--- Log opened Tue Dec 08 00:00:45 2015
20151208 00:06:01-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD119104003250.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151208 00:07:32< vultraz> gfgtdf: what if I just call it "display name"
20151208 00:07:53< vultraz> user_team_name -> display_name
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20151208 00:10:47< vultraz> so team and display_name
20151208 00:13:29< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm i still think that user_team_name is the name of the team.
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20151208 00:13:40< gfgtdf> vultraz: actualyl i think the whoe topic is very confusing
20151208 00:13:44< vultraz> gfgtdf: in SP it's used more like a side name
20151208 00:13:53< vultraz> so I think display_name is neutral enough 
20151208 00:13:53< irker480> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master f329b1e431a6 / data/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixup random_placement patch http://git.io/vRXHM
20151208 00:13:55< irker480> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 31ae13da1eee / src/ (8 files in 6 dirs): remove name= attribute in [side] http://git.io/vRXHD
20151208 00:13:56< gfgtdf> vultraz: specialyl i still didnt forget https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/278
20151208 00:14:13< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm where exactly is it used in mp ?
20151208 00:14:20< gfgtdf> sp*
20151208 00:14:31< vultraz> gfgtdf: side status table
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20151208 00:15:57< celticminstrel> What unit has the formation ability?
20151208 00:17:17< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: ^
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20151208 00:17:54< gfgtdf_> celticminstrel: its from the link zookeeper posted
20151208 00:18:06< celticminstrel> I know, but which unit?
20151208 00:18:53< gfgtdf_> celticminstrel: i don't know i just saw the marco that gives the weapon special to other units
20151208 00:19:28< celticminstrel> Oh wait, you were probably looking under utils...
20151208 00:21:41< celticminstrel> I was just wondering if it would be reasonable to use a "dummy" ranged attack, which can be used only on defense and does no damage.
20151208 00:21:48< gfgtdf_> celticminstrel: i was looking at the diff from qwesnoth to master
20151208 00:21:53< celticminstrel> Ah.
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20151208 00:35:13< shadowm> 21:13:45 <vultraz> gfgtdf: in SP it's used more like a side name
20151208 00:35:22< shadowm> Is it?
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20151208 00:36:08< celticminstrel> Side name is usually the same as leader name, I think.
20151208 00:37:00< vultraz> Well, team_name isn't exactly accurate since there can be different team names for the same team
20151208 00:37:07< vultraz> and side_name might be confusing for mp
20151208 00:37:09< shadowm> celticminstrel: No.
20151208 00:37:15< vultraz> so I'm suggesting display_name
20151208 00:37:19< celticminstrel> No?
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20151208 00:37:48< shadowm> user_team_name is the second column in the Status Table dialog, the leader unit's name is the first column.
20151208 00:38:48< shadowm> Leader and Team columns, resp.
20151208 00:39:07< celticminstrel> But "team name" isn't necessarily the same as "side name", right?
20151208 00:39:20< shadowm> There isn't a side name yet.
20151208 00:39:23< celticminstrel> Right.
20151208 00:39:34< shadowm> However, user_team_name may differ for each side regardless of what team they are in.
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20151208 00:44:53< shadowm> vultraz: http://i.imgur.com/QVO0siY.png
20151208 00:45:23< vultraz> hm?
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20151208 00:45:41< vultraz> wat happened to LoW
20151208 00:46:05< shadowm> Ignore the LoW names, that was part of a test.
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20151208 00:49:21 * shadowm wonders if vultraz can see the bug yet.
20151208 00:50:25< vultraz> I really can't
20151208 00:51:49< shadowm> So you haven't realized that the left panel stretches to fit its contents (at least for the save at the top of the list) making it much wider than it's supposed to be?
20151208 00:53:16< vultraz> ah, yes
20151208 00:53:18< vultraz> that
20151208 00:54:19< shadowm> celticminstrel: 20151207 21:54:13 warning scripting/lua: wesnoth.put_unit(x, y, unit) is deprecated. Use wesnoth.put_unit(unit, x, y) instead
20151208 00:54:25< shadowm> Times four, test scenario.
20151208 00:54:52< celticminstrel> Right...
20151208 00:55:28< shadowm> I'd like to see that fixed before Friday 00:00 UTC btw.
20151208 00:55:46< celticminstrel> I'll do it right now.
20151208 00:55:50-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth 1.13.2 release ETA: December 11th 00:00 UTC | Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20151208 00:56:35< vultraz> shadowm: does this mean the sdl2 branch is merging?
20151208 00:56:38< shadowm> gfgtdf_: So it looks like the chat duplication issue was fixed?
20151208 00:56:46< shadowm> vultraz: Did you see my email to the ML?
20151208 00:57:15< gfgtdf_> shadowm: at lest i tired to, but i dont really know why my fix works so im not sure
20151208 00:57:31< gfgtdf_> shadowm: i tested it once and it seemed to work
20151208 00:57:32< shadowm> vultraz: The fact that you are asking that question strongly implies that you didn't or didn't read the first section in its entirety. Color me disappointed.
20151208 00:57:49< celticminstrel> Or he has a bad memory.
20151208 00:58:01< vultraz> Oh, i see. You want to release before merging 
20151208 00:58:33< shadowm> gfgtdf_: Yeah, seems to work for me, although I have no idea what the patch is or when it landed.
20151208 00:59:11< shadowm> Commit 85bbfa90ccf35b60b2589ccdfbd52f5d5562317a ?
20151208 00:59:32< gfgtdf_> yes
20151208 00:59:48< shadowm> Eh, can't comment, I don't know that code.
20151208 01:00:41< gfgtdf_> shadowm: i baiscly changed that code to how i think it should work, without knowing why the previous version caused that bug
20151208 01:02:06< vultraz> shadowm: ok, if we're doing a release by friday I want to get this key stuff settled
20151208 01:02:12< vultraz> shadowm: what say you on display_name?
20151208 01:04:27< shadowm> I already told you why you shouldn't ask me.
20151208 01:06:16< gfgtdf_> vultraz: you should then also fix LoW scenario2 which was broken due to teamname change
20151208 01:06:38< vultraz> gfgtdf_: ok
20151208 01:06:48< vultraz> I'm just going to go with display_name since we don't have better alternatives 
20151208 01:06:55< celticminstrel> Um.
20151208 01:07:03< celticminstrel> This is for user_team_name, yes?
20151208 01:07:23< celticminstrel> What about team_description?
20151208 01:07:39< irker480> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master c5a08251a169 / src/scripting/game_lua_kernel.cpp: Lua API: Fix location in put_unit not working as 2nd/3rd param http://git.io/vR1Uq
20151208 01:07:41< irker480> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master e88ca4bd335d / data/scenario-test.cfg: Fix deprecated use of wesnoth.put_unit in test scenario http://git.io/vR1Um
20151208 01:07:46< vultraz> I don't really like description there
20151208 01:07:49< shadowm> This is a description. It's a longer piece of text that describes a thing.
20151208 01:08:07< celticminstrel> Or team_summary?
20151208 01:08:29< shadowm> The thing is, vultraz, have you checked what mainline's usage of user_team_name is like?
20151208 01:08:52< shadowm> I already told you my opinion was kind of irrelevant because AFAICT HttT at least doesn't do it my way.
20151208 01:10:04< vultraz> in mainline there's stuff like "Mal-Ravanal’s Forces"
20151208 01:10:09< vultraz> "Tyegëa and Priestesses"
20151208 01:10:16< vultraz> "Growloff and His Pets"
20151208 01:10:17< shadowm> That's not what I meant.
20151208 01:10:25< vultraz> but also "Orcs" "Undead" "Wizards"
20151208 01:10:36< shadowm> I meant whether it's used strictly to label teams or also individual sides/sub-teams.
20151208 01:10:37< vultraz> "Malin Keshar"
20151208 01:10:44< gfgtdf_> vultraz: i dont like display_name since it doent make clear that is is teh name of teh team
20151208 01:10:44< shadowm> Sigh.
20151208 01:11:11< vultraz> gfgtdf_: it isn't really the name of the team since sides on the same team can have different names
20151208 01:11:20< gfgtdf_> vultraz: yes can
20151208 01:11:23< gfgtdf_> vultraz: but shouldnt
20151208 01:11:39< gfgtdf_> vultraz: also you sometimes a side can be multiple teams
20151208 01:11:41< shadowm> 22:47:27 <shadowm> In IfU and AtS I use it as if it were side_name.
20151208 01:11:53< vultraz> Here's a case in DiD where just that happens
20151208 01:11:55< shadowm> 22:54:55 <shadowm> side=1 Anya  side=2 Durvan  side=3 Iron Council  side=4,5,6,7,8,9 Kalari  side=10 Shaxthal (sic)
20151208 01:11:58< gfgtdf_> vultraz: and in this case you needto have a good description for that dies alliance
20151208 01:11:59< shadowm> 22:56:14 <shadowm> Except for sides 1 and 2 (team good), they are all on team evil.
20151208 01:12:01< vultraz> same team, different user_team_name
20151208 01:12:15< celticminstrel> BTW shadowm, is that fix satisfactory?
20151208 01:12:47< shadowm> celticminstrel: I don't know, I don't suppose the warnings were specific to my build anyway, and you obviously tested that commit. :p
20151208 01:12:59< celticminstrel> I didn't test it.
20151208 01:13:01< gfgtdf_> vultraz: which scenario eactly?
20151208 01:13:10< celticminstrel> But it was a trivial change.
20151208 01:13:16< vultraz> gfgtdf_: DiD S6
20151208 01:14:28< shadowm> Hm: g++ [...] -fabi-version=2 [...]
20151208 01:14:38< gfgtdf_> vultraz: i'd just change one side to match the other
20151208 01:14:42< shadowm> Why is this in my command line with scons?
20151208 01:14:59< celticminstrel> ...heh, "fabi version".
20151208 01:15:01< shadowm> I don't remember seeing it before.
20151208 01:15:06< vultraz> gfgtdf_: why? 
20151208 01:15:09< fabi> :-)
20151208 01:15:11< shadowm> "Version 2 is the version of the C++ ABI that first appeared in G++ 3.4, and was the default through G++ 4.9. "
20151208 01:15:29< celticminstrel> It's probably because clang doesn't support the newset ABI yet.
20151208 01:15:31< shadowm> Which is odd considering I'm building with GCC 5 and linking libraries built with GCC 5.
20151208 01:15:34< shadowm> I'm not using clang.
20151208 01:15:36< gfgtdf_> vultraz: becasue  think thats how user_team_name is supposed toworkbecasue thats how it works in most other scenario
20151208 01:15:43< vultraz> gfgtdf_: same teams with different user team names are common in umc 
20151208 01:16:08< vultraz> and this is why I'm suggesting display_name
20151208 01:16:17< vultraz> because sometimes it's used like the team name
20151208 01:16:18< shadowm> I've not used clang for months precisely because it can't link Debian's Boost builds, which used GCC 5 and thus expect the C++11 std::string version.
20151208 01:16:20< vultraz> sometimes it's used like a side name
20151208 01:16:29< vultraz> so display is a balance 
20151208 01:16:32< shadowm> (Which results in linker errors since clang can't resolve that.)
20151208 01:16:59< gfgtdf_> vultraz: well but thats also what the wiki says and what the mpconnect engine expects
20151208 01:17:11< celticminstrel> That's not about C++11.
20151208 01:17:12< vultraz> what does it expect?
20151208 01:17:17< shadowm> The flag doesn't come from the SCons files themselves AFAICT.
20151208 01:17:18< celticminstrel> It's the new ABI.
20151208 01:17:26< celticminstrel> (It might be related to C++14 or C++17.)
20151208 01:17:30< shadowm> celticminstrel: The C++11 std::string version.
20151208 01:17:32< gfgtdf_> vultraz: that same team_name implies me user team name
20151208 01:17:52< celticminstrel> If it was just C++11, then clang should be able to handle it.
20151208 01:17:53< vultraz> implies me?
20151208 01:18:01< gfgtdf_> same*
20151208 01:18:25< vultraz> gfgtdf_: well we have a problem then 
20151208 01:18:32< celticminstrel> Maybe you need to specify -stdlib=libc++ (for the LLVM standard lib) or -stdlib=stdlibc++ (for the GNU standard lib).
20151208 01:18:35< gfgtdf_> vultraz: why?
20151208 01:18:37< vultraz> because we can't enforce that without destroying a lot of flavor from UMC
20151208 01:18:44< celticminstrel> (On the clang command-line.)
20151208 01:18:57< gfgtdf_> vultraz: what ecaltly?
20151208 01:19:09< celticminstrel> But if it's GCC5 I think the problem is probably the ABI, not the choice of standard lib.
20151208 01:19:15< vultraz> [12:11:38]	shadowm	22:47:27 <shadowm> In IfU and AtS I use it as if it were side_name.
20151208 01:19:17< vultraz> [12:11:52]	shadowm	22:54:55 <shadowm> side=1 Anya side=2 Durvan side=3 Iron Council side=4,5,6,7,8,9 Kalari side=10 Shaxthal (sic)
20151208 01:19:19< vultraz> [12:11:56]	shadowm	22:56:14 <shadowm> Except for sides 1 and 2 (team good), they are all on team evil.
20151208 01:19:22< shadowm> celticminstrel: It's both libstdc++ and a new GCC ABI option.
20151208 01:19:31< celticminstrel> I see...
20151208 01:19:48< vultraz> he has 'good' (sides 1 and 2) and 'evil' (sides 3 - 10), but they all have different user_team_name 
20151208 01:19:51< shadowm> The primary issue is that C++11 requires a different std::string implementation from the one libstdc++ was previously using.
20151208 01:19:52< fabi> hmmm
20151208 01:20:12< shadowm> The secondary issue is that the different implementations are guarded behind compiler ABI options that clang doesn't understand.
20151208 01:23:12< fabi> Iftu needs a name for a side which is not the player nor the leader's name.
20151208 01:23:13< fabi> I have requested that from the last gsoc student who worked on the mp campaign thing.
20151208 01:23:13< fabi> And if I remember correctly 
20151208 01:23:13< fabi> he implemented that.
20151208 01:23:14< gfgtdf_> fabi: user_team_name is independent leader nameorplayer name
20151208 01:23:14< fabi> and?
20151208 01:23:15< gfgtdf_> fabi: i thought what you sid whas a comment about user team name
20151208 01:23:15< fabi> indeed
20151208 01:23:15< fabi> it was
20151208 01:23:15< vultraz> gaaaahhh
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20151208 01:23:51< shadowm> Oh I see.
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20151208 01:24:05< shadowm> -fabi-version=2 comes from the mysqlpp or whatever library's config options.
20151208 01:24:08< fabi> gfgtdf: Vultraz pointed out how iftu abuses the user_team_name to introduce names for sides.
20151208 01:24:31< shadowm> shadowm@nanacore:~/src/wesnoth% mysql_config --cxxflags
20151208 01:24:34< shadowm> -I/usr/include/mysql -g -g -fabi-version=2 -fno-omit-frame-pointer -fno-strict-aliasing
20151208 01:25:44< shadowm> Now I'm curious about the implications of the fact that this is passed for some files only.
20151208 01:26:09< vultraz> fabi: what would you have me do
20151208 01:26:42< shadowm> Or the fact that libraries that were obviously built with the newer ABI (Boost.*) are being used in the same units as libraries that require the older ABI (MySQL).
20151208 01:27:57< fabi> vultraz: I am not really sure. I thing what is currently user_team_name shouldn't be side specific.
20151208 01:28:25< fabi> s/thing/think
20151208 01:29:25< fabi> so every team has an id and a user translated name
20151208 01:29:38< fabi> plus some name for the side
20151208 01:30:20< fabi> WSL won't feature embeded unit (or better leader) creation inside what is in WML [side]
20151208 01:30:43< fabi> so I can have name inside side 
20151208 01:30:58< fabi> I would have removed the embeded unit creation in side since ages.
20151208 01:31:33< fabi> So all my proposed solutions will only lead you into bigger trouble :-)
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20151208 01:33:27< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7883 (master - 856839e : gfgtdf): The build was broken.
20151208 01:33:27< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/95438293
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20151208 01:36:34< gfgtdf> 	shadowm: did you oberve problem in wesnoth due to that issue?
20151208 01:36:36< fabi> [team] could be a tag at [scenario] toplevel
20151208 01:37:18< shadowm> gfgtdf: Nothing visible thus far, which isn't saying much since I primarily use 1.12 still. 
20151208 01:38:25< fabi> wtf
20151208 01:39:11< fabi> there is already a [team] in "StatisticalScenarioWML". It seems to describe how well a "side" did during the scenario. 
20151208 01:39:32< gfgtdf> fabi: yes whats surprising about that?
20151208 01:39:37< fabi> Sometimes Wesnoth is more confusing than the StarWars prequels.
20151208 01:40:07< celticminstrel> shadowm: The libstdc++ binary probably contains the symbols according to both the new and the old ABI.
20151208 01:40:16< fabi> gfgtdf: It is not really surprising. The codebase also confuses team with side. 
20151208 01:40:26< celticminstrel> So you can use either, as long as you're not linking with any other external libraries.
20151208 01:40:36< gfgtdf> fabi: ah right
20151208 01:40:42< gfgtdf> fabi: maybe we shoudl change that tag
20151208 01:41:04< fabi> It is not really user visible anyway.
20151208 01:41:21< shadowm> celticminstrel: But then if I have a function in unit A compiled with the old ABI that takes a std::string, and another in unit B with the new ABI that emits a std::string, what happens if A gets a std::string from B?
20151208 01:41:38< celticminstrel> Good question.
20151208 01:41:50< fabi> But if you really introduce a [team] at [scenario] then changing the stastical scenario wml team makes sense.
20151208 01:42:04< shadowm> And in this case 90% of Wesnoth is B, and some core files like game_config.o are A.
20151208 01:42:26< shadowm> It doesn't crash when displaying the game version, certainly, but it's a bit troubling to think about anyway.
20151208 01:42:29< vultraz> fabi: I do not recommend introducing team in toplevel. it's more WML and more backend
20151208 01:42:58< gfgtdf> shadowm: why shoudl game_config and other use different abis ?
20151208 01:43:06< celticminstrel> I don't know much about the details of the ABI change, but it's possible that the ABI change only affects functions, which would mean that std::string effectively contains two versions of each member function.
20151208 01:43:18< shadowm> Because game_config.o is being built with flags that allow it to be linked into wesnothd.
20151208 01:43:33< gfgtdf> shadowm: so we buidl wesnothd and wesnoth with differnt abis ?
20151208 01:43:36< shadowm> And my wesnothd build in particular has the forum user handler enabled, thus requires MySQL, and MySQL wants the old ABI.
20151208 01:43:38< celticminstrel> But if the ABI change also affected type name mangling, I think you'd get link errors.
20151208 01:44:01< gfgtdf> shadowm: i always thought MsSql was a C api
20151208 01:44:04< celticminstrel> Link errors for symbols that appear to use both ABIs.
20151208 01:44:13< shadowm> There is a C++ library.
20151208 01:45:08< fabi> vultraz: Well, I don't recommend changing WML anyway. Please fix it. I am all for stable API's now. Makes it easier to clone a not moving target.
20151208 01:45:16< gfgtdf> shadowm: and that uses sdtd::atring ?
20151208 01:45:18< shadowm> Okay, we use the C library actually? Doesn't matter, the fact is that it wants the old ABI.
20151208 01:45:36< gfgtdf> shadowm: i thought taht abi is a c++ specific thing ?
20151208 01:45:39< celticminstrel> Yes.
20151208 01:45:52< shadowm> gfgtdf: Yes.
20151208 01:46:01< celticminstrel> The ABI is the specification of type name mangling for C++ symbols, so it shouldn't matter for a C library.
20151208 01:46:21< shadowm> Anyway, this doesn't concern the production builds _yet_, because those are made on a Debian version with an older version of GCC where the new ABI for C++11 doesn't exist yet.
20151208 01:47:40< shadowm> celticminstrel: The thing is that the new ABI does affect mangling, which is the root of clang's incompatibilities.
20151208 01:48:01< shadowm> That's not a problem here because all libraries were built with GCC, and so is wesnoth/wesnothd.
20151208 01:48:24< gfgtdf> shadowm: so why then does wesnothd require the old abi ?
20151208 01:48:25< celticminstrel> I know it affects mangling, but I don't know how it affects mangling.
20151208 01:48:34< shadowm> gfgtdf: Because MySQL wants it.
20151208 01:48:44< shadowm> 22:24:32 <shadowm> shadowm@nanacore:~/src/wesnoth% mysql_config --cxxflags
20151208 01:48:44< shadowm> 22:24:35 <shadowm> -I/usr/include/mysql -g -g -fabi-version=2 -fno-omit-frame-pointer -fno-strict-aliasing
20151208 01:49:02< shadowm> SCons uses this information to decide on the flags to use to build wesnothd and shared internal libraries.
20151208 01:49:13< gfgtdf> shadowm: sry i dont even know that commandline iterface of the compiler that i use.
20151208 01:49:20< gfgtdf> the*
20151208 01:50:14< shadowm> celticminstrel: From what I've heard, GCC 5 has a new name mangling scheme that allows you to use both ABIs somehow.
20151208 01:50:43< shadowm> I don't know the specifics, but that's what I've heard in discussions surrounding Debian's GCC 5 ABI transition in testing.
20151208 01:52:08< shadowm> The relevant clang bug in fact is titled "Add support for gcc's attribute abi_tag".
20151208 01:53:56< shadowm> "The abi_tag attribute can be applied to a function, variable, or class declaration. It modifies the mangled name of the entity to incorporate the tag name, in order to distinguish the function or class from an earlier version with a different ABI"
20151208 01:54:28< shadowm> Maybe both versions of std::string in libstdc++ contain code to handle each other.
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20151208 02:02:06< shadowm> Okay, so I can't find anything suggesting that -fabi-version and _GLIBCXX_USE_CXX11_ABI (which controls which libstdc++ ABI is used by the compiler) are connected, so they probably aren't.
20151208 02:02:57< shadowm> How the compiler and linker deal with files with different C++ ABI (not libstdc++ ABI) version is still a mystery.
20151208 02:03:43< shadowm> But AFAIU if I tried to pass std::string across _GLIBCXX_USE_CXX11_ABI boundaries I'd begin to see linker errors.
20151208 02:04:20< shadowm> Same applies to std::list, it turns out.
20151208 02:08:37< gfgtdf> shadowm: were there any changes to std::list ?
20151208 02:10:08< gfgtdf> (unless it is a std::list<std::string> ofc)
20151208 02:11:03< celticminstrel> It's not really about whether there were changes to std::list...
20151208 02:11:28< shadowm> Okay, just tested, it goes like this: main.cpp:(.text+0x18): undefined reference to `test()'
20151208 02:11:38< shadowm> It doesn't even go into details.
20151208 02:12:34< shadowm> gfgtdf: First paragraph of https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/libstdc++/manual/using_dual_abi.html .
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20151208 02:14:48< shadowm> Anyway, I'll just assume that the linker somehow can magically resolve differences between files compiled with different language (not libstdc++) ABI or it just so happens there aren't any differences relevant to our code.
20151208 02:15:40< shadowm> So I leaned absolutely nothing out of this. \o/
20151208 02:18:37< gfgtdf> im currently observing a quite bugged LoW game on wesnoth 1.12 server from people with wesnoth version < 1.12.5
20151208 02:19:01< gfgtdf> player 1 has 2 kalenz (leader) units but no carryover gold
20151208 02:19:25< gfgtdf> ofc one of teh uunits will be removed as soon as teh save is rloaded becasue tehy have teh same id
20151208 02:19:38< gfgtdf> the other player has 800 starting gold
20151208 02:20:06< gfgtdf> and the third player seems just to do nothing.
20151208 02:21:48< gfgtdf> hmm they quitted the game now.
20151208 02:21:56< fabi> cowards
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20151208 03:33:11< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/95439242
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20151208 05:30:21< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7885 (master - 9d656ad : gfgtdf): The build was broken.
20151208 05:30:21< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/95446272
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20151208 07:21:10< shadowm> shikadibot: seen mattsc
20151208 07:21:17< shadowm> shikadibot.
20151208 07:21:38< shadowm> Ugh never mind I'm decommissioning that command forever.
20151208 07:25:17< shadowm> Okay, so mattsc hasn't been on for a while but I'll try anyway.
20151208 07:25:33< shadowm> mattsc: Remember priority_target_engine.lua a.k.a. the AtS boss AI engine?
20151208 07:26:12< shadowm> I just realized that it deletes the aggression and caution aspects to replace them with new values. Except, if there are no reachable targets for the current turn, it doesn't register the new values.
20151208 07:26:49< shadowm> This means that the AI might decide to do silly crap like run away until a target gets within reach.
20151208 07:28:00< shadowm> (The aggression/caution aspects default to 0.4/0.25, which apparently causes the AI to notice it's at a serious numerical disadvantage and decide it's best to flee from my units.)
20151208 07:28:57< shadowm> Not sure what to do about this other than ensure the player units are always within the AI's reach.
20151208 07:29:49< shadowm> (This had never been an issue in AtS E3S9 and E3S10, the first scenarios to use the engine. IftU S7, OTOH, consistently triggers this corner case if the player attempts to be smart.)
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20151208 07:39:21< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7886 (master - a9f141c : gfgtdf): The build was broken.
20151208 07:39:21< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/95447911
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20151208 08:21:42< Aginor> evening
20151208 08:23:01< vultraz> evening
20151208 08:26:59< shadowm> Ivanovic: So maybe you should ask staff again for Aginor's cloak?
20151208 08:27:54< shadowm> Assuming you are even there/have time. I told you you just have to ask them to add me as delegate otherwise.
20151208 08:27:58< zookeeper> here's an idea: instead of fussing over that team_name/user_team_name renaming endlessly, how about just leaving it as-is and spending the effort on something that will, you know, improve the game in some way?
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20151208 08:29:18< shadowm> If you want my opinion, I'd certainly prefer that to seeking (all inevitably problematic) solutions to a small non-issue that doesn't inconvenience anybody.
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20151208 08:31:28< shadowm> I.e. the "if it isn't broken, don't fix it (especially if you'll actually have to break it in the process)" principle.
20151208 08:32:06< shadowm> It's perfectly reasonable to want to look into the issue if you are going to replace all WML with a new language, but since that isn't the case here...
20151208 08:32:21< shadowm> (Yet.)
20151208 08:32:45< zookeeper> exactly
20151208 08:34:47< Aginor> )avascript=
20151208 08:34:51< Aginor> umm
20151208 08:35:01< Aginor> (javascript)
20151208 08:35:15< Aginor> that's what changing keyboard mapping does to me
20151208 08:38:01< shadowm> Also, in case it isn't obvious, this means that the change needs to be reverted before 1.13.2 if you can't come up with a reasonable solution.
20151208 08:38:49< shadowm> Preferably I'd revert it unconditionally since I don't think there is a reasonable solution that doesn't inconvenience at least one segment of the audience.
20151208 08:46:00< vultraz> I'm not sure how it inconveniences either side 
20151208 08:46:23< vultraz> We're literally debating over what a key should be called because some people use it like this and some use it like that
20151208 08:46:48< vultraz> I give you a solution that satisfies both
20151208 08:56:29< zookeeper> some people use it like what? are you saying that some people are confused about what the keys do, and thus use them conceptually wrongly?
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20151208 09:00:08< vultraz> zookeeper: gfgtdf is arguing that people should not use different user_team_names for sides on the same team, even though it's allowed
20151208 09:00:34< vultraz> and he further suggests changing all instances of such behavior in mainline to 'same team same utn
20151208 09:00:35< zookeeper> makes sense
20151208 09:00:50< zookeeper> yes, agreed
20151208 09:02:58< vultraz> I disagree
20151208 09:03:00< vultraz> very much
20151208 09:04:35< zookeeper> for example in what case?
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20151208 09:43:50< vultraz> zookeeper: in mainline?
20151208 09:44:15< zookeeper> yes
20151208 10:00:25< vultraz> zookeeper: one instance is in DiD S6
20151208 10:04:44< zookeeper> guardsmen/defenders?
20151208 10:05:13< zookeeper> why should those have a different utn?
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20151208 10:06:59< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7887 (master - 31ae13d : gfgtdf): The build was broken.
20151208 10:06:59< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/95475380
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20151208 10:07:09< vultraz> in this case it could be changed
20151208 10:07:19< vultraz> but in umc cases it shouldn't be
20151208 10:07:30< vultraz> and perhaps other mainline ones, I haven;'t checked
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20151208 10:13:44< zookeeper> well i was agreeing with the mainline suggestion, whether someone makes silly things in UMC-land isn't really my concern
20151208 10:15:40< vultraz> but why should it be so in mainline?
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20151208 10:18:03< zookeeper> because the utn is the only explicit clue which usually tells you that two or more sides are allied
20151208 10:19:07< zookeeper> i mean usually the story makes it pretty obvious and if they have units close to each other you can see it in them not ZoC-blocking each other
20151208 10:19:33< zookeeper> but other than that, the team names in the status table are the only thing which can specify that
20151208 10:21:59< zookeeper> i'm not saying that there couldn't still be exceptions if there was a particularly good reason, but two sides which are obviously 100% allied with each other should have the same utn
20151208 10:27:55< vultraz> ok, that aside
20151208 10:28:09< vultraz> that still doesn't mean we can't call it 'display_name'
20151208 10:28:17< vultraz> except gfgtdf says that doesn't make it clear it's the team name
20151208 10:28:19< vultraz> : |
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20151208 12:33:44< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/95482482
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20151208 13:52:29< irker388> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 442a2292a2ca / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: fixup removal of [side]name= http://git.io/vRyeZ
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20151208 15:06:30< gfgtdf> vultraz: the column in the sides overwuiew window that prints user_team_name is also titled 'Team' so at least oin that window its not used at the name of the side but as teh name of the team.
20151208 15:09:32< gfgtdf> i wondere whether its worth in mainline to support a syntax like [set_variable] rand="3*Bowman,4*Spearman" which woudl then be rquivalent to [set_variable] rand="Bowman,Bowman,Bowman,Spearman,Spearman,Spearman,Spearman"
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20151208 15:16:30< zookeeper> i doubt it. it might have a hypothetical use here and there, but personally i don't recall ever having problems with the random syntax. it's one of those things that have been very nice and versatile from the beginning.
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20151208 15:38:25< gfgtdf> zookeeper: the reason is that i have seen statements liek this: http://pastebin.com/cd2V20CE (yes this is a 100kb rand expression) in addons.
20151208 15:39:40< gfgtdf> zookeeper: other addon like loti split the rand in different rands liek {VARIABLE_OP v1 rand "1,1,1,2"} if v1 == 2 then {VARIABLE_OP v1 rand "2,2,3"} which isnt that pretty eigher
20151208 15:39:47< zookeeper> erm...
20151208 15:40:44< zookeeper> obviously i can't be absolutely certain, but i'm pretty willing to chalk that up to "dumb programming" (as long as the author sees it as a problem, that is; maybe it's not a problem for them)
20151208 15:41:54< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm are you taking about teh first code i poasted or about both ?
20151208 15:41:57< zookeeper> first
20151208 15:44:15< zookeeper> that someone has written a random string like that is in my mind no reason to assume that there's something missing from the random feature
20151208 15:44:53< zookeeper> can't assume that based on one extremely fringe UMC snippet
20151208 15:46:23< gfgtdf> zookeeper: well that was the most extreme example i found in the addons i have installed, and maybe it doesnt realy make sense, but for example this code http://pastebin.com/XckiFv8Z is taken from a code that created may randon poickupable items or a random type, i don't see how i could do it better.
20151208 15:46:59< gfgtdf> (none of those addon are made by me)
20151208 15:48:42< zookeeper> well, firstly i don't think that's bad code as such. it's not hard to modify and it's extremely simple to understand. it just looks ugly, i think.
20151208 15:49:19< zookeeper> secondly, well, you could have each item specify how many times its index should be included in the random string, and then iterate over the item array and build the random string dynamically
20151208 15:51:36< gfgtdf> zookeeper: that is more or less the same as the dev as implementing the n* syntax on its own in lua defined tag.
20151208 15:53:41< zookeeper> except that the dev then has to maintain that feature forever with countless people depending on it to work? :p
20151208 15:54:49< zookeeper> if you feel strongly that it should be added and you can do it in a simple way, then fine, i guess?
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20151208 16:34:21< irker388> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master d3652e1b6d4b / src/ (saved_game.cpp saved_game.hpp): add [resource] tag simlar to mp modifications. http://git.io/vRSkE
20151208 16:34:23< irker388> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master d4f35d718adb / src/ (saved_game.cpp saved_game.hpp): Merge pull request #401 from gfgtdf/wml_resources http://git.io/vRSku
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20151208 18:13:19< irker388> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 21fc9d93d00b / src/formula.cpp: add comment http://git.io/vRSNL
20151208 18:13:21< irker388> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 0769824821ea / src/ (saved_game.cpp saved_game.hpp): fix [load_resource] tag http://git.io/vRSNt
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20151208 22:56:02< aquileia> shadowm: I think seen is the most used feature of shikadibot, so it'd be a shame to lose it... but it's your call
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20151208 23:58:51< gfgtdf> are there already plans on how tegh sutomatic updater shoudl work?
20151208 23:59:17< gfgtdf> does wesnoth then ship with an updater.exe or something which is always called when tehre isa  newwer version ?
20151208 23:59:33< celticminstrel> I thought the updater was supposed to be an alternate download.
20151208 23:59:57< celticminstrel> So if you know you're only one version behind, you can download the updater instead of the installer.
--- Log closed Wed Dec 09 00:00:29 2015