--- Log opened Sun Aug 02 00:00:32 2015
--- Day changed Sun Aug 02 2015
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20150802 00:07:59< Xudo> shadowm, I read your idea again. It still is not clear what will happen if add-on developer will increase version number of his add-on. Will new version overwrite previous one on the server storage?
20150802 00:08:31< shadowm> Yes.
20150802 00:08:47< shadowm> That's how it's worked ever since Wesnoth gained an add-ons server in 2004 or so.
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20150802 00:08:56< Xudo> Ok
20150802 00:11:30< Xudo> What exactly is a subject of dependency? WML macros? Events? Or high-level things like unit_type?
20150802 00:12:37< shadowm> I think you are confusing language here.
20150802 00:13:11< Xudo> Probably.
20150802 00:13:40< shadowm> Add-ons can declare dependencies between each other. Why and how those dependencies get used is up to the add-on authors.
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20150802 00:13:44< Xudo> I try to say it in other words
20150802 00:14:25< shadowm> This has always been the case and will continue to be, with the added bonus of there being UI functionality to enforce this where currently there isn't any.
20150802 00:14:59< shadowm> (Other than the dependencies prompt you get when installing an add-on that has dependencies. The point is that currently all dependencies are assumed optional and the player is given the option to *break* add-ons without warning.)
20150802 00:15:48< Ravana_> do you plan to make ADDON_VERSION:Addon_Id reachable by Lua too?
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20150802 00:16:15< Ravana_> like wesnoth version is currently
20150802 00:16:49< shadowm> Sigh.
20150802 00:17:36< shadowm> Ravana_: "blah blah blah ADDON:Addon_Id ADDON_VERSION:Addon_Id yadda yadda. Whether and how some or all of this information is going to be exposed to Lua will be decided at a later time."
20150802 00:17:47< shadowm> Last sentence before the last code snippet.
20150802 00:18:29< shadowm> I'm not in a hurry to decide that part because you can already expose preproc context information to Lua if you know how to do it.
20150802 00:18:44< Xudo> If they are not optional what if I rely on the version which is older than one at the add-on server? Will I get "add-on loading error"?
20150802 00:18:52< shadowm> E.g. using a trick like here: https://github.com/shikadilord/After_the_Storm/blob/master/base-loader.cfg#L44
20150802 00:19:43< shadowm> Xudo: If your add-on requires versions older than a certain version then it's your own fault and your users will get an error message, yes.
20150802 00:20:19< shadowm> You (will) have the choice between <, <=, >, >=, ==, and !=. It's up to you to not screw everyone over with your choice.
20150802 00:21:01< Xudo> Ok. How many abandoned add-ons  on the add-on server in wesnoth?
20150802 00:21:14< shadowm> A number.
20150802 00:22:00< shadowm> Also, there's a last option which is in fact the default: to not depend on a particular version number.
20150802 00:22:46< Xudo> In this case it is really better to carry all dependencies inside
20150802 00:23:02< shadowm> Okay. You can do that too.
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20150802 00:23:27< pydsigner> re abandoned: it's a big number
20150802 00:23:33< shadowm> Let me reiterate: I'm not specifying "best practices" for add-ons.
20150802 00:24:17< shadowm> I don't care if you grab 8 add-ons and stuff them all into a single monolithic 120 MiB pack. That's your choice, and the manifest model does absolutely nothing to discourage or encourage sloppy design practices like that.
20150802 00:25:26< shadowm> It only provides syntactic sugar to make inter-addon dependencies (which already exist in several non-obvious ways besides the .pbl's dependencies field) more obvious to users.
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20150802 00:26:12< shadowm> In the user interface.
20150802 00:27:31< Xudo> I'll think about it.
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20150802 00:55:30< loonycyborg> shadowm: ok I updated the page as you suggested
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20150802 01:12:29< vultraz> shadowm: what happens if you have an enabled addon with includes to another, disabled addon that it does not require?
20150802 01:12:59< vultraz> Or not even include. Say an #ifhave like we do with our music packs
20150802 01:13:56< shadowm> Then you are doing things the old-fashioned way. If you include the other add-on's files from yours, you will be fine. If you expect the other add-on's files to be included automatically by Wesnoth, you'll be in trouble.
20150802 01:15:52< shadowm> AtSM doesn't include any WML itself and expects AtS to declare a [binary_path] involving it, so it'll be fine even if it's disabled.
20150802 01:16:46< shadowm> (If the mode manifest attribute is implemented, AtSM would be a perfect fit for the mode=none option.)
20150802 01:17:37< vultraz> How exactly do you intend to disable addons?
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20150802 01:18:01< vultraz> And make that information persistent?
20150802 01:18:49< shadowm> The game will store that information in the add-ons config file (from the user's config dir, not the add-ons dir).
20150802 01:19:57< shadowm> The game enumerates the contents of the add-ons dir at load time. If it sees a name that's marked disabled in the configuration, it will skip its _main.cfg.
20150802 01:21:04< vultraz> That makes sense
20150802 01:22:34< shadowm> As for why it's a separate config file: firstly, why do we stuff *everything* into a single file right now? It's only because you are all lazy people.
20150802 01:22:41< shadowm> Let's be honest.
20150802 01:23:39< shadowm> Whenever it comes to hand-fixing the preferences file for whatever reason, you are required to wade through an ocean of cruft you don't care about, including the encountered_<stuff> lists and the hotkey definitions.
20150802 01:24:49< vultraz> A suggestion: if _manifest.cfg will be mandatory and _server.pbl reduced to passphrase and email, why not, in the event of a missing _server.pbl, provide a small dialog with those fields as textboxes, and a toggle button to write the values to a _server.pbl file in <addon_dir>? That would either allow people to provide a _server.pbl, or simply just enter their passphrase at upload via the...
20150802 01:24:50< vultraz> ...client UI.
20150802 01:25:06< shadowm> Nah.
20150802 01:25:11< vultraz> Only problem with that is I *think* the _server.pbl would still serve as an 'upload me!' flag
20150802 01:25:18< vultraz> so... that might not work
20150802 01:25:29< shadowm> I considered the option of adding a .pbl creation UI back in 1.9.x years ago.
20150802 01:26:26< shadowm> I canned it because it didn't seem to serve any purpose other than making it easier for really, really lazy people to toss a bunch of crap into a folder, launch Wesnoth, upload their cool awesome new add-on without reading any documentation at all, and then call it a day.
20150802 01:26:42< vultraz> Eh, true.
20150802 01:27:49< shadowm> We should make the documentation more accessible (perhaps add a link somewhere in the UI and/or help system), but not make the process trivial enough as to lower the barrier for low effort submissions.
20150802 01:28:18< vultraz> If you really wanted to get fancy you could tie your addon server content in with your MP/forum login, but that would require basically implementing user accounts, so that's, to quote jet, a pipe dream at this point.
20150802 01:29:01< shadowm> It's not so much a pipe dream as it is a tedious chore I want to tackle at some point before 1.16.x.
20150802 01:29:43< shadowm> I didn't publish the parts of the manifest syntax proposal that referenced the existence of a new authentication mechanism.
20150802 01:30:06< shadowm> That's something to figure out at a later point once the core functionality is in place.
20150802 01:30:24< shadowm> I.e. I'm trying to deal with only one problem at time.
20150802 01:30:28< shadowm> *at a
20150802 01:32:48< vultraz> There would be a few things to figure out, yeah..
20150802 01:33:21< shadowm> This water really needs better highlights.
20150802 01:33:26< vultraz> For example, if metadata were associated with your account, would it be possible to populate the relevant fields of your addon's _manifest.cfg somehow?
20150802 01:33:42< shadowm> Uh, no.
20150802 01:34:02< shadowm> The only field where you might remotely want to do that is the author field, and even then that seems unnecessary.
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20150802 01:34:56< vultraz> Or what about using an account password an an auth for addon uploads?
20150802 01:35:27< shadowm> What.
20150802 01:35:39< shadowm> How is that any different from this above: 22:28:20 <vultraz> If you really wanted to get fancy you could tie your addon server content in with your MP/forum login,
20150802 01:36:09< shadowm> Or you mean implementing an entirely separate authentication scheme from the wesnothd/phpBB pair? No thanks.
20150802 01:36:23< vultraz> I meant an alias for passphrase
20150802 01:36:36< shadowm> Uh.
20150802 01:36:52< shadowm> If I added phpBB auth support it'd be for the express support of getting rid of the passphrase nonsense.
20150802 01:36:57< shadowm> Support?
20150802 01:36:59< shadowm> I mean purpose.
20150802 01:37:15< vultraz> Well then we think alike.
20150802 01:37:36< shadowm> Then whoever first uploads gets to keep control of the add-on unless they add the following field to the .pbl:
20150802 01:37:55< shadowm>     uploaders=<string>              # Comma separated list of authorized forum accounts, takes precedence over legacy auth
20150802 01:40:18< vultraz> Makes sense.
20150802 01:40:22< vultraz> Two more question:
20150802 01:41:03< vultraz> To make sure, the ADDON:id would not replace campaign defines/extra defines at all, right?
20150802 01:41:51< vultraz> Second, how would fix conflicts of terrains in the editor?
20150802 01:42:52< shadowm> Yes, the ADDON:* symbols are a separate layer to the campaign defines.
20150802 01:43:20< shadowm> It's not possible to merge both without leaving use cases like the No Randomness Mod out in the cold.
20150802 01:43:52< shadowm> Second, it's simple. You get to disable/enable add-ons as needed when you want to use the editor.
20150802 01:44:29< vultraz> I would hope the interface would be easy to access, then
20150802 01:45:04< shadowm> It'll probably have two access points -- one in the add-ons menu, and another in the editor.
20150802 01:45:26< vultraz> Since, say, if someone wanted to disable IftU in order to display all terrains in AtS, it would be a pain to go to the dialog, disable the addon, then go in the editor, draw, exit, go to the dialog, re-enable IftU, then play again 
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20150802 02:38:48< mattsc> ancestral: hello again  ;)
20150802 02:39:00< ancestral> mattsc: Hiya
20150802 02:39:15< mattsc> Did you see my notes to you from earlier today, and the followup exchange with vultraz 
20150802 02:39:18< ancestral> I’m going to build against master tomorrow
20150802 02:39:22< ancestral> I did see your notes
20150802 02:39:44< mattsc> okay, cool
20150802 02:40:07< ancestral> I believe I saw the conversation with vultraz, though I don’t specifically recall the exact message
20150802 02:40:27< vultraz> Basically I said we should just support what works for the build
20150802 02:41:13< vultraz> Optimally that would at least be 10.8 or later
20150802 02:41:21< vultraz> and just drop anything below that
20150802 02:41:36< vultraz> that seems sufficient, IMO
20150802 02:42:31< ancestral> mattsc: What did you do to build the libs?
20150802 02:43:10< mattsc> ancestral: I did a Macports universal build
20150802 02:43:17< ancestral> Ah kay
20150802 02:43:46< mattsc> And then I only replaced the modules, since replacing that had been sufficient to get your build working on my computer previously
20150802 02:44:04< ancestral> mattsc: Something we don’t need to decide right now, but if we are dropping 10.6 and 10.7, might as well make it 64-bit only
20150802 02:44:10< ancestral> tunnel… brb
20150802 02:44:40< mattsc> now there’s an inventive excuse!
20150802 02:44:52< mattsc> I usually just claim that I am going to the loo.
20150802 02:45:05< mattsc> Or that I have to read storied about bunnies.  ;)
20150802 02:47:53< ancestral> back again
20150802 02:48:07< ancestral> Hehe
20150802 02:48:32< mattsc> ancestral: sure, if we only support back to 10.8, that makes sense
20150802 02:49:07< mattsc> I would like to figure out how to provide builds that go back to 10.6, but frankly, I currently don’t know how to do that.
20150802 02:50:05< mattsc> When I build with the 10.10 SDKs and deployment target set to 10.6, it crashes on a 10.6 computer because some of the core frameworks have moved
20150802 02:50:48< mattsc> If I try to build with the 10.6 SDKs, I get a linker error because some libraries don’t exist; and copying/linking them in results in compiler errors
20150802 02:51:02< ancestral> Hmm
20150802 02:51:09< mattsc> ancestral: so at this point, I simply don’t know what else to do to get it working on 10.6
20150802 02:51:47< ancestral> Yet we were fine with 1.12
20150802 02:52:29< mattsc> that’s because all the libraries were built on 10.4, and then we kept using them with the 10.4 SDKs 
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20150802 02:54:19< mattsc> Well, that’s my interpretation at least
20150802 02:55:08< mattsc> So there’s probably some way of doing it, I agree, but at least at this time, it’s beyond what I know about these kinds of things.
20150802 03:14:30< Aginor> mattsc: I suspect you need to build and ship your dependencies as well, not just the wesnoth binary
20150802 03:14:58< Aginor> (ie, libjpeg, SDL_*, cairo, etc)
20150802 03:15:12< mattsc> Aginor: yes, that’s what we have done
20150802 03:15:19< Aginor> could you build a statically linked version otherwise?
20150802 03:15:53< mattsc> In fact, I did not say that because ancestral knew what I was talking about, but what I meant up there is that I rebuilt pango using Macports
20150802 03:16:10< mattsc> Aginor: possibly, probably, ...
20150802 03:16:10< Aginor> ah
20150802 03:18:09< mattsc> Aginor: the pango libraries were the reason why the 10.10 version previously did not even work on 10.9 and vice versa.  Now we have at least that problem solved.
20150802 03:18:22< mattsc> But the problem with 10.6 is different.
20150802 03:19:00< mattsc> Some of the core system frameworks are in different places in 10.6 than starting from 10.7 (or 10.8).
20150802 03:19:20< Aginor> ah
20150802 03:19:35< Aginor> soundslike you would have to massage the build system for that
20150802 03:19:51< Aginor> have it search in different locations based on OS version
20150802 03:19:58< mattsc> And yes, there surely is a way around that, but (others have heard me say that before, I don’t know if you have) I really don’t know what I am doing …
20150802 03:20:16< Aginor> I haven't, I'm all new :)
20150802 03:20:47< mattsc> Yes, either that, or build static libraries, or include those framworks in the resources also, or ...
20150802 03:21:11< Aginor> hmmz
20150802 03:21:32< Aginor> is there a bug raised for this that I can read?
20150802 03:21:41< mattsc> Well, I really don’t have any CS background at all; I do some coding for work for data analysis, but mostly with really high-level languages - Matlab or IDL or the like
20150802 03:21:56< mattsc> if those are even called languages  :P
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20150802 03:22:11< Aginor> they count :)
20150802 03:22:34< mattsc> I did take one semester of Fortran in college.  ;)
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20150802 03:22:47< mattsc> which, I know, dates me to some extent
20150802 03:22:49< Aginor> different kettle of fish too though
20150802 03:23:45< Aginor> so the obvious question to ask is; Is it worthwhile to support 10.6? What's the user base on it? Is it sucking resources that can be better spent somewhere else?
20150802 03:24:23< mattsc> Well, we still have people on 10.5.  So my guess is that there are certainly people on 10.6 out there.
20150802 03:24:33< mattsc> But I cannot tell you how many there are 
20150802 03:24:54< Aginor> mmm
20150802 03:25:17< Aginor> is it worthwhile to support an OS that has been EOLed by the vendor?
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20150802 03:26:44< mattsc> Aginor: I could argue that either way
20150802 03:26:53< Aginor> I'm just asking because it is the same questions I'd ask at work ;)
20150802 03:27:06< mattsc> But the practical answer is simply: I don’t know how to make a DMG for 10.6
20150802 03:27:18< Aginor> fair enough
20150802 03:27:28< Aginor> I don't have access to a 10.6 setup so I can help
20150802 03:27:52< pydsigner> BfW still supports XP so....
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20150802 03:28:29< pydsigner> Although I'm sure that 10.6 has a much smaller user-base both as a raw number and as a percentage of OS X users in general
20150802 03:28:44< mattsc> Aginor: I agree in general, but I also come in from another side.  This is a free game, and it sucks if some multi-billion company dictates that I need to buy a new computer so that I can play a free game.
20150802 03:29:11< Aginor> mattsc: I agree with that :D
20150802 03:29:22< mattsc> On the other hand, well, life isn’t fair.  And this is a volunterr project.  If you want a 10.6 build, make one yourself.  :P
20150802 03:29:40< mattsc> Anyways, entirely seriously though, here’s my take.
20150802 03:29:42< Aginor> but maybe they have to accept that they have to use an older version of the game if they want to stick with their old computer
20150802 03:30:23< mattsc> I don’t know how to build a DMG for 10.6, and all I have seen so far is that figuring it out (for me) will take more time than I have.
20150802 03:30:45< mattsc> (And I think ancestral is in the same boat, but I don’t want to speak for him.)
20150802 03:30:46< Aginor> I don't have a strong preferece either way, and given that this is a volanteer project I would have different expectations :)
20150802 03:31:29< mattsc> So, I’ll give you a build that works back to 10.8  (assuming the one from this week will work on 10.8)
20150802 03:31:49< pydsigner> To me, since the 1.12 series still runs on these old OSes, and 1.14 is still hazy futureware, there's time to wait on that and not fret about the 1.13 unstable dev builds
20150802 03:31:55< mattsc> We’ll also set up a system, via homebrew, how you can relatively easily build 1.13 yourself.
20150802 03:32:36< Aginor> I think homebrew is one of the most popular things at the moment anyway, more so than macports, but I might be biased
20150802 03:32:38< mattsc> Both of that is feasible, I believe, with the current people (ancestral and myself)
20150802 03:33:18< Aginor> yup
20150802 03:33:29< mattsc> So unless we find somebody else who either has the time to figure it out or knows it already, that’s how it’s going to be.
20150802 03:34:05< mattsc> I’d like to build a DMG that works back to 10.6, but it’s just not going to happen without help.,
20150802 03:34:19< mattsc> And I think what I suggest there is reasonable enough.
20150802 03:34:24< Aginor> based on what I'm reading, I don't think it's possibl
20150802 03:34:28< Aginor> possible even
20150802 03:34:51< mattsc> Well, don’t take my word for it; as I said, a lot of that is based on inference rather than knowledge
20150802 03:35:13< Aginor> you've looked at it more than anyone else here, you probably know the best
20150802 03:35:47< mattsc> I doubt that, I bet crimson_penguin knows a lot more about it than I do.  :)
20150802 03:36:04< mattsc> I like pinging him from time to time to keep him on his toes.  :D
20150802 03:36:13< Aginor> evil :D
20150802 03:38:02< mattsc> Anyways, what I just outlined there is the best that I’m going to be able to do.  If somebody else wants to try and eventually maybe take over, I believe both ancestral and I would be more than happy.
20150802 03:38:22< Aginor> fair enough
20150802 03:38:35< Aginor> mattsc: what is it you mainly do, or are happy doing?
20150802 03:39:22< mattsc> Oh, I’m happy fiddling with code, such as my failed attempts to write AIs, but mostly what I am doing is astronomy.
20150802 03:41:18< Aginor> cool :)
20150802 03:42:03< mattsc> Aginor: I think so.  :)  I have to sign off now though.  I’ll be happy to chat more some other time.
20150802 03:42:23< Aginor> have a nice day/evening/night
20150802 03:42:45< mattsc> thanks, you too
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20150802 04:57:12 * crimson_penguin is on his toes
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20150802 07:52:56< Aginor> got SDL2 compiling with the game, but I can't get to the title screen yet...
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20150802 08:07:08< irker763> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 54a006383b60 / data/tools/wmllint: wmllint: automatically handle values above 255 when converting to Pango http://git.io/vOZ6b
20150802 08:07:08< irker763> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 522778503434 / data/tools/wmllint: wmllint: use print function http://git.io/vOZ6N
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20150802 08:44:11< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6928 (master - 5227785 : Elvish_Hunter): The build has errored.
20150802 08:44:11< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73751025
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20150802 09:23:45< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6928 (master - 5227785 : Elvish_Hunter): The build was fixed.
20150802 09:23:45< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/73751025
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20150802 09:59:13< Aginor> And that's been fixed too... Expect a pull request shortly
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20150802 11:56:54< Xudo> Good day. My name is Xudo and now we are going to compile wesnoth with MSVS2015.
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20150802 12:15:05< Appleman1234> lol
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20150802 12:35:01< doofus-01> How much freedom does a campaign maintainer have in regards to the art department?
20150802 12:35:20< doofus-01> Do we still go through the forums for Jetrel's approval?
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20150802 12:40:01< doofus-01> I mean for scenery and terrain, not portraits for story screens.
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20150802 12:41:41< doofus-01> The big gate in SoF looks nice, by the way.
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20150802 12:56:11< zookeeper> doofus-01, there's no formal requirement to go through jetrel for example
20150802 12:57:01 * zookeeper recalls spending quite a bit of effort on the gate
20150802 13:03:18< doofus-01> OK thanks, zookeeper.
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20150802 13:07:29< zookeeper> of course the expectation is that a maintainer doesn't just litter a campaing with crap art, but there's no need to specifically ask for permission
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20150802 13:11:51< Xudo> great. Official page of SDL_Image contains only links to libraries for SDL2
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20150802 13:34:06< wedge009> https://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_image/release-1.2.html
20150802 13:37:12< Xudo> Thank you
20150802 13:37:51< Xudo> I think I should add this link to our compiling guide on the wiki
20150802 13:39:03< wedge009> No worries. Took me a week to get a working build in VC 2008. Biggest hurdles were Boost generation and GTK dependencies. And also which DLLs were needed at run-time. Of course, I'm completely new to Wesnoth code, so you'll probably fare better.
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20150802 14:07:29< Xudo> shadowm, another question about add-on API. Are you going to notify add-on maker what his add-on uses old dependency?
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20150802 14:37:26< Xudo> I found that MSVS2015 defines snprintf by default and I need to make changes in code to fix "macro redefinition" issue
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20150802 17:46:26< zookeeper> mattsc, the contents of data/ai confuse me. there's ais, formula, lua, micro_ais... i surmise that if i want to use formula/level_up_attack*, then i need to add those to micro_ai_wml_tag.lua and then <something>. is that right?
20150802 17:47:19< doofus-01> zookeeper, vultraz, anyone else who might care: I've put what I am going to get done in PR 436. 
20150802 17:47:26< doofus-01> until next week, at least.
20150802 17:47:41< doofus-01> It involves the first 2 scenarios of SoF.
20150802 17:47:52< doofus-01> and the following cutscene.
20150802 17:50:04< mattsc> zookeeper: some of the stuff in data/ai is left over from a long time ago, and I don’t even know if it all works.  formula/level_up_attack* is one example of that.  It’s not the level-up attack code we were talking about a couple days ago.
20150802 17:50:32< zookeeper> doofus-01, well that gate stuff is curious, i'll try to look at it sometime soon...
20150802 17:51:01 * zookeeper should avoid saying "sometime soon" because it seems to always mean "in a long time" -.-
20150802 17:51:15< mattsc> zookeeper: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commits/master/data/ai/formula/level_up_attack_eval.fai
20150802 17:51:32< zookeeper> mattsc, oh? right.
20150802 17:51:33< doofus-01> zookeeper - I did that because the animation did not play for me.
20150802 17:51:33< mattsc> written 7 years ago
20150802 17:51:59< mattsc> zookeeper: let me look up what I was talking about.  I think it came with instructions how to use it.
20150802 17:52:39< doofus-01> mattsc - do you know if  {ai/aliases/stable_singleplayer.cfg} is obsolete?
20150802 17:52:42< zookeeper> doofus-01, you did have terrain animations on, right? :P
20150802 17:53:11< doofus-01> zookeeper - yes.  Animations often skip for me, first time through.
20150802 17:53:43< doofus-01> I'm probably not the only one.
20150802 17:53:50< zookeeper> i think it might skip simply because it's loading the images (and by the time it's done, the frame has ended)
20150802 17:54:08< doofus-01> yeah.
20150802 17:54:26< mattsc> doofus-01: That question sounds familiar.  I think somebody else (vultraz maybe?) asked it recently or something.  Give me a second to try to remember…
20150802 17:54:33< zookeeper> incidentally i've been trying to write something that'd pre-load all images needed by the terrain rules in a scenario
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20150802 17:56:14< zookeeper> unfortunately it's kinda hard to tell how exactly it should be done, and i haven't had much luck yet
20150802 17:57:08< mattsc> zookeeper: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41009#p576100
20150802 17:58:44< mattsc> doofus-01: so IIRC what’s going on is that  {ai/aliases/stable_singleplayer.cfg} is not needed in scenarios that only use the default AI.  It gets included automatically in that case.
20150802 17:58:56< zookeeper> great, thanks
20150802 17:59:20< mattsc> However, if a different engine (FAI or Lua) is defined, then those are used and the default CAs are not included.
20150802 17:59:46< mattsc> So in that case, you need to include it manually if you also want to have the default CAs in addition to the custom engine.
20150802 17:59:59< doofus-01> mattsc - OK, thanks.  Is that per side or per scenario?
20150802 18:00:00< mattsc> doofus-01: so it’s not obsolete, it’s just not usually needed.
20150802 18:00:02< zookeeper> mattsc, i take it that you're not about to make it into a micro AI anytime soon?
20150802 18:00:10< mattsc> doofus-01: that’s per side
20150802 18:00:24< doofus-01> OK, thanks.
20150802 18:01:16< mattsc> zookeeper: I’m not going to make it a micro AI without feedback, but I am happy to do so if people think that it is worth it.
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20150802 18:02:20< zookeeper> mattsc, ok, well, i guess i'll wire it into the TSG scenario and see how it works
20150802 18:02:56< Xudo> Is it possible that wesnoth.lib parser.obj relies on function which exists only in old version of Boost? Is it possible source of unresolved external symbol error?
20150802 18:04:03< vultraz_iOS> mattsc: yes it was me who asked that
20150802 18:04:18< mattsc> zookeeper: I’m just undecided about what to do about the open questions and known problems and would prefer some feedback on those before making it mainline.
20150802 18:04:54< mattsc> vultraz_iOS: okay, thanks for confirming
20150802 18:07:40< zookeeper> mattsc, frankly, if it actually works, i think it's something the core AI should do by default
20150802 18:07:52< zookeeper> refusal to attack near-leveled units is more like a bug, after all
20150802 18:08:39< Xudo> I used this bug quite much playing wesband =)
20150802 18:09:43< mattsc> zookeeper: I entirely agree.  In fact, I avoid taking advantage of it when I play campaigns.  :)
20150802 18:10:18< vultraz_iOS> Really like the new caravan sprite
20150802 18:10:52< mattsc> But having said that, I really don’t care if other people use it (just like save loading, using debug more, or whatever; all of which I do use when I feel like it)
20150802 18:12:37< mattsc> zookeeper: the main problem is the decision when to use it.  If we simply said “always attack units 1XP from leveling”, that’s easily doable, but might not be the best course of action.
20150802 18:12:56< mattsc> I’ll be afk for ~20 min
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20150802 18:56:19< mattsc> patrickB: hi - are you PBechon on github?
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20150802 18:57:27< mattsc> If so, thanks for fixing the compiler error.  I had gotten around it for the time being by disabling strict compiling in Xcode  :P
20150802 18:58:04< mattsc> You might want to ping gfgtdf about this, although he’ll probably see it even without.
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20150802 20:25:17< Aginor> shadowm: ping?
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20150802 20:36:27< Glorfindel_> hello
20150802 20:39:01< pydsigner> Hi
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20150802 21:53:14< aquileia> Xudo: wesnoth compiles for me on VC with boost 1.58
20150802 21:56:14< aquileia> wedge009: WRT boost, the external package already has boost 1.58 for VC2008, and there are instructions how to compile it for other versions (compiling boost for VC is a two liner)
20150802 21:57:48< aquileia> wedge009: If you plan to compile the GTK libs: https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Projects/GTK+/Win32/MSVCCompilationOfGTKStack
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20150802 22:03:56< aquileia> The external repo also contains SDL_image 1.2.11
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20150802 22:40:07< Verra> is there an easy way to stop the build from recreating mo files every time?
20150802 22:43:07< shadowm> Aginor: Hi. 
20150802 22:43:25< shadowm> Verra: Do you need translations?
20150802 22:43:33< Verra> negative
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20150802 22:44:22< shadowm> Then use nls=false (SCons) or -DENABLE_NLS=OFF (CMake): https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/INSTALL#L218
20150802 22:44:42< Verra> thanks
20150802 22:47:28< Verra> hrm
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20150802 23:13:20< Aginor> shadowm: I've made the first of what I hope to be many pull requests that are related to SDL2, I'd like to have a chat at some point about a roadmap for getting to SDL2
20150802 23:13:43< Aginor> I'm at work at the moment though, so I shouldn't spend too much time doing other activities :)
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20150802 23:53:48< wedge009> aquileia: Thanks, but I was being stupid and compiling everything from scratch before I found out about that package. Oh well, it was a good learning experience, I suppose.
--- Log closed Mon Aug 03 00:00:02 2015