--- Log opened Thu Dec 17 00:00:15 2015
--- Day changed Thu Dec 17 2015
20151217 00:00:15< Askarii> most of the contribution guides are related to the actual game's code-base, so it's hard to have any idea where I could pick things up.
20151217 00:01:13-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x50abe5dd.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 00:02:31< zookeeper> yeah, as said i don't really know. of course one could write some new utilities in it.
20151217 00:07:16< zookeeper> when shadowm is around again he might be able to tell whether there's some help needed on the forums where some javascript is apparently used.
20151217 00:08:58< Askarii> thx zookeeper 
20151217 00:09:09< Askarii> I'll stick around in hopes of crossing him
20151217 00:09:48< zookeeper> like, writing/managing some phpbb extensions or whatever they're called.
20151217 00:10:27-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20151217 00:11:11-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@x4db5286e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20151217 00:12:25-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 00:12:30-!- iceiceice [~chris@wesnoth/developer/iceiceice] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20151217 00:18:47< shadowm> Askarii: Not urgently or for anything terribly important, I'm afraid. The forum and wiki applications aren't maintained in-house, so they are pretty low maintenance by themselves.
20151217 00:19:43< shadowm> The units.wesnoth.org and add-ons.wesnoth.org (website version) subsites do leave a lot to be desired, though, but we don't maintain formal to-do lists for them.
20151217 00:21:28< shadowm> And in units.wesnoth.org's case, most of its issues are actually on the backend side.
20151217 00:22:04< celticminstrel> Even so, I think a rewrite of the units.wesnoth.org frontend would be nice to have too.
20151217 00:22:15< zookeeper> also ancestral has done stuff like http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=36714 and http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=29138 so maybe there's room for collaboration and/or further development there (and maybe making them official parts of the website if completed)
20151217 00:22:21< celticminstrel> If that interests you, I'd suggest talking to ancestral.
20151217 00:22:28< shadowm> That's not to say it wouldn't be great if anyone came up with new ideas to improve our existing infrastructure, yeah.
20151217 00:22:30< celticminstrel> ...and zookeeper ninja'd me.
20151217 00:22:36-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@119.104.11.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20151217 00:23:32< shadowm> It's just an extremely nebulous area to work on if it's your first time playing Wesnoth or using wesnoth.org's services.
20151217 00:24:54< shadowm> (For reference, the forums run phpBB 3.0 and the wiki runs MediaWiki 1.23, hence most of the maintenance workload is either grunt system admin type stuff, or done upstream.)
20151217 00:26:26< zookeeper> there's also the ladder ( http://wesnoth.gamingladder.info/ ) which may or may not need any javascript expertise, i don't know
20151217 00:26:54< shadowm> Oh, right, but the ladder isn't official because you people are allergic to having your gameplay performance rated or something.
20151217 00:26:57< shadowm> :p
20151217 00:28:18< zookeeper> i just want there to be as little proof as possible when i lose to newbies when i play a match once a year
20151217 00:28:46< celticminstrel> When I play it's for fun, not competition.
20151217 00:28:53< Askarii> back
20151217 00:28:54-!- irker441 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 00:28:54< irker441> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 3b9a0fdb15a5 / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: fix bonus=yes/no in [endlevel] http://git.io/v0yLw
20151217 00:28:59< celticminstrel> So the ladder doesn't interest me at all.
20151217 00:29:20 * zookeeper drops
20151217 00:30:03< celticminstrel> Though usually I play campaigns, not multiplayer.
20151217 00:30:21< Askarii> ladder, eh
20151217 00:30:22< celticminstrel> Oh wow, that bug is amazing.
20151217 00:32:28< Askarii> wesnoth canvas seems dead
20151217 00:33:49< Askarii> there could be the units.wesnoth.org
20151217 00:33:53-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20151217 00:34:25< Askarii> as celticminstrel put it
20151217 00:36:37< shadowm> celticminstrel: I meant the devs who actually play MP.
20151217 00:36:56< celticminstrel> Fair enough.
20151217 00:37:04< shadowm> Back in the day, anyway. Now I don't think we have any.
20151217 00:37:10< celticminstrel> It's not like I don't play MP, but not enough to matter, I guess.
20151217 00:37:24< Askarii> back in the day
20151217 00:37:27< shadowm> That didn't occur to me before, we need more developers who actually understand the needs of the crazy MP people.
20151217 00:37:32< Askarii> sounds like when I used to play Utopia
20151217 00:37:47< Askarii> how many players do you have, exactly?
20151217 00:38:01< shadowm> And/or MP-oriented non-developers with a technical mindset.
20151217 00:38:23< shadowm> Askarii: Eh, depends. I think we tend to get over a hundred people connected to the official stable server on weekends during peak hours.
20151217 00:38:49< shadowm> Years ago that was more over 200.
20151217 00:38:58< Askarii> that's still decent
20151217 00:39:29< Askarii> does the game log any "local" players?
20151217 00:39:52< shadowm> If you mean whether we get to find out about people playing on a LAN or single-player, no.
20151217 00:39:59< Askarii> kk
20151217 00:40:06< Askarii> and yes, thats what i meant.,
20151217 00:42:30< shadowm> It's a bit limiting, but on the other hand, back when we had something vaguely resembling player tracking people would either turn it off or repeatedly post complaints about removing it/disabling it by default.
20151217 00:44:56< Askarii> so the best estimate would be downloads of the game packages
20151217 00:46:13< shadowm> Yep.
20151217 00:47:04< shadowm> And that still doesn't cover all -- in particular, most Linux users won't be counted because they'll download binaries from their distribution's channels.
20151217 00:48:01< gfgtdf> well i trhink the main complain about that tracking was the plan (dont rmember exactly by who) to track which games were plated and how long.
20151217 00:48:33< gfgtdf> also as soon as we have the autpmatic updater this will also give us more data.
20151217 00:48:52< shadowm> From Windows users, which we already track via SF.net download counts.
20151217 00:50:14< shadowm> OTOH I guess there's the point about people being too lazy to update.
20151217 00:52:38< shadowm> I can't blame them, I'd also put off downloading 0.4 GiB on a game I only play every two weekends. :p
20151217 00:53:45< Askarii> haha
20151217 00:53:48< Askarii> good point
20151217 01:05:42-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-167-141-207.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 01:05:43< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7956 (master - 3b9a0fd : gfgtdf): The build passed.
20151217 01:05:43< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/97350255
20151217 01:05:43-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-167-141-207.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20151217 01:11:48-!- Askarii [~Askarii@206-248-175-248.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20151217 01:16:22-!- iceiceice [~chris@wesnoth/developer/iceiceice] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 01:26:59-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20151217 01:34:45-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 01:35:47-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD119104011122.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 01:53:02-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 01:53:25< shadowm> Hi vultraz.
20151217 01:53:58< shadowm> What do you think of the Windows installer side picture banner thingy? Will it be enough to update it with the new graphics, or should we ask artists to make something different?
20151217 01:54:21< loonycyborg> shadowm: seems it requires bmp and only bmp. It uses winapi LoadImage function
20151217 01:54:49< loonycyborg> shouldn't matter though since I can just use imagemagick to convert :/
20151217 01:54:51< shadowm> Oh, okay, I know the Windows API only supports BMP, makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that NSIS is so primitive.
20151217 01:55:11< shadowm> :I
20151217 01:55:29< loonycyborg> hmm and how would they support other image formats?
20151217 01:55:52< loonycyborg> embedding freeimage or devIL?
20151217 01:56:01< vultraz> I think it needs a new graphic
20151217 01:56:03< shadowm> Touché.
20151217 01:56:15< shadowm> vultraz: Elaborate, please.
20151217 01:56:56< vultraz> just the same thing (logo over map) but with the new graphics would be fine
20151217 01:57:15< shadowm> Okay, so you didn't actually take two seconds to read my question properly.
20151217 01:57:25< shadowm> I'm starting to notice a pattern here.
20151217 01:57:55< vultraz> you asked if it would be enough to update it with new graphics
20151217 01:58:00< vultraz> or if we should make something different
20151217 01:58:08< vultraz> unless I misunderstood what different means
20151217 01:58:34< shadowm> Different means different.
20151217 01:59:30< shadowm> "Will it be enough to update it with the new graphics?" Turns out your answer was yes, after asking you to elaborate on an answer that seemed to suggest the alternative ("should we ask artists to make something different?").
20151217 02:00:01< vultraz> No, no, I thought that meant a completely new splash screen 
20151217 02:00:13< vultraz> drawn specifically for this
20151217 02:00:16< shadowm> It's not a splash screen. There isn't a splash screen in the installer.
20151217 02:00:27< vultraz> sidebar screen
20151217 02:00:29< vultraz> gah
20151217 02:00:34< shadowm> Picture, not screen.
20151217 02:00:36< shadowm> And yes, something designed from scratch was the alternative.
20151217 02:00:49< shadowm> "Something different".
20151217 02:01:04< shadowm> As opposed to "(the same thing) with the new graphics".
20151217 02:01:45< shadowm> Okay, as I said earlier, I can do it, it's a trivial copy and paste job.
20151217 02:01:59< vultraz> Yes, I am supporting the same thing with new graphics
20151217 02:02:27< vultraz> if we get a fancier installer than NSIS, we can worry about it then
20151217 02:02:38< vultraz> s/it/a new thing from scratch
20151217 02:02:43< shadowm> We don't really need fancier for this.
20151217 02:02:58< shadowm> The installer isn't the sales pitch. It's a thing you see once and then completely forget about it forever.
20151217 02:03:09< vultraz> True
20151217 02:03:24< vultraz> Plus if we switch to steam we won't even need it
20151217 02:03:24< shadowm> And that's _after_ you've already spent half of your traffic quota on a stupid weekend game.
20151217 02:06:27-!- iceiceice [~chris@wesnoth/developer/iceiceice] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20151217 02:08:08< shadowm> Yes, we will still need it because we aren't switching to Steam.
20151217 02:08:21< shadowm> We are adding Steam as a distribution channel.
20151217 02:08:34< vultraz> Oh, ok
20151217 02:09:00< celticminstrel> Switching to Steam would alienate a significant chunk of the userbase.
20151217 02:09:56< vultraz> I didn't think of this
20151217 02:11:24< shadowm> Someone tell me where the current world map sources live.
20151217 02:11:48< vultraz> Eh?
20151217 02:12:02< shadowm> Someone tell me where to find the sources for the current world map picture.
20151217 02:15:19< shadowm> Or did zookeeper not upload them?
20151217 02:20:02< shadowm> Groan okay I'll just use the production copy with those pesky labels all over the place.
20151217 02:34:40-!- gfgtdf_ [~chatzilla@f054138048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 02:36:15-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x50abe5dd.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20151217 02:36:20-!- gfgtdf_ is now known as gfgtdf
20151217 02:43:47< shadowm> loonycyborg: Oh, also, you'll probably be needed here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=591553#p591553
20151217 02:46:51< shadowm> lol Microsoft is nagging me about updating to Windows 10 and the app keeps saying I can't because the graphics controller driver is "incompatible". What's the point then?
20151217 02:49:40-!- artisticdude [~Ben@BYOD-NATout-129-174-182-105.byod.gmu.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 02:49:50< vultraz> oh hey it's artisticdude 
20151217 02:50:11< artisticdude> Hi all, long time no see
20151217 02:50:21< vultraz> true dat
20151217 02:50:39< shadowm> Hi.
20151217 02:51:02< artisticdude> I’m making a comeback though, so I thought I’d drop by and get back into the active swing of things.
20151217 02:51:05< artisticdude> Hey shadowm
20151217 02:51:35< vultraz> comeback?
20151217 02:52:14< artisticdude> Well, as in doing more than simply lurking on the forums, which has been the extent of my involvement for the past couple years.
20151217 02:52:27< vultraz> Ah
20151217 02:53:53< artisticdude> I’m looking to contribute to the codebase eventually, but it’s been so long since I looked at it that I’m having to read through it all over again, particularly since so much has changed.
20151217 02:54:45< shadowm> Huh, I didn't think of that as a potential torture method. I'll make sure to add it to the list specially reserved for defectors.
20151217 02:55:16< shadowm> It's certainly cheaper than the other things I had in mind.
20151217 02:55:38< artisticdude> 10/10 would recommend.
20151217 02:56:40< vultraz> :P
20151217 02:58:25< celticminstrel> Heh.
20151217 02:58:52< artisticdude> I want to get back to pixel art too, but my tablet decided to put itself out of its misery a while back, which has effectively stymied my artistic inclinations since then.
20151217 03:00:54< gfgtdf> vultraz: did you see my comment about the Loadgame dialog ?
20151217 03:01:17< vultraz> gfgtdf: which one?
20151217 03:01:25< gfgtdf> vultraz: about borken replays
20151217 03:01:28< gfgtdf> broken*
20151217 03:01:37< vultraz> no i did not
20151217 03:01:51< gfgtdf> vultraz: replays are broken with the new loadgame dialog
20151217 03:02:01< shadowm> tfw I save a file and can't find it afterwards.
20151217 03:02:15< gfgtdf> vultraz: replay-saves that are the replays that saves at the end of the scenario
20151217 03:02:26< vultraz> yes
20151217 03:02:35< vultraz> and?
20151217 03:02:43< vultraz> the do appear in the list...
20151217 03:02:46< gfgtdf> vultraz: 1.13.2 doent notice that they are replays, tries to open them as normal saves and crashes
20151217 03:02:51-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 03:03:25-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:03:54< gfgtdf> vultraz: 1.13.2 doent notice that they are replays, tries to open them as normal saves and crashes
20151217 03:03:55< vultraz> gfgtdf: hm
20151217 03:04:22-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 03:04:39-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:04:46< gfgtdf> vultraz: that's tis line on the old code: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/1.12/src/dialogs.cpp#L954
20151217 03:05:27< gfgtdf> vultraz: but i think it would be even better if the show_replay chackbux was always checked and untoggelable for these saves
20151217 03:05:33< gfgtdf> checkbox
20151217 03:05:59< vultraz> gfgtdf: im getting an assertion failure at replay.cpp:642
20151217 03:06:08< gfgtdf> vultraz: yes
20151217 03:06:53< gfgtdf> vultraz: and you don't get that assertion failure of you check the show_replay checkbox in the loadgame dialog.
20151217 03:06:57< gfgtdf> if*
20151217 03:07:43< shadowm>  Oh man screw Dropbox.
20151217 03:08:02< vultraz> gfgtdf: do we have an is_replay() function?
20151217 03:08:06< shadowm> It made me use Flash to copy a link to clipboard, Flash then proceeded to crash my browser.
20151217 03:08:28< shadowm> Well, not really crash, just freeze at 100% CPU.
20151217 03:08:33< gfgtdf> vultraz: we have this check: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/gui/dialogs/game_load.cpp#L358
20151217 03:08:55-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20151217 03:09:03< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/branding-installer-banner-blur.png
20151217 03:09:08< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/branding-installer-banner-no-blur.png
20151217 03:09:50< shadowm> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/master/packaging/windows/WindowsInstallerGraphic.bmp
20151217 03:10:15-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:10:48< gfgtdf> shadowm: are you asking us for our opinion whether we prefer blur or no-blur on those images?
20151217 03:10:59< shadowm> Yes.
20151217 03:11:20< vultraz> I'd say none
20151217 03:11:25< vultraz> That blur effect is weird
20151217 03:12:18< shadowm> Opinions on the layout?
20151217 03:12:54< shadowm> Use this one instead, the other version is a bit crooked: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/branding-installer-banner-no-blur-fixed.png
20151217 03:13:25< vultraz> layout fine
20151217 03:13:32< vultraz> the logo looks a tad off for some reason...
20151217 03:13:55< gfgtdf> shadowm: whats the reson for choosing a land part insted of a coast part like its done previously`?
20151217 03:15:04-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-163-129.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:15:18< shadowm> The annoying compass thingy gets in the way
20151217 03:15:43< shadowm> I could try again now that I downscaled it though.
20151217 03:16:07< gfgtdf> shadowm: you you have a plan on changing the wesnoth version number format?
20151217 03:17:04< shadowm> <shadowm> I reserve the rights to change the version number format at any point in a development series.
20151217 03:17:12< shadowm> Paraphrasing from a couple of months ago.
20151217 03:17:47< gfgtdf> i think the leading 1 is annyoing
20151217 03:17:50< shadowm> I'd say "probably won't happen" just for the sake of not confusing people, but I'd also prefer if tools didn't make stupid assumptions about version numbers.
20151217 03:17:54< gfgtdf> also it limits us to 2 version numbers
20151217 03:18:03< shadowm> For example, some software broke when Linux 3.0 was released.
20151217 03:20:11< shadowm> Hm, displaying the coastline without making the cropping weird is truly a daunting task.
20151217 03:20:36< shadowm> Either the compass thing shows up, or text gets cut off in parts.
20151217 03:20:56< shadowm> And at the scale I was using, the map edge gets in the way as well.
20151217 03:24:29< shadowm> Here's like the next best thing: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/branding-installer-banner-24.png
20151217 03:25:02< vultraz> again, why does the logo look off
20151217 03:25:18< shadowm> You tell me.
20151217 03:25:18-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 03:26:14-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:26:21< shadowm> Reboot your router.
20151217 03:26:57< shadowm> Example rendering with (approximately) the same layout as the previous version: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/branding-installer-banner-26.png
20151217 03:28:08-!- iceiceice [~chris@ip24-250-23-28.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:28:08-!- iceiceice [~chris@ip24-250-23-28.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host]
20151217 03:28:08-!- iceiceice [~chris@wesnoth/developer/iceiceice] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:29:09-!- irker441 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20151217 03:35:51-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 03:36:24-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:39:39-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 03:39:59-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 03:41:58< vultraz> shadowm: is it not possible to set a button to focused from a dialog? :/
20151217 03:46:29< shadowm> GUI1 and GUI2 buttons don't have "focus".
20151217 03:47:16< shadowm> The closest thing is the mouse over/down states, which aren't what's normally considered as "focus" by the rest of the world.
20151217 03:47:21< vultraz> I want to set this checkbox to checked
20151217 03:47:24< vultraz> what state is that
20151217 03:47:27< shadowm> Also, I'm still awaiting opinions.
20151217 03:48:11< vultraz> I prefer https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/branding-installer-banner-no-blur-fixed.png
20151217 03:48:17< vultraz> but again, the logo looks blurry
20151217 03:48:17< shadowm> set_value(true)
20151217 03:48:35< shadowm> Yeah, I didn't use Unsharp Mask after downscaling on purpose.
20151217 03:48:50< shadowm> If I did, the edges would become even more jagged than they already are.
20151217 03:49:05< vultraz> downscaling?
20151217 03:49:10< vultraz> to what size?
20151217 03:49:15< shadowm> To a size.
20151217 03:49:39< vultraz> to what size
20151217 03:49:46< shadowm> Does it matter?
20151217 03:50:49< vultraz> yes, because you could just use the renders in my dropbox
20151217 03:50:52< shadowm> Okay, it's not downscaled.
20151217 03:51:05< ancestral> vultraz: Would be handy for people with disabilities
20151217 03:51:06< shadowm> It's just that I didn't notice and left it below the lighting layer.
20151217 03:51:21< ancestral> Being able to set focus on buttons
20151217 03:51:37< shadowm> ancestral: Yeah, but vultraz isn't the right person to tell this I'm afraid. ;)
20151217 03:51:52< shadowm> Nor anyone else that's active atm, as far as I know.
20151217 03:52:16< ancestral> Oh I’m sure BFW is horrible for someone who can’t use a mouse and keyboard both
20151217 03:52:19< shadowm> But vultraz is the least adequate of all right now.
20151217 03:52:57< ancestral> vultraz the green-nosed developer?
20151217 03:54:08< shadowm> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/tree/master/src/gui/auxiliary/event
20151217 03:54:41< shadowm> We should add a warning for people to not read the files in there without consulting a therapist first.
20151217 03:55:06< ancestral> Hey, files don’t update themselves
20151217 03:55:09< ancestral> Well, actually, they could
20151217 03:55:54 * shadowm looks at the directory listing. "A year ago."
20151217 03:56:12< shadowm> Obviously, there's truth in your words. ;)
20151217 03:56:37< ancestral> I meant, not updated by a human
20151217 03:56:51< shadowm> I'm just saying, it'll be far easier for us to drop GUI2 and replace it with something externally-maintained than to keep hacking things into it when it was clearly not made for human beings.
20151217 03:57:50< ancestral> Reminds me of the thoughts I had when I tried to read how to make a theme file
20151217 03:59:12-!- artisticdude [~Ben@BYOD-NATout-129-174-182-105.byod.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: artisticdude]
20151217 04:08:31-!- irker746 [~irker@109.237.213.40] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 04:08:31< irker746> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master b52867e7d089 / data/gui/default/window/game_load.cfg src/gui/dialogs/game_load.cpp: tgame_load: remove handing of preview_pane http://git.io/v0y7f
20151217 04:08:32< irker746> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master a653c0c70c73 / src/gui/dialogs/game_load.cpp: tgame_load: always enable Show Replay if selected save is a replay http://git.io/v0y7J
20151217 04:08:44< vultraz> gfgtdf: ^
20151217 04:10:36< wedge009> shadowm: Will have a look. I think I've had enough of hot-keys, though!
20151217 04:11:49< vultraz> actually, hm, maybe I could have done that commit more cleanly 
20151217 04:15:07< vultraz> nah
20151217 04:28:10< ancestral> vultraz: Where is the icon image of the logo?
20151217 04:28:12< ancestral> Just the shield
20151217 04:28:20< ancestral> (with swords; no text)
20151217 04:29:02< vultraz> images/misc/logo-bg.png
20151217 04:29:53< ancestral> That’s not big enough
20151217 04:30:04< ancestral> I need 512x512 for the project
20151217 04:30:28< ancestral> Would be nice to drop that into the project somewhere
20151217 04:30:45< vultraz> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lncz6sp106f3fyn/AADApxh8acnBZ29F6b4G2zzIa?dl=0
20151217 04:30:48< ancestral> s/for the project/for the OS X app icon
20151217 04:31:09< ancestral> Mind if I stick it in to the repo somewhere?
20151217 04:31:25< ancestral> Also, holy versions, Batman! Which one should I be downloading?
20151217 04:31:32< ancestral> Oh nm
20151217 04:32:12< ancestral> vultraz: Is there anything special about the 2^x icons? Are they “optimized” for those sizes?
20151217 04:32:38< ancestral> In other words, should I be using the 64x64 version for the 64 pixel icon, or just let the system scale it?
20151217 04:33:48< ancestral> (scale down from 512x512)
20151217 04:37:17< vultraz> ancestral: what do you mean?
20151217 04:37:27< vultraz> honestly I haven't optimized anything
20151217 04:37:33< vultraz> it's just the logo at a bunch of resolutions
20151217 04:37:38-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054138048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151029151421]]
20151217 04:37:43< ancestral> OS X has a set of icons for 16x16, 32x32, … 512 x 512
20151217 04:38:05< vultraz> oh, I see
20151217 04:38:07< vultraz> then yes
20151217 04:38:10< ancestral> The idea is, at smaller sizes, you may choose to have a more basic icon
20151217 04:38:11< vultraz> you should use the ones I made
20151217 04:38:28< vultraz> since in order to get an optimal look I had to do two-step scaling
20151217 04:39:04< celticminstrel> It's good to fill all the sizes, I think.
20151217 04:39:08< vultraz> anything under 400x looks bad when scaled fromsomething above that
20151217 04:39:22< celticminstrel> For icns or ico, I mean.
20151217 04:39:57< celticminstrel> 16, 32, 64, 128, and 512, right?
20151217 04:40:10< ancestral> Yeah, though curiously OS X doesn’t care about 64
20151217 04:40:17< ancestral> Or at least, Icon Composer.app doesn’t
20151217 04:40:18< celticminstrel> (Not sure if ico supports that many, but you're talking about icns anyway.)
20151217 04:40:30< celticminstrel> I was pretty sure OSX did have 64.
20151217 04:40:36< ancestral> I think there’s a way to put in a 1024x1024 but I don’t care right now
20151217 04:41:12< ancestral> celticminstrel: https://img42.com/aG8qp
20151217 04:41:18< ancestral> Could be a limitation in Icon Composer
20151217 04:41:35< celticminstrel> Probably is.
20151217 04:41:36< ancestral> For all I know, you might be able to have (nearly) infinite sizes and the system interpolates between them
20151217 04:41:58< ancestral> Not a concern right now of mine
20151217 04:42:00< celticminstrel> Originally it was only 16 and 32, and then they started doubling the maximum.
20151217 04:42:06 * ancestral nods
20151217 04:42:17< celticminstrel> So it'd be strange to omit 64.
20151217 04:42:37< celticminstrel> I think I vaguely remember a version of Icon Composer that had a 64 slot.
20151217 04:43:08< celticminstrel> ico actually supports 48 as well, I believe.
20151217 04:43:14< ancestral> celticminstrel: http://stackoverflow.com/a/11661386/1458208
20151217 04:44:03< celticminstrel> Looks like img42.com is one of those sights that doesn't function when cookies are disabled.
20151217 04:44:29< celticminstrel> Huh, even the oldest version of Icon Composer I have doesn't have the 64 slot.
20151217 04:44:54< celticminstrel> Oh wait, it img42 was just slow to load because I was trying to do three things at once.
20151217 04:44:57< celticminstrel> ^-it
20151217 04:46:48< ancestral> It’s my current substitute for imgbin
20151217 04:47:00< ancestral> Maybe you folks know of better ones aside from imgur
20151217 04:47:04< celticminstrel> Hmm, I have XCode 4.6, so I guess it would support the iconset thing too.
20151217 04:47:16< ancestral> Are you running 10.10 by chance?
20151217 04:47:20< celticminstrel> 10.7
20151217 04:47:23< ancestral> Ah
20151217 04:47:34< celticminstrel> If I was running 10.10 I wouldn't be stuck on XCode 4.
20151217 04:48:13< celticminstrel> The reason I mentioned this though is that we could consider setting the XCode project up to use an iconset package.
20151217 04:48:14-!- artisticdude [~Ben@BYOD-NATout-129-174-182-105.byod.gmu.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 04:48:55< celticminstrel> Weirdly it still omits the 64x64 there, though...
20151217 04:49:15< celticminstrel> Well, technically, I guess 32x32@2 is really 64x64.
20151217 04:53:16< ancestral> Okay, I made an iconset
20151217 04:53:35< ancestral> With retina support (even though the game doesn’t really support retina resolution, at least the icon will look super pretty!!!!)
20151217 04:53:41< ancestral>  /sarcasm
20151217 04:53:56< ancestral> (but actually true)
20151217 04:54:12< ancestral> Alright, rebuild
20151217 04:58:06< ancestral> vultraz: Thoughts, cares, about putting all these icon files in the project? Else, I’ll leave it in the separate OS X package files
20151217 04:58:22< vultraz> I don't mind
20151217 04:59:21< celticminstrel> If done as a set of files (like that stackoverflow site suggested), it might be possible somehow to use the same files for the Windows ico. I don't know how though, it's likely not as straightforward as on OSX.
20151217 04:59:32< ancestral> Once I figure out the pango mess, and SDL2 gets merged, I’ll update the OS X package files with the new libs and the icon; then separately, put some of the icon images in the package
20151217 04:59:35< ancestral> repo
20151217 04:59:50< celticminstrel> New libs?
20151217 04:59:53< ancestral> celticminstrel: Probably a script could be made to do it
20151217 04:59:57< ancestral> celticminstrel: For SDL2
20151217 05:00:02< celticminstrel> Oh, right.
20151217 05:01:20< celticminstrel> If you could add the Boost unit test libs at the same time, that'd be great... though that might mean also updating the packaged version of Boost, which might be a lot of work...
20151217 05:01:36< celticminstrel> Just a thought.
20151217 05:05:39< ancestral> Boost unit test libs… okay
20151217 05:06:05< celticminstrel> I think it also depends on Chrono and something else.
20151217 05:06:32< celticminstrel> Of course it has to be the same version as the other Boost libs too.
20151217 05:06:43< celticminstrel> ...but you probably knew that.
20151217 05:09:18< vultraz> we really should work on retina support
20151217 05:09:33< ancestral> vultraz: We really need a hi-res theme
20151217 05:09:38< vultraz> indeed
20151217 05:09:51< ancestral> And/or abandon GUI2 :-P
20151217 05:09:58< vultraz> we need wesnoth 2 :P
20151217 05:10:18< celticminstrel> 9_9
20151217 05:10:53< ancestral> I wouldn’t mind some streamlined gameplay simplifications one day
20151217 05:11:03< vultraz> basically we need a new ui toolkit entirely
20151217 05:11:20< ancestral> I may have asked before, but what’s good?
20151217 05:11:33< ancestral> What could Wesnoth more easily transition to?
20151217 05:11:37< vultraz> nothing
20151217 05:11:41< vultraz> "easily"
20151217 05:11:49< ancestral> What’s worth switching to?
20151217 05:11:55< vultraz> I was considering Flat UI
20151217 05:12:12< celticminstrel> I don't think dropping GUI2 on the WML side is a good idea. Or rather, I think it's a very bad idea.
20151217 05:12:30< vultraz> why?
20151217 05:12:37< celticminstrel> That is, the format for WML descriptions of dialogs shouldn't be changed even if you change the implementation.
20151217 05:12:48< vultraz> what do you mean?
20151217 05:12:53< vultraz> ancestral: https://google.github.io/flatui/
20151217 05:14:22< celticminstrel> Minor changes are fine, of course, but... there are a large number of defined dialogs. Do you really want to have to rewrite every one from scratch? And add-on authors would have to rewrite theirs as well.
20151217 05:14:24< vultraz> celticminstrel: that wouldn't really be possible since wesnoth 2 will likely drop wml
20151217 05:14:40< vultraz> celticminstrel: wesnoth 2 will not be compatible with wesnoth 1
20151217 05:15:10< celticminstrel> I think there's no point in a wesnoth 2 that's not compatible.
20151217 05:15:16< vultraz> false
20151217 05:15:31< vultraz> if we attempt to keep compatibility we will be held back
20151217 05:15:43< celticminstrel> That's not a given.
20151217 05:15:48< vultraz> we need to start fresh
20151217 05:16:03-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: wedge009]
20151217 05:16:05< vultraz> abandon the wml paradigm altogether 
20151217 05:16:07< ancestral> All things considered, I’m with vultraz 
20151217 05:16:29< celticminstrel> Starting fresh may sound like a great idea, but it's exactly the sort of thing that destroys a project.
20151217 05:16:41< vultraz> as I've said before
20151217 05:16:45< vultraz> it's already dying :P
20151217 05:16:50< celticminstrel> There's nothing really wrong with WML.
20151217 05:17:03< ancestral> If it’s easier to mod, it helps get new people
20151217 05:17:03< vultraz> for *data*
20151217 05:17:09< vultraz> we've been over this
20151217 05:17:15< vultraz> wml is fine for data sets like unit types
20151217 05:17:27< vultraz> but not for scripting 
20151217 05:17:30< celticminstrel> Dying is still better than dead.+
20151217 05:17:32< vultraz> there's a lot of limitations to WML
20151217 05:17:41< ancestral> I could bring up the Hacker News thread where other techies give their opinion of what the team should do
20151217 05:17:58< celticminstrel> Yes, I agree that WML is not great for scripting, but the vast majority of its use in the engine is not scripting.
20151217 05:18:01< ancestral> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9946668
20151217 05:18:14< vultraz> celticminstrel: also, it sucks for terrain graphics
20151217 05:18:16< vultraz> unit animations
20151217 05:18:18< vultraz> etc
20151217 05:18:28< vultraz> that stuff should not be in a string-based data language
20151217 05:18:48< celticminstrel> I feel like it works reasonably well for animations, but terrain graphics are pretty arcane, yeah.
20151217 05:19:16< celticminstrel> You're suggesting that that stuff should be a custom binary data format?
20151217 05:19:59< ancestral> If Wesnoth chooses to use good, existing, well-developed tech, that would help
20151217 05:20:20< ancestral> But, you know, not Unity ;-)
20151217 05:20:52< vultraz> like, imagine if we could do: animation("Elvish Archer", standing, foo.png[1~6])
20151217 05:21:20< vultraz> dynamically 
20151217 05:21:23< celticminstrel> That's no good for defining an animation.
20151217 05:21:30< vultraz> why?
20151217 05:21:35< celticminstrel> It has no features.
20151217 05:21:52< vultraz> it's an example :P
20151217 05:22:21< celticminstrel> It also looks an awful lot like a string-based data language.
20151217 05:23:10< iceiceice> ancestral: never read that before, going to dive in :)
20151217 05:23:34< vultraz> celticminstrel: honestly it looks more like anura I think
20151217 05:23:40< ancestral> Make all modding in Lua, or some existing language
20151217 05:23:48< celticminstrel> I have no idea what anura is.
20151217 05:24:08< vultraz> wut
20151217 05:24:10< vultraz> O_O
20151217 05:24:12< ancestral> Dave’s other (other?) project
20151217 05:24:22< vultraz> it's Frogatto's engine 
20151217 05:24:40< celticminstrel> I don't really know what Frogatto is either, though I've heard of it a few times.
20151217 05:24:59< ancestral> #frogatto
20151217 05:25:00< vultraz> really nice pixel platformer set to release on steam "soon"
20151217 05:25:14< vultraz> Jetrel and dave are putting a lot of work into it
20151217 05:25:29< Jetrel_bot> boo
20151217 05:25:45< celticminstrel> I did know Jetrel was involved.
20151217 05:26:14< ancestral> At first I that you were booing. No, that was definitely a “here I am!”
20151217 05:26:14< celticminstrel> Even though ActionWML isn't that great compared to Lua, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of WML authors were put off by deprecating it.
20151217 05:26:42< ancestral> celticminstrel: How many WML authors?
20151217 05:26:44< vultraz> this is true
20151217 05:26:52< vultraz> some wouldn't want it to go
20151217 05:26:56< vultraz> but what choice do we have?
20151217 05:26:59 * Jetrel_bot is altogether too spooky
20151217 05:27:02< ancestral> But some won’t stay anyway
20151217 05:27:16-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 05:27:20< celticminstrel> ActionWML isn't great, but it's functional.
20151217 05:27:31< celticminstrel> It doesn't have to be deprecated.
20151217 05:27:52< vultraz> maybe not
20151217 05:27:54< vultraz> but it likely will be
20151217 05:28:06< vultraz> and I don't expect people are going to spend much effort keeping it around
20151217 05:28:23< Jetrel_bot> celticminstrel:  btw, frogatto does welcome testers at any point - we (and the anura engine backing frogatto) are freely available on github for download/testing
20151217 05:28:46< celticminstrel> I'll keep that in mind, I guess.
20151217 05:28:46< vultraz> celticminstrel: you're even a mac user so it's even better :P
20151217 05:28:58< ancestral> iceiceice: It’s funny how much the peeps on Hacker News bicker about each other more than the topic
20151217 05:29:00< celticminstrel> Ah, that could also be a bit of a problem though, given 10.7.
20151217 05:29:15< Jetrel_bot> it's a work in progress where the master branch on github is decidedly unstable (occasionally introducing game-breaking bugs from time to time).
20151217 05:29:20< wedge009> Aginor: Sorry, I fell asleep as soon as I got home yesterday. Didn't wake up till half-past one and even then, only for dinner and a shower before going back to sleep and then going to work.
20151217 05:30:02< Jetrel_bot> celticminstrel:  it's also worth noting; we're really building out the engine into a fairly decent general-purpose 2d game engine - there's a quite nice card game a Sirp and a few others are working on built in it, called Argentum Age.
20151217 05:30:04< celticminstrel> Even if you wanted to deprecate ActionWML, I would say that the engine isn't ready for it.
20151217 05:30:07< ancestral> vultraz: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9947961
20151217 05:30:13< wedge009> Aginor, shadowm: Did we ever have a consensus on whether Wesnoth should handle non-US keyboard layouts?
20151217 05:30:29< ancestral> That thread is riddled with C++ hate, hehehe
20151217 05:30:45< ancestral> (many of the comments)
20151217 05:30:52< celticminstrel> Maybe I'm weird, but I like using C++ for game programming.
20151217 05:31:13< vultraz> I feel like I'm un-hip for using C++ for anything :P
20151217 05:31:22< iceiceice> C++11 is a great language
20151217 05:31:32< iceiceice> i really like it, it has made me love C++ again
20151217 05:31:42< ancestral> wedge009: I find it frustrating that I have to press shift = to zoom in, but just - to zoom out.
20151217 05:31:53< iceiceice> even though it makes me feel like i am hitler in this video :p
20151217 05:31:54< iceiceice> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-TuW0KIgg
20151217 05:32:22< iceiceice> the stuff about linkage is horrible though
20151217 05:32:29< iceiceice> if they somehow could fix that it would make C++ so much better
20151217 05:32:43< ancestral> Let’s all adopt Swift :-P
20151217 05:32:53< iceiceice> lets all adopt rust :p
20151217 05:33:18< ancestral> ^ has appetizing name
20151217 05:33:33< vultraz> or haskell 
20151217 05:33:39< shadowm> wedge009: The only valid answer is "yes", there's no need for a consensus.
20151217 05:34:07< shadowm> And I'm *not* saying this only because I've never seen a U.S. keyboard in my life.
20151217 05:34:16< shadowm> Aginor: ^
20151217 05:34:21-!- artisticdude [~Ben@BYOD-NATout-129-174-182-105.byod.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: artisticdude]
20151217 05:34:40< iceiceice> vultraz: want to see the most cryptic program i ever wrote in my life?
20151217 05:34:43< iceiceice> it is 5 lines long :p
20151217 05:34:43< wedge009> shadowm: Sure, that's what I would expect, it's just that looking at past reports I'm not sure how well it's been handled. It's also difficult for me to test.
20151217 05:34:49< vultraz> iceiceice: sure
20151217 05:34:52< iceiceice> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/54768/tournament-format-synonyms/54804#54804
20151217 05:35:22< iceiceice> it literally took me multiple hours to figure out how to get it that small
20151217 05:35:29< iceiceice> probably to remember how it works would take me a long time also
20151217 05:35:59< wedge009> ancestral: Has that always been the case? Adding = as a hot-key doesn't work? I also change this in VLC, so I know what you mean.
20151217 05:36:05< vultraz> wut
20151217 05:36:22< ancestral> wedge009: It does. I created a hotkeys add-on to do specifically this.
20151217 05:36:47< wedge009> ancestral: Okay. That may just be a matter of the choice of default hot-keys, then.
20151217 05:37:19< wedge009> I just don't use the zoom function in Wesnoth, so I haven't really noticed it.
20151217 05:37:23< ancestral> Absolutely biased, but I find it makes way more sense than the defaults. http://r.wesnoth.org/t41525
20151217 05:38:52< ancestral> Man I got so frustrated when planning mode was ‘e’ and I would mistakenly type messages without pressing ‘m’ first and enable it and not figure out how to disable it
20151217 05:39:08< celticminstrel> C++11 is great, yeah.
20151217 05:39:19< celticminstrel> I like C++ a lot more since getting into C++11.
20151217 05:39:40< shadowm> wedge009: Very poorly when it comes to sequences involving key modifiers, can't say anything about first-level characters because my layout is identical to US in that regard (QWERTY).
20151217 05:40:01< shadowm> *when it comes to alphanumeric characters
20151217 05:40:09< ancestral> wedge009: I feel like Recruit is the most often used gameplay command. Why does it need a modifier key?
20151217 05:40:47< ancestral> (Hmm, apparently planning mode is/was ‘p’)
20151217 05:40:52< shadowm> Because the people who came up with the default mappings back in 2004 didn't think the same.
20151217 05:41:35< wedge009> ancestral: I'm not dealing with the default hot-keys here, I'm trying to work on a separate issue shadowm alerted me to. Also, I'm silly and just use mouse right-click for recruits. Probably because I want to specify where the units go.
20151217 05:42:04< ancestral> wedge009: Admittedly, it’s the best way to go, since we have no recruit button. You know, maybe there should just be a damn button on the UI.
20151217 05:43:11< shadowm> wedge009: Anyway, AFAICT Wesnoth 1.12.4 and 1.12.5 handle ' (a first level character in a contentious position) just fine, for example.
20151217 05:43:22< wedge009> shadowm: My update to avoid the Ctrl-m/Ctrl-j special cases breaks Dvorak and presumably other keyboard layouts where the characters are different because (according to SDL1.2) the character read and the keycode read are now different.
20151217 05:43:29< shadowm> Both fail at = (second level).
20151217 05:44:01< shadowm> Again, no experience with that, I get QWERTY here.
20151217 05:45:03< shadowm> wedge009: Also note this: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?18868
20151217 05:45:25< wedge009> shadowm: Yes, that's what I was looking at. It's the same reporter.
20151217 05:48:51< shadowm> So it's a Duplicate report then?
20151217 05:51:01< wedge009> shadowm: I'm not sure, trying to work out what's different and that's partly why I asked about non-US keyboard compatibility in Wesnoth.
20151217 05:52:10< shadowm> Okaz, German is QWERTZ and indeed itßs broken in Wesnoth hotkez-wise.
20151217 05:52:23< wedge009> Ha ha, wow.
20151217 05:52:31< wedge009> And yeah, this keyboard switching thing is annoying.
20151217 05:52:32< shadowm> Zou can tell Ißm actuallz using German because I canßt be bothered to remap mz muscle memorz.
20151217 05:52:36< wedge009> Yes.
20151217 05:52:42< iceiceice> ancestral: finally made it through
20151217 05:52:45< shadowm> Now, 1.12.4...
20151217 05:52:48< iceiceice> i guess yeah they spent most time arguing with eachother
20151217 05:52:52< celticminstrel> Heh.
20151217 05:52:56< vultraz> iceiceice: now I feel like hitler in the video.. :P
20151217 05:52:59< iceiceice> hehe
20151217 05:53:19< shadowm> Zeah, it actuallz works with the hotkezs in 1.12.4.
20151217 05:53:26< ancestral> Aginor, did you come along from that post? Or maybe not
20151217 05:53:36< wedge009> ancestral: You might be happy to know that the default zoom keys in sdl2 branch are - and =. But that may be because + and - on the numeric key pad don't work - looks like there's a distinction between the keys there. In SDL1.2, + and - on the main keyboard and the numeric key pad both zoom.
20151217 05:53:55< shadowm> Which either means that bug §18868 is actuallz Windows-specific or it was supposed to be marked as Fixed and closed at some point. (?)
20151217 05:54:35< ancestral> wedge009: Not sure that matters as long as there’s a default hotkeys file in Wesnoth that says otherwise
20151217 05:54:47< ancestral> But no matter, I’m over it
20151217 05:55:06< wedge009> ancestral: Not sure what you mean by that, but okay.
20151217 05:55:44< shadowm> C o,cyjd.e yr @.bincod *GO( *Ekrpat(@v
20151217 05:55:53< shadowm> C[m bry k.pf cmlp.oo.ev Dr, er l.rln. mabai. yr yfl. nct. ydcov
20151217 05:55:57< ancestral> wedge009: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/9e24258b5f5bd9e6b17006d06737fa32f4fc92aa/data/core/hotkeys.cfg
20151217 05:55:59< wedge009> shadowm: The new one is supposed to be in Windows as well (I keep randomly getting switched to Dvorak now >.<), but I reckon it's non-OS specific.
20151217 05:56:09< celticminstrel> Today I learned that German maps ' to ß and # to §.
20151217 05:56:55< wedge009> ancestral: I know the file, just not sure what you're saying.
20151217 05:56:55< shadowm> F.adw yd. 1v12v5 k.pocrb cob[y ROZol.jcucjv
20151217 05:56:55< wedge009> shadowm: Did you get switched to another keyboard?
20151217 05:56:55< celticminstrel> What the heck is shadowm on now?
20151217 05:56:55< wedge009> shadowm: I have no idea what you're saying.
20151217 05:56:55< shadowm> wedge009: I was trying out English (US) Dvorak.
20151217 05:56:55< celticminstrel> The last three lines are pure gibberish.
20151217 05:56:57< wedge009> Yes.
20151217 05:57:02< celticminstrel> Not including that one.
20151217 05:57:07< shadowm> "How do people manage to type like this?"
20151217 05:57:17< ancestral> wedge009: Any person who plays almost any other game that has zoom or speed or whatever mapped to - and + do not press shift. With Wesnoth, you have to press shift on the =.
20151217 05:57:20< wedge009> They happen to use that layout first?
20151217 05:57:21< shadowm> "Yeah, the 1.12.5 version of the bug isn't OS-specific AFAICT."
20151217 05:57:36< shadowm> I mean that I'm not picturing a very ergonomic keyboard layout.
20151217 05:57:41< wedge009> ancestral: The point C ,a ,ao yp
20151217 05:57:51< celticminstrel> There's no good solution for the zoom hotkeys.
20151217 05:57:58< ancestral> Hmm
20151217 05:58:05< celticminstrel> It would be nice if you could say "press - to zoom out and + to zoom in"
20151217 05:58:06< wedge009> ancestral: The point I was trying to make was that whoever implemented it was probably using the numeric key pad.
20151217 05:58:08< shadowm> ancestral: This isn't a game where you need to change zoom all the time.
20151217 05:58:22< shadowm> Zoom amnesia notwithstanding.
20151217 05:58:29< wedge009> Implemented default hot-keys I mean.
20151217 05:58:29< ancestral> shadowm: Maybe if you have a gigantic screen and we want to support higher resolutions
20151217 05:58:42< ancestral> wedge009: That could be
20151217 05:58:46< shadowm> ancestral: Then you still don't need to change zoom all the time.
20151217 05:58:48< celticminstrel> But that means you need to either hold shift in order to get +, or tell the game to show shift-= as +.
20151217 05:58:49< wedge009> What do you mean support? We already do by default, don't we?
20151217 05:58:52< shadowm> Zoom amnesia notwithstanding.
20151217 05:59:04< wedge009> Support higher resolutions?
20151217 05:59:08< celticminstrel> But if you choose the latter, you need some sort of logic for when to do that and when not to do that.
20151217 05:59:27< celticminstrel> And that sort of logic requires an intimate understanding of the keyboard layout, as far as I can see.
20151217 05:59:31< shadowm> We support high resolutions, we don't support nonstandard pixel sizes.
20151217 05:59:47< ancestral> If SDL supports + - on the keypad as separate keys from the rest of the keyboard, that would absolutely satisfy me
20151217 05:59:53< celticminstrel> Is it common across keyboard layouts for =/+ to be on the same key?
20151217 05:59:54< ancestral> s/SDL/SDL2?
20151217 06:00:04< wedge009> ancestral: It seems to.
20151217 06:00:06< celticminstrel> SDL does support keypad +/- separately.
20151217 06:00:13< shadowm> Not everyone has a numeric keypad, especially not laptop users.
20151217 06:00:20< celticminstrel> And OSX users.
20151217 06:00:23< wedge009> Yes, that's the catch.
20151217 06:00:32< celticminstrel> Since nowadays many OSX users even on desktops won't have one.
20151217 06:00:35< shadowm> I mean seriously, Recruit is a pretty good point but Zoom is very pointless.
20151217 06:00:54< wedge009> Anyway! The zoom thing is a digression. Back to focusing on the non-US layout issue.
20151217 06:00:56< ancestral> http://www.wpclipart.com/computer/hardware/keyboard/keyboard_black.png
20151217 06:01:10< shadowm> We just need someone to add code to make the zoom level persistent and then people who actually need to change it will only ever need to change it once per install.
20151217 06:01:34< celticminstrel> If it's common for =/+ to be the same key on various keyboard layouts, I think it would be reasonable to default Zoom In to = instead of shift-=.
20151217 06:02:00< shadowm> = is Shift+0 here.
20151217 06:02:10< shadowm> + and - are separate first level keys.
20151217 06:02:39< celticminstrel> Ah, I see.
20151217 06:02:46< ancestral> Depends on the layout
20151217 06:02:50< shadowm> The key that on US English maps to = is, I believe, ' (apostrophe).
20151217 06:03:12< celticminstrel> That doesn't really say anything about whether it's common, but it's not a good sign, so I guess it's probably not worth changing the default Zoom Out key.
20151217 06:03:16< shadowm> If my memory doesn't fail. I didn't have to think of these things since the DOS/Windows days.
20151217 06:03:33< celticminstrel> Apostrophe on my keyboard is two to the right of L.
20151217 06:03:47< shadowm> To the right of 0 here. ;)
20151217 06:03:55< ancestral> celticminstrel: Every US keyboard in the last 20 years I have seen has + = on the same key
20151217 06:04:01< ancestral> When not on the keypad
20151217 06:04:11< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20151217 06:04:23< celticminstrel> But I was thinking of non-US keyboards.
20151217 06:04:32< ancestral> For sure, there’s many other keyboards out there
20151217 06:05:32< shadowm> The subject honestly is quite annoying for me because I've only ever used Spanish and Latin American keyboards (two different layouts, believe it or not), and Wesnoth's development team has been historically based on Central Europe.
20151217 06:06:31< shadowm> So there's never been a huge focus on thinking in U.S. terms. Also, most people don't customize their hotkeys very heavily anyway.
20151217 06:06:55< wedge009> shadowm, Aginor: I thought SDL2 was supposed to handle non-US layouts but it looks like what it does is use the key location instead. eg On the title screen, 'l' (lower-case L) is used as short-cut for language, but switching to Dvorak layout means the short-cut becomes 'n' instead (they are the same key on the keyboard). I thought SDL2 would allow 'l' to be used regardless of the location on the keyboard and layout used in the OS
20151217 06:06:56< shadowm> If they did, the forums would be flooded with posts like "ugh why doesnt this support my keyboard your game sucks"
20151217 06:07:56< celticminstrel> Wesnoth stores that as "L", right?
20151217 06:08:32< wedge009> shadowm, Aginor: Admittedly, it's still better than what's happened SDL1.2 where character-based hot-keys are broken now (where the keys differ on non-US layouts).
20151217 06:08:37< shadowm> Personally, I just expect things to work the way Wesnoth tells me they should (i.e. the default bindings, no matter how awkward they are) and not think too much about it, but it's true that this approach screws over non-QWERTY users. And that's not even taking into account non-Latin layouts.
20151217 06:08:42< wedge009> celticminstrel: Uh, no, it's a lower-case l.
20151217 06:09:10< celticminstrel> Well okay, but the main point is that it's an L, not an N or a numeric scancode or something.
20151217 06:09:41< wedge009> shadowm: I've used British and US keyboards, if only because Australia shares the $ as its currency symbol so there's no need to have a different keyboard layout to US.
20151217 06:10:36< wedge009> celticminstrel: Oh, sorry, I believe it does, yes.
20151217 06:11:25< shadowm> The tl;dr is that I'd rather approach this stuff as a lowly user than be involved in the technical discussions because it's honestly mind-boggling that it doesn't "just work". Nor does it help that I don't play other games so as to be able to have "industry convention" as a reference framework.
20151217 06:11:38< celticminstrel> Hmm... I don't know if Wesnoth uses any of qwzay...
20151217 06:11:42< shadowm> (Plus the industry isn't always right, otherwise we wouldn't have Windows.)
20151217 06:12:04< wedge009> So. It looks like non-QWERTY set-ups haven't really been heavily tested. I'll see if I can at least get characters working in SDL1.2 again even if it's not compatible with every layout ever designed.
20151217 06:12:14< celticminstrel> If you switch to AZERTY (I think French uses that) or QWERTZ (German), it also doesn't show correctly?
20151217 06:12:49< shadowm> wedge009: I mean, the trivial answer is to revert your commits so the code is restored to the 1.12.4 version. :p
20151217 06:13:05< celticminstrel> ...I wonder what happens if you plug in a keyboard that actually has a different layout.
20151217 06:13:13< shadowm> But that'd be a pity because they were a huge time investment for all parts involved.
20151217 06:13:28< shadowm> celticminstrel: Same thing as if you switched to a layout that doesn't match your keyboard's.
20151217 06:13:43< celticminstrel> This isn't just speculation?
20151217 06:13:58< shadowm> The keyboard doesn't "know" its layout.
20151217 06:14:05< wedge009> shadowm: Well, yes, that's true. But eventually we'll go to SDL2. I hope.
20151217 06:14:37< shadowm> Manufacturers just design them to emit generic codes and cross their fingers that the OS will somehow know what to do because the user configured it accordingly.
20151217 06:15:03< shadowm> wedge009: Not in 1.12, and as I see things right now, I wouldn't be surprised if 1.12 became the longest supported series ever.
20151217 06:15:12< celticminstrel> But if the generic code for the A key is the same no matter where the key is, it would sort of "know" it's layout.
20151217 06:15:27< celticminstrel> ^its
20151217 06:15:33< shadowm> Nah, it's just a code, it doesn't say it's an A.
20151217 06:15:49< shadowm> The OS decides it's an A because the user told the OS to use a layout for which that code represents an A.
20151217 06:15:53< wedge009> I thought it already was, but then, I've only been playing since 1.4.x
20151217 06:15:58-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-163-129.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20151217 06:16:28-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-163-129.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 06:16:33< shadowm> wedge009: 1.12 thus far has had a shorter lifetime than 1.10 on account of its relative recent-ness.
20151217 06:16:39< celticminstrel> I've never actually used a non-US keyboard (oh wait, I've used a British layout though), so maybe I should just stop talking on this subject.
20151217 06:17:01< wedge009> Oh that's right.
20151217 06:17:07< wedge009> Well, 1.10 was long.
20151217 06:17:19-!- Jetrel_bot is now known as Anime_Villain
20151217 06:17:28< shadowm> 1.10: January 22 2012 (1.10.0) - August 17 2013 (1.10.7)
20151217 06:17:43-!- Anime_Villain is now known as Jetrel_bot
20151217 06:17:53< shadowm> 1.12: November 15 2014 (1.12.0) - November 5 2015 (1.12.5)
20151217 06:18:54< shadowm> 1.10 has the longest lifetime atm, followed by 1.12.
20151217 06:19:55< shadowm> 1.10's effective lifetime is a little longer than the release interval because it kept receiving important commits after 1.10.7 was published, but the previous release manager didn't consider them important and preferred to focus on 1.11.x to the detriment of the audience, so no 1.10.8 happened.
20151217 06:20:56< shadowm> It's a reasonable approach to take when you have limited development resources, don't take me wrong. The problem is that our most important assets (our users) don't share that development mentality and would rather keep playing on stable.
20151217 06:21:09< shadowm> And they do, even until the next stable .0 release. :|
20151217 06:21:44-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD119104011122.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20151217 06:23:32< shadowm> And the fact that they keep playing on stable means that their impression of Wesnoth (including bugs and deficiencies) is their impression of the stable branch.
20151217 06:24:06< shadowm> And if their impression of the stable branch isn't favorable, they are unlikely to want to look into testing "development" versions which are obviously full of bugs.
20151217 06:24:28< shadowm> And if their impression of Wesnoth isn't favorable that's a potential future Wesnoth developer lost.
20151217 06:24:50< shadowm> I remember downloading Wesnoth 1.1.6 and being very disappointed to say the least.
20151217 06:25:13< shadowm> And I wouldn't have given Wesnoth a second thought if I hadn't played 1.0.2 and 1.1.2a beforehand.
20151217 06:25:23< shadowm> And 0.9.6 before that.
20151217 06:26:16< wedge009> Sure.
20151217 06:26:44< wedge009> shadowm, Aginor: Found this on the SDL2 migration guide: Scancodes are meant to be layout-independent. Think of this as "the user pressed the Q key as it would be on a US QWERTY keyboard" regardless of whether this is actually a European keyboard or a Dvorak keyboard or whatever. The scancode is always the same key position.
20151217 06:26:48-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-163-129.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20151217 06:26:50< shadowm> Anzwaz how the hell do I convince X11 to disable the alternate lazouts now.
20151217 06:27:10< wedge009> shadowm, Aginor: So that make sense - sdl2 branch behaviour matches that description.
20151217 06:27:22< shadowm> Oh, okay, I just had to remove them rather than disable layout selection.
20151217 06:27:46< wedge009> I don't know. ): I'll probably delete Dvorak on mine as well. I keep getting switched between layouts at random times. >.<
20151217 06:28:49< shadowm> First thing I do when setting up Linux is to make sure there aren't any alternate layouts enabled. This is from bad experiences with Windows where I would set the default layout and applications would randomly get switched on a per-window basis without my consent, all the time.
20151217 06:28:56< celticminstrel> I changed my layout change shortcut because I kept hitting Cmd+Space automatically.
20151217 06:28:57< wedge009> From what I've seen, then, it looks like the US-centric nature of SDL keyboard handling is a limitation of SDL.
20151217 06:29:16-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-163-129.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 06:29:25< celticminstrel> ^accidentally
20151217 06:29:39< celticminstrel> How did I get "automatically" from "accidentally".
20151217 06:29:46< shadowm> Meaning that whenever I first set up a Windows system, I also have to make sure to delete layouts, which is a hassle, which is why I'm glad I no longer have to set up Windows or anything else every 8 months or so.
20151217 06:29:52< wedge009> Yeah, I prefer to use Shift+Enter rather than Ctrl+Space.
20151217 06:29:56< wedge009> Autocorrect?
20151217 06:30:08< celticminstrel> No, I disabled that because it was useless.
20151217 06:30:13< wedge009> Heh.
20151217 06:30:18< wedge009> It happens, don't worry about it.
20151217 06:30:31< celticminstrel> It's handy on a phone where the typo rate is inordinately high, but it's useless on a desktop where the typo rate is fairly low.
20151217 06:30:36< wedge009> shadowm: Windows only puts US by default, doesn't it?
20151217 06:30:53< ancestral> shadowm: From before: part of the reason people don’t upgrade is the game doesn’t auto-update. (I know some tools are in the works.)
20151217 06:30:56< ancestral> Reminds me of browsers
20151217 06:30:57< wedge009> Everything is so blasted US-centric on Windows install. Hmm, it's US-centric on Linux installations too, I suppose.
20151217 06:31:25< ancestral> Users would never bother updating their browser because it was a chore. Now virtually all the browser makers update for you
20151217 06:31:35< shadowm> wedge009: If I select Spanish (Latin American), I get Spanish (Spain) and English (U.S.) as a bonus for no obvious reason.
20151217 06:31:48< wedge009> I hate automatic updates, but that's just me. I prefer to do update manually.
20151217 06:31:57< wedge009> do updates*
20151217 06:32:08< shadowm> I guess Microsoft's logic is "oh this user speaks Spanish, let's install all possibly relevant layouts because they are a Windows user and obviously don't know what they are doing".
20151217 06:32:09< wedge009> Though I don't mind automatic notifications.
20151217 06:32:18< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20151217 06:32:20< wedge009> shadowm: Now that is pretty silly.
20151217 06:32:28< celticminstrel> I like the notifications but I want to decide when to download them.
20151217 06:32:38< wedge009> Yep, me too.
20151217 06:32:48< wedge009> Particularly a problem when on download quotas.
20151217 06:32:49< shadowm> Me too because I can't always afford downloads.
20151217 06:32:54< shadowm> ^ 
20151217 06:33:01< celticminstrel> I don't see a problem with installing all the Spanish layouts, really.
20151217 06:33:02< wedge009> Heh, we're all in the same boat, then.
20151217 06:33:07< celticminstrel> It doesn't hurt to have some extra layouts.
20151217 06:33:19< celticminstrel> And you can always disable them if you don't need them.
20151217 06:33:21< ancestral> wedge009: If there was a button that said “Update Wesnoth Now” that would still be a major improvement
20151217 06:33:25< ancestral> imo anyway
20151217 06:33:37< shadowm> (Welcome to the 21st century where some decided to impose dial-up-like limitations on non-dial-up technologies.)
20151217 06:38:57-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 06:40:30-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has quit [Client Quit]
20151217 06:43:48-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-163-129.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20151217 06:47:00-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-163-129.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 06:49:04< ancestral> What’s the difference between `scons translate` and `scons translations`?
20151217 06:49:10< ancestral> It seems the latter always fails
20151217 06:49:27< ancestral> Sorry, I mean the former fails
20151217 06:49:58< shadowm> Is the former even an actual target?
20151217 06:50:28< ancestral> It does a thing if one types it in
20151217 06:50:42< ancestral> in the root project dir
20151217 06:50:59< shadowm> Yes, but so does `scons banana`.
20151217 06:51:01< ancestral> (It doesn’t successfully, but it tries to do a thing)
20151217 06:51:05< shadowm> scons: *** Do not know how to make File target `translate' (/home/shadowm/src/wesnoth/translate).  Stop.
20151217 06:51:12< shadowm> It's not a defined target.
20151217 06:51:27< ancestral> Ah
20151217 06:51:32< ancestral> Well okay then
20151217 06:57:26< celticminstrel> Mm, banana.
20151217 07:01:28< ancestral> バナナ
20151217 07:07:05< wedge009> celticminstrel: Donkey Kong?
20151217 07:07:17< celticminstrel> Nah.
20151217 07:07:24< wedge009> Oh wait. Talking about scons.
20151217 07:07:36< wedge009> You just reminded me of DK64, that's all.
20151217 07:07:50< celticminstrel> I had a math professor who used banana as a variable in his examples.
20151217 07:07:59< wedge009> Ah, there's always one.
20151217 07:08:55< ancestral> celticminstrel: He wasn’t a fan of foo, bar and baz?
20151217 07:09:04< wedge009> I use fred.
20151217 07:09:27< celticminstrel> I guess he wanted something more concrete or something?
20151217 07:09:33< ancestral> Sure
20151217 07:09:45< celticminstrel> Anyway, foobarbaz is more in programming than in math.
20151217 07:09:46< wedge009> shadowm: I give up for now. I made PR #562 to revert the commit. I'm bummed that some other corrections that came through will be lost, but it'll all be taken care of in SDL2 I suppose.
20151217 07:10:15< ancestral> Reminds me of http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Hungarian.txt
20151217 07:10:43< wedge009> shadowm: (At first I thought I might try making ctrl = true a condition, but then the issue would still be there for Ctrl+[letter] combinations.
20151217 07:10:45< wedge009> )
20151217 07:11:16< shadowm> wedge009: You didn't *need* to make a PR with only mainline reverts, but that's okay...
20151217 07:11:42< wedge009> Okay. What should I do next time?
20151217 07:12:12< shadowm> It's not so much about should/should not, just need/need not. Using PRs is okay but that means more work for the submitter.
20151217 07:12:58< wedge009> Ha! Well, okay. What might be less work for a submitter to do next time? Just ask to have it reverted?
20151217 07:13:09< shadowm> I.e. you. Normally it'd just be fine to ask someone with push access to revert the commits or (preferably) point them out in a bug report so they aren't forgotten.
20151217 07:13:18< wedge009> Yes, I know. (:
20151217 07:13:29< wedge009> Oh, okay.
20151217 07:13:44< wedge009> I don't mind PRs.
20151217 07:14:28< shadowm> Okay.
20151217 07:16:14< shadowm> vultraz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/installer-2.png
20151217 07:17:17< vultraz> fine
20151217 07:18:08< ancestral> Oh, I need a new background image
20151217 07:18:12< ancestral> for the dmg
20151217 07:20:38< shadowm> loonycyborg: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/branding-installer-banner-39.png
20151217 07:21:27< shadowm> I can commit this stuff myself, really, just letting you decide whether it's good to go or not.
20151217 07:22:50< ancestral> vultraz: Do you have the rendered text in the logo in a vector format?
20151217 07:22:59< ancestral> I’m looking to make a 2x size logo
20151217 07:25:22< vultraz> ancestral: all logo resources are in the resource repo
20151217 07:25:52< vultraz> including logo and text vector files
20151217 07:26:01< ancestral> Oh wow ok
20151217 07:26:10 * ancestral never knew that existed
20151217 07:27:04< vultraz> now you know :)
20151217 07:27:04< shadowm> Wouldn't have been very useful to know before considering the previous logo was only available in raster format.
20151217 07:27:17< shadowm> And not even particularly high-res.
20151217 07:27:32< vultraz> we had no hgh-res copies of the old logo
20151217 07:27:58< shadowm> Hence what I just said.
20151217 07:29:03-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20151217 07:29:15-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 07:30:52-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Client Quit]
20151217 07:30:56< ancestral> Hmm
20151217 07:31:14 * vultraz is off to see star wars
20151217 07:31:43< wedge009> vultraz: No spoilers! I'm seeing it on Boxing Day.
20151217 07:32:15< shadowm> No spoilers for me either because I've no idea when or whether I'm going to watch it yet.
20151217 07:32:42< vultraz> *whether*???
20151217 07:32:45< vultraz> WHETHER??/
20151217 07:32:49-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 07:33:03< shadowm> I said "whether", indeed.
20151217 07:33:44< ancestral> Hmm I can’t find the svg of the English text-only, other than the “the text here” image
20151217 07:33:48< celticminstrel> I intend to watch it, but probably not until aftger Christmas.
20151217 07:33:50< shadowm> The hype might either convince me, or kill it for me.
20151217 07:34:09< shadowm> Since it's Star Wars we're talking about, I'm leaning more on the "nope" side.
20151217 07:34:17< ancestral> My girlfriend gets to work opening night at a theater in town
20151217 07:34:26< celticminstrel> Geh, ^-g
20151217 07:34:56< ancestral> shadowm: What’s your favorite, if any, sci-fi movie/series?
20151217 07:34:59< shadowm> <vultraz> i find your lack of faith disturbing
20151217 07:35:46< shadowm> ancestral: None really. I guess I'm not into this stuff enough to have something to go crazy about.
20151217 07:37:23< shadowm> Plus I guess I've become very jaded by the film industry's trend of recycling IPs throughout the 2010s.
20151217 07:41:50< shadowm> I can tell you I hate The Hobbit with a passion, though.
20151217 07:42:31< shadowm> And yes, I decided it is sci-fi, not fantasy, otherwise there's no logical explanation for some of the crap a certain character pulls off.
20151217 07:55:21< celticminstrel> Which character?
20151217 07:57:47-!- horrowind [~Icedove@2a02:810a:8b00:1c54:21b:fcff:fee3:c3ff] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 08:04:41< ancestral> http://i.imgur.com/dyJF8Dh.png
20151217 08:05:01< ancestral> mattsc ^ ;-)
20151217 08:07:35-!- boucman_work [~jrosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 08:08:45-!- horrowind [~Icedove@2a02:810a:8b00:1c54:21b:fcff:fee3:c3ff] has quit [Quit: horrowind]
20151217 08:23:03< ancestral> Uploading Mac package
20151217 08:24:07-!- zombah [~zombah@2a02:28:3:1:214:4fff:fe47:5920] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 08:53:16< ancestral> Hmm, sf might have corrupted my upload
20151217 08:59:43-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ackhipmyxdrzsjah] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20151217 09:02:14-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsiimplblcgzspm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 09:02:47< ancestral> Okay, this is just ridiculous
20151217 09:03:00< ancestral> The upload stopped at 167 MB
20151217 09:06:53-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsiimplblcgzspm] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20151217 09:10:26-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xcsulenzcyscfezs] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 09:17:14-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xcsulenzcyscfezs] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20151217 09:20:09-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
20151217 09:26:01-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 09:27:46-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20151217 09:30:30< ancestral> Done
20151217 09:34:45-!- ancestral [~ancestral@97-116-163-129.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20151217 09:38:47< zookeeper> shadowm, the only sources online are the translation files, which you can use to get a labelless version
20151217 09:40:13-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tbqixzzpvquueurp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 09:43:05< zookeeper> (and which are in the resources repo)
20151217 09:49:10-!- fendrin [~quassel@176.4.65.131] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 09:49:10-!- fendrin [~quassel@176.4.65.131] has quit [Changing host]
20151217 09:49:10-!- fendrin [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 09:49:17-!- fabi [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 10:08:33< loonycyborg> shadowm: It looks nice, please do 
20151217 10:12:52< Aginor> shadowm, ancestral, celticminstrel, wedge009: I just caught up on the backlog discussion. My SDL2 changes will work across all keyboard layouts, and will be the same physical buttons, regardless of what layout is printed on them (or the OS is set to). '=/+' and 'KP_+' are two different buttons and are treated differently
20151217 10:14:25< Aginor> wedge009: The SDl2 branch uses scancodes to achieve this behaviour
20151217 10:38:49-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD119104017094.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 11:37:13-!- irker746 [~irker@109.237.213.40] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20151217 11:48:44-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tbqixzzpvquueurp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20151217 11:55:25-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20151217 11:57:15< wedge009> Aginor: It's fine, I understand what the documentation said. I was just under the wrong impression that the scan codes would follow the character value rather than key location. It's still an improvement over SDL1.2, though.
20151217 11:59:28-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD119104017094.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20151217 12:33:33-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phmyduhgmadkglpr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 12:55:21-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 12:56:48-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD119104000158.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 13:00:09-!- tinselchild [enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20151217 13:00:52-!- tinselchild [enchilado@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-azatbhejcxienrgd] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 13:01:48-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD119104000158.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20151217 13:07:17-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phmyduhgmadkglpr] has quit []
20151217 13:07:27-!- Lohengramm [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vbycmketxclixume] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 13:15:24-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F250A9F5D14310FCB542258.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 13:37:41-!- zombah [~zombah@2a02:28:3:1:214:4fff:fe47:5920] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20151217 13:53:35< zookeeper> i wonder how common it is to store a unit on a recall list and unstore it onto the map, opposed to actually recalling it.
20151217 13:53:36-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F250A9F5D14310FCB542258.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 13:54:43< zookeeper> i'm adding a "unit created" event so that for example event-driven abilities can more easily "catch" units spawned by the scenario with [unit] and wesnoth.put_unit, but one way to circumvent it would be to create the unit on the recall list and unstore it onto the map.
20151217 13:56:29-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@x5ce4827d.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 13:56:58< zookeeper> and by "it" i mean for example the name=unit created,prerecruit,prerecall event which you would be using to catch all unit creation
20151217 13:57:33< zookeeper> (except units in [side]s, because i don't think you can fire events at that time)
20151217 14:00:56< vultraz> probably not common at all
20151217 14:01:12< vultraz> if someone wants to circumnavigate that, you justoffered a solution
20151217 14:01:31< Ravana_> [unstore_unit] already has fire_event= key
20151217 14:04:25< zookeeper> i was first considering making the event fire every time a unit appears on the map, whether it's old or new, recruited, recalled, created or unstored, but that seemed like it'd have required code in tons of places
20151217 14:04:47< zookeeper> although i might have been mistaken
20151217 14:06:26-!- iwaim___ [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20151217 14:07:43< vultraz> zookeeper: btw, any opinions on my use of full portraits in the help browser
20151217 14:11:33< zookeeper> yes, sounds like a bad idea
20151217 14:12:44< vultraz> :|
20151217 14:12:54< vultraz> why does everyone say that
20151217 14:14:40< zookeeper> just look at the ancient wose
20151217 14:15:03< zookeeper> now, if you can make the full portrait show nicely in the background (maybe dimmed a lot so it won't mess with text readability) then that would probably be great
20151217 14:15:46< zookeeper> also portraits are cropped at bottom and left, and you have them at top right...
20151217 14:16:18-!- iwaim___ [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 14:19:22< zookeeper> p.s. elder mage should probably have the same portrait as arch/great mage
20151217 14:52:09-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 14:52:52-!- irker714 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 14:52:52< irker714> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 9cf19bd52644 / data/core/units/humans/Mage_Elder.cfg: Give Elder Mage the same portrait as the Arch Mage (no female variation for form http://git.io/v0HDw
20151217 14:55:15-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20151217 14:55:16-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009
20151217 15:04:38-!- artisticdude [~Ben@BYOD-NATout-129-174-182-105.byod.gmu.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 15:17:33< vultraz> yo artisticdude 
20151217 15:18:01< artisticdude> Hey vultraz
20151217 15:18:30< vultraz> so you're back, eh
20151217 15:19:37< artisticdude> Yup, for better or for worse.
20151217 15:20:07< vultraz> still in college?
20151217 15:21:26< artisticdude> Yeah, I actually transferred to a software engineering program around DC
20151217 15:22:04< artisticdude> If everything goes according to plan I’ll eventually be designing corporate-level software solutions.
20151217 15:22:37< vultraz> not bad, not bad
20151217 15:25:21< artisticdude> What about you, what have you been up to?
20151217 15:26:02< vultraz> eh, not much
20151217 15:26:18< vultraz> I just saw The Force Awakens this evening, for one :D
20151217 15:27:43< artisticdude> Already? Ha I’m going to see it in a few days once I wrap up finals and head home for the break.
20151217 15:30:53< vultraz> yes
20151217 15:31:01< vultraz> I'm so smug I saw it before any of my friends 
20151217 15:33:43-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F250A9FD5CB984D331A7D6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 15:33:59< artisticdude> How did you manage that, btw?
20151217 15:35:30< vultraz> bc it's the 17th here
20151217 15:37:53< artisticdude> Oh. Guess there are some benefits to living our in Micronesia, eh? ;P
20151217 15:40:24< vultraz> indeed
20151217 15:48:17-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054138048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 15:52:25< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: could jenking in theoiry create autmatically create relases (instalers or just zip files that wokr out of the bux) for a certain commit?
20151217 15:52:54< loonycyborg> yes
20151217 15:53:43< gfgtdf> jenkins*
20151217 16:00:44< vultraz> artisticdude: btw, are you still an artistic dude
20151217 16:10:11< artisticdude> vultraz: Yes, albeit a slightly rusty one without a tablet.
20151217 16:11:05< artisticdude> I’m going to have to get a new one sometime, when I have the money to do so.
20151217 16:12:53< Rhonda> duh
20151217 16:13:28 * Rhonda facepalms
20151217 16:15:20< Rhonda> shadowm, I'm getting somewhere: https://wesnoth.org/ should be shown trusted in the browsers now.  :)
20151217 16:17:31 * Rhonda does the happy dance: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=wesnoth.org - a clean A.  :D
20151217 16:17:40< fendrin> vultraz: Do you like the new one?
20151217 16:19:00< Rhonda> Gambit: You might want to retweet me  ;)
20151217 16:19:42< vultraz> fendrin: ?
20151217 16:19:50< fendrin> the new movie
20151217 16:19:53< fendrin> was it nice?
20151217 16:20:09< fendrin> The 3 last star wars movies were terrible in my opinion
20151217 16:21:02< vultraz> fendrin: yes. very much so. it was amazing
20151217 16:21:09< fendrin> cool
20151217 16:21:19< fendrin> I need to watch it in cinema as well.
20151217 16:22:25< vultraz> indeed
20151217 16:23:12< fendrin> It somehow scared me that merchandising articles were to be bought before the actual product was available.
20151217 16:23:41< fendrin> I mean months earlier.
20151217 16:24:24< fendrin> Lego Star Wars for example.
20151217 16:25:20 * vultraz shrugs
20151217 16:25:23< vultraz> the movie is amazing
20151217 16:25:24< vultraz> go see it :P
20151217 16:25:46< fendrin> Well, tickets are sold out.
20151217 16:25:57< fendrin> I am going to wait for January.
20151217 16:27:24< vultraz> another benefit to living here, i guess
20151217 16:27:52< fendrin> :-)
20151217 16:28:36< fendrin> vultraz: How big is the city you life in?
20151217 16:33:40< vultraz> not large
20151217 16:34:57< fendrin> vultraz: Some minutes ago I pushed some commits to Irdya. Since you asked to have a look at the new codebase.
20151217 16:35:26< fendrin> It's not in a releasable state yet but one can see most of the structure already.
20151217 16:43:25< vultraz> i don't even know where it is
20151217 16:43:46< fendrin> https://github.com/fendrin/Irdya
20151217 17:14:22< zookeeper> recruit, recall, [unit], [unstore_unit], debug unit create, plague. any other ways for a unit to appear on the map?
20151217 17:15:03< zookeeper> i would have forgotten about plague if i hadn't been testing in a scenario with WC's...
20151217 17:16:38< fendrin> zookeeper: What about the lua way?
20151217 17:16:52< zookeeper> oh, right, wesnoth.put_unit. just forgot to mention that.
20151217 17:33:49< fendrin> zookeeper: If unit transformation via plaque is worth firing the new event, isn't advancing or transforming into a variant as well?
20151217 17:34:26< zookeeper> i don't think so, since it's not a new unit
20151217 17:34:43-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 17:34:46< fendrin> hmmm
20151217 17:34:47< gfgtdf> zookeeper: why exactly do yo need such an event?
20151217 17:35:03< fendrin> technicaly the walking corps isn't a new one either.
20151217 17:35:23< fendrin> The only difference is the side the result belongs to.
20151217 17:35:59< zookeeper> gfgtdf, to make it possible for some WML to for example touch every unit ever created
20151217 17:36:17< zookeeper> currently there is no way to immediately fire an event when a unit appears, and do something to it
20151217 17:36:41< zookeeper> you have to wait for something else to happen before you can notice that
20151217 17:37:03< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm will that event also be fired for units on the recall list or will ot only be fired as soon as the unti is placed on the map`?
20151217 17:37:22< zookeeper> only when placed on the map; you can't even fire an event for a unit on the recall list, because they have no position
20151217 17:40:24< gfgtdf> zookeeper: also don't forget [unit] in [side] although maybe you can cover tehm ina prestart event
20151217 17:40:51< zookeeper> yeah, those are placed before events can be fired i think, so i'll have to exclude them
20151217 17:41:12< zookeeper> in theory of course one could queue those to be fired at prestart time, but that seems like overengineering in this case
20151217 17:43:06< fendrin> That is actually a good idea.
20151217 17:43:33< fendrin> Transforming all units in [side] into prestart event code.
20151217 17:45:05< fendrin> or even better
20151217 17:45:19< fendrin> transforming the whole side setup into prestart event code.
20151217 17:45:29< fendrin> And allow adding sides dynamically at the same time.
20151217 17:51:21< fendrin> So at the end all toplevel scenario code just gets transformed into prestart event code.
20151217 17:51:54< fendrin> zookeeper, you are a genius.
20151217 17:52:03-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20151217 17:52:23-!- neverEnough_ is now known as neverEnough
20151217 17:53:00-!- irker714 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20151217 17:54:43< neverEnough> shadowm, yes that forum profile and game account is mine. Though i often play with an other one to stay unknown :p
20151217 17:54:55-!- vjoshi [~vjoshi@114.143.125.90] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 17:56:04< neverEnough> (i noticed i have like a book of unread logs, i'm barely at pc so far, lots other issues)
20151217 17:56:52-!- artisticdude [~Ben@BYOD-NATout-129-174-182-105.byod.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: artisticdude]
20151217 17:59:20-!- vjoshi [~vjoshi@114.143.125.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20151217 18:01:53-!- vjoshi [728f7c70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.114.143.124.112] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 18:13:13-!- artisticdude [~Ben@BYOD-NATout-129-174-182-105.byod.gmu.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 18:13:22-!- horrowind [~Icedove@2a02:810a:8b00:1c54:21b:fcff:fee3:c3ff] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 18:13:46-!- artisticdude [~Ben@BYOD-NATout-129-174-182-105.byod.gmu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 18:17:33-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 18:44:55-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F250A9FD5CB984D331A7D6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20151217 18:45:08-!- Crendgrim_ [~crend@wesnoth/forum-moderator/crendgrim] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 18:45:58-!- Crendgrim [~crend@wesnoth/forum-moderator/crendgrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20151217 18:55:21-!- tinselchild [enchilado@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-azatbhejcxienrgd] has quit [Changing host]
20151217 18:55:21-!- tinselchild [enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 19:03:45-!- vjoshi [728f7c70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.114.143.124.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20151217 19:05:19-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20151217 19:16:09-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20151217 19:16:15-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 19:28:57-!- Crendgrim_ is now known as Crendgrim
20151217 19:34:32< zookeeper> durr, i take back what i said about units in [side]. it was easy after all.
20151217 19:59:32< celticminstrel> Hm?
20151217 20:02:31< Rhonda> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!   https://forums.wesnoth.org/
20151217 20:02:55< celticminstrel> ?????
20151217 20:03:03< Rhonda> https!!! For forums!!
20151217 20:03:07< Rhonda> Working!!
20151217 20:03:14< Rhonda> !one!eleven!!
20151217 20:03:14< celticminstrel> I noticed it seconds before you responded.
20151217 20:03:57< celticminstrel> Planning to add redirection too, or is that not worth it?
20151217 20:04:17< celticminstrel> I assume it doesn't just work on the front page.
20151217 20:08:35< celticminstrel> If not redirection, then maybe https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere/rulesets
20151217 20:09:35< Rhonda> Sure, one thing after another.  :)
20151217 20:09:55< celticminstrel> (The latter is redundant if you set up redirection.)
20151217 20:10:27< Rhonda> I had to exclude some domain names because of troubles to get the .well-known directory served on first try.
20151217 20:10:48< Rhonda> But yes, I guess I'll redirect http to https directly.
20151217 20:13:30< fendrin> why?
20151217 20:13:54< fendrin> why need forum access to be secure?
20151217 20:14:10< fendrin> https is difficult to cache
20151217 20:14:35< fendrin> I don't get why people like to have the whole damn internet encrypted no matter if it makes any sense or not
20151217 20:16:59-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 20:17:10< zookeeper> hrhm, so for example the newposts page is no longer cached?
20151217 20:17:13< zookeeper> oh wel
20151217 20:17:16< zookeeper> l
20151217 20:18:05-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Client Quit]
20151217 20:18:31< fendrin> zookeeper: Your local cache still works. 
20151217 20:18:41< fendrin> But your ISP has problems caching https
20151217 20:18:54< zookeeper> although of course any sensible browser would let me decide if i want stuff cached regardless of what the page says
20151217 20:19:36< fendrin> My statement is only true for the proxy cache at your ISP.
20151217 20:28:38< zookeeper> ...now it's back to normal
20151217 20:29:30-!- rstar [~Thunderbi@h-10-216-158.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 20:30:24< rstar> hello! my old programming teacher said I should check out this project, that it is lacking devs. I am a c++ programmer
20151217 20:30:34< gfgtdf> Rhonda: you'll also enable https that for wiki.weswnoth.org?
20151217 20:31:00< gfgtdf> hi rstar
20151217 20:31:16< gfgtdf> hi do you already know this game?
20151217 20:32:53< rstar> I have played it a long time ago, I am spontaniously wondering if there is some graphics code I can help fix, I read there are bugs on OS X version
20151217 20:33:16-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 20:33:53< rstar> I enjoy OpenGL Core Profile
20151217 20:35:40-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20151217 20:36:34< gfgtdf> rstar: im not the grpics expert of this project, but Aginor is currently operint the sourcecode from SDL1 to SDL2 
20151217 20:37:41< gfgtdf> rstar: alternativeley the wesnoths gui2 framework still has some bugs/open fr, specially it sometimes crashes (on too small wondows iirc) and also has lacks some useful widgets like dropboxes
20151217 20:38:48< gfgtdf> rstar: shadowm who wrote that forumpost that contained the list of known bugs on OSX might know more about those bugs.
20151217 20:44:47< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: i think when we have an automatic updater it wouldbe be good to be able to ship things like 1.13.4a 1.13.4.b 1.13.4.c with them (we dont even need to have those versions as installer packages), ideally the jenkins server could just autmatically create the update package the containes all fliles that differ form the previous version.
20151217 20:46:04< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: for example currently in 1.13.2+dev there are alradfy useful fixed and no really dangerous commit that coudl instorduce big bugs so that if you could for example have 'ship current master via update' would be quite nice
20151217 20:48:56< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: it already lets you download just wesnoth.exe
20151217 20:49:08< loonycyborg> and you can checkout data files with git..
20151217 20:50:28< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: yes i can do that but not all the user can do that .
20151217 20:53:15< rstar> gfgtdf: ok do you have the link to the post about OS X bugs?
20151217 20:54:30< gfgtdf> rstar: i meant the  wesnoth 1.13.2(or any aother version) release announcement in the forums
20151217 20:56:48< gfgtdf> rstar: this one for example: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=591562#p591508
20151217 21:00:24< rstar> "Fullscreen mode does not fill the entire screen when maximum resolution is selected in Preferences → Display, and user interface elements are scaled and distorted." // there is not bug number
20151217 21:02:26< rstar> I can't find a bug report on this
20151217 21:03:30< rstar> brb
20151217 21:03:32-!- rstar [~Thunderbi@h-10-216-158.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: rstar]
20151217 21:06:10-!- rstar [~Thunderbi@155.4.62.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 21:08:38< Rhonda> gfgtdf: Yes, but wiki was one of those sites I had trouble to get into the cert, I wasn't able to get the /.well-known/ directory served for it directly.  Needs a bit more adjusted. :)
20151217 21:09:49< fendrin> Rhonda: I think having https as an option is fine but redirecting is not a good thing.
20151217 21:10:53< Rhonda> fendrin: Why not?
20151217 21:10:57< fendrin> https means no cache/proxy at isp side
20151217 21:11:05< fendrin> and that means slower for the end user
20151217 21:11:09< fendrin> more traffic for the isp
20151217 21:11:17< fendrin> more traffic for the wesnoth server
20151217 21:11:20< Rhonda> what cache/proxy at what isp side?
20151217 21:11:26-!- iceiceice [~chris@wesnoth/developer/iceiceice] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20151217 21:11:35< fendrin> every isp uses proxies
20151217 21:11:45< fendrin> they safe a lot of money with them
20151217 21:11:47< Rhonda> That's news to me.
20151217 21:12:11< Rhonda> And I worked for an ISP for six years.  And have a fair amount of collegues working in that sector, too.
20151217 21:12:54< Rhonda> You know how big a general proxy for all ISP users would be and how low the actual hitrate would be because of diversity of users?
20151217 21:13:28< fendrin> My colleques works for a company which sells proxies for isps
20151217 21:13:34< Rhonda> It would cost way more hardware wise than it would bring them …
20151217 21:14:11< Rhonda> That's what peering agreements are for.
20151217 21:22:48< rstar> this is one huge git repository!
20151217 21:23:01< Rhonda> Ha, found my mistake.
20151217 21:23:27< Rhonda> gfgtdf: wiki done after I also fixed the other site that I had troubles with.
20151217 21:23:30-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20151217 21:23:58< gfgtdf> Rhonda: does it redirect or does http still work ?
20151217 21:24:26< Rhonda> I don't redirect yet, but I guess I'll add redirects for the login pages explicitly.
20151217 21:24:50< Rhonda> Maybe I can get redirects for people sending the authentication cookies too, will have to look into.
20151217 21:25:24< gfgtdf> Rhonda: hmm page: https://wiki.wesnoth.org still gives me a connected not trusted error
20151217 21:27:22< rstar> cert is valid for  www.wesnoth.org, forums.wesnoth.org, wesnoth.org, addons.wesnoth.org, devdocs.wesnoth.org, files.wesnoth.org, replays.wesnoth.org, units.wesnoth.org 
20151217 21:28:04< Rhonda> rstar: Tell me something new  ;)
20151217 21:28:17 * Rhonda . o O ( I created it )
20151217 21:28:27< Rhonda> Ah, that was for gfgtdf.
20151217 21:28:39< Rhonda> gfgtdf, let me quote myself: <Rhonda> gfgtdf: wiki done after I also fixed the other site that I had troubles with.
20151217 21:28:47 * Rhonda emphasizes on the *after*
20151217 21:32:18< gfgtdf> Rhonda: i interpreded it as that you already fixed both and fixed the other one first.
20151217 21:34:06< Rhonda> fsckfsckfsck
20151217 21:35:37< Rhonda> I fucked it up … ValueError: Error signing certificate: 429 {"type":"urn:acme:error:rateLimited","detail":"Error creating new cer
20151217 21:35:40< Rhonda> t :: Too many certificates already issued for: wesnoth.org","status":429}
20151217 21:36:35 * Rhonda . o O ( and I didn't think of storing the former version somewhere … )
20151217 21:36:50< Rhonda> So we are back to without ssl for the moment, terribly sorry.  :'(
20151217 21:37:12< fendrin> oh, I feel so unsecure!
20151217 21:37:23< Rhonda> Way more than before, right??
20151217 21:37:29< fendrin> yeah
20151217 21:37:49< Rhonda> Did you use https even though the cert was expired since a month?  :)
20151217 21:37:50< fendrin> time for my aluminium hat.
20151217 21:40:35< Rhonda> Ah, collectd gives me even more troubles.  :)
20151217 21:49:30< gfgtdf> rstar: there are also bugs that are were never reported in the bugtracker., but its also possible that the bugnumber wa just fogotten
20151217 21:50:52< gfgtdf> rstar: but note that some of those bugs are expected be be fixed my moving to SDL2
20151217 21:50:58< gfgtdf> rstar: this coudl be one of them
20151217 21:51:25-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 21:54:03< rstar> gfgtdf: yes I will try out the sdl2 branch
20151217 22:02:32< Rhonda> grmpf.  r.wesnoth.org gives me troubles …
20151217 22:08:42-!- rstar [~Thunderbi@155.4.62.238] has quit [Quit: rstar]
20151217 22:19:00< Rhonda> Ok, can't wrap my head around r.wesnoth.org
20151217 22:26:11 * shadowm just arrived.
20151217 22:27:21-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 22:28:02< shadowm> "An error occurred during a connection to wesnoth.org. SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length. (Error code: ssl_error_rx_record_too_long)"
20151217 22:28:32< shadowm> Rhonda: I'm getting this with https://wesnoth.org/ on Firefox 43 on Debian stretch.
20151217 22:30:33< shadowm> Oh I guess you know that already, didn't catch the tail of the log.
20151217 22:30:36< Rhonda> Oh fuck.
20151217 22:30:48< Rhonda> You'll have to wait 7 days (currently 5 certificates / 7 days).
20151217 22:31:40< Rhonda> shadowm: It's disabled again for now because I seriously fucked it up.  :/
20151217 22:32:13< celticminstrel> Does the issue lie in getting a certificate that's not self-signed?
20151217 22:32:32< Rhonda> celticminstrel: Yes, and I fumbled.
20151217 22:33:03< Rhonda> I could re-add the cacert certificate (after renewing it), but that's not a trusted one and we are back at square 1
20151217 22:33:36< celticminstrel> So I guess even if it's not trusted you can still work on getting the HTTPS stuff actually working, unless you already finished that.
20151217 22:34:25< Rhonda> Sure, I'm doing that.  Only r.wesnoth is giving me troubles right now.
20151217 22:34:40< celticminstrel> Maybe also what shadowm said?
20151217 22:34:50< celticminstrel> Or is that the same?
20151217 22:35:09< Rhonda> I disabled listening on port 443 completely after he said that. :)
20151217 22:35:22< shadowm> What's the issue with r.wesnoth.org?
20151217 22:35:49< shadowm> That it uses http:// explicitly?
20151217 22:38:39< Rhonda> nope.
20151217 22:40:36< Rhonda> shadowm: GET -dS http://www.wesnoth.org/.well-known/acme-challenge/test # compared to GET -dS http://r.wesnoth.org/.well-known/acme-challenge/test
20151217 22:40:50< Rhonda> I'm unable to make r.wesnoth.org redirect the /.well-known/ directory.
20151217 22:41:00< Rhonda> erm, *not* redirect it, that is.
20151217 22:41:30< shadowm> wedge009: Are you sure PR #562 covers all changes? The logs show c98f3e029d243a4bd47c33df74be02f03141215c, followed by 5bd79efa8b615e020ed6adc6abd036133cc739e7 (only this one gets reverted immediately afterwards) and then the commit that the PR reverts.
20151217 22:41:54< shadowm> wedge009: So I'm curious what role c98f3e029d243a4bd47c33df74be02f03141215c plays in all this.
20151217 22:45:07< shadowm> Rhonda: Maybe just change the redirect rules to use mod_rewrite instead of mod_alias?
20151217 22:45:35< Rhonda> shadowm: When I tried that the others didn't work.   xD
20151217 22:45:50< Rhonda> A simple replace of RedirectMatch by RewriteRule wasn't working.
20151217 22:46:49< Rhonda> GET http://r.wesnoth.org/f12345 → http://wesnoth.org/?f=12345
20151217 22:46:55< Rhonda> That's not really better.  ;)
20151217 22:47:20< Rhonda> And I have no clue what's the issue there to be honest.
20151217 22:48:16-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054138048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20151217 22:50:22< shadowm> Okay, so removing `RedirectMatch ^        http://wesnoth.org/` at the end surely would allow it to work anyway, right?
20151217 22:51:54< Rhonda> yes
20151217 22:51:57< shadowm> I don't think we terribly need unrecognized r.wesnoth.org URLs to map to somewhere that exists. And maybe this one alone can be changed to be handled using mod_rewrite so everything else works?
20151217 22:53:37< Rhonda> No, that would still trigger after the RewriteMatch [L] for the /.well-known which I had originally.
20151217 22:54:24< Rhonda> Well, yes, I leave that one commented out until I figured out why it's not working.  It's not that relevant.
20151217 22:54:43< Rhonda> Ha.  Maybe a hack of custom /404 page that redirects to www.wesnoth.org would work.  :P
20151217 22:54:45< shadowm> Isn't that precisely what we want so .well-known works?
20151217 22:58:26-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20151217 22:59:13-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 23:01:54-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20151217 23:03:14-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 23:17:42-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD119104004127.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151217 23:35:13-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
--- Log closed Fri Dec 18 00:00:57 2015