--- Log opened Mon Feb 15 00:00:16 2016
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20160215 00:14:51< celticminstrel> I dunno. Maybe "alternative speed"? Not sure I like that though.
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20160215 00:21:18< vultraz> celticminstrel: i think i'll leave the functionality as-is
20160215 00:21:19< vultraz> it makes sense
20160215 00:21:38< vultraz> no matter how you toggle it, it only takes effect when toggled on
20160215 00:21:51< vultraz> so it makes sense that it should be adjustable only when on
20160215 00:22:43< vultraz> celticminstrel: the prefs dialog will always reflect the current state of accelerated speed
20160215 00:22:45< vultraz> so if it's off
20160215 00:22:52< vultraz> then you toggle it with ctrl a
20160215 00:22:58< vultraz> it will then show On in the dialog
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20160215 03:02:43< celticminstrel> Once I get this to compile, I imagine the font scaling slider will be fully functional. Next step: make ttext actually use the setting.
20160215 03:03:14 * celticminstrel actually doesn't know where ttext is, but I expect grep will find it instantaneously.
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20160215 03:27:42 * celticminstrel wonders whether vultraz actually knew about register_bool, register_integer, and so forth.
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20160215 03:28:38< celticminstrel> Unless I'm mistaken, register_bool essentially does what setup_single_toggle does.
20160215 03:31:25 * celticminstrel wonders if a listbox can be disabled.
20160215 03:35:36< celticminstrel> Seems like there's two ttext classes, one which inherits from tshape and one which is in src/text.hpp? 
20160215 03:35:47< celticminstrel> The latter looks like it's probably what I need.
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20160215 04:04:35< celticminstrel> It works! Mostly.
20160215 04:04:52< celticminstrel> For some reason the slider is always at 100 when I open prefs, regardless of the current setting.
20160215 04:05:36< celticminstrel> Also, more than 200% looks bad and/or causes problems. I guess I'll limit to 200%.
20160215 04:06:36< celticminstrel> I also haven't applied it yet to SDL_TTF contexts yet, but I will.
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20160215 04:06:49< celticminstrel> Oh whoops, I said "yet" twice.
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20160215 04:19:36< ancestral> vultraz: Any new insights on how to attack the comma-separated font issue?
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20160215 05:18:06< vultraz> ancestral: no
20160215 05:18:21< vultraz> ancestral: tbh I wonder if it's not worth just dropping the list 
20160215 05:18:41< vultraz> ancestral: I know it's a hack but if the issue is in pango there isn't much we can do without replicating its internal functionality
20160215 05:18:55< ancestral> Do we have any translations that depend on multiple fonts?
20160215 05:19:02< vultraz> ancestral: we *could* parse the comma list and only take the first font, but that's the same thing
20160215 05:19:16< ancestral> vultraz: I’m with you. Loading one font is better than loading 0 fonts.
20160215 05:20:28< ancestral> I guess I’d be curious if, say an Asian font specifies to use certain characters in Deja Vu, but Deja Vu won’t load, so it goes to the system font, which maybe the characters don’t exist/looks like crap
20160215 05:20:41< ancestral> *Asian font translation file/cfg
20160215 05:20:58< shadowm> That's why the font lists exist.
20160215 05:21:15< ancestral> shadowm: Right, but right now, 0 fonts load, so it’s already broken
20160215 05:21:33< shadowm> On your platform.
20160215 05:21:38< ancestral> Mac and Windows?
20160215 05:21:44< ancestral> Two very large platforms
20160215 05:21:45< shadowm> Windows works fine.
20160215 05:22:04< ancestral> vultraz: Didn’t you say Deja Vu doesn’t load?
20160215 05:22:06< shadowm> The issue with line breaks is completely different even if the trigger is the same.
20160215 05:22:19< vultraz> ancestral: it loads but newlines don't render correctly and character width is off
20160215 05:22:39< shadowm> Character width isn't off in the rendered results.
20160215 05:23:11< vultraz> Right - but it gives extra width to dialogs
20160215 05:23:22< shadowm> That's an issue somewhere else.
20160215 05:23:24< ancestral> Could this cause problems with buttons?
20160215 05:23:32< shadowm> It doesn't in practice.
20160215 05:24:41< ancestral> I still feel like there might be a better way to handle the font list using the Cairo/Pango APIs
20160215 05:25:03< vultraz> shadowm: that's *not* an issue somewhere else. the pango approx width function returns a 3003 difference
20160215 05:25:27< shadowm> If there is a better way then please, by all means.
20160215 05:25:34< ancestral> Like, one API doesn’t play nicely with comma-separated lists, while some others do
20160215 05:26:04< ancestral> But I also gather there’s a lack of mastery around Pango
20160215 05:26:06< ancestral> around here
20160215 05:26:24< shadowm> Of course there is, the person who wrote this code has been gone for over a year.
20160215 05:27:42< shadowm> Two years?
20160215 05:27:45< shadowm> I forgot already.
20160215 05:28:04< shadowm> A year and a half.
20160215 05:28:15< vultraz> Again, this seems to be a pango problem, so it's best that we just list DVS only
20160215 05:28:15< shadowm> Approximately.
20160215 05:28:35< shadowm> Some translations do not want to use DejaVu Sans.
20160215 05:28:53< shadowm> We don't ship extra fonts just because we love wasting space, you know.
20160215 05:29:41< vultraz> there has to be another way, then
20160215 05:30:44< vultraz> why don't null characters use system fonts?
20160215 05:30:48< shadowm> The way is to keep doing your research since you already did about 25% of it.
20160215 05:31:32< vultraz> :|
20160215 05:31:42< shadowm> What's a null character now, because you clearly don't mean the null character `char(0)` a.k.a. `'\0'`.
20160215 05:31:52< vultraz> ok, I mean a character that can't load with a font
20160215 05:32:02< shadowm> They use system fonts.
20160215 05:32:09< shadowm> Thats the crux of the issue on OS X.
20160215 05:32:37< vultraz> Then what's the problem?
20160215 05:32:39< shadowm> No fonts we ship/request provide the glyphs because we couldn't load any, Pango falls back to a system font.
20160215 05:33:23< shadowm> The problem is that we want the fonts we want to be loaded so they can provide the requested glyphs.
20160215 05:34:41< vultraz> I tried adding a null check after looping over fonts but for some reason charcters_per_line usage ended up
20160215 05:34:43< vultraz> l
20160215 05:34:45< vultraz> i
20160215 05:34:46< vultraz> k
20160215 05:34:48< vultraz> e
20160215 05:34:49< vultraz> t
20160215 05:34:51< vultraz> h
20160215 05:34:52< vultraz> i
20160215 05:34:54< vultraz> s
20160215 05:34:56< shadowm> Don't do that.
20160215 05:36:41< vultraz> don't do the null check?
20160215 05:36:42< shadowm> Don't do what you just did on the channel.
20160215 05:36:42< vultraz> ..........alright
20160215 05:36:42< vultraz> I had to illustrate the point
20160215 05:36:44< shadowm> "but for some reason it causes text to be rendered one character per line".
20160215 05:37:22< shadowm> Anyway the bottomline is, the solution is not dropping font list functionality, the solution is fixing it.
20160215 05:37:42< ancestral> Well, 0 works on OS X right now
20160215 05:37:59< vultraz> we *can't* fix it
20160215 05:38:03< ancestral> So although it’s ugly, dropping the list is a workaround for OS X
20160215 05:38:07< ancestral> For now
20160215 05:38:08< vultraz> it's a pango bug!
20160215 05:38:16< shadowm> Patch Pango if needed.
20160215 05:38:17< ancestral> vultraz: No one has reported it, I take it
20160215 05:38:42< shadowm> It's not the first time Wesnoth has submitted bug reports and/or patches upstream and it will definitely not be the last
20160215 05:38:59< shadowm> Everyone wins, I don't see the problem with that.
20160215 05:39:19< vultraz> we'd have to wait for it to be accepted and the release to happen and we would have to immediately update to that version
20160215 05:39:22< shadowm> You were rambling about the greater good the other day after all.
20160215 05:39:34< shadowm> No, not really, because the OS X packagers can build a patched version if necessary.
20160215 05:39:42< vultraz> WINDOWS
20160215 05:39:43< shadowm> Same goes for Windows.
20160215 05:40:02< vultraz> the msvc people can but you said we can't use those
20160215 05:40:09< vultraz> and neither can I, as a CB user
20160215 05:40:37< shadowm> Then Windows loses and I'll inform our users that it was due to our packagers' laziness.
20160215 05:40:59< shadowm> We already have one such situation with the vorbis crash bug anyway.
20160215 05:41:25< vultraz> We can still do this
20160215 05:41:37< vultraz> But I propose we use this fix as a temporary stopgap
20160215 05:41:50< shadowm> Not important enough to warrant such a measure.
20160215 05:41:55< vultraz> :|
20160215 05:42:04< vultraz> Easy for you to say, you linux user
20160215 05:42:25< ancestral> shadowm: How many translations rely/need more than one font?
20160215 05:42:30< vultraz> you don't have to deal with the issue
20160215 05:42:33< shadowm> You are saying this to the developer who's worked the most towards fixing Windows-specific issues over the past few years, FYI.
20160215 05:42:51< shadowm> Remember the smudgy glitched ClearType rendering?
20160215 05:42:56< vultraz> No
20160215 05:43:00< vultraz> I never noticed it
20160215 05:43:01< shadowm> Guess who worked their ass off to fix it.
20160215 05:43:41< ancestral> (I’m not disagreeing with you, shadowm, but I am curious how many translations need more than one font.)
20160215 05:44:03< vultraz> Yes I know you did. But windows is still not your primary platform
20160215 05:44:04< shadowm> Probably all non-Latin alphabet translations.
20160215 05:44:16< vultraz> So you don't regularly deal with this issue
20160215 05:44:23< vultraz> while windows and os x people do
20160215 05:44:23< ancestral> They need more than the font they’re using?
20160215 05:44:58< vultraz> (which makes up our main audience, I would think)
20160215 05:44:59< ancestral> I mean, here’s the thing. Let’s take Japanese, since I have studied it
20160215 05:45:12< vultraz> It's especially bad for UMC devs
20160215 05:45:42< ancestral> There’s an Asian font were are using, and maybe it’s lacking some… rare Unicode characters?
20160215 05:45:43< shadowm> vultraz: You sorely underestimate how much I care about the newlines bug.
20160215 05:46:10< ancestral> Like the circumflex over the y
20160215 05:46:38< ancestral> If there’s a font list, it will move to the next font in the list
20160215 05:47:11< ancestral> Or if someone overrides what characters to choose in the font cfg
20160215 05:47:25< ancestral> But that font probably won’t have the same metrics in Deja Vu compared to the Asian font
20160215 05:47:51< ancestral> Japanese characters are generally fixed-width
20160215 05:48:11< ancestral> I’m just unsure why we even need this support to begin with
20160215 05:48:27< shadowm> We use Git.
20160215 05:49:03< ancestral> I guess the only thing I can think of is to provide a unified look when it comes to displaying latin text while in other foreign alphabets
20160215 05:49:18< ancestral> But the fonts will clash when used together
20160215 05:49:34< shadowm> Now that you are willing to question your own proposal you can probably find out why things are the way they are.
20160215 05:49:37< ancestral> “clash” is a rough description
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20160215 05:50:53< ancestral> shadowm: How many translations don’t use Deja Vu Sans first?
20160215 05:51:26< ancestral> Alright, I’ll go find out
20160215 05:51:29< shadowm> One apparently.
20160215 05:51:37< ancestral> One?
20160215 05:51:42< shadowm> The Chinese translations change the other of two other fonts, however.
20160215 05:53:46< shadowm> Korean does as well.
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20160215 05:58:42< ancestral> Okay
20160215 05:59:32< ancestral> Deja Vu Sans supports the following scripts: Arabic, Armenian, Cyrillic, Georgian, Greek, Hebrew, Lao, Latin, Thai, Unified Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics
20160215 05:59:50< ancestral> (I don’t know if those are full support, but at least some)
20160215 06:01:02< ancestral> How is Andagii used?
20160215 06:02:11< ancestral> Osmanya script
20160215 06:02:42< ancestral> Somali, okay
20160215 06:03:38< ancestral> So is its Arabic better than DejaVu?
20160215 06:06:16< ancestral> Hmm, possibly
20160215 06:08:43< ancestral> vultraz, shadowm: So here’s what strikes me as interesting. Most projects will wait before supporting a language until there’s more or less a full translation available.
20160215 06:08:53< ancestral> Obviously mainline campaigns make it tough (and add-ons will make this impossible) but there are probably two dozen languages that have very, very little support where you would have no idea what language you’re in.
20160215 06:09:31< ancestral> It almost seems a disservice to provide support for a translation that doesn’t even have translated strings for all the main menu buttons
20160215 06:16:26< ancestral> (I’m not talking about languages that are mostly there, where maybe even most of the campaigns are missing translations while the menus and settings are good. I’m talking about Arabic or Bulgarian [which both have only three buttons on the main menu translated, and some of the menu options].)
20160215 06:20:54< ancestral> Of the languages that have 50% or more translated strings in 1.12, Chinese, Chinese Taiwan and Japanese are the only ones which rely on non-supported Deja Vu scripts
20160215 06:21:02< ancestral> Korean comes in at 47%
20160215 06:30:37< ancestral> Okay
20160215 06:31:46< ancestral> Chinese uses the Droid fallback CJK, which is localized for China (“This particular font was specified to default to simplified Chinese ideographs.”)
20160215 06:32:00< ancestral> Japanese has a Droid Sans Japanese
20160215 06:32:54< ancestral> vultraz, shadowm: Honestly, this is what it boils down to.
20160215 06:32:56< ancestral> Two concerns
20160215 06:33:21< ancestral> Take Chinese
20160215 06:34:38< ancestral> 1. If there is no translation for a campaign (or whatever), it will write things in [presumably] English, with the Chinese Droid font, meaning it will look noticeably different compared to the same campaign played with the language English
20160215 06:34:52< ancestral> From a unified look standpoint, that loses points
20160215 06:37:52< ancestral> 2. If there are characters in Deja Vu Sans that are “lacking” (like maybe Arabic), another font may be preferred. But then again, the translator would choose to load the other font in preference of Deja Vu, and then it falls back to point #1
20160215 06:38:14< ancestral> (This is assuming there is no multiple font fallback going on)
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20160215 06:45:00< shadowm> In other words, you are doubting our translators' judgment on the matter?
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20160215 06:50:52< vultraz> ancestral: so what, in your opinion, is the best coruse 
20160215 06:50:58< vultraz> course 
20160215 06:52:19< ancestral> shadowm, vultraz: I’m saying, having a second font isn’t important, except if you want to preserve the look of all Latin in Deja Vu Sans
20160215 06:52:28< ancestral> All the Asian fonts have latin alphabets
20160215 06:53:33< shadowm> Okay, that's a Latin-centric argument. What about the translations?
20160215 06:54:45< ancestral> What?
20160215 06:55:10< shadowm> What about the translations?
20160215 06:56:30< shadowm> I didn't understand why having a second font appears to not be important.
20160215 06:56:54< shadowm> (I also really have to go right now.)
20160215 06:56:54< ancestral> Let me rephrase
20160215 06:57:01< ancestral> no
20160215 06:57:06< ancestral> s/second/secondary
20160215 06:57:19< shadowm> Same difference.
20160215 06:58:08< shadowm> (Or did you mean I don't actually have to go?)
20160215 06:58:32< ancestral> Uh, you do whatever you want! :)
20160215 06:58:51< ancestral> I meant “no” to my “let me rephrase” statement
20160215 06:58:54< shadowm> Okay, sure, first course of action is adding all my campaigns to mainline.
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20160215 07:00:06< ancestral> When you want to talk about this again, let me know. I perhaps didn’t do the best job articulating.
20160215 07:00:14< ancestral> (It is late here.)
20160215 07:00:27< shadowm> Anyway, the bottomline really is that as a Latin-script user I probably don't understand the intended behavior in its entirety either.
20160215 07:00:31< ancestral> And it’s not a knock on the translations at all.
20160215 07:00:57< ancestral> I do have experience with Japanese. I do understand the integration between Latin and non-Latin alphabets.
20160215 07:01:03< ancestral> Again, another time
20160215 07:01:04< shadowm> I'd even wager that no-one actually knows the intended behavior and people just cargo culted broken functionality.
20160215 07:01:21< shadowm> Okay.
20160215 07:02:00< ancestral> (I did study in Japan. I spoke, I wrote. I’m not an expert, but I’m not a novice whose only exposure was watching anime, either.)
20160215 07:02:16< vultraz> ancestral: so would you say the fix is valid?
20160215 07:02:45< shadowm> (I'd like someone other than vultraz to take responsibility for committing the fix and dealing with any subsequent response btw.)
20160215 07:02:57< ancestral> vultraz: I would go through the .po files and any of the .cfgs and see where any of the translators or devs have specified character overrides for fonts
20160215 07:02:58< shadowm> (He has enough on his plate already.)
20160215 07:03:04< ancestral> If there are, there’s a reason
20160215 07:03:40< ancestral> Like, hey, Wesnoth uses some weird Unicode character for a check box (probably not, but still), and therefore, it should use Deja Vu Sans
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20160215 07:04:37< shadowm> Also, worth noting is that the SDL_ttf pipeline AFAICT actually has a codepoint-wise font selection mechanism, whereas ttext doesn't.
20160215 07:04:57< ancestral> That is true
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20160215 07:05:02< shadowm> No real idea why that was never ported to ttext.
20160215 07:05:21< ancestral> I assumed it was specific to SDL rendering
20160215 07:05:22< shadowm> (ttext also lacks a render cache, that the SDL_ttf wrappers have.)
20160215 07:05:28< ancestral> er GUI 1
20160215 07:06:12< vultraz> I'm not sure having to specify all those codepoints is good practice
20160215 07:06:33< shadowm> It places quite the burden on the maintainers.
20160215 07:06:41< vultraz> This is true
20160215 07:07:15< ancestral> shadowm: But, I do agree with you. If we want to be good devizens (might have just made that term up), we/someone should report the Pango bug to the right place
20160215 07:07:29< shadowm> In general, when a list of magic numbers like that can't be generated by a machine you are probably doing something wrong.
20160215 07:11:39< vultraz> that's what I mean, yes
20160215 07:15:03< vultraz> btw, as an unrelated experiment I'm tweaking font rendering options to see if I can produce slightly nicer rendering
20160215 07:17:45< ancestral> vultraz: I was curious about that too.
20160215 07:17:48< ancestral> fonts.conf?
20160215 07:18:05< ancestral> or actually, there was something in the code
20160215 07:18:16< vultraz> no, in ttext
20160215 07:18:30< vultraz> the constructor
20160215 07:21:41< vultraz> I've always though the DVS glyphs were a bit... thin. but seems there isn't much that can be done about that in the code
20160215 07:22:25< ancestral> text.cpp, line 136?
20160215 07:22:41< ancestral> Hmm, maybe that’s not it
20160215 07:22:51< vultraz> Well, besides cairo_font_options_set_antialias, but need newer cairo version 
20160215 07:37:27< shadowm> 04:21:41 <vultraz> I've always though the DVS glyphs were a bit... thin. but seems there isn't much that can be done about that in the code
20160215 07:37:31< shadowm> Let me repeat myself again.
20160215 07:38:06< shadowm> On Windows (and on Windows only), the Cairo surface decoding logic is bugged OR Cairo provides us bugged surfaces.
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20160215 07:39:02< shadowm> Because the surface decoding logic we use on OS X and X11 produces horrible results on Windows, we brute-force the process and get subpar (but readable) results compared to OS X/X11.
20160215 07:39:48< shadowm> The key portions of code that are involved in this bug are the #ifdef/#ifndef _WIN32 blocks in src/text.cpp.
20160215 07:40:11< shadowm> Now, with ClearType enabled, shapes aren't thin, but they look almost literally like ass.
20160215 07:40:16< shadowm> Therefore I disabled ClearType.
20160215 07:41:17< shadowm> So there are two different bugs playing a role here: 1) crappy ClearType rendering; and 2) bugged surface alpha decoding.
20160215 07:42:04< shadowm> See also: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?21648
20160215 07:42:50< shadowm> And FYI that bug was basically my original motivation to get a development environment set up on a Windows virtual machine.
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20160215 07:43:02< shadowm> Mr. "shadowm doesn't care about Windows".
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20160215 08:10:49< zookeeper> now i got this funny thing again where firefox won't open today's irc log normally, but instead insists on popping up the "what should firefox do with this file?" prompt. i checked the headers, and the only difference between the headers for this file and yesterday's log is:
20160215 08:10:50< zookeeper> Connection: Keep-Alive
20160215 08:10:50< zookeeper> Keep-Alive: timeout=5, max=100
20160215 08:11:40< shadowm> Someone (probably me) sent characters that cause Firefox to register it as something other than a text file regardless of the MIME type specified by the server.
20160215 08:12:02< shadowm> At least that was the verified cause last time this happened for a punctual log file.
20160215 08:12:38< zookeeper> ahh, i see. i guess i missed that the last time then.
20160215 08:13:53< shadowm> Or maybe it's celmin's message at 20160215 04:06:49.
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20160215 08:14:53< shadowm> Yep, celmin's message contains an invalid UTF-8 sequence (0x1D).
20160215 08:15:32< zookeeper> fun stuff
20160215 08:15:50< shadowm> Okay, well, that's _valid_ UTF-8, but it's a control character.
20160215 08:16:27< shadowm> U+001D GROUP SEPARATOR
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20160215 09:13:57< zookeeper> shadowm, eh, shouldn't ~MASK multiply the alpha instead of this? https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/sdl/utils.cpp#L1363
20160215 09:14:08< zookeeper> because currently you get weird results when masking a semi-transparent image
20160215 09:14:45< zookeeper> the wiki kind of supports the current method though
20160215 09:15:08< zookeeper> "each alpha value will be the maximum alpha of the resulting image"
20160215 09:19:44< zookeeper> not that i can't workaround it, but i just found it odd that it doesn't just multiply by the mask's alpha.
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20160215 09:41:35< zookeeper> yesss, i did it. gray/tropical water by use of static overlays.
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20160215 10:46:57< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
20160215 10:47:45-!- irker789 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160215 10:47:45< irker789> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master b9380e88c1b2 / data/tools/wesnoth/wmltools3.py: wmltools3: fixed a bug reported by Robertdebrus in PR #596 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b9380e88c1b21d3f08e7619ba9904830c53ba11c
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20160215 15:02:34< gfgtdf> shadowm, vultraz: there are alredy related upsteam bug on pango https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=455940 and https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=162681 and they are from 2005 and 2007
20160215 15:02:58< gfgtdf> shadowm, vultraz: su i dont really think they will fix it anytime soon
20160215 15:03:39< gfgtdf> shadowm, vultraz: also wonder whether we will stil use pango if we every move to hw accelerated drawing and opengl.
20160215 15:04:20< gfgtdf> shadowm, vultraz: no wait it think the second bug number is wrong
20160215 15:05:04< gfgtdf> shadowm, vultraz: there was also a bug about comma seperated list of fonts in windoes, but i cannot find the number now
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20160215 15:26:34< vultraz> gfgtdf: wow o_O
20160215 15:31:48< vultraz> gfgtdf: ogl doesn't directly provide font rendering tools, since that's out of its scope
20160215 15:47:13< gfgtdf> vultraz: did you fix http://gna.org/bugs/?24381 ?
20160215 15:48:09-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160215 15:48:30< vultraz> no...didn't you?
20160215 15:48:36< vultraz> it seems to work now anyway
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20160215 15:52:42< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmjm i thought i didnt pusb the fix for that yet, let me chack again
20160215 15:53:58-!- Elvish_Hunter [~elvish_hu@wesnoth/developer/elvish-hunter] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Ciao!"]
20160215 15:58:20< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm yes seems like i already commited that my bad then.
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20160215 16:16:25< vultraz> gfgtdf: did you see the message earlier about no_leader being bugged
20160215 16:17:32< gfgtdf> vultraz: which one exactly ?
20160215 16:17:50< vultraz> gfgtdf: if you have no_leader = yes the game fails with "unknown unit type: random"
20160215 16:18:04< vultraz> game initialization 
20160215 16:18:16< gfgtdf> vultraz: hm yes iirc i already answered do that.
20160215 16:18:28< gfgtdf> vultraz: not sure though
20160215 16:19:18< gfgtdf> 20160214 21:46:56< gfgtdf> zookeeper: y  know this is mostlikeley a bug in connect engine unable to ahdnel leaders in [unit]
20160215 16:21:48< gfgtdf> vultraz: the change in behaviour of no_leader was requested sonewhere but i cannot remeber whre currently.
20160215 16:37:13< celticminstrel> Supposedly there's a [leader] tag, but it doesn't work because the game always tries to use the side tag as a config for the leader.
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20160215 16:43:49< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i think i already have  fix for that her elocally
20160215 16:43:52< gfgtdf> locally
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20160215 16:44:38< celticminstrel> It's easy to fix.
20160215 16:45:07< celticminstrel> Just check for a [leader] tag first. (Or if you want to really go the extra mile, also test for a [unit]canrecruit=yes)
20160215 16:46:24< celticminstrel> Huh. I didn't think the in-game theme used ttext.
20160215 16:47:37< celticminstrel> The turn count and defense is cut off with a larger font size.
20160215 16:47:54< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: that scenario doesn use a [leader] tag, o i dnt see how ths related
20160215 16:47:58< celticminstrel> (On the right; turn count at the top isn't cut off, though it overflows its area.)
20160215 16:48:33< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Sorry, maybe we're talking about different things.
20160215 16:49:32< celticminstrel> At 200% font size, most of the text is a little clipped at the bottom.
20160215 16:50:00< celticminstrel> I guess the theme only gives a fixed amount of space to each component?
20160215 16:50:18< celticminstrel> Still, even though it's clipped, it's mostly readable.
20160215 16:51:43 * celticminstrel tries to change the theme, nothing happens. Am I missing something?
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20160215 16:52:52< celticminstrel> Why can't I change themes while a game is in progress?
20160215 16:53:45< celticminstrel> I guess the UnitBox theme is incomplete.
20160215 16:54:38-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160215 16:54:44< fendrin> And the artwork is only stubish.
20160215 16:55:09< fendrin> Still what LordBob produced as stubs is nice.
20160215 16:55:12< celticminstrel> I think the themes have redraw issues.
20160215 16:55:38< celticminstrel> When I changed font size, the large text wasn't erased.
20160215 16:56:28< fendrin> Well, I believe that is nothing fixable in the theme. 
20160215 16:56:54< celticminstrel> This is why I said "the themes" rather than "the X theme".
20160215 16:57:57< fendrin> celticminstrel: You are firm with lua?
20160215 16:58:40< celticminstrel> With UnitBox I think some of that "stubbish" artwork isn't being used - there was nothing whatsoever shown in the unit area. No time-of-day background, no terrain background, no unit image.
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20160215 17:00:17 * celticminstrel is assuming the images in data/core/images/unit_env are intended for UnitBox.
20160215 17:00:34< fendrin> AI0867 fixed the UnitBox theme at the last FOSDEM
20160215 17:01:33< celticminstrel> I'm okay with Lua, why?
20160215 17:01:40< fendrin> Strange that it is broken again. Maybe he commited to another branch.
20160215 17:01:40< fendrin> It was an issue of moved artwork iirc.
20160215 17:02:03< fendrin> I am googling for how I can spread a module over several files for some hours now.
20160215 17:02:16< fendrin> No result that satisfies me.
20160215 17:02:26-!- boucman_work [~jrosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160215 17:02:31< celticminstrel> I probably can't help with that...
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20160215 17:03:09< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 4e46c7cc287b / src/game_initialization/connect_engine.cpp: fix issues with [unit] in [side] in mp connect. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4e46c7cc287b72a02b1942c25ff6a7c7cc287b9a
20160215 17:03:09< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master c425e62a20b9 / src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): add support to search in border in wesnoth.find_path https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c425e62a20b9134932fcad351aedb78f0b7e77e5
20160215 17:03:09< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master b753e54b0341 / src/scripting/mapgen_lua_kernel.cpp: fixup comment https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b753e54b0341cb6329eaf5948fe6490f14ed848f
20160215 17:03:10< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 6e0f8ed6d753 / src/actions/undo.cpp: fix assertion failure when loading mp saves https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6e0f8ed6d753a88db49ddd147d2d16ebb5188b88
20160215 17:03:11< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master ba154d07b957 / src/mouse_events.cpp: fix assertion failure and OOS when attacking with DSU active https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ba154d07b957f0dee38dc07a4c38c6b2910a916c
20160215 17:03:13< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 3f681c14128d / src/variable_info.cpp: dont allow empty indexes in wml variables https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3f681c14128dd52eadecd0f5889eda904d92bbbc
20160215 17:03:15< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 50725cabe311 / src/ (scripting/game_lua_kernel.cpp unit.hpp): add a setter for a units level in lua proxy units https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/50725cabe311fd194953208cdd6090c3853a003e
20160215 17:03:17< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 09e88c89d1d1 / data/test/multiplayer/_main.cfg: remove a useless prprocessor guard https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/09e88c89d1d1921a6ba73ade0dcd323d38c4fbcd
20160215 17:03:19< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master ff9a9e017a54 / src/gui/widgets/listbox.cpp: fix listboxes having problems to find sort toggle buttons in different columns. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ff9a9e017a54d0b413eb6c59ef1ab630effdcfb6
20160215 17:03:21< irker576> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 644f5e7386e9 / src/variable_info.cpp: attempt to fix [set_variables] https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/644f5e7386e92f9b090cdd990efd3cefb7180283
20160215 17:03:37< celticminstrel> Hmm... font.cpp looks like a thing I need to change...
20160215 17:04:25< fendrin> I guess using a init.lua or init.moon file is the way to do it.
20160215 17:04:25< fendrin> And it would be no problem if every file would define a subtable of the module.
20160215 17:04:28< celticminstrel> Why is it that every time I bring Firefox into view it's reminding me to update again.
20160215 17:04:52 * celticminstrel wonders what was wrong with [set_variables].
20160215 17:06:43< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: https://gna.org/bugs/?24412
20160215 17:07:30< celticminstrel> Oh, one of the ones vultraz assigned to me.
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20160215 17:14:19< celticminstrel> Loading screen is now in larger print.
20160215 17:15:57< celticminstrel> As are menus, End Turn, and HP/XP/MP labels.
20160215 17:16:17< celticminstrel> The menu buttons at the top left look terrible though - they're overflowing their space.
20160215 17:17:48< celticminstrel> Hmm, the larger size is cached though, so if you change scaling you need to restart to update it properly.
20160215 17:20:27< vultraz> celticminstrel: would you think it worth increasing our default font size by a bit?
20160215 17:21:11< celticminstrel> Well, it's currently tiny along the top, but that might be because of the Mac font issues.
20160215 17:21:19< celticminstrel> I don't really have a problem with the current font size.
20160215 17:22:08< celticminstrel> (Other than that.)
20160215 17:23:45< vultraz> ancestral: so it seems there is an upstream issue about the newline issue in the pango tracker... since 2007
20160215 17:23:54< ancestral> I saw that
20160215 17:24:01< vultraz> ah
20160215 17:24:03< vultraz> ok
20160215 17:24:19< vultraz> well given that, I think it's not worth waiting for a fix that's likely not coming :P
20160215 17:24:31< ancestral> vultraz, celticminstrel: With or without this bug, we need a new theme that has bigger text
20160215 17:24:45< ancestral> Screens are only getting more dense with pixels, and larger in size, meaning people are sitting further away from them
20160215 17:25:11< vultraz> ancestral: I'm experimenting with bumping dpi and decreasing font size
20160215 17:25:18< vultraz> for the default 
20160215 17:25:29< celticminstrel> With or without which bug?
20160215 17:25:32< ancestral> vultraz: I tried bumping it to 84 (halfway from 72 to 96) which was okay
20160215 17:25:37< celticminstrel> The Mac font bug?
20160215 17:25:52< ancestral> The Pango bug, which is affecting fonts on the Mac and line breaks on Windows
20160215 17:25:58< ancestral> (Or possibly two bugs)
20160215 17:27:39< Ravana_> I thought for long time that is was design choice, and people were expected to use newline+space+newline
20160215 17:28:23< vultraz> nope
20160215 17:28:26< vultraz> :P
20160215 17:28:44< ancestral> I still think it’s overreaching and under-delivering for Wesnoth to include the option to choose language translations where less than half the text is covered
20160215 17:29:05< vultraz> I agree with you
20160215 17:29:06< ancestral> Having a partial translation just feels bad. Do it right, or don’t do it at all
20160215 17:29:23< vultraz> This is especially true when we go on steam
20160215 17:29:27< ancestral> (“Partial,” obviously, open ot interpretation)
20160215 17:29:32< ancestral> vultraz: Yes
20160215 17:29:49< vultraz> we *cannot* advertise internationalization options we don't have sufficient support for
20160215 17:29:55< ancestral> If we cut out everything less than 50%, we’re left with 3 langauges with no scripts that Deja Vu supports
20160215 17:30:00< ancestral> Two Chinese, one Japanese
20160215 17:30:05< celticminstrel> Have a metric for determining the completeness of a translation, and only ship the ones that pass. Don't excise them from the repo, and include them in dev/beta builds, but keep them out of stable builds.
20160215 17:30:10< ancestral> (Korean at 47%)
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20160215 17:30:30< vultraz> celticminstrel: that's a good idea
20160215 17:30:38< ancestral> Yes
20160215 17:30:50< celticminstrel> So, 1.12.x would have only decently-supported languages; 1.13.x would have all languages with any support.
20160215 17:30:54< ancestral> https://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/?version=master&package=alloff
20160215 17:31:19< ancestral> And if anything
20160215 17:31:26< ancestral> If Steam gets us traction
20160215 17:31:35< ancestral> We can make a call out for translations
20160215 17:31:41< celticminstrel> I still never got around to reporting that error in the French translation...
20160215 17:31:42< vultraz> True
20160215 17:32:08< vultraz> ancestral: so we should ship the first 26 in stable?
20160215 17:32:12< ancestral> Someone will need to make a determination of “what is a complete translation”
20160215 17:32:37< ancestral> 50% is iconic, if maybe arbitrary
20160215 17:33:04< celticminstrel> To be complete, I would think all GUI text needs to be covered. (Though could the editor be exempted? Not sure.)
20160215 17:33:04< ancestral> I could double-check, but I think the top 26 do have most-eveything in the menus translated
20160215 17:33:10< ancestral> celticminstrel: Agreed
20160215 17:33:24< celticminstrel> Does help need to be covered?
20160215 17:34:00< celticminstrel> I do think all non-descriptive text for core units definitely needs to be covered.
20160215 17:34:45< ancestral> Well, once there’s a finish line in sight, perhaps any active translators will be motivated to continue work
20160215 17:35:03< ancestral> *finish line to Steam
20160215 17:35:35< ancestral> French and Spanish at nearly 100% might be worth it
20160215 17:35:42< vultraz> Yes
20160215 17:35:58< ancestral> (Just thinking of the large populations affected)
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20160215 17:36:40< ancestral> What’s a fuzzy translation?
20160215 17:36:47< ancestral> (Excuse my ignorance)
20160215 17:37:38< vultraz> I think ones that differ slightly from the text in english
20160215 17:37:47< vultraz> since the english ones were changed
20160215 17:38:05< celticminstrel> No, I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean an out-of-date translation.
20160215 17:38:06< ancestral> Oh, I see
20160215 17:38:13< ancestral> Oh?
20160215 17:38:16< celticminstrel> An out-of-date translation will be orphaned and not used.
20160215 17:38:24< celticminstrel> Since the English text is the key for lookup.
20160215 17:38:59< celticminstrel> I think it means where the translation is not entirely accurate, or misses something, or something.
20160215 17:39:47< celticminstrel> Though, I suppose someone updating translations might use that flag when the original English was changed just a little - just throw in the same translation as before but mark it fuzzy.
20160215 17:42:10< ancestral> Looks like the editor has pretty good translation support
20160215 17:42:14< ancestral> https://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/?package=wesnoth-editor&order=trans&version=master
20160215 17:42:58< ancestral> Help section is a bit worse
20160215 17:43:17< ancestral> Only 2 above 80% (English, Galician)
20160215 17:47:16< vultraz> ancestral: on the pango thing for a second longer, do you intend to commit the 'fix' we have?
20160215 17:48:21< celticminstrel> Units coverage also looks pretty good. Korean is at 78% there.
20160215 17:48:52< celticminstrel> Eight languages have nothing whatsoever.
20160215 17:49:16< celticminstrel> Afrikaans has 46%.
20160215 17:49:37< celticminstrel> Oh, but that's excluding fuzzy.
20160215 17:49:59< vultraz> ancestral: also, potentially useful... pango_layout_get_unknown_glyphs_count
20160215 17:50:17< celticminstrel> We should probably include fuzzy, so by that measure, Slovenian is the first to miss 50%.
20160215 17:50:26< celticminstrel> Wait, no, it's the last not to.
20160215 17:51:04< celticminstrel> We should definitely drop Old English.
20160215 17:52:11< celticminstrel> Not sure what wesnoth-lib is for.
20160215 17:52:29< celticminstrel> Or wesnoth-ai.
20160215 17:52:41< vultraz> also should drop Friulian
20160215 17:52:43< vultraz> whatever that is
20160215 17:52:54< celticminstrel> I think the most important textdomains are probably wesnoth, wesnoth-units, and wesnoth-multiplayer.
20160215 17:53:15< celticminstrel> The next priority would be wesnoth-editor and wesnoth-help.
20160215 17:53:18< vultraz> seems to be a language with half a million s eakers in northern Italy
20160215 17:53:21< vultraz> speakers*
20160215 17:53:53< celticminstrel> Wesnoth-lib probably fits in one of those two lists as well, but I'm not sure which. Wesnoth-ai might also qualify for second priority.
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20160215 17:54:23< celticminstrel> I think wesnoth-manual and wesnoth-manpages could be third priority.
20160215 17:54:42< celticminstrel> Maybe wesnoth-tutorial should be second or third priority. Or even first?
20160215 17:55:22< celticminstrel> Then there's just campaigns (difficult to prioritize) and wesnoth-test (last priority).
20160215 17:57:19< celticminstrel> I think any language with nothing translated in even one of the first-priority textdomains should be dropped.
20160215 18:00:28< celticminstrel> Maybe also any language with more than 50% untranslated in what that stats page calls "allcore".
20160215 18:00:49< celticminstrel> (As opposed to less than 50% translated - I think fuzzy translations should be counted.)
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20160215 20:54:40< Elvish_Hunter> 20160215 17:52:41< vultraz> also should drop Friulian
20160215 20:54:56< Elvish_Hunter> 20160215 17:52:43< vultraz> whatever that is
20160215 20:55:44< Elvish_Hunter> vultraz: as you found out, it is indeed a language spoken in North-East of Italy.
20160215 20:56:18-!- fendrin [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20160215 20:56:36< Elvish_Hunter> This is its 'working' topic: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21419
20160215 20:58:47< Elvish_Hunter> As you can see, it was abandoned from the very beginning.
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20160215 21:03:37< Elvish_Hunter> Oh look, the only translated line was the one at data/hardwired/fonts.cfg:7. That is, the font list.
20160215 21:07:33< celticminstrel> ...heh.
20160215 21:08:01< Elvish_Hunter> OK, there are no relevant infos about it even in the Wesnoth Italian Forum.
20160215 21:08:34< Elvish_Hunter> At this point, I can confirm that it can be dropped.
20160215 21:08:48< celticminstrel> Making the font scaling work for non-GUI2 text proved to be harder than expected, thanks to the font cache. I think I've probably got it working now, though.
20160215 21:08:55 * celticminstrel is testing right now.
20160215 21:09:20< celticminstrel> ^font cache and text cache - two separate caches.
20160215 21:09:36< Elvish_Hunter> vultraz: speaking of fonts... https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/598
20160215 21:10:22< celticminstrel> Is it possible to write some automated metric into the build process for whether or not to include a given translation?
20160215 21:13:18< celticminstrel> Heh, there's a variable called "scry"... intended to be short for "screen Y".
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20160215 21:37:52< shadowm> Elvish_Hunter, vultraz: I'd like to remind you that we have a specific person in charge of managing translations and if you want to drop a translation you should talk to him first.
20160215 21:38:02< shadowm> celticminstrel: Same.
20160215 21:39:58-!- irker657 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160215 21:39:58< irker657> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master df9cecd558f8 / / (6 files in 4 dirs): Changed gray and tropical water to work by overlays, not color-shift https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/df9cecd558f834f390553a6a11c42ed4dd89374c
20160215 21:40:21< zookeeper> ^ anyone who's looked at the water memory use, try again with that
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20160215 21:41:48< shadowm> vultraz: Our default font size is large enough for most people, I don't think it needs increasing at all.
20160215 21:42:42< shadowm> What needs to be removed is the special case we make in the default theme for vertical resolutions < 768 which causes sidebar text to use a smaller size.
20160215 21:43:23< shadowm> And yes people actually come across this all the time.
20160215 21:43:47< shadowm> They frequently report it as a bug for some reason.
20160215 21:44:45< shadowm> I'm not liking the talk about disabling incomplete translations.
20160215 21:45:27< shadowm> As it is right now, there is a lot of non-essential text lumped together with subjectively "essential" text in the same textdomains.
20160215 21:46:18< shadowm> Furthermore there's an assumption going on here that non-English speakers either know English and don't need translations or don't know English at all and need full translations.
20160215 21:47:43< celticminstrel> What about abandoned ones?
20160215 21:48:45< shadowm> I'm not Ivanovic, therefore it's not my area of competence and not my decision to make, but I'd consider it appropriate to drop translations that haven't seen any activity for two stable series.
20160215 21:49:28< shadowm> Given how much you people fiddle with text, and the ridiculous amount of time this represents, I'm fairly sure that automatically covers all abandoned translations.
20160215 22:21:16< vultraz> Elvish_Hunter: travis passed on that, merge?
20160215 22:21:43< celticminstrel> Hm? What is that PR?
20160215 22:21:54< vultraz> celticminstrel: updating DVS
20160215 22:21:59< celticminstrel> ?
20160215 22:22:11< vultraz> shadowm: yes, I came to that conclusion too, actually
20160215 22:22:15< vultraz> celticminstrel: Deja Vu Sans
20160215 22:22:20< celticminstrel> Oh.
20160215 22:22:37< shadowm> There's really no way travis would've failed that PR.
20160215 22:22:42< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20160215 22:23:19< vultraz> Elvish_Hunter: i notice you didn't include Mono, though
20160215 22:23:37< celticminstrel> Is that used anywhere?
20160215 22:23:41< vultraz> yes
20160215 22:23:47< shadowm> !commit e552b5715bc4bea14d444dc5228803960ec903e8 @ vultraz
20160215 22:23:49< shikadibot> vultraz: Revision e552b5715bc4 (Ignacio R. Morelle) on Sat May 30 23:12:01 2015:
20160215 22:23:52< shikadibot> vultraz: Add DejaVu Sans Mono font, version 2.35
20160215 22:23:54< shikadibot> vultraz:  
20160215 22:23:56< vultraz> oh, ok
20160215 22:23:57< shikadibot> vultraz: Same license terms as the other DejaVu Sans fonts. We won't need
20160215 22:23:58< shadowm> It was the latest version when I first added it.
20160215 22:23:59< shikadibot> vultraz: (+1 discarded lines)
20160215 22:24:02< shikadibot> vultraz: Web interface URL: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e552b5715bc4
20160215 22:24:10< vultraz> Elvish_Hunter: nvm
20160215 22:24:21< celticminstrel> Where is Sans Mono used?
20160215 22:24:30< shadowm> You probably don't remember that I tried to coax you at the time to do the same thing EH just did.
20160215 22:24:34< celticminstrel> Inspector?
20160215 22:24:38< vultraz> yes
20160215 22:25:07< celticminstrel> This font scaling thing seems a bit fragile on the SDL_TTF side.
20160215 22:25:43< shadowm> The Lua console also uses DejaVu Sans Mono when Pango isn't being stupid (i.e. not on OS X).
20160215 22:26:02< shadowm> Same goes for the WML load error report dialog.
20160215 22:26:14< celticminstrel> I think I have everything covered though, provided no-one else uses the font:: stuff anywhere new.
20160215 22:26:28< celticminstrel> The Lua console was still impossible to use for me at last check.
20160215 22:26:42< shadowm> Impossible how?
20160215 22:27:07< celticminstrel> It takes at least thirty seconds for a character to appear after typing. Sometimes characters are dropped.
20160215 22:27:34< shadowm> Huh, I don't get that here.
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20160215 22:31:08< irker657> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 4f2c15a0658b / / (4 files in 2 dirs): Updated DejaVu fonts to version 2.35 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4f2c15a0658b447a749d338eb1991ddeb1596981
20160215 22:31:10< irker657> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 3c944c3bb257 / / (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge pull request #598 from Elvish-Hunter/dejavu-2.35 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3c944c3bb25744b73fe51554de04865698b94a66
20160215 22:31:20< shadowm> Hm! I can't bring up the command box in Windows build running on Wine.
20160215 22:31:26< shadowm> *with a
20160215 22:31:38< shadowm> The hotkeys dialog says it's ; but that doesn't do anything.
20160215 22:31:53< celticminstrel> I thought it was supposed to be shift-;
20160215 22:31:57< vultraz> are you sure you're not pressing :
20160215 22:32:11< vultraz> celticminstrel: that's colon. it's now semicolon.
20160215 22:32:13< shadowm> I'm pressing whatever it takes to get ;. (Do you people remember Aginor changed how this works?)
20160215 22:32:37< celticminstrel> It might be that the key-names assumes US layout...
20160215 22:32:41< shadowm> With a native Linux build the dialog displays ñ instead, which I can actually type.
20160215 22:32:53 * celticminstrel really has no idea.
20160215 22:33:06< shadowm> I'll go check if it works on Windows.
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20160215 22:35:19< celticminstrel> Okay, next step: orbs.
20160215 22:35:39< celticminstrel> But I think I'll leave that for tomorrow.
20160215 22:36:16< shadowm> It works on Windows.
20160215 22:36:33< shadowm> Eh, maybe it's some weird interaction bug with SDL 2 on Wine.
20160215 22:36:49< shadowm> The weird part is that if I type into a textbox I get the expected characters regardless.
20160215 22:47:20< vultraz> shadowm: the reason I never updated DVS myself is I had done it for 2.33->2.34 and I didn't want to deal with the codepoints list again
20160215 22:48:15< shadowm> Yes, I remember this.
20160215 22:52:46< Elvish_Hunter> Indeed, handling the codepoints wasn't easy. I checked them three times, to be sure.
20160215 22:54:13 * shadowm tries to think of more tedious tasks to assign to Elvish_Hunter.
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20160215 22:55:29< shadowm> Oh, I know: finding all spelling fixes merged as PRs over the past year that haven't been backported to 1.12 (with pofix rules)!
20160215 22:56:27< shadowm> Just kidding. That's vultraz's job (since he's the committer of most of those).
20160215 22:56:56< vultraz> noooooooooo
20160215 22:57:00< vultraz> give that to someone else
20160215 22:57:03< vultraz> I'm overloaded here
20160215 22:57:05< vultraz> please
20160215 22:57:07< vultraz> I can't do that
20160215 22:57:19< vultraz> (not that I technically can't I just have a very full plate)
20160215 22:58:22< shadowm> Such laziness.
20160215 23:00:15< vultraz> ....
20160215 23:00:27< vultraz> Ok, yes, I don't want to deal with pofix
20160215 23:00:33< vultraz> But I also have SO MUCH to do
20160215 23:00:39< shadowm> Now.
20160215 23:00:41< vultraz> Not just for wesnoth and all the GUI2 hacks
20160215 23:00:48< vultraz> But also real life stuff
20160215 23:00:49< shadowm> It wasn't the case back when I actually explained the rules to you.
20160215 23:01:04< vultraz> There's so much going on
20160215 23:01:09< vultraz> Plus classes
20160215 23:01:29< vultraz> And stuff to deal with
20160215 23:01:33< vultraz> So ffs
20160215 23:01:37< vultraz> I'm not being lazy 
20160215 23:01:40< shadowm> Since then, you always had the option to keep track of the PRs that would need to be merged to 1.12 later by writing them down somewhere.
20160215 23:01:59< vultraz> I failed my driver's test yesterday bc I was so stressed 
20160215 23:02:06< vultraz> SO DON'T GET TO ME ABOUT BEING LAZY
20160215 23:02:25< shadowm> You could've then handed me the list and I'd at least not have to track them down myself.
20160215 23:02:35-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20160215 23:03:00< shadowm> (Yes, I realized ages ago that the task would befall on me as is the norm with pretty much everything that isn't my job.)
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20160215 23:23:33< vultraz> shadowm: can you observe the turn dialog being drawn over a black background
20160215 23:24:44< shadowm> What turn dialog? The one that I never use and is disabled by default?
20160215 23:24:49< vultraz> yes
20160215 23:25:24< shadowm> Can confirm, yes.
20160215 23:25:37< shadowm> Not only is the background black, but the minimap also goes black as if covered in shroud.
20160215 23:25:55< shadowm> (Perhaps a bug in the blindfold feature?)
20160215 23:26:25< vultraz> here it also makes the End Turn and menu buttons disappear
20160215 23:26:33< shadowm> Ah yes, I just noticed that.
20160215 23:27:07< shadowm> In that case it's probably not related to blindfold, but rather the dialog being brought up at a time Wesnoth is doing something stupid.
20160215 23:27:28< vultraz> Aginor: ^ is this fixed in guifixes?
20160215 23:31:57< vultraz> bleh
20160215 23:32:15< vultraz> unrelated bug...
20160215 23:32:33< vultraz> skip ai moves is backwards
20160215 23:32:42< vultraz> if you toggle it on in prefs, it goes off
20160215 23:32:47< vultraz> must investigate
20160215 23:34:54< vultraz> shadowm: ok there's a case of misleading moniker here
20160215 23:35:02< vultraz> the pref is 'show_ai_moves'
20160215 23:35:12< vultraz> so you'd expect it to be true by default
20160215 23:35:18< vultraz> but it's displayed as "skip ai moves"
20160215 23:35:24< vultraz> which should be false by default
20160215 23:35:26< ancestral> iceiceice, celticminstrel, mattsc: This came up on Hacker News (I haven’t read it yet)
20160215 23:35:45< vultraz> shadowm: what do you propose?
20160215 23:36:02< vultraz> shadowm: either I can change the displayed checks or change the internal pref name and flip all the checks on it
20160215 23:36:12< vultraz> s/checks/name
20160215 23:36:52< shadowm> ancestral: What did?
20160215 23:38:17< shadowm> vultraz: In 1.12 it's show_ai_moves (default = true) and the preferences dialog NOTs the UI value every time.
20160215 23:38:33< ancestral> vultraz: Regarding earlier
20160215 23:38:41< ancestral> shadowm: whoops
20160215 23:38:49< ancestral> Kinda helps to have a link, eh?
20160215 23:38:52< ancestral> http://octavore.com/posts/2016/02/15/distributing-go-apps-os-x
20160215 23:39:11< ancestral> (Distributing OS X binaries using Homebrew )
20160215 23:39:53< ancestral> vultraz: The “fix”?
20160215 23:40:13< ancestral> Does anyone have a way to contact any of our Chinese translators?
20160215 23:40:30< vultraz> ancestral: removing the other comma separated family_order options
20160215 23:40:35< vultraz> ancestral: Ivanovic would, probably
20160215 23:40:37< shadowm> We have a translation ML, and there's also the maintainers listed in https://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothTranslations and their respective team pages.
20160215 23:40:45< vultraz> or that
20160215 23:41:10< ancestral> I think it would be good to at least talk with one of our Chinese translators
20160215 23:41:20< shadowm> https://gna.org/mail/?group=wesnoth - wesnoth-i18n
20160215 23:41:28< ancestral> That would be an idea
20160215 23:41:32< ancestral> Ask the mailing group
20160215 23:41:39< ancestral> That would be a very good idea
20160215 23:41:39< shadowm> Last time I was involved Ivanovic still required every maintainer to subscribe to it I think.
20160215 23:41:48< vultraz> shadowm: ah... it NOTs the value. That's not compatible with the gui2 prefs framework I came up with
20160215 23:42:04< vultraz> so I think I should change the internal name and flip the checks
20160215 23:42:26< ancestral> vultraz: Would it be okay if I were to send something on the mailing group? I’d certainly run a draft by you first (or shadowm)
20160215 23:42:52< vultraz> sure, he's a better person to run drafts by
20160215 23:43:23< shadowm> Why run a draft by me? I'm sure your knowledge of English is superior to me and at least 90% of the subscribers on that list. :p
20160215 23:43:55< ancestral> That’s a good point actually
20160215 23:44:24< ancestral> Make sure it’s not too verbose to read
20160215 23:44:43< ancestral> Maybe tomorrow
20160215 23:44:53< ancestral> I suppose I ought to subscribe to that mailing list
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 16 00:00:22 2016