--- Log opened Mon Mar 07 00:00:24 2016
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20160307 00:16:02< DeFender> not that zookeeper is here anymore, but one COULD make that same argument over many of the IPFs as well.
20160307 00:17:22< celticminstrel> I wrote a new page, anyone have any comments? https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Wesnoth_Formula_Language
20160307 00:27:35< DeFender> celticminstrel, wow... does all this stuff exist in 1.12, or is this new for 13?
20160307 00:28:04< celticminstrel> It exists for 1.12, but has been poorly documented up until now, and primarily only used for AI code.
20160307 00:28:18< celticminstrel> I haven't tested that everything there works in WML or unit filters.
20160307 00:28:26< DeFender> hmm
20160307 00:28:40< celticminstrel> But I'm fairly sure that, with the exception of function definitions, they will work there.
20160307 00:29:03< DeFender> it's unclear from this page how exactly one invokes WFL
20160307 00:29:10< celticminstrel> (If you happen to learn otherwise, feel free to edit the page with a version note similar to the one currently in the function definition section.)
20160307 00:29:11< celticminstrel> Ah.
20160307 00:29:29< celticminstrel> I can remedy that by adding a few links at the top, maybe. Just a moment.
20160307 00:29:41< celticminstrel> (I have made other relevant pages link to it, though.)
20160307 00:30:07< DeFender> makes sense
20160307 00:30:49< DeFender> i'm falling off my feet though, it's almost 3 AM here. I'll definitely look more at this tomorrow though
20160307 00:30:54< celticminstrel> It can be invoke with the $(...) syntax in variable substitution contexts.
20160307 00:31:00< DeFender> right
20160307 00:31:04< celticminstrel> It's also valid in the formula= key in unit filters.
20160307 00:31:14< DeFender> but the note at the top seems to indicate tha- ah
20160307 00:31:20< DeFender> hmm
20160307 00:31:21< celticminstrel> Seems to indicate which?
20160307 00:32:45< DeFender> nah, i was going to say that it seems to indicate that there's some way to invoke WFL aside from $(...), but you had already gotten to it
20160307 00:32:55< celticminstrel> Ah.
20160307 00:33:21< celticminstrel> The link to the FormulaAI page lists some other ways to invoke it as well.
20160307 00:33:44< DeFender> sorry, sometimes instead of deleting something that was made irrelevant by something someone says, i just interrupt myself and respond to the new line... probably a bad habit in written communication but whatever
20160307 00:34:07< celticminstrel> Eh, not a big problem.
20160307 00:34:17< celticminstrel> Sometimes I do it too. Or even finish the line anyway.
20160307 00:34:23< DeFender> heh
20160307 00:35:17< celticminstrel> The acronym WFL is something new, mind you. Before now it has been called FormulaAI, but I figured it would be better to separate the language itself from the AI engine that uses it.
20160307 00:36:01< DeFender> interesting... the more i learn about it, the more it seems like WML actually has several sub-languages used in various contexts... the preprocessor, WFL, progressive strings, Lua (sort of), and the more complicated animation stuff almost becomes its own syntax as well.
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20160307 00:36:49< DeFender> celticminstrel, i'm all for that. I'd been seeing references to "FormulaAI" and wondering why a formula language was being called "AI"
20160307 00:37:22< celticminstrel> Lua isn't really a sub-language of WML, but I suppose the formula language could be considered one.
20160307 00:37:34< DeFender> that's a good point.
20160307 00:37:52< DeFender> more like it can interact with lua.
20160307 00:37:59< celticminstrel> (The other reason for separating them is because there's talk of maybe dropping FormulaAI in the future.)
20160307 00:38:01< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20160307 00:38:58< DeFender> dropping FormulaAI meaning dropping the ability to direct AI stuff with formulas or dropping WFL entirely? Or is it the latter and this is an attempt to highlight that the syntax is useful in other contexts so that it doesn't get dropped?
20160307 00:39:16< celticminstrel> The former.
20160307 00:39:23< DeFender> ah
20160307 00:40:04< celticminstrel> Ack, my link didn't work.
20160307 00:40:25< DeFender> hmm?
20160307 00:41:01< celticminstrel> Oh, because I put the full URL instead of just the page name. Duh.
20160307 00:41:11< DeFender> :P
20160307 00:41:12< celticminstrel> (I edited the page to add more lines in the first paragraph.)
20160307 00:41:22< DeFender> seems like someone forgot how to wiki...
20160307 00:41:25< DeFender> ;)
20160307 00:41:29< celticminstrel> Heh.
20160307 00:41:29< DeFender> yeah, i reloaded and saw
20160307 00:41:46< celticminstrel> I'd add a link to the GUI2 page too, but I can never remember where that is.
20160307 00:41:56< celticminstrel> And probably most people won't need it anyway.
20160307 00:42:08< celticminstrel> I'm not even sure if UMC creators who do use GUI2 need it.
20160307 00:42:17< celticminstrel> It might be only devs who need it.
20160307 00:42:30< DeFender> well, if you ever do find it and link it, you'll now have an easy anchor to it so you'll never forget where it is again :P
20160307 00:42:38< celticminstrel> True, true.
20160307 00:43:27< DeFender> i'm not even going to ASK what GUI2 is. I assume it has something to do with changing the actual UI frame, which yeah, no one but core should be doing.
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20160307 01:50:53< celticminstrel> DeFender: It's more about putting up custom dialogs for advanced features.
20160307 01:51:09< celticminstrel> At least, that's what UMC would be using it for.
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20160307 14:26:37< DeFender> when a unit has more than one attack of the same type (melee for instance), how does the game pick which one is used when that unit is attacked?
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20160307 14:53:38< zookeeper> DeFender, unless the attack has a defense_weight set (such as scorpion's sting, i believe), it should pick the one which provides the smallest chance of dying, and if neither does, then the one with the highest expected damage, i guess.
20160307 14:54:37< DeFender> hmm
20160307 14:54:43< DeFender> I suppose that makes sense
20160307 14:55:11< DeFender> btw, re: <zookeeper> well yes, it'd be sort of ludicrous to do EQ'ing in an IPF (SPF?) instead of just, you know, making an edit to the sound
20160307 14:55:15< DeFender> one COULD make that same argument over many of the IPFs as well.
20160307 14:58:09< zookeeper> sure, but if you ask me, images still lend themselves to dynamic IPF-style alteration much better than sounds.
20160307 14:59:10< zookeeper> and, like, if you're making a magic animation, you can use IPF's to produce much more frames than would be convenient to actually have images for
20160307 15:03:56< zookeeper> sounds are basically used so much more rarely than images that the cost of just supplying alternate sounds where desired is much lower... although i suppose if the capability was there, their use might increase when you _could_ do all sorts of little variations without having to mess with binary files
20160307 15:13:19< zookeeper> even before IPF's, people didn't really tend to ship slightly modified alternate images just so something could be slightly color-shifted or an icon accentuated with some tiny detail or whatever, but if it can be done in WML then they're much more likely to do it that way
20160307 15:13:36< zookeeper> so i guess the same would be true for sounds
20160307 15:20:04< DeFender> hmm
20160307 15:20:26< DeFender> well, it's all theoretical at this point anyway
20160307 15:25:08< DeFender> but i do think that if it were there, people might use it
20160307 15:25:59< DeFender> volume for sure would be very helpful
20160307 15:26:33< zookeeper> definitely
20160307 15:27:09< DeFender> variations in length, pitch, equalization probably far less so
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20160307 22:15:47< janebot_> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) .@Xorganth wow, we had a streamer? :o [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/706966598909689857 ]
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 08 00:00:51 2016