--- Log opened Thu Mar 24 00:00:20 2016
20160324 00:00:35< fendrin_> New trait icons.
20160324 00:00:52< celticminstrel> Huh? No...
20160324 00:01:18< celticminstrel> The only new trait-related thing would be for the "faerie glow" ability.
20160324 00:01:39< celticminstrel> Changelog is here, if you want to see. https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37342&p=595252#p595252
20160324 00:02:25< celticminstrel> For some reason there's no changelog for 1.3.4 though...
20160324 00:05:33< fendrin_> celticminstrel: I noticed the fairy glow ability not having the aura.
20160324 00:05:47< fendrin_> That was fixed
20160324 00:05:57< celticminstrel> Ah.
20160324 00:06:16< celticminstrel> So you were referring to that, then.
20160324 00:07:39 * celticminstrel has to go deal with supper now.
20160324 00:08:12< fendrin_> Bon Appetit.
20160324 00:08:51< celticminstrel> ...and when I get back I need to figure out why XCode is complaining about a nonexistent header that's not even being included. :|
20160324 00:09:15< celticminstrel> ...actually, I'll try one thing quickly first.
20160324 00:10:54< mattsc> celticminstrel: and now I have also confirmed that using simple aspect syntax in the same AI tag in which a Lua engine is defined works just fine.
20160324 00:11:40< mattsc> So except for that FAI thing, which likely has nothing to do with your refactor everything seems to work.
20160324 00:11:42< mattsc> Yay!
20160324 00:13:33< fendrin_> celticminstrel: Maybe quick and speedy shouldn't be combined. I have that 8MP shaman here.
20160324 00:14:17< fendrin_> celticminstrel: I guess when she advances to sylph/shyde she is even faster?
20160324 00:15:56< celticminstrel> It's just a flat +2MP on top of whatever the base is.
20160324 00:16:07< celticminstrel> So if the base goes up, then yes.
20160324 00:16:41< celticminstrel> Some of the special features depend on the presence of some trait, but it looks like speedy is not one of them.
20160324 00:17:15< celticminstrel> I see your point about combining it with quick. Not sure how much of a problem it is, but I could consider changing it.
20160324 00:19:00< mattsc> celticminstrel: the FAI lurkers already don’t work in 1.13.2; and 1.12.5!
20160324 00:19:09< mattsc> So it definitely has nothing to do with your refactor.
20160324 00:19:43< mattsc> So as far as I can tell, everything you did is working and all that needs updating is updated.
20160324 00:37:07-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 00:39:21< fendrin_> Again a quick and speedy.
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20160324 00:41:53< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9034 (master - f920a03 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20160324 00:41:53< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118117985
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20160324 01:13:41< celticminstrel> I'll investigate the FAI lurkers anyway, in case it's something simple.
20160324 01:14:15 * celticminstrel pings wedge009 
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20160324 01:22:04< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9035 (master - b017a2b : gfgtdf): The build has errored.
20160324 01:22:04< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118118611
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20160324 01:32:22< mattsc> celticminstrel: sounds good
20160324 01:32:48< mattsc> celticminstrel: as far as I know, I’ve done everything that I was going to do about the AI refactor now.  Did I miss anything?
20160324 01:33:06< celticminstrel> I can't think of anything. If I do, I'll let you know.
20160324 01:33:33< mattsc> Okay.  I still have a few things I want to do, but they aren’t directly linked to this.
20160324 01:34:10< celticminstrel> You wanted to do some cleanup, I think.
20160324 01:35:14< mattsc> Yes - but I’ll wait now until after you’re done with yours first.
20160324 01:36:04< mattsc> celticminstrel: you should also remove the first AI bug from the EasyCoding page
20160324 01:36:26< mattsc> And maybe look if there’s something else in that section you might want to take care of, now that you know the AI code so well.
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20160324 01:58:13< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9036 (master - c602803 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20160324 01:58:13< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118118799
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20160324 02:37:11< fendrin_> The 1.13 water transitions are broken.
20160324 02:37:54< vultraz> eh?
20160324 02:38:39-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 02:38:39< fendrin_> medium deep water vs tropical shallow water
20160324 02:40:40< fendrin_> tropical deep vs tropical shallow is also broken
20160324 02:43:27< fendrin_> vultraz: In the editor Place Label dialog, what is "Category" for?
20160324 02:43:51< vultraz> talk to zookeeper about the transitions
20160324 02:43:57< vultraz> and uh... I think that's for...
20160324 02:43:59< vultraz> groups?
20160324 02:44:00< vultraz> ask celticminstrel 
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20160324 02:47:24< fendrin_> vultraz: Can you reproduce the transition problems?
20160324 02:54:07< vultraz> fendrin_: no
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20160324 03:17:56< celticminstrel> fendrin_: Users can choose to hide labels by their category.
20160324 03:18:21< mattsc> celticminstrel: is it not possible to call ai.attack twice from the same CA execution now?
20160324 03:18:22< fendrin_> vultraz: Can you reproduce the transition problems?
20160324 03:18:27< fendrin_> sorry
20160324 03:18:42< celticminstrel> mattsc: Huh? I don't know any reason why it wouldn't be possible...
20160324 03:19:01< fendrin_> Who is the maintainer of the editor?
20160324 03:19:14< mattsc> I am trying to fix up some of the AI arena test scenarios and I am getting some really strange behavior.
20160324 03:19:56< mattsc> Two recruits in a row followed by an attack work
20160324 03:20:22< mattsc> but if another attacks is added, it tells me “attempt to call field 'attack' (a nil value)”
20160324 03:20:42< mattsc> (this is all during one single execution, not calling the execution function several times)
20160324 03:21:07< celticminstrel> Does it break only for the duration of the execution, or are all attacks thereafter also broken?
20160324 03:22:03< mattsc> When it gets back to the same CA again after, it does then execute the attack it previously could not do
20160324 03:22:25< mattsc> So, the former.
20160324 03:22:42< celticminstrel> Hmm...
20160324 03:23:20< mattsc> I can pastebin you my current version of the test scenario (which is still a holy mess, but less so than it was), if you want to have a look.
20160324 03:23:36< mattsc> I’m done for the day though, need to move on to other things.
20160324 03:23:48< mattsc> Or I can look into it some more tomorrow.
20160324 03:23:48< celticminstrel> Might be useful to see the scenario code, I suppose...
20160324 03:25:11< mattsc> celticminstrel: http://pastebin.com/AS9eVWtQ
20160324 03:25:25< mattsc> As I said, I am not responsible for that mess.
20160324 03:25:40< mattsc> I was just trying to get it to work in the first place; cleanup is the next step.
20160324 03:26:28< mattsc> FYI, this is data/ai/scenarios/scenario-lua-ai.cfg
20160324 03:27:34< mattsc> you can do a diff w.r.t. the original to see what I changed
20160324 03:27:51 * celticminstrel nod.
20160324 03:28:03< celticminstrel> Or I can just paste your code over the original and use git diff. :P
20160324 03:28:20< mattsc> heh, yes
20160324 03:32:35< mattsc> Btw, I know, of course, that there are still all kinds of other problems with this, such as calling the same execution several time until it fails altogether.
20160324 03:32:47< mattsc> I’m not worried about those (I know what to do about them)
20160324 03:33:03< mattsc> Currently I am only trying to understand why the two attacks in a row don’t work.
20160324 03:33:18< mattsc> And, btw, if you do an attack first, the recruit will fail next.
20160324 03:33:40< celticminstrel> So the attack function is doing something weird.
20160324 03:33:58< mattsc> Either that or I am missing something else.
20160324 03:35:06< celticminstrel> I wonder if the attack function could be assigning something to the ai table...
20160324 03:35:29< celticminstrel> Something like "ai = {}" would definitely cause that error (or rather, the C equivalent in this case).
20160324 03:41:33< celticminstrel> [Mar 23@7:18:14pm] mattsc: 3. I think a comment to the effect of “lots of other, less significant changes; check changelog and wiki” would be good
20160324 03:41:37< celticminstrel> In the release notes?
20160324 03:41:56< celticminstrel> And the forum post bit sounds good BTW.
20160324 03:42:40< celticminstrel> I did already say "see changelog or wiki for full details"...
20160324 03:43:02< mattsc> oh, okay (on the latter)
20160324 03:43:38< mattsc> I would put this into the forum post announcing the 1.13.5 post; which I believe is what the release notes get copied into.
20160324 03:43:49< celticminstrel> Yes.
20160324 03:45:14< mattsc> celticminstrel: I know for sure that in 1.12 I can use ai.attack several times in a row.
20160324 03:45:30< celticminstrel> I'm fairly sure this is some sort of weird engine bug.
20160324 03:45:47< celticminstrel> I don't have any proof at the moment, but I suspect the ai table is getting overwritten.
20160324 03:46:01< mattsc> I have not had time to check yet if this is specific to this setting, or more general.
20160324 03:46:06< mattsc> yes, I would assume so too
20160324 03:46:22< mattsc> I’ll do some more tests tomorrow
20160324 03:51:43< celticminstrel> So, my release notes explanations of how to fix compatibility breakages were not a problem?
20160324 03:54:20< mattsc> They made sense to me.  But then, I know what you’re talking about.
20160324 03:54:33< mattsc> Maybe somebody farther away from it all should also read them.
20160324 03:55:47< mattsc> Another option would be to include more detail (examples or something) in the other forum post
20160324 03:56:49< celticminstrel> By the way, what do you know about "Experimental Recruitment (C++)"?
20160324 03:56:59< celticminstrel> Available as a Dev AI.
20160324 03:58:14< mattsc> Nothing really.  There are so many different recruitment functions out there, I can never keep them apart.
20160324 03:58:41< mattsc> I think we really should get rid of most of them.
20160324 03:59:06< celticminstrel> I'd like to know how that experimental one compares with the new default recruitment though...
20160324 04:00:58< mattsc> Yeah.
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20160324 04:01:01< irker681> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 077e4f378902 / data/gui/window/lobby_main.cfg: tlobby_main: Further layout tweaks and cleanup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/077e4f3789023a991d063a59cc1859856dae18c5
20160324 04:01:02< irker681> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 8cdc1ab08165 / src/gui/dialogs/lobby/lobby.cpp: tlobby_main: removed obsolete tree view folding toggle hack https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8cdc1ab08165bc36da14627204a7c343da442b3d
20160324 04:01:38< mattsc> It’s not the one being used in the default AI now, right?
20160324 04:01:46< celticminstrel> No, it's not.
20160324 04:02:01< celticminstrel> That's the one I just called the "new default recruitment".
20160324 04:02:04< mattsc> Some of those used to be called testing_something_something too.
20160324 04:02:15< mattsc> ok
20160324 04:02:44< fendrin_> vultraz: no, I have not tried or no, I can't see the issue?
20160324 04:02:58< vultraz> fendrin_: I can't reproduce the issue
20160324 04:03:06< fendrin_> Thank you.
20160324 04:03:08< celticminstrel> There were four different recruitment AIs - the original recruitment stage (and associated candidate action) which I already removed; the Akihara recruitment which wasn't even finished; the new default recruitment; and the experimental recruitment. Now there are two (once I push these commits, that is). I may yet remove the experimental recruitment as well, not sure.
20160324 04:03:31< mattsc> celticminstrel: I can poke around tomorrow a bit to see what I can figure out.
20160324 04:03:47< mattsc> For tonight I must be off though.  TTYL.
20160324 04:03:49< celticminstrel> Sure, if you have the time.
20160324 04:03:52< celticminstrel> Bye.
20160324 04:03:57< mattsc> I’ll see what I can do.
20160324 04:04:00< mattsc> Bye.
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20160324 04:06:04< celticminstrel> vultraz: You might be happy to hear that I have deleted five more source files (and as many headers). And one or two more to go, as well.
20160324 04:06:28< vultraz> cleanup or consolidation?
20160324 04:06:44< celticminstrel> Removing old, deprecated, and broken stuff.
20160324 04:06:57< celticminstrel> I did some cleanup too, but that was only moving files around.
20160324 04:06:58< vultraz> :D
20160324 04:07:11< vultraz> I like hearing about the removal of old, deprecated, and broken stuff
20160324 04:07:30< celticminstrel> I was hoping wedge009 would be around to handle the VC project update, but I haven't seen him.
20160324 04:09:43< irker681> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 5ac2ef62ced8 / src/ai/lua/core.cpp: Use luaW_checklocation instead of custom function in Lua AI core https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5ac2ef62ced806f7b5939944896ae71efc6a236d
20160324 04:09:45< irker681> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 6c525a9d3f70 / / (23 files in 10 dirs): Remove AI interface and fallback stage https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6c525a9d3f7040414ecf9f042f3dfabcd36ff595
20160324 04:09:47< irker681> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master a23a368c2044 / / (10 files in 8 dirs): Remove Akihara's recruitment and battle evaluation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a23a368c20445f71a9c71042a6ce26708dd3c7cd
20160324 04:09:49< irker681> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master d73a2486ba53 / data/ai/dev/ai_old_recruitment.cfg: Deleted AI definition referencing the removed old recruitment CA https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d73a2486ba5388f998eca9b4e94346a01152a0bd
20160324 04:09:51< irker681> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master fbd9edd5dfa8 / / (8 files in 6 dirs): Remove global fallback candidate action https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/fbd9edd5dfa83133d4527e49bc4309e93ee90da4
20160324 04:09:53< irker681> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 17ea7fac6bab / / (81 files in 11 dirs): Reorganize the AI source files a little https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/17ea7fac6bab261d8401e7f9d28e6770a3cd46e6
20160324 04:10:15< celticminstrel> Let's hope Travis builds that...
20160324 04:10:44 * celticminstrel pokes vultraz 
20160324 04:10:53< vultraz> ya?
20160324 04:11:04< celticminstrel> CB project update?
20160324 04:11:18< vultraz> ok
20160324 04:11:51< celticminstrel> Sorry for not attempting to do it myself this time.
20160324 04:12:11< celticminstrel> I did handle the deletions, so you only need to update for the moves.
20160324 04:12:23< celticminstrel> Unless of course I missed something.
20160324 04:14:30< vultraz> blagh
20160324 04:14:32< fendrin_> I like the terrain back that is replaced by mine wall.
20160324 04:14:39< vultraz> this is a bit of a mess
20160324 04:14:51< celticminstrel> Sorry.
20160324 04:17:49< vultraz> fendrin_: ?
20160324 04:18:05< celticminstrel> vultraz: Recently the hewn(?) cave wall was replaced by a mine wall.
20160324 04:18:11< vultraz> I know
20160324 04:18:16< vultraz> is he asking for hewn back?
20160324 04:18:20< celticminstrel> Sounds like it.
20160324 04:18:27< fendrin_> yes
20160324 04:18:30< fendrin_> please
20160324 04:18:33< vultraz> not coming back
20160324 04:18:35< vultraz> sorry
20160324 04:18:36< fendrin_> mine wall is great
20160324 04:18:43< fendrin_> why not?
20160324 04:18:50< celticminstrel> I think zookeeper would be the person to ask.
20160324 04:19:07< fendrin_> the terrain was new
20160324 04:19:18< celticminstrel> Even if it isn't brought back though, how hard is it to copy it into a scenario?
20160324 04:19:46< fendrin_> There is simply a difference.
20160324 04:20:12< fendrin_> Like in my scenario I am not fine with the replacement.
20160324 04:23:19< vultraz> celticminstrel: did you test this
20160324 04:23:26< vultraz> I'm getting a ton of bad include paths
20160324 04:23:47< celticminstrel> If you mean did I test that it compiles, yes, I did. Unfortunately, XCode is far more liberal in its include paths than other IDEs. :(
20160324 04:24:38< celticminstrel> And the AI framework also used a lot of relative includes; I tried to go through and remove as many of those as possible, but perhaps I missed some.
20160324 04:24:50< celticminstrel> (By "remove" I mean "converting them to src-relative".)
20160324 04:27:54< irker681> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 6374f57b370d / src/ai/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fixup ai include paths https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6374f57b370deb633105010ec53e2f9b8c58b2ce
20160324 04:27:57< irker681> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master d3ef442f151d / projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: Update CB project https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d3ef442f151dac4fa61a96950a1475bc197492fa
20160324 04:28:30< celticminstrel> Hmm.
20160324 04:28:55< celticminstrel> Looks good for the most part.
20160324 04:29:00< vultraz> some paths still need to be made non-relative
20160324 04:30:12< celticminstrel> I'll run over it again.
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20160324 04:38:10< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118150560
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20160324 05:12:27< irker681> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 2e772cd32e3d / src/ai/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Minor AI include fixups https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2e772cd32e3d0eafcacf75b477d63e66596412d6
20160324 05:18:43< vultraz> gfgtdf: how would I go about removing the gui1 lobby?
20160324 05:19:17< celticminstrel> Are we sure the GUI2 one is ready? Does it work without a scrollbar in 800x600?
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20160324 05:23:14< vultraz> well what other design improvements would you have me do
20160324 05:24:18< celticminstrel> Not sure. Have you checked how it looks when a game is open? Also, did you fix the whisper crash?
20160324 05:24:31< vultraz> yes gfgtsf fixed that
20160324 05:24:38< celticminstrel> Ah, okay.
20160324 05:27:38< vultraz> the lobby looks better at that resolution than it used to, I think 
20160324 05:28:32< vultraz> I can't do much about it
20160324 05:30:45< vultraz> at least with the new chat area it doesn't look like a mess with multiple scrollbars
20160324 05:30:58< vultraz> cant guarantee the game area won't have them, though...
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20160324 05:32:55< celticminstrel> vultraz: Mind going in and creating a game so I can see what it's like?
20160324 05:33:01< fendrin_> I like to define a dry river terrain. It is supposed to behave against land like water but against water like sand.
20160324 05:33:21< celticminstrel> Just so that something shows up in the list. Of course, I could connect two clients for that...
20160324 05:34:00< vultraz> celticminstrel: ok
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20160324 05:34:42< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9039 (master - d3ef442 : Charles Dang): The build has errored.
20160324 05:34:42< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118153204
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20160324 05:34:42< celticminstrel> Yeah, that looks good.
20160324 05:35:00< celticminstrel> And now I can expand "selected game" and see you.
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20160324 05:35:18< celticminstrel> It shrinks when I click on it. That's not so good.
20160324 05:35:35< celticminstrel> Also, I think the symbols would be better with tooltips.
20160324 05:35:44< vultraz> likely
20160324 05:36:03< vultraz> the shrinking is the last listbox bug I'd like to get fixed
20160324 05:36:07< vultraz> maybe gfgtdf can help
20160324 05:36:09< vultraz> basically
20160324 05:36:11< celticminstrel> I see.
20160324 05:36:30< vultraz> listbox member size gets shrunk to the minimum required width when the layout is invalidated
20160324 05:36:33< celticminstrel> Also looks better in 800x600 now - less of a scrollbar.
20160324 05:38:16< vultraz> network dc
20160324 05:38:16< vultraz> :|
20160324 05:38:16< vultraz> celticminstrel: the problem is the filter row has that textbox which won't shrink any more
20160324 05:38:37< vultraz> anyway, we probably need better icons too..
20160324 05:40:23< celticminstrel> Filtering works well too.
20160324 05:40:38< vultraz> gui2 errors in the console..
20160324 05:41:19< vultraz> celticminstrel: does it say two in lobby for you?
20160324 05:41:21< celticminstrel> What do the colours mean in the player list?
20160324 05:41:24< celticminstrel> Yes.
20160324 05:41:30< vultraz> but the list shows one
20160324 05:41:47< celticminstrel> It shows two for me, but I think I've sometimes experienced what you describe.
20160324 05:42:02< celticminstrel> Entering prefs fixes it.
20160324 05:42:32< vultraz> these icons really need tooltips
20160324 05:42:36< vultraz> and better.... icons
20160324 05:42:50< celticminstrel> I don't really get what the colours mean either, in the player list. They seem quite arbitrary.
20160324 05:43:03< celticminstrel> Does a green game mean it's open to join or something?
20160324 05:43:28< celticminstrel> Seems like it...
20160324 05:43:43< vultraz> yes
20160324 05:43:53< vultraz> yeah I don't understand the colors either
20160324 05:44:05< celticminstrel> There's also little status icons next to the player names.
20160324 05:44:16< vultraz> I'd like to find a way to give tooltips arbitrary content
20160324 05:44:33< vultraz> yes that means registered i think
20160324 05:44:46< fendrin_> What makes the new lobby (no idea if the problem is still there on 1.13.x) unusable for me is the fact that it redraws the list every time something changes and resets the scrollview.
20160324 05:44:48< celticminstrel> Well, I know I'm not refistered.
20160324 05:44:58< celticminstrel> ^registered
20160324 05:45:21< vultraz> fendrin_: hm good point.. yes
20160324 05:45:32< celticminstrel> fendrin_: Sounds similar to the chat issue that was fixed.
20160324 05:45:35< fendrin_> vultraz: Usually a new lobby fails the moment a developer version gets stable.
20160324 05:45:42< vultraz> that's another gui2 listbox bug..
20160324 05:45:44< vultraz> I think
20160324 05:45:56< wedge009> celticminstrel: I'm UTC+1100, so I only just got back from work. I'll have a check shortly and update if necessary. I was also wondering about the user files - I'll check if they're necessary as well.
20160324 05:45:59< fendrin_> Simply because it is never used by more than 5 people during the dev phase.
20160324 05:46:11< celticminstrel> wedge009: Thanks.
20160324 05:46:32< vultraz> if we enabled it for a dev cycle people could test it
20160324 05:46:53< fendrin_> it has been 
20160324 05:47:00< fendrin_> times ago
20160324 05:47:13< celticminstrel> The problem is that we need at least... say, five or six people online in order to see bugs such as the one fendrin_ described.
20160324 05:47:23< fendrin_> still the problem is that you don't have enough mp players using the development version.
20160324 05:47:35< celticminstrel> I still think there should be a border around the whole game list.
20160324 05:47:53< celticminstrel> I don't think there are any MP players using the dev version.
20160324 05:48:11< fendrin_> Mordante said the thing worked ages ago minus scaling problems.
20160324 05:48:28< fendrin_> Yes
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20160324 05:48:40< fendrin_> I have never seen a single game at the mp server.
20160324 05:48:50< fendrin_> Except the ones I used for testing.
20160324 05:50:03< fendrin_> We should introduce tournaments between the developers.
20160324 05:50:12< fendrin_> When we meet at the mp server and do some testing.
20160324 05:50:15< celticminstrel> Note that "five or six people" means "five or six connections", so three people would be sufficient if everyone had two instances.
20160324 05:51:31< celticminstrel> wedge009: If the user files are unnecessary, a pattern for them should be added in .gitignore.
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20160324 06:40:34< vultraz> celmin|sleep: does this look like more of a trash can https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-mR9s8FduLLY01KaURrWC05S2c/view?usp=sharing
20160324 08:16:15< wedge009> celmin|sleep: Already present in gitignore, but I updated it to accommodate XML-based project files from new VC versions. PR #636 is ready for merging.
20160324 08:17:09< wedge009> vultraz: The bin icon is recognisable to me.
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20160324 08:46:14< vultraz> wedge009: it's weird that you never got the gh project invite I sent
20160324 08:46:31< irker681> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:master e2549c1fff5c / / (5 files in 2 dirs): Remove user-specific MSVC files and update gitignore. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e2549c1fff5cdb4a8138dcbee028e2c864aed5da
20160324 08:46:33< irker681> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:master d6bdce6e66fd / projectfiles/VC9/wesnoth.vcproj: Update VC project file to accommodate recent movements in AI files. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d6bdce6e66fd10ba7115d3b9c0d71bb74eabf285
20160324 08:46:34< wedge009> Yes. Still no invitation...
20160324 08:46:35< irker681> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 86bcc931592e / / (6 files in 2 dirs): Merge pull request #636 from Wedge009/vc_update https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/86bcc931592eb229184e5331ef499f464bbfd47e
20160324 08:46:40< wedge009> Thanks.
20160324 08:47:25< vultraz> I just resent the invite
20160324 08:47:37< vultraz> says you'll either get an email or can go to https://github.com/wesnoth to accept
20160324 08:51:19< wedge009> Ah! I got this one. Thanks.
20160324 08:51:42-!- higgins [~higgins@105.ip-167-114-152.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20160324 08:51:51< vultraz> Congrats, you're our 50th member :)
20160324 08:51:59< wedge009> Whee, nice round number.
20160324 08:53:14< vultraz> You have push access now, but feel free to continue to use PRs for any contribution you feel needs review
20160324 08:53:47< wedge009> Ooh, okay. And sure, I'll do that.
20160324 08:54:07< vultraz> Stuff like projectfile updates can go directly in, though :)
20160324 08:58:30< wedge009> Yep, with all the changes happening recently it was getting a bit tedious for PRs with every little update.
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20160324 09:45:19< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118178828
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20160324 10:24:55< Aginor> hi everyone
20160324 10:25:12< Aginor> I've been doing some thinking
20160324 10:26:00< vultraz> about?
20160324 10:26:27< Aginor> if I put forward a survey where you could anonymously fill in your occupational status (IT professional/software dev/happy hobbyist/student/whatevs), would you be happy to fill it out?
20160324 10:26:58< zookeeper> not particularly happy, but sure i guess i would do it :P
20160324 10:27:14< vultraz> sure, but what for
20160324 10:27:23< Aginor> curiosity
20160324 10:27:33< Aginor> I'd be happy to share the results
20160324 10:28:12< Aginor> mainly, we'd learn about the demographics about our contributors
20160324 10:28:30< Aginor> without pointing fingers at any particular person
20160324 10:29:23< vultraz> that seems reasonable 
20160324 10:29:42< Aginor> I might not go through with putting anything together though, I'm not sure it's a good idea
20160324 10:30:15< Aginor> because we don't want someone to judge other people on perceived probability that they may know more/less than them
20160324 10:30:24< Aginor> thus pre-judging ideas
20160324 10:30:55< zookeeper> i guess it might be interesting to see, as long as a lot of people actually fill it
20160324 10:31:15< Aginor> zookeeper: yes, I agree
20160324 10:32:23< Aginor> it'd be bad if individuals could be singled out
20160324 10:32:40< Aginor> which is why I'm not sure it'd be a good idea to go through with it
20160324 10:33:01< zookeeper> well you can just decide whether to share the results after you see how many people respond
20160324 10:33:23< Aginor> I could
20160324 10:33:47< Aginor> it partially falls afoul about lots of things I've learned about ethical consent though :)
20160324 10:34:23< vultraz> I really don't see how
20160324 10:34:29< Aginor> but I guess I could follow up with some generic numbers
20160324 10:35:21< Aginor> even if it's just "only 2 persons responded, thus no further breakdowns will be published"
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20160324 10:36:09< Aginor> I also wonder if the active contribitor set that may respond is too small to make a quantitive survey feasible
20160324 10:36:21< zookeeper> i'd expect it to be
20160324 10:36:50< vultraz> you'd get less than a dozen people
20160324 10:37:01< Aginor> yeah
20160324 10:37:10< zookeeper> well, depends on who you want to sample. all developers/contributors past and present, then yeah it's not going to work. but if you just want to sample the currently active ones, then sure.
20160324 10:37:30< Aginor> I think this falls into the "bad idea with good intentions" category
20160324 10:38:04< Aginor> I think the potential for harm outweighs any possible benefit
20160324 10:39:45< Aginor> sorry to have brought it up :)
20160324 10:41:14< zookeeper> yes, i'm sure we're all dismayed at your impudence
20160324 10:41:27< zookeeper> (s/at/by, i think?)
20160324 10:41:37< vultraz> both work
20160324 10:41:45< Aginor> I'd go with by
20160324 10:42:05< Aginor> but I'm not a native speaker
20160324 10:42:50< vultraz> By is more common, yes
20160324 10:44:06< vultraz> not sure there would be a context to use 'at'
20160324 10:44:23< vultraz> but I don't think it's grammatically incorrect
20160324 10:44:52 * vultraz goes back to attempting to debug why image tooltips are broken
20160324 10:47:05 * Aginor goes to bed
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20160324 13:16:54< irker223> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master ae8df114f65e / data/core/macros/ai.cfg: Fix indenting https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ae8df114f65e2c44e2a265103f328eaa51ba575d
20160324 13:21:03< mattsc> celmin|sleep: the problem with ai.attack() did not exist in 13.2 yet; I’ll do some more tests, but it looks like it’s been introduced recently.
20160324 13:23:54< mattsc> Also, the experimental recruiting algorithm was developed over a few days as a Google Code-In (not GSoC) project.  I also did a few test games and while it works, it only recruited Grunt for Northerners and Skeletons for Undead in the tests I did.
20160324 13:24:10< mattsc> I think it can safely be removed.
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20160324 13:49:13< mattsc> celmin|sleep: bug: if neither eval_parms nor exec_parms is given for an external CA, the ai table is not available
20160324 13:50:10< mattsc> However, once I add that, the double ai.attack() works for external CAs, so it is only a problem for Lua AIs defining an engine
20160324 13:51:06-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.242.7] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20160324 13:55:08< mattsc> celmin|sleep: huh, I take bacl the last statement
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20160324 13:55:39< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9043 (master - ae8df11 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20160324 13:55:39< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118226619
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20160324 13:56:05< mattsc> It works when there are no Lua aspects defined.  This [aspect] tag:
20160324 13:56:07< mattsc> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/ai/scenarios/scenario-no_engine.cfg#L239
20160324 13:56:20< mattsc> is what caused the double ai.attack to fail.
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20160324 14:01:27< mattsc> And if I remove the same from the test scenario using the Lua engine, it works for there too.
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20160324 14:02:14< mattsc> celmin|sleep: that’s a lot of stream-of-consciousness (or rather stream-of-results-as-I-go-along) blathering, so let me summarize:
20160324 14:02:26< mattsc> 1. We should remove the experimental recruitment
20160324 14:02:53< mattsc> 2. Fix bug of external CAs not working when eval/exec_parms= is missing
20160324 14:03:19< mattsc> 3. Fix ai table being reset after attack if Lua aspect is defined.
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20160324 15:17:23< mattsc> celmin|sleep: I fixed, updated and simplified the Lua AI test scenario.
20160324 15:17:52< mattsc> For some reason irker does not show the commits here, but they are in the repository.
20160324 15:18:11< mattsc> You can use those for easy testing of issues 2. and 3.
20160324 15:18:30< mattsc> s/scenario/scenarios
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20160324 15:37:58< mattsc> Ah, that’s the reason why irker was absent …
20160324 15:41:17< fendrin_> zookeeper: Please put the hewn cave wall back on its place. The mine terrain is fine but not as a replacement.
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20160324 15:47:37< celmin|sleep> vultraz: It does look more like a trashcan, but it also still resembles a clipboard.
20160324 15:48:00< celmin|sleep> mattsc: Sorry, which scenarios do I need to use for testing those issues?
20160324 15:48:19< mattsc> -t lua_ai and -t lua_ai_old_syntax
20160324 15:48:56< celmin|sleep> I'm not seeing an aspect definition in either...
20160324 15:49:16< mattsc> No, that’s because I fixed and cleaned them up.
20160324 15:49:24< mattsc> It should be easy to add that though.
20160324 15:49:40< celmin|sleep> So you removed the aspect example and the goal example...
20160324 15:49:51< mattsc> Yes; because it was unused.
20160324 15:49:56< celmin|sleep> Huh?
20160324 15:50:50< mattsc> Not sure what’s unclear about that?
20160324 15:51:04< celmin|sleep> What do you mean, it was unused?
20160324 15:51:37< mattsc> It was not doing anything in the scenario.
20160324 15:51:46< celmin|sleep> I see.
20160324 15:52:02< celmin|sleep> I think it's good to have an example of Lua aspects and goals though...
20160324 15:52:06-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel
20160324 15:52:10< mattsc> I only left barebone scenarios, with the code that was actually needed.
20160324 15:52:20< mattsc> That’s what the wiki is for, IMO.
20160324 15:52:26< celticminstrel> I suppose.
20160324 15:52:33< mattsc> People can then copy it into the scenario.
20160324 15:52:50< mattsc> At least this way the scenario is working and it is easy to see what’s going on.
20160324 15:52:56< mattsc> It was really cluttered up before this.
20160324 15:53:06< mattsc> But feel free to add in any part you think would be useful.
20160324 15:53:51< celticminstrel> I was about to say "Even if it's a separate scenario" when you pointed out the wiki.
20160324 15:54:09< mattsc> Having a separate scenario might not be a bad idea.
20160324 15:54:19< celticminstrel> There is an alternate move-to-targets CA.
20160324 15:54:48< mattsc> I was just about to mention that
20160324 15:54:55< mattsc> I think that could be removed too.
20160324 15:55:18< mattsc> I get the impression that that was used while the new MtT CA was being introduced and tested.
20160324 15:55:20< celticminstrel> That would leave src/ai/testing empty. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
20160324 15:55:36< mattsc> yeah
20160324 15:57:12< celticminstrel> Huh? I thought vultraz updated the CBP but I'm still seeing old filenames here... maybe he's using the other CBP...?
20160324 15:57:23< mattsc> celticminstrel: I think scenario-AI_Arena_small.cfg also needs testing and fixing, but I am not sure whether I am motivated to do that
20160324 15:57:26< vultraz> eh?
20160324 15:57:36< vultraz> I use the default one not the scons one
20160324 15:57:48< celticminstrel> That's what I'm looking at...
20160324 15:57:48< vultraz> no one's touched the scons one in a long time
20160324 15:58:12< vultraz> did you reload the project
20160324 15:58:40< celticminstrel> I'm looking at the XML, not loading it in CodeBlocks.
20160324 15:58:51< celticminstrel> (Though judging by the icon, I do have it installed somewhere.)
20160324 15:59:39< vultraz> maybe i missed something
20160324 16:00:59< celticminstrel> Ah, yeah, looks like that's what it is - you added all the new paths but didn't remove all the old paths.
20160324 16:02:20-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F191CD255E38759E6418F6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 16:05:21< celticminstrel> Which test is failing on Travis, again...
20160324 16:05:41< vultraz> but I did remove the old paths
20160324 16:05:44< vultraz> what old paths did I miss
20160324 16:06:01< celticminstrel> Three headers in testing/ which I've now deleted.
20160324 16:06:04-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20160324 16:07:14< vultraz> ok
20160324 16:07:22< vultraz> I'm doing some formatting to the lobby chat log
20160324 16:07:25-!- boucman_work [~boucman@247.37.0.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20160324 16:09:11< celticminstrel> Hmm.
20160324 16:10:11< vultraz> oh, and different trash icon by jetrel http://jetrel.wesnoth.org/Wesnoth/trashcan.png
20160324 16:10:16< celticminstrel> mattsc: I may have misunderstood which is the spare move_to_targets CA. Is it simple_move_and_targeting_phase that you were proposing to remove?
20160324 16:10:46< celticminstrel> vultraz: Looks a lot better, no longer resembles a clipboard.
20160324 16:11:04< vultraz> thought so
20160324 16:11:15< vultraz> i cannot unsee the fact that the lid looks like a mini car :|
20160324 16:11:57< mattsc> celticminstrel: I really was just talking about the test scenario in data/ai/scenarios
20160324 16:12:05< mattsc> I’ll leave the engine matters to you
20160324 16:12:18< celticminstrel> Huh?
20160324 16:12:40< celticminstrel> Oh, the move-to-targets test.
20160324 16:12:47< mattsc> yes
20160324 16:13:09-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 16:14:13< mattsc> I thought that’s what you were talking about, since we had just discussed test scenarios.  But I now see that you said “CA”.  My bad.
20160324 16:14:13< mattsc> But the CA old MtT CA can probably be removed too, whatever it is called in the engine.
20160324 16:14:36< celticminstrel> Judging by the fact that it's defined in ca.cpp, I think it's probably the older one.
20160324 16:15:01< celticminstrel> It looks like it only targets the first enemy leader...
20160324 16:15:41< celticminstrel> Okay, removing it then.
20160324 16:15:48< celticminstrel> I'll leave the test scenario up to you.
20160324 16:15:54< mattsc> ok
20160324 16:39:31-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 16:41:50< irker223> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master d7205d4a40bf / projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: Minor CB project fixup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d7205d4a40bfb064ed519af21be138ca9ea72438
20160324 16:41:52< irker223> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master ab443bcc1845 / / (9 files in 7 dirs): Remove experimental recruitment https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ab443bcc1845e642f5355821e309d8727a3d1f17
20160324 16:41:54< irker223> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master af9be371dade / / (13 files in 8 dirs): Remove old move-to-targets CA and move new one to default https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/af9be371dade99036969d18189cd303b7a2cd8b2
20160324 16:41:56< irker223> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 57e41387a8fc / / (9 files in 7 dirs): Remove Strategy Formulation with RCA stage https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/57e41387a8fcefe24900ab14ad03a5dc48c1c444
20160324 16:41:58< irker223> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master cfcc1aa6ab32 / RELEASE_NOTES changelog: Update RELEASE_NOTES and changelog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cfcc1aa6ab324c8faa92b3825cb21b541d2ce0e0
20160324 16:42:13< celticminstrel> I left the empty testing/ dir in the XCode/VC projects on purpose.
20160324 16:42:58< celticminstrel> mattsc: As before, any comments on the release notes and changelog would be welcome.
20160324 16:47:16< celticminstrel> I suppose my next step is updating the wiki...
20160324 16:47:31< celticminstrel> Plus the two bugs and investigating the FAI issue...
20160324 16:48:06-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-226-80-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 16:48:07< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9046 (master - be50534 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20160324 16:48:07< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118256616
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20160324 16:48:35< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9045 (master - 961d134 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20160324 16:48:35< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118254028
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20160324 16:48:49< celticminstrel> Oh right, I need to fix a unit test too.
20160324 16:52:08-!- horrowind [~Icedove@2a02:810a:83c0:1c18:21b:fcff:fee3:c3ff] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 16:54:26< mattsc> celticminstrel: I like gallback CA !  (in the changelog)
20160324 16:54:34< celticminstrel> <_<
20160324 16:55:01< mattsc> Also, “most of these were broken or non-functional” is not true; of the 4 listed below, that applies to only one of them
20160324 16:55:21< mattsc> Other than that, the changelog looks good and I like what you have done with the release notes
20160324 16:55:56< celticminstrel> The global fallback CA worked?
20160324 16:57:18-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20160324 16:57:31< mattsc> Oh, CA.  Grrr, I am not good at reading today, apparently.  (It registered as “stage” in my brain)
20160324 16:57:31< mattsc> but that’s still not most of them.  ;)
20160324 16:57:31< mattsc> You can leave it though, that’s fine.
20160324 16:57:51< celticminstrel> Ah. That reminds me though, I should mention the fallback stage.
20160324 16:58:43< irker223> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 4cdab9310925 / changelog: Update changelog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4cdab93109257b6e77cb5b1789646ef813603b46
20160324 17:00:07< irker223> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 106f1510d399 / data/test/scenarios/ai/modify/aspects.cfg: Fix unit test https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/106f1510d3993c3ee11f1b9e9665ea38e8b943cb
20160324 17:04:45< mattsc> celticminstrel: I still think that we should say something like: A major AI code cleanup effort was undertaken, including the reorganization of new code and removal of non-functional, outdated or deprecated code.  Unfortunately, it means that some old AIs or AI configuration will require updating, but this was necessary to facilitate future AI code maintenance and development. See [forum link] for more information.
20160324 17:04:45< mattsc> Up front in the RN, I mean.
20160324 17:05:00< mattsc> (and that is not meant as the literal text, so please rephrase as needed)
20160324 17:05:50< mattsc> (if you agree that this should be added, that is)
20160324 17:07:21< celticminstrel> Sounds good to me, but I'm not quite sure where in the RN to put it. Perhaps you could add it?
20160324 17:10:36< celticminstrel> Hmm... thinking about the aspect/attack issue, I wonder if it's related to the reference-counting of the AI table...
20160324 17:10:54< irker223> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 496b46530f8e / src/gui/dialogs/lobby/lobby.cpp: tlobby_main: removed chat speaker brackets, replaced with colon https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/496b46530f8e20cf225791b89c99dcc823ddf22c
20160324 17:10:57< irker223> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 4c32c9f8d8ad / src/game_preferences.cpp: Some formatting to chat timestamps https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4c32c9f8d8ad3a2cb2fbbac56543a74bfbf57e59
20160324 17:11:00< irker223> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 98cb8a518dee / src/gui/dialogs/lobby/lobby.cpp: tlobby_main: some formatting to chat text https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/98cb8a518dee58cbc2e7fc349d680bc9ac4f2844
20160324 17:11:03< vultraz> celticminstrel: ^ tell me what you think
20160324 17:11:23< celticminstrel> Slightlt disappointed to see the brackets go. Beyond that, lemme compile, connect, and see.
20160324 17:11:33< celticminstrel> ^slightly
20160324 17:14:08< vultraz> The brackets just seemed very old fashioned 
20160324 17:14:24< celticminstrel> I disagree, but I'm not opposed to the change either.
20160324 17:14:36< celticminstrel> Well... as long as it applies in-game as well.
20160324 17:14:40-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054141235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 17:15:19< celticminstrel> Okay, so the aspect causing the issue was aggression, one that's used by the attack routines.
20160324 17:17:12< vultraz> I've really been pondering how to make fancier tooltips
20160324 17:17:28< celticminstrel> Why?
20160324 17:17:37< mattsc> celticminstrel: okay, will do
20160324 17:17:38< vultraz> say we want images in the tooltips?
20160324 17:17:51< celticminstrel> Why would we want that?
20160324 17:17:52< vultraz> or columns?
20160324 17:17:59< celticminstrel> Or that?
20160324 17:18:30< vultraz> depends
20160324 17:18:53< vultraz> say I wanted to be able to mouse over a game in the lobby and see the players in it or something
20160324 17:19:13< vultraz> this really all comes down to gui2 paradigms
20160324 17:19:20< celticminstrel> Why does that need images or columns?
20160324 17:19:29< vultraz> to look fancy?
20160324 17:19:33< celticminstrel> :|
20160324 17:25:13-!- monkey_ [026855cc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.104.85.204] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 17:27:10< vultraz> gfgtdf: do you know if it's possible with the current listbox implementation to fix the issue where the rows will shrink to minimum size when window layout is invalidated?
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20160324 17:40:26< celticminstrel> The end turn button looks different in a test scenario than in MP...
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20160324 17:40:53< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9047 (master - cfcc1aa : Celtic Minstrel): The build has errored.
20160324 17:40:53< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118279557
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20160324 17:42:51< celticminstrel> Oh! I think I figured out the problem with attack() function.
20160324 17:43:06< celticminstrel> When you call ai.attack(), it fetches the value of the aggression aspect.
20160324 17:43:38< celticminstrel> If this value comes from Lua, the ai table is set to read-only.
20160324 17:43:47< celticminstrel> Thus, the attack function becomes unavailable thereafter.
20160324 17:44:07< mattsc> celticminstrel: ah, yes, that makes sense
20160324 17:44:53< mattsc> celticminstrel: I am confused though about something else though.  data/ai/scenarios/scenario-test_move_to_targets.cfg just seems to test the default AI, or am I missing something?
20160324 17:45:31< celticminstrel> I was wondering about that too. Perhaps the point is that the default AI sets a number of targets implicitly, and it's supposed to test that those work properly?
20160324 17:45:43< celticminstrel> Still weird that there's no [goal] tags though.
20160324 17:47:40< vultraz> weird bug with scrollbar buttons
20160324 17:47:48< vultraz> though anyway I'm going to add the minimal scrollbars 
20160324 17:48:05< celticminstrel> Please do not remove the scrollbar arrows.
20160324 17:48:14< celticminstrel> Or at least, make it an option in preferences.
20160324 17:48:35< vultraz> I'm only adding them for the lobby
20160324 17:48:35< mattsc> celticminstrel: looking at its history, it looks to me that it was set up when Crab introduced the composite AI.
20160324 17:48:45< vultraz> all these scrollbars are taking up space
20160324 17:48:51< mattsc> Probably just so that he had an easy way to test that everything was working as desired.
20160324 17:48:58< celticminstrel> vultraz: My complaint still applies.
20160324 17:48:58< mattsc> So I think this can safely be removed also.
20160324 17:49:04< celticminstrel> mattsc: Alright.
20160324 17:55:16-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20160324 17:56:55< irker223> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master dd2d193cbd52 / data/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove move_to_targets test scenario https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/dd2d193cbd520c4340f738dcde6b0e3cbb137f52
20160324 18:00:11< celticminstrel> I feel like my AI setup would break if someone tried to access the AI of another side. But that's probably not a problem, since you're not supposed to do that...
20160324 18:00:31< mattsc> define ‘break'
20160324 18:01:22< mattsc> It shouldn’t be possible to do so.  So as long as breaking involves some serious error message or non-functioning, that’s ok
20160324 18:01:33< mattsc> If it’s a subtle, silent failure that would be a problem.
20160324 18:02:08< celticminstrel> Well, side 1's AI called wesnoth.debug_ai(2).ai.attack(), there could be a possibility of side 1's ai table being replaced with aide 2's ai table for the duration of that turn.
20160324 18:02:17< celticminstrel> (At most that turn, possibly less.)
20160324 18:03:06< celticminstrel> I forgot an "if" right near the start of the sentence.
20160324 18:03:57< mattsc> That’s for debug mode only though?
20160324 18:03:57< mattsc> I unconsciously added that “if” in when parsing the sentence
20160324 18:03:57< mattsc> subconsciously?
20160324 18:04:36< celticminstrel> Yes, it does only work in debug mode.
20160324 18:04:46< celticminstrel> Does nothing otherwise and returns nil.
20160324 18:04:49< mattsc> That’s fine then, in my opinion
20160324 18:05:21< mattsc> celticminstrel: are you done with the major AI refactoring/clean-up of the C++ code?  Other than bug fixes and such?
20160324 18:05:40< celticminstrel> I think I'm done with removing things, yeah.
20160324 18:05:40< mattsc> And are you planning to do any changes in /data/ai ?
20160324 18:06:16< celticminstrel> I've been considering splitting up a few of the C++ files, but not sure if I'll bother.
20160324 18:06:48< mattsc> In other words, I can get going with cleanup of data/ai?
20160324 18:07:09< mattsc> The things I’ve done so far were those that shouldn’t have interfered with anything you were doing.
20160324 18:07:16< celticminstrel> You can. Don't remove any FormulaAI stuff though, as that's still supported for now.
20160324 18:07:18< mattsc> Or direct results of what you have been doing.
20160324 18:07:31< celticminstrel> (Unless it's clearly broken.)
20160324 18:07:41< mattsc> My suggestion was going to be to keep all the stuff in fai/ as examples.
20160324 18:07:51< mattsc> Looks like we agree
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20160324 18:08:08< celticminstrel> A few of those are used by things, too, I think.
20160324 18:08:36< mattsc> And IIRC, everything left in lua/ is used somewhere, but I’ll confirm that again
20160324 18:08:49< celticminstrel> Did you already remove some things from lua/?
20160324 18:09:09< mattsc> Not recently, I think.
20160324 18:09:39< celticminstrel> When I looked at the general MicroAI code awhile ago I recall thinking it could use some cleanup.
20160324 18:10:09< mattsc> I’m sure that’s true.
20160324 18:10:33< celticminstrel> I might look into that eventually, but I'll wait for you to do your thing first.
20160324 18:14:41< celticminstrel> mattsc: Looking at the Lua code, I think what you said about the situation when {exec,eval}_parms isn't defined is expected.
20160324 18:15:04< mattsc> celticminstrel: just checked again, I would put a deprecation message into ai/lua/patrol.lus (use MAI instead), other than that ai/lua is fine as far as I am concerned
20160324 18:15:30< mattsc> Okay; so are they listed as required parameters?
20160324 18:15:49< mattsc> Btw, if you are talking about ai_helper and battle_calcs, yes, those are a mess.
20160324 18:15:52< celticminstrel> They aren't required, no.
20160324 18:15:56< celticminstrel> However...
20160324 18:16:43< celticminstrel> If they are present, then the CA is called as execution(engine, ai, cfg, {data=data}).
20160324 18:17:08< celticminstrel> If they are not present, then the CA is called as execution({data=data}, data, cfg)
20160324 18:17:16< celticminstrel> Or something l ike that, at least.
20160324 18:17:20< mattsc> I’ve been waiting for more progress with my own AIs to clean these up (they are used there too), but that’s only the reason why I haven’t bothered.  That doesn’t mean that you shouldn't.
20160324 18:17:48< celticminstrel> The lua_ai test scenario appears to work if I remove the ai argument from the Lua functions.
20160324 18:17:49< mattsc> Oh, right.  So in that case I don’t pass the ai table to them.
20160324 18:17:56-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160324 18:17:56< mattsc> Okayt, that’s fixed easily.
20160324 18:18:02< celticminstrel> Shall I push it?
20160324 18:18:06< mattsc> please
20160324 18:18:52< mattsc> So, what I am trying to say with this is: I am not going to do any clean-up in data/ai/lua (except for the deprecation message)
20160324 18:18:59< celticminstrel> Okay.
20160324 18:19:15< celticminstrel> I assume the patrol MAI has a separate implementation of that.
20160324 18:19:47< mattsc> and I am not going to do anything about the MAIs for the time being  (except that I want to switch to [args] at some point, but I am happy to leave that to you)
20160324 18:19:47< mattsc> yes
20160324 18:19:59< celticminstrel> Okay.
20160324 18:20:04< mattsc> So, if you want to work on any of the Lua AIs, incl. the MAIs, no need to wait for me.
20160324 18:20:31< celticminstrel> Right now I'm going to look into the FAI lurkers.
20160324 18:20:36< mattsc> Mostly what I want to do is get rid of a couple more of the dev AIs, and demote and rename the “strong AI"
20160324 18:20:57< mattsc> Oh, cool.  (Right, that was on my list too, but not immediately)
20160324 18:21:19< celticminstrel> There are only three dev AIs left, and I assume you're not going to remove the idle AI.
20160324 18:21:35< celticminstrel> Both of the others are formula AIs.
20160324 18:21:48< mattsc> Right (although I personally don’t see a need to keep it)
20160324 18:22:12< mattsc> And, for complteness, I guess I should test and clean up the AI Arena too.
20160324 18:23:16< celticminstrel> Hmm, for the idle AI...
20160324 18:23:32< celticminstrel> Wasn't there a dedicated stage or something...
20160324 18:24:31< celticminstrel> Hmm, there is a dedicated stage, which is not implemented.
20160324 18:25:33-!- atarocch [~atarocch@37.118.206.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20160324 18:25:43< celticminstrel> And not registered.
20160324 18:26:12< celticminstrel> I have two choices - remove it, or implement and register it. In the latter case I'd probably make it clear the attacks and movement of all units, or something.
20160324 18:26:17< mattsc> Do you think those two FAI dev AIs should be kept?  I don’t really see the point.
20160324 18:26:43< celticminstrel> I don't really know. Depends how well they work compared to other options.
20160324 18:27:41< celticminstrel> If the FAI recruitment is clearly worse than the new default recruitment, we don't really need to keep it. Similarly, if the FAI poisoning is worse than the one used in the experimental AI, we probably don't need to keep it. (But keep in mind that it's referenced in data/ai/macros too.)
20160324 18:27:46< mattsc> I thnk the changes are so small, that it’s not really worth keeping them.  But not sure, maybe we keep one just as an example.  Or turn it into a test scenario.
20160324 18:27:51< mattsc> Too difficult to think about right now.
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20160324 18:28:28< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9048 (master - 4cdab93 : Celtic Minstrel): The build has errored.
20160324 18:28:28< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118284021
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20160324 18:30:55< mattsc> Yeah, I know.  There’s no way the FAI poisoning is better than the one in the Experimental AI.
20160324 18:31:00< mattsc> I’m already planning to have a look over the AI macros as well.
20160324 18:31:19< celticminstrel> Why is there no way?
20160324 18:31:28< mattsc> Have you looked at the code?
20160324 18:31:38< celticminstrel> I haven't, no.
20160324 18:32:01< mattsc> It’s: if units has the poison special, use it!
20160324 18:32:43< mattsc> I don’t remember the details of the ExpAI poisoning CA, but it’s “somewhat” more sophisticated than that.
20160324 18:33:18< celticminstrel> It avoids units on villages or next to healers.
20160324 18:33:21< mattsc> As a general question though, should we keep an example of how to set up an FAI CA around, whether it’s a useful AI or not.
20160324 18:33:38< celticminstrel> Unless it's a leader.
20160324 18:34:06< celticminstrel> Also seems to avoid healers themselves? Not quite sure if I'm reading this right.
20160324 18:34:47< celticminstrel> Oh, it also avoids undead.
20160324 18:34:53< celticminstrel> And poisoned units.
20160324 18:35:02< celticminstrel> The code is actually in three separate places.
20160324 18:35:30< mattsc> Right, I misread something, actually.
20160324 18:35:30< mattsc> Trying to multitask again.
20160324 18:37:28< celticminstrel> FormulaAI candidate actions have three stages instead of two - filter, evaluation, and execution...
20160324 18:37:48< celticminstrel> I think this also makes them more limited than Lua ones, though...
20160324 18:38:33< mattsc> Meh, let’s just keep those two FAI dev AIs.  I’ll just confirm that they work.
20160324 18:39:01< celticminstrel> Yeah, if they don't work there's no point in keeping them.
20160324 18:40:19< celticminstrel> I'm kind of amazed that someone implemented lurkers in WML.
20160324 18:40:58< mattsc> Why?
20160324 18:41:01< fendrin_> lurkers?
20160324 18:41:05< mattsc> I can also tell you who that someone was.
20160324 18:41:25< celticminstrel> Because WML doesn't really seem like a good choice for implementing AI stuff.
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20160324 18:41:33< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9049 (master - 106f151 : Celtic Minstrel): The build has errored.
20160324 18:41:33< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118284324
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20160324 18:41:45< mattsc> I intentionally wrote them in FAI, Lua AI and WML, just as a deonstration that it can be done (and which one is easier or harder)
20160324 18:42:00< celticminstrel> Ah.
20160324 18:42:21< celticminstrel> Yay, the build finally works again! \o/
20160324 18:42:30< mattsc> fendrin_: lurkers:  https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs#Lurkers_Micro_AI_.28ai_type.3Dlurkers.29
20160324 18:44:12< celticminstrel> So it would be good for elvish rangers. :D
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20160324 18:45:12< celticminstrel> The FormulaAI lurkers will clearly never attack, since they have a stage with only a movement CA.
20160324 18:45:24< celticminstrel> I guess that's all that's needed to demonstrate it, though...
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20160324 18:48:11< mattsc> celticminstrel: the attacks are left to the default AI
20160324 18:48:34< mattsc> so they will all move first, and then attack
20160324 18:48:44< celticminstrel> For the WML version, yeah.
20160324 18:48:55< mattsc> celticminstrel: btw, I think I lied.
20160324 18:49:12< celticminstrel> Eh?
20160324 18:49:23< mattsc> I wrote the WML lurkers first for one of my campaigns (it has a unit type called Swamp Lurker).
20160324 18:49:36< mattsc> That’s before I knew anything about AIs.
20160324 18:49:48< mattsc> Then I wrote it in FAI, and then in Lua AI.
20160324 18:49:57< mattsc> That’s how I got started with AI work.
20160324 18:50:13< celticminstrel> The FormulaAI lurkers will never attack, because they don't have a default main_loop stage, and they don't have an attack CA.
20160324 18:50:26< mattsc> Anyway, I do know that the FAI lurkers used to attack.
20160324 18:50:35< celticminstrel> It looks like they don't move either, though, which is a problem...
20160324 18:52:15< celticminstrel> I think I see a bug in the filter.
20160324 18:55:10< celticminstrel> If they used to attack, then perhaps the default AI was being injected? I dunno.
20160324 18:55:59< mattsc> celticminstrel: yes, that’s my guess too.  I am jin the process of figuring out where that got lost.
20160324 18:55:59< mattsc> But I think I don’t care enough.
20160324 18:56:18< celticminstrel> Did you say it didn't work in 1.12 either, or was that something else?
20160324 18:56:34< mattsc> yes
20160324 18:56:45< mattsc> but I have no memory of when I tested it for real the last time
20160324 18:57:04< celticminstrel> If it worked in 1.12 I'd say it's my fault that that got lost, since I did change that with the AI refactor.
20160324 18:57:23< mattsc> It’s not your fault, I am convinced of that.
20160324 18:58:32< celticminstrel> Oh, it looks like lurker_moves.fai possibly handles the attacks too.
20160324 18:59:10< mattsc> yes, it does; I just found that too
20160324 18:59:28< celticminstrel> I'll try using the formula debugger on this.
20160324 18:59:33-!- atarocch [~atarocch@109.115.128.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20160324 18:59:36< celticminstrel> And hope it doesn't hang.
20160324 19:00:36< celticminstrel> First on the filter, then on the CA.
20160324 19:02:18< celticminstrel> Well, the filter is definitely called.
20160324 19:02:45< mattsc> celticminstrel: I just tested with 1.11.5, and there the FAI lurkers definitely both move and attack
20160324 19:10:37< mattsc> Still works in 1.11.8, but not in 1.11.13.  Just doing spot checks though, no real bisecting
20160324 19:12:54< mattsc> And both the scenario files and the lurker engines are identical between those two versions, so it looks like something got broken on the Wesnoth side, not in the AI itself.
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20160324 19:17:12< mattsc> or maybe not … ?
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20160324 19:17:48< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118287192
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20160324 19:18:43< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
20160324 19:19:16< celticminstrel> Hi.
20160324 19:19:42< mattsc> Hi Elvish_Hunter 
20160324 19:20:44< Elvish_Hunter> For anyone interested, I'm preparing the patch for wmllint that takes case of the small portraits removal
20160324 19:24:27< celticminstrel> Huh, the filter seems to work even if it uses input.type instead of self.type.
20160324 19:26:31< Elvish_Hunter> Long short story, I had to list every portrait that changed path in the rule :/
20160324 19:27:16< celticminstrel> Every one? Not just, eg, each directory containing such portraits? :/
20160324 19:27:20-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20160324 19:27:39< Elvish_Hunter> No. Too many collision risks :|
20160324 19:29:30< celticminstrel> :/
20160324 19:29:44< Elvish_Hunter> Not to mention that maybe a UMC author wants to keep the portraits in a /transparent/ directory, and we'll end up ruining the add-on.
20160324 19:30:12< celticminstrel> Ah, I see, collisions where an add-on author used the same directory structure could be a problem.
20160324 19:30:16< Elvish_Hunter> At least, generating the file list wasn't that hard, thanks to ls and sed :P
20160324 19:30:22< celticminstrel> Heh, okay.
20160324 19:31:02-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.242.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20160324 19:31:47< celticminstrel> vultraz: Please let me know if you figure out that chat bug, because I think it's now affecting the formula debugger too.
20160324 19:32:08< Elvish_Hunter> For the same reason, I had to exclude the portraits from Dead Water from the rule.
20160324 19:32:38< celticminstrel> Sorry, what reason?
20160324 19:32:52< Elvish_Hunter> Collisions with UMC content.
20160324 19:33:18< celticminstrel> I don't really understand, but okay. UMC isn't suppose to reference stuff outside of core, I think.
20160324 19:33:52< celticminstrel> Hmm... I should add to_abbreviated_debug_string()...
20160324 19:34:27< mattsc> celticminstrel: is it still possible to define a global ai table?  (which contains the AI execution commands, I mean)
20160324 19:34:38< irker223> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 15777e35e08c / data/tools/wmllint: wmllint: added rule to handle removal of small portraits https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/15777e35e08cde90fe724c5a48d0c62ae03e7dbd
20160324 19:34:40< irker223> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master dcee0e1805cf / data/tools/wmllint: wmllint: added male_message and female_message to translatable keys https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/dcee0e1805cfadb298627de087791077972a04a1
20160324 19:34:42< irker223> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 56b8ed956004 / data/campaigns/ (3 files in 3 dirs): DW and UtBS: shut a few wmllint warnings about translation markers https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/56b8ed9560042e2ba20f0c7da627504c215c1a61
20160324 19:34:44< irker223> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 2cd4298f7b3a / data/ (38 files in 17 dirs): wmllint run on core, campaigns and multiplayer directories https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2cd4298f7b3a48dc5f2d541e4e95e995517a47e9
20160324 19:34:52< celticminstrel> mattsc: Huh?
20160324 19:35:42< mattsc> ?
20160324 19:35:42< mattsc> Is it still possible to define the AI table as a global variable?
20160324 19:36:00< celticminstrel> Elvish_Hunter: Shouldn't female_text be added to translatable keys too?
20160324 19:36:06< celticminstrel> mattsc: Example?
20160324 19:36:25< celticminstrel> Elvish_Hunter: Or is there some reason that can't be done?
20160324 19:36:27< mattsc> Hmm, no, I guess it does not have to be gloabl.
20160324 19:36:28< mattsc> It could just be in the engine.  For lua/patrol.lua to work, I mean
20160324 19:37:00< mattsc> celticminstrel: the function in that file uses the ai table, without it being passed as an argument
20160324 19:37:23< mattsc> I am wondering whether it is worth keeping that file around and adding a deprecation message, or whether we should just get rid of it.
20160324 19:37:40< celticminstrel> That should work without changes, since the engine itself sets the table as a global.
20160324 19:38:09< mattsc> yes
20160324 19:38:09< celticminstrel> As long as the patrol_gen function is only called from AI places, of course, not from [lua] tags.
20160324 19:38:17< Elvish_Hunter> celticminstrel: yes, it can. Thanks for pointing that out.
20160324 19:38:52< mattsc> right
20160324 19:38:52< mattsc> celticminstrel: but that doesn’t answer my question
20160324 19:38:52< mattsc> it’s only supplementary information
20160324 19:39:01< celticminstrel> Oh huh, vultraz missed some portraits used in unexpected places.
20160324 19:39:02< mattsc> Note that I did not specifcially ask you the question.
20160324 19:39:20< celticminstrel> mattsc: I'm still not quite sure what you're asking then...
20160324 19:39:47< mattsc> Whether I should delete patrol.lua or deprecate it.
20160324 19:39:51< celticminstrel> Oh.
20160324 19:40:07< mattsc> It’s not used in mainline anywhere
20160324 19:40:16< celticminstrel> I think that should probably depend more on whether anyone uses it... maybe ask shadowm to grep the addons server?
20160324 19:41:14< mattsc> celticminstrel: I’m not sure whether that’s worth it.  We did not do that for other things either.
20160324 19:41:39-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 19:42:17< mattsc> I think I’ll just keep it.
20160324 19:42:37< mattsc> There’s nothing really wrong with it, and it’s not like that directory is full of other examples.
20160324 19:43:49< irker223> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 2c5763216bd5 / data/ (3 files in 3 dirs): wmllint: added female_text to the translatable keys https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2c5763216bd5fca6039ba021a1382c30cdca7688
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20160324 19:57:41< irker223> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master c04f406bd809 / data/ai/lua/patrol.lua: Old patrol.lua: fix indenting and add deprecation message https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c04f406bd809b3c5e05acf1807aa9c9ecb625a44
20160324 19:57:43< irker223> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master a218e6b65949 / data/ai/ (ais/ai_default_rca_strong.cfg dev/ai_default_rca_alternate_recruiting.cfg): Move "Strong AI" to ai/dev/ and rename file https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a218e6b65949c51d6895885a0ac03183c4d7a4ca
20160324 19:57:45< irker223> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master cccf1f860418 / data/ai/dev/ai_default_rca_alternate_recruiting.cfg: Change id and description of the former "Strong AI" https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cccf1f860418fd76b0ba81b233d51acc815a38c0
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20160324 20:42:30< celticminstrel> mattsc: The FAI lurkers are broken because the ID of the swamp water terrain changed, so it thought there were no valid locations to move to.
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20160324 20:51:10< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118322584
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20160324 21:03:39-!- Nosaj is now known as KinkyCode
20160324 21:04:14< KinkyCode> Hello.
20160324 21:05:11< celticminstrel> I wonder what [linked_group] is for. It would be kind of hilarious if it's the same thing vultraz implemented, though I'd be dubious about that going in the WML definition...
20160324 21:05:18< celticminstrel> KinkyCode: Hi.
20160324 21:08:30< celticminstrel> Hmm. Are data/schema.cfg and data/schema-gui.cfg unused?
20160324 21:10:34-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 21:11:26< mattsc> celticminstrel: ugh; but nice detective work figuring that out and at least that’s easy to fix
20160324 21:11:33< vultraz> celticminstrel: linked_group makes widgets in the group be the same size
20160324 21:11:43< mattsc> Have you done so already?
20160324 21:12:09< Elvish_Hunter> celticminstrel: no. At least schema.cfg is used by wmlvalidator
20160324 21:12:59< celticminstrel> I have.
20160324 21:13:33< mattsc> Cool.  And I assume you’ll backport it too?
20160324 21:13:47< mattsc> I’m just asking to see if I can take the topic off my list.
20160324 21:14:25< celticminstrel> Elvish_Hunter: It appears that the automatic GUI schema validation uses data/gui/schema.cfg instead, which is in a different format; hence my question.
20160324 21:14:32< vultraz> celticminstrel: say you have a listbox with two columns, both labels. the widths won't line up, since the labels are different sizes. But if you have a linked group with fixed_width = true and put the labels of column one in that linked group, all the label columns will be the same width regardless ofl ength
20160324 21:14:40< vultraz> (so basically the length of the longest label_
20160324 21:14:41< celticminstrel> mattsc: I hadn't planned to backport it, but I suppose I could.
20160324 21:15:10< celticminstrel> vultraz: Ah, I see, kind of.
20160324 21:15:34< mattsc> celticminstrel: since it’s so simle, no reason not to, right?
20160324 21:15:40< celticminstrel> I guess, yeah.
20160324 21:15:56< vultraz> it's a very important feature of GUI2
20160324 21:17:00< KinkyCode> Q: So, I am a novice programmer, I was advised that the best way to learn is to pick a open source project I would enjoy working on, and work on it and collaborate, would this be a bad project for me?
20160324 21:17:23< celticminstrel> What language(s) have you learned?
20160324 21:17:26< KinkyCode> I am mainly a c++ guy, but I have worked with plenty of python as well.
20160324 21:17:40< celticminstrel> Both of those are used here; C++ for the game, Python for auxiliary tools.
20160324 21:17:49< KinkyCode> Awesome.
20160324 21:18:01-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 21:18:03< vultraz> KinkyCode: it depends. you'll receive a lot of help and support, but the codebase is not the most friendly to new programmers
20160324 21:18:07< KinkyCode> What about toolchain? I am actually brand new to linux, so before this, all my dev was on vis studio.
20160324 21:18:16< mattsc> celticminstrel: btw, looking over my notes, I saw that you also wanted to fix the second occurence of ai.get_avoid() in the MAIs.
20160324 21:18:23< celticminstrel> There's a VC9 project available for Wesnoth.
20160324 21:18:26< vultraz> KinkyCode: VS is used by several devs
20160324 21:18:51< celticminstrel> mattsc: I think I possibly did that already, in the last commit on the actual AI refactor.
20160324 21:18:51< KinkyCode> I was going to give netbeans a shot, what should my first steps be, (I am on linux mint)
20160324 21:18:51< vultraz> (note to self: ask someone to update our shipped VC project to 2013 once we move to c++11)
20160324 21:19:25< celticminstrel> I could probably do that actually, since I have VC12 myself.
20160324 21:19:39< vultraz> KinkyCode: a good place to start is to read this: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911
20160324 21:19:41< celticminstrel> It should be done by someone using VC12, certainly.
20160324 21:19:58< celticminstrel> vultraz: Does that also link to the EasyCoding page or should I link that now?
20160324 21:20:07< vultraz> IIRC it does
20160324 21:20:12< vultraz> yes it does
20160324 21:20:24< celticminstrel> KinkyCode: Basically, you can continue using Visual Studio if you want to. If you want to try NetBeans you'll need to create a project yourself.
20160324 21:20:53< celticminstrel> If you're on Linux, you could try CodeBlocks - there's a project file for that in the Wesnoth repo.
20160324 21:21:11< celticminstrel> I haven't found it to be very good, mind you.
20160324 21:21:23< celticminstrel> But it does save you the trouble of creating a project from scratch.
20160324 21:21:47< celticminstrel> ...that said, if NetBeans can create a project using an external tool, you could probably point it to the scons files, or the CMake files.
20160324 21:22:04< mattsc> celticminstrel: doesn’t look like you have done it already
20160324 21:22:05< KinkyCode> I will try netbeans, and if I run into probs setting up, I will come back. But I think I can get things working. Gotta try to learn haha. Thanks for the link, I will get reading now.
20160324 21:22:38< celticminstrel> mattsc: Sorry, which haven't I done?
20160324 21:22:59< mattsc> ficing get_avoid() usuage for the second MAI
20160324 21:23:03< mattsc> *fixing
20160324 21:23:30< celticminstrel> Oh.
20160324 21:23:44 * celticminstrel goes to check.
20160324 21:25:03< celticminstrel> mattsc: It's not covered by this? https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2ed5e7815f8f45981c923a18c5644120b9c17007
20160324 21:26:49< mattsc> celticminstrel: sigh, maybe I should get some sleep; and I should definitely shut up.  Yes, it is, sorry.
20160324 21:27:05< celticminstrel> Okay.
20160324 21:27:46< KinkyCode> celticminstrel: Sorry what? haha, did I miss something?
20160324 21:28:01< KinkyCode> celticminstrel: NEvermind, forgot to scroll down.
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20160324 21:33:11< celticminstrel> For the record, vultraz, wrapping is definitely to blame - if I set horizontal scroll mode to auto and wrap to false, the lobby chat scrolls properly even with long messages. I'm not sure whether it's an issue with tscroll_label or tscrollbar_container, though.
20160324 21:33:47< vultraz> we don't want it to wrap?
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20160324 21:33:57< celticminstrel> vultraz: No, we do want it to wrap.
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20160324 21:34:07< celticminstrel> It's not a fix, just verifying the cause.
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20160324 21:35:07< vultraz> ah
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20160324 21:36:41< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9054 (master - cccf1f8 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20160324 21:36:41< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118326439
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20160324 21:37:03< vultraz> celticminstrel: me thinks we really need a chat widget
20160324 21:37:18< celticminstrel> Eh?
20160324 21:38:00< vultraz> that is, if we need specialized behavior
20160324 21:38:26< celticminstrel> Seems kinda silly to create a new widget for a single use though.
20160324 21:39:03< vultraz> that's the problem with gui2
20160324 21:39:10< vultraz> wayy too focused on the widget paradigm
20160324 21:39:32< celticminstrel> You're going to have to explain that.
20160324 21:40:30< vultraz> after this game
20160324 21:40:43-!- higgins [~higgins@2607:5300:100:200::160d] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 21:41:12< shadowm> 02:50:05 <fendrin_> We should introduce tournaments between the developers.
20160324 21:41:34< shadowm> That'd be a great idea.
20160324 21:44:48-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: heirecka, irker223, Greywhind, Gambit, Jetrel_bot
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20160324 21:50:04< celticminstrel> Oh, irker is missing, so my push won't be announced.
20160324 21:50:50 * celticminstrel added [scroll_label]wrap= - it's not used currently, but I did use it temporarily in playing with the lobby, so it's confirmed to work.
20160324 21:51:27< celticminstrel> Also the AI fixes.
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20160324 22:06:12< vultraz> celticminstrel: GUI2 was (I think) designed to be the antithesis of GUI1. GUI1 was all about widgets defined in the source code and laid out in specific fashions relative to each other. GUI2 was designed for easy use since it's based in WML with each little widget having its behavior and design defined there. However, it's very much designed around that. Each facet of UI behavior has to be...
20160324 22:06:14< vultraz> ...defined as a widget. There's no way to dynamically construct 'widgets' based on, say, other widgets, without creating a master widget
20160324 22:06:41< vultraz> I'd really like to hear more from Jetrel_bot about how Anura avoids the widget paradigm
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20160324 22:13:23< vultraz> I just don't feel this whole widget thing very extendable to a more fluid and modern UI
20160324 22:17:16< vultraz> for example, the chat area thing
20160324 22:17:39< vultraz> the more I think about it, the more I realize it basically needs to be different widgets
20160324 22:17:56< vultraz> and that means we can't define a border around the entire thing
20160324 22:18:11< vultraz> widget states like 'selected' affect the entire widget
20160324 22:18:13< vultraz> not part of it
20160324 22:19:30< vultraz> this is why having widgets' design be on a single widget basis in WML is a bad idea
20160324 22:20:10< vultraz> but again, would like to hear Jetrel_bot's thoughts
20160324 22:44:46< celticminstrel> vultraz: Why can't you define a border around the entire thing?
20160324 22:44:53< celticminstrel> Grids are widgets too, aren't they?
20160324 22:49:45< celticminstrel> I have 22 stashes. O_O
20160324 22:51:44< celticminstrel> I think I'm going to have to redo xc-unit-tests.
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20160324 23:11:12< celticminstrel> Eight of which were obsolet.
20160324 23:11:27< celticminstrel> vultraz: What do you think about cleaning up the formula variant class?
20160324 23:11:31< celticminstrel> ^obsolete
20160324 23:12:41< irker223> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 14d375646ea9 / src/formula/formula.cpp: Formula engine: Fix debugger display of decimals https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/14d375646ea997886795e971ccfc0855e2c917b4
20160324 23:13:30< celticminstrel> It's currently a tagged union; I could convert it to boost::variant.
20160324 23:16:34< celticminstrel> If we had C++11 support I could keep it as a tagged union but do away with all the pointer business.
20160324 23:17:08< vultraz> just wait
20160324 23:17:14< vultraz> we'll switch to c++11 soon
20160324 23:17:31< celticminstrel> Well, I would only need to wait if someone thinks a tagged union is better.
20160324 23:17:45< celticminstrel> gfgtdf did say something about boost::variant maybe being slow in some versions.
20160324 23:18:14< celticminstrel> I guess I'll focus on the decimal thing first.
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20160324 23:33:13< vultraz> celticminstrel: btw yes I could do a border around the whole thing
20160324 23:33:22< vultraz> but then we wouldn't have the tabbed look
20160324 23:33:40< celticminstrel> Eh?
20160324 23:33:41< vultraz> also gui2 does not really have a way to draw borders around specific areas on the canvas
20160324 23:33:46< vultraz> [09:44:46]	celticminstrel	vultraz: Why can't you define a border around the entire thing?
20160324 23:34:20< celticminstrel> No, what I don't understand is why that means we wouldn't have the tabbed look.
20160324 23:34:36< vultraz> you need to draw borders around the currently active tab as well
20160324 23:34:39< vultraz> but not on the bottom
20160324 23:35:14< vultraz> drawing all around a combined chat area widget would just mean a box
20160324 23:35:41< celticminstrel> Still don't quite understand.
20160324 23:36:59< vultraz> it's complicated
20160324 23:37:10< vultraz> in gui2, widgets can have different 'states'
20160324 23:37:16< vultraz> ie, selected, active, etc
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20160324 23:37:28< celticminstrel> Why does that have anything to do with drawing a border around a grid?
20160324 23:37:57< vultraz> because I don't think you can do that
20160324 23:38:20< celticminstrel> Is there no way to draw a border around an arbitrary widget?
20160324 23:38:59-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160324 23:39:12< vultraz> not that I know of
20160324 23:39:21< vultraz> dialogs do have access to [draw] but... 
20160324 23:39:55< celticminstrel> I see. So the first step should be to add a generic widget border functionality, I think...
20160324 23:40:05< vultraz> you can have that
20160324 23:40:11< vultraz> but you need a new widget *definition*
20160324 23:40:15< celticminstrel> Since I just added wrap= to scroll_label, I'm willing to give this a try.
20160324 23:40:25< celticminstrel> Wait, what?
20160324 23:40:46< vultraz> you can draw a border around a widget
20160324 23:40:48< vultraz> I do it all the time
20160324 23:41:03< vultraz> but you need to create a new definition of a widget
20160324 23:41:04< celticminstrel> Oh, you're saying it's the definitions that have access to [draw], not the instantiations.
20160324 23:41:06< vultraz> on a pre-widget bases
20160324 23:41:08< vultraz> not a per-dialog
20160324 23:41:34< vultraz> yes, since only the definitions have access to the widget canvas
20160324 23:41:39< celticminstrel> Is that something like "border=2" or is it something more like "[draw]rectangle="?
20160324 23:41:44< vultraz> dialogs DO have [draw] as a widget type in columns 
20160324 23:41:50< vultraz> that's how I do those lines you see
20160324 23:41:52< vultraz> but...
20160324 23:42:05< vultraz> you don't have access to the widget's canvas so you don't know its size
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20160324 23:42:26< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9055 (master - 7f4c04c : Celtic Minstrel): The build has errored.
20160324 23:42:26< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/118353342
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20160324 23:42:37< vultraz> border  = in column refers to the locations of a buffer zone around the widget
20160324 23:42:46< celticminstrel> Eh?
20160324 23:42:59< vultraz> border = "all/top/bottom/left/right"
20160324 23:43:06< vultraz> border_size = int
20160324 23:43:09< vultraz> that
20160324 23:43:11< vultraz> s empty space
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20160324 23:43:41< vultraz> perhaps you begin to see why GUI2 is so cumbersome 
20160324 23:43:53< celticminstrel> So about drawing a border around a widget - do you have to manually draw a rectangle sized to fit the widget?
20160324 23:44:23< vultraz> if you were to do it in a dialog
20160324 23:44:34< vultraz> but I don't even think that's possible
20160324 23:44:51< vultraz> in dialogs, [draw] is considered a widget
20160324 23:44:59< vultraz> meaning it conforms to the same grid pattern as any other widget
20160324 23:45:22< vultraz> there should be a way to manipulate the canvas from c++, but I haven't looked into that
20160324 23:45:53< vultraz> now, back to your original question
20160324 23:46:01< vultraz> imagine we create a new 'chat area' widget
20160324 23:46:08< vultraz> we could do a border around it
20160324 23:46:15< vultraz> but how would we do the border around the active tabs?
20160324 23:46:43< vultraz> you'd need the behavior of a listbox as part of the chat area widget
20160324 23:46:56< celticminstrel> Don't make the tabs part of the widget?
20160324 23:47:11< vultraz> now, we could do a container widget like the unit preview pane, but again, border drawing
20160324 23:47:33< celticminstrel> Just don't include the tabs in the widget.
20160324 23:47:49< celticminstrel> There's other good reasons not to, as well.3
20160324 23:48:01< celticminstrel> Any other place using a chatbox won't need tabs.
20160324 23:48:09< celticminstrel> (I think.)
20160324 23:48:22< celticminstrel> You can't chat in the lobby while in the process of creating or joining a game, right?
20160324 23:48:34< vultraz> no
20160324 23:48:44< vultraz> because the rest of the interface is still gui1!
20160324 23:48:49< vultraz> you SHOULD be able to
20160324 23:48:51< vultraz> gaaaahhh
20160324 23:48:54< vultraz> *so frustrating*
20160324 23:49:03< celticminstrel> You think you should be able to?
20160324 23:49:16< celticminstrel> Well, I'm not opposed to it, I guess.
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20160324 23:50:49< vultraz> we need a better toolkit, period
20160324 23:50:54< vultraz> or we need to fix what we have
20160324 23:51:00< vultraz> and it will require major changes
20160324 23:51:13-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20160324 23:52:20< celticminstrel> I don't mind replacing GUI2 as long as the WML side remains sufficiently similar that dialogs will work without changes. Of course, finding a replacement is the hard part.
20160324 23:52:45< celticminstrel> (The WML side for defining dialogs, at least; not so important for the widget definitions and such.)
20160324 23:54:19< celticminstrel> I think it's probably a little easier to stick with GUI2 though.
20160324 23:54:56< vultraz> then we need to fix it
20160324 23:55:07< celticminstrel> No objections to that. :P
20160324 23:55:25< celticminstrel> I'll see if I can add border keys to widgets.
20160324 23:55:26< vultraz> because it shouldn't require an advanced degree in c++ template metaporgramming just to add a new feature
20160324 23:56:41< celticminstrel> What did you say border=left and border_size=5 does?
20160324 23:56:43< celticminstrel> Padding?
20160324 23:56:59< vultraz> yes
20160324 23:57:04< vultraz> but that's in [column]
20160324 23:57:12< nos__> codeblocks wins
20160324 23:57:13< nos__> lol
20160324 23:57:17< celticminstrel> Right, and [column] is not a widget, so no problem here.
20160324 23:57:28< vultraz> yes, but I think what you're doing is a hack
20160324 23:57:31< celticminstrel> nos__: Too difficult to set up a NetBeans project?
20160324 23:57:36< celticminstrel> vultraz: How so?
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20160324 23:57:53< vultraz> we want to be able to access the canvas, not just to draw borders
20160324 23:58:16< vultraz> honestly we need to take a page out of Aginor's book and get some whiteboards :P
20160324 23:58:59< celticminstrel> Hmmm...
--- Log closed Fri Mar 25 00:00:03 2016