--- Log opened Mon Jul 27 00:00:53 2015
20150727 00:23:27< nuun> Playing Son of the Black Eye on Nightmare should be deemed impassable.
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20150727 01:12:09< xixor> hi
20150727 01:14:20< vultraz> hi
20150727 01:16:27< xixor> sup?
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20150727 01:22:10< xixor> ancestral: sup.  I see you guys went on a fierce dev recruitment drive.  reddit, slashdot, et. al.
20150727 01:22:29< ancestral> Yeah, the message spread pretty quickly ;-)
20150727 01:22:44< ancestral> I posted it on Hacker News and that nearly took the Wesnoth web server down
20150727 01:22:55< xixor> yeah, I hope you get some people interested
20150727 01:23:34< shadowm> Actually, I'm fairly sure it was just a timing issue. People started coming during the backup jobs timeframe.
20150727 01:23:41< ancestral> Ah
20150727 01:24:09< shadowm> That said I can't say how well it would've handled the traffic even if the backup jobs hadn't been clogging up disk I/O.
20150727 01:24:15< xixor> lol
20150727 01:24:37< ancestral> Hacker News is pretty quiet on the weekends (little news on the weekends) so posts do much better Friday night through Sunday night
20150727 01:24:49< ancestral> so that prohably contributed
20150727 01:25:04< ancestral> And I think Gambit might have posted to Reddit which brought in a lot
20150727 01:25:43< ancestral> (the non-Wesnoth subreddits)
20150727 01:26:23< ancestral> xixor: So anyway, you can say you were a part of the Wesnoth community before it was trendy ;-)
20150727 01:26:41< xixor> lol
20150727 01:26:54< xixor> by about a week
20150727 01:27:25< Aginor> xixor: that's all it takes to be cool :D
20150727 01:27:54< xixor> I wish I could help with the dev, it sounds fun.  I'm a geoscientist/HPC scientific programmer, been doing C++ for over a decade now, and have done some game dev
20150727 01:28:26< Aginor> sounds like you have the skills then
20150727 01:28:55< xixor> but between my day job, my own consulting side gig and development, my 1.5 year old son, another one on the way, and our 75 acre homestead to develop... life is just too busy unfortunately
20150727 01:29:37< ancestral> That’s okay
20150727 01:29:54< xixor> I'll stick to playing the campaigns and complaining about how hard it is
20150727 01:30:02< ancestral> There ya go :)
20150727 01:30:12< Aginor> I'm pretty busy myself, bit I figure I can join in, solve a few low-priority bugs and see if I can carve off a big enough chunk of time to attack the SDL thing
20150727 01:30:17< ancestral> And when you get bored, you can make a scenario and share it
20150727 01:31:05< xixor> yeah, that might be something.  I've browsed the C++ codebase a bit, but haven't looked at the scripting or tools that are written, or the WML(?) language
20150727 01:31:43< ancestral> WML isn’t too hard
20150727 01:32:32< xixor> why not use Lua, you already use it in other aspects of the game?
20150727 01:32:59< ancestral> I’ll defer to the other devs on that one
20150727 01:33:53< xixor> yeah, no biggie, was just curious.  I'm not that well versed in Lua
20150727 01:34:36< shadowm> Expressing data in Lua is a pain.
20150727 01:34:57< shadowm> The kind of data we handle in Wesnoth, that is.
20150727 01:36:10< xixor> ah, neat.  I'd be interested in hearing some more about your experience with this another time.  I'm curious about the merits of using Lua as a scientific scripting engine for some scientific HPC apps, rather than python, or a custom type language
20150727 01:37:29< shadowm> I probably wouldn't be able to offer any useful insight on that, considering how I'm not familiar with scientific applications and needs.
20150727 01:37:46< xixor> well, surprisingly similar to game programming in many aspects
20150727 01:39:31< shadowm> You mentioned high-perf computing. The parts of Wesnoth that are scriptable right now aren't really designed with performance in mind, and the fact that it's not a sluggish mess in practice (most of the time) is merely a byproduct of serendipity.
20150727 01:42:24< Aginor> xixor: I'm a bit curious, what kind of things would you script in lua? - I'd imagine that a lot of the python relies on scipy
20150727 01:42:29< xixor> os all the AI behaviour scripted?  I imagine that is the computationally hard part
20150727 01:43:53< shadowm> AFAIK (though this is really mattsc's domain, not mine), the AI (including move evaluation, etc.) is almost completely implemented in C++ and only select scenarios (none in mainline I believe) delegate tasks to Lua.
20150727 01:44:04< Ravana_> lua has also few specific functionalities that WML lacks
20150727 01:44:16< xixor> Aginor: well, in my instance, there would be several computationally intensive linear algebra operations that would need to be implemented in a "core", C++, Fortran/C, or possibly python level
20150727 01:45:09< shadowm> The basic AI aspects *are* scriptable but that's not used much to my knowledge, with most people instead of using the built-in implementation that only reads some configurable paramters from WML.
20150727 01:45:17< shadowm> *instead using
20150727 01:47:17< xixor> are there any high-level automated tests to ensure that the mainline campaigns/missions are playable and still work ok when core engine changes are made?  Or is that just done by player play-throughs?  This is a general question, I don't know how the big studios do this either
20150727 01:48:25< shadowm> We do it the old-fashioned way and hope nothing breaks and that people report to us otherwise. :p
20150727 01:48:55< ancestral> Wesnoth has a development branch for a reason, right? ;-)
20150727 01:49:00< shadowm> As part of the release process I make sure campaigns can be started (and that one or two can be advanced to the next scenario without errors or weirdness) but that's about it.
20150727 01:49:36< Aginor> shadowm: are there any people in the community that do any significant testing?
20150727 01:49:49< Aginor> (i.e. testers)
20150727 01:52:02< xixor> Do most people still play single-player campaigns against AI?  or are most games co-op?  or head-to-head online matches?  I'm curious if anyone knows the stats of how the "clients" are using the game
20150727 01:54:01< Ravana_> I believe it is mostly impossible to tell what players do in single player
20150727 01:54:10< shadowm> Aginor: Dedicated testers? Not really, unfortunately.
20150727 01:54:39< shadowm> xixor: Yes, people definitely still play single-player.
20150727 01:55:37< xixor> I only really play the main campaign, and full disclosure, I suck at it, I don't think I've made it past mission 4 or 5
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20150727 01:55:47< xixor>  but, I suck with style
20150727 01:55:49< shadowm> We don't have metrics or instrumentation to generate them, but a single glance at the official forums reveals that people still make both SP and MP content and receive feedback on both.
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 28 00:00:20 2015