--- Log opened Mon Dec 14 00:00:48 2015
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20151214 01:48:07< celticminstrel> stephenhl: I don't know all the details, but I think a redesign is already in progress. shadowm posted a preview a day or two ago, so you could check the logs if you're interested.
20151214 01:59:36< gfgtdf> vultraz: do you know why 'Delfadors Memoirs' and 'Northern Rebirth' hhave th 80% carryover system ?
20151214 02:00:00< vultraz> AFAIK they were just never updated to the new 40% system
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20151214 03:44:59< pydsigner> Takes balancing
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20151214 04:49:13< Aginor> gfgtdf: Yes, that's probably quite outside my comfort zone
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20151214 05:14:32< celticminstrel> I wonder if he noticed that I responded to him.
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20151214 07:17:05< zookeeper> gfgtdf, at the time when i was updating campaigns to the new carryover system, DM was maintained by someone else who IIRC didn't want such a balance change, and NR i just didn't want to mess with because it was an unfamiliar campaign to me and apparently with pretty unusual gold amounts and such so it would have likely required rebalancing.
20151214 07:31:31< vultraz> well since I've messed with NR's gold already
20151214 07:31:46< vultraz> BRING ON THE CHANGES :D
20151214 07:37:11< zookeeper> want to maintain it, perhaps? :>
20151214 07:38:16< vultraz> Aren't I already?
20151214 07:40:15< vultraz> I mean, I haven't done much work on it recently
20151214 07:40:19< vultraz> But i've been doing other stuff
20151214 07:40:25< vultraz> (like deprecating WML :3 )
20151214 07:41:20< zookeeper> oh, wait, yes you are
20151214 07:41:24< zookeeper> i didn't remember
20151214 07:42:34< zookeeper> so yeah, converting that to the "new" system would be good
20151214 07:44:39< zookeeper> better 7 years late than never :>
20151214 07:44:51< vultraz> heh
20151214 07:45:06< vultraz> sadly, we can't rename NEW_GOLD_CARRYOVER to just... GOLD_CARRYOVER
20151214 07:47:15< zookeeper> yeah, there's a tendency for things labeled new to continue to be called new even after they no longer are :p
20151214 07:47:52< zookeeper> so, uh, will you do the conversion or..?
20151214 07:48:49< vultraz> yes I'm adding  {NEW_GOLD_CARRYOVER 40} to NR now
20151214 07:48:56< zookeeper> great
20151214 07:49:27< zookeeper> i could do it for DM if someone is willing to play through it afterwards
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20151214 07:56:36< celticminstrel> You could slowly phase in a change.
20151214 07:57:12< vultraz> tfw you almost accidentally push all your PR commits to master because you were too lazy to use a different branch :|
20151214 07:57:15< vultraz> *almost*
20151214 07:57:30< zookeeper> celticminstrel, uh..?
20151214 07:57:35< celticminstrel> Rename GOLD_CARRYOVER to OLD_GOLD_CARRYOVER and then add GOLD_CARRYOVER which just aliases to OLD_GOLD_CARRYOVER. And then, eventually, change GOLD_CARRYOVER to alias to NEW_GOLD_CARRYOVER (and let people know, of course). And finally remove NEW_GOLD_CARRYOVER.
20151214 07:57:46< zookeeper> well, yes
20151214 08:00:10< zookeeper> but i don't really see a problem with calling it "new". both carryover methods need a name, and new and old are as pretty much as good as any.
20151214 08:00:47< vultraz> ok hope this works..
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20151214 08:01:01< irker769> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master b0a302b8d8ae / data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/ (15 files): NR: convert gold carryover to 'new' 40% value http://git.io/v08ve
20151214 08:01:15 * celticminstrel shrugs.
20151214 08:01:21< celticminstrel> It doesn't really matter that much, yeah.
20151214 08:01:22< vultraz> cinch 
20151214 08:01:41< celticminstrel> Might become a problem if later you have an even newer gold carryover method.
20151214 08:03:52< zookeeper> well, it'll be no harder to deal with then
20151214 08:06:07< fabi> ÜBERNEW_GOLD_CARRYOVER
20151214 08:06:43< vultraz> lmao
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20151214 08:12:09< celticminstrel> Pfft.
20151214 08:18:35< vultraz> zookeeper: we should really try to reach a consensus on this color key thing
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20151214 08:23:21< vultraz> we agree to add a color= key
20151214 08:23:35< vultraz> the question is whether we should deprecate red,green,blue in the process
20151214 08:24:42< fabi> vultraz: Just caling it color is bad. the key should hint about what arguements it expects. 
20151214 08:24:49< fabi> so color_rgb=
20151214 08:25:23< vultraz> zookeeper: ^ thoughts? 
20151214 08:25:51< fabi> the red,green,blue syntax is more error proof.
20151214 08:26:47< fabi> has anyone yet raised the option to make it [color] red= green= blue=
20151214 08:26:51< zookeeper> if you absolutely must add a color= key, then the only way i'm fine with that is if you internally convert red,green,blue to it without deprecation warnings
20151214 08:27:11< zookeeper> also "rgb" won't do if it's supposed to also have alpha
20151214 08:27:56< fabi> you might also want to refer to a predefined color
20151214 08:28:09< vultraz> zookeeper: I can do that
20151214 08:29:01< zookeeper> true, it _might_ be nice if color= could also use TC's by name. would be really rarely used, but might make sense.
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20151214 08:30:25< celmin|sleep> Before I sleep...
20151214 08:30:27< vultraz> zookeeper: however, color= will take precedence 
20151214 08:30:34< zookeeper> vultraz, sure, that's fine
20151214 08:31:22< celmin|sleep> 1) I don't like color_rgb. The only advantage in my opinion of changing to color= is that you could then patch in support for other color formats. For example, "color=1,2,3" is RGB, but then you could add support for something like "color=rgb(1,2,3)" and "color=hsv(1,2,3)" and so forth.
20151214 08:32:43< celmin|sleep> 2) I can sort of see how red,green,blue might be a bit more error-proof, but RGB is kind of the main way of specifying colours, so it doesn't seem that much of an issue to me. The advantage in my opinion of red,green,blue is that you can, if you so choose, put the attributes on separate lines.
20151214 08:33:14< vultraz> That's really neither here nor there
20151214 08:33:34< celmin|sleep> 3) As far as I can see, there's no an advantage of a [color] tag relative to a color= attribute.
20151214 08:34:12< celmin|sleep> 4) I don't think it should have alpha. If alpha is desired, I think it would be better to use a separate opacity= key.
20151214 08:37:08< zookeeper> if alpha is added then IMO it should definitely go as the alpha component to color=
20151214 08:38:38< zookeeper> the most useful alternative color format that color= could support would be the hex-based ones, since those are used for TC etc.
20151214 08:39:15< zookeeper> and it should be pretty simple syntax-wise, just use # as the identifier as usual
20151214 08:39:22< zookeeper> err....
20151214 08:39:25< zookeeper> except # is a comment -.-
20151214 08:39:48< zookeeper> i presume # works inside a string though
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20151214 15:42:28< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i actually thought the if it was with the old carryover system for example possible to get 0-200 extra gold and with the new gold carryover possible to get 20-100 extra gold that then there shouldn an rebalancings needed.
20151214 15:45:45< zookeeper> sure, but i don't know whether that's the case. i mean, it _should_ be the case that all scenarios are winnable with minimum gold, which would mean that old carryover scenarios automatically work with new carryover too (and at worst case being a bit easier).
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20151214 15:46:33< irker596> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 811aeeffad64 / src/game_events/action_wml.cpp: fix OOS caused by [replace_map] map_file=... http://git.io/v0BKb
20151214 15:46:33< irker596> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 1aea4da8cf4d / src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Attempt to fix broken [event] in [unit_type] http://git.io/v0BKN
20151214 15:46:34< irker596> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 1d7efd019d98 / src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Revert "initialize wml menu item handlers when they are set, not in ctor" http://git.io/v0BKx
20151214 15:46:35< irker596> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 222de8124b0c / src/game_events/ (6 files): Revert "fixup wml menu items: track the lifetime of the manager" http://git.io/v0BKh
20151214 15:46:36< irker596> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master be80269e8369 / src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fix possible assertion failure in gamestate initialisation http://git.io/v0BKj
20151214 15:46:41< zookeeper> but i wouldn't be surprised if some scenarios require substantial old-carryover gold, in which case new-carryover gold might not be enough, or might make the scenario a lot harder.
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20151214 16:08:47< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7935 (master - be80269 : gfgtdf): The build was broken.
20151214 16:08:47< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/96767905
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20151214 16:17:46< irker596> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master ac374909a39e / src/game_state.cpp: remove unused function http://git.io/v0Re0
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20151214 16:58:15< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7936 (master - ac37490 : gfgtdf): The build was fixed.
20151214 16:58:15< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/96775540
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 15 00:00:53 2015