--- Log opened Thu Feb 18 00:00:09 2016
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20160218 00:18:28< vultraz> shadowm: because I enjoy UI design 
20160218 00:18:33< vultraz> not the shitty toolkit
20160218 00:18:45< vultraz> but i do enjoy putting the stuff together
20160218 00:21:36< vultraz> IMO, UI design is one of the most satisfying of coding aspects, since you get to see the result
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20160218 01:27:51< irker510> wesnoth: sigurdfdragon wesnoth:master 28e5a3fdc2a9 / data/ai/dev/akihara_recruitment.cfg: Change id of broken ai to get it off the top of list in mp debug. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/28e5a3fdc2a9f1b787aaed5535e291999b87ee29
20160218 01:27:51< irker510> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 4555a81c01f1 / data/ai/dev/akihara_recruitment.cfg: Merge pull request #605 from sigurdfdragon/Move_akihara_ai_off_top_of_debug_list https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4555a81c01f12c42951f31bb8fa6785c664c856d
20160218 01:28:23< mattsc> SigurdFD: ^  (although I assume that this is already highlighted for you)
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20160218 02:00:07< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#8508 (master - 4555a81 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20160218 02:00:08< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/110019845
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20160218 02:41:04< vultraz> shadowm: why did you make the status label in Description not use the same coloring as the list for 'Not Installed'?
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20160218 03:26:23< shadowm> vultraz: Because it has a different role in the main list.
20160218 03:27:05< vultraz> so I should maintain this distinction?
20160218 03:27:51< shadowm> In the main list, the status label acts as a smaller annotation (notice even the font size is smaller) that ought to not get in the way most of the time.
20160218 03:28:31< shadowm> That's why it has a secondary role color when the status is "Not installed" -- because most add-ons will have that status most of the time.
20160218 03:29:12< shadowm> Neither of these aspects apply to the Description dialog, which is also a user-triggered action.
20160218 03:31:47< vultraz> Well, I had though having the same color coding would be helpful 
20160218 03:32:17< shadowm> Not really.
20160218 03:37:09< vultraz> ok, next question: given that this new design would have the manager full-sized, it makes no sense from a ui standpoint to close it before installing. Instead, I was thinking of having a scrollbar in the details section to show download status
20160218 03:37:16< vultraz> er
20160218 03:37:19< vultraz> progress bar
20160218 03:37:28< vultraz> not scrollbar, sorry
20160218 03:38:55< vultraz> uninstallation shouldn't close it either
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20160218 03:39:19< vultraz> instead, I propose fetching the new server list in the uninstall callback and then simply regenerating the listbox
20160218 03:39:20< shadowm> You will lose track of the forest.
20160218 03:40:36< vultraz> er wait. you DON'T need to regenerate the listbox on uninstall
20160218 03:40:41< vultraz> only time you need to do that is uh...
20160218 03:40:52< vultraz> taking down an addon
20160218 03:41:44< vultraz> what is this about forests
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20160218 03:42:03< celticminstrel> I think he's referring to "can't see the forest for the trees".
20160218 03:42:20< shadowm> Knowing you, you will either take this as an insult or ignore it entirely, but I strongly advice you don't try to deal with the networking parts if you value your ability to use your brain.
20160218 03:42:27< shadowm> *advise
20160218 03:43:00< shadowm> I have a few ideas for stuff we can try a couple of years later when this stuff finally hits production in a non-buggy quality, but for now it's beyond scope.
20160218 03:43:25 * celticminstrel wonders exactly what is meant by "this stuff".
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20160218 03:44:02< shadowm> The stuff being currently discussed here, the GUI2 Add-ons Manager.
20160218 03:44:51< shadowm> Oh right, I said stuff twice in the same sentence. The first stuff can be safely elided along with the attached preposition without altering the intended meaning.
20160218 03:45:22< vultraz> Alright, I'll leave the networking alone
20160218 03:45:53< vultraz> I'll finish the layout, at least, and commit that to master (*unactivated*, of course)
20160218 03:46:03< vultraz> For future!me/you to finish
20160218 03:51:06< shadowm> Ah yes, composite PRs. How I love these.
20160218 03:51:22< vultraz> what?
20160218 03:51:38 * shadowm is looking at #603.
20160218 03:53:01< celticminstrel> Sorry. >_>
20160218 03:54:33< shadowm> Is get_acquaintances().begin() != get_acquantainces().end() a certain precondition when 
20160218 03:54:49< shadowm> ... when calling gui2::tpreferences::edit_friend_list_entry()?
20160218 03:55:17< shadowm> Oh right, I get sel < 0 in that case.
20160218 03:55:36< shadowm> Are we sure we're not advancing the iterator to end() or past, though?
20160218 03:55:46< shadowm> (Link: https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/wesnoth/commit/342532e84154a2a9c71a0e12501ab800678c63bc#diff-43f8d21537d836c5770fbe4e639ecadfR372 )
20160218 03:57:02< celticminstrel> Hmm.
20160218 03:57:09< shadowm> / Clip at 50 because if it's too low it'll cause crashes
20160218 03:57:19< celticminstrel> Huh?
20160218 03:57:23< shadowm> What's that suspicious smell.
20160218 03:57:26< celticminstrel> Oh, that.
20160218 03:57:55< shadowm> Does it crash specifically because it's below 50%, or because of a more convoluted underlying issue?
20160218 03:57:56< celticminstrel> I think it was when font scaling somehow became 0 that Wesnoth crashed.
20160218 03:58:38< celticminstrel> Regarding edit_friend_list_entry, the listbox was populated from the map, and is repopulated whenever an entry is added or removed, so I'm pretty sure they'll always have the same number of elements.
20160218 03:58:48< shadowm> Okay.
20160218 03:59:51< shadowm> Well, Wesnoth doesn't seem to crash when rendering a <span size='0'> block here.
20160218 04:00:07< shadowm> But maybe using markup just doesn't cut it for reproducing.
20160218 04:01:26< shadowm> preferences::font_scaled() is a prime candidate for inlining. Not sure if the compiler can ever do that without LTO across multiple object files.
20160218 04:01:55< celticminstrel> Are you suggesting I move it to the header?
20160218 04:01:59< shadowm> But I suppose ttext::set_font_size() doesn't get called all the time.
20160218 04:02:31< shadowm> Meh, it's not important.
20160218 04:02:58< celticminstrel> I can't remember the circumstances of the crash with too-low font scaling factor.
20160218 04:06:00< shadowm>  +twindow_builder::tresolution::ttip::ttip(const config& cfg, std::string tagname) : id(cfg["id"])
20160218 04:06:18< vultraz> what does std::advance do?
20160218 04:06:20< shadowm> tagname really doesn't need to be by value here.
20160218 04:06:26< shadowm> vultraz: "Advance this iterator n times".
20160218 04:06:49< celticminstrel> vultraz: std::advance(iter, n) is like "iter + n" except possibly slower.
20160218 04:06:50< shadowm> vultraz: Actually, scratch that, I didn't say that.
20160218 04:07:02< shadowm> This is what I said instead:
20160218 04:07:09< shadowm> vultraz: http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/iterator/advance
20160218 04:07:18< celticminstrel> Heh.
20160218 04:07:57< shadowm> The key point here is that it works even for iterators that do not define the `i + n` operation (where n an integer and i an iterator).
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20160218 04:08:32< shadowm> But most of the time, iterator types that don't define that operation don't do so because either 1) the operation is inherently incompatible with the container they apply to; 2) the operation is inherently inefficient.
20160218 04:08:33< celticminstrel> Which is why "possibly slower".
20160218 04:09:12< shadowm> Special care must be taken to ensure the result does not exceed the container's range, because the library will not do this for you.
20160218 04:09:23< shadowm> Just like array subscripts, really.
20160218 04:10:42< shadowm> celticminstrel: gui2::twindow_builder::tresolution::ttip's constructor takes a string by value.
20160218 04:10:53< celticminstrel> Yeah, I saw you mention that already.
20160218 04:11:05< celticminstrel> I've already updated my local files to fix that.
20160218 04:11:17< celticminstrel> ...I suppose I could const it too.
20160218 04:11:52< shadowm> https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/wesnoth/commit/7e09708210babeeb764d6c37335b7002946572b8 <- What's going on with the mass-removal of color ranges?
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20160218 04:12:06< celticminstrel> They're duplicates.
20160218 04:12:30< celticminstrel> But I can undo it if you want.
20160218 04:12:42< shadowm> No, I just...
20160218 04:12:51< shadowm> I'm not sure what I was expecting from the original author, really.
20160218 04:13:19< vultraz> celticminstrel: hm.. in _GUI_ICON , where's {label} defined?
20160218 04:13:33< celticminstrel> vultraz: Since it's in a << >> string, it's not evaluated as a macro.
20160218 04:13:41< shadowm> name = "('buttons/misc/orb{STATE}.png" + <<~RC(magenta>{label})')>>
20160218 04:13:46< shadowm> Wut.
20160218 04:13:59< shadowm> Is "{foo}" part of the formula syntax?
20160218 04:14:23< celticminstrel> Well, the tests at the bottom of formula.cpp seem to imply it is, at least.
20160218 04:14:27< shadowm> Because this funnels "{label}" verbatim past the processor.
20160218 04:14:54< shadowm> *preprocessor
20160218 04:15:16< celticminstrel> The intent was to take the value of the "label" formula variable and interpolate it into the string. Since vultraz got all-black orbs, I'm not quite sure if that actually worked as intended.
20160218 04:15:29< shadowm> Well, what do the braces do? It's not documented in the wiki.
20160218 04:15:41< celticminstrel> I'll paste the test code for you.
20160218 04:16:27< celticminstrel> assert(formula("'strength, agility: {strength}, {agility}'").execute(c).as_string() == "strength, agility: 15, 12");
20160218 04:16:48< celticminstrel> (I haven't actually run that test code, mind you.(
20160218 04:16:50< celticminstrel> ^)
20160218 04:17:12< shadowm> So it's an undocumented interpolation syntax I guess?
20160218 04:17:18< celticminstrel> Seems like it.
20160218 04:18:03< shadowm> That snippet doesn't seem to give values to 'strength' or 'agility', so I take it that's set in the local context in some fashion.
20160218 04:18:11< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20160218 04:18:30< celticminstrel> It comes from that c variable.
20160218 04:18:46< celticminstrel> Which is of formula_callable type.
20160218 04:19:28< shadowm> There is no copyright given for src/gui/dialogs/select_orb_colors.?pp.
20160218 04:19:45< celticminstrel> Should I put my name?
20160218 04:19:50< shadowm> Just mentioning this, I'm not going to suggest a course of action.
20160218 04:19:53< celticminstrel> Ah.
20160218 04:20:02< celticminstrel> I didn't put one in my label settings dialog either.
20160218 04:20:47< shadowm> gui2::tselect_orb_colors::setup_orb_group() has a string passed by value.
20160218 04:21:05< shadowm> I take it color needs to be a R/W reference.
20160218 04:22:19< celticminstrel> Yeah, it's assigned on line 125.
20160218 04:22:32< shadowm> https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/wesnoth/commit/33b6e92f2e4d11ff83b32a2217e7e842241b0305 -- I suggest raising the severity for the diagnostic message to warning.
20160218 04:23:09< shadowm> Otherwise almost nobody will ever see it unless they are specifically looking for it, even if it's the result of some mistake or typo in the WML file.
20160218 04:24:56< shadowm> Okay, I'm building and testing this now.
20160218 04:25:29< shadowm> Actually...
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20160218 04:26:16< shadowm> Yeah, I loooove these modern and user-friendly web pages where connection errors result in unresponsiveness without any kind of visible feedback at all.
20160218 04:27:31< shadowm> celticminstrel: Why are callers of font::line_size() required to do the font metric maths themselves rather than integrating it into the function like you did with font::draw_text_line() ?
20160218 04:27:59< celticminstrel> Because it turns out that draw_text_line calls line_size.
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20160218 04:28:52< celticminstrel> But if I just do the math in line_size, the font size doesn't change (it's aligned as if it were larger, but it isn't actually).
20160218 04:29:05< shadowm> If the SDL_ttf API wasn't slated for destruction I'd ask you to visibly document this major semantics caveat.
20160218 04:29:34< shadowm> "Percentage Font Scaling"... no.
20160218 04:29:40< celticminstrel> Yeah, I also figured that there probably wouldn't be any future uses of this - people would use ttext instead.
20160218 04:29:52< shadowm> The text should be in Sentence case and it also ought to be less awkward.
20160218 04:30:19< shadowm> "Font scaling factor: <n>%" "Font scaling: <n>%" "Font scale: <n>%"
20160218 04:30:55< shadowm> So interestingly, increasing the scale has an immediate effect, but decreasing it doesn't.
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20160218 04:31:34< shadowm> Also, by increasing the scale you can see the GUI2 window's tscroll_panel-based layout become evident.
20160218 04:31:58< celticminstrel> Really? I didn't actually test that after changing how the slider was registered; when I was testing it didn't take effect until the dialog was closed. And yeah, you get extra scrollbars when it's large.
20160218 04:32:01< shadowm> (By which I mean it becomes very unusable.)
20160218 04:32:39< shadowm> Okay so, increasing the scale has an instant effect, but decreasing it doesn't, except on the slider value label itself.
20160218 04:33:35< shadowm> I doubt vultraz will be very impressed by this screenshot: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/Screenshots/zzzzz9.png
20160218 04:34:15< shadowm> That screenshot also happens to show a notable quirk of GUI2 sliders: their position does not necessarily reflect their value.
20160218 04:35:17< celticminstrel> I kinda dislike how they're smooth rather than snapping into the allowed values.
20160218 04:35:48< shadowm> Also, that slider and its label are incorrectly positioned.
20160218 04:36:05< shadowm> The indentation to the left on the Frequency slider indicates that it's attached to the Show unit idle animations option.
20160218 04:36:16< shadowm> Compare with the Scroll speed slider on the General page.
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20160218 04:37:21< shadowm> I haven't touched the orb settings yet and I'm noticing that player-controlled units have magenta orbs.
20160218 04:38:01< celticminstrel> That might be because of the removed colour-names.
20160218 04:38:27< shadowm> This screenshot summarizes my issues with composite PRs: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/Screenshots/zzzzz10.png
20160218 04:38:57< shadowm> 20160218 01:36:47 error display: caught config::error while processing color-range RC: Invalid color range: orb_1brightgreen
20160218 04:39:01< celticminstrel> Do you prefer "scaling factor", "scaling", or "scale"?
20160218 04:39:04< shadowm> Yeah, your theory is probably correct.
20160218 04:39:32< shadowm> Orbs seem correct with a fresh configuration set.
20160218 04:39:57< shadowm> This does mean that orbs will look broken to many people who used 1.13.0 - 1.13.2, though.
20160218 04:40:32< celticminstrel> I had considered the idea of correcting for that in the preferences functions.
20160218 04:40:34< shadowm> celticminstrel: "scale", although the percentage sign on the value label is important.
20160218 04:40:47< celticminstrel> I definitely want the percent sign too.
20160218 04:40:55< celticminstrel> Not sure if bind_status_label can handle that.
20160218 04:41:11< shadowm> Using a fresh config set does _not_ fix the all-black orbs in the dialog, though.
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20160218 04:41:50< shadowm> Also, you've got the OK and Cancel buttons reversed. We use the Windows/KDE order here, not Gnome/OS X's.
20160218 04:42:10< celticminstrel> That seems weird, but I can do it easily.
20160218 04:42:27< shadowm> It's not weird, it's just not the way OS X does it.
20160218 04:42:40< celticminstrel> Oh hey, bind_status_label is defined in tpreferences.
20160218 04:44:26< celticminstrel> Does the percent sign need to be included as part of a translatable string?
20160218 04:44:33 * celticminstrel guesses yes but hopes no.
20160218 04:44:38< shadowm> Probably not.
20160218 04:45:16< shadowm> I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure we have far more egregious i18n violations involving numbers in other contexts.
20160218 04:54:33< celticminstrel> Any objections to making changes to font scaling take effect only when the dialog is closed?
20160218 04:55:09 * celticminstrel also isn't sure how that screenshot summarizes issues with composite PRs.
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20160218 04:56:31< shadowm> The fact that it needs to be discussed in the same context as an unrelated change.
20160218 04:57:00< shadowm> What difference does it make if the changes are applied later instead of immediately?
20160218 04:57:35< celticminstrel> I suppose not much, but I kinda dislike it changing as you move the slider.
20160218 04:58:18< shadowm> It is slightly confusing, but it'd also be the one high-impact setting that doesn't have an immediate effect.
20160218 04:58:32< celticminstrel> Hmm.
20160218 04:58:46< celticminstrel> I wonder if there's a way to defer it until mouse-up, then...
20160218 04:59:23< vultraz> celticminstrel: yes, bind_status_label is a prefs-only function
20160218 04:59:31< vultraz> celticminstrel: I don't think it had any use elsewhere
20160218 04:59:40< shadowm> Sliders can also be changed with the keyboard arrow keys if they already have the "focus".
20160218 04:59:56< celticminstrel> vultraz: Frankly, I think that it's an essential aspect of sliders in general.
20160218 05:00:05< shadowm> (Scare quotes because it's the most infuriatingly non-obvious feature ever, same as GUI1.)
20160218 05:02:06< celticminstrel> Though actually I'd prefer a label which is "attached" to the thumb and moves with it.
20160218 05:02:47< shadowm> Never seen that being used anywhere before.
20160218 05:03:57< celticminstrel> So, the font scaling slider should not line up with the slider above it, right?
20160218 05:04:27< shadowm> No.
20160218 05:06:13< celticminstrel> ...that's weird how it gets larger as you drag, but not smaller.
20160218 05:07:56< celticminstrel> Hmm, maybe I don't quite understand how these GUI formula things work.
20160218 05:08:27< celticminstrel> The icon toggle button definition had name="(icon)", and icon seemingly referred to the icon= key in the actual [toggle_button].
20160218 05:09:24< celticminstrel> But with the orb definition, label appears to have a value of 0 even though there's a label= key in the actual [toggle_button]. (This probably explains the all-black orbs.)
20160218 05:18:48< shadowm> Oh dear _gods_.
20160218 05:19:04< shadowm> GUI1 textboxes are bugged.
20160218 05:19:17< celticminstrel> Oh my.
20160218 05:19:33< celticminstrel> Where are they still used, anyway?
20160218 05:19:59< shadowm> I suspect it's something about the way they render text into a transparent surface, plus SDL 2: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/Screenshots/zzzzz11.png
20160218 05:20:37< shadowm> Ah right, I had previously reported this to Aginor but using the map description box as a test case instead.
--- Log opened Thu Feb 18 05:24:00 2016
20160218 05:24:10-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160218 05:24:10-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20160218 05:24:10-!- Topic set by shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] [Sun Jan 17 05:24:23 2016]
20160218 05:24:10[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20160218 05:24:10[ _laco          ] [ EliDupree ] [ legoktm     ] [ Samual    ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ aeonchild      ] [ Elsi      ] [ lobby       ] [ shadowm   ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ aeth           ] [ esr       ] [ Lohengramm  ] [ shikadibot] 
20160218 05:24:10[ Aginor         ] [ fendrin   ] [ loonycyborg ] [ SigurdFD  ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ AI0867         ] [ Gambit    ] [ matthiaskrgr] [ Soliton   ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ aidanhs        ] [ Greywhind ] [ midzer      ] [ TC01      ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ ancestral      ] [ heirecka  ] [ minzbonbon  ] [ TheJJ     ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ Appleman1234   ] [ higgins   ] [ molgrum     ] [ timotei_  ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ atarocch       ] [ Ivanovic  ] [ new_one_    ] [ tomreyn   ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ celticminstrel ] [ iwaim_    ] [ nurupo      ] [ vincent_c ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ clavi          ] [ janebot   ] [ oldlaptop   ] [ vultraz   ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ Crendgrim      ] [ Jetrel    ] [ pydsigner   ] [ wedge009  ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ crimson_penguin] [ Jetrel_bot] [ pyndragon   ] [ Yaiyan    ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ danni          ] [ kidneb    ] [ quentinp    ] [ ypnos     ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ DDR            ] [ knotwork__] [ Ravana_     ] [ {V}       ] 
20160218 05:24:10[ elias          ] [ Kwandulin ] [ Rhonda      ] 
20160218 05:24:10-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 63 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 63 normal]
20160218 05:25:20-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 05:28:41 2009
20160218 05:26:33-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 153 secs
20160218 05:26:41< celticminstrel> The blindfold title is cut off...
20160218 05:30:46< celticminstrel> So, if I change it to use "icon" instead of "label" for the colour, it works. (Or at least, when I set a breakpoint in the image loader, it says ~RC(magenta>brightgreen) instead of ~RC(magenta>0).)
20160218 05:33:06< celticminstrel> shadowm: Should I add special handling so that people who have used 1.13.0-1.13.2 don't have their orbs changed to magenta due to the removed colour names?
20160218 05:33:52< shadowm> Yes, although more generally we shouldn't try to use color ranges that don't exist.
20160218 05:39:06< celticminstrel> Before pushing I'm going to squash down all the fixup commits.
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20160218 06:16:03< vultraz> celticminstrel: I *suspect* if you wanted to use label you could, if you added that variable
20160218 06:16:16< vultraz> but I don't know
20160218 06:16:34< celticminstrel> Well, I made it use icon instead, so whatever.
20160218 06:16:46< vultraz> celticminstrel: also, yes, it is an essential part of sliders in general, but bind_status_label is for any widget
20160218 06:16:48< celticminstrel> Actually, ideally the variable would be called color.
20160218 06:16:57< vultraz> celticminstrel: default sliders already have that functionality, you know
20160218 06:16:59< celticminstrel> But whatever.
20160218 06:17:06< celticminstrel> Huh?
20160218 06:17:13< vultraz> status labels
20160218 06:17:19< vultraz> always have
20160218 06:21:53-!- SigurdFD [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-176-151.zoominternet.net] has quit []
20160218 06:24:29< celticminstrel> PR updated.
20160218 06:24:48-!- danni [~quassel@203-206-161-81.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160218 06:25:44< celticminstrel> Should fix the two issues vultraz brought up, and I think I addressed everything shadowm said.
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20160218 06:54:39< celticminstrel> And Travis passed this time, too.
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20160218 09:18:43< irker191> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 217a6f7e6bb6 / start/1.12/ (63 files in 2 dirs): Use same protocol for links, and new changelog.w.o/X.Y links https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/217a6f7e6bb679d035abbde81c6e068a4cca99d6
20160218 09:19:09< irker191> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 f1916bb7c353 / utils/pofix.py: pofix: Add latest website rules https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f1916bb7c353c384cc0ec3b377e5f87e5adfc390
20160218 09:19:12< irker191> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 7bbb18452e76 / utils/pofix.py: pofix: Add latest website rules https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7bbb18452e763a7a4faedc2c68923c6a6d52a7ca
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20160218 10:28:45< Necrosporus> What am I doing wrong? wesnoth.org redirects me to github
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20160218 10:46:37< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#8511 (master - 7bbb184 : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build passed.
20160218 10:46:37< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/110076271
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20160218 10:49:14< loonycyborg> wow wesnboth.org redirects to changelog
20160218 10:49:38< loonycyborg> it seems someone was screwing around with the website :P
20160218 11:04:32-!- prkc [~prkc@46.166.188.226] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160218 11:18:12< loonycyborg> the main page is fixed now
20160218 12:05:37< Rhonda> Necrosporus: Thanks for noticing it and reporting it btw.!
20160218 12:06:05< wedge009> gfgtdf: I'm not sure if you get automatically notified, but your commit last month is a problem for user hot-keys: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/28be388d6d59783e140aeaad1f3410766212d056#diff-fce7a1e6525522f3e4ab47349051a806L770
20160218 12:08:17< wedge009> Aginor, vultraz, and anyone else interested, I finally (!) got around to fixing the other bugs related to PR #564. I was delayed by the aforementioned breakage making me think that my changes were wrong.
20160218 12:08:22< wedge009> Please let me know if you find anything not working as expected, other than the lack of user hot-keys at title screen and resetting to default hot-keys being broken.
20160218 12:17:20< Necrosporus> Rhonda, I'm surprised if it was I noticing it first while I do not go to wesnoth.org often
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20160218 12:19:52< Rhonda> Necrosporus: Trust me, we don't do it so often neither. :)
20160218 12:20:09< Rhonda> You probably haven't noticed it first - but you reported it first, so credit where credit is due :)
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20160218 12:45:13< gfgtdf> 20160218 12:06:05< wedge009> gfgtdf: I'm not sure if you get automatically notified, but your commit last month is a problem for user hot-keys: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit
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20160218 12:46:25< gfgtdf> wedge009: maybe you can just puta preferences::load_hotkeys() where the  'const preferences::display_manager ..' line was ?
20160218 12:47:54< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i think i'll try to rewrite dark forecast, so that the most of the code willl be lua.
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20160218 13:38:05< zookeeper> gfgtdf, AFAICT the logic isn't super-complicated so i don't really think there's much need to do it in lua. but if that's what you're more comfortable with, then i don't see a problem.
20160218 13:40:14< zookeeper> i think it's generally a bad idea to start rewriting scenario logic in lua unless there's a pressing need of some kind to do so, but if one is rewriting a single standalone scenario like that, then it's all good as far as i'm concerned.
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20160218 13:53:06< gfgtdf> zookeeper: here is my commit: https://github.com/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/commit/92decfdf4d07ca3efbdeab03d0ea830fb7b4984e
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20160218 14:08:02< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#604 (lua_read_file - cde7712 : gfgtdf): The build has errored.
20160218 14:08:02< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/110123784
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20160218 14:12:08< wedge009> gfgtdf: Duh, silly me. Thanks, that seems to fix it. If you don't do it yourself, I'll add the line somewhere in my PR later. It's after 1 am for me, so I'm out.
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20160218 15:10:01< zookeeper> gfgtdf, uh, that was... fast? did you basically just convert the code to lua or did you otherwise sanitize the structure somehow?
20160218 15:10:32< zookeeper> btw, a function is called "create_timed_spawms"
20160218 15:11:36< gfgtdf> zookeeper: well i did some small improvements but the main dadastructures are the same. I also had parts of the code written yesterday.
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20160218 15:13:43< gfgtdf> zookeeper: by main datastructors i mean the timed_spawn, fixed_spaem, and main_spawn wml arrays.
20160218 15:14:03< zookeeper> mmkay
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20160218 15:14:37< zookeeper> well, i can't say much based on the diff, but if it works then great
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20160218 15:17:08< celticminstrel> Did anyone test the updated PR603?
20160218 15:17:13< zookeeper> i'd suggest a typo-fix run on the commit message though
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20160218 15:18:35< gfgtdf> zookeeper: y i was alredy plannign to do that
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20160218 15:20:47< gfgtdf> zookeeper: the old code usd a greater_then=11 instead of a greater_than=11, not sure how i should port this, shodul it heve like greater_than=11 would have behaved or shoudl it behave liek it previously behaved?
20160218 15:22:15< zookeeper> uh, i see no greater_then in the old code?
20160218 15:22:39< gfgtdf> zookeeper: less_then i meant
20160218 15:23:58< zookeeper> huh. yeah, i guess you should "fix" it, not assume that the old broken behavior was wanted.
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20160218 16:20:04< mattsc> celticminstrel: btw, I don’t know if that was clear yesterday, but it is also possible to add several instances of the same main_loop stage to a side.
20160218 16:20:23< celticminstrel> What would be the point of that?
20160218 16:20:56< mattsc> What would be the point of adding two stages of any kind to an AI?
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20160218 16:22:38< mattsc> This is a supporting argument for getting rid of the other stages.  If, for some reason, somebody believes several stages are needed, this can be done by using several instances of the main_loop stage.  No need to keep other types of stages around.
20160218 16:23:21< celticminstrel> So basically you're arguing that stages are entirely unnecessary.
20160218 16:23:37< mattsc> Yes and no.  There is a difference between how the engine goes through stages and how it goes through CAs.
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20160218 16:24:15< mattsc> A stage is gone through and once the engine is done with it, it never comes back to it.
20160218 16:24:26< celticminstrel> Per turn, right?
20160218 16:24:31< mattsc> right
20160218 16:24:58< mattsc> By contrast, just because a CA does not give a positive score on this move, it will still be evaluated on the next move again.
20160218 16:25:04< mattsc> An exampe of that is recruiting.
20160218 16:25:26< celticminstrel> Should you be saying that "the engine goes through CAs" or should it be more like "the main_loop stage goes through CAs"?
20160218 16:25:36< mattsc> If all hexes are occupied, you cannot recruit.  But if a unit moves of a castle hex, recruiting might be possible.
20160218 16:26:21< mattsc> Well, the egine runs the main_loop stage.  So for what I was trying to say, that’s the same thing.  Loosely speaking.
20160218 16:26:35< celticminstrel> Wait, does this mean that, once the main_loop stage is finished, it means that all moves it considers possible/good have been made?
20160218 16:27:05< mattsc> Yes.  Why is that surprising?  Or do I not understand the question.
20160218 16:28:11< celticminstrel> It's not surprising, but it does imply there's little point to adding an additional stage since the main_loop stage pretty much does everything there is to do.
20160218 16:28:23< mattsc> My point above was that while everything that can be done with stages can also be done with CAs, it is sometimes more conveneient to use stages.
20160218 16:29:26< mattsc> The main_loop stage in its default configuration does everything the default AI does.  That is not the same as saying that the default AI does everything an AI could potentially do.
20160218 16:30:21< celticminstrel> So, in what sort of situation is it more convenient to use stages?
20160218 16:30:22< mattsc> For example, my ‘Fred’ AI uses both a CA evaluation loop (although I use my own implementation of it) and several stages.
20160218 16:30:58< celticminstrel> When you say "your own implementation of it", does that mean "main_loop with a different set of CAs"?
20160218 16:31:36< mattsc> No, I mean that I use a single CA that internally uses its own action evaluation loop.
20160218 16:31:51< mattsc> And don’t ask me why I do that right now.  ;)
20160218 16:31:52< celticminstrel> Why... o.o
20160218 16:32:14< celticminstrel> Anyway, in what sort of situation is it more convenient to use stages?
20160218 16:32:19< mattsc> I’m happy to exaplin that some other time, don’t have time for it right now.
20160218 16:32:37< mattsc> The short answer is also: because it was more convenient to do so when I set it up.
20160218 16:33:10< mattsc> okay, as for stages, let’s come back to the Fred example for that  (which, btw, also uses its own implementation of stages :D )
20160218 16:33:41< mattsc> One of the stages is “distribute units into the three zones of the Freelands map”
20160218 16:33:59< mattsc> It is followed by “use all remaining units to move toward the enemy leader"
20160218 16:34:11< mattsc> that’s very simplified, but that’s the principle
20160218 16:34:32< celticminstrel> Hmm. So would you say that stages are better when dealing with complex goals?
20160218 16:34:47< mattsc> I could implement the first stage with CAs that have higher eval scores than those of the second stage, but within the same main_loop stage
20160218 16:35:33< mattsc> but then, once I am done with those of the first stage, I would always have to make sure that the AI does not use them again, for example by setting a variable
20160218 16:36:03< mattsc> If I use stages, I don’t need to do that.  Once the engine is done with the stage, it will never go back to it.
20160218 16:36:15< mattsc> No, I would not say that as a general principle.
20160218 16:36:34< mattsc> All I am saying is that there exist cases in which it might be more convenient to use stages.
20160218 16:36:45< mattsc> There are other cases when it is more convenient to use CAs.
20160218 16:37:14< celticminstrel> And CAs are a feature of the main_loop, which other types of stages need not have.
20160218 16:37:37< mattsc> As I said, in Fred I am using both, and that is definitely a complex AI.  And I am using my own implementation of both simply because I have more control over transferring information between them in that case.
20160218 16:38:09< mattsc> CAs are a feature of the main_loop stage that other CAs do not have.
20160218 16:38:30< mattsc> But everything that can be done with any of the other stages can also be done with the main_loop stage.
20160218 16:38:34< mattsc> So why keep them around?
20160218 16:38:52< mattsc> s/other CAs/other stages
20160218 16:39:43< celticminstrel> Well, I imagine you could probably write a Lua stage that uses CAs if you really wanted to, though.
20160218 16:40:16< celticminstrel> I don't really have any compelling reasons to keep them around, but I feel like leaving the option for Lua stages open isn't a bad thing.
20160218 16:42:09< celticminstrel> Even if FormulaAI were not dropped I don't see why there's two predefined fai stages.
20160218 16:42:59< celticminstrel> Recruitment... I feel like I've forgotten one...
20160218 16:43:19< mattsc> fallback
20160218 16:43:26< celticminstrel> Ah, right.
20160218 16:43:35< celticminstrel> The name makes it sound useful, but I dunno.
20160218 16:44:03< celticminstrel> What does fallback actually do...
20160218 16:44:38< celticminstrel> Is it like dumping a predefined AI definition in?
20160218 16:45:25< mattsc> Okay, let me ask you this:  Let’s assume we have two stages, A and B.  You can easily do everything with stage B that stage A can do.  You can, in principle, also do everything stage B can do with stage A, but only with a lot of effort.
20160218 16:45:37< mattsc> Would you keep Stage A?
20160218 16:45:59< mattsc> on your qustion: yes
20160218 16:46:23< mattsc> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Wesnoth_AI_Framework#Fallback_stage
20160218 16:59:03< celticminstrel> What's with this eval_parms and exec_parms. Why are they keys and not tags.
20160218 17:02:26< mattsc> because that’s how nephro implemented them
20160218 17:02:45< mattsc> I’m going to be in meetings for the next few hours, won’t be able to reply for a while
20160218 17:02:57< celticminstrel> I think they should really be tags, just like [lua][args].
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20160218 17:20:38< mattsc> feel free to do so, no objections from me
20160218 17:22:38< mattsc> It does make a lot of sense to do so.
20160218 17:26:51< celticminstrel> Okay if I push it to the same branch as that other stuff? (And I'll update the branch while I'm at it.)
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20160218 19:03:05< mattsc> celticminstrel: [surfacing for air for 2 min]  be aware that, if you do that, you’ll be breaking all the Micro AIs  (and possibly some other AIs in campaigns)
20160218 19:03:14< mattsc> So you’ll have to adapt those as well.
20160218 19:04:16< celticminstrel> I'd keep the old syntax around initially, at least.
20160218 19:04:28< celticminstrel> Since one is a key and one is a tag, they don't conflict even if their names are the same.
20160218 19:04:37< mattsc> ok
20160218 19:05:02< mattsc> in other words, you’ll be punting and putting the ball in my court  ;)
20160218 19:05:33< celticminstrel> Well, I might update other AIs myself - it's not like it'd be hard.
20160218 19:05:46< celticminstrel> Simple replacement.
20160218 19:06:12< mattsc> not for the Micro AIs
20160218 19:06:23< mattsc> It’s all handled there by an automated mechnism written in Lua
20160218 19:06:47< mattsc> which might actually make it easier, since you don’t have to do it individually for each one of them, but I’d have to think about it
20160218 19:09:02< celticminstrel> Storing it as a tag might actually simplify that automated mechanism.
20160218 19:09:46< mattsc> indeed
20160218 19:10:40< mattsc> as in, yes, I agree  (wasn’t meant to sound cynical or something)
20160218 19:16:58< vultraz> ancestral: I noticed with only DVS in the family order list, 7 languages in the Language dialog don't have glyphs, while with the whole list, there are only 2
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20160218 20:55:05< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i wonder whether it'd make sense to add a difficulcy option to dark forecast, which just changes the enemey gold by a certain factor. This could easily done with mp [options] feature, but i dont really know what factrors would be good for very good/bad players.
20160218 20:56:18< gfgtdf> zookeeper: the intention behing that is also, that if people for example want to play it with a mod like xpmod, they can increase the difficulcy level to compensate.
20160218 20:56:39< zookeeper> gfgtdf, yes, i think a difficulty selector would be good. i'd think that changing the number of spawned enemies and/or the frequency of spawns would be good candidates?
20160218 20:57:23< zookeeper> if those choices were made as sliders then they should probably only have a few values, since you shouldn't be able to make very big changes
20160218 20:57:45< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i just thought of changing the 'gold' that is used in the spawning code.
20160218 20:58:13< zookeeper> yeah, since that'd affect the number of enemies
20160218 20:58:47< zookeeper> and, i mean, i think it should really only have one difficulty slider, regardless of how many aspects it affects
20160218 20:58:58< gfgtdf> zookeeper: or the levle of emeies, spending on the spawing type.
20160218 20:59:12< zookeeper> yep
20160218 21:00:59< vultraz> gfgtdf: can the display manager be removed from preferences now?
20160218 21:01:34< vultraz> or is it still necessary 
20160218 21:02:59< gfgtdf> vultraz: no the point is that if you change the preferences during a game you want it to have an effect immideateley, do it need to inform the display object about stuff liek 'show grid changed'. Otherwise they'd onyl have an effect after agame was reloaded
20160218 21:03:45< gfgtdf> zookeeper: seems like those sliders only support intergers not floats....
20160218 21:03:54< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i'll have to use percentage i guess
20160218 21:05:51< zookeeper> or if it only has like 3 values (easy, normal, hard), then maybe you can simply have an if/switch in one place which modifies some key variables
20160218 21:05:52< vultraz> gfgtdf: oh ok makes sense
20160218 21:06:47< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm i habve a problems with gui1 sliders, i somehow am unable to set them to the minimum value
20160218 21:07:28< gfgtdf> vultraz: also key arrows dotn work on gui1 slider somehow
20160218 21:07:37< vultraz> I think that's a gui2 feature
20160218 21:07:40< gfgtdf> vultraz: o can only use key arrows in the right half of the sliders
20160218 21:07:46< vultraz> oh
20160218 21:07:50< gfgtdf> vultraz: no the sliders in mp conenct are gui1 sliders
20160218 21:07:54< vultraz> well i have no idea
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20160218 21:35:21< gfgtdf> vultraz, Aginor: it seems to me liek the tooltip of gui1 widgets don't show in current master. Do you know somerthing about this ?
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20160218 21:43:47< vultraz> gfgtdf: sorry, I don't
20160218 21:51:17< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i added the difficulcy slider it can cahnge the enemy gold form 'decrease by 30%' to 'increase by 30%'
20160218 21:52:00< zookeeper> sounds like a good initial range, can be changed later if needs be
20160218 21:52:06< zookeeper> what kind of steps?
20160218 21:53:08< gfgtdf> step is 10
20160218 21:53:41< gfgtdf> so 7 steps in total (-30 -20 - 10 0 +10 +20 +30)
20160218 21:56:41< Ravana_> I suspect that is too many steps
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20160218 22:00:47< Ravana_> also, having had my previous slider in orocia, I believe it should be clearly said what exactly the slider affects, otherwise people keep using default, even if it is too difficult for them
20160218 22:01:59< gfgtdf> Ravana_: hmm yes i intend to do that bug it seems like 'description' in optionwml is currently broken in master
20160218 22:03:14< Ravana_> in 1.12 the description isn't that good either, it all needs to be in one line
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20160218 22:07:51< gfgtdf> Ravana_: hmm i dont think i'm that good with words to put all that infirmation in one line that fits in the mp setup screen.
20160218 22:08:15< gfgtdf> Ravana_: i'll just commit what i have roght now, can still change it later
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20160218 22:09:03< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 561e30bc7de2 / data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: 2p Dark Forceast cleanups https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/561e30bc7de221a6748c53c0b34564a6d8b35308
20160218 22:09:05< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 3e2dfed89db4 / data/ (14 files in 3 dirs): added border to dark forecast map https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3e2dfed89db4a530339126019c932636ce54331f
20160218 22:09:07< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 322a2f7141f6 / src/scripting/lua_fileops.cpp: allow .. in relative filenames in wesnoth.dofile/require https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/322a2f7141f6826af9b510d29d49fad838a79e7c
20160218 22:09:09< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 9c59311b41cf / src/scripting/ (lua_fileops.cpp lua_fileops.hpp lua_kernel_base.cpp): add function wesnoth.read_file https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9c59311b41cf0adca409a4c64b4197b8f5027a51
20160218 22:09:11< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 6623641ebbdf / src/scripting/lua_fileops.cpp: remove unused code https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6623641ebbdfd48a0bc88a04b8e791fb1c570979
20160218 22:09:13< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 8ee34c39b2cf / data/multiplayer/scenarios/ (2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg 2p_Dark_Forecast.lua): move most dark forecast code to lua https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8ee34c39b2cfd30cf0ba49dadaa8643d438a1fa9
20160218 22:09:15< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master f5074186554c / src/widgets/slider.cpp: fix gui1 sliders https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f5074186554cb49ad552c62033d498442d30dad1
20160218 22:09:17< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 39eb8feaf1d0 / data/multiplayer/scenarios/ (2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg 2p_Dark_Forecast.lua): add difficulcy level slider to dark forecast mp scenario https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/39eb8feaf1d063d88e8d9fd64c7133c5105320ed
20160218 22:10:28< Ravana_> well, you can make it longer, but then the text is tiny
20160218 22:10:50< gfgtdf> Ravana_: how do you mean ?
20160218 22:11:25< Ravana_> with 1.12 having description in multiple line still used the total length when calculating how small it should be to fit on screen
20160218 22:11:52< gfgtdf> Ravana_: hmm ok
20160218 22:12:35< gfgtdf> Ravana_: well my text is just one line so... .that like is just too long to use it as a name = i think
20160218 22:13:13< Ravana_> from my experience name= is just cut off at some unknown point
20160218 22:13:42< Ravana_> I think it moved the option out of screen too
20160218 22:14:08< Ravana_> with combobox
20160218 22:15:31< gfgtdf> Ravana_: well it currently very unknown whether the p setup screen will be ported to gui2 before next 1.14 release (we do have the neccearay widgets liek combobox sliders lists treeviews..  in gui2, but you never know when you'll find a bug in them) so i dont want to optimite it for the current mp configure dialog too much.
20160218 22:15:32< vultraz> gfgtdf: ty for doing all that
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20160218 22:32:36< vultraz> shadowm: I've PMed LB about the matter of combobox graphics, minimal scrollbars, svg scrolling, bg-less icons, and a few new icons I might need
20160218 22:32:44< vultraz> s/scrolling/scaling
20160218 22:33:01< vultraz> just letting you know
20160218 22:38:56< mattsc> PG
20160218 22:40:11< mattsc> sigh — sorry for that, I should probably just log out
20160218 22:46:01< celticminstrel> ...?
20160218 22:49:56< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 439ded53eebd / data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.lua: 2p dark forecast: don't store unit pool types in savefiles https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/439ded53eebdbf19c6aa56167a64007904453bca
20160218 22:49:58< irker847> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 8eafd50980eb / src/scripting/lua_fileops.cpp: fix wesnoth.read_file() https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8eafd50980eb5902be0d29117e7559697eb51edb
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20160218 23:00:50< mattsc> celticminstrel: I keep typing stuff with the wrong window in focus
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 19 00:00:00 2016