--- Log opened Thu Aug 06 00:00:05 2015
20150806 00:00:38< gfgtdf> shadowm: hm ok ty
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20150806 00:15:16< celticminstrel> I get this error in the console log: " Pango-WARNING **: failed to choose a font, expect ugly output. engine-type='PangoRenderCoreText', script='latin' "
20150806 00:15:30< celticminstrel> And the text just shows as boxes.
20150806 00:19:17< mattsc> celticminstrel: yes, I use Macports too
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20150806 00:19:41< mattsc> [I’m only here for a few minutes again, but maybe we can take the next step]
20150806 00:20:36< mattsc> celticminstrel: so you are talking about building 1.13 with Xcode, right?
20150806 00:22:42< mattsc> celticminstrel: That CoreText warning is different from what I thought you were talking about.  Do you have the bandwidth/time to download 350MB file and test something?  That would help us a lot with determining what we need/can do for the OS X builds.
20150806 00:23:21< mattsc> If so, does the Wesnoth build at the following link run for you? 
20150806 00:23:29< mattsc> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nmd3t8q92hb4r7/Wesnoth-1.13.1%2Bdev.tgz?dl=0
20150806 00:24:44< celticminstrel> Yes, it's 1.13.
20150806 00:24:46< celticminstrel> Downloading.
20150806 00:25:00< celticminstrel> Also yes to XCode.
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20150806 00:25:33< mattsc> Thanks — I’ll be back … sometime in the next hour
20150806 00:29:05< aquileia> loonycyborg: You'll be pleased that NSIS 3 is considerably faster, and it correctly displays russian on my PC now
20150806 00:29:19< loonycyborg> cool
20150806 00:30:22< aquileia> I'll do one more bugfix (I need to use WriteIni instead of FileWrite to allow people to add Wesnoth to an existing start menu folder)
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20150806 00:38:47< celticminstrel> That build doesn't run - it's the same error I encountered when building it (which I fixed by substituting Pango and Cairo from MacPorts). dyld cannot load CoreText referenced by libpangocairo, because it expects it to be at /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreText.framework when in fact it's in /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/CoreText.framework
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20150806 00:39:48< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#508 (sortable_listbox - 6b43686 : gfgtdf): The build has errored.
20150806 00:39:48< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/74331361
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20150806 00:40:52< mattsc> celticminstrel: yeah, that’s the same error I get with 10.6.
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20150806 00:41:51< mattsc> I might still be able to help you fix up your own build when I am back
20150806 00:42:10< mattsc> just stopping by quicklky because I was curious  :)
20150806 00:42:14< celticminstrel> I think the problem I'm encountering is that CoreText is also referenced by pango-basic-coretext.so (in Resources/pango)
20150806 00:42:17 * celticminstrel nods.
20150806 00:43:10< celticminstrel> On the other hand, I tried substituting that with a version from MacPorts as well, and now the "failed to load pango-basic-coretext.so" error is not shown.
20150806 00:43:24< celticminstrel> Just the "failed to choose font" one.
20150806 00:43:49< celticminstrel> So maybe it's something else.
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20150806 01:30:49< mattsc> celticminstrel: hi, I’m back.  For a little (which is how the rest of the day os going to go for me).
20150806 01:31:16< celticminstrel> Okay.
20150806 01:31:30< mattsc> So you replaced the pango dylibs in the lib/ directory?
20150806 01:31:34< celticminstrel> Yes,
20150806 01:32:15< mattsc> the header files also?  (which is probably not necessary, just asking)
20150806 01:32:24< celticminstrel> Yes.
20150806 01:32:43< celticminstrel> I wasn't sure if it would be necessary, so I just went ahead and replaced them as well.
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20150806 01:33:15< mattsc> sounds good, I don’t know either, probably depends on the pango version
20150806 01:33:21< mattsc> what’s in /opt/local/lib/pango/ ?
20150806 01:33:26< mattsc> 1.8.0 or 1.6.0?
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20150806 01:33:48< celticminstrel> 1.8.0
20150806 01:34:14< mattsc> okay, and it looks like you already replaced pango-basic-coretext.so from in there in the project files?
20150806 01:34:37< celticminstrel> I can't remember if I replaced it in the project files or in the application package.
20150806 01:34:51< mattsc> Ah, okay.
20150806 01:34:57< celticminstrel> More likely the latter, since I'd expect git to recognize it as modified otherwise.
20150806 01:35:01< mattsc> Did you replace the other 3 .so files in there too?
20150806 01:35:05< celticminstrel> I didn't.
20150806 01:35:11< celticminstrel> Should I?
20150806 01:35:17< mattsc> I think so, yes.
20150806 01:35:32< mattsc> Why don’t your replace all 4 of them in the project files and rebuild and see what happens
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20150806 01:37:54< celticminstrel> Same result - text is just boxes and I get the "couldn't choose font" error in the console.
20150806 01:38:25< mattsc> okay …
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20150806 01:38:38< celticminstrel> I also get a bunch of GLib errors, not sure if that's relevant.
20150806 01:39:18< celticminstrel> GLib-CRITICAL **: gpointer g_datalist_id_dup_data(GData **, GQuark, GDuplicateFunc, gpointer): assertion 'key_id != 0' failed
20150806 01:39:26< mattsc> yeah, when I updated the libraries, I had to replace close to 30 of them
20150806 01:39:32< mattsc> glib was one of them
20150806 01:39:57< mattsc> I was hoping that you could cheat your way around that, but it does not look like it
20150806 01:40:03< celticminstrel> Should I replace the other dylibs with MacPorts versions too?
20150806 01:40:19< celticminstrel> I might have to install them first for that, though.
20150806 01:40:28< mattsc> celticminstrel: just to confirm, you copied those pango libraries over, rather than moving them, right?
20150806 01:40:56< celticminstrel> Yes, I copied them.
20150806 01:41:18< mattsc> the reason why I am asking is because they, internally, continue to refer to other libraries in /opt/local/lib, so if you had moved them that would be a problem.
20150806 01:41:32< celticminstrel> Ah.
20150806 01:41:38< mattsc> If you try to make builds for others, that would not work that way, but on your own computer it is okay
20150806 01:41:45< mattsc> I think
20150806 01:42:17< celticminstrel> Yeah, I don't think I can make release builds if those require PowerPC.
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20150806 01:43:14< mattsc> no, we’re not supporting PowerPC any more, but for example, do this:
20150806 01:43:32< mattsc> otool -L *.so    (in the modules directory)
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20150806 01:44:17< mattsc> it should give you the libraries those modules require; and likely they are linking at least some of them to /opt/local/lib
20150806 01:44:43< mattsc> so if you want to make a stand-alone “package”, you need to change all those links.
20150806 01:44:52< mattsc> Anyways, we’re getting sidetracked here though.
20150806 01:45:14< mattsc> So I see two options:
20150806 01:46:01< mattsc> 1. You replace all the libraries in the lib/ dir in the project file  (or at least one after the other until the errors go away)
20150806 01:46:25< mattsc> 2. You try the homebrew build, which ancestral and iceiceice set up some while ago to do all that for you automatically
20150806 01:47:34< mattsc> on 1., you probably don’t have to replace all of them for your local build, but I have no idea which ones have to be replaced
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20150806 02:11:12< celticminstrel> What's this about a homebrew build?
20150806 02:11:35< celticminstrel> I'm not sure I want to go that way since I'm using MacPorts for package management, though...
20150806 02:11:57< celticminstrel> I guess I'll try 1) and see if I can make any progress with it.
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20150806 02:14:22< mattsc> celticminstrel: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41140&p=579562#p577235
20150806 02:15:06< mattsc> I haven’t done this myself either, but ancestral can help you with it if you want to try and run into problems
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20150806 02:22:53< celticminstrel> I get the impression that that's more for people wanting to try out the latest HEAD.
20150806 02:23:08< celticminstrel> But I don't know much about Homebrew, so I could be wrong.
20150806 02:28:06< mattsc> Well, it’s for people who either want to or have to build their own version (because the want the latest version, or because we cannot provide a working DMG for their system, or …)
20150806 02:28:46< mattsc> My guess is that we could set up the same thing for Macports also, we’d just need somebody to take the time to figure it out and test it
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20150806 02:43:29< celticminstrel> I just checked, Wesnoth actually seems to be on MacPorts already.
20150806 02:44:59< celticminstrel> Just 1.12.4 though, no 1.13 or HEAD options.
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20150806 02:49:47< celticminstrel> Using MacPorts copies of GLib cures the GLib errors.
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20150806 02:53:25< mattsc> does that mean it works now, or just that those errors are gone/
20150806 02:53:27< mattsc> ?
20150806 02:54:17< celticminstrel> The Pango "couldn't choose font" error is still there.
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20150806 02:56:18< celticminstrel> I'm going to see if replacing everything with MacPorts copies helps.
20150806 02:56:23< celticminstrel> ...except Boost.
20150806 02:56:37< mattsc> celticminstrel: let’s try something else first
20150806 02:57:07< mattsc> find fontconfig.h in your Macports builds and replace the one in Headers/fontconfig/
20150806 02:57:46< mattsc> if that does not fix it, do the same for glibconf.h (in /opt/local/lib/glib-2.0/include/)
20150806 02:59:14< celticminstrel> Considering it's a runtime error, that seems unlikely to help... but I'll try it.
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20150806 03:00:47< mattsc> with recompiling, of course; but I assume that’s obvious :)
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20150806 03:02:38< mattsc> I’m going through my notes of what I did when I replaced all the libraries and pulling out what I think might be relevant
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20150806 03:04:20< mattsc> celticminstrel: that’s pretty much all I have …
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20150806 03:06:35< celticminstrel> The number of source files is insane.
20150806 03:07:27< celticminstrel> I'm waiting for it to recompile right now.
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20150806 03:12:57< celticminstrel> Is this XCode project file generated by CMake?
20150806 03:13:13< mattsc> I have no idea
20150806 03:13:23< mattsc> I took the existing file and modified it as needed
20150806 03:13:37< mattsc> modified it using Xcode itself
20150806 03:13:54< celticminstrel> So, it's okay to commit changes to the XCode project; they won't be wiped out later by regenerating it.
20150806 03:14:00< celticminstrel> ^?
20150806 03:14:44< celticminstrel> It's currently almost impossible to find a given source file - they're not alphabetical or categorized or anything as far as I can see.
20150806 03:15:13< celticminstrel> (I guess you could start typing the name. That might work.)
20150806 03:16:44< mattsc> it is correct that it will not be regenerated
20150806 03:17:20< celticminstrel> Alright, it works now.
20150806 03:17:24< celticminstrel> Yay!
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20150806 03:34:14< mattsc> celticminstrel: woot!  So do you know which step it was that did the final fix?
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20150806 03:36:26< celticminstrel> I'm guessing it was probably the headers, but I did both at the same time so I can't say which. I also replaced a few more libraries with MacPorts copies.
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20150806 03:38:05< mattsc> okay, thanks.  Glad it worked out.  :)  It’s probably more complicated than doing the homebrew install for most people though.
20150806 03:38:24< celticminstrel> It probably wasn't the libraries (they were bz, expat, and ffi).
20150806 03:38:29 * celticminstrel nods.
20150806 03:38:31< mattsc> trying to figure out what to do about upcoming releases …
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20150806 03:39:04< mattsc> I hope that my latest libraries will work from 10.8 on  (I know they do work on 10.9 and 10.10)
20150806 03:39:07< celticminstrel> I think it'd be good to have some sort of script that builds the Headers/ and lib/ directories for you, rather than having you download it. That could get really complicated though.
20150806 03:39:39< mattsc> So we can provide DMGs for those, and homebrew build instructions for 10.6 and 10.7
20150806 03:40:00< celticminstrel> Especially since my copy of Boost doesn't have w on the end of some of the libraries (like random and filesystem).
20150806 03:40:03< mattsc> Aren’t the homebrew (or Macport) builds exactly what you suggest?
20150806 03:40:27< celticminstrel> I mean for people who've cloned the repo with the intent of poking at the source code.
20150806 03:40:34< mattsc> right, the ‘w’ was added manually (not by me, was already done that way in the previous setup)
20150806 03:40:50< celticminstrel> Ah? Do you know why?
20150806 03:40:55< mattsc> Hmm, I see.
20150806 03:41:08< mattsc> Umm, I assume it stands for Wesnoth
20150806 03:41:19< mattsc> Not sure why.  crimson_penguin?
20150806 03:41:26< mattsc> Still on your toes?  ;)
20150806 03:41:28< celticminstrel> Some of them don't have it though.
20150806 03:41:44< celticminstrel> I thought maybe it stood for "wide", though that doesn't make sence in random.
20150806 03:41:47< celticminstrel> ^sense
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20150806 03:42:15< celticminstrel> Ah, I'm wrong, they do all have it.
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20150806 03:43:49< mattsc> well, that’s really easy to change anyway, it was just a simple rename (of both the filenames and the references inside the files)
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20150806 03:47:00< mattsc> celticminstrel: I do have access to an old 10.6 computer at the moment.  I could try to set up such a script for that.  Would you be willing to test it on 10.7 if I get that figured out?
20150806 03:48:07< mattsc> Also, did you have to change anything in the project settings to get this done, or did you “just” replace files?
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20150806 03:50:30< celticminstrel> I would be willing. The only thing I changed in the XCode project is unsetting "Treat warnings as errors", because there's one warning in ... something about the implementation of chat commands.
20150806 03:50:49< celticminstrel> I have no idea how to fix the warning.
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20150806 03:53:11< mattsc> great, thanks - then we just need somebody who can test on 10.8  :)
20150806 03:53:39< mattsc> Could you copy and paste the exact message about those chat warnings?
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20150806 03:59:30< celticminstrel> http://pastebin.com/Le0SPDph
20150806 04:00:25< mattsc> Hmm, okay, I have seen those before, I can probably fix that.
20150806 04:00:42< mattsc> Is that with current master?  (I haven’t compiled in a few days)
20150806 04:01:00< celticminstrel> I cloned a few hours ago, yes.
20150806 04:01:40< celticminstrel> It actually looks like the warning might be wrong.
20150806 04:02:37< mattsc> building …
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20150806 04:03:40< celticminstrel> Unless I'm confused by the typedefs.
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20150806 04:10:19< mattsc> celticminstrel: hmm, I just built and I do not get that warning
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20150806 04:10:28< mattsc> But anyways, thanks, this was very interesting for me.
20150806 04:10:34< celticminstrel> That seems to support my theory that the warning should not be issued.
20150806 04:10:49< mattsc> I’ll get back to you concerning those scripts sometime.  Don’t hold your breath though.
20150806 04:11:24< celticminstrel> Does SDL2 still not support colour cursors? Both Mac and Windows can handle them natively by now...
20150806 04:11:42< celticminstrel> Well, Mac definitely can. I'm fairly sure Windows can too.
20150806 04:11:55< celticminstrel> But Windows is weird.
20150806 04:12:53< mattsc> We turned them off for Macs because they were impossibly slow.
20150806 04:13:03< shadowm> Windows has been able to handle color cursors since NT 3.1.
20150806 04:13:30< shadowm> Not necessarily 24 bpp color cursors, but color cursors nevertheless.
20150806 04:13:35< celticminstrel> But Wesnoth doesn't actually use colour cursors, it just draws the "cursor" into the window, right?
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20150806 04:13:53< shadowm> Yes, because SDL 1.2 does not support color cursors.
20150806 04:13:59< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20150806 04:14:13< celticminstrel> Does SDL2 support them?
20150806 04:14:29< shadowm> I think it does but I'd have to check their documentation to make sure.
20150806 04:15:18< shadowm> There is a SDL_CreateColorCursor function.
20150806 04:15:33< celticminstrel> So the move to SDL2 should automagically fix the Mac colour cursors problem.
20150806 04:15:34< shadowm> That's enough evidence for me.
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20150806 04:16:16< shadowm> Not 100% automagically because we'd have to update the cursors setup code in Wesnoth to use SDL's color cursor support, but yes, pretty much.
20150806 04:16:29< shadowm> (That should be a trivial task, of course.)
20150806 04:16:31< celticminstrel> Okay, but pretty close.
20150806 04:16:33 * celticminstrel nods.
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20150806 04:17:00< celticminstrel> Then you wouldn't need that draw() and undraw() stuff, I guess.
20150806 04:17:22< mattsc> ancestral: hi — some interesting stuff about building on 10.7 in the logs over the last couple hours
20150806 04:17:53< ancestral> I’ll go have a read
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20150806 04:21:55< ancestral> wedge009: How’s your Internet connection?
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20150806 04:23:40< celticminstrel> I still can't find the "Delay fog updates" option though.
20150806 04:24:03< celticminstrel> I keep hearing about it, but I've never seen it.
20150806 04:24:42< shadowm> Delay Shroud Updates.
20150806 04:25:37< celticminstrel> Whatever, it's nowhere to be found in preferences, nor in the game menus.
20150806 04:25:58< shadowm> You need to be in a game where shroud is enabled, and right click on the map.
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20150806 04:27:19< celticminstrel> Oh! That's a strange place for it though.
20150806 04:27:36< celticminstrel> I see it's now in the Actions menu too.
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20150806 05:34:18< aquileia> Hmm... seems that the only manual pages actually using the localized images are French and Galician... Portuguese has up-to-date images, but nobody bothered updating l10n-track so they aren't displayed
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20150806 05:36:57< crimson_penguin> mattsc: still on my toes, and I don't know what that is
20150806 05:40:34< celticminstrel> I'm assuming he was asking why the Boost libraries in the XCode project have a w at the end of their name.
20150806 05:41:12< celticminstrel> Does that mean you don't know, crimson_penguin?
20150806 05:43:36< crimson_penguin> Yeah
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20150806 05:48:15< aquileia> shadowm: Any idea why doc/manual/manual.it.html references the wrong images although you ran several pot updates on it? It tries to display the English 1.9.4 images (although there are Italian 1.9.4 ones) while it should use the English 1.11.9 images
20150806 05:48:50< aquileia> In consequence, none of these images are displayed at all
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20150806 05:53:01< shadowm> aquileia: The wrong images for what?
20150806 05:53:48< aquileia> game-screen-1.11.9 main-menu-1.11.9 multiplayer-1.11.9 and recruit-1.11.9
20150806 05:53:56< shadowm> What does the .po file say?
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20150806 05:54:32< shadowm> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/po/wesnoth-manual/it.po#L859
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20150806 05:54:54< shadowm> That's why. The pot-update toolchain is only working as intended.
20150806 05:55:01< aquileia> ok
20150806 05:55:08< aquileia> +
20150806 05:55:35< shadowm> Someone (either you, Ivanovic, or Elvish_Hunter maybe?) should notify the Italian translation maintainer.
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20150806 05:58:01< aquileia> Or... I could just fix it, while I'm deleting 5 MB of unused images from ranging back to Wesnoth 1.5-1.9
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20150806 06:34:07< aquileia> Email sent, and I'll fix the issue
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20150806 06:40:31< roberpot> hi
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20150806 09:00:23< wedge009> ancestral: I think it's the indoors cable. It does that from time to time. :/
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20150806 11:33:55< MackanGyver> I am fairly experienced in both c++ and python, I was just wondering how much time joining the project would require since I am a father of two kids which refuse to go to bed early.
20150806 11:34:29< MackanGyver> toddlers
20150806 11:45:21< zookeeper> well, if you'd want to actually accomplish something as well, then i'd imagine it would take a fair bit of time
20150806 11:47:06< zookeeper> i mean, i'm sure there's some smaller things here and there one can do without much time commitment, but most things are likely ones which would take quite a bit of time
20150806 11:48:25< MackanGyver> I was afraid of that, since it has been going on for quite a while... I will start playing around with the code base a bit when I have time. First thing is to start using git, I have been looking for a reason to test out git.. Thank you for your answer, currently reading through some of the info in the links above.
20150806 11:48:43< MackanGyver> I have been playing battle for wesnoth on and off again for a couple of years... 
20150806 11:49:05< ypnos>  is there a list of small tasks that need to be looked into as starter projects, like to do a small contribution?
20150806 11:55:33< MackanGyver> I'll dig around in the code base and look at some open bugs or lists to see if I think I can contribute. I'll get back to you in the future if I think I can help in any way. Currently not at home. Thank you for your answers.
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20150806 11:59:44< zookeeper> ypnos, well, there's the EasyCoding wiki page
20150806 12:01:51< MackanGyver> yes looking at it.
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20150806 12:17:00< aquileia> I think someone else will have to run lbundle-check.py when Sgt. Groovy's logo translations are committed... it wants to do quite a few ID changes in l10n-track without the images having changed, so either my current or my previous run was erroneous. Doesn't help that my lbundle is outdated
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20150806 12:39:48< aquileia> Ah, the failed zopflipng compression accounts for most of these revision ID changes...
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20150806 13:06:31< irker648> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:master 4e4fdd0504b9 / / (74 files in 17 dirs): manual: Clean up localized files http://git.io/vO9Ny
20150806 13:07:29< irker648> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:1.12 652cdfc90c4d / / (71 files in 14 dirs): manual: Clean up localized files http://git.io/vO9AC
20150806 13:07:38< vultraz> dat cleanup
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20150806 13:17:23< wedge009> So I think I finally got everything working properly with a VC2015 set-up. Including the Map Editor which wasn't working with VC2008 compilation.
20150806 13:17:44< wedge009> aquileia: Did you say you were interested in VC2015 compilation?
20150806 13:18:38< wedge009> Ah, there we go: the Map Editor crash still happens in debug mode. But it doesn't seem to mind in release mode. Same was what you said before, I think.
20150806 13:19:13< aquileia> wedge009: I'd be interested in the boost libraries to add them to a VC14 branch for external, so that others don't have to recompile them
20150806 13:19:46< vultraz> I'm also interested in the updated pango libs since I'm stilling running 1.28
20150806 13:20:06< aquileia> As would be I
20150806 13:20:41< wedge009> Hmm, I only have what's in ...\boost_1_58_0\stage\lib - is that what you're referring to?
20150806 13:21:05< aquileia> yes
20150806 13:21:23< aquileia> It should be 24 files
20150806 13:21:51< wedge009> Okay, I'll gather them up.
20150806 13:22:01< aquileia> Great, thanks!
20150806 13:22:31< aquileia> Do you want commit acces to external, or stash them e.g. on dropbox?
20150806 13:22:39< wedge009> I thought you'd set-up VC14/2015 as well, though. It was just a matter of running the bootstrap/b2 build again.
20150806 13:23:11< aquileia> Unfortunately I'd need VC14 to generate the dependencies for it
20150806 13:23:59< wedge009> Oh, I thought you'd had it installed already. I only tried it because a colleague prompted me to. I was pleasantly surprised to find this one doesn't need registration.
20150806 13:25:05< wedge009> I can try committing to your external repository. I'm still a bit of a novice with git. Do I commit then push or do I make a pull request?
20150806 13:26:31< aquileia> I'll create a new VC14 branch so that you can create a PR for it (without push access, you can only modify your fork and then do a PR)
20150806 13:29:37< wedge009> Okay.
20150806 13:32:00< wedge009> vultraz: You can try http://wedge009.net/miscellaneous/libpango-1.37.2-vc14-wedge009.7z I don't think there are any external dependencies, at least not more than what's already provided with the official GTK 3.6.4 Win32 binaries. I found only pango, pangocairo and pangowin32 were needed, no pangoft2. I found no differences between these, my 1.37.2/VC9 build and the 1.30.1 provided with the offician Win32 binaries.
20150806 13:32:49< wedge009> Uh, I suppose you might need the VC14 run-times as well.
20150806 13:32:53< aquileia> wedge009: Branch created, you hould be able to do a PR now (pushing to your fork and using the popup in the web interface to create the PR is the easiest way)
20150806 13:32:54< wedge009> Dunno.
20150806 13:34:36< vultraz> wedge009: that's just the dlls. what about the libs? plus those want a VC14-related dll anyway
20150806 13:35:57< wedge009> Whoops, sorry. Give me a moment. I just realised these boost libraries are 730 MiB. 68 files.
20150806 13:36:15< aquileia> We only need a few of them:
20150806 13:36:22< wedge009> vultraz: Do you have a VC preference?
20150806 13:36:33< wedge009> aquileia: Oh okay.
20150806 13:37:00< vultraz> I'm not using VC actually. But I'm planning to installing it, so....
20150806 13:37:36< wedge009> Okay. Well, as I said, there's no registration or account needed for VC2015 Community, which was a pleasant surprise.
20150806 13:39:38< wedge009> aquileia: Do I drop them in lib/ ?
20150806 13:39:50< wedge009> Sorry, still new to a lot of this.
20150806 13:40:02< aquileia> libboost_bzip2-vc120-mt-1_58.lib libboost_bzip2-vc120-mt-gd-1_58.lib libboost_chrono-vc120-mt-1_58.lib libboost_chrono-vc120-mt-gd-1_58.lib libboost_date_time-vc120-mt-1_58.lib libboost_date_time-vc120-mt-gd-1_58.lib libboost_filesystem-vc120-mt-1_58.lib libboost_filesystem-vc120-mt-gd-1_58.lib libboost_iostreams-vc120-mt-1_58.lib libboost_iostreams-vc120-mt-gd-1_58.lib libboost_locale-vc120-mt-1_58.lib libboost_locale-vc120-
20150806 13:40:24< aquileia> IRC cut the list...
20150806 13:40:59< aquileia> wedge009: http://pastebin.com/0GP32m4K and yes, just drop them in lib
20150806 13:41:16< vultraz> do we need the debug versions?
20150806 13:41:37< aquileia> ... with vc140 instead of vc120
20150806 13:42:36< aquileia> vultraz: how would we resolve boost symbols without them?
20150806 13:43:34 * vultraz doesn't know, just that he didn't add them (the debug versions) to the CB projectfile linker
20150806 13:44:18< aquileia> vultraz: At least in MSVC they'll be chosen automatically in debug builds
20150806 13:44:27< vultraz> huh
20150806 13:44:33< aquileia> No idea about CB, though
20150806 13:45:44< wedge009> I suppose I need a github account?
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20150806 13:45:51< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#509 (sortable_listbox - dc6b243 : gfgtdf): The build failed.
20150806 13:45:51< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/74402788
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20150806 13:45:55< aquileia> Wouldn't hurt ;)
20150806 13:47:23< vultraz> :P
20150806 13:48:18< aquileia> BTW, gfgtdf, do you still use boost 1.51? If you updated, it'd be nice if you could commit the new version to the VC10 branch of aquileia/external/ (you already have commit access)
20150806 13:51:41< mattsc> vultraz: did you see my comments on your AI bug report a couple days ago?
20150806 13:52:09< mattsc> in summary: it’s been around for a long time (at least since 1.10, didn’t test before then) and I think it could be made into an EasyCoding task
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20150806 13:52:20< gfgtdf> aquileia: y still using 1.51 but i can updater if wesnoths depencency raise for some reason
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20150806 13:52:40< vultraz> mattsc: yes I saw the gist of it
20150806 13:52:41< aquileia> Ok
20150806 13:53:01< wedge009> aquileia: I must be doing something wrong - keep getting permission denied error.
20150806 13:53:07< gfgtdf> s/updater/update
20150806 13:53:33< mattsc> vultraz: so should we put it onto the EC page and see if somebody picks it up?
20150806 13:54:16< aquileia> wedge009: Two options - a) you give me your GitHub name and I'll give you the permissions  b) you push to your fork of the repo
20150806 13:54:52< wedge009> GitHub name is Wedge009, with capital.
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20150806 13:56:09< wedge009> vultraz: Do you want to try http://wedge009.net/miscellaneous/libpango-1.37.2-vc14-wedge009.7z again? Put everything in this time.
20150806 13:56:15< gfgtdf> aquileia: you know how to start the wesnoth  boost tests on windows ?
20150806 13:56:27< aquileia> wedge009: Added you. Please make sure that you're on the VC14 branch before you push
20150806 13:56:55< wedge009> Yes, I explicitly selected the VC14 branch and it says both local and remote branch is set to VC14.
20150806 13:56:58< vultraz> wedge009: does it still rely on the VC dll?
20150806 13:57:45< aquileia> gfgtdf: No, never got them to run. anonymissimus most have got them to run once I guess (else there wouldn't be a Test_Release configuration) but I never managed
20150806 13:58:23< gfgtdf> aquileia: maybe it spoiible to alolow running with the normal executale?
20150806 13:59:26< wedge009> vultraz: I suppose it does. I used the VC12 project and updated the file names to what GTK expects. Didn't change any other settings that I recall.
20150806 13:59:43< wedge009> VC12 project from source files, I mean.
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20150806 13:59:53< aquileia> gfgtdf: Test_Release defines MSVC_DO_UNIT_TESTS, which changes a few lines in util.cpp, and compiles with Subsystem=Console
20150806 14:00:27< aquileia> That (and the executable name test.exe) are the only changes
20150806 14:01:47< aquileia> gfgtdf: If you get the boost unit test running, that'd be great and I could add them to the post build hook in the project file
20150806 14:03:55< wedge009> aquileia: Push complete.
20150806 14:04:19< aquileia> Thanks!
20150806 14:04:57< wedge009> No worries.
20150806 14:09:15< wedge009> I've put up http://wedge009.net/miscellaneous/libpango-1.37.2-vc9-wedge009.7z as well, in case that's useful for anyone. Take it or leave it, as you will. (:
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20150806 14:22:26< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#510 (sortable_listbox - 529bd9c : gfgtdf): The build failed.
20150806 14:22:26< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/74408450
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20150806 14:27:02< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#6972 (master - 4e4fdd0 : aquileia): The build has errored.
20150806 14:27:02< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/74403141
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20150806 14:37:10< pydsigner> zookeeper: I'm told you're the EI timeline expert?
20150806 14:39:13< pydsigner> Is there any official position on whether or not Soradoc fell during Ravanal's sweep from the east?
20150806 14:39:42< zookeeper> pydsigner, well i think we can safely assume so
20150806 14:40:01< zookeeper> why?
20150806 14:40:05< pydsigner> Ok, that's what thought
20150806 14:40:25< pydsigner> I'm working on aelius' old The North Wind campaign
20150806 14:40:55< pydsigner> Which claims that Deoran's supply line led to Soradoc
20150806 14:41:45< zookeeper> right
20150806 14:42:12< zookeeper> err, so, what does that have to do with EI?
20150806 14:42:23< pydsigner> It takes place at the same time
20150806 14:43:39< pydsigner> Probably starting the the fall of 626 or somewhere thereabouts.
20150806 14:43:55< zookeeper> okay. i guess it's got to be >5 years since i've last seen it, but i recalled it was a reasonably direct continuation of TSG... maybe not
20150806 14:44:29< pydsigner> Well, TSG makes it feel that way
20150806 14:45:01< pydsigner> Which makes me think that the timeline has shifted and left TSG behind....
20150806 14:45:38< pydsigner> I.e. the Wiki states that TSG takes place in 607-608
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20150806 14:46:31< pydsigner> But ends with the words, "Deoran spent his days visiting the wounded and directing the men as they rebuilt the shattered walls and ramparts of the city. Finally, as the snow melted and the roads bore their burdens again, a messenger came from King Haldric."
20150806 14:46:44< pydsigner> "Sir Deoran, Knight of Wesnoth, was summoned to Weldyn for a council with King Haldric himself. Storm clouds were brewing throughout the realm, and every commander would be needed to weather the onslaught..."
20150806 14:47:10< zookeeper> yes, i think that part of the ending was originally supposed to reference EI, but the timelines have shifted so that it actually takes place earlier
20150806 14:47:21< pydsigner> Right
20150806 14:47:23< zookeeper> ...which is why we did a little tweak to that line just recently
20150806 14:47:40 * pydsigner looks
20150806 14:48:02< zookeeper> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5495339a5527dc48015534dab8d54fddafb7018b
20150806 14:48:36< zookeeper> the tweak was just removing the word "onslaught", so it becomes vague enough that it could refer to any sort of crisis
20150806 14:49:49< pydsigner> This also solves the issue where TNW actually begins in the fall
20150806 14:50:02< pydsigner> After Deoran is summoned........ in the Spring ><
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20150806 15:01:14< gfgtdf> can someone who can run boost test locally help me by giving me a stacktrace for the test error in my pr ?
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20150806 15:45:49< gfgtdf> ok i think i foudn a way to reproduce
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20150806 16:23:58< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/74427690
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20150806 16:26:52< pydsigner> zookeeper: An issue with EI is that it ignores Dwarven Doors
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20150806 16:58:44< zookeeper> pydsigner, more precisely, it ignores everything in the northlands :p well, aside from "orcs live there"
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20150806 17:01:06< aquileia> vultraz: As you're on Win10 - is the new start menu designed in a way that the Wesnoth Windows installer should create the basic 3 shortcuts (Wesnoth, Wesnoth with console, Manual)  or all 7 shortcuts (+ Uninstall, changelog, player's changelog, map editor) ?
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20150806 17:05:02< aquileia> I'd like ti know whether to hide the 4 additionals either for Win 8/8.1 alone or for anything above 7
20150806 17:05:29< aquileia> *to
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20150806 17:07:35< vultraz> Why do you hide them on 8? On 8 it just went into a folder under All Apps
20150806 17:08:16< vultraz> Win 10 also has an all apps section
20150806 17:09:09< aquileia> xo it's basically no better? All folders are expanded?
20150806 17:11:43< vultraz> Not expanded by default.
20150806 17:12:13< aquileia> We're hiding them because they clutter your app list for no apparent reason. If that's not the case for Win10, we could re-add them
20150806 17:12:35< aquileia> If we want to add them, that is
20150806 17:12:40< vultraz> Well, maybe I'm confused, but this is how it looks: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/win10%20start%20menu.png
20150806 17:12:53< vultraz> folders are unexpanded unless you click them
20150806 17:13:07< aquileia> ok, thanks for the clarification
20150806 17:13:30< vultraz> So it shouldn't matter how much stuff you stick it in it
20150806 17:16:11< aquileia> Well, the uninstaller is accessible via right click on the wessnoth shortcut, the map editor is right on the titlescreen, and no player (UMC creators excluded, who open the wesnoth dir anyhow) ever reads changelogs
20150806 17:23:55< vultraz> Do we still need the editor shortcut?
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20150806 17:26:21< aquileia> No, we don't need it, if we keep it it's for convenience
20150806 17:27:03< aquileia> it has its own icon and translations though, which would then be obsolete
20150806 17:31:05< aquileia> The icon is low-quality (big black border, only one size) and the translations haven't reached master yet (they're only part of my PR) so it's no big loss
20150806 17:31:52< aquileia> But  it's up to shadowm and loonycyborg to decide
20150806 17:32:36< vultraz> Do you use the 64 size or the 128 size? Because we do actually have a 128 size icon for the editor
20150806 17:32:40< vultraz> I stashed it in attic
20150806 17:34:36< aquileia> Even the 64 version is considerably better than what we use...
20150806 17:36:09< aquileia> 128 isn't useful for Windows though, as everything is sized up from 64 with the exception of 256 (which receives special treatment)
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20150806 17:37:45< vultraz> Ah, I see
20150806 17:40:00< vultraz> Well there's no 265 version of it. I honestly have no version where the editor icon even came from.
20150806 17:40:14< vultraz> Though we don't really use it for anything much, so it doesn't exactly matter
20150806 17:40:29< aquileia> I agree, we don't need 256
20150806 17:42:35< vultraz> Anyway, I would support dropping the editor shortcut
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20150806 17:53:07< irker018> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd 851fb628b486 / src/server/ (9 files): Started porting support for hosting actual games http://git.io/vO7Gw
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20150806 18:44:25< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/74450030
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20150806 18:55:49< celticminstrel> Editor doesn't allow setting label colour...
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20150806 19:39:50 * celticminstrel is working on this by the way. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/NotSoEasyCoding#Map_label_.22groups.22_which_can_be_selectively_turned_on_and_off_by_the_user
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20150806 21:42:14< doofus-01> zookeeper (and anyone else who might care)- For that first scenario of SoF, maybe the best thing to do is get rid of the AI loyalist side, and give the player some
20150806 21:42:51< doofus-01> temporary cavalry.  That might be the best way to keep the AI from fighting itself.
20150806 21:43:41< doofus-01> Keep side 2, but make it mostly irrelevant, so the dialogues aren't changed much.
20150806 21:44:59< zookeeper> well, one possibility would be to just give control of side 2 to the player... but that seems a bit iffy from a story POV
20150806 21:46:39< doofus-01> If the king tells two cavalrymen, for example, to escort the wagons, then come back, I think that could be OK story-wise for not letting the player keep them.
20150806 21:46:44< zookeeper> is there a problem with the AI sides fighting each other? too much variability in outcome or what?
20150806 21:47:44< doofus-01> There's that, but it's also boring.
20150806 21:47:44< afre> I find the ally gets in the way sometimes, which can raise the difficulty.
20150806 21:48:35< doofus-01> yeah, that happens too.
20150806 21:51:04< zookeeper> mattsc, do we have any existing functionality for making an AI side try to ZoC enemies from reaching specific friendly units?
20150806 21:51:28< zookeeper> not just the dumb protect thing where they attack enemies within X distance of those units, but actually somewhat-intelligently screen them with ZoC
20150806 21:51:35< zookeeper> (i'm guessing not, but just making sure...)
20150806 21:52:19< mattsc> zookeeper: no, not really.  I have bits and pieces of that in different of my custom AIs, but I don’t think it exists in a general way.
20150806 21:52:19< afre> Even a rough implementation would make the scenario more believable.
20150806 21:53:08< mattsc> afre: even just a rough implementation is not all that easy to write, at least no in a general way
20150806 21:53:51< afre> I didn't mean it that way. Just food for thought. ;)
20150806 21:54:24< mattsc> afre: no worries; in case that came across the wrong way, I was not offended.
20150806 21:55:56< mattsc> thinking about it, the Herding MAI has some code like that.  But it’s for individual enemies, not for a whole army.
20150806 21:57:57< mattsc> doofus-01: could you send me a replay of the current version of your scenario setup for a case when you don’t like what the AI is doing?
20150806 21:58:22< mattsc> Together with a short description of what you would like to see, both ideally and what would count as good enough.
20150806 21:59:17< doofus-01> sure, can I send it via forum PM?
20150806 21:59:33< mattsc> yes
20150806 22:00:02< aquileia> mattsc: Don't you have a 'protect the cart' microAI which might be useful here?
20150806 22:00:27< aquileia> Just an idea
20150806 22:00:59< mattsc> aquileia: we have a messenger escort Ai, yes, but I am not sure that that would work here.
20150806 22:01:12< pydsigner> That's kinda inverse
20150806 22:01:18< mattsc> Also, in its current version it only works when the messenger (cart) is on the AI side
20150806 22:01:33< zookeeper> depending on the AI for anything is of course always prone to failure, but i don't really recall that scenario being too problematic... although that's probably because it used to be much easier
20150806 22:08:21< afre> To me, it isn't a matter of difficulty. AI can just be a little weird sometimes in relation to the story: "Are you helping me or not?" But then again, dumb things happen irl too - haha.
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20150806 22:11:41< afre> mattsc: Are replays the best way to document AI issues?
20150806 22:12:09< mattsc> afre: often they are, yes
20150806 22:14:21< afre> I don't know what goes into AI but is there a way to display what it's doing between turns?
20150806 22:16:24< mattsc> you mean the evaluations its doing?
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20150806 22:17:50< mattsc> you can start from the commandline with —log-debug=ai/* , that gives you all kinds of output
20150806 22:18:29< doofus-01>  mattsc - PM sent.  I was a little light on details of what I want, but basically, I'd just be looking for the elf side to go after the wagons, rather than killing off the loyalists first.
20150806 22:19:13< mattsc> doofus-01: thanks; I got the file, let me have a look
20150806 22:26:55< mattsc> doofus-01: well, the AI _is_ stupid, but it is doing exactly what it is supposed to do
20150806 22:27:35< mattsc> So your main concern is for the elves side to target the player’s side preferentially, rather than the (blue) humans?
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20150806 22:30:07< doofus-01> mattsc - that would be the 'good enough' option.  Ideal would be the wagons as target.
20150806 22:30:53< mattsc> doofus-01: well, wagons as target is actually easier  :)
20150806 22:31:09< mattsc> well, no, not easier, but equally as easy
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20150806 22:31:39< mattsc> So, I think this is relatively easily doable, but let me ask a few questions, first.
20150806 22:31:56< doofus-01> OK
20150806 22:33:03< mattsc> So, the important things to understand is that the Wesnoth AI deals with things that are within reach on the current turn (for a given unit) differently than for things that are more than one turn away.
20150806 22:33:38< mattsc> For simplicity, let’s just consider the attack and move-to-targets candidate actions  (and ignore things like villages etc.)
20150806 22:34:07< mattsc> If an enemy can be attacked, that is done first.  For all AI units  (unless an attack is deemed not worth it).
20150806 22:34:18< mattsc> Then, we are moving toward targets that are out of range.
20150806 22:34:38< mattsc> We have some influence over the MtT CA via [goal] tags.
20150806 22:35:14< mattsc> We have very little control about selectively choosing attacks.  Pretty much the only thing you can do is tell the AI not to attack certain units at all  (which is not what you want here).
20150806 22:35:20< mattsc> Does that make sense so far?
20150806 22:35:41< doofus-01> So there yep, i'm with you so far.
20150806 22:35:59< mattsc> Okay, so my suggestion is this:
20150806 22:36:43< mattsc> Set up a [goal] tag that moves the elves preferentially toward the caravans (or all player units, if that is preferrable)
20150806 22:37:02< pydsigner> What about setting a target at the end of each player turn to a position on the path in front of the caravans?
20150806 22:37:18< mattsc> It could also be: preferentially toward caravans, other player units with second priority, and the rest (loyalists and villages) last
20150806 22:38:13< mattsc> pydsigner: that’s also possible, but gets more complicated esp. if the caravans spread out.
20150806 22:38:28< doofus-01> mattsc - ok, that i can do.
20150806 22:38:32< mattsc> That’s a detail though that I am sure doofus-01 can work out.
20150806 22:39:04< mattsc> doofus-01: the problem with that is that, when units come into attack range, the AI will still choose whatever it thinks is the best target.
20150806 22:39:16< doofus-01> right
20150806 22:39:28< pydsigner> Which is almost never going to be the caravans.
20150806 22:39:28< mattsc> And since the blue and red sides are pretty mixed together, that often means humans
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20150806 22:40:11< mattsc> doofus-01: simplest solution is to tell the AI not to attack the ally at all, but that would not be good either.
20150806 22:40:24< mattsc> So … there’s a “simple attack” Micro AI now.
20150806 22:40:45< pydsigner> Wait... what if the caravans were made high-level units?
20150806 22:40:56< pydsigner> So that they'd be worth attacking for the AI?
20150806 22:41:16< pydsigner> How would that effect the calculations?
20150806 22:41:16< mattsc> You’re still gambling in that case.
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20150806 22:42:04< mattsc> doofus-01: from a story point of view, it makes sense that the the elves attack the caravans whenever they get a shot in, right?
20150806 22:42:22< doofus-01> right.
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20150806 22:43:02< mattsc> okay, so here is what you want:  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs#Simple_Attack_Micro_AI_.28ai_type.3Dsimple_attack.29
20150806 22:43:11< mattsc> The first example does exactly that
20150806 22:44:17< mattsc> After that, you could leave the rest of the attacks to the default AI, or you can set up a second [micro_ao] tag that attacks player’s units next.
20150806 22:44:28< mattsc> player’s units other than caravans
20150806 22:45:27< doofus-01> yeah, that looks like it should work.  I'll give it a shot.  Thanks, mattsc.
20150806 22:45:28< mattsc> pydsigner: the AI does not simply attack the most valuable units.  You’re still gambling with the situation on the map in that case, is what I meant.  Sometimes you’ll get the behavior you want, sometimes you won’t.
20150806 22:45:36< mattsc> unless that is what you want.  ;)
20150806 22:46:05< mattsc> doofus-01: great.  Let me know how this works out and if I can help with something.
20150806 22:46:29< mattsc> I can also modify the MAI code itself if you want slightly different behavior.
20150806 22:47:46< mattsc> doofus-01: oh, looking at the example, you want that but with [filter_second]  :P
20150806 22:48:53< doofus-01> cool, thanks.  i'll let you know how it shakes out.  thanks again.
20150806 22:51:04< mattsc> no worries, this gives me some distraction from the frustration that goes by the name of Fred  ;)
20150806 22:53:23< doofus-01> Good ol' Fred.
20150806 22:54:50< mattsc> yeah, I’m currently trying to teach him battle tactics, but he’s proving to be rather dense
20150806 22:54:58< mattsc> as a good orc should be, I guess
20150806 22:55:48< mattsc> doofus-01: one more comment on choosing values for the [goal] tag(s).  The only two default goals are villages (value=1) and enemy leaders (value=3)
20150806 22:56:26< mattsc> So you want to choose values larger than that.
20150806 22:56:47< mattsc> By how much depends on which fraction of the AI units you want to go for the caravans
20150806 22:57:56< pydsigner> mattsc: Right, I was just trying to think of things that would help the situation
20150806 22:58:57< mattsc> pydsigner: sounds good; and that would probably make it somewhat better
20150806 22:59:16< pydsigner> A nasty hack though
20150806 22:59:39< mattsc> whatever works is fair game  :)
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20150806 23:08:31< doofus-01> mattsc - initial results indicate this MAI will be perfect.
20150806 23:09:01< mattsc> doofus-01: yay!
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20150806 23:30:55< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/74494584
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 07 00:00:08 2015