--- Log opened Tue Aug 04 00:00:12 2015
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20150804 16:43:23< irker299> Vultraz: Charles Dang Shadows_of_Deception:master 9b12eac2e72d / lua/gui/item_pickup.lua: item_pickup: added a generic fallback cannot_use_message value http://git.io/vOa8K
20150804 16:43:27< irker299> Vultraz: Charles Dang Shadows_of_Deception:master e4c18761acca / macros/items.cfg: Restore usage of usable_if (instead of usable_by) in STANDARD_KEY_EFFECT http://git.io/vOa86
20150804 16:43:31< irker299> Vultraz: Charles Dang Shadows_of_Deception:master 1e32adff23b7 / macros/rpg-utils.cfg: Use $unit.id instead of $x1,$y1 for inventory and spellcasting SUF http://git.io/vOa8i
20150804 16:43:35< irker299> Vultraz: Charles Dang Shadows_of_Deception:master 476eccf50909 / lua/wml_tags.lua: Split main functionality of [simplify_location_filter] into an internal lua func http://git.io/vOa8P
20150804 16:43:39< irker299> Vultraz: Charles Dang Shadows_of_Deception:master 65314a3b10d9 / lua/wml_tags.lua macros/items.cfg macros/scenario-utils.cfg: Replace REMOVE_EVENT_BARRIER with lua-based [unlock_gate] http://git.io/vOa81
20150804 17:29:03< irker299> Vultraz: Charles Dang Shadows_of_Deception:master 183a27e8cae9 / lua/ (conditional_tags.lua main.lua wml_tags.lua): Split [have_item] into a separate conditionals file. Currently not loaded. http://git.io/vOaSY
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20150804 17:58:53< pydsigner> Hi Dugi.
20150804 17:59:26< Dugi> pydsigner: Hi. Who are you? What's your nickname on the forums?
20150804 17:59:52< pydsigner> pyndragon
20150804 18:01:02< Dugi> Good to know.
20150804 18:01:11< Dugi> Nice to meet you.
20150804 18:01:46< pydsigner> FYI, this channel seems to have fallen mostly into disuse.
20150804 18:02:29< pydsigner> Other than an update bot posting.
20150804 18:02:33< vultraz> What he said.
20150804 18:03:41< Dugi> I have logged here mainly to have a chat with mattsc. The chat's over, though.
20150804 18:03:42< pydsigner> I wouldn't be opposed to that changing though
20150804 18:04:01< Dugi> Me neither, but don't expect me to participate much.
20150804 18:04:36< vultraz> No one uses UMC-Dev anymore
20150804 18:04:44< vultraz> Well, one or two people do. 
20150804 18:05:07< vultraz> But the majority of former users are on GitHub now
20150804 18:05:31< pydsigner> That's the svn.
20150804 18:05:48< Dugi> I find using GitHub useless when my projects have only one developer.
20150804 18:06:10< Dugi> And a few contributors, I can't neglect that.
20150804 18:06:12< pydsigner> It's always nice to have a backup history
20150804 18:06:15< vultraz> It serves as a backup. 
20150804 18:06:20< Dugi> But nothing I can't merge manually.
20150804 18:06:25< vultraz> As so people can get 'bleeding edge'.
20150804 18:06:25< Ravana_> I use github exactly as my addons backup
20150804 18:06:28< Dugi> The add-on server is for backups.
20150804 18:06:40< pydsigner> It only keeps one copy AFAIK
20150804 18:06:56< Dugi> That's enough, no?
20150804 18:07:22< Dugi> If something terribly breaks, I can always ask some players for an older copy.
20150804 18:08:48< pydsigner> That's.... bad practice IMO'
20150804 18:09:55< vultraz> Indeed
20150804 18:09:55< pydsigner> But honestly, the point of git isn't that it allows contribution
20150804 18:10:05< pydsigner> You can merge anything manually.
20150804 18:10:21< pydsigner> You can make zips and stash them manually.
20150804 18:10:43< Dugi> So far, the worst thing that happened to me was losing my local copy. Deleting a part of the local copy, uploading it and too many people updating too soon is unlikely.
20150804 18:10:53< Dugi> I also make zips occasionally.
20150804 18:11:02< Dugi> For things I am not uploading, I am using google drive.
20150804 18:11:09< Dugi> It has a lesser revision system.
20150804 18:12:04< pydsigner> Well, is it easier to manually zip stuff up or to do a git add -u; git commit -m "Fixed something"?
20150804 18:12:38< pydsigner> git doesn't new things possible, any more than switching from Assembly to C did.
20150804 18:12:48< pydsigner> It just makes them much easier.
20150804 18:13:00< pydsigner> Github makes contributing easier.
20150804 18:13:10< pydsigner> Git makes version control easier.
20150804 18:13:15< Dugi> I guess I could make a few scripts or a GUI to automate some hard to remember git commands.
20150804 18:14:06< pydsigner> Well, in practice basic use of git never requires the hard-to-remember commands
20150804 18:14:23< vultraz> Just use a git GUI if you really need it
20150804 18:14:28< vultraz> I use TortoiseGit
20150804 18:15:04< pydsigner> I use almost exclusively "git push", "git commit -m "Something", "git add some/path/to/file"
20150804 18:15:07< Ravana_> basic use doesn't require any commands even, only ever had to use commands to move git base folder 1 directory down
20150804 18:17:06< Dugi> There's even a program named git gui.
20150804 18:18:30< pydsigner> Yes
20150804 18:19:02< Dugi> Well, I'll think about it.
20150804 18:19:12< pydsigner> If you get into git more, you'll find how useful it is for comparing versions
20150804 18:19:49< pydsigner> Overwrite a file, test, git checkout the file, compare
20150804 18:20:52< irker299> Vultraz: Charles Dang Shadows_of_Deception:master 4f841a58ae28 / lua/gui/dialogs/item_pickup.lua: item_pickup: small tweak to layout if description is less than width of buttons http://git.io/vOVqu
20150804 18:22:57< Dugi> Time will show.
20150804 18:23:35< Dugi> vultraz: I wonder, why don't you get your campaign fully operable and fix small flaws and oddities afterwards? I have a feeling that you'll never finish that.
20150804 18:24:20< vultraz> This is me working on getting it operable. I make commits for each little step. 
20150804 18:26:22< Dugi> Those are ridiculously small commits.
20150804 18:27:45< vultraz> It's good practice 
20150804 18:28:04< vultraz> Sometimes I'll commit a batch commit that's just 'more progress'
20150804 18:28:09< Dugi> You will get lost in the thousands of petty commits.
20150804 18:28:14< vultraz> But usually, each is for a specific thing.
20150804 18:28:17< pydsigner> That's what I used to think
20150804 18:28:20< vultraz> Some are smaller than others
20150804 18:28:32< pydsigner> But it's better to be able to work on a change-by-change basis
20150804 18:29:15< pydsigner> Than to have "Added a bunch of stuff that wasn't related at all and affects different things" commits.
20150804 18:29:35< vultraz> ^
20150804 18:29:58< Dugi> Why don't you just focus on one thing, finish, commit is as 'improved the inventory window and fixed some bugs in it' and you'll find what exactly was done when you check the diff and see that you transformed a primitive inventory window into a much better one.
20150804 18:30:00< pydsigner> Again, as someone who used to do the latter, I'm glad I changed.
20150804 18:30:10< pydsigner> Dugi: That's acceptable
20150804 18:31:24< vultraz> Because sometimes it's a very small change and that's all there is to it
20150804 18:31:36< vultraz> But what you propose is acceptable 
20150804 18:32:32< Dugi> Yes, but it's also the natural way to deal with stuff. You don't work on a dozen of parts of program in one day (unless you are fixing bugs), you just work on one thing, finish, commit, do another thing, finish, commit, etc.The changes can be large, but are grouped because they are worked on in the same day. If you don't change your focus many times per day, you don't have to remember what were these parts of code doing.
20150804 18:33:27< Dugi> When I have an oddity somewhere, I don't fix it unless it's terribly annoying, I just wait till I get to alter that part of code.
20150804 18:33:36< vultraz> Well, that's you
20150804 18:33:44< Dugi> That way, I save time I would spend revising what did that part of the code do.
20150804 18:34:01< vultraz> Everyone has a different workflow
20150804 18:34:06< Dugi> It might be just my way, but it's also more efficient.
20150804 18:34:38< pydsigner> Bug fixes are more important than features.
20150804 18:35:03< pydsigner> So if you're working on a feature and a bug comes up, you just commit the one bug fix and then move on with feature making.
20150804 18:36:25< Dugi> And a comparison between all the add-pn stuff I have done and all the add-on stuff you have done is a proof - I don't want to belittle your work, but you are spending enormous amounts of time on the same things over and over and you haven't finished your first campaign yet. I can make a campaign in a month of occasional free time. It's not as polished as yours, but I can make it ten times faster at 70% quality.
20150804 18:37:15< pydsigner> Again though, that's a personal decision.
20150804 18:37:40< Dugi> Bugs don't have to be fixed immediately if nobody is using your code yet and it's not too annoying.
20150804 18:38:06< vultraz> My own lack of completion on this is not due to focusing on little details
20150804 18:38:08< Dugi> Yes, it is a personal decision, but I am quite disturbed to see how slow vultraz is.
20150804 18:38:10< pydsigner> For me, campaigns are a form of art.
20150804 18:38:17< vultraz> It's due to me not working on it for months at a time
20150804 18:38:25< Dugi> vultraz: So what is it?
20150804 18:38:28< pydsigner> 70% quality is nearly an F.
20150804 18:38:48< pydsigner> [Depending on the academic circle]
20150804 18:38:51< vultraz> I simply lack motivation sometimes
20150804 18:38:52< Dugi> I know you aren't working on it always, but over the years, you should have had enough free time.
20150804 18:39:19< pydsigner> In vultraz's defense, I will point out that he's also a mainline developer.
20150804 18:39:34< vultraz> ^
20150804 18:39:51< vultraz> I dedicated a lot of time early this year to working on Northern Rebirth
20150804 18:40:10< vultraz> The second half still remains to do, but the first is improved.
20150804 18:40:33< vultraz> I also was on vacation all of June
20150804 18:40:41< Dugi> pydsigner: If you know only 70% of crucial words in a language, you suck at the language. If you can solve 70% of mathematical problems on a topic, it's not that bad.
20150804 18:41:22< Dugi> vultraz: You did not work on anything during your vacation? Slacker! I have coded spellcasting including a simpler AI to handle it during my stay in Croatia.
20150804 18:41:34< vultraz> I was without my laptop
20150804 18:41:46< vultraz> Do you expect me to code on an iPad mini?
20150804 18:41:46< Dugi> Why didn't you take it?
20150804 18:42:13< pydsigner> vacation usually ≠ work
20150804 18:42:16< vultraz> Also, I was in Paris for part of that time. If you go to Paris and spend your time programming... there's something wrong with you
20150804 18:42:31< Dugi> I carry my laptop anywhere with me.Hiking, skiing, always I enjoy to return to a laptop to use the time when my limbs ache somehow.
20150804 18:42:52< Dugi> Is there so many sights to see in Paris for a MONTH?
20150804 18:43:01< vultraz> I said
20150804 18:43:04< vultraz> PART of the time
20150804 18:43:19< vultraz> I was away for a month, PART of the time in Paris
20150804 18:44:01< Dugi> Sightseeing during the day, partying at night?
20150804 18:44:22< vultraz> I'm 17 and don't speak French, do enlighten me on where I could party
20150804 18:44:24< Dugi> Okay, so maybe no laoptop in Paris, but what about the rest?
20150804 18:44:58< vultraz> The rest of the time I was in the States visiting relatives
20150804 18:45:22< Dugi> Well, you can drink from 18 and buying alcohol in the age of 16 or 17 works. Why didn't you learn French, btw?
20150804 18:45:39< Dugi> Anyway, I hate partying.
20150804 18:45:52< Dugi> Except metal concerts.
20150804 18:46:17< Dugi> And you were occupied full time with those relatives?
20150804 18:46:36< Dugi> I guess I am just trash talking here.
20150804 18:46:50< Dugi> See ya later, I will not waste anyone's time anymore.
20150804 18:46:53-!- Dugi [93fbd11d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.251.209.29] has quit []
20150804 18:46:53< vultraz> No I was not
20150804 18:47:03< pydsigner> .........................................................................
20150804 18:47:14< Ravana_> really, there is no need to complain that people don't work enough on their addons, it won't make anything better
20150804 18:47:21< vultraz> The real reason I didn't have my laptop was actually because the screen's broken
20150804 18:47:23< vultraz> :P
20150804 18:47:42< vultraz> Seems to be a reoccurring theme with my laptops
20150804 18:48:37< vultraz> But what I said still stands 
20150804 18:48:43< vultraz> If you go on vacation and instead work
20150804 18:48:47< vultraz> WHY WOULD YOU EVEN GO!
20150804 18:49:20< vultraz> "Oh, yes, chilling in Paris... working on my Wesnoth campaign"
20150804 18:49:25< vultraz> da faq?
20150804 18:50:01 * vultraz shakes head
20150804 18:50:45< vultraz> Like his campaigns are somehow paragons of quality
20150804 18:51:52< pydsigner> <Dugi> pydsigner: If you know only 70% of crucial words in a language, you suck at the language.
20150804 18:52:54 * vultraz shakes head again
20150804 19:11:49< zookeeper> oh what's going on here...
20150804 19:11:56< pydsigner> Heh.
20150804 19:16:35< zookeeper> well that was... interesting? hilarious? i don't know what
20150804 19:16:46< vultraz> That about sums up everything regarding dugi
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 05 00:00:21 2015