--- Log opened Sun Nov 29 00:00:44 2015
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20151129 00:21:36< shadowm> zookeeper: That's probably just an accidental omission, not actually intended to read like that by the author.
20151129 00:22:33< shadowm> Um. Actually, no, I guess there's at least a whole sentence missing in there needed to make it sound correct.
20151129 00:24:30< lhx> shadowm: two brothers... There's just some grammar that can be tightened.
20151129 00:25:25< lhx> Even if the grammar is technically correct, it's not *good*. I like to edit things and I write professionally. Thought I'd chip in a bit. 
20151129 00:25:50< lhx> My C++ fu is very weak so I don't know how I could contribute to the code base
20151129 00:26:02< lhx> My C fu is slightly better but still in learning mode
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20151129 00:37:53< celticminstrel> [Nov 28@6:24:54pm] zookeeper: like, right now we have this: ""Desert Archers are trained from youth in archery, and so skilled in long-range combat." :P
20151129 00:38:05< celticminstrel> That more or less seems fine to me, honestly.
20151129 00:38:23< lhx> celticminstrel: I'll link my PR in a bit
20151129 00:38:24< celticminstrel> Though it's a bit awkward. Duplicating "are" in the second phrase would help that.
20151129 00:38:31< celticminstrel> Oh, yeah, please do.
20151129 00:38:39< shadowm> "Desert Archers are awesome, and so skilled."
20151129 00:38:43< lhx> celticminstrel: the awkwardness is what I'm trying to fix a bit. 
20151129 00:38:48< Aginor> I think the "so" makes it awkward
20151129 00:38:54< Aginor> so skilled!
20151129 00:38:56< shadowm> "Like oh my god so skilled."
20151129 00:38:57< Aginor> much aweosme!
20151129 00:39:10< celticminstrel> That's because there's an ambiguity.
20151129 00:39:31< celticminstrel> Between "so" as an adverb modifying "skilled" vs "so" as a synonym(?) for "thus".
20151129 00:39:35< shadowm> If it's meant to be equivalent to 'thus' then it's still an awakward construct.
20151129 00:39:40< shadowm> awkward
20151129 00:39:57< celticminstrel> That's why I said duplicating "are" would help - "and so are skilled"
20151129 00:40:03< shadowm> "Desert Archers are trained from youth in archery, and thus (somehow magically who knows) skilled in long-range combat."
20151129 00:40:06< celticminstrel> It resolves the ambiguity.
20151129 00:40:21< celticminstrel> What's with the "somehow magically who knows"?
20151129 00:40:35< shadowm> I'm saying that semantically the sentence is still crap.
20151129 00:40:52< celticminstrel> I don't think I agree.
20151129 00:41:01< celticminstrel> It's a coordinated verb phrase.
20151129 00:41:08< shadowm> It's saying something that doesn't really say anything.
20151129 00:41:16< celticminstrel> Or I guess I should say "coordinated verb phrases".
20151129 00:41:25< shadowm> Like yes, we get it, you are trained to do long-range combat, that's why you are archers.
20151129 00:41:29< celticminstrel> Hmm, I see what you mean now.
20151129 00:41:50< celticminstrel> Right, that's why you said semantically, huh.
20151129 00:42:12< celticminstrel> I was only analyzing it syntactically after all.
20151129 00:42:26< shadowm> It's possible that like the stats and sprites for these units, this description was taken from the mainline elves back in Wesnoth's Dark Age.
20151129 00:42:39< shadowm> i.e. before 1.0.
20151129 00:43:22< shadowm> I at least recall the Desert Shyde's description being nearly identical to the 0.9.5's Elvish Shyde.
20151129 00:44:34< shadowm> I can't really complain, though. Most of my units have placeholder ("FIXME") or outdated descriptions.
20151129 00:45:44< shadowm> And by outdated I mean using really crappy grammar and malapropisms.
20151129 00:45:49< lhx> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/556
20151129 00:46:36< lhx> ^ is what I mean by fixing the crappy grammar. I could do even more on a subsequent request too. I had just fired up that campaign to play and the grammar was driving me nuts "ARRRRR"
20151129 00:46:49< shadowm> vultraz will probably want to take a look at this since he's a native speaker with an interest in writing.
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20151129 00:48:58< celticminstrel> I hope you're not just changing passive voice solely for the sake of changing passive voice...
20151129 00:49:34< lhx> celticminstrel: some of it is super weak dude
20151129 00:49:36< lhx> :)
20151129 00:49:40< celticminstrel> Okay, based on your first change, I feel like you're misunderstanding something here.
20151129 00:49:46< celticminstrel> Though, I could be wrong.
20151129 00:50:07< celticminstrel> "the rumor of words touched them not" sounds like it could be a deliberate archaism.
20151129 00:50:07< lhx> like what? (genuinely curious)
20151129 00:50:22< lhx> Ugggh... the deliberate archaisms are what's soooo bad
20151129 00:50:56< celticminstrel> The second change "began to fear" -> "feared" completely changes the semantics.
20151129 00:51:14< lhx> hang on, let me word diff it
20151129 00:51:23< celticminstrel> You've also eliminated ellipsis in the same line.
20151129 00:52:05< celticminstrel> In many cases, deliberate archaisms are part of the flavour.
20151129 00:54:17< celticminstrel> Also, this is fiction, not formal writing. Passive voice is not something to be shunned.
20151129 00:55:02< lhx> celticminstrel: I'll admit that I might lose on the deliberate archaisms. But hell no. All writers should avoid passive voice like the plague... 
20151129 00:55:15< lhx> It's something used sparingly. Not as a default.
20151129 00:55:36< celticminstrel> That's a pretty terrible attitude to a core part of your language.
20151129 00:55:51< celticminstrel> It's really not something that should only be used sparingly.
20151129 00:56:26< lhx> celticminstrel: But seriously... you're actually advocating for writing passively over actively?
20151129 00:56:30< celticminstrel> It may be something that gets overused in some situations, thus explaining why it's frowned upon in formal writing, but it's not something to avoid like the plague in a general sense.
20151129 00:56:37< celticminstrel> There are lots of reasons to use passive over active.
20151129 00:56:53< celticminstrel> The best reason is if the agent is unknown, of course.
20151129 00:57:10< celticminstrel> But another reason would be if you want to place more emphasis on the patient of the action rather than the agent.
20151129 00:57:58< celticminstrel> (Similar to why people might use the topicalizing construct of "It was XYZ that blah blah blah".
20151129 00:58:00< celticminstrel> )
20151129 00:58:20< lhx> Sure. But those should be used sparingly. As a twist to a default active voice style
20151129 00:58:30< celticminstrel> It's not about a twist.
20151129 00:58:39< lhx> Writing paragraph after paragraph of passive voice is bad
20151129 00:58:51< celticminstrel> Okay, sure, maybe that's the case.
20151129 00:59:07< lhx> celticminstrel: I have a doctorate in this crap... you're not going to change my views about the passive
20151129 00:59:21< celticminstrel> That's a pity.
20151129 00:59:33< celticminstrel> But having a doctorate doesn't mean you're right.
20151129 00:59:50< celticminstrel> Personally, I feel that your change in line 58 makes the dialogue somehow more awkward.
20151129 00:59:51< lhx> celticminstrel: your position on the passive is the minority
20151129 01:00:04< celticminstrel> Do you have hard data to back up that assertion?
20151129 01:00:16< celticminstrel> Have you done a survey of 10,000 native English speakers?
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20151129 01:00:43< lhx> Strunk and White, Bryan Garner, Fowler. And no, I'm not a researcher. Speaking is not writing. 
20151129 01:01:16< celticminstrel> Style guides are largely irrelevant in the context of Wesnoth.
20151129 01:01:27< celticminstrel> They're geared more towards formal writing, after all.
20151129 01:01:51< celticminstrel> That doesn't mean they don't have anything useful for a less formal context, but...
20151129 01:02:08< lhx> celticminstrel: fine, I'll remove the PR. Have fun with your game sounding like a 12 year-old ESL kid wrote it. 
20151129 01:02:18< celticminstrel> Don't just remove it.
20151129 01:02:28< celticminstrel> I'm only one opinion here, after all.
20151129 01:02:48< celticminstrel> Though I guess, if you really want to remove it...
20151129 01:03:12< celticminstrel> That said, I am a native English speaker, and it doesn't sound like the writing of a 12-year-old ESL kid to me.
20151129 01:03:57< lhx> Good game writing is still good writing. And good writing favors active over passive, and only uses passive tactically. Terse, pithy language with strong verbs is the goal. 
20151129 01:04:12< celticminstrel> Your second sentence is false.
20151129 01:04:22< lhx> celticminstrel: Nope. 
20151129 01:04:23< celticminstrel> I can't find argument with the third sentence.
20151129 01:04:42 * lhx smh...
20151129 01:05:52< lhx> Removing the PR now. Guess that'll teach me to try to help. 
20151129 01:06:13< celticminstrel> Well, it's your choice, I guess.
20151129 01:06:24< shadowm> Wesnoth's style is intended to be reminiscent of high fantasy literature, just for the record.
20151129 01:06:36< lhx> Fair enough
20151129 01:06:40< celticminstrel> Also, most of this is representing people speaking.
20151129 01:06:46< shadowm> There are a lot of different writing styles you can have for a game, there's no one-size-fits-all solution to this.
20151129 01:06:56< lhx> Fair enough
20151129 01:08:57< celticminstrel> The proper way to de-passivize "They have been terrorizing farms" is probably not "They have terrorized farms" but rather "They were terrorizing farms"... though I think it still subtly changes the meaning somehow...
20151129 01:09:21< celticminstrel> Ah, wait, hmm..
20151129 01:09:33< lhx> Whoever is the BDFL or group or committee ought to reexamine the deliberate anachronisms and poor writing in the campaigns. They keep Wesnoth's quality level down and will cause gamers to mentally downgrade the dev effort. Presentation *matters*. Have fun. 
20151129 01:09:36< celticminstrel> I suppose both could be valid de-passivizations, just with a different focus...
20151129 01:09:55< celticminstrel> Deliberate archaisms don't qualify as reducing the level of quality.
20151129 01:09:55< shadowm> gfgtdf: I haven't tried to reproduce the bug with the new info you have me, but something just occurred to me. is_invalid_filename_char() operates on 1 byte-sized input. The Unicode apostrophe is a multi-byte wide char in UTF-8.
20151129 01:09:58< lhx> celticminstrel: you go re-write it then. I'm done attempting to reason with you
20151129 01:10:03< lhx> good night
20151129 01:10:06< celticminstrel> Sorry.
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20151129 01:10:31< shadowm> gfgtdf: So of course it's a foolish endeavor to try to validate that char byte-wise.
20151129 01:10:32< celticminstrel> Did I do something I shouldn't have?
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20151129 01:10:46< shadowm> celticminstrel: Nah.
20151129 01:11:12< celticminstrel> Should I look over the rest of the PR since I still have it open?
20151129 01:11:58< shadowm> Let's say I know I am right and you are wrong. The last thing I want to do is throw passive-aggressive insults at your work to back up my arguments.
20151129 01:12:37< shadowm> Even if the argument is right, that's not the right attitude for contributing to this project.
20151129 01:12:51< celticminstrel> Changing "That they should dare this" to "How dare they" wouldn't be a bad thing, but there's not strong reason to do it.
20151129 01:13:14< celticminstrel> There might even be a reason not to that I'm unaware of.
20151129 01:13:46< shadowm> gfgtdf: What I suggest we should do instead is use a Unicode-safe check (char-wise instead of byte-wise).
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20151129 01:14:14< celticminstrel> I guess those two are the only changes he made that actually didn't make me think "no, this isn't what we want".
20151129 01:17:02< shadowm> gfgtdf: Also, here's an idea: edit the first scenario's name instead of playing all the way to the first scenario with an apostrophe in it. :p
20151129 01:18:31< shadowm> gfgtdf: So on Linux it does what it should do: drop the apostrophe since none of its component bytes pass the check, without causing an assertion failure.
20151129 01:18:39< shadowm> (Just tested.)
20151129 01:19:08< celticminstrel> Surrogates always fall into the 128-255 range after all.
20151129 01:19:08< shadowm> gfgtdf: Does isalnum()'s behavior in this regard differ between the Debug and not-Debug MSVC++ runtimes, by the way?
20151129 01:19:44< shadowm> I'd expect the non-Debug version to return to the caller without triggering an assertion failure.
20151129 01:25:45< shadowm> celticminstrel: I'm an ESL speaker to me, so I'm afraid I'm automatically barred from commenting on these changes.
20151129 01:25:51< shadowm> s/to me//
20151129 01:26:01< shadowm> (Why did I write that.)
20151129 01:26:24< celticminstrel> Ah, so that's why you stayed out of it...
20151129 01:28:08< shadowm> Personally, I don't have anything against passive voice, I use it a lot. Perhaps more than I actually should.
20151129 01:28:53< shadowm> S1 line 54 is full of questionable changes.
20151129 01:28:57< celticminstrel> I think I also use it a fair amount.
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20151129 01:29:53< celticminstrel> Mmhm.
20151129 01:30:51< shadowm> On line 58 it becomes evident that the right-hand side of the diff aims for more practical writing.
20151129 01:31:15< shadowm> And as much as it annoys me from time to time, Wesnoth is not about practical writing.
20151129 01:32:45< shadowm> Line 62 follows the same trend, but I'd like to mention that in the original, "Fortunate it was for all that" sounds way too contrived.
20151129 01:33:45< celticminstrel> Hmm... you have a point there...
20151129 01:34:18< celticminstrel> The main part of that change I disagree with, though.
20151129 01:35:18< celticminstrel> The location of the "when" clause is better in the LHS in my opinion.
20151129 01:35:24< shadowm> Line 220, first tense change changes meaning (transitioning from an ongoing action to a past action).
20151129 01:35:40< celticminstrel> Right, I brought that one up earlier.
20151129 01:35:57< celticminstrel> That's why I suggested "were terrorizing" instead, though I'm not entirely sure about that.
20151129 01:36:05< shadowm> LHS of the same line has something vultraz and I dubbed a "cancan" situation after a particular incident.
20151129 01:36:18< celticminstrel> I don't know what that means...
20151129 01:36:29< shadowm> "The villagers [...] but they [...]; but we [...]"
20151129 01:36:40< celticminstrel> Oh that.
20151129 01:36:41< shadowm> "but; but"
20151129 01:37:23< celticminstrel> I don't think it's necessary to change it, but I wouldn't be opposed to changing it.
20151129 01:37:52< shadowm> If I were to write a line like that I'd only allow that for happen in very informal speech (which rarely crops up in mainline for whatever reason) or when the character is clearly alarmed or desperate etc.
20151129 01:38:03< shadowm> *for that to
20151129 01:38:28< shadowm> But in mainline, even farmers speak in formal English, so...
20151129 01:38:29< celticminstrel> The "taken up weapons" -> "armed themselves" change is just completely pointless. It's a different way of phrasing the same thing.
20151129 01:39:00< celticminstrel> Neither way is more correct in terms of grammar and syntax.
20151129 01:39:25< shadowm> Line 235 can't comment on this because I think I've hated every variation of this line I've ever seen.
20151129 01:39:40< celticminstrel> Is that so...
20151129 01:40:17< shadowm> "I will announce my plans aloud in great detail even though most of it is generic strategy."
20151129 01:40:42< shadowm> Ït's also very risky and stupid and this is why I get kidnapped when nobody's looking."
20151129 01:40:48< celticminstrel> The first change in the diff I think makes it worse, the second though might not bee bad.
20151129 01:41:04< celticminstrel> ^be
20151129 01:41:16< celticminstrel> I think I would've used "while" instead of "when".
20151129 01:41:53< shadowm> Line 314 is a tough one.
20151129 01:42:21< shadowm> I believe the LHS is trying to say that the scouts didn't see Baran being carried away, but rather that they got this information second-hand.
20151129 01:42:56< shadowm> Or at least that's my literal reading.
20151129 01:43:26< shadowm> A less literal version is that they report that they saw Baran [...] but that's also a weird thing to say.
20151129 01:45:25< shadowm> Line 319: Ehhhhhhhhh.
20151129 01:45:28< celticminstrel> Hmm.
20151129 01:45:36< shadowm> This is the kind of cheesy line I wouldn't write. :p
20151129 01:45:44< celticminstrel> Eheh...
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20151129 02:35:39< gfgtdf> Aginor: just for testing the bugs i reported?
20151129 02:36:05< gfgtdf> shadowm: i thought my wesnothd was a release build but i may be wrong
20151129 02:36:26< gfgtdf> shadowm: it quite posssible thath i'm worng since be didn't rebuild it for some time
20151129 02:37:50< gfgtdf> shadowm: to me the is_invalid_filename_char functiojn looks currentl very random.
20151129 02:38:04< gfgtdf> shadowm: for example it seems to allow characters like '\'
20151129 02:38:42< gfgtdf> shadowm: i wonder why we do this check at all
20151129 02:38:55< gfgtdf> shadowm: i also don't see how it prevents names like ".."
20151129 02:42:02< celticminstrel> I think it's based on Windows limitations.
20151129 02:42:14< celticminstrel> You're right, it doesn't prevent .. or .
20151129 02:42:33< gfgtdf> shadowm: also isvalid_username uses isalnum which is just as bad
20151129 02:42:44< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: what do you mean?
20151129 02:42:59< celticminstrel> Windows disallows a number of special characters in filenames.
20151129 02:43:06< celticminstrel> More so than UNIX-like systems.
20151129 02:43:17< celticminstrel> I suspect the function is mostly based on those limitations.
20151129 02:43:42< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: but what i said is that id does allow characters liek '\'
20151129 02:44:01< celticminstrel> Hm.
20151129 02:44:11< celticminstrel> It allows backslashes then?
20151129 02:44:35< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i dont think so.
20151129 02:46:58< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: wait i actualy dont know which is teh backskash and which is teh forwardslash
20151129 02:47:10< celticminstrel> Backslash is \
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20151129 02:51:42< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: it allows that chracter thats what i said above 2 times.
20151129 02:51:59< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i winder whether you can put forward slashes ina windows filename 
20151129 02:52:01< gfgtdf> wonder*
20151129 02:52:03< celticminstrel> Maybe I'm wrong then...
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20151129 02:52:21< celticminstrel> Windows filenames shouldn't allow either type of slashes, I think.
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20151129 04:30:04< shadowm> celticminstrel, gfgtdf: Windows disallows both forward and backslashes.
20151129 04:30:48< shadowm> Also colons and double quotes ". All four characters that have a specific meaning in file paths, amongst others.
20151129 04:46:07< celticminstrel> ...quotes have special meanings in file paths?
20151129 04:46:33< shadowm> It's actually a more meta thing, it's not intrinsic to the filesystem code.
20151129 04:47:11< shadowm> Quotes are used to tell where the image path ends in a command line like `"C:\Program Files\Foo\Bar.exe" /a /b /c`.
20151129 04:48:37< shadowm> `C:\Program Files\Foo\Bar.exe` works if you don't need to pass any arguments, but if you have `C:\Program Files\Foo\Bar.exe /a` Windows will attempt to run `C:\Program.{exe|com|bat|cmd|...} Files\Foo\Bar.exe /a` instead.
20151129 04:49:30< shadowm> This applies to all ShellExecute() and CreateProcess() users.
20151129 04:50:43< shadowm> In fact, `C:\Program Files\Foo\Bar.exe` will give you `C:\Program.{exe|com|bat|cmd|...} Files\Foo\Bar.exe` too.
20151129 04:51:32< shadowm> It's just that IIRC the shell (meaning Windows Explorer) is somewhat more lenient for that particular case.
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20151129 04:55:58< shadowm> IIRC Windows also won't allow you to use whitespace control chars like LF, CR, FF, VT that would normally be accepted by Linux.
20151129 04:57:19< shadowm> (Yes, you can have a filename that's nothing but line breaks. Unix philosophy taken to its illogical extreme.)
20151129 04:57:38< celticminstrel> I'm aware of that weirdness in Unixes.
20151129 04:58:01< celticminstrel> They actually allow anything except for forward slash, as I recall.
20151129 04:59:05< shadowm> Or \0.
20151129 04:59:53< celticminstrel> That would make sense as well, yeah.
20151129 04:59:56< shadowm> Oh, I forgot to mention HT above. Best way to drive a Python fan nuts, I imagine.
20151129 05:00:57 * shadowm is definitely not implying that Python fans are physically incapable of processing HT characters.
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20151129 05:02:07< celticminstrel> PEP8 9_9
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20151129 07:13:26< gamazone> Hi Guys
20151129 07:14:11< vultraz> hey 
20151129 07:14:26< gamazone> I have been trying to build wesnoth in mac but getting error like :-dyld: Library not loaded: @executable_path/../Frameworks/libboost_filesystemw.dylib Reason: image not found
20151129 07:14:56< gamazone> i tried solutions given in stackOverflow but not nothing works
20151129 07:15:30< Aginor> gamazone: have you seen http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnMacOSX ?
20151129 07:15:43< vultraz> you'll have to ask mattsc or ancestral (or possibly celticminstral?) about os x build problems, since I don't have a mac
20151129 07:15:47< Aginor> in particular where it links to the big package of dependencies? :)
20151129 07:16:21< gamazone> yes I read those links
20151129 07:17:32< Aginor> gamazone: good, then you have downloaded the dependencies from here? http://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/unofficial/Mac%20Compile%20Stuff/
20151129 07:17:56< gamazone> yes the one with 1.13
20151129 07:18:00< Aginor> then you simply need to Unzip the compilation material. Copy folders lib/ Headers/ and Wesnoth.dmgCanvas/ into projectfiles/Xcode/ in your local Wesnoth repository folder. 
20151129 07:18:06< Aginor> according to the page :)
20151129 07:18:19< Aginor> (I haven't built from within xcode on the mac)
20151129 07:18:29< gamazone> oh!
20151129 07:20:29< gamazone> So how I can connect to the devleopers you have mentioned ?
20151129 07:21:43< Aginor> gamazone: hang around, most of them read the logs and will pop around whe they see they've been mentioned
20151129 07:22:02< gamazone> ok thanks :)
20151129 07:22:21< Aginor> gamazone: but my suspicion from your error is that you've got the file locations wrong somewhere
20151129 07:22:33< Aginor> when unpacking the dependencies
20151129 07:22:42< gamazone> yes
20151129 07:25:19< Aginor> which version of of x is it you're building?
20151129 07:26:54< gamazone> xcode version 7.0.1
20151129 07:27:43< Aginor> so pretty much latest
20151129 07:28:34< gamazone> yes, just had to switch for other projects
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20151129 07:33:03< gamazone> I just logged in again here but can't see previous chat how to find ?
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20151129 07:55:31< shadowm> gamazone: http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2015/11/
20151129 07:55:44< shadowm> In particular, http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2015/11/%23wesnoth-dev.2015-11-29.log .
20151129 08:02:53< gamazone> thanks alot
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20151129 08:45:50< gamazone> Anyone builind wesnoth using Xcode 7.0.1
20151129 08:46:34< shadowm> gfgtdf: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Events#wesnoth.game_events  About the proposed disallow_undo() example -- wouldn't it be better to provide a built-in function to achieve the same thing for clarity?
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20151129 14:00:50< gfgtdf> shadowm: that comment in the wki was also written for 1.12 addons where its impossible to add suhc features
20151129 14:01:15< shadowm> I know. I meant for 1.14.
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20151129 14:05:09< gfgtdf> shadowm: we could put that function from the wiki example in wesnoth lua helper table.
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20151129 15:08:58< mattsc> gamazone: I compile Wesnoth in Xcode, my current version is 7.1.1 on OS X 10.10
20151129 15:09:23< mattsc> It used to work just fine, but when I just tried, I had not compiled in several weeks, I get the same error as you do.
20151129 15:09:38< mattsc> I figured out what to do about it, but I don’t understand what’s going on yet.
20151129 15:09:53< celticminstrel> Hm?
20151129 15:10:29< mattsc> celticminstrel: when I remove the libraries that cause the linking error, and add them back in, everything works.
20151129 15:10:39< mattsc> You didn’t do anything to the project file recently, did you?
20151129 15:10:45< celticminstrel> No.
20151129 15:10:57< celticminstrel> The stuff about unit tests never got merged.
20151129 15:11:04< mattsc> It didn’t look like it (I did check the history)
20151129 15:11:34< mattsc> One other thing I noticed is that the library files themselves show up as changed in ‘git status’ after I do that.
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20151129 15:11:57< mattsc> I don’t remember that happening before.  Do I just not remember or is that new?
20151129 15:12:28< mattsc> I already noticed that when I did the unit_test testing
20151129 15:12:37< celticminstrel> Huh?
20151129 15:12:54< celticminstrel> If you mean the references to them in the XCode project, then that's normal.
20151129 15:13:07< mattsc> I mean the files themselves
20151129 15:13:20< mattsc> “new file:   projectfiles/Xcode/lib/libboost_chrono-mt.dylib”
20151129 15:13:44< mattsc> “deleted:    projectfiles/Xcode/lib/libboost_chrono-mt.dylib”
20151129 15:14:03< celticminstrel> Uh, how can it be deleted? It was never in the repo in the first place, right?
20151129 15:14:11< mattsc> Exactly
20151129 15:14:22< mattsc> That’s what I am confused about
20151129 15:14:46< celticminstrel> What happens after git rm --cached projectfiles/Xcode/lib/libboost_chrono-mt.dylib?
20151129 15:16:47< mattsc> No change in the output of git status
20151129 15:17:16< celticminstrel> What about just git reset?
20151129 15:17:37< mattsc> Btw, this is just one of the files, I get the same message for roughly a dozen of the files in lib/, but not for all of them
20151129 15:17:50< celticminstrel> Not all...
20151129 15:18:05< celticminstrel> The entire folder is included in .gitignore though, as I recall...
20151129 15:18:18< mattsc> Yes; bizzare
20151129 15:18:32< mattsc> I had just done a new checkout of master
20151129 15:18:53< mattsc> When I compiled, I got the linking error.
20151129 15:19:37< mattsc> Then I deleted and readded the boost libs for wesnothd  (the linking error happened for wesnothd, before Wesnoth started to compile)
20151129 15:20:08< mattsc> deleted and added them from the build phases, I mean, not the files themselves
20151129 15:20:36< mattsc> after that, it linked wesnothd, but I get those changes in git status
20151129 15:21:40< mattsc> I did upgrade to Xcode 7.1.1 on Nov 12 and I had not compiled since then, but 1.12 compiles just fine, so I really don’t know what’s going on...
20151129 15:21:53< celticminstrel> What's the error, missing symbols?
20151129 15:22:17< mattsc> 20151129 07:14:26< gamazone> I have been trying to build wesnoth in mac but getting error like :-dyld: Library not loaded: @executable_path/../Frameworks/libboost_filesystemw.dylib Reason: image not found
20151129 15:22:25< celticminstrel> Oh, that.
20151129 15:22:37< celticminstrel> So something has the wrong install name.
20151129 15:22:53< celticminstrel> Notice how the error has a w on the end but your libs have -mt
20151129 15:23:17< mattsc> ah, crap …
20151129 15:23:27< celticminstrel> I was getting errors of that sort myself when trying to deal with the unit tests.
20151129 15:23:28< mattsc> thanks
20151129 15:23:56< celticminstrel> I don't understand why the libs are shown in the index though.
20151129 15:24:14< mattsc> Right, me neither, that’s the other thing I am confused about.
20151129 15:24:16< celticminstrel> git reset didn't fix it?
20151129 15:24:34< mattsc> Remember that we were talking about changing the dylib filenames when we did the unit_test testing?
20151129 15:25:00< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20151129 15:25:01< mattsc> I had done that for those tests/files and I did not switch back when switching to master
20151129 15:26:01< mattsc> nope  (not if you mean just typing ‘git reset’ in this current situation without doing anything else)
20151129 15:26:26< mattsc> As I said, when I did the unit_tests, I already noticed that the libraries showed up in git status
20151129 15:26:48< mattsc> (well, in the github gui, really, but that just uses git status)
20151129 15:28:25< mattsc> celticminstrel: oh, now it did …
20151129 15:28:41< mattsc> after I did a couple other things.
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20151129 15:43:22< mattsc> gamazone: ignore everything I wrote before this (those problems were due to having messed with the libraries for some testing we did a couple weeks ago; my mistake)
20151129 15:44:12< mattsc> After I reset the library, Wesnoth builds and runs just fine.
20151129 15:44:49< mattsc> I did this by downloading and reinstalling wesnoth_compile_mac_1.13.zip from the link provided on the wiki, just to be sure that those still work.
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20151129 15:45:19< mattsc> So your problem is most likely caused by what Aginor said, that you did not put the libraries into the correct folder.
20151129 15:46:44< mattsc> If you check out projectfiles/Xcode/lib/ (starting from tyour main repository folder), do you see libboost_filesystemw.dylib ?
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20151129 15:54:04< irker803> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd 084a7c279e55 / src/server/ (server.cpp server.hpp): Reenabled the capability to read admin commands from named pipe http://git.io/vBDVO
20151129 15:54:46< celticminstrel> I don't think he's actually here right now, you know.
20151129 15:55:21< mattsc> I know that, I hope he reads the logs, because  shortly I won’t be here any more.
20151129 16:02:29< gfgtdf> vultraz: you have an opinion on how to handle teh LoW carryover godl issue?
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20151129 16:03:48< gfgtdf> vultraz: maybe we shoudl add a 'bonus_factor' sttribute to [endlevel] to handle this ?
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20151129 16:05:21< vultraz> gfgtdf: what is the issue?
20151129 16:06:32< gfgtdf> vultraz: in LoW both sides get the carraover bonus gold (that is num_villages*turns_left*gold_per_village) so that in later scenarios the players have muhc more gold in total than in SP if the finish scenario very early
20151129 16:07:34< vultraz> so MP has more gold than SP, eh?
20151129 16:08:23< gfgtdf> vultraz: only the early finishing bonus. normal staing godl is already differnt in SP and MP and also the normal carryover gold works as it should.
20151129 16:09:09< vultraz> gfgtdf: so the problem is that since there are more player sides, each side gets carryover? or what
20151129 16:09:11< vultraz> er
20151129 16:09:14< vultraz> bonus carryover
20151129 16:09:21< gfgtdf> yes
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20151129 16:18:50< irker803> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master a3bc17a9fe73 / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (9 files in 6 dirs): more LoW cleanups http://git.io/vBDP3
20151129 16:18:52< irker803> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master da163512f9d0 / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/chapter2/08_Council_of_Hard_Choices.cfg: fix mp connect beeing shown before LoW scenario8 http://git.io/vBDPs
20151129 16:18:54< irker803> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 44179a2cbb50 / src/scripting/lua_team.cpp: add lua getter for side save_id http://git.io/vBDPG
20151129 16:18:56< irker803> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master d8c679c5db1b / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (9 files in 4 dirs): make allied human side sides 2,3,4 in scenario 6,9,10,11 in LoW http://git.io/vBDPn
20151129 16:21:57< gfgtdf> vultraz: you think we shoudl swicth LoW to teh percentage=40 add=yes bonus system ?
20151129 16:23:30< vultraz> hmmm
20151129 16:23:43< vultraz> gfgtdf: percentage 40 is the 'new' system, right?
20151129 16:23:52< gfgtdf> vultraz: yes
20151129 16:24:08< vultraz> and I think we decided to phase out 80?
20151129 16:24:11< vultraz> then yes, I think so
20151129 16:24:37< gfgtdf> vultraz: we give less carryover percentage but we add it to that starting godl instead of taking the maximum
20151129 16:25:05< gfgtdf> vultraz: any opinion on the other gold issue yet?
20151129 16:26:50< vultraz> im really not sure
20151129 16:27:00< vultraz> is it such a bad thing for the human sides to have that gold?
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20151129 16:31:09< gfgtdf> vultraz: according to 'Guest74919' it is.
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20151129 16:33:05< shadowm> The fact that he was using the nickname Xara before being enforced away from it shows that he's Xara, a much more recognizable name.
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20151129 16:38:23< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7847 (asio_wesnothd - 084a7c2 : loonycyborg): The build is still failing.
20151129 16:38:24< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/93787068
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20151129 17:22:41< irker803> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd de8f839da241 / src/server/ (server.cpp server.hpp): Reenabled handling of SIGHUP http://git.io/vBDxq
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20151129 18:13:04< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7849 (asio_wesnothd - de8f839 : loonycyborg): The build has errored.
20151129 18:13:04< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/93796634
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20151129 19:32:36< neverEnough> omg wesnoth just crashed O_O i'm amazed
20151129 19:33:32< neverEnough> i was playin like thousands times, when i turned back to pc i was in front of the desktop O_O
20151129 19:35:09< neverEnough> i got confirm by other player (Fraktala) it crashed also on his side
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20151129 20:03:24< gfgtdf> is there in linger mode actually any hint whether you have won the scenario?
20151129 20:03:31< gfgtdf> i thought there was but i cannot find it
20151129 20:03:51< fabi> gfgtdf: I deliberately did not switch to the 80% system.
20151129 20:04:26< fabi> from
20151129 20:04:27< gfgtdf> fabi: you mean to teh 40% system
20151129 20:04:33< fabi> yes
20151129 20:04:33< gfgtdf> fabi: why?
20151129 20:04:38< fabi> because of scenario7
20151129 20:04:51< fabi> well more because of the treasury thing
20151129 20:05:12< fabi> you collect the elvish tresury in scenario 4
20151129 20:05:17< fabi> 1800 gold
20151129 20:05:53< fabi> the scenarios which follow are meant to consume them
20151129 20:06:03< fabi> until you are stripped of the gold in 7
20151129 20:06:11< fabi> "giving it back to the Ka'lian"
20151129 20:07:21< gfgtdf> fabi: hmm ok this makes sense
20151129 20:07:31< fabi> :-)
20151129 20:07:39< fabi> gfgtdf: 14
20151129 20:07:50< fabi> why do you want to reduce the amount of player controlled sides?
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20151129 20:09:30< gfgtdf> fabi: it just seemed seemed to that having 8 player controlled makes controlling those units harder. I assume that the main reason for having 8 sides is to make them devisible by 4 for 4 players?
20151129 20:09:49< fabi> yes
20151129 20:09:55< fabi> but not only
20151129 20:10:17< fabi> you have player controlled units in there which are under the control of the player since ages and stay so.
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20151129 20:10:54< fabi> And then there  are the troops of Galtrid and El'isomithir (he was renamed but I don't renember the new name)
20151129 20:11:17< fabi> which are not supposed to join and stay with the players.
20151129 20:11:28< fabi> They only join for 14
20151129 20:13:37< fabi> Of course, you can merge them out but I would prefer to keep them seperated just to give the players a feeling of "mine" and "only under my control"
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20151129 20:14:20< shadowm> How many players is LoW supposed to support again? I was always under the impression that it was for 2 players but I'm now confused.
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20151129 20:17:59< gfgtdf> shadowm: i think scsnario 1-3 have 2 playable sides, 4-7 have 3 playable sides 8-14 have 4 playable sides and the other scenarios don't work verygood in mp yet.
20151129 20:18:31< gfgtdf> shadowm: also note that ~1/4 of the scanerios are story only scenarios.
20151129 20:20:06< shadowm> Sounds like organizing a game of this must be even more challenging than the actual gameplay.
20151129 20:20:40< shadowm> Though I suppose you can always let the AI play some sides.
20151129 20:21:13< gfgtdf> shadowm: i oudn't reccoment to let teh ai play human sides ina a campaign
20151129 20:21:13< gfgtdf> woudn't
20151129 20:21:33< gfgtdf> shadowm: rather i'd just let a player control 2 playable sides
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20151129 22:53:00-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20151129 22:53:00-!- Topic set by shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] [Tue Nov 10 01:58:55 2015]
20151129 22:53:00[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20151129 22:53:00[ _laco          ] [ DDR       ] [ heirecka  ] [ legoktm     ] [ nurupo    ] [ Soliton  ] 
20151129 22:53:00[ aeth           ] [ elias     ] [ higgins   ] [ lobby       ] [ oldlaptop ] [ TC01     ] 
20151129 22:53:00[ Aginor         ] [ EliDupree ] [ iceiceice ] [ Lohengramm  ] [ Polsaker  ] [ tomreyn  ] 
20151129 22:53:00[ AI0867         ] [ Elsi      ] [ ideuler   ] [ loonycyborg ] [ prkc      ] [ Tulvar   ] 
20151129 22:53:00[ avtobiff       ] [ esr2      ] [ Ivanovic  ] [ louis94     ] [ pydsigner ] [ vincent_c] 
20151129 22:53:00[ boucman        ] [ fabi      ] [ iwaim___  ] [ matthiaskrgr] [ quentinp  ] [ wedge009 ] 
20151129 22:53:00[ celticminstrel ] [ flowerhack] [ Jetrel    ] [ mjs-de      ] [ Ravana_   ] [ Yaiyan   ] 
20151129 22:53:00[ clavi          ] [ Greywhind ] [ Jetrel_bot] [ molgrum     ] [ Rhonda    ] [ ypnos    ] 
20151129 22:53:00[ Crendgrim      ] [ Grickit   ] [ kidneb    ] [ MrMaemo     ] [ shadowm   ] [ zookeeper] 
20151129 22:53:00[ crimson_penguin] [ Guest81714] [ knotwork  ] [ neverEnough ] [ shikadibot] [ {V}      ] 
20151129 22:53:00-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 60 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 60 normal]
20151129 22:53:04-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 05:28:41 2009
20151129 22:53:09< Tulvar> I have a lot of faction pages ot check but
20151129 22:53:15< Tulvar> not seeing anything so far
20151129 22:53:21< fabi> elias: Where is the unit.wesnoth.org run on?
20151129 22:53:31< shadowm> fabi: On wesnoth.org.
20151129 22:53:58< zookeeper> being able to download "whole units" individually would be a basically impossible feature with very fringe benefits. a link to the add-on (if there is not one yet) would be more than sufficient.
20151129 22:54:01< celticminstrel> Locating the code for a custom WML tag would mean searching for 'wesnoth.wml_actions["name"] =' or 'wesnoth.weml_actions.name =' or 'function wesnoth.wml_actions.name'
20151129 22:54:03< fabi> shadowm: Don't address me freak. 
20151129 22:54:12-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 80 secs
20151129 22:54:26< shadowm> fabi: Are you ever going to behave in a more civilized manner again?
20151129 22:54:37< shadowm> I literally only answered a question you had.
20151129 22:55:22< celticminstrel> ...
20151129 22:56:04< shadowm> celticminstrel: Or wml_actions, for people who like importing that into the local namespace.
20151129 22:56:54< celticminstrel> zookeeper: Good point, linking to the zip at addons.wesnoth.org would be easier while still giving almost the same effect.
20151129 22:57:13< zookeeper> yep
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20151129 22:58:17< Tulvar> hm the locked halo article points out that for Wesnoth ratlings
20151129 22:58:58< Tulvar> I would need to come up with canonical explinations of them rather than jumping off of other mats. Though with the existance of the giant rat
20151129 22:59:07< Tulvar> From there we could move forward. 
20151129 22:59:57< Tulvar> I guess that would mean also coming up with canonical submarine and ironhide ships
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 30 00:00:23 2015