--- Log opened Mon Dec 21 00:00:37 2015
20151221 00:05:59-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20151221 00:40:52< gfgtdf> i dont now whether its the ne water animation, the SDL2 movement or maybe something differnet but when i play dead water scenario1 on 1.13.2+dev its laggs very much
20151221 00:41:02< gfgtdf> this doesnt happen on 1.12.5
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20151221 03:08:23< celticminstrel> vultraz: My first impression is that it doesn't look good at all.
20151221 03:08:35< celticminstrel> It crashed on Armageddon Drake, as well.
20151221 03:08:38< vultraz> ugh
20151221 03:08:53< celticminstrel> The main reason it doesn't look good is because it's too big.
20151221 03:09:07< celticminstrel> I dunno why it crashed.
20151221 03:11:18< celticminstrel> vultraz: Is commit af7fb25 related to using the large unit portraits in help?
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20151221 03:13:54< celticminstrel> The crash seems to be one I recall you or Aginor attempting to fix.
20151221 03:14:14< vultraz> celticminstrel: is that the thing that increases the help browser size?
20151221 03:14:26< vultraz> if so, it is related, but imo should stay
20151221 03:14:50< celticminstrel> Yes, it's the increase of help browser size.
20151221 03:15:25< celticminstrel> WML exception:
20151221 03:15:25< celticminstrel> User message: The maximum text width is less than 1.
20151221 03:15:27< celticminstrel> Dev message: Condition 'max_width > 0' failed at marked-up_text.cpp:441 in function 'word_wrap_text'.
20151221 03:17:19< vultraz> blagh
20151221 03:27:09< celticminstrel> It definitely looks better with the smaller form of the portrait, though I also think it's a bit nicer transparent.
20151221 03:27:38< celticminstrel> If it's not reverted I think you should at the very least put back the hardcoded ~SCALE that you removed.
20151221 03:28:40< celticminstrel> Still, I think it'd be beneficial to keep small_profile since it allows people to crop larger portraits such as horsemen.
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20151221 03:29:25< celticminstrel> On the assets side, I think it's silly to have separate small and large portraits, but on the WML side I think it's not a bad thing.
20151221 03:30:27< celticminstrel> This is completely unrelated to what you changed, but I'm not sure I like how the help browser scales up the unit sprites.
20151221 03:33:04< vultraz> why?
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20151221 03:33:18< celticminstrel> To which question?
20151221 03:33:29< celticminstrel> I mean statement.
20151221 03:34:41< vultraz> Scaling of sprites
20151221 03:35:03< celticminstrel> Sprites aren't made to be scaled up. They look pixellated and not very good.
20151221 03:35:27< vultraz> It uses the XBRZ method iceiceice added
20151221 03:35:34< vultraz> It's a lot nicer than ~SCALE
20151221 03:36:29< celticminstrel> I suppose, but I still think it'd look best at 100%.
20151221 03:37:04< iceiceice> celticminstrel: i think at the time some people complained that the were too small in the help browser
20151221 03:37:07< iceiceice> *the
20151221 03:37:09< iceiceice> the
20151221 03:37:10< iceiceice> wow
20151221 03:37:12< iceiceice> they
20151221 03:37:15< celticminstrel> I see.
20151221 03:37:21< iceiceice> my keyboard having problems :/
20151221 03:37:30< iceiceice> the ~XBRZ in help browser is an experiment,
20151221 03:37:42< iceiceice> if people really don't like it then we should change it back
20151221 03:38:14< iceiceice> imo
20151221 03:38:31< vultraz> I like it
20151221 03:38:39< celticminstrel> Well, I was stating only my own opinion.
20151221 03:39:01< iceiceice> i mean what are the other things we could do
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20151221 03:39:05< iceiceice> we could make it like a preference or something
20151221 03:39:07< iceiceice> or,
20151221 03:39:18< iceiceice> make it so that the are small, but you mouse over them to make it big or something liek that?
20151221 03:39:25< iceiceice> but that would require a good deal of coding in the help browser
20151221 03:39:54< vultraz> good god
20151221 03:40:05< vultraz> no, don't add such stuff to the help browser
20151221 03:40:08< iceiceice> hehe
20151221 03:40:16< vultraz> that mess of code needs to be throws out the window and redone
20151221 03:40:24< vultraz> it's an abomination 
20151221 03:40:35< vultraz> but it would be nice as a general gui feature
20151221 03:40:42< vultraz> like in dota
20151221 03:40:51< vultraz> also, dont make it a preference 
20151221 03:41:04< vultraz> we should not make everything that might be controversial a preference 
20151221 03:41:13< vultraz> (this is why I intend to eventually remove Reverse Time Graphics)
20151221 03:41:23< vultraz> (the logic for introducing that change was *absurd*)
20151221 03:42:07< celticminstrel> "Reverse Time Graphics"?
20151221 03:44:20< vultraz> celticminstrel: it makes the tod image with the sun/moon go from left-to-right to right-to-left
20151221 03:44:25< vultraz> because "southern hemisphere"
20151221 03:44:27< vultraz> >_>
20151221 03:45:06< iceiceice> wow
20151221 03:45:10< iceiceice> how does it know that it should do that?
20151221 03:45:14< celticminstrel> Uh, what has hemisphere got to do with that.
20151221 03:45:16< iceiceice> based on OS timezoen or something?
20151221 03:45:25< iceiceice> i mean...
20151221 03:45:26< iceiceice> what??
20151221 03:45:33< celticminstrel> Timezones wouldn't reveal hemisphere.
20151221 03:45:41< iceiceice> yeah... but surely some localization would?
20151221 03:45:47< celticminstrel> Probably?
20151221 03:46:04< celticminstrel> Admittedly, timezones do tend to be overspecified.
20151221 03:46:17< celticminstrel> ...well, considering DST, maybe it's not entirely overspecified though.
20151221 03:46:50< iceiceice> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7830351/is-there-an-easy-way-to-determine-which-hemisphere-a-user-is-in
20151221 03:46:59< celticminstrel> Still, if timezone is specified as a city, I guess that reveals hemisphere, but um... the change doesn't actually make sense right?
20151221 03:47:39< iceiceice> according to SO, daylight savings is configured differently if you are in northern or southern hemisphere?
20151221 03:47:49< iceiceice> so you can determine it somehow from this?
20151221 03:47:59< iceiceice> vultraz: where is the reverse time graphics stuff in the code
20151221 03:48:04< iceiceice> i have to see this for myself :p
20151221 03:48:08< celticminstrel> Probably.
20151221 03:48:21< celticminstrel> Anyway I assumed it was just a preference, not auto-detected.
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20151221 03:50:30< celticminstrel> But I don't get why you'd want to reverse them in the southern hemisphere.
20151221 03:51:11< iceiceice> yeah that doesn't really make any sense
20151221 03:51:33< iceiceice> what is supposed to happen at the equator in irdya?
20151221 03:51:37< iceiceice> sun and moon do not move at all?
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20151221 03:54:59< Necrosporus> Why should I use Lua for addons even if I maybe like some other language better?
20151221 03:55:38< Necrosporus> Do you think that it's possible and/or a good idea to add other languages, such as Guile, Squirrel or Tcl?
20151221 03:56:36< celticminstrel> Well obviously it's possible.
20151221 03:57:03< Necrosporus> is it extremely hard?
20151221 03:57:07< celticminstrel> I feel like it would be a maintenance nightmare.
20151221 03:57:08< iceiceice> Necrosporus: it might be easier to make a compiler for one of those languages
20151221 03:57:10< iceiceice> that compiles it to lua
20151221 03:57:15< iceiceice> and use that
20151221 03:57:20< celticminstrel> I don't think it would be significantly harder than adding Lua was.
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20151221 03:57:26< celticminstrel> But I have no idea how hard that was.
20151221 03:57:45< celticminstrel> Well, depending on the language though, some might be harder to work with on the C++ side.
20151221 03:57:51< iceiceice> celticminstrel: using lua as wesnoth does, requires writing C bindings that connect the engine to lua
20151221 03:58:00< iceiceice> theres like thousands of lines of bindings functions
20151221 03:58:10< iceiceice> reproducing that work would be extremely painful i think
20151221 03:58:21< celticminstrel> Also, the fact that Lua has already been added actually makes it even harder to add support for other languages.
20151221 03:58:40< Necrosporus> Why has been Lua choosen?
20151221 03:58:42< celticminstrel> If you wanted to support multiple scripting languages it should've been designed with that in mind from the start.
20151221 03:58:54< celticminstrel> I imagine Lua was chosen because it's simple, compact, whatever.
20151221 03:59:07< iceiceice> lua is an extremely popular choice for game engines
20151221 03:59:21< iceiceice> like, every other engine has a lua scripting layer i guess
20151221 03:59:34< iceiceice> iiuc we tried python first,
20151221 03:59:38< iceiceice> and for various reasons that was removed
20151221 03:59:41< iceiceice> and lua was added instead
20151221 04:00:05< iceiceice> Necrosporus: i never heard of Guile or Squirrel before
20151221 04:00:17< iceiceice> i heard of Tcl but my understanding was that it doesn't really have broad appeal
20151221 04:01:13< Necrosporus> iceiceice, Tcl was designed as an embeddable scripting language
20151221 04:01:41< iceiceice> huh i see
20151221 04:01:49< iceiceice> i guess many game engines do choose tcl
20151221 04:01:51< Necrosporus> Lua was developed because the developers in Latin America did not have a good internet access as I heard
20151221 04:02:08< Necrosporus> iceiceice, I do not know about any engines which do
20151221 04:02:18< iceiceice> idk i googled and i got a few hits
20151221 04:02:46< Necrosporus> interesting
20151221 04:03:19< iceiceice> heres what this guy says: http://www.cs.mun.ca/~donald/msc/node23.html
20151221 04:03:32< iceiceice> One of the more serious shortcomings of Tcl/Tk is the lack of a rich set of data structures. The only true data types in Tcl are strings and associative arrays.gif The string type is also used to provide support for integers and floating point numbers and for lists as well. The lack of aggregate data structures increases the need for global variables as a means of inter-procedural and inter-module communication in situations where proce
20151221 04:03:32< iceiceice> dural parameters are not possible. This problem is compounded by the lack of namespaces which can seriously compromise an effective modular design. As a result, Tcl scripts do not scale very well.
20151221 04:04:11< iceiceice> thats what he says about disadvantages anyways
20151221 04:04:24< iceiceice> lua is like, at the same time quite simple and also extremely feature rich and mature
20151221 04:04:35< iceiceice> lua tables are a really nice data structure imo
20151221 04:04:47< iceiceice> and lua has lots of awesome stuff like closures and coroutines
20151221 04:05:21< iceiceice> i guess thats not much related to why it was chosen for wesnoth probably, since i guess originally we didn't use any of that
20151221 04:05:36< Necrosporus> iceiceice, there are namespaces in Tcl
20151221 04:05:41< iceiceice> but imo providing a portable coroutines implementation is an extremely awesome feature
20151221 04:05:45< Necrosporus> And dicts
20151221 04:05:57< Necrosporus> it's unrelated to modern versions of Tcl
20151221 04:06:00< iceiceice> oh ok
20151221 04:07:17< Necrosporus> iceiceice, there are coroutines in Tcl too
20151221 04:07:39< Necrosporus> I'm not sure about closures though, maybe they are there too
20151221 04:07:57< Necrosporus> Also Tcl has a much richer standard library and native unicode support
20151221 04:09:32< iceiceice> Necrosporus: yeah i see
20151221 04:09:37< iceiceice> i guess i personally don't know
20151221 04:09:43< iceiceice> i never looked at Tcl, and no one ever told me i should
20151221 04:09:50< celticminstrel> And its own personal regex syntax.
20151221 04:09:53< iceiceice> and i guess i dont know of programs that are written in Tcl
20151221 04:09:56< celticminstrel> Though to be fair, Lua does that one too.
20151221 04:10:01< iceiceice> but it might indeed be a very nice tech
20151221 04:10:07< iceiceice> i am trying to read this article i found
20151221 04:10:07< iceiceice> http://journal.dedasys.com/2010/03/30/where-tcl-and-tk-went-wrong/
20151221 04:10:11< iceiceice> it might not be unbiased though
20151221 04:12:12< celticminstrel> I looked at Tcl years ago, but I don't remember much about it.
20151221 04:12:13< iceiceice> celticminstrel: i mean, what is the "official" regex syntax?
20151221 04:12:30< celticminstrel> I dunno, maybe Perl's?
20151221 04:12:35< Necrosporus> Tcl's regex syntax is fairly standard
20151221 04:12:43< celticminstrel> Actually, Tcl is probably closer than Lua to Perl.
20151221 04:12:57< celticminstrel> And Lua might also support the more standard syntax for all I know.
20151221 04:13:04< iceiceice> i guess that C++ will have its own regex syntax now
20151221 04:13:15< iceiceice> i dont know if it is different from perl though
20151221 04:13:23< celticminstrel> I mean just the regex syntax there when comparing them to Perl.
20151221 04:15:03< iceiceice> Necrosporus: i mean also we can think about it as like a domain thing
20151221 04:15:10< iceiceice> in lua i guess
20151221 04:15:28< iceiceice> there's very strong support for dumb, easy, OO-style stuff
20151221 04:15:33< iceiceice> like unit.hitpoints
20151221 04:15:43< iceiceice> unit.attacks[3].etc
20151221 04:16:05< iceiceice> you can make tables and use them as filters,
20151221 04:16:12< Necrosporus> There's OOP in standard Tcl since 8.6 too
20151221 04:16:13< iceiceice> its actually not that great a match for wml i guess
20151221 04:16:22< Necrosporus> it was available through extensions before
20151221 04:16:28< iceiceice> because fo the whole thing where a tag can repeat as a wml child but not in a lua table
20151221 04:16:37< iceiceice> hmm ok
20151221 04:16:56< Necrosporus> I did not learn about its syntax much though
20151221 04:16:59< iceiceice> Necrosporus: how recent is this stuff in Tcl though?
20151221 04:17:07< iceiceice> i guess lua was probably aded in like,
20151221 04:17:12< iceiceice> 2007 or 2008 or something?
20151221 04:17:18< iceiceice> hmm
20151221 04:17:51< iceiceice> there is this forum post from December 2007
20151221 04:17:51< iceiceice> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19082
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20151221 04:18:21< Necrosporus> iceiceice, I'm not sure
20151221 04:18:38< iceiceice> Necrosporus: it looks like they were still arguing even at the end of that thread in mid 2008
20151221 04:18:56< iceiceice> it looks like silene did it?
20151221 04:19:02< iceiceice> maybe in jan 2009 ?
20151221 04:19:33< iceiceice> Necrosporus: i mean one explanation also is
20151221 04:19:45< iceiceice> people implement what they know and what they like
20151221 04:19:53< iceiceice> if someone was working on another game negine that used lua,
20151221 04:19:53< Necrosporus> iceiceice, Tcl 8.6 appeared in 2012, but 8.5 is fine too, it appeared in 2007
20151221 04:20:01< iceiceice> i mean it became pretty popular
20151221 04:24:32< Necrosporus> At the time I have only started to switch to GNU/Linux, and I have seen Wesnoth on some "gamer" distribution on LiveCD, it was 1.6 perhaps
20151221 04:24:53< Necrosporus> Though I was not interested until 1.8.0 came out
20151221 04:25:07< Necrosporus> Then I saw news and tried installing Wesnoth
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20151221 05:01:26< Necrosporus> iceiceice, is there an example of existing campaingn for Wesnoth which is written in Lua?
20151221 05:02:22< iceiceice> Necrosporus: i think it's not possible to write it without any wml at all
20151221 05:02:43< iceiceice> i think you need to use wml for the usual "top level tags"
20151221 05:02:52< iceiceice> i dont think those can be generated by lua
20151221 05:03:17< iceiceice> i dont know if there are campaigns that use "mostly" lua
20151221 05:03:39< iceiceice> if i understand, then vultraz and shadowm's campaigns use a lot of lua
20151221 05:03:50< iceiceice> but i dont know it from first hand
20151221 05:04:28< Necrosporus> Is lua code more readable?
20151221 05:05:03< iceiceice> i think for almost all campaigns wml is totally adequate
20151221 05:05:17< iceiceice> and actually, the lua bindings layer is a bit awkward
20151221 05:05:27< iceiceice> so a lot of things, i simpl would not attempt in lua
20151221 05:05:36< iceiceice> but for somethings that involve more traditional data manipulation
20151221 05:05:46< iceiceice> like doing any kind of math or string manipulation
20151221 05:05:52< iceiceice> or a data structure or something,
20151221 05:05:55< iceiceice> i would use lua
20151221 05:06:12< iceiceice> i think lua is a lot more comfortable for all of those things
20151221 05:09:59< Necrosporus> iceiceice, do you find idea on wesnoth world based RTS appealing?
20151221 05:10:05< Aginor> hi vultraz 
20151221 05:10:13< Aginor> is your question still relevant_
20151221 05:10:17< Necrosporus> With same unit and same relative stats, but RTS and probably 3d?
20151221 05:10:21< Aginor> I was soundly asleep when you asked
20151221 05:10:22< iceiceice> hehe
20151221 05:10:30< iceiceice> yeah that would be cool
20151221 05:10:41< iceiceice> rts is hard though
20151221 05:10:46< Necrosporus> What about an RPG?
20151221 05:10:54< Necrosporus> Like Morrowind
20151221 05:11:00< Necrosporus> but in Wesnoth world?
20151221 05:11:17< iceiceice> i think it would be pretty cool, i guess a lot of people would like it
20151221 05:11:18< Necrosporus> OpenMW engine exists for example
20151221 05:11:38< Necrosporus> Which one does seem more appealing?
20151221 05:11:52< iceiceice> you mean like to me personally?
20151221 05:12:11< iceiceice> like to play?
20151221 05:12:14< Necrosporus> Yes (I guess you can't decide for others anyway)
20151221 05:12:20< iceiceice> well
20151221 05:12:32< iceiceice> i guess i would probably play either or both if they existed
20151221 05:12:44< iceiceice> i mean whether i liked it would come down to execution i guess
20151221 05:13:04< iceiceice> i dont think of myself as an rpg gamer, but i guess i did play rpgs in the past
20151221 05:13:15< Necrosporus> but which one would you prefer to be developed if there were resources for only one of them?
20151221 05:13:16< iceiceice> i'm not really an rts gamer either tho
20151221 05:13:19< iceiceice> hmmmm
20151221 05:13:42< Necrosporus> Also 2D or 3D?
20151221 05:13:45< iceiceice> i guess i would prefer to see which ever one would succeed as a project :)
20151221 05:13:51< Necrosporus> 2D could reuse wesnoth sprites
20151221 05:14:11< iceiceice> i think making a good RTS is a lot harder than you think
20151221 05:14:15< iceiceice> *than you might think
20151221 05:14:24< iceiceice> because real time networking is not really easy
20151221 05:14:25< Aginor> Necrosporus: not really, you'd need to add the other directions
20151221 05:14:41< Aginor> iceiceice: it's not that hard either :D
20151221 05:14:43< iceiceice> and making a good play experience is very difficult
20151221 05:14:53< Necrosporus> iceiceice, it could be singleplayer
20151221 05:14:55< iceiceice> Aginor: it depends like who you are targetting
20151221 05:14:57< Aginor> that is true
20151221 05:15:00< Necrosporus> then no network is needed at all
20151221 05:15:02< iceiceice> like in wesnoth theres people every where who pla yit
20151221 05:15:04< iceiceice> on all kinds of machines
20151221 05:15:07< iceiceice> far away from eachother
20151221 05:15:15< iceiceice> we dont need to have like a "Europe" server
20151221 05:15:18< iceiceice> and a "China" server
20151221 05:15:19< Aginor> you do come up agaist latency issues
20151221 05:15:33< Aginor> that's the biggest killer
20151221 05:15:38< Aginor> the speed of light is hard to beat
20151221 05:15:42< iceiceice> heh
20151221 05:15:47< Necrosporus> There are other genres, also
20151221 05:16:37< Necrosporus> iceiceice, do you think that Wesnoth fantasy setting would be better that some other setting for a game?
20151221 05:16:40< Aginor> Necrosporus: I think a wesnoth themed space shooter might be neat ;)
20151221 05:16:53< Necrosporus> That's doubtful
20151221 05:17:00< Aginor> :D
20151221 05:17:04< Necrosporus> How can it be wesnoth-themed if it is space shooter?
20151221 05:17:06< iceiceice> haha
20151221 05:17:18< Aginor> Necrosporus: it's in a time far far away
20151221 05:17:18< iceiceice> maybe can resurrect Bob the might's spacenoth spinoff project
20151221 05:17:27< iceiceice> he told me he still has most of the art from spacenoth
20151221 05:17:37< Aginor> nice!
20151221 05:17:41< iceiceice> galactic empires i guess
20151221 05:17:44< iceiceice> is his mod
20151221 05:18:43< Necrosporus> What programming languages you know and like more?
20151221 05:19:29< iceiceice> i work a lot in C++11 right now
20151221 05:19:38< iceiceice> i actually like it a lot,
20151221 05:19:43< iceiceice> i would like to learn rust,
20151221 05:19:51< Necrosporus> What about D?
20151221 05:19:52< iceiceice> i think that is probably going to be the future in some sense
20151221 05:20:04< iceiceice> i guess i think rust is probably going to be better than D
20151221 05:20:17< iceiceice> but i think rust is also not that mature yet
20151221 05:20:20< iceiceice> it's getting there
20151221 05:21:07< iceiceice> hard to say
20151221 05:25:50< Necrosporus> I wonder if WML syntax is better than say YAML for unit data description
20151221 05:30:01< iceiceice> i guess fabi thought about it a lot, he seemed to think moonscript was the way to go
20151221 05:30:25< iceiceice> i mean, lua tables, json tables, yaml, are not all that different i guess
20151221 05:30:51< iceiceice> general lua tables are pretty complicated, but if you don't allow tables as keys and all that...
20151221 05:42:11< iceiceice> gn folks
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20151221 06:13:06< vultraz> Aginor: yes
20151221 06:13:58< vultraz> Aginor: if I can condition off the bpp stuff to SDL1, it'll be easier to know what I have to deal with for sdl2
20151221 06:14:27< vultraz> Aginor: given the existing conditionals as outlined above, it doesn't really seem like it does much of anything in sdl2
20151221 06:14:34< vultraz> (this bpp stuff)
20151221 06:14:48< zookeeper> gfgtdf, if the lag is only when initially scrolling around the map, and stops after a while, then yes it's the new water.
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20151221 06:23:41< vultraz> celticminstrel: actually, the reverse time stuff isn't as smart as you think :P
20151221 06:23:52< vultraz> celticminstrel: it's just an advance prefs toggle
20151221 06:24:19< vultraz> if on, it switches the order of the two tod night and two day images that have the sun and moon
20151221 06:24:47< vultraz> hm
20151221 06:24:55< vultraz> actually, no, I believe it uses ~FLIP()
20151221 06:28:30< vultraz> 	if (preferences::flip_time()) tod_image += "~FL(horiz)";
20151221 06:36:44< Aginor> vultraz: the bpp (bits per pixel) is about colour depth, it matters across both sdl1 and sdl2, but less so in sdl2
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20151221 06:41:55< vultraz> Aginor: color depth?
20151221 06:42:13< Aginor> yes...
20151221 06:42:53< Aginor> https://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-1.2.15/docs/html/sdlsetvideomode.html
20151221 06:42:58< Aginor> might give you another pointer
20151221 06:45:41< vultraz> "If bpp is 0, it is treated as the current display bits per pixel."
20151221 06:45:43< vultraz> hmmm
20151221 06:45:50< vultraz> but set_video_mode isn't in sdl2
20151221 06:46:00< Aginor> no
20151221 06:48:44< vultraz> it is?
20151221 06:48:59< Aginor> <agreement>
20151221 06:49:09< vultraz> oh, ok
20151221 06:49:41< vultraz> but why would you want to use something other than the current display value?
20151221 06:50:12< Aginor> you wouldn't as long as you want to render thigns
20151221 06:50:43< vultraz> So, it should always be.... 0
20151221 06:50:54< Aginor> except for when you initialise
20151221 06:51:59< vultraz> so where does this arbitrary 24 value come from
20151221 06:52:40< Aginor> which arbitrary 24?
20151221 06:53:06< vultraz> 	int DefaultBPP = 24; in detect_video_settings
20151221 06:53:10< Aginor> if you want better answers you need to tell me more of what you're looking at :)
20151221 06:53:16< Aginor> probably legacy code
20151221 06:53:21< vultraz> I thought I was detailed enough above
20151221 06:53:41< zookeeper> ?
20151221 06:53:55< zookeeper> 24 == 8 for each of r,g,b
20151221 06:54:03< vultraz> oh, hm
20151221 06:54:10< vultraz> I guess that's why game_launcher::init_video() has a value where it's set to 32
20151221 06:54:16< vultraz> 	} else if (cmdline_opts_.screenshot) {
20151221 06:54:16< Aginor> you want to have an alpha though
20151221 06:54:17< vultraz> 		bpp = 32;
20151221 06:54:19< vultraz> 	}
20151221 06:54:31< Aginor> see, now you're starting to tell me what code you're looking at
20151221 06:54:41< Aginor> and I can bring it up too instead of guessing :)
20151221 06:54:45< vultraz> :P
20151221 06:55:15< vultraz> Ok, so I'm looking at game_launcher::init_video(), preferences::detect_video_settings(), and CVideo::modePossible()
20151221 06:56:06< vultraz> The first has a bpp value of 0 (that can be changed, but let's leave that for now). It then calls the second function above, which passes its bpp argument to the last function
20151221 06:56:13< vultraz> however, in SDL2 that function simply returns it back
20151221 06:57:14< vultraz> So what I think I'm observing is that the bpp value doesn't affect much of anything in sdl2
20151221 06:57:39< Aginor> as far as I've ascertained, that's correct
20151221 06:58:00< Aginor> mucking about with it is likely to lead to severe breakage
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20151221 07:01:28< vultraz> yeah I already broke my local build trying to quarantine some bits off :P
20151221 07:02:46< Aginor> I'd not touch that code until we rip sdl1 out and then completely replace it with the one call to sdl2 that matters
20151221 07:03:07< vultraz> yeah I think I'll probably wait
20151221 07:03:07< Aginor> there's some groundwork that can/needs to happen first though
20151221 07:03:19< vultraz> it's so hard working with this while having to maintain legacy support
20151221 07:03:25< Aginor> yes :)
20151221 07:04:08< vultraz> there's a lot of legacy stuff here that can be replaced but it will probably require a lot of refactoring
20151221 07:04:26< Aginor> which is on the TODO list
20151221 07:04:57< Aginor> I'm feeling really slow, but I still don't think I understand what it is you're trying to accomplish
20151221 07:05:40< vultraz> Well I was hoping to refactor handling of window flags
20151221 07:05:44< vultraz> and resolutions 
20151221 07:05:51< Aginor> ah
20151221 07:05:56< Aginor> pick something easier :)
20151221 07:05:58< vultraz> Our 'resolutions' are actually display sizes
20151221 07:06:32< vultraz> Though I guess it's possible to have a fullscreen game session with less than native resolution, but that's dumb
20151221 07:06:52< vultraz> So I considered having just a fullscreen/windowed toggle, but you said that would break SDL1
20151221 07:06:57< Aginor> change SDL_WINDOW_FULLSCREEN_DESKTOP to SDL_WINDOW_FULLSCREEN and they're real resolutions agin
20151221 07:06:59< vultraz> So I thought I'd lay some groundwork
20151221 07:07:07< vultraz> But turns out it's not that simple
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20151221 07:07:50< vultraz> what I ultimately want to do is have a simple check on exit (like shadowm suggested) that determines whether the game is fullscreen or windowed 
20151221 07:08:02< vultraz> and then restore that on next launch
20151221 07:08:10< vultraz> I guess we could save reoslution, but...
20151221 07:08:13< vultraz> resolution*
20151221 07:08:42< vultraz> I dunno, do you think we should always remember the last resolution or just always start maximized if in window mode
20151221 07:08:56< vultraz> (obviously the -r switch would override both of those)
20151221 07:09:41< vultraz> either way, to implement that I was trying to refactor handling of fullscreen
20151221 07:09:55< Aginor> if (disp::get_singleton()) bool fullscreen = disp::get_singleton()->video().isFullScreen()
20151221 07:10:06< vultraz> since we have twindow::fullscreen() AND preferences::set_full_screen()
20151221 07:10:11< vultraz> I think the latter is obsolete...
20151221 07:10:23< Aginor> that's the one that matters.
20151221 07:11:06-!- irker309 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20151221 07:11:06< irker309> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 0b5e960f5925 / data/campaigns/Liberty/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Defense animations for the Rogue Mage line, by Skyone http://git.io/vELWn
20151221 07:11:06< irker309> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 13aef0a542ec / data/core/about.cfg: Added SkyOne to art credits http://git.io/vELWc
20151221 07:11:33< vultraz> and then we have set_resolution() which has additional complications ...
20151221 07:11:46< Aginor> make the prefrences listen for the quit event and query the video mode there so you can store it properly
20151221 07:12:39< Aginor> long term, all stored values for video modes in prefrences should be facaded away into the video class instead of stored within the preferences
20151221 07:12:56< Aginor> let the video class worry about the video/screen/window stuff
20151221 07:13:15< vultraz> yes
20151221 07:13:26< Aginor> find and stomp out any code that tries to store it anywhere else
20151221 07:13:49< Aginor> that includes in prefrences and gui2
20151221 07:15:02< vultraz> if we switch to a simple fullscreen/windowed model, I think I can have preferences store the user-facing value for the toggle and then query that and pass relevant flags to the game launcher
20151221 07:15:36< vultraz> i wouldn't even need an on-exit flag check
20151221 07:15:41< Aginor> I think that's jumping ahead a lot
20151221 07:15:54< Aginor> you'd want to save window size and position on exit
20151221 07:16:00< vultraz> position?
20151221 07:16:07< Aginor> why not :)
20151221 07:16:20< vultraz> shouldn't our backend handle that :|
20151221 07:16:29< vultraz> ie, sdl or the os window manager
20151221 07:17:04< Aginor> sdl only does what we tell it to
20151221 07:17:16< Aginor> it has no smarts and saves nothing
20151221 07:17:25< Aginor> wm may or may not
20151221 07:17:35< Aginor> we can hint to wm about a position we want
20151221 07:17:49< Aginor> although whether we want to do that or not is questionable
20151221 07:18:08< vultraz> this is all so confusing :|
20151221 07:18:35< vultraz> windows store apps remember position and maximized status fine >_>
20151221 07:18:41< vultraz> why is it so complicated for wesnoth
20151221 07:19:18< Aginor> because it's not written in c# using the .net windows framework
20151221 07:19:28< vultraz> ah...
20151221 07:19:32< Aginor> and you're dealing with 3-5 operating systems at the same time
20151221 07:19:32< vultraz> :(
20151221 07:19:42< Aginor> build on vastly different philosophies
20151221 07:19:46< vultraz> yeah, true
20151221 07:19:56< vultraz> I just wish there were a magic Do This switch
20151221 07:20:55< Aginor> hire someone to do it for you :)
20151221 07:21:10< vultraz> heh
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20151221 07:21:29< Aginor> I can send you my contracting terms if you wish :P
20151221 07:21:38< vultraz> :P
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20151221 07:25:46< Aginor> but to come back to the original topic
20151221 07:26:02< Aginor> does those proposed changes make sense to you?
20151221 07:26:56< vultraz> my changes or your changes
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20151221 07:29:07< Aginor> it might well be possible to replace entire functions
20151221 07:29:18< Aginor> my proposed changes
20151221 07:29:32< Aginor> I think they'd solve/include your changes too
20151221 07:29:46< vultraz> well uh
20151221 07:30:01< vultraz> firstly I think we should wait until after 1.13.3
20151221 07:30:14< vultraz> then we can work out what to do
20151221 07:30:22 * Aginor shrugs
20151221 07:30:34< vultraz> I agree with keeping video mode handling in the video class
20151221 07:30:35< Aginor> if we do it in a branch it doesn't matter if we start now or later
20151221 07:30:52< Aginor> I need to fix a few of the bugs foremost
20151221 07:30:54< vultraz> are you going to make a branch dropping sdl1?
20151221 07:32:51< Aginor> no, not yet
20151221 07:32:55< Aginor> that's too early
20151221 07:33:03< Aginor> and dropping sdl1 is a 1-commit thing
20151221 07:33:09< Aginor> big commit though :)
20151221 07:33:12< vultraz> right
20151221 07:34:29< Aginor> http://dotat.at/prog/unifdef/
20151221 07:34:32< Aginor> sorted
20151221 07:36:08< Aginor> http://coan2.sourceforge.net/ might even be a better option
20151221 07:37:08< Aginor> looks extremely easy to use
20151221 07:37:15 * Aginor is looking forward to that commit
20151221 07:37:22< celticminstrel> vultraz: It was all iceiceice suggesting it was smart. :p
20151221 07:37:41< Aginor> vultraz: I was proposing a branch for tidying up the preferences and display handling
20151221 07:38:12< vultraz> Aginor: ah. and we can break sdl1 on that branch?
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20151221 07:38:29< celticminstrel> BTW, was SDL to be dropped before or after the next release?
20151221 07:38:35< Aginor> vultraz: no
20151221 07:38:41< Aginor> celticminstrel: after
20151221 07:38:41< vultraz> celticminstrel: after
20151221 07:38:46< celticminstrel> Right, okay.
20151221 07:38:58< Aginor> vultraz: no, why do we want to drop SDL1 support?
20151221 07:39:17< Aginor> just put in the macros and replace entire functions if that makes the most sense
20151221 07:39:28< Aginor> coan2 has your back
20151221 07:39:43< vultraz> Aginor: uh... just through it would be simpler 
20151221 07:41:30< celticminstrel> I forgot the 1 in my preceding comment, whoops.
20151221 07:41:50< Aginor> celticminstrel: we understood you anyway :)
20151221 07:42:00< celticminstrel> I noticed. :)
20151221 07:42:22< vultraz> Aginor: anyway if we'll be working on a branch then I think I can get to work
20151221 07:42:37< Aginor> vultraz: yes
20151221 07:43:02< vultraz> you said you had some things to fix first though?
20151221 07:43:03< Aginor> that way we can review each other's changes easily too to make sure that nothing untoward makes it back to master
20151221 07:43:14< Aginor> nothing stopping you from getting started
20151221 07:43:36< Aginor> I am apparently spending tonight reading up on work-related stuff over doing wesnoth :/
20151221 07:44:02< Aginor> christmas holiday is coming up and I need to lay down some design before then
20151221 07:44:51< vultraz> Alright, I'll get started
20151221 07:45:15< vultraz> so uh, back to the very original question, how much do we still have to handle the bpp values in sdl2?
20151221 07:45:34< vultraz> as with the current configuration, we have agreed they don't do much
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20151221 07:45:36< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7982 (master - 13aef0a : ln-zookeeper): The build has errored.
20151221 07:45:36< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/98065902
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20151221 07:46:31< Aginor> I'm tempted to say "hardcode to 32"
20151221 07:46:41< Aginor> anything else is not likely to work with opengl
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20151221 07:46:51< vultraz> OK
20151221 07:46:55< Aginor> you need 4 channels, r,g,b,a
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20151221 07:47:22< vultraz> but doesn't it need to be 0 at some point, you said?
20151221 07:47:22< Aginor> the properer answer is "use some of the sdl2 defines if you want"
20151221 07:47:25< vultraz> or can it always be 32
20151221 07:47:49< Aginor> the change resolution code can be tidied up too, and that's what using it
20151221 07:48:08< vultraz> ah
20151221 07:48:12< vultraz> alright
20151221 07:48:19< Aginor> it all goes hand in hand
20151221 07:48:21< vultraz> we can look into dropping resolutions at a later date
20151221 07:48:29< vultraz> instead of clumping that in with this
20151221 07:48:38< vultraz> anyway, im off
20151221 07:48:42< Aginor> I think that's a good idea
20151221 07:48:46< vultraz> going to see if I can see star wars again 
20151221 07:48:48< vultraz> :D
20151221 07:48:53< Aginor> nice
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20151221 07:56:42< celticminstrel> What happened to 16-bit colour components, anyway?
20151221 07:56:57< Aginor> I have no idea
20151221 07:57:11< Aginor> I didn't even realise they were a thing in wesnoth
20151221 07:57:20< celticminstrel> Quickdraw colours had 16-bit components, but everywhere else they're always 8-bit.
20151221 07:57:28< celticminstrel> No, I don't mean in Wesnoth.
20151221 07:57:32< Aginor> ah
20151221 07:57:38< celticminstrel> Just in general.
20151221 07:57:41< Aginor> people are silly and don't like colour depth
20151221 07:57:56< celticminstrel> EVerywhere else I've seen I mean.
20151221 07:58:04< Aginor> photoshop and real tools that actually need colour depth has it, must things just suck
20151221 07:58:14< Aginor> I'm not sure the gimp has finished 16bit colours yet
20151221 07:58:46< celticminstrel> Even GIMP usually seems to be 8-bit, yeah.
20151221 07:59:08< Aginor> they were supposedly working on it years ago, but I never followed up on it
20151221 07:59:15< celticminstrel> Do we call then 16-bit colours (by component size) or 64-bit colours (buy total size)?
20151221 07:59:16< Aginor> it's just disappointing :/
20151221 07:59:20< celticminstrel> ^them
20151221 07:59:26< celticminstrel> ^by
20151221 07:59:29< Aginor> by component
20151221 07:59:53< Aginor> different colour models can use different numbers of channels
20151221 08:13:08< celticminstrel> I think some colour models also don't have all channels the same width.
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20151221 12:11:37< irker231> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 203f7b0ded2d / data/ (campaigns/Dead_Water/scenarios/09_The_Mage.cfg lua/wml-tags.lua): clenaup DW scenario9 scorpion placement code. http://git.io/vEtPb
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20151221 13:12:56< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#7983 (master - 203f7b0 : gfgtdf): The build passed.
20151221 13:12:56< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/98103849
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20151221 19:41:39< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
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20151221 19:43:40< irker547> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 9b7b1751fdda / src/ (136 files in 20 dirs): Removed trailing tabs and whitespaces from C++ source http://git.io/vEYXF
20151221 19:46:29< Elvish_Hunter> gfgtdf, vultraz: I did exactly what you asked yesterday :)
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20151221 19:49:41< Elvish_Hunter> Sure it wasn't easy (it ended up becoming a crash course on Bash and sed), but it was better than opening each file with an IDE and fixing it :P
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20151221 19:54:09< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: ty
20151221 19:54:57< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: visual studio has a 'regex replace in all files of the current project' option
20151221 19:55:37< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: but replacing "[\ \t]+\n" with "\n" somehow resulted in incistent line endings
20151221 19:56:22< Elvish_Hunter> That's interesting to know, although I don't use Visual Studio
20151221 19:56:29< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: sure fixing this this woudl be hard, but then i thought 'why just fixing trailing whitespaces instead of all indention'
20151221 19:57:08< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: but it turned out that it is not possibel to configure clang format ot ym favourite format
20151221 19:57:13< gfgtdf> my*
20151221 19:57:16< Elvish_Hunter> Instead, sed automatically iterates each file line by line, so usually one doesn't have to worry about newlines.
20151221 19:57:45< Elvish_Hunter> In fact, you can check my commit message to see the exact command that I used.
20151221 19:59:23< irker547> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master b4e5f16d7463 / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: improve formatting in lua code. http://git.io/vEY94
20151221 19:59:25< irker547> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 1eefcddc1774 / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: use wesnoth.advance_unit to advance units in [harm_unit] http://git.io/vEY9B
20151221 19:59:27< irker547> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 4c955e7461b7 / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: don't use __shallow_literal directly http://git.io/vEY9R
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20151221 20:02:17< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: 'woudl be hard' meant 'would't be hard'
20151221 20:21:40< Elvish_Hunter> gfgtdf: I guess that the regex didn't match correctly, because the default line ending in Windows is \r\n
20151221 20:22:41< Elvish_Hunter> According to this page: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2k3te2cs.aspx, you have to add "\r?$" to match at the end of each line.
20151221 20:22:45< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: it did find all trailing spaces, but it changed te line endings oif these lines.
20151221 20:25:05< Elvish_Hunter> I guess then that the correct replacement on Windows isn't \n, but \r\n.
20151221 20:25:58< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: it didnt reconise '\r' and treated it as 'r' when i tried that
20151221 20:26:34< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: what i did then is using \uxxxx values, not very pretty but it worked
20151221 20:30:21< Elvish_Hunter> Just to know, what version of Visual Studio are you using?
20151221 20:30:54< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: 2010 still but i can upgrade if we updat to c++11.
20151221 20:32:19< Elvish_Hunter> Ah... I see that \r is recognized only from VS 2012 onwards, this is why it didn't work.
20151221 20:40:18< gfgtdf> Elvish_Hunter: ah ok good to know.
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20151221 22:34:12< gfgtdf> vultraz: maybe we shoudl remove border_size form [store_map_dimension] ?
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20151221 23:03:07< vultraz> gfgtdf: probably, yes
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20151221 23:06:33< irker460> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 571014f374e6 / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: remove undocumented [wml_action] tag http://git.io/vEOym
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 22 00:00:04 2015