likely won't update SDL1.2 anymore and we're moving away from SDL1.2 on the longer term anyway.
20150729 10:58:38< Aginor> yes, I've been looking at some of the effort there
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20150729 10:59:06< Aginor> one of my bigger goals is to help out with that effort, but I'm not up to speed to do anything sensible there yet
20150729 10:59:19< Aginor> I need to get a better handle on the rendering engine first.
20150729 11:01:05< Aginor> lipkab: thanks for your time :)
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20150729 11:04:03< lipkab> Aginor: Actually 'moving to SDL2' and 'moving to SDL2 texture API' are two different things. The former can be done without the latter.
20150729 11:05:16< lipkab> It doesn't have a lot of benefits, since the texture API is pretty much the raison d'etre of SDL2, but technically, it can be done.
20150729 11:06:08< lipkab> ...and it has very little to do with the rendering engine. The surface API is largely unchanged between SDL1.2 and SDL2.
20150729 11:11:19< Aginor> yeah, I've been reading the porting guide in the Wiki
20150729 11:11:43< Aginor> (the SDL2 porting guide in the SDL wiki)
20150729 11:12:15< Aginor> there's plenty of code in place for SDL2 already, but I suspect it's not seeing much use
20150729 11:15:02< Aginor> is there a technical lead for the SDL2 effort?
20150729 11:16:53< lipkab> mordante used to be, but...
20150729 11:16:58< lipkab> shikadibot: seen mordante
20150729 11:16:58< shikadibot> lipkab: The person with the nick mordante 1d 7h ago they left with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20150729 11:17:04< lipkab> Wait what?
20150729 11:17:14< lipkab> He was here?!
20150729 11:17:46< lipkab> My point was going to be that "nobody's seen him in months", by the way.
20150729 11:18:00< vultraz> he join and left a few seconds later
20150729 11:18:12< lipkab> Ah.
20150729 11:18:14< vultraz> didn't linger or speak
20150729 11:19:31< lipkab> Aginor: So, with mordante becoming inactive, I became the de facto lead not because of my technical skills but because everyone else knows even less about the topic.
20150729 11:21:32< Aginor> righto
20150729 11:21:58< Aginor> I'll quietly have a bit more of a look for now, but I'm interested in helping out
20150729 11:22:42< lipkab> Great!
20150729 11:23:23< Aginor> Having thought about it a bit, I disagree with your earlier statement about it not being much use in moving to SDL2 without the rendering. I think it does, if SDL2 is actively developed and maintained then there's scope for getting upstream issues fixed :)
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20150729 11:26:03< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6887 (master - d3b58a4 : aquileia): The build has errored.
20150729 11:26:03< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73163361
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20150729 11:37:31< Aginor> lipkab: expect some patches in a few days :) I'll start out by seeing if I can make SDL2 compile again
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20150729 11:43:55< vultraz> aquileia: do you think we should make the windows icon 128 instead of 64?
20150729 11:45:08< aquileia> vultraz: The windows icon (as in '.ico' file atually used) has a layer with 256x256, but mostly uses 48x48
20150729 11:45:59< zookeeper> i don't really understand why, when you first enter a scenario, it takes a while for it to cache the terrain images or something, causing very jarring delays when scrolling the map, until it settles down and everything's smooth again.
20150729 11:46:04< zookeeper> terrain_builder::load_images gets called at rule-applying time
20150729 11:46:21< aquileia> ico files provide multiple resolutions, 48x48 is the one displayed on the desktop / app list / tile
20150729 11:46:26< zookeeper> but... apparently, it's not actually loading the images yet but only when needed?
20150729 11:46:29< lipkab> Aginor: Looking forward it ;)
20150729 11:47:03< vultraz> aquileia: even in a metro tile?
20150729 11:47:24< aquileia> I think so... do you need me to check?
20150729 11:47:57< lipkab> Aginor: Scons can compile against SDL2 btw, you only have to pass sdl2=true on the command line.
20150729 11:50:50< vultraz> no it's ok
20150729 11:50:59< vultraz> I just wondered if we needed something bigger
20150729 11:51:10< aquileia> vultraz: I know that I provide all the suggested sizes (16, 32, 48, 256) plus 60. The icon of steam.exe only provides 16, 32, 48, 256 as well (although they even have a monochrome 16x16)
20150729 11:51:54< vultraz> ancestral: so uh, that logo-big file I committed has to be replaced. I screwed up and didn't realize the file was actually 960x960 and instead downloaded the forum-downscaled 500x500
20150729 11:51:58< aquileia> vultraz: In eindows explorer, 'extra large symbols' shows the 256 version
20150729 11:52:22< ancestral> vultraz: We should be using an app like Inkscape for this
20150729 11:52:33< ancestral> It’s going to make tranlsations 1000% easier
20150729 11:52:34< aquileia> vultraz: I based the 256 on the 500...
20150729 11:52:48< vultraz> yeahh sorry guys I screwed that up bad
20150729 11:52:52< ancestral> I have some mockups
20150729 11:52:56< vultraz> but I now have a 960x and a 1920x
20150729 11:53:00< vultraz> (yes. I just said 1920)
20150729 11:53:18< aquileia> ancestral: What we really need is the source svg from which it was generated
20150729 11:53:37< vultraz> Groovy said he would send it once he cleaned it up
20150729 11:53:41< vultraz> I PMed him
20150729 11:53:47< aquileia> great!
20150729 11:54:01< vultraz> And he also included that 1920x version in his reply
20150729 11:54:03< vultraz> Anyway..
20150729 11:54:15< vultraz> He also said: "As for the small size versions, scaling down from a high resolution render actually works best, because the complex filters I've used for some of the patters (the leather for example) don't come out all that well when you render straight from SVG in small size"
20150729 11:54:38< ancestral> vultraz: Kerning and tracking the letters according to the instructions on the wiki is absolutely insane
20150729 11:54:38< Aginor> lipkab: you don't happen to have texture.hpp and texture.cpp sitting around in an uncommitted state, do you?
20150729 11:55:08< ancestral> I can show you, it can be incredibly easier in Inkscape. And you can do all the filters and effects there too, without GIMP
20150729 11:55:10< Aginor> lipkab: about scons, I noticed. I need to go and add it to cmake as well
20150729 11:55:23< vultraz> ancestral: indeed. however, groovy also volunteered to finish his attempt at a text overlay
20150729 11:55:40< zookeeper> so, when building the terrain cache, all the images needed for the map are determined... but then the images are left to be loaded lazily, causing slowdowns in-scenario? why not just load them all at that point because they'll be needed anyway?
20150729 11:55:40< ancestral> Good, so it will already be in an Inkscape file
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20150729 11:55:51< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 2daaf1bf907c / data/core/about.cfg: Add Sgt. Groovy to credits for new logo http://git.io/vYd3Z
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20150729 11:58:22< vultraz> ancestral: q - should I rescale all the logo updates i committed using the 1920x version I was sent, or the 960x I discovered was on the forums, or leave it as from the 400x I originally did it from?
20150729 11:58:56< ancestral> Can you link to them please? Or tell me the directory to look in?
20150729 11:59:25< lipkab> Aginor: No. Those files housed the wrapper class for SDL_Texture when we were going for SDL2 textures. They later became sdl/image.?pp when we turned to SDL_gpu.
20150729 11:59:50< lipkab> Any reference to them can be considered a leftover and simply removed.
20150729 11:59:58< Aginor> ok, thanks
20150729 12:00:00< lipkab> (Including ttexture objects)
20150729 12:00:33< Aginor> I'll continue looking at this over the week, it's midnight here so my bed beckons
20150729 12:00:39< vultraz> ancestral: ok this was posted back in 2013 - a 960x and a 400x: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=563207#p563207
20150729 12:00:56< vultraz> I scaled the 400x to the logo sizes we need
20150729 12:01:17< vultraz> and here's the 1920x I was just sent https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rkhgs71ihx3kkq/wesnoth-logo-1920.png?dl=0
20150729 12:01:20< ancestral> What are you using to rescale?
20150729 12:01:30< vultraz> Was just using Scale Image in gimp
20150729 12:02:15< vultraz> (after I moved the image about 10px down, btw)
20150729 12:02:31< ancestral> Normally I would say scale from the largest image you have
20150729 12:03:10< ancestral> Unless you’re scaling in vectors, in which case, scale it in vector graphics editor and then save it to smaller sizes
20150729 12:03:11< vultraz> Alright
20150729 12:03:21< vultraz> No I'm not using vectors
20150729 12:03:34< ancestral> Right, except we know Groovy used Inkscape
20150729 12:03:39< ancestral> What I’m saying is
20150729 12:03:43< vultraz> But he advised to scale the render
20150729 12:03:54< vultraz> " scaling down from a high resolution render actually works best"
20150729 12:03:55< ancestral> Do we know the source of the 400px version or the 960px version?
20150729 12:04:00< ancestral> Okay
20150729 12:04:03< aquileia> vultraz: I'd just wait for Groovy for now, no need to commit images we might replace later
20150729 12:04:33< ancestral> vultraz: So yes, scale from the largest res version you have. But I agree with aquileia
20150729 12:05:00< vultraz> Why would we need to replace them again?
20150729 12:06:21< vultraz> He said he'd send the SVG but advised on render scaling not SVG scaling.
20150729 12:06:47< ancestral> Okay, scale from the 1920px
20150729 12:06:57< aquileia> E.g. because you alwas forget to apply compression, which means the next optipng run will exchange them? ;) And perhaps we might want to commit to wesnoth/resources instead of wesnoth/wesnoth
20150729 12:07:24< vultraz> I'm going to commit the 1920 to resources
20150729 12:08:35< vultraz> But i need to fix the 64x64 and 128x128 versions in wesnoth/wesnoth
20150729 12:08:55< aquileia> vultraz: The question is - where are they actually used?
20150729 12:09:32< vultraz> well the 128 in core is used basically everywhere for [message]s
20150729 12:10:00< vultraz> the 64 in images/icons is used in the Core selection dialog
20150729 12:10:34< vultraz> I'm not sure what the 64 and 128 in icons/ are used for, though
20150729 12:12:09< aquileia> Considering we have the exact same resolutions elsewhere, we may as well delete them, I'd say (unless they're reference in code, e.g. the XCode project might link there)
20150729 12:12:37< aquileia> just a guess from the name of the 128x128
20150729 12:12:53< vultraz> ancestral: do the os x builds use icons/wesnoth-icon-Mac?
20150729 12:14:21< vultraz> (then there are these .desktop files... aren't they obsolete?)
20150729 12:15:11< ancestral> vultraz: I don’t see that file
20150729 12:15:22< vultraz> eh...?
20150729 12:15:25< aquileia> wesnoth/Sconstruct, line 638 references the icons, we should replace that
20150729 12:15:35< aquileia> hidden files...
20150729 12:15:40< ancestral> Wait
20150729 12:16:00< aquileia> would be my guess
20150729 12:16:09< vultraz> do you mean the .desktop files?
20150729 12:16:15< ancestral> Okay I see it
20150729 12:16:20< ancestral> So
20150729 12:16:39< ancestral> I think the project file reads from it. I don’t have it open atm
20150729 12:17:16< ancestral> vultraz: Basically, if we have 1024 x 1024, 512 x 512, 256 x 256, 128 x 128, 64 x 64, 32 x 32 and 16 x 16 we’ll be in awesome shape
20150729 12:18:05< ancestral> Really the icon file I make asks for those sizes
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20150729 12:22:09< aquileia> ancestral: Do you need all these resolutions in the repo or do you only need them to generate an icon file, which is then stored in the repo?
20150729 12:22:21< ancestral> The latter
20150729 12:22:26< aquileia> ok
20150729 12:22:29< vultraz> ancestral: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lncz6sp106f3fyn/AADApxh8acnBZ29F6b4G2zzIa?dl=0 all scaled directly from the 1920 (with no pixel offset)
20150729 12:22:34< vultraz> aquileia too ^
20150729 12:23:02< ancestral> Thanks vultraz!
20150729 12:23:03< aquileia> ancestral: We have a separate 16x16 version by LordBob
20150729 12:23:17< ancestral> Yes
20150729 12:23:22< vultraz> aquileia: the scaled one looks pretty good too, tho
20150729 12:23:32< ancestral> I’ll be honest, I’m not a super fan of LB’s
20150729 12:23:44< aquileia> vultraz, ancestral: https://github.com/wesnoth/glamdrol/blob/master/glamdrol/ico.png
20150729 12:24:02< ancestral> Yeah…
20150729 12:24:07< vultraz> shadowm: would you say the scaled 16x16 in that folder is better?
20150729 12:24:37< ancestral> I think we need a pixel art 16 x 16; I don’t like either version personally
20150729 12:26:11< aquileia> Well, with 16 colors in total, ico.png should count as pixel art
20150729 12:26:41< zookeeper> if we already have a handmade 16x16, isn't that the obvious choice?
20150729 12:28:41< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master c7aae07a2ffd / icons/wesnoth-logo-big.png: Removed 500x500 version of logo, since it was affected by bad scaling http://git.io/vYdEO
20150729 12:28:58< vultraz> I'm cloning resources, and I'll commit the 1920 there as soon as it's done
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20150729 12:31:19< ancestral> aquileia: 16 colors in total?
20150729 12:31:30< vultraz> Ok it seems like the scons build must use the icons in icons/...
20150729 12:32:00< ancestral> zookeeper: It’s not disintguishable enough
20150729 12:32:12< aquileia> ancestral: Yes
20150729 12:32:13< ancestral> There are odd artifacts that shouldn’t be on the shield
20150729 12:32:33< ancestral> aquileia: Why would a 16 x 16 icon need to be restricted to 16 colors?
20150729 12:32:40< vultraz> um, the updated 16x16 kinda looks really bad in win explorer
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20150729 12:32:56< vultraz> the scaled icon looks a lot better
20150729 12:33:00< aquileia> That's no restriction, it's just a cioncidence
20150729 12:33:05< ancestral> When the icon is that small you need to drop the finer details, like the scepter on the shield.
20150729 12:33:37< ancestral> aquileia: There’s nothing that requires such a small icon be limited to 16 colors. But, I do agree having a smaller palette is ideal
20150729 12:33:49< ancestral> Like most any pixel art image in Wesnoth
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20150729 12:34:08< ancestral> Maybe that means using 12 colors. Or 7. Or 28.
20150729 12:34:15< zookeeper> is https://github.com/wesnoth/glamdrol/blob/master/glamdrol/ico.png really lordbob's?
20150729 12:34:49< ancestral> One thought is drop the swords completely from the 16 x 16
20150729 12:34:55< ancestral> And just have the shield only
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20150729 12:35:02< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6888 (master - 2daaf1b : Charles Dang): The build passed.
20150729 12:35:02< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73176127
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20150729 12:35:19< aquileia> It's slightly brightened up, but it's a direct modification of his
20150729 12:35:43< aquileia> ancestral: LordBob had a version without swords, but it lost in the poll
20150729 12:36:17< aquileia> http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&p=566768#p566768
20150729 12:37:19< aquileia> Or well, it didn't, but he changed the swords afterwards
20150729 12:37:21< ancestral> Wow that shield looks hideous
20150729 12:38:27< ancestral> The original I mean
20150729 12:39:00< aquileia> shadowm: What's our stance on unofficial GPL translations for the multilingual windows installer?
20150729 12:39:22< ancestral> Anyway, sadly, the result of that poll was adding swords to appease a few people
20150729 12:56:49< vultraz> ugh.... tfw you build breaks :(
20150729 12:57:22< loonycyborg> aquileia: installer translations should be handled by NSIS devs, not us
20150729 12:57:35< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang resources:master f4583a11b7a1 / images/wesnoth-logo-1920.png: Add 1920x1920 version of the new logo by Sgt. Groovy http://git.io/vYd63
20150729 12:58:03< aquileia> Not the installer, the licence text we feed the installer
20150729 12:59:23< aquileia> loonycyborg: http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Reference/LicenseLangString
20150729 13:00:26< loonycyborg> our license is currently non localized and I'm not aware of any policy wrt it
20150729 13:01:09< aquileia> Sorry, I've got to go, bb in an hour or sso, will read the logs
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20150729 13:11:53< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 176bda844c7d / / (4 files in 2 dirs): Removed old icons/.desktop files for standalone editor app http://git.io/vYdSz
20150729 13:11:56< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 4a676317c365 / / (3 files in 2 dirs): Use BLIT() IFP to generate addon Publish/Delete images http://git.io/vYdSg
20150729 13:11:59< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 3d0bae9bd0c6 / / (4 files in 3 dirs): Updated game icons with versions downscaled from the master 1920x image. http://git.io/vYdS2
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20150729 13:17:11< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang resources:master 5d41af3842ad / image-localization/templates/bfw-logo/bfw-logo.xcf: Update logo internationalization template with new logo http://git.io/vYdH6
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20150729 13:20:08< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6889 (master - c7aae07 : Charles Dang): The build has errored.
20150729 13:20:08< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73180661
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20150729 13:25:59 * vultraz dusts off hands
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20150729 13:35:49< aquileia> vultraz: IMHO the 64x64 icons looked better before (the version you downscaled from 500x500)
20150729 13:36:08< vultraz> I downscaled from 400x
20150729 13:36:18< vultraz> but I'm thinking the same about the 128 :/
20150729 13:36:23< vultraz> what to do...
20150729 13:36:57< yacopy> hello, i want help in the project, i'm a python developer.
20150729 13:38:09< aquileia> Hi yacopy! Our main python tools wmllint and wmlindent are here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/tree/master/data/tools
20150729 13:39:56< aquileia> However, you'll probably want to sync with what tetha is planning (he/she isn't around at this time, but probably reads the logs)
20150729 13:40:10< yacopy> Ok.
20150729 13:40:38< aquileia> We also have trackplacer, which nobody is working on right now
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20150729 13:42:59< vultraz> aquileia: do you think the same about the 128?
20150729 13:43:03< vultraz> it's bugging me
20150729 13:45:07< aquileia> I think the 128x128 are about on par, so reverting the commit wouldn't hurt
20150729 13:45:24-!- Kepakiano [~Kepa@2a02:908:e50:5820:6578:7991:3f51:886] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20150729 13:45:44< vultraz> Hmmm
20150729 13:46:19< vultraz> I did want to get rid of the small pixel offset I had added originally...
20150729 13:46:30< vultraz> Let me see if I can fix the scale first
20150729 13:52:27< vultraz> this is weird :/
20150729 13:57:21< vultraz> aquileia: it's greatly improved if I scale 1920 to 400 and then scale down from there
20150729 13:59:07< vultraz> I've re-rendered the 256 down to 16 versions in my folder
20150729 13:59:33< vultraz> er, the 256, 128, 64, 32, and 16 versions
20150729 13:59:53< zookeeper> durr. TSG has _always_ had a one-word difference in the elf and bandit epilogues: "to weather the onslaught..." vs "to weather the storm..."
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20150729 14:02:43< mzs_> Hi
20150729 14:03:09-!- Appleman1234__ [~Appleman1@KD106155079029.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20150729 14:03:39< aquileia> Hi, mzs_
20150729 14:03:52-!- Tracerneo [tracerneo@unaffiliated/tracerneo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20150729 14:03:55< mzs_> Wanted to thank the developers for this game which made my time with my friends and family..
20150729 14:04:44< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master ebd712c06fe1 / / (4 files in 3 dirs): Fixup 3d0bae9bd0c6 with better renders http://git.io/vYFm3
20150729 14:05:01< vultraz> aquileia: $
20150729 14:05:03< vultraz> er
20150729 14:05:06< vultraz> ^*
20150729 14:05:08< vultraz> xD
20150729 14:05:18< mzs_> I advocate people to play wesnoth.. though around fantasy it is more real life like compareed to chess...
20150729 14:05:47-!- Appleman1234_ [~Appleman1@KD059138028112.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20150729 14:07:51< vultraz> mzs_: glad you enjoy the game :)
20150729 14:08:21< iceiceice> msz_: :D
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20150729 14:22:22< vultraz> aquileia: the only difference now is that these newer ones are slightly brighter in the highlights area. Whether that's good or not I can't tell, since I've been staring at these too much >_<
20150729 14:23:59< aquileia> vultraz: I'd leave it as-is now, it's definitely an improvement relative to directly before
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20150729 14:25:23< vultraz> alright
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20150729 14:44:23< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6891 (master - ebd712c : Charles Dang): The build has errored.
20150729 14:44:23< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73196970
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20150729 15:02:03< gfgtdf> aquileia: i wrote a comment on your pr any oponions ?
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20150729 15:06:50< aquileia> gfgtdf: I'm answering you there, will take a few minutes
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20150729 15:22:22< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 23f09050ce09 / data/core/about.cfg: Fixed an out-of-order are credit http://git.io/vYFNY
20150729 15:22:30< vultraz> dammit
20150729 15:22:33< vultraz> typo >_>
20150729 15:22:35< vultraz> art*
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20150729 15:25:41< matthiaskrgr> OMG A TYPO 
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20150729 15:33:39< aquileia> gfgtdf: Commented. Wow, that took longer than expected...
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20150729 15:45:37< aquileia> iceiceice: The travis WML tests only time out on debug configurations, where they can take up to 20min (longer than the build process itself) - perhaps we might want to deactivate them for some configurations?
20150729 15:45:42< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 52b54b48f1bd / images/game-icon.png: Updated game icon I missed. Might remove later. http://git.io/vYbkR
20150729 15:46:14< vultraz> so many game icons everywhere!
20150729 15:46:19-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20150729 15:47:03< aquileia> The grand Wesnoth rebranding project - now 100% more shiny
20150729 15:47:59< vultraz> we have images/game-icon and images/icons/icon-game
20150729 15:48:02< vultraz> >_>
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20150729 15:53:10< aquileia> vultraz: GitHub search apparently understands OR: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=game-icon+OR+icon-game
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20150729 15:53:54< Kepakiano> vultraz: I'm a CS master with a strong C++(11) background and I'd really like to contribute. what do you think is more important: work on bugs in the tracker or work some of the (NotSo)EasyCodingTasks?
20150729 15:54:21< Kepakiano> also: is there a way to find out who is working on which task?
20150729 15:55:44< jstitch> hello, a quick quesiton. A pull request I sent on github reports a conflict that must be resolved. Should I close the pull request, solve the conflict and open a new one? or wuold gitHub allow me to send a new commit solving the conflict and add it to the same pull request?
20150729 15:56:08< vultraz> Kepakiano: both are pretty important. You could start with bugs to familiarize yourself with the codebase before moving on to some NSEC tasks
20150729 15:56:11< aquileia> If someone decides to take on a task, he should add a comment to the task on the wiki page with his nickname and a timestamp
20150729 15:56:43< vultraz> jstitch: just make a commit resolving the conflict, merge the two commits, and force-push to your branch
20150729 15:57:35< aquileia> As we restructured NSEC recently, no tasks are currently marked as taken
20150729 15:58:18< Kepakiano> ah, that's good to know
20150729 15:58:26< jstitch> vultraz: thanks!
20150729 16:00:23< aquileia> jstitch: I would try git pull --rebase upstream master, it should try to resolve the conflict and offer you the chance to fix it if it can't handle it itself
20150729 16:00:53< Kepakiano> ok... I would need some help to get started. is there a tutorial on how to reproduce situations in which the tracked bugs appear? for example bug #23505 says it's not possible to move a unit on a certain tile if(some condition to its movement point = true). I would like to be able to quickly reproduce this situation in order to test my proposed solution
20150729 16:01:02< aquileia> And if something doesn't work, you can just abort the rebase
20150729 16:02:20< aquileia> Kepakiano: Debug console: ':debug' then while the unit is selected 'unit moves=1'
20150729 16:02:30-!- boucman_work [~jrosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20150729 16:02:42< aquileia> ahem... :unit (with the colon)
20150729 16:03:07< jstitch> aquileia: the conflict is on a branch I have, should the pull be on upstream master? or on upstream my_branch?
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20150729 16:03:31< Kepakiano> ah, awesome. ok, I'll familiarize myself with the command console then before I start coding :) thanks!
20150729 16:04:07< aquileia> jstitch: You try to merge in the changes done on upstream master, so you have to pull from there
20150729 16:04:27< aquileia> If you want a git guru, ask c74d
20150729 16:07:46< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master a83955fee502 / images/icons/ (6 files): Updated canvas size of preference and mp connect icons to standard sizes http://git.io/vYbcz
20150729 16:09:44< Ravana_> Kepakiano: for that bug testing :unit max_moves=1 , and :unit moves=99 would work better
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20150729 16:13:02< Kepakiano> alright, I'll look into it :)
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20150729 16:13:43< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6893 (master - 23f0905 : Charles Dang): The build has errored.
20150729 16:13:43< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73211713
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20150729 16:15:51< jstitch> aquileia: thanks, good to know! I think I can defend myself more or less on git, but a helpful hand is always nice to have. currently PR's on GitHub are still very new to me.
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20150729 16:36:15< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 94c44f56a994 / data/core/help.cfg: help: some wording improvements to terrain help http://git.io/vYb2G
20150729 16:36:18< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master c130a4848b39 / data/core/images/terrain/village/coast-tile.png: Updated Merfolk Village tile icon to go with new water http://git.io/vYb2Z
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20150729 16:43:10< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 5396e32a719a / data/core/images/terrain/water/ (reef-gray-tile.png reef-tile.png reef-tropical-tile.png): Updated Reef tile icons to go with new water http://git.io/vYbw4
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20150729 16:47:49< loonycyborg> aquileia: I tried your modified wesnoth.nsi.in, still works fine on winxp
20150729 16:48:11< loonycyborg> with my packaging process
20150729 16:48:18< loonycyborg> I found unrelated bug tho
20150729 16:48:29< aquileia> Ok, thanks
20150729 16:48:38< aquileia> what bug?
20150729 16:51:03< loonycyborg> shortcut i added recently wasn't uninstalled
20150729 16:55:09< irker887> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:master add65e316aa2 / packaging/windows/Wesnoth.nsi.in: NSIS: Properly remove (with console) shortcut during uninstall http://git.io/vYbiL
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20150729 17:06:32< irker887> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 5e87c14c2067 / data/cores.cfg: Add missing textdomain http://git.io/vYbDp
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20150729 17:10:30< vultraz> enough janitor work for tonight
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20150729 17:25:58< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6895 (master - a83955f : Charles Dang): The build has errored.
20150729 17:25:58< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73220587
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20150729 17:34:45< c74d> Someone wanted Git advice?
20150729 17:37:24< aquileia> already solved
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20150729 17:51:49< aquileia> tetha: There were a few fellow python programmers who wanted to sync their work with you - you might search the logs http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/ for your name
20150729 17:52:03< aquileia> *might want to
20150729 17:52:07< tetha> oh, thank you
20150729 17:53:05< aquileia> gfgtdf: Another lengthy respose on the PR
20150729 17:53:56< tetha> right. the forum is the preferred place to to some potentially lengthy discussions?
20150729 17:58:13< aquileia> tetha: It's definitely an option (and probably the best), the mailinglist and PR comments would be possible as well
20150729 17:58:34< aquileia> So yes, go ahead
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20150729 18:03:51< vultraz> ancestral: just a notice, i updated the 256,128,64,32,and16 logo versions in my folder. had to rerender them since the originals were looking bad.
20150729 18:03:58< ancestral> Okay
20150729 18:04:04< ancestral> Got something to show in a moment
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20150729 18:14:25< ancestral> vultraz: http://wesnoth.io/wesnoth-logo-250-compare.png
20150729 18:15:45< ancestral> (Gargantuan version: http://wesnoth.io/wesnoth-logo-1874.png)
20150729 18:17:29< vultraz> Pretty nice :D
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20150729 18:17:50< vultraz> I think the text could go just a tad to the left, though, to center on the O
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20150729 18:18:50< vultraz> but pretty nice!
20150729 18:22:35< vultraz> We'll have to hold off on the final version of the new logo until we see what groovy has, though
20150729 18:22:45< vultraz> s/logo/text
20150729 18:23:41< ancestral> Sure
20150729 18:24:11< vultraz> I assume this is what he meant to continue http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=508201#p508201
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20150729 18:32:06< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73225192
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20150729 18:56:23< tetha> oh boy, I'm rewriting markdown to bbcode
20150729 18:56:36< tetha> that's not something I've expected to do like ever.
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20150729 19:05:39< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6898 (master - 5396e32 : Charles Dang): The build has errored.
20150729 19:05:39< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73226247
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20150729 19:05:58< tetha> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=587892&sid=95759db9b070296c002bfaf9e98236be << ok, here we go.
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20150729 19:20:47< iceiceice> aquileia: re: travis, sure if you want
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20150729 19:47:33< gfgtdf> aquileia: so NSIS has alreads some options/tool to create auto updaters ?
20150729 19:48:26< aquileia> Not directly, but it has quite a few modules to expand functionality, so I'm confident it's possible
20150729 19:48:54< aquileia> But as I said, I'd rather do one-time update packages for now
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20150729 19:52:34< aquileia> That way, users on 1.12.0-1.12.4 will profit from it, and afterwards I can reevaluate the auto-update option
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20150729 19:56:11< aquileia> I still remember how I tried to integrate YAMG, wanted to implement too many features and failed in the end - it's better to keep it simple for now, I'd say
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20150729 19:58:21< gfgtdf_> aquileia: i thought fabui truied o integrate yamg ?
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20150729 19:59:44< aquileia> gfgtdf: He added the code, but it always used default parameters because we had no configuration dialog - so I wanted to write a GUI2 dialog, 2 new widgets, rewrite YAMG to our coding standards, ...
20150729 19:59:52< aquileia> you can guess how it ended
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20150729 20:03:53< gfgtdf> hm ye, but i still think an automatic updater is the way to go, at least for 1.13/14
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20150729 20:05:31< aquileia> In the long run, sure, but we'd still have the problem where we'd store the archives
20150729 20:06:13< gfgtdf> couldnt we sill ouse sourgeforce ?
20150729 20:06:47< tetha> mh, for example ublock blocks SF as a malicious site.
20150729 20:06:52< aquileia> gfgtdf: sourceforge's buissness model relies on ads while redirecting you to the actual download, so any way to circumvent that probably goes against their rules
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20150729 20:07:59< aquileia> *business
20150729 20:08:34< tetha> are github releases an option, though?
20150729 20:08:46< gfgtdf> aquileia: when i follow wesnoths main page link to sourceforge i see no ads (except 'Mirror provided by Univerity of Kent UkMirror')
20150729 20:09:12< aquileia> gfgtdf: Do you use an ad blocker?
20150729 20:09:57< aquileia> tetha: shadowm had two complaints with that option, the major one being that they can't provide the necessary bandwidth
20150729 20:10:20< gfgtdf> aquileia: y that migth be it let me try
20150729 20:10:21< tetha> ah. and that's a good one.
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20150729 20:17:47< c74d> aquileia: I recall nothing about bandwidth, not since years ago; the current issues with GH's Releases system are that shadowm dislikes the UI (and can't upload via SSH) and that the download servers don't send a HTTP header that shadowm wants.
20150729 20:18:39< aquileia> shadowm: ^
20150729 20:19:27< aquileia> c74d: If that's the case, the auto-updater would be a step closer
20150729 20:19:39< c74d> hm?
20150729 20:19:51< c74d> I don't know about an auto-updater.
20150729 20:20:26< c74d> (nor why it would be a step closer)
20150729 20:21:14< aquileia> I'm working in the NSIS script that generates our windows installer, and my plan is to provide update packages (so that windows users don't have to download the full 350MB each release) and possible add an update feature to Wesnoth
20150729 20:21:30< aquileia> *possibly
20150729 20:23:10< aquileia> the auto updater isn't going to happen soon, but if we have a server where we can use direct links to the update packages, that's the major hurdle gone
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20150729 20:27:22< shadowm> aquileia: v
20150729 20:27:45< shadowm> c74d is correct, as is almost always the case.
20150729 20:29:12< shadowm> aquileia: Last time I checked the installer didn't do translations, so I can't answer your question.
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20150729 20:30:27< aquileia> shadowm: The installer could handle translated licences, but as the FSF never cared about anyone not speaking English, they're not officially sanctioned by them
20150729 20:31:06< aquileia> So the issue is rather whether we as a project want to use them (always with the disclaimer that the English versio is legally binding)
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20150729 20:31:32< shadowm> I know all GPL translations are unofficial.
20150729 20:31:33< aquileia> And there aren't all that many translations in total on their site
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20150729 20:41:53< shadowm> vincent_c: Hi, how would you like to be listed in the packagers section of the credits? The usual format is "real name (usernames)".
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20150729 22:27:18< Tracerneo> I guess there are no binaries of stable versions for Linux in an archive, distro-independent?
20150729 22:33:37< shadowm> Tracerneo: No, not really.
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 30 00:00:06 2015