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20150915 06:22:05< wedge009> Aginor: Ah, I've only ever used Eclipse with Java, mainly for work. In the projectfiles directory there are a few options. I used VC9 as a base for Visual Studio 14/2015. Xcode is for OS X. CodeLite didn't work for me, while CodeBlocks seems to be for Windows. I use CodeBlocks-SCons in Linux, though I run scons from the command line for wesnothd, as it seems to not work from inside CodeBlocks.
20150915 06:23:07< wedge009> Aginor: I suppose I just need to find how to get the sdl2 branch to use SDL2 libraries and headers. It compiles fine, but obviously is still using SDL1.2. On the plus side, at least you know the code is backwards-compatible with SDL1.2 builds!
20150915 06:26:32< Aginor> wedge009: I'll make SDL2 the default later tonight
20150915 06:26:55< Aginor> I need to leave for a music lesson shortly, and music lessons trump any other commitments :)
20150915 06:27:32< wedge009> No rush! And I didn't know you were musically inclined as well.
20150915 06:30:10< Aginor> it's two tiny changes now when I've got the cmake change in master
20150915 06:30:33< Aginor> I'd do it now, but I want to test properly so I don't inadvertedly break something
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20150915 06:30:54< Aginor> anyway, I need to get going
20150915 06:30:56< wedge009> You go and do what you need to.
20150915 06:30:57< Aginor> catch you later
20150915 06:31:03< wedge009> Thanks.
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20150915 08:48:05< irker753> wesnoth: Andreas Löf wesnoth:sdl2 c5bec31dae90 / CMakeLists.txt: Change the ordering of the CMakeLists so options comes first. http://git.io/vZKub
20150915 08:48:07< irker753> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:sdl2 203411d0428a / data/core/ (images/portraits/monsters/transparent/yeti.png units/monsters/Yeti.cfg): New generic portrait for Yeti by LordBob http://git.io/vZzj8
20150915 08:48:10< irker753> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:sdl2 1c8bf80634cd / data/core/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Added new generic portrait for Ancient Wose by LordBob http://git.io/vZzjB
20150915 08:48:13< irker753> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:sdl2 8b1f3c856cc6 / src/ (6 files): move undo_stack to gamestate class http://git.io/vZ2FV
20150915 08:48:15< irker753> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:sdl2 ca0bf513aa74 / src/unit.cpp: fix a segfault when loading a savegame. http://git.io/vZ2Fw
20150915 08:48:17< irker753> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:sdl2 20a2a17f880d / src/ (replay.cpp replay.hpp): fix chat during mp replays http://git.io/vZ2Fo
20150915 08:48:19< irker753> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:sdl2 276a79ab3b91 / src/ (replay.cpp replay.hpp): remove unused function http://git.io/vZ2F6
20150915 08:48:21< irker753> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:sdl2 445ceb119fe7 / src/playsingle_controller.cpp: add a comment http://git.io/vZ2Fi
20150915 08:48:22< Aginor> sorry about the spam, I did a merge
20150915 08:48:23< irker753> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:sdl2 757cde164b73 / src/play_controller.cpp: fix mp failing to load scenarios http://git.io/vZ2FP
20150915 08:48:25< irker753> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:sdl2 f01252a42c25 / data/lua/wml-tags.lua src/scripting/game_lua_kernel.cpp: add [unsynced] actionwml http://git.io/vZ2FX
20150915 08:48:27< irker753> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:sdl2 6010455f563f / src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): add [on_undo]/[on_redo] actionwml http://git.io/vZ2FS
20150915 08:48:29< irker753> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:sdl2 fada491e564d / src/help/help.cpp: Increased width of help browser http://git.io/vZab1
20150915 08:48:32< irker753> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:sdl2 268973e8afcb / data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/05a_01_The_Pursuit.cfg: NR S5.1: split final lines of dialog into a death event http://git.io/vZVuQ
20150915 08:48:35< irker753> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:sdl2 f9927cb6035c / data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/ (maps/07a_Settling_Disputes.map scenarios/07a_Settling_Disputes.cfg): NR S7a: new map http://git.io/vZVu7
20150915 08:48:38< irker753> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:sdl2 ca66e1f1fcc4 / data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/05a_01_The_Pursuit.cfg: NR S5.1: replaced Malifor's spawn mechanic with force CTH on anyone by Morvin an http://git.io/vZV2V
20150915 08:48:41< irker753> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:sdl2 e46070ab303b / src/editor/map/context_manager.cpp: Resolve Bug #20036 http://git.io/vZrYn
20150915 08:48:43< irker753> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:sdl2 870053c0eccb / src/editor/map/context_manager.cpp: Merge pull request #490 from Wedge009/Bug_Fix_20036 http://git.io/vZrYc
20150915 08:48:49< irker753> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:sdl2 ef559d0ffd76 / data/tools/GUI.pyw: GUI.pyw: allow binding tooltips to tagged elements of widgets http://git.io/vZoCZ
20150915 08:48:49< irker753> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:sdl2 1d2944569c25 / data/tools/wmllint-1.4: wmllint-1.4: open files as UTF-8 and use Unicode literals http://git.io/vZoCn
20150915 08:48:50< irker753> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:sdl2 91f5bf16c2f3 / data/tools/wmllint-1.4: wmllint-1.4: use Python 3 range() http://git.io/vZoCc
20150915 08:48:52< irker753> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:sdl2 a12d99e98cfb / data/tools/wmllint-1.4: wmllint-1.4: use 'x in line' instead of 'line.count(x)' http://git.io/vZoCC
20150915 08:48:54< irker753> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:sdl2 b8dfa190f2ec / data/tools/wmllint-1.4: wmllint-1.4: replaced a dict(map()) with dict comprehension http://git.io/vZooV
20150915 08:48:56< irker753> wesnoth: Andreas wesnoth:sdl2 2d03c0b08d21 / CMakeLists.txt: Merge pull request #486 from aginor/cmakereorder http://git.io/vZKuN
20150915 08:48:58< irker753> wesnoth: Andreas Löf wesnoth:sdl2 8a86b547cee3 / / (37 files in 16 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into sdl2 http://git.io/vZHPs
20150915 08:49:00< irker753> wesnoth: Andreas Löf wesnoth:sdl2 e8c3e99dadf6 / CMakeLists.txt SConstruct: Make SDL2 the default in cmake and scons http://git.io/vZHPG
20150915 08:49:02< irker753> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:sdl2 d894c8e5e600 / src/sdl/alpha.cpp: Correct Surface Alpha Blending in SDL2 http://git.io/vZHPZ
20150915 08:49:04< irker753> wesnoth: Andreas Löf wesnoth:sdl2 6bde4e89e911 / : Merge branch 'sdl2' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth into sdl2 http://git.io/vZHPn
20150915 08:51:41< Aginor> wedge009: it is done, SDL2 is the default version on the sdl2 branch
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20150915 08:56:06< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7369 (sdl2 - 6bde4e8 : Andreas Löf): The build was broken.
20150915 08:56:06< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/80389789
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20150915 08:57:29< Aginor> so, who looks after travis? :)
20150915 08:57:37< Aginor> Checking for Simple DirectMedia Layer library version >= 2.0.0... no
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20150915 09:59:53< Soliton> you probably need to change/add some packages in the install section of .travis.yml.
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20150915 10:09:09< Aginor> thanks Soliton 
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20150915 10:21:40< Aginor> can someone who's running debian/ubuntu verify that libsdl2-image-dev libsdl2-mixer-dev libsdl2-net-dev libsdl2-ttf-dev are the right package names?
20150915 10:28:02< irker753> wesnoth: Andreas Löf wesnoth:sdl2 a815d3537070 / .travis.yml: Add SDL2 to the travis install image http://git.io/vZQkQ
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20150915 10:31:28< Soliton> https://packages.debian.org/search?section=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=libsdl2
20150915 10:31:53< Aginor> that's what I was basing it off
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20150915 10:36:47< Aginor> that seems to have sorted travis
20150915 10:36:53< Aginor> thanks Soliton 
20150915 10:37:17< Soliton> no problem.
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20150915 10:48:13< wedge009> Aginor: Thank you. I'll try to do some testing tomorrow.
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20150915 11:12:09< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7370 (sdl2 - a815d35 : Andreas Löf): The build is still failing.
20150915 11:12:10< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/80405383
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20150915 15:23:31< gfgtdf> i recently implemented lua acces to units advancements with a new unit.advancemets field, but i'm still not wure whether its better to call it unit.advancement or unit.advancements i think advancements would make more sense but in wml it's also called advancement
20150915 15:23:43< gfgtdf> any opinions on this ?
20150915 15:24:31< gfgtdf> same ofr unit.attacks
20150915 15:24:33< gfgtdf> for
20150915 15:24:49< vultraz> I would say the plural form is more logical
20150915 15:26:47< gfgtdf> vultraz: y thats what i thougth aswell but mabye it confuisung for wml/lua devs if the plural form is used on lua but not in wml
20150915 15:27:27< Turuk> consistency might be a better visual tool
20150915 15:27:49< Turuk> also, contrariness to vultraz cannot be avoided.
20150915 15:28:25< gfgtdf> 'visual tool' ?
20150915 15:28:27< vultraz> eh, Turuk has a point
20150915 15:28:44< vultraz> idk what he means by contrariness to me, though :P
20150915 15:28:53< vultraz> do I always say the wrong thing?
20150915 15:29:07< Turuk> Nope, just I like being opposite to you
20150915 15:29:29< Turuk> gfgtdf, visual tool in that it matches from one place to the other
20150915 15:30:09< Turuk> Plural may be more logical from a word structure perspective as to what it actually does, but consistency is key from logically matching types
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20150915 15:31:12< vultraz> yeah, I agree
20150915 15:31:16< vultraz> go with silgular 
20150915 15:31:19< vultraz> singular 
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20150915 15:52:21< gfgtdf> vultraz: you know where [effect]apply_to=type is used ?
20150915 15:53:01< vultraz> nope
20150915 15:54:35< celticminstrel> I might use it if I wanted to offer an advancement to a type that's the same level.
20150915 15:54:35< celticminstrel> I dunno if there's a difference between it and normal advancement.
20150915 15:55:38< celticminstrel> It would also be useful in [object].
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20150915 16:07:04< vultraz> you can just use advance_to in [unit] for the former
20150915 16:07:38< celticminstrel> So there's no difference then?
20150915 16:08:56< vultraz> difference to what?
20150915 16:09:15< vultraz> (it could be useful in object, I guess, if you want to change a unit's type for a duration)
20150915 16:09:20< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: one difference is that [effect]apply_to=type spams your unit wml with [object]/[advamcent]s if you do it very often
20150915 16:09:39< gfgtdf> vultraz: actually i doubt that that works properly
20150915 16:09:42< celticminstrel> Which brings up another question.
20150915 16:09:59< gfgtdf> vultraz: for example what shoudl happen when you use a temporary object and then teh unit adavances normally ?
20150915 16:10:04< celticminstrel> Unit type changes are normally permanent, would expiring an [effect]apply_to=type even work?
20150915 16:10:43< vultraz> No idea, really
20150915 16:10:51< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i think there is some code that makes specially that work, but it not very reliable for example becasue of that case above
20150915 16:10:56< celticminstrel> Maybe I'll do some testing soon.
20150915 16:12:12< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: To answer your question, I think it would make sense to revert the unit type and then reapply any experience gained since the transformation... which means it needs to be somehow recorded or calculated...
20150915 16:12:59< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: well but tha woudl give the player the option to choose another advancement
20150915 16:13:11< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: also it would mot likeley heaö the unit
20150915 16:13:11< celticminstrel> It might.
20150915 16:13:19< gfgtdf> heal*
20150915 16:13:32< celticminstrel> True...
20150915 16:13:39< gfgtdf> i actually think its  abad idea to supprt removing apply_to=type
20150915 16:14:33< celticminstrel> Since ActionWML [object] now supports ... what was it ... the key to apply the effects without writing the object?
20150915 16:15:17< celticminstrel> ...I was going to say fix that to yes for type changes, but on second thoughts I don't think that would be enough.
20150915 16:17:08< celticminstrel> The other option would be removing [effect]apply_to=type and telling people to use [transform_unit] instead. Then if they want a temporary change they can deal with undoing it however they want.
20150915 16:18:21< vultraz> Really, we don't need to support changing everything in an object
20150915 16:19:06< celticminstrel> It's redundant in [advancement], works fine in [object] as long as you don't want to remove it (but then why do you need [object] at all?), and doesn't make much sense in [trait] (I suppose you could make a trait that changes the unit type to a slightly different one, but that's pretty much what variations do already)
20150915 16:19:35< celticminstrel> vultraz: You say that after I added [effect]s that can change almost everything? :P
20150915 16:20:22< vultraz> yes :P
20150915 16:21:03< celticminstrel> So basically, people using apply_to=type in [advancement] can just use advances_to=; people using apply_to=type in [trait] (if any) can instead use [variation]; and people using apply_to=type in [object] can instead use [transform_unit].
20150915 16:30:22< celticminstrel> For the record, git grep reveals no use of it in the mainline campaigns.
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20150915 16:35:14< celticminstrel> BTW vultraz, I did that thing you suggested: https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/wesnoth/tree/amla-filter
20150915 16:36:57< vultraz> Did I suggest that?
20150915 16:37:07< vultraz> I thought I suggested [show_if]
20150915 16:37:09< celticminstrel> Well, more or less. You said [show_if].
20150915 16:37:11 * vultraz tries to remember
20150915 16:37:32< vultraz> Well, show if would take conditional tags
20150915 16:37:35< vultraz> O
20150915 16:37:40< vultraz> I'm not sure how filter would work
20150915 16:37:41< celticminstrel> I was thinking of adding a second tag for that.
20150915 16:38:00< vultraz> show this amla if this unit is....
20150915 16:38:08< vultraz> on a location maybe?
20150915 16:38:20< celticminstrel> Sure.
20150915 16:38:22< vultraz> or filter_wml could be useful I guess
20150915 16:39:33< celticminstrel> Or show it only if the unit is level 3 - could be useful if you use [effect] to add AMLAs.
20150915 16:40:02< celticminstrel> I haven't tested it yet.
20150915 16:40:26< celticminstrel> I think [allow_if] would be equally simple.
20150915 16:43:06< vultraz> Hopefully
20150915 16:43:15< vultraz> since 1.13 allows custom conditional tags, it would be really useful
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20150915 16:53:46< gfgtdf> vultraz: 1.12 also aupports lua_function in unit filter which is just as powerful
20150915 16:54:08< vultraz> Is that a function call?
20150915 16:54:35< gfgtdf> vultraz: it calls a suom lua function
20150915 16:54:36< celticminstrel> lua_function is a little weird though, I might look into changing how it works.
20150915 16:55:08< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i actualy think that wy is teh easiest to implement (for the c++ code)
20150915 16:55:14< gfgtdf> way*
20150915 16:55:20< celticminstrel> Not really?
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20150915 16:55:28< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: what woudl be easier ?
20150915 16:55:32< celticminstrel> Well, I don't know for sure, but...
20150915 16:55:46< celticminstrel> I don't think the way I have in mind would be significantly harder.
20150915 16:56:07< vultraz> gfgtdf: what does it do with the return value?
20150915 16:56:10< vultraz> check if it's true?
20150915 16:56:15< gfgtdf> vultraz: yes
20150915 16:56:33< vultraz> so if I called a conditional function and it returned false... the event or whatever would not fire?
20150915 16:56:54< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm yes but i dont think this is usually used for events
20150915 16:57:11< celticminstrel> It could be though.
20150915 16:57:18< celticminstrel> There's no reason for it not to be.
20150915 16:58:30< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: y but its rather complicated to use and the 1.13 custom condition tags cna also be used there
20150915 16:59:00< celticminstrel> Filters and conditions are two different things.
20150915 16:59:01< vultraz> the custom condition tags really are awesome
20150915 16:59:36< celticminstrel> I dunno, do you have access to the auto-stored unit variables in [filter_condition]?
20150915 16:59:45< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: id' say you have
20150915 17:00:24< celticminstrel> So you could probably just use [filter_condition] for everything if you really wanted (with lots of [have_unit]).
20150915 17:00:40< celticminstrel> But I think it makes more sense to use filters in many cases.
20150915 17:00:42< vultraz> celticminstrel: yes
20150915 17:00:47< vultraz> You do
20150915 17:01:16< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: you cannot use filter_condition ina unit filter
20150915 17:01:49< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: I meant using it in events exclusively, no other filters.
20150915 17:02:11< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm ok there maybe
20150915 17:03:07< gfgtdf> vultraz: you can for example use it in a [damage][filter_self] lua_function=somefunction weapon_special to make a weapon spaecial that doubles the weapons damage in 10% of cases. (example taken form the bugtracker)
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20150915 17:24:31< celticminstrel> It looks like game_lua_kernel::run_filter never calls the lua_unit destructor.
20150915 17:24:54< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm i think it does
20150915 17:25:01< celticminstrel> Where?
20150915 17:25:22< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/scripting/game_lua_kernel.cpp#L219
20150915 17:25:44< celticminstrel> Aha, okay.
20150915 17:25:50< celticminstrel> Garbage collection.
20150915 17:26:10< celticminstrel> So yeah, it doesn't call it, but it doesn't need to.
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20150915 18:09:55< zookeeper> Turuk, i guess you're not comfortable doing the HttT work in a fork?
20150915 18:11:06< Turuk> zookeeper, I could certainly do that
20150915 18:11:20< Turuk> I wasn't sure what the state of master was at the moment in regards to 1.13.x
20150915 18:11:42< Turuk> I also wanted to make it available for those who didn't want to compile, but I can happily do both
20150915 18:15:54< gfgtdf> zookeeper: do or unit. an opinion onf teh lua units.advancement or unit.advancements ?
20150915 18:18:41< zookeeper> my opinion is to stick with whatever convention similar other things use... which i do not recall
20150915 18:25:08< celticminstrel> zookeeper: Do you have time to comment on my things now?
20150915 18:25:44< celticminstrel> (PR488 and http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43047 )
20150915 18:25:45< zookeeper> celticminstrel, did you see my comments about the... first thing?
20150915 18:25:58< celticminstrel> Was it in here?
20150915 18:26:01< zookeeper> yes
20150915 18:26:06< zookeeper> a few days ago, you were offline
20150915 18:26:08< celticminstrel> I'll check a bit later.
20150915 18:31:55< zookeeper> WRT the looping tags, is the first post up-to-date enough that i can just comment based off of it?
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20150915 18:44:56< celticminstrel> zookeeper: It's more or less up-to-date on the loops themselves, I think. It doesn't mention [break_if] and [continue_if].
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20150915 18:46:24< celticminstrel> Hmm.
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20150915 18:49:15< celticminstrel> So [damage][filter_adjacent] is the same as [damage][filter_opponent][filter_adacent]?
20150915 18:49:20< celticminstrel> ^attacker, not opponent.
20150915 18:49:31< celticminstrel> Actually no, self.
20150915 18:49:42< celticminstrel> [damage][filter_self][filter_adjacent]
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20150915 18:51:28< celticminstrel> On the other hand, [filter_adjacent_location] is not redundant, I think.
20150915 18:53:41< celticminstrel> For the record, there's a fair amount of code involved in backstab already, spread out across a number of different locations (several functions take parameters just to specify whether backstab is currently possible).
20150915 18:55:03< celticminstrel> Is there anything that [filter_adjacent] already does that wouldn't also be possible with [filter_self][filter_adjacent]?
20150915 18:56:44< zookeeper> i don't think so... but not entirely sure
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20150915 18:58:09< celticminstrel> Oh, come to think of it, [filter_self][filter_location][filter_adjacent_location] would probably be the same as [filter_location]...
20150915 18:58:20< celticminstrel> Hmm...
20150915 18:58:20< zookeeper> probably not, considering how it was added before [filter_adjacent] was implemented as part of SUF
20150915 18:58:47< zookeeper> (^ still relating to the previous question)
20150915 18:59:13< celticminstrel> I figured.
20150915 19:00:00< celticminstrel> I actually quite like the idea of modifying unit.facing, but I'm not quite sure how difficult that would be...
20150915 19:01:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20150915 19:02:31< celticminstrel> I'm pretty sure my implementation does enable things that weren't previously possible, though.
20150915 19:04:11< celticminstrel> I made a "flank" ability which is similar to backstab but requires two enemies on either side of the space opposite the attacker.
20150915 19:04:39< celticminstrel> Can you think of a way in which that's already possible?
20150915 19:07:11< zookeeper> well, by using [or] to do all 6 possible directions, everything should already be possible
20150915 19:08:56< celticminstrel> I think that's not quite true, actually...
20150915 19:09:19< celticminstrel> Unless I'm missing something.
20150915 19:09:21< zookeeper> i did test that i could do backstab with it
20150915 19:10:17< celticminstrel> I can see testing every possible set of directions for each of the 6 possible cases, but how do you know which case to use? Like, how do you know the direction from the attacker to the opponent so that you can determine that the direction from the opponent to the extra is the same?
20150915 19:10:29< celticminstrel> I wouldn't mind seeing your backstab implementation.
20150915 19:10:44< zookeeper> https://gist.github.com/ln-zookeeper/d255ca96aabbf169b5f8
20150915 19:10:52< zookeeper> obviously it's not especially _pretty_...
20150915 19:11:08< celticminstrel> Hmm.
20150915 19:11:22< zookeeper> oh right
20150915 19:11:33< celticminstrel> It doesn't verify that the enemy matched by the outer [filter_adjacent] is actually the opponent and not some random other enemy.
20150915 19:11:37< zookeeper> i think you're onto something there, i guess my implementation activates it against any enemy
20150915 19:11:43< zookeeper> duh :>
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20150915 19:14:10< celticminstrel> I can't see a way to solve that without something new.
20150915 19:14:26< zookeeper> yeah me neither. can't even workaround it by using [filter_opponent] instead
20150915 19:17:09< zookeeper> what about my suggestion of just getting rid of relative_to and adding new values such as opponent for direction=?
20150915 19:17:32< celticminstrel> You mean for adjacent=?
20150915 19:19:00< zookeeper> err, yeah
20150915 19:19:57< celticminstrel> I did add new values for adjacent=, actually.
20150915 19:20:08< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: there again
20150915 19:20:13< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: and invalid character
20150915 19:20:25< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: before 'add'
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20150915 19:20:51< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Yeah, I think it must've inserted the "escape" character rather than clearing my message.
20150915 19:21:17< celticminstrel> zookeeper: But the way I added new values, it doesn't make sense to incorporate them into the general unit/location filter.
20150915 19:21:40< celticminstrel> Which I think would be why I added relative_to=.
20150915 19:21:49< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: about the filters: i thinkit would be nice if we had something similar to the lua_functon= filter but which takes both units as arguments (2 parameters to that lua function)
20150915 19:22:16< celticminstrel> "both units"? A filter only works on one unit.
20150915 19:22:38< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes that the problem
20150915 19:23:29< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: we coudl for exampel have a lua_filter= directly in the specialy tag (here: [damage]) whcih works slimiar to lua_filter but takes both units as arguments
20150915 19:23:40< celticminstrel> Hmmm... I think I have an idea.
20150915 19:24:14< zookeeper> celticminstrel, yeah i was just wondering whether they could be implemented so that they'd work in the weapon special context only
20150915 19:24:20< celticminstrel> Referencing a nonexistent WML variable always yields an empty string, no errors or anything, right?
20150915 19:24:57< zookeeper> i mean they wouldn't need to work in SUF in general, only in [filter_opponent/etc], which i presume have special code only for them instead of being dumb wrappers for SUF? maybe not
20150915 19:24:59< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: it gives in error in the cerr
20150915 19:25:16< zookeeper> does it?
20150915 19:25:30< zookeeper> it might, i don't actually recall
20150915 19:25:40< celticminstrel> zookeeper: [filter_opponent] etc do have some special code, but it's pretty much just a wrapper for SUF.
20150915 19:25:50< celticminstrel> With a few extra things (mainly [filter_weapon]).
20150915 19:26:18< zookeeper> mmkay
20150915 19:29:41< celticminstrel> Incidentally, the same is true of [filter_adjacent], both in a weapon special and in another unit filter.
20150915 19:31:25< celticminstrel> Anyway, the idea was to give unit filters (in the C++ API) an extra optional argument of a second unit. In [filter_adjacent] within an SUF, you could then use $other_unit to reference the unit from the containing unit filter.
20150915 19:31:44< celticminstrel> And then the four filters in weapon specials could also set the $other_unit variable.
20150915 19:32:23< celticminstrel> That alone might be enough to implement backstab... not quite sure.
20150915 19:34:57< zookeeper> maybe
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20150915 19:59:44< celticminstrel> So zookeeper, what about the looping tags?
20150915 20:08:52< zookeeper> i'd imagine i must have said all i can think of in the previous/original discussion on them
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20150915 20:26:55< celticminstrel> I probably addressed some of what you said in that discussion, but I don't remember everything or even when it was.
20150915 20:30:35< zookeeper> fair enough
20150915 20:30:47< zookeeper> the main thing is that they should definitely be nestable
20150915 20:32:08< celticminstrel> These are nestable even if you don't specify a custom loop variable, because the loop variable is scoped.
20150915 20:32:19< zookeeper> all of them? ah, great
20150915 20:32:32< celticminstrel> Do you have an opinion on the nested [do] tags?
20150915 20:32:47< celticminstrel> Most people seem to like them, for consistency with [while].
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20150915 20:35:29< zookeeper> i'm still not sure... they're nice for consistency and future-proofing, but obviously introduce an otherwise unnecessary wrapper
20150915 20:36:24< celticminstrel> Also, do you have an opinion on [break_if]/[continue_if]? The former exits any ActionWML "scope", including an [event] or [if] or [switch]; the latter only works in loops (though I could probably make it jump into the next [case] in a [switch] if that's a desirable behaviour). This means they can't be in any nested scope, though.
20150915 20:36:58< zookeeper> for [foreach] and [for] it doesn't seem like a big deal, but in [repeat] it seems very pointless... but it'd be weird to be inconsistent, so i guess i'd rather keep [do] in all
20150915 20:37:22< celticminstrel> Actually, despite what the forum post says, currently the [repeat] doesn't have [do], but I can add them easily.
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20150915 20:44:20< zookeeper> i'd be more inclined towards empty [break] and [continue] tags
20150915 20:45:36< celticminstrel> That requires a lot more work to figure out exactly what scope is being left.
20150915 20:45:40< zookeeper> so [break_if] would correctly affect only the current scope, but [continue] would not?
20150915 20:45:51< celticminstrel> Would you like me to try to do it anyway?
20150915 20:46:11< celticminstrel> [continue_if] would raise an error if not directly in a loop scope.
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20150915 20:46:32< zookeeper> how could it require any more work?
20150915 20:47:54< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: cant you just thro lua exceptions ?
20150915 20:47:57< celticminstrel> Because it has to unwind until it reaches the root scope (usually an [event]) or a scope that it can apply to (a loop).
20150915 20:48:10< celticminstrel> Lua does not have exceptions.
20150915 20:48:19< celticminstrel> I could use the protected call mechanism, probably.
20150915 20:48:58< zookeeper> i don't see what that has to do with it. [break_if] would break if the conditions inside it pass, [break] would break. no difference in scope handling.
20150915 20:49:01< iceiceice> celticminstrel: did you read the stuff in the src/ folder about "lua_jailbraek_exception" ?
20150915 20:49:09< celticminstrel> Not so, zookeeper.
20150915 20:49:28< celticminstrel> The difference between [break_if] and [break] is that the former can be right in the scope it applies to and still be useful, but a [break] tag is completely useless if you can't nest it in an [if].
20150915 20:49:56< zookeeper> oh, right, yes
20150915 20:50:01< celticminstrel> iceiceice: What?
20150915 20:50:30< iceiceice> if you are getting down into the bowells of the engine you should read about that at some point
20150915 20:51:05< celticminstrel> These loop tags are implemented entirely in Lua though, so I'm not sure if it's relevant there.
20150915 20:51:17< iceiceice> oh i see
20150915 20:52:05< iceiceice> celticminstrel: why do you want to implement this?
20150915 20:52:18< celticminstrel> The [break] tag?
20150915 20:52:20< iceiceice> yes
20150915 20:52:24< zookeeper> celticminstrel, wait, no. surely there's no reason for [break] to break from an [if] (or even from a [switch]), so it shouldn't matter if you have to wrap them in an [if]
20150915 20:52:57< celticminstrel> zookeeper: Yes, there's no reason for it to break from an [if], but the difficulty is in unwinding until you find the proper tag to break from.
20150915 20:53:15< zookeeper> okay
20150915 20:53:50< iceiceice> celticminstrel: i think it would be nontrivial to implement it in wml in a way that doesn't incur overhead, the way that break; incurs little overhead in C or lua
20150915 20:54:11< celticminstrel> Well, I think it could be done using pcall() and error(), probably.
20150915 20:54:19< iceiceice> yeah but pcall incurs some error also
20150915 20:54:31< celticminstrel> However, there's another problem with doing it that way.
20150915 20:54:32< iceiceice> *some overhead also
20150915 20:54:38< celticminstrel> pcall() unconditionally traps all errors.
20150915 20:54:42< iceiceice> yes
20150915 20:55:10< iceiceice> that means it can interfere with wesnoths exception handling.
20150915 20:55:12< celticminstrel> And I don't know how to check the error and "rethrow" it so that it continues to propagate up with the correct stack trace and everything.
20150915 20:55:32< iceiceice> because of the whole "jailbreak exception" thing
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20150915 20:55:40< celticminstrel> I don't think it's because of that, exactly.
20150915 20:55:47< iceiceice> well but that is a separate issue
20150915 20:56:18< celticminstrel> The error could easily be reraised by just calling error() again. The issue is retaining the original stack trace.
20150915 20:56:37< iceiceice> you could call debug.backtrace i think
20150915 20:56:51< zookeeper> ok, so, what did you mean by [break_if] and [continue_if] not being able to be in nested scopes?
20150915 20:56:56< celticminstrel> Maybe, but I don't recall error() having a means to specify a custom backtrace.
20150915 20:57:26< celticminstrel> zookeeper: If you have [while][do][if][then][break_if], then that does not break from your loop (though it does terminate the [if][then] early).
20150915 20:58:28< celticminstrel> It works only if it's directly under [while][do].
20150915 20:59:12< zookeeper> right
20150915 21:00:22< zookeeper> it's somewhat unintuitive and kinda weird, i think? not sure if it'd be better to just not have them
20150915 21:02:23< celticminstrel> There seem to be a number of people who want some sort of [break].
20150915 21:03:04< celticminstrel> Maybe I could figure out a way to unwind without needing to use pcall()/error().
20150915 21:04:31< celticminstrel> It might mean modifying [if] and [switch] to handle both [break] and [continue].
20150915 21:05:00< zookeeper> yeah it'd be great to have a [break] you can use from an [if] etc... i mean, usually you'd [break] from inside an [if] anyway. with [break_if] you'd have to somehow avoid that, and it'd get pretty weird quickly
20150915 21:05:34< celticminstrel> Well, that's why I went with [break_if] at all, because it's logically equivalent to [if]whatever[then][break].
20150915 21:06:44< zookeeper> yeah. but then you'd have first your [if] to do whatever you want to do before breaking, then set a flag variable, and then [break_if] with a test for that flag. or duplicate the conditions, which might not be possible in every situation
20150915 21:07:12< celticminstrel> I don't quite see why you would have to do that.
20150915 21:07:30< zookeeper> you wouldn't, as long as you didn't want to actually _do_ anything before breaking
20150915 21:07:38< celticminstrel> Ah, hmm.
20150915 21:07:45< zookeeper> in that case you could just write a [break_if] with whatever conditions you want and it'd be all good
20150915 21:07:59< zookeeper> but very commonly you'd want to do something first, like set some variables or whatever
20150915 21:08:07< celticminstrel> I see your point.
20150915 21:08:56< zookeeper> if special handling for [break] and [continue] in [then]/[else]/[case] is easy to do, then maybe that's a good option
20150915 21:09:30< zookeeper> although i don't know if that'd cover everything
20150915 21:09:45< celticminstrel> What I'm thinking of is making WML tags that contain ActionWML return a value specifying whether to break, continue, or do nothing special.
20150915 21:10:20< zookeeper> [command]? [object] [then]? might be quite a few special cases you'd have to account for
20150915 21:10:22< celticminstrel> Lua functions probably return nil implicitly if there's no explicit return, right?
20150915 21:10:28< celticminstrel> Might be, yeah...
20150915 21:10:28 * zookeeper wouldn't know
20150915 21:10:40< celticminstrel> [object] in particular could be a problem...
20150915 21:10:49< celticminstrel> Because I think that one's implemented in C++, not in Lua.
20150915 21:11:26< zookeeper> anyway... aside from this, i think i only had one other question. if you can't remove an element in [foreach], can you still do it if you use [for] instead?
20150915 21:11:38< celticminstrel> Yes.
20150915 21:11:45< zookeeper> well, that's good
20150915 21:12:55< celticminstrel> With all the normal caveats (eg modifying the loop's index variable so you don't skip an element or process one twice).
20150915 21:13:16< zookeeper> what happens if you try to remove an element in [foreach]?
20150915 21:13:27< celticminstrel> Error message.
20150915 21:13:38< zookeeper> okay
20150915 21:13:41< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: it is possibel to implement [object] completeley in lua
20150915 21:13:44< gfgtdf> possible
20150915 21:13:44< celticminstrel> Unless you also add one.
20150915 21:13:59< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Hmm, I suppose I could try porting it to Lua, then.
20150915 21:14:19< celticminstrel> I actually think it should be renamed, mind you.
20150915 21:14:43< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: well actually not anyore since vultraz added the noadd options, but if you add that optiona also to wesnoth.add_modification then its sure possible
20150915 21:14:51< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: why do sou want to rename tags?
20150915 21:15:04< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i think taht will only casue incompabilites in the wml
20150915 21:15:36< celticminstrel> Because the ActionWML [object] is different from [modifications][object].
20150915 21:15:44< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: so?
20150915 21:15:58< celticminstrel> So, it can be confusing?
20150915 21:16:20< zookeeper> to who? :x
20150915 21:16:51< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: didint you just change advance to advamcenent for a fery similar reason?
20150915 21:16:57< zookeeper> if you're doing direct variable accessing of unit.modifications.object, you're 99% certain to not be confused by it :P
20150915 21:17:15< celticminstrel> zookeeper: [unit][modifications][object]. :P
20150915 21:17:29< celticminstrel> No direct variable accessing required.
20150915 21:17:46< zookeeper> ok, sure
20150915 21:18:01< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i dont think any of those needs variables ?
20150915 21:18:07< celticminstrel> Or with [modify_unit] as well.
20150915 21:18:11< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Huh?
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20150915 21:18:37< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: what do you mean by drect variable access?
20150915 21:19:05< celticminstrel> It was zookeeper who said it, but I'm guessing he meant stuff like removing a modification with direct access.
20150915 21:19:21< zookeeper> but... i really don't see how that'd be confusing. it seems so much more likely that you'd just introduce more confusion because you'd need to continue supporting both and the poor newbie can't tell why there's two ways of doing what looks like the same thing
20150915 21:19:40< celticminstrel> Well, I suppose.
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20150915 21:20:51< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i think i once tried to implement [object9 in lua mostlikley i stil have that codse somewhere
20150915 21:20:59< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Okay.
20150915 21:21:13< celticminstrel> That might be useful to see.
20150915 21:21:30< celticminstrel> I forgot which source file the WML actions are in...
20150915 21:22:17< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: here: http://pastebin.com/pym23Xa2
20150915 21:23:16< celticminstrel> Whoa.
20150915 21:23:25< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: like i said before it doesnt support no_write= yet
20150915 21:23:47< celticminstrel> It's pretty complicated.
20150915 21:24:01< celticminstrel> Where are the C++ WML actions, do you know?
20150915 21:24:20< gfgtdf> in game_svents/ folder
20150915 21:24:35< celticminstrel> Ah, right, thanks.
20150915 21:25:34< celticminstrel> If ActionWML [object] were renamed, we could retain backwards compatibility very easily, but we wouldn't need to document them separately.
20150915 21:26:03< celticminstrel> The C++ version looks a lot simpler.
20150915 21:26:48< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: well yes becasue it uses some function that are not available to lua specially for teh messagebox
20150915 21:27:43< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: actualyl from looking at the code i think the c++ version is much more code
20150915 21:28:31< celticminstrel> 73 lines of code for C++, 149 for Lua. Unless the C++ one also has some subroutines that I missed.
20150915 21:30:02< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: well i count ~30 lines on teh object function, serialize is really a general purpose function, an most of teh rest is just the gui2 message 
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20150915 22:01:02< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Okay, fair enough, but it still needs that extra serialization stuff... why does it need that, anyway?
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20150915 22:12:55< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: you can ofc also store it differently for example in wml variables
20150915 22:13:07< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: but somehow you mist remember which its itd are already used
20150915 22:14:02< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: for me using a seirlize function like that is the easiert way to make a variable persistent, i also do that often in my addons
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 16 00:00:36 2015