--- Log opened Wed Oct 28 00:00:11 2015
20151028 00:00:14< mattsc> Got to run now then.  I’ll be back … sometime tonight, not exactly sure when.
20151028 00:00:52< mattsc> Bye for now.
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20151028 00:03:49< neverEnough> about friends: when someone joins a message notifiies it, when someone leaves it doesn't. This works this way by purpose?
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20151028 00:07:25< neverEnough> if leave gets tracked i could also remove nicks from "whisperers" list (as for commit 4346856)
20151028 00:07:42< celticminstrel> I have no idea.
20151028 00:08:09< neverEnough> there was a note from shadowm, maybe he gets up in a few :p
20151028 00:09:54< shadowm> A note?
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20151028 00:10:22< neverEnough> hm y somewhere.. i think on easycoding
20151028 00:10:27< neverEnough> sec i look
20151028 00:11:13< neverEnough> y
20151028 00:11:20< neverEnough> "Even better, could also remember names of anyone who whispered you in the last hour. (PR #529 adds this, albeit without a time limit which probably isn't really necessary anyway.) "
20151028 00:11:59< celticminstrel> Easier than a time limit would be to just remember, for example, the last 10 whisperers.
20151028 00:12:04< celticminstrel> Or 100.
20151028 00:12:11< neverEnough> i was surprised that coding pages was kept up to date
20151028 00:12:29< celticminstrel> Although a limit isn't strictly necessary, having one does mean it won't grow without bound.
20151028 00:12:39< celticminstrel> Which I think is a good thing.
20151028 00:12:41< neverEnough> well and what about removing nicks when they leave ?
20151028 00:12:44< shadowm> Personally I don't think it's that important to limit the number of whisperers for tab completiopn.
20151028 00:12:58< celticminstrel> No, I wouldn't say it's that important.
20151028 00:13:06< shadowm> You will never get enough people messaging you for it to actually cause a problem.
20151028 00:13:14< celticminstrel> In theory it could probably be used for some sort of attack or something.
20151028 00:13:24< shadowm> We'd be talking something above 2^31 unique nicks.
20151028 00:13:49< celticminstrel> Join as "a", whisper someone, leave. Join as "b", whisper same person, leave. etc etc
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20151028 00:14:21< shadowm> (i.e. above 2,147,483,648 unique nicks)
20151028 00:14:36< celticminstrel> I don't know how long it would take to get to 2 million nicks.
20151028 00:14:38< neverEnough> kinda flooding ur server hosting :P
20151028 00:14:43< celticminstrel> Probably awhile though.
20151028 00:15:02< celticminstrel> Also depends how long the handshake and stuff takes.
20151028 00:15:15< shadowm> The point is that it won't happen in practice, at least not without the server hitting its own limits first.
20151028 00:15:26 * celticminstrel shrugs.
20151028 00:15:39< shadowm> If anything really needs hardening it's the server.
20151028 00:15:50< neverEnough> my first concern was about #1 adding a part notification from friends, the same way as joins do. #2 this may get things easier to solve the minor whisperer issue
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20151028 00:16:26< celticminstrel> Disconnect notification isn't as useful as connect notification.
20151028 00:16:34< neverEnough> ah k
20151028 00:16:49< celticminstrel> I'm not saying you should not do it, mind you.
20151028 00:16:57< shadowm> I think it's a reasonable option to have.
20151028 00:17:22< celticminstrel> I think it's reasonable, but not as useful as connect notification.
20151028 00:17:23< shadowm> "oh xyz joined the server, let me wrap up this game quickly-- oh they left now, never mind."
20151028 00:17:36< neverEnough> ^^
20151028 00:17:58< neverEnough> sure it's less important
20151028 00:18:06< celticminstrel> I don't actually know, can you disable specific types of notifications right now?
20151028 00:18:17< shadowm> Yes.
20151028 00:18:18< neverEnough> this one not, afaik
20151028 00:18:23< neverEnough> oh
20151028 00:18:41< neverEnough> didn't check
20151028 00:18:57< shadowm> I guess you can only choose to disable sounds or desktop notifications right now, b.
20151028 00:19:06< shadowm> Preferences → Multiplayer → Alerts
20151028 00:19:22< celticminstrel> So not specific events.
20151028 00:19:45< shadowm> Yes, for specific events.
20151028 00:20:00< neverEnough> usually commercial games works the same way: UI got settings, networking not
20151028 00:20:09< celticminstrel> Oh.
20151028 00:20:20< shadowm> I'm saying you don't seem to have an option to disable or enable in-game text notifications for things that have/don't have them already.
20151028 00:21:09< shadowm> In particular, there isn't a friend connected/disconnected option.
20151028 00:21:37< neverEnough> i'm not sure its kind of required setting for users
20151028 00:21:51< shadowm> And if we were to extend that dialog we certainly don't want to offer people the chance to disable some options like server messages.
20151028 00:22:10< neverEnough> heh exactly
20151028 00:22:37< neverEnough> on a server u have to follow the imposed rules
20151028 00:22:50< neverEnough> UI got settings because it's about ur home/room
20151028 00:23:13< celticminstrel> I think it's good to allow connect/disconnect events to be disabled though. More so for disconnect.
20151028 00:23:32< neverEnough> k
20151028 00:23:58< neverEnough> i'll peek that code next time i work on it
20151028 00:24:52< neverEnough> for untracked changes should create a gna bug on purpose or not required?
20151028 00:25:42< neverEnough> i mean.. if something like part msg / notification setting gets coded and is not listed in any whishlist
20151028 00:30:34< shadowm> neverEnough: Posted some comments on the code from #542: https://github.com/niegenug/wesnoth/commit/7a492c96fffe95131bed3474e1b424d8e1a500cd#commitcomment-14027516
20151028 00:31:05< shadowm> Forgot to mention that with iterators you should always use prefix increment or decrement unless you really need the postfix operator semantics.
20151028 00:31:48< neverEnough> oh ok
20151028 00:31:52< celticminstrel> I generally use postfix, but despite that I can't disagree with you.
20151028 00:32:12< celticminstrel> Postfix does after all imply an extra, useless copy.
20151028 00:32:29< celticminstrel> (Unless you need the postfix semantics, then it's an extra not-useless copy.)
20151028 00:33:20< neverEnough> yay again on git troubles
20151028 00:33:34< celticminstrel> Maybe I can help with that.
20151028 00:37:14< neverEnough> i saved our last chat and was able to fix
20151028 00:37:31< neverEnough> --amend is going my best friend
20151028 00:37:45< neverEnough> shadowm, it should be fixed now (?)
20151028 00:38:06< celticminstrel> --amend means "change the last commit".
20151028 00:39:49< neverEnough> yes, i fixed the prefix increment
20151028 00:40:16< neverEnough> that's good to practice with git
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20151028 00:52:57< neverEnough> ok
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20151028 01:38:04< shadowm> Uh.
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20151028 01:44:55< vultraz> shadowm: I should let the tests run again, even if they previously run and were now restarting bc of a changelog conflict fix?
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20151028 01:52:29< vultraz> shadowm: I am aware no one really maintains the WB code, so I simply merged it because I figured better a fix than letting it sit
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20151028 02:34:05< shadowm> vultraz: Yeah, even though I had said I'd take a look at it before...
20151028 02:34:42< vultraz> oh, you did?
20151028 02:35:11< vultraz> I seem to vaguely remember this..... 
20151028 02:35:39< shadowm> 20151025 16:59:50< shadowm> gfgtdf: I don't think you have any experience with the whiteboard code, do you? Just to decide whether I should handle PRs #524 and #523 in a fallback fashion.
20151028 02:35:53< shadowm> (The answer was no.)
20151028 02:36:08< shadowm> 20151025 17:00:17< vultraz> dammit
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20151028 02:36:20< vultraz> Ah, yes
20151028 02:36:23< vultraz> I remember now
20151028 02:36:27< shadowm> 20151025 17:00:26< shadowm> #523 and #496 I mean.
20151028 02:39:03< vultraz> I haven't merged 496
20151028 02:39:11< vultraz> Also, have you given wedge push access
20151028 02:39:19< shadowm> vultraz.
20151028 02:44:27< shadowm> Well, since vultraz pretty much forced me to do a full disclosure of the subject, I'll just say it depends on the resolution of PR #541 (which you merged, I know, but really requires more work as we discussed earlier) and #497 (which is really up to the author to decide whether I should merge it as-is or let him work on it further).
20151028 02:44:55< shadowm> I kind of wanted that to be a surprise but whatever.
20151028 02:45:18< shadowm> (Ideally #541 shouldn't have been merged as-is.)
20151028 02:45:43< shadowm> (Ugh, I mean the parent of the third commit of #541.)
20151028 02:45:59< shadowm> (#537.)
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20151028 02:50:00< shadowm> Also, vultraz, don't forget to update any cited bug reports.
20151028 02:50:19< shadowm> For example,  PR #524 was merged, but https://gna.org/bugs/?20900 is still Status: None.
20151028 02:50:39< shadowm> And Assigned To: None instead of the person who is handling the PR.
20151028 02:53:59< shadowm> Ditto for #20299.
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20151028 02:54:51< vultraz> handling as in who merged it?
20151028 02:55:04< shadowm> Obviously.
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20151028 04:23:36< aquileia> loonycyborg: I just noticed bug #23701 isn't marked as fixed yet - didn't you change your core.autocrlf setting so that these files have Windows line endings on your clone now?
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20151028 07:11:35< Aginor> 'lo
20151028 07:11:41< Aginor> shadowm: ping?
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20151028 08:17:42< loonycyborg> aquileia: was planning to do it on next release
20151028 08:18:00< loonycyborg> at the same time as making it
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20151028 08:56:21< shadowm> Aginor: Hi, I'm about to leave but I always read the logs if I'm highlighted.
20151028 08:58:58< Aginor> shadowm: I wanted to ask you if you are familiar with which piece of code generates some graphics in the "faction select" dialog when joining a multiplayer game
20151028 08:59:17< shadowm> Which graphics?
20151028 08:59:47< Aginor> I am recompiling at the moment to get some clarity on that, it's completely corrupted in sdl2
20151028 09:00:46< shadowm> The faction select dialog only displays team-colored unit sprites I believe.
20151028 09:01:36< shadowm> Those would come from src/image_modifications.?pp, which serves as a backend for the image path functions aspect of the general image cache mechanism (src/image.?pp).
20151028 09:02:01< Aginor> hmm, that dialog doens't contain any graphics under sdl1
20151028 09:02:15< Aginor> just labels and buttons, and the buttons are what's corrupted in sdl2
20151028 09:02:37< Aginor> there's definitively a memory issue somewhere, but finding it has been eluding me for a while now
20151028 09:02:49< shadowm> Uh, unit sprites are graphics.
20151028 09:03:47< Aginor> yeah, I'm not seeing any there unless I do more things
20151028 09:03:59< Aginor> anyway, I think you've given me the answer I was looking for
20151028 09:04:01< Aginor> thank you
20151028 09:04:16< Aginor> I'll be doing some more testing and comparison
20151028 09:04:17< shadowm> Aginor: This is what the dialog is supposed to look like: http://i.imgur.com/nd0X62L.png
20151028 09:04:34< Aginor> yes, that's what I'm seeing in sdl1
20151028 09:04:37< shadowm> Now that you said that it's the buttons that break with SDL 2, then my answer is pretty much useless.
20151028 09:04:44< Aginor> but no coloured sprites?
20151028 09:04:55< Aginor> it's the entire panel I think
20151028 09:04:56< shadowm> What era and faction do you have selected?
20151028 09:05:19< shadowm> Or, just era, really.
20151028 09:05:37< Aginor> default era
20151028 09:05:56< shadowm> If you aren't seeing the list of factions even with SDL 1.2 then there's something seriously wrong with your branch. :p
20151028 09:06:04< shadowm> And/or if it's there but without sprites.
20151028 09:06:18< Aginor> it's looking like your screenshot
20151028 09:06:30< Aginor> so I think the branch is right
20151028 09:06:38< shadowm> Then why this? 06:04:44 <Aginor> but no coloured sprites?
20151028 09:06:52< Aginor> background colour
20151028 09:07:03< Aginor> 22:00 < shadowm> The faction select dialog only displays team-colored unit  sprites I believe.
20151028 09:07:21< shadowm> The sprites have magenta bits in them, for example, the elf captain's banner.
20151028 09:07:35< shadowm> Those are recolored at runtime by the image path function mechanism.
20151028 09:07:36< Aginor> right
20151028 09:07:44< shadowm> That's what I meant by team color.
20151028 09:08:06< Aginor> I have obviously never paid much attention to that
20151028 09:08:29< Aginor> then it's looking like expected
20151028 09:08:31< Aginor> thanks :)
20151028 09:08:50< shadowm> Anyway, if the issue is the dialog itself, firstly you want to look at the implementation of the respective GUI1 widgets. The listbox is in src/widgets/menu.?pp, the buttons in src/widgets/button.?pp, and the base widget class in src/widgets/widget.?pp.
20151028 09:09:26< shadowm> However, there is still a few other things that make up a GUI1 dialog like this scattered around in src/show_dialog.?pp and src/construct_dialog.?pp.
20151028 09:10:53< shadowm> IIRC src/show_dialog.?pp contains the lower level bits and src/construct_dialog.?pp the "stock dialog" bits that allow building generic GUI1 dialogs with a standard layout. (This sounds more impressive than it actually is, in reality the code is a bit crap and extremely dumb.)
20151028 09:11:59< Aginor> there certainly is something silly going on there
20151028 09:13:09< shadowm> As far as I remember it doesn't do anything too fancy with SDL surfaces, just the standard stuff everything else (incuding GUI2) does.
20151028 09:13:48< Aginor> I'm not sure that it's got anything to do with sdl2
20151028 09:14:25< Aginor> I think it might be something that's allocated on the stack and might be getting overwritten while something else retains a pointer to it
20151028 09:14:33< Aginor> but that's pure speculation at this point
20151028 09:15:30< shadowm> I'd be slightly surprised if it were the case and we managed to get away with it for over 6 years.
20151028 09:16:54< Aginor> I will keep on digging
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20151028 09:17:19< irker185> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd e961b087e77a / / (9 files in 3 dirs): Remove dependency of wesnothd on SDL_net updating scons accordingly http://git.io/vWHPr
20151028 09:17:25< shadowm> Less surprising would be if we have been doing something questionable and unsupported with SDL that only really worked by chance.
20151028 09:17:58< shadowm> Anyway, later.
20151028 09:18:08< Aginor> have a good day/night/evening
20151028 09:18:19< Aginor> morning.
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20151028 09:54:55< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7730 (asio_wesnothd - e961b08 : loonycyborg): The build failed.
20151028 09:54:55< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/87848591
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20151028 10:15:47 * Rhonda peeks at http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/2/0/code_of_conduct.txt
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20151028 10:17:33< Aginor> that looks sensible
20151028 10:28:16< zookeeper> but at least for wesnoth that would seem completely redundant since we don't need a code of conduct to get rid of troublemakers.
20151028 10:28:35< zookeeper> (just in case anyone would suggest wesnoth adopting one)
20151028 10:29:22< Rhonda> zookeeper, it's not even really about getting rid of troublemakers.  It's also about making it clear for new people in the first place.
20151028 10:30:18< Rhonda> I am well aware that our community is very much functional even without an explicit statement.  I just wonder if it wouldn't still make sense to state that.
20151028 10:36:28< zookeeper> considering there's not really anything broken in need of fixing, i'd be wary of something like that considering how much it can invite trolling and nitpicking or cause needless strife.
20151028 10:37:33< zookeeper> which, i think is fair to say, isn't exactly uncommon when code of conducts are formalized?
20151028 10:37:41< zookeeper> i dunno
20151028 10:38:48< Rhonda> You mean the kind of trolling objecting to put one?  ;)
20151028 10:41:44< zookeeper> nah, the kind intended to annoy while circumventing the rules or being seemingly harmless or ambiguous enough to cause disagreement on whether it's against the rules or not
20151028 10:46:35< Rhonda> Why would having a CoC hinder getting rid of troublemakers suddenly when it isn't before the CoC?  I can't follow.
20151028 10:47:28< Rhonda> It doesn't mean that a CoC like that is the only thing that can get rid of troublemakers, and if you say there is no need for a CoC to get rid of troublemakers having a CoC shouldn't hinder getting rid of them neither.  That doesn't make sense. :)
20151028 10:49:22< zookeeper> because if we have a CoC, then that would become the go-to authority for the reasons for getting rid of someone. technically, it wouldn't need to mean we couldn't ban someone just because they're being a bit of an ass, but in practise if we have formal rules then that's what people will assume to be what we make decisions by.
20151028 10:50:05< zookeeper> it's hard to put up rules and then try to have everyone pretend that they're just an addition to whatever ad hoc rules we've had before
20151028 10:50:25< Rhonda> Well, no, it wouldn't.  It would be part of.  And people misbehaving are people misbehaving.  Saying that a CoC is "the go-to authority" is not understanding what a CoC is, frankly spoken.
20151028 10:51:25< Rhonda> A CoC is about expectations on how people should interact with each other, not about the negative consequences.  That's looking at it from the wrong angle somehow.
20151028 10:51:54< zookeeper> well the CoC you linked to is IMO very much phrased from the angle of rules and negative consequences?
20151028 10:54:02< zookeeper> like, project maintainers would commit to the responsibility to police contributions not aligned to the CoC, and if they don't then they may be removed. that sounds like a very "negative consequences" -style approach to me
20151028 10:54:07< Rhonda> It still doesn't state that those are the only reasons one could or should get feedback for their behavior.
20151028 10:58:29< zookeeper> if i had to author a CoC, i'd try to avoid any usual trigger words for arguments about political correctness as well as consequences for misbehavior, and basically keep it as close to "be nice and professional towards everyone". but not only to avoid meta-problems with the rules, but also because it's just more KISS that way.
20151028 10:58:43< zookeeper> +as possible
20151028 10:58:54< vultraz> You know what this needs?
20151028 10:59:11< vultraz> "The project members reserve the right to boot anyone for any reason."
20151028 10:59:22< vultraz> "If you don't like this, go away"
20151028 10:59:50< zookeeper> well, phrased a bit softer, but yes
20151028 11:03:50< vultraz> obv
20151028 11:14:19< zookeeper> some kind of amicable mix of "this is not a democracy", "but we're reasonable people" and "we're nice and professional to everyone and thus have no need for formal rules, so just be nice and professional to everyone"
20151028 11:15:33< zookeeper> (that said, i don't know whether we have formal rules somewhere outside the multiplayer/forum CoC's... i'm guessing not)
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20151028 12:07:22< Rhonda> vultraz: Well, "anyone for any reason" does sound pretty aggressive and kinda arbitrary, which is pretty bad and not welcoming at all
20151028 12:08:44< vultraz> yes, i was being ironic 
20151028 12:08:57 * Rhonda still loves how the CoC in Debian turned out in the end: http://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct (and: http://www.debian.org/intro/diversity )
20151028 12:09:04< vultraz> it would obviously be more nicely worded
20151028 12:09:20< Rhonda> I guess it can't be any shorter than the diversity statement.  :)
20151028 12:10:30< Rhonda> Guess you meant it in the spirit of that diversity statement.  I just say that I personally would be very suspicious of a project that claims to boot anyone for any reason.
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20151028 12:20:07< Rhonda> Oh, there is already a coc?  What are we discussing then anyway.  :)
20151028 12:20:32< Rhonda> Then the fear of extending it to the development area instead of only the "userbase" seems unfounded on that grounds.
20151028 12:22:40< Rhonda> (guess to some degree this is implicit anyway, because they do come on irc too, or might dig in the code)
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20151028 15:04:11< Leendert> I need some advise...
20151028 15:04:20< vultraz> what do you need?
20151028 15:04:54< Leendert> I have made a map in wesnoth map editor but cannot use unit tool.
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20151028 15:05:33< vultraz> Leendert: 1.13 or 1.12?
20151028 15:05:38< Leendert> It cannot be clicked i mean.
20151028 15:06:00< Leendert> 1.12.4
20151028 15:06:07< vultraz> you need to add a side first
20151028 15:06:13< vultraz> go to Sides -> add side
20151028 15:06:40< Leendert> Where can i find that?
20151028 15:07:49< Leendert> In map editor?
20151028 15:08:44< Leendert> Still here?
20151028 15:08:55< vultraz> Leendert: you need to edit the map as a scenario
20151028 15:09:04< vultraz> File -> New Scenario
20151028 15:09:11< vultraz> and copy your map over
20151028 15:09:18< vultraz> and then click Side (near the top)
20151028 15:09:21< vultraz> Add Side
20151028 15:09:57< Leendert> mCopy map from map to scenario map you mean?
20151028 15:10:08< vultraz> yes
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20151028 15:11:22< Leendert> Thanks, i go try!
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20151028 15:25:55< Leendert> Help me please!
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20151028 15:30:45< Leendert> Anybode that can help me with map editor please?
20151028 15:33:00< Leendert> Hello?
20151028 15:33:19< Leendert> vultraz please?
20151028 15:33:58< Soliton> it'd help if you could state your issue.
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20151028 15:49:28< Elvish_Hunter> Hi...
20151028 15:49:48< Elvish_Hunter> Sorry, but I was quite busy these days.
20151028 15:50:13< Elvish_Hunter> And it's not easy to come up with a decent wmllint patch for the team_id thing :/
20151028 15:51:51< Elvish_Hunter> Speaking of which, vultraz: AFAIK, we have two [label] and [item] tags in our code.
20151028 15:52:21< Elvish_Hunter> One [label] and one [item] is coded in Lua, and is the one called when these tags are used inside [event].
20151028 15:53:16< Elvish_Hunter> The other [label] and [item] are coded in C++, and are called when used outside of [event] - that means, directly inside [scenario].
20151028 15:53:35 * vultraz :|
20151028 15:53:49< Elvish_Hunter> The C++ versions don't use a SUF, but only support the team_name key.
20151028 15:53:57< celticminstrel> Hmm..
20151028 15:54:05< vultraz> ah, yes
20151028 15:54:12< Elvish_Hunter> Uh, not SUF. SSF.
20151028 15:54:24< vultraz> I recall now...the wiki mentions toplevel only supports ... something
20151028 15:54:26< celticminstrel> The C++ ones actually are implemented as tags?
20151028 15:54:59< Elvish_Hunter> For what I remember, yes.
20151028 15:55:17< Elvish_Hunter> I should do some grep on our source code to be sure...
20151028 15:55:25< celticminstrel> And how are they called?
20151028 15:56:21< celticminstrel> If they're implemented as tags, and called as tags... then the C++ code would never be used at all, probably. Unless the Lua version calls the C++ version.
20151028 15:56:43< celticminstrel> Oh, when I say "as tags" I meant as ActionWML, sorry if that was confusing.
20151028 15:57:16< Elvish_Hunter> Unless something has changed, of course.
20151028 16:04:56< Elvish_Hunter> OK, I checked again, and now I can correct myself...
20151028 16:05:30< Elvish_Hunter> It was true some time ago, but since the wesnoth.label() Lua functions was added the issue is a bit different.
20151028 16:06:49< Elvish_Hunter> That function - as well as the wesnoth.add_tile_overlay() - require a WML table as last argument, and that table accepts a team_name= key, but not a full SSF.
20151028 16:08:53< gfgtdf> the [scenario] level label and item tags are mostly used to store map levels when savign and realoding a game, as a wml deveoper you should need to know about them
20151028 16:09:15< gfgtdf> map labls
20151028 16:09:46< celticminstrel> You mean shouldn't?
20151028 16:10:00< celticminstrel> I dunno if I agree with that.
20151028 16:10:04< gfgtdf> yes i meant shouldn't
20151028 16:10:24< celticminstrel> I think it makes a lot more sense to specify such things at the scenario level rather than in an event.
20151028 16:10:28< Elvish_Hunter> gfgtdf: that's not the problem. The problem is the change team_name -> team_id, and the possibly inconsistent API.
20151028 16:10:38< celticminstrel> Oh.
20151028 16:12:16< Elvish_Hunter> Imagine how UMC authors will be confused if one tag accepts team_id and the other doesn't...
20151028 16:13:30< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: hmm but why shoudl wml auhjor use these [scenario] level tags?
20151028 16:14:14< Elvish_Hunter> Because the wiki says that they're supported.
20151028 16:14:18< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: also i wonder  whether team_id is really the best string, specially since team_id= is a comma seperated list (in [side] i mean).
20151028 16:15:38< Elvish_Hunter> Also, why wesnoth.label isn't documented at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Display ?
20151028 16:16:24< gfgtdf> vultraz: was there a special reason for adding [item] in [scenario] to the wiki ?
20151028 16:16:39< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: becasue it migth change
20151028 16:17:11< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: so we wont want people to use it yet so we don'T add it to the wiki yet, specially since it doesnt add new functionailiy.
20151028 16:18:37< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: there are some lua functions in 1.13 of this type afaik.
20151028 16:25:12< Elvish_Hunter> Undocumented functions are a problem. Suppose for a moment that a UMC author knows Lua but not C++.
20151028 16:26:23< Elvish_Hunter> If he decides to try reading the wml-tags.lua file to improve his Lua knowledge, he'll be confused for sure.
20151028 16:29:55< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: i dont think this is a problem, but what we couldn maybe do is to move these functions to a wesnoth_internal table or soemthing
20151028 16:30:50< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: afaik iceiceice moves these function from action_wml.cpp lua teh lua kernel to remove uses of resources:: since iceiceice doesn't work on tis anymmore i wonder whether we shodul revert tghis movement
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20151028 16:31:44< celticminstrel> I don't think I like that idea.
20151028 16:31:56< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: which idea ?
20151028 16:32:11< celticminstrel> wesnoth_internal
20151028 16:33:04< iceiceice> gfgtdf: yeah i now think that, even though getting rid of the resources would be great and would allow some nice new features,
20151028 16:33:20< iceiceice> its easier to rewrite the whole thing from scratch than to do that without breaking anyting
20151028 16:33:25< iceiceice> even with lots of unit tests
20151028 16:34:03< iceiceice> so, i'm not working on trying to move any of that stuff into the lua kernel anymore,
20151028 16:34:19< iceiceice> i think people should do, whatever is consistent with their development goals :)
20151028 16:34:23< iceiceice> and generally try not to break things :)
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20151028 17:11:38< vultraz> gfgtdf, Elvish_Hunter: FWIW I always specify initial [item] and [label] at toplevel
20151028 17:12:19< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm does it have advantages over  [item]/[label] in a prestart event?
20151028 17:13:14< vultraz> gfgtdf: IDK but I do it mostly for neatness to keep my events clean. It's perfectly reasonable to be expected to be able to set such things up at toplevel 
20151028 17:13:29< vultraz> you can do music and time_area, why not label and item?
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20151028 17:16:26< gfgtdf> vultraz: becasue maintining 2 tags ([scenario] level and actionwml) means more work in situations like this.
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20151028 17:19:47< vultraz> gfgtdf: I'm thinking maybe we should refactor the actionwml stuff so they're simply 'callable actions that modify the gamestate' so when toplevel is parsed it just calls each action in turn
20151028 17:22:17< vultraz> basically im proposing splitting wml actions from events
20151028 17:22:36< vultraz> so events become queued action callers
20151028 17:25:37< vultraz> so you'd have game init to set up the gameboard, and call all the actions ([side], [label], etc), and then execute the prestart event 
20151028 17:25:48< gfgtdf> vultraz: wml actions and event aren't connected currently, you can easily call action wml from lua even outside of an event
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20151028 17:26:41< gfgtdf> vultraz: so you want to make side side number variable ?
20151028 17:26:50< vultraz> ?
20151028 17:27:15< vultraz> what do you mean
20151028 17:27:16< gfgtdf> vultraz: you want a [side] actionwml that cretes a new side ?
20151028 17:27:43< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: It's not necessarily true that it needs more work to maintain two versions - it would be possible to have one version call the other.
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20151028 17:28:28< vultraz> gfgtdf: not really im proposing we get rid of the 'actionwml' concept altogether
20151028 17:28:34< vultraz> they just become actions
20151028 17:29:18< vultraz> and every action call is an event
20151028 17:29:55< celticminstrel> vultraz: That doesn't get rid of the ActionWML concept.
20151028 17:30:07< celticminstrel> You're just giving it a new name.
20151028 17:30:33< celticminstrel> (Among other things.)
20151028 17:30:51< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm but in this case we for example have toplevel tags that only support xy coordinates and actionwml tags that use filters. We cannot use have the actionwml form call the xy form easily becasue they wouldn't support filters, and we also can make the xy form call the filtern form becase filters migth not be available at that early time of construction.
20151028 17:31:11< celticminstrel> Why are filters not available?
20151028 17:32:03< vultraz> celticminstrel: ehhh perhaps you're right
20151028 17:32:21< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm for example some things are constructed in game_state's constructor idk if one of the things we are currently talking os among them.
20151028 17:32:25< vultraz> im trying to think of a new way to handle actions so this stuff doesn't happen
20151028 17:32:33< celticminstrel> Still, if that's a real issue, then you can arrange it so that both call the same common code to do the actual work - the ActionWML one evaluates the location filter and uses those locations, while the toplevel one uses the specified list of x,y coordinates.
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20151028 17:34:14< zookeeper> well can't you easily just make one top-level "action handler" which, at prestart time, finds tags of predetermined type (label, item, ...) and runs them as ActionWML? it's still special case code, but you don't actually have to have two separate implementations of the tags.
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20151028 17:34:49< celticminstrel> Something like that, yeah.
20151028 17:35:00< vultraz> OR why don't we just initialize the map and everything needed for filters BEFORE toplevel tags?
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20151028 17:35:49< gfgtdf> hmm im just trying to respond to http://gna.org/bugs/?22918 in the bugtracker but somehow i can't :s
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20151028 17:41:17< gfgtdf> zookeeper: the point is that the main usecase for these toplevel tags is still to make save the map labels and similar persistent when reloadiong a saved game. And we also dont wat to make teh saving code too complicated.
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20151028 17:42:56< gfgtdf> zookeeper: also we must make sure that the map labels and similar is still exactly the same when reloading the game which i harder to do if this is dont with actionwml tags, specially since it is for example possible to overwrite these tags with lua.
20151028 17:43:38< celticminstrel> That's true.
20151028 17:44:09< celticminstrel> Though maybe you could arrange it to ensure that the toplevel tags are executed before any blocks of Lua that might replace them.
20151028 17:44:10< gfgtdf> s/i harder to do if this is dont/is harder to do if this is done
20151028 17:44:42< celticminstrel> The Lua kernel is reset whenever you load a game or start a scenario, right?
20151028 17:45:30< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes it is
20151028 17:46:11< celticminstrel> So it's possible in principle to ensure that.
20151028 17:46:39< celticminstrel> Global Lua tags (and campaign/scenario level ones) might complicate things though.
20151028 17:57:08< Elvish_Hunter> Now I have to go. Bye!
20151028 17:57:13-!- Elvish_Hunter [~elvish_hu@wesnoth/developer/elvish-hunter] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Ciao!"]
20151028 18:06:16< zookeeper> gfgtdf, i thought top-level labels/items were stored in the snapshot the same way as event-created ones are?
20151028 18:06:32< gfgtdf> zookeeper: yes they are
20151028 18:06:51< zookeeper> well, then a change like the one i suggested shouldn't affect that at all, right?
20151028 18:10:50< gfgtdf> zookeeper: swell you suggested so change they way scenariolavel label/item tags are stored
20151028 18:11:10< zookeeper> no no, just the way they are handled
20151028 18:11:20< zookeeper> unless i'm missing something crucial here
20151028 18:12:24< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm rigth maybe i got consued form different suggestions, still my second point applies
20151028 18:16:19< zookeeper> about lua possibly overwriting the tags? well, yeah... if the scenario overwrites the tag in a prestart event then that wouldn't apply to the top-level item/label placement done before that, but... that's something the author would have to pay attention to anyway
20151028 18:16:50< zookeeper> i mean, if they overwrite the tag in an event, they already have to make sure it happens before any use of that tag, and in this case it'd be the same
20151028 18:19:05< zookeeper> not that i'm familiar with the details of loading and when lua stuff tends to happen and all that
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20151028 19:45:22< shadowm> Rhonda: There is the MP CoC, but nobody really enforces it anymore and the MP community is in a quite bad shape nowadays.
20151028 19:46:11< shadowm> It also isn't as thorough as a real community CoC should be.
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20151028 19:52:57< Rhonda> shadowm: Thanks for clearing that up.  If that's the case I think it's not such a bad idea as zookeeper let me feel for dropping the general idea then. :)
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20151028 20:06:40< irker029> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:1.12 a490c514d3eb / src/editor/editor_main.cpp: Resolve Bug #20900 http://git.io/vWF33
20151028 20:06:41< irker029> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 4a25f5cae97e / changelog: Update changelog for fix for bug #20900 http://git.io/vWF3s
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20151028 20:21:18< shadowm> Okay so I appear to be getting duplicate chat messages in a networked game on master. Anyone seen this before?
20151028 20:22:50-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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20151028 20:28:28< irker029> wesnoth: neverEnough wesnoth:master b549ac258c18 / changelog players_changelog src/play_controller.cpp: Ingame tab completion works with friendlist (bug #9742) http://git.io/vWFl4
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20151028 20:42:30< Leendert> Can anybody help me with map editor?
20151028 20:44:11< Leendert> Hello anybody!
20151028 20:44:14< shadowm> I'm on my way out, but what kind of help do you need?
20151028 20:44:46< Leendert> I created a scenario, its stored in defaulr scenario map but how can i make it playeble?
20151028 20:45:24< shadowm> A proper scenario with units and stuff, or just a plain map?
20151028 20:45:55< Leendert> 5 sides with 5 leaders all able to recruit.
20151028 20:46:58< shadowm> I believe editor scenarios don't include the required [scenario] (SP) or [multiplayer] (MP) tags needed for the game to read them if they are moved to the add-ons dir.
20151028 20:47:12< celticminstrel> ^
20151028 20:47:36< Leendert> I stored it in "scenarios" map "maps" map is empty.
20151028 20:47:40< shadowm> So ultimately you will need to get familiarized with WML in order to hand-edit the editor's output and make it work for distribution to other people.
20151028 20:48:00< celticminstrel> If it's in editor/scenarios, you should be able to select it at the MP scenario selection screen.
20151028 20:48:24< celticminstrel> Though, does it require some particular file extension?
20151028 20:48:24< Leendert> But it must be possible to make a fully working game with only map editor, am i right?
20151028 20:48:30< celticminstrel> No.
20151028 20:48:57< celticminstrel> There are several things you can do in scenarios that the map editor simply can't handle.
20151028 20:49:03< celticminstrel> The main one is events.
20151028 20:49:21< shadowm> Scenarios should be named *.cfg and maps *.map in general, even if the editor offers the option to use an arbitrary or no extension at all.
20151028 20:50:10 * shadowm has to go now.
20151028 20:50:10< Leendert> So mapeditor is useless for making a working game?
20151028 20:50:51< iceiceice> Leendert: no it is only an aide
20151028 20:50:55< celticminstrel> Not quite, but if you want to do anything complex, then what you need to do is make a map (not a scenario) in the map editor and then write WML code for the scenario which includes the map.
20151028 20:50:55< shadowm> I'd approach the editor's scenario functionality it as an aid more than a repla-- that.
20151028 20:51:16< iceiceice> Leendert: the basic map editor in 1.10 was only for making maps
20151028 20:51:24< iceiceice> the 1.12 editor can layout units and configure sides
20151028 20:51:28< celticminstrel> (Or make a scenario, then edit it to add additional stuff.
20151028 20:51:30< celticminstrel> )
20151028 20:51:33< iceiceice> but you still have to script the events by hand
20151028 20:51:42< iceiceice> because... that is coding and it is best done in a text editor
20151028 20:52:14< celticminstrel> Well, coding can be done in other ways, you know.
20151028 20:52:28< Leendert> Oh, well first study wml than for me i 'm affraid...
20151028 20:52:36< celticminstrel> It would be entirely possible to make it possible to construct events in the map editor.
20151028 20:52:45< celticminstrel> But at this point, it hasn't been done.
20151028 20:52:50< iceiceice> celticminstrel: yeah, i mean, i used the blizzard scenario editor when i was a kid
20151028 20:52:59< iceiceice> where all the events can be created with drop down menus
20151028 20:53:15< celticminstrel> For me it was AoE2.
20151028 20:53:24< celticminstrel> (Also BoE and BoA.)
20151028 20:53:36< iceiceice> making something like that is a ton of work, and to be honest, i think its not better than a text file
20151028 20:53:42< Leendert> No hope for me with just map editor :-((
20151028 20:53:42< celticminstrel> (But that's a different genre.)
20151028 20:53:48< iceiceice> because, its very hard to then read the scenario code
20151028 20:53:51< celticminstrel> I don't think it's worse than a text file.
20151028 20:54:02< celticminstrel> Well... I don't know what the Blizzard one is like, mind you.
20151028 20:54:08< celticminstrel> The AoE2 one wasn't very good, honestly.
20151028 20:54:09< iceiceice> if i want to see what events are fired in some cases...
20151028 20:54:14< iceiceice> i ahve to like, click on all these little boxes
20151028 20:54:20< iceiceice> instead of just scrolling
20151028 20:54:21< iceiceice> idk
20151028 20:54:27< celticminstrel> The Lego Mindsweeper editor was fairly good though.
20151028 20:54:31< iceiceice> i mean i also used the "lego mindstorms" graphical programming thing
20151028 20:54:37< iceiceice> it was nice for kids i think
20151028 20:54:38< celticminstrel> Right, storms.
20151028 20:54:40< iceiceice> but i dont think it scales up
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20151028 20:55:04< celticminstrel> I don't think it's better or worse, just... different.
20151028 20:55:21< iceiceice> i think at some point if you want to make a wesnoth scenario of any significant size, you're best off with a text editor
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20151028 20:55:37< iceiceice> i mean there is also the UMC IDE program
20151028 20:55:41< celticminstrel> Text is easy to edit. A graphical interface has better ease-of-use for certain people.
20151028 20:55:47< iceiceice> thats like some fancy VS like text edtior
20151028 20:55:55< celticminstrel> They each have different advantages and disadvantages.
20151028 20:56:00< iceiceice> but i mean, that is also quite a feat
20151028 20:56:10< iceiceice> making a decent text editor that anyone would want to use is not a small task
20151028 20:56:47< iceiceice> celticminstrel: i mean, it's just my 2 cents, you are welcome to make a graphical interactive lego mindstorms-esque scenario maker of course :)
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20151028 22:49:03< shadowm> Yeah, the AoE2 editor's scripting options were terrible.
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20151028 23:13:40< iceiceice> shadowm: are there any plans on the horizon to update wesnoth to c++11/
20151028 23:14:02< iceiceice> i remember you talked about it at some point, wanted to ask if there was an update
20151028 23:15:12< shadowm> Paraphrasing myself from a few days ago, will consider it again after the SDL 2 port is merged in master.
20151028 23:17:01< shadowm> Since we are pretty much forced to stick with newer libraries (SDL 2 in particular), the only real concern is whether the versions of MSVC++ aquileia and gfgtdf use have sufficient support.
20151028 23:18:05< iceiceice> iiuc, C++11 support in msvc is pretty terrible until the 2015 edition
20151028 23:18:47< shadowm> We can choose to avoid specific features that aren't supported by those versions.
20151028 23:19:19< iceiceice> that would be, almost all of them
20151028 23:19:57< iceiceice> my 2 cents, usually programmers are encouraged to program to a standard, rather than, lowest common denominator of some compilers
20151028 23:20:18< iceiceice> so it doesn't waste people's time who only have one of those compilers
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 29 00:00:56 2015