--- Log opened Fri Aug 14 00:00:08 2015
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20150814 00:42:23< celticminstrel> Whee, new version of my campaign finally.
20150814 00:56:17< celticminstrel> Also finally decided to put it on github.
20150814 00:56:21< celticminstrel> Also ancestral...
20150814 00:56:29< ancestral> ohai
20150814 00:56:49< celticminstrel> You were going to test a thing, yes?
20150814 00:57:37< celticminstrel> And possibly merge it?
20150814 00:59:15< ancestral> I’ll test right now
20150814 00:59:45< ancestral> Hmm
20150814 00:59:57< ancestral> Maybe there’s binary information that’s missing?
20150814 01:00:02< celticminstrel> ?
20150814 01:00:08< ancestral> The project file just opens as a text file in Xcode
20150814 01:00:18 * celticminstrel notes that we're technically in the wrong channel.
20150814 01:00:22< celticminstrel> ...eh? That's weird,
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20150814 02:24:30< aeth> anyone want to take over for side 5 in my RPG game in progress if no obs wants it?
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20150814 03:04:16< celticminstrel> I want a khalifate campaign.
20150814 03:04:32< aeth> there's khalifate subplots possible in my RPG
20150814 03:04:39< aeth> people were about to get to it and then suddenly... out of time
20150814 03:04:42< aeth> so I had to end it with the orcs
20150814 03:04:56< celticminstrel> I should play an MP game sometime.
20150814 03:05:06< aeth> MP is where a lot of the fanciness happens
20150814 03:05:52< celticminstrel> Searching for khalifate campaigns on the add-ons server reveals precisely one match.
20150814 03:06:00< celticminstrel> "A New Order"
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20150814 03:06:21< celticminstrel> It's really long. o.O
20150814 03:07:03< celticminstrel> Apparently I left out the underscore when putting in my name for the 1.13 server. Meh.
20150814 03:08:40< aeth> celticminstrel: well my RPG is basically an RPG with a game master
20150814 03:08:48< aeth> celticminstrel: so I can spawn in units and make up plots as I go along
20150814 03:09:04< aeth> it has Khalifate units, and on desert maps it definitely makes sense to use them
20150814 03:09:11< celticminstrel> Indeed.
20150814 03:09:13< aeth> So there are definitely a lot of Khalifate plotlines
20150814 03:09:24< celticminstrel> I want to do a desert map, but it doesn't fit well with my elvish theme.
20150814 03:09:24< aeth> celticminstrel: if you want to look at it before I end the game.
20150814 03:09:38< celticminstrel> Eh sure why not?
20150814 03:09:49< aeth> it's on 1.12 (Aethaeryn is my username)
20150814 03:09:49< celticminstrel> How do I find it?
20150814 03:09:59< aeth> just filter for aethaeryn
20150814 03:10:09< aeth> I haven't published yet, and really there are no pre-made plots yet so
20150814 03:10:44< aeth> if there's a demand I can expand the woods map to the south to have some desert action possible
20150814 03:11:04< celticminstrel> Viewing replay now.
20150814 03:11:29< aeth> be warned that everyone had to go by the time they got to the Khalifate part
20150814 03:11:34< aeth> so you see all of like 2 turns
20150814 03:11:50< aeth> the guy playing purple (with a Khalifate unit) does something interesting at the end
20150814 03:15:08< celticminstrel> Each player has one "leader" unit?
20150814 03:15:24< aeth> to start with
20150814 03:15:38< aeth> are you caught up or are you watching it slowly?
20150814 03:15:50< celticminstrel> Watching the replay slowly.
20150814 03:15:54< aeth> ah
20150814 03:16:00< aeth> well I won't spoil some of the things I do later then
20150814 03:16:23< aeth> I'm using the 24 hour time of day btw
20150814 03:16:35< celticminstrel> Random goblin-on-goblin attack suddenly.
20150814 03:16:50< celticminstrel> Oh, I didn't notice that until you pointed it out.
20150814 03:17:10< aeth> It looks like it allows the players to cover more ground
20150814 03:17:17< aeth> In older playthroughs they had to retreat more often
20150814 03:17:39< celticminstrel> Makes sense.
20150814 03:17:54< aeth> especially when they're lawful-skewed like they were this game
20150814 03:18:03< aeth> although I guess a chaotic-skew would advance mostly at night
20150814 03:19:59< aeth> celticminstrel: the goblin on goblin attack isn't really random... it's just how goblin discipline works
20150814 03:20:09< aeth> he let the prisoner escape
20150814 03:20:16< celticminstrel> In your mythos. :P
20150814 03:20:24< celticminstrel> Speaking of night, it just fell.
20150814 03:20:43< aeth> that long night is brutal, even with just the same goblins they've been encountering the whole game
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20150814 03:20:55< aeth> it really changes the character of what happens
20150814 03:21:31< celticminstrel> It keeps scrolling over to that random lich.
20150814 03:21:37< aeth> yes :(
20150814 03:21:57< aeth> red needs a leader so (1) red can take villages and (2) red can have basically 0 units and still "play" (to spawn more)
20150814 03:22:28< aeth> on quick replays it doesn't scroll for leader iirc but you don't get the [message] and chat
20150814 03:23:04< celticminstrel> Red is?
20150814 03:23:09< aeth> I like what purple does. I set up the red fort to be just slightly beyond the players' capability
20150814 03:23:49< aeth> celticminstrel: I played as red, teal, and white. red = enemies, teal = NPCs (mostly immoble, for decoration, and speaking plot, etc.), white = a 5th side on the player's team so I can e.g. let players see what NPCs are doing or hand a side over to an observer
20150814 03:24:13< aeth> technically speaking even though it's 4p + 1 I can make it 6p + 1 by handing over p7 and p8 to observers
20150814 03:24:42< celticminstrel> There can also be more than 8 sides, can't there?
20150814 03:24:49< aeth> p8 is technically on red's side, but I can change teams (and that means the party can split up into hostile sides too)
20150814 03:25:01< aeth> celticminstrel: I can make it 9 I guess. I don't think you can have more than 9 non-AI sides
20150814 03:25:19< aeth> I used to hand red's spawns off to the AI but the AI is really, really dumb
20150814 03:25:24< shadowm> It's not about AI vs. not-AI, it's MP vs. not MP.
20150814 03:25:25< aeth> So I play as red
20150814 03:25:27< celticminstrel> You can't?
20150814 03:25:31< aeth> shadowm: oh
20150814 03:25:53< celticminstrel> There's a limit to how many sides can appear in the lobby, right?
20150814 03:26:08< aeth> celticminstrel: So I'm basically economical with the sides I have. p1 is everything hostile, p6 is everything not hostile, and p7-p8 are spares
20150814 03:26:48< aeth> I don't e.g. have a different side for each different friendly/neutral you encounter
20150814 03:26:58< aeth> Especially because you're probably not going to see them after you leave
20150814 03:27:32< aeth> last game I played (I think?) I actually gave p8 (spare that defaults to hostile side) to an observer
20150814 03:27:37< celticminstrel> A player just died.
20150814 03:27:37< aeth> and basically had p8 play the enemies
20150814 03:27:50< aeth> celticminstrel: yes, it's tough and I do not pull punches (except of course by spawning realistic challenges)
20150814 03:28:18< aeth> I think two matches ago on this map two player characters died near the start on the goblins
20150814 03:28:38< aeth> the long day kind of makes it easier for the mostly lawful (ime) players to not die at the start
20150814 03:28:55< aeth> goblins at night under leadership are (I think) 9-3... at least the one that got the kill was
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20150814 03:30:49< aeth> next match I'm probably going to do walking corpses instead though... no leadership, might be easier, who knows
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20150814 03:33:56< celticminstrel> Is it my imagination or will most players not even see all the dialogue amongst the orcs?
20150814 03:34:12< aeth> Do they not see the dialog if they don't see the units? Idk
20150814 03:34:17< aeth> There were a lot of observers though
20150814 03:34:20< aeth> So at least someone was entertained
20150814 03:34:25< celticminstrel> Fair enough I guess.
20150814 03:34:39< celticminstrel> Ah, sudden khalifate!
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20150814 03:34:59< aeth> you're getting near the end then
20150814 03:35:19< celticminstrel> I see they lack portraits. Or at least some of them do.
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20150814 03:36:12< aeth> all but one, at least in 1.12
20150814 03:36:20< aeth> talib/hakim
20150814 03:36:24< aeth> maybe I should have had that unit do the speaking
20150814 03:37:30< celticminstrel> Are the two lich lords solely so that the side has a leader?
20150814 03:37:32< aeth> I think you're at the part where everyone has to go
20150814 03:37:43< aeth> and purple ignores the whole desert sideplot
20150814 03:37:57< aeth> way around? forget about it :-p
20150814 03:38:54< aeth> it's ironic how the desert player is the one who ignores the desert subplot
20150814 03:39:47< celticminstrel> Did I just see the shaman walk up to someone and heal them?
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20150814 03:40:11< aeth> no
20150814 03:40:15< aeth> maybe that was the village?
20150814 03:40:34< celticminstrel> There was no village there. I probably imagined something.
20150814 03:40:41< celticminstrel> Maybe the shaman was already there.
20150814 03:41:11< aeth> possibly
20150814 03:41:13< celticminstrel> Sometimes the whole screen flashes black for a moment.
20150814 03:41:18< aeth> maybe it is a replay bug idk
20150814 03:45:12< celticminstrel> Now you're just pllacing random chasms.
20150814 03:45:21< celticminstrel> Or actually I think it's over now.
20150814 03:45:24< aeth> yes
20150814 03:45:27< aeth> everyone left
20150814 03:45:32< aeth> We kind of reached a breaking point
20150814 03:45:38< aeth> and there's no time for another mini plot
20150814 03:48:42< celticminstrel> Can you choose any L1 non-monster unit?
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20150814 03:52:05< aeth> celticminstrel: that wouldn't be fun
20150814 03:52:21< celticminstrel> ?
20150814 03:52:27< aeth> celticminstrel: you can choose any unit in mainline (if it's missing it's a bug), with the only exception being a level *cap* that can be raised or lowered
20150814 03:52:39< aeth> yes, even tentacles
20150814 03:52:43< aeth> or goblins
20150814 03:52:45< celticminstrel> Ah.
20150814 03:52:49< aeth> the level cap happened to be level 1
20150814 03:52:59< aeth> There are advantages to lower levels. More upgrade points because you level faster
20150814 03:53:01< celticminstrel> You can choose L2 or L3 units, then?
20150814 03:53:07< aeth> If I enbaled them
20150814 03:53:07< celticminstrel> If the GM allows it.
20150814 03:53:11< aeth> *enabled
20150814 03:53:12 * celticminstrel nods.
20150814 03:53:14< aeth> I can even raise the cap to level 5
20150814 03:53:19< aeth> and then you could e.g. be a fire dragon
20150814 03:53:25< celticminstrel> Well, there aren't really many level 5 units.
20150814 03:53:27< aeth> I just adjust the difficulty of the units spawned to the units chosen
20150814 03:53:29< aeth> right
20150814 03:53:40< celticminstrel> Isn't the fire dragon level 4? The skeletal dragon is, at least.
20150814 03:53:42< aeth> level 4/5 is why it's a limit
20150814 03:53:47< aeth> skeletal is 4, fire is 5
20150814 03:53:50< celticminstrel> Ah.
20150814 03:53:51< aeth> fire dragon is one of the few level 5s
20150814 03:53:54< aeth> very few
20150814 03:54:00< aeth> elder mage is a level 5, but it's weaker than the level 4 mage
20150814 03:54:02< celticminstrel> Delfador is another, yes.
20150814 03:54:17< aeth> fire dragon is probably the reason why you'd want level 5
20150814 03:54:27< aeth> most OP units are 4, e.g. sylph, ancient lich, etc.
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20150814 06:30:28< celticminstrel> Incidentally, an [objectives]silent=yes[/objectives] in the start event successfully suppresses the objectives.
20150814 06:34:41< celticminstrel> On a down note, it appears that [heals] does not work with a negative value.
20150814 06:35:29< celticminstrel> Unless of course it's a filter problem.
20150814 06:36:51< celticminstrel> ...wait, what's the difference between [filter] and [filter_self]? At first glance the descriptions look the same, but reading closely it sounds like they're a bit different.
20150814 06:39:13< celticminstrel> (It also sounds like [heals] and [refenerate] are actually the same.)
20150814 06:39:16< celticminstrel> ^regenerate
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20150814 07:01:37< celticminstrel> ...it does work. Somehow I just didn't notice it the first time? Or maybe something about it being a debug-placed unit messed something up.
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20150814 08:21:25< aeth> celticminstrel: a game with no objectives? :o
20150814 08:21:32< aeth> open world?
20150814 08:21:40< aeth> actually that's kind of like my game, there aren't really any objectives in it
20150814 08:21:43< celticminstrel> No, actually I add the objectives on turn 2.
20150814 08:21:47< aeth> ah
20150814 08:21:55< aeth> well my game's like a metaphor for life, no real objectives :-p
20150814 08:23:04< celticminstrel> I'd also like to know if Ravana's use case was solved by [objectives]silent=yes[/objectives]. I suspect that might erase the objectives rather than just suppressing the popup.
20150814 08:23:34< celticminstrel> One scenario in my campaign gives the user control of two sides, so I have that same problem too.
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20150814 10:03:43< Ravana_> celticminstrel: haven't had chance to try yet, been focusing on the two new factions; there is only point to start playtesting once unit ids have finalized for the release
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20150814 12:54:35< vultraz> celticminstrel: silent sets objectives AND suppresses the popup 
20150814 12:55:03< vultraz> celticminstrel: so if you have previous objectives, it will replace them, yes
20150814 12:56:03< vultraz> celticminstrel: however, if you want to give a player control of two sides, why not just use side= to give each unique (or side=a,b if they're the same) objectives?
20150814 12:57:07< vultraz> celticminstrel: well, a better explanation would be that silent ONLY silences the popup, the rest of the stuff happens normally (ie, setting the new objectives)
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20150814 17:44:06< celticminstrel> ...oh my, I added so many AMLAs that a scrollbar is needed.
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20150814 17:45:31< celticminstrel> How would I add entries to Weapon Specials in the help?
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20150814 17:52:48< celticminstrel> These AMLAs should really be mutually exclusive though.
20150814 17:53:13< Ravana_> I believe that list is created from weapon specials that are loaded without needing anything from you
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20150814 17:53:46< celticminstrel> Well, my custom weapon specials aren't included.
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20150814 17:54:30< Ravana_> does unit_type have it
20150814 17:54:40< celticminstrel> Have what?
20150814 17:54:50< Ravana_> that weapon special
20150814 17:55:13< celticminstrel> It's in an [advancement], so sort of?
20150814 17:55:53< Ravana_> try give it to dummy unit_type then
20150814 17:56:15< celticminstrel> 'kay, I'll try that a bit later.
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20150814 18:04:46< celticminstrel> That seems to work.
20150814 18:05:11< celticminstrel> Oddly, one ability (not weapon special) was listed even though there's no unit that natively has it.
20150814 18:09:33< celticminstrel> What about traits?
20150814 18:09:58 * celticminstrel will try the same thing.
20150814 18:10:30< celticminstrel> ...oh wait, I happen to know that one race already has one of those traits, and it's still not listed...
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20150814 18:15:57< celticminstrel> The traits aren't sorted, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're hardcoded topics or something.
20150814 18:20:57< Ravana_> traits don't seem to show up
20150814 18:21:27< celticminstrel> I'm dubious about the intersection point of the two Khalifate horse lines.
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20150814 23:56:31< aeth> What's the easiest way to get a list of translatable strings? Right now I'm just grepping the po directory, which kind of seems slow because of all of the languages.
20150814 23:57:34< aeth> hmm, actually it's faster in the terminal for some reason, there must be something that slows grep -r down considerably in emacs
20150814 23:58:54< aeth> ah, and I can just do something like */es.po (the actual language doesn't matter afaik) to narrow it down what it searches a lot
--- Log closed Sat Aug 15 00:00:49 2015