--- Log opened Sun Apr 10 00:00:16 2016
20160410 00:01:07< celticminstrel> Ditto. I'll close it then.
20160410 00:01:41< celticminstrel> That's three of us who didn't like it.
20160410 00:02:52< celticminstrel> I guess I'll merge 562 as well.
20160410 00:03:52< celticminstrel> There was at least one thing mattsc wanted me to backport as well... maybe I'll remember next time I go through all my commits.
20160410 00:04:07< celticminstrel> There was also one thing I wanted to backport.
20160410 00:04:09-!- irker837 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 00:04:09< irker837> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:1.12 187aa22111f1 / src/hotkey/hotkey_item.cpp: Revert 'Improve hot-key handling for SDL 1.2 builds' 0b5ed477c35ef7ce7cb553d26af https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/187aa22111f1b273e71c901efffeadc43f7112a8
20160410 00:04:09< irker837> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:1.12 2f8a06680065 / changelog: Update change log. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2f8a06680065d5000be950ba0b19b7c9c888e821
20160410 00:04:10< irker837> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:1.12 705a9cc820ec / changelog src/hotkey/hotkey_item.cpp: Merge pull request #562 from Wedge009/bug_24186_fix_(1.12) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/705a9cc820eca60762ccd7cf925f0ae05456aeae
20160410 00:05:39< celticminstrel> Aginor: Regarding my comment in play_controller, I think he already addressed it.
20160410 00:06:23< celticminstrel> If I recall correctly, the code just after that line used to be something different from just a "return true".
20160410 00:06:55< celticminstrel> I may not recall correctly, but... based on reviewing the full changes, it does seem like some of the logic/data is in controller_base at the moment.
20160410 00:07:25< celticminstrel> So if I don't recall correctly, I probably placed the comment in a bad place or something.
20160410 00:07:53-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20160410 00:08:24-!- fendrin [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20160410 00:09:32< celticminstrel> Aginor: I did try it out in the editor, and it seemed to work.
20160410 00:20:36< Aginor> celticminstrel: seems good
20160410 00:21:15< Aginor> I'll check out later and give it a whirl too, but superficially it looks good
20160410 00:21:48< Aginor> I'm not sure we should have the scrolling functionality in any of those classes, but it's what it is already so I'll let those reservations lie
20160410 00:22:50< Aginor> as for vultraz's and fendrin's discussion about project future above, I think that's something that's best addressed on the mailing list so it gets full visibility/exposure
20160410 00:23:16< Aginor> I also think one of the most important thing we can do is to establish a realistic roadmap for the next couple of releases
20160410 00:23:38< Aginor> that'll also help us all to make sure we're working on useful stuff :)
20160410 00:23:57< celticminstrel> I think both of them are being unrealistic, but putting it on the mailing list does seem better than just arguing in IRC.
20160410 00:24:10< Aginor> yes
20160410 00:24:43< Aginor> arguing on IRC is always going to run into timezone issues, I'm always asleep/at work when these things are discussed :D
20160410 00:25:16< celticminstrel> Heh, true...
20160410 00:25:33< celticminstrel> Forums are much better for that sort of thing. (And a ML is sort of like a forum, so that works too.)
20160410 00:25:46< Aginor> although if a meeting was announced beforehand, I'd make an effort to attend
20160410 00:26:08< Aginor> I know someone who's a D-space committer, and they have a weekly meeting at a fixed time
20160410 00:26:14< Aginor> which isn't a bad thing
20160410 00:26:28< Aginor> but I'm not sure we need that level of formalism/beurocracy
20160410 00:26:28< celticminstrel> D-space?
20160410 00:26:41< Aginor> Dspace apparently :D
20160410 00:26:45< Aginor> http://www.dspace.org/
20160410 00:27:09< Aginor> DSpace is an open source repository software package typically used for creating open access repositories for scholarly and/or published digital content.
20160410 00:27:54< Aginor> they also have a vastly number of active developers than we do :D
20160410 00:29:20< Aginor> I need to leave now, I'll be back later :)
20160410 00:47:42-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20160410 00:51:31-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e3698e2.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 45.0.1/20160315153207]]
20160410 02:12:24-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160410 02:12:31-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 02:30:47-!- ScegfOd [637f4b7c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.127.75.124] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 02:42:09-!- midzer_ [~quassel@p5B29621E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 02:43:38< Aginor> and back
20160410 02:44:30-!- midzer [~quassel@p5B29692F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20160410 02:55:31< irker837> wesnoth: Boris Nagaev wesnoth:master 6e0886434556 / CMakeLists.txt doc/man/CMakeLists.txt doc/manual/CMakeLists.txt: respect CMAKE_MODULE_PATH provided by user https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6e0886434556975a4c51d04c1929f6823b835203
20160410 02:55:33< irker837> wesnoth: Andreas wesnoth:master 94fc73fcde2f / CMakeLists.txt doc/man/CMakeLists.txt doc/manual/CMakeLists.txt: Merge pull request #551 from starius/respect-user-cmake-module-path https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/94fc73fcde2f5138e814789b0408fc105186dd12
20160410 03:00:06-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 03:26:35-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-235-17-198.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 03:26:36< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9248 (master - 94fc73f : Andreas): The build has errored.
20160410 03:26:36< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/121996768
20160410 03:26:36-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-235-17-198.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20160410 03:30:07-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-27-21.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 03:38:13< vultraz> ancestral: did I mention I asked LB to make us new, bigger cursors?
20160410 03:39:07< ancestral> No, you hadn’t
20160410 03:39:08< ancestral> Neat
20160410 03:39:21< ancestral> I heard back from LB about ToD images
20160410 03:39:29< ancestral> I need to reply to him actually
20160410 03:39:34< vultraz> ah, is he going to make new ones?
20160410 03:45:26< ancestral> Yeah, he said he did some work for Fabi
20160410 03:45:50< ancestral> And there might be some stuff there that could be useful, and he has some other work that he did that never made it
20160410 03:46:09< vultraz> Fabi???
20160410 03:46:15< vultraz> what does fabi have to do with ToD images
20160410 03:46:34< ancestral> “Back in 2013, I worked with Fabi on an evolution of the GUI that was doing precisely what you're after, including larger time of day images (I've attached a sample of the screens we were discussing back then).”
20160410 03:46:47< ancestral> “The effort died out eventually, but I still have on my hard drive a full set of skies…”
20160410 03:46:54< vultraz> So you mean
20160410 03:46:58< vultraz> the UnitBox theme?
20160410 03:47:15< ancestral> Yeah except
20160410 03:47:43< vultraz> ie, this thing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l02q9qs2sk15snw/UI-game-mockups-07-vult.jpg?dl=0
20160410 03:48:14< ancestral> Yes, except
20160410 03:48:15< ancestral> https://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=70447&mode=view
20160410 03:48:31< ancestral> He has originals for those
20160410 03:48:43< vultraz> Does Not Exist Anymore
20160410 03:48:52< ancestral> “collection of unfinished terrain-matched foregrounds”
20160410 03:49:22< ancestral> Anyway, the point is, he made some pictures for different ToD
20160410 03:49:45< vultraz> ah
20160410 03:49:50< ancestral> And he is willing to adapt them to my UI theme, which unlike the one it was designed for, is not a radical departure
20160410 03:50:26< vultraz> good, good
20160410 03:50:31< vultraz> moar art is good
20160410 03:51:15< ancestral> Typially, the pieces that evolve are more practical than giant overhauls
20160410 03:52:11< vultraz> We should introduce something round into our UI
20160410 03:52:25< vultraz> I feel round things are "in" now.
20160410 03:52:52< vultraz> (for graphics, of course)
20160410 03:53:02< vultraz> (round buttons would be an abomination)
20160410 03:53:53< ScegfOd> hello
20160410 03:54:24< ScegfOd> speaking of buttons, I haven't yet figured out how to make the listbox toggle buttons do stuff...
20160410 03:54:28-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20160410 04:11:50-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 04:17:30< ancestral> ScegfOd: vultraz and celticminstrel seem to know the UI stuff pretty well
20160410 04:18:06< ancestral> I only know the Theme WML
20160410 04:18:27< celticminstrel> The UnitBox images are pretty nice.
20160410 04:18:39< celticminstrel> They cover not only the time of day but also terrains.
20160410 04:18:53< ScegfOd> honestly I'm not yet even 100% sure how to phrase the question
20160410 04:19:11< ScegfOd> i Keep thinking about what exactly to ask and then try something else in the cpp file XD
20160410 04:19:15< celticminstrel> So you could combine both to produce a single image of both terrain and time together.
20160410 04:20:33< ScegfOd> maybe... how do I access listbox toggle buttons?
20160410 04:21:40< celticminstrel> From what you've said, I'm guessing you need to connect a signal to the toggle button, or something like that...
20160410 04:21:52< ScegfOd> that sounds right
20160410 04:21:56< celticminstrel> Not quite sure how this works for things inside a listbox, actually.
20160410 04:22:05< ScegfOd> or read from the toggle button in the listbox at the end
20160410 04:22:19< ScegfOd> I saw some weird callback stuff in the add_on thing...
20160410 04:22:29< celticminstrel> But anyway, the API to connect signals is in tdispatcher, which is defined somewhere under src/gui/core/.
20160410 04:22:30< ScegfOd> list.cpp
20160410 04:22:43< ScegfOd> thanks, I'll give that a look
20160410 04:23:07< ScegfOd> also, I found a few new ways to make segmentation faults while trying things xD
20160410 04:23:09< celticminstrel> A widget is an instance of tdispatcher, so all those methods are available in any widget.
20160410 04:23:13< celticminstrel> Fun.
20160410 04:25:27< ancestral> celticminstrel: True, that is kind of nice having the terrain and ToD images on each other
20160410 04:26:18< ancestral> I think that might be possible as-is
20160410 04:26:25< celticminstrel> ?
20160410 04:26:35< ancestral> I think PNGs can be overlain on the sidebar
20160410 04:27:19< ancestral> Well, the terrain part might require some coding
20160410 04:44:40< ScegfOd> Is there a way to make a widget without using find_widget?
20160410 04:45:04< celticminstrel> find_widget doesn't make a widget, it returns an existing one.
20160410 04:45:39< ScegfOd> good point, in that case I mean without looking for it in a cfg file
20160410 04:46:11< celticminstrel> You can construct widgets and place them in a grid, but I think only by replacing an existing widget...
20160410 04:47:13< celticminstrel> I wonder, when you add a row to a listbox, does it return the new grid?
20160410 04:47:52< ScegfOd> add_row is void >.>
20160410 04:47:57< celticminstrel> Ehh...
20160410 04:47:59< ScegfOd> but that was a good idea xD
20160410 04:48:32< ScegfOd> there is a get_row_grid function
20160410 04:48:50< celticminstrel> Ah, and it takes what, an integer index or something?
20160410 04:49:05< ScegfOd> yes
20160410 04:49:15< ScegfOd> which I can get easily while making the list :3
20160410 04:49:20< celticminstrel> There's probably also a function to get the number of rows... and presumably new rows are added to the end... 
20160410 04:49:22< ScegfOd> but the return is "const tgrid*"
20160410 04:49:31< celticminstrel> Oh. That's kind of unhelpful.
20160410 04:49:32< ScegfOd> yeah new rows default to the end
20160410 04:49:36< ScegfOd> you can actually add anywhere
20160410 04:49:52< ScegfOd> and there is a #rows return thing too
20160410 04:50:13< ScegfOd> but I could use the tgrid* to find it's widgets, couldn't i?
20160410 04:50:18< ScegfOd> maybe XD
20160410 04:50:27< celticminstrel> Yeah, maybe...
20160410 04:50:50< celticminstrel> Oh, there's a get_row_grid that returns non-const as well.
20160410 04:51:32< celticminstrel> It would actually be trivial to mod add_row to return the grid...
20160410 04:51:33< ScegfOd> one other thing that I already failed at: "void list_item_clicked(twidget& caller);"
20160410 04:51:41< celticminstrel> Huh?
20160410 04:51:53< ScegfOd> it's supposed to do something with the caller function
20160410 04:52:02< ScegfOd> when you lick a row
20160410 04:52:30< ScegfOd> "/** Function to call after the user clicked on a row. */"
20160410 04:53:09< celticminstrel> Eh? Where is this declared?
20160410 04:53:20< celticminstrel> Though I don't think it's what you want, anyway.
20160410 04:54:49< ScegfOd> line 182
20160410 04:54:53< ScegfOd> of the header
20160410 04:55:37< ScegfOd> if I can access the widgets with that grid, that'd be all I need :3
20160410 04:56:07< celticminstrel> I think get_row_grid is probably the best way to go, unless you want to mod add_row to return the grid.
20160410 04:58:14< ScegfOd> I've already got the index, so I suppose I'll just do that to avoid making add_row more useful :P
20160410 04:58:57< celticminstrel> I think I already suggested this modification to vultraz when he was doing something related, too.
20160410 04:59:07< celticminstrel> Maybe I'll do it at some point. Or maybe not.
20160410 05:00:03< ScegfOd> also, I'm curious, do you know why there are two versions of add_row?
20160410 05:00:22< ScegfOd> looking at the cpp I think the one with the extra string just throws it away...
20160410 05:00:30< celticminstrel> I was wondering that myself, lemme check.
20160410 05:02:13< celticminstrel> Right, the generator does all the work, so no idea. >_>
20160410 05:02:28< celticminstrel> That's not actually an extra string argument.
20160410 05:02:44< celticminstrel> The data argument is map<string,map<string,string>> instead of a map<string,string>.
20160410 05:03:02< ScegfOd> .....huh
20160410 05:03:35< celticminstrel> The comment says it's to be used if the row contains multiple widgets.
20160410 05:03:39< celticminstrel> Or something.
20160410 05:04:00< celticminstrel> So I guess each value represents a different widget?
20160410 05:04:04< celticminstrel> And the key is its ID.
20160410 05:06:38-!- enchi [enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20160410 05:07:34< ScegfOd> ah
20160410 05:08:00< ScegfOd> I guess that means it's similar to find widget but restricted to ... not the whole cfg xD
20160410 05:08:04< ScegfOd> that one row?
20160410 05:08:16< celticminstrel> Eh?
20160410 05:08:26< celticminstrel> find_widget can be restricted to anything you want, though.
20160410 05:08:32< ScegfOd> neat!
20160410 05:08:51< ScegfOd> I bet I can use that on the grid...
20160410 05:09:12< celticminstrel> I think the first argument is what to search in, or something?
20160410 05:09:21< celticminstrel> Of course if you pass the window, that's the entire cfg.
20160410 05:10:38< ScegfOd> that's what the orb select and the graphics thing did, so I kinda just assumed xD
20160410 05:17:46< vultraz> [15:58:56]	celticminstrel	I think I already suggested this modification to vultraz when he was doing something related, too.
20160410 05:17:47< vultraz> you did
20160410 05:18:01< vultraz> it would be useful, but I didn't figure out how it would do what I needed
20160410 05:18:35< vultraz> (binding callbacks  to specific rows without using indexes, I think it was)
20160410 05:18:59< celticminstrel> Oh right, in the MP lobby.
20160410 05:20:56< vultraz> I bind the 'close' button callback for each row with the row's index when the row is created
20160410 05:21:13< vultraz> which causes problems when you close any tab/row that's not the last one
20160410 05:21:16< celticminstrel> Wait, are you saying you didn't fix this yet?
20160410 05:21:19< vultraz> No
20160410 05:21:44< celticminstrel> Gah, don't respond to a negative question with "no", it's confusing.
20160410 05:21:57< vultraz> No, I did not fix this yet
20160410 05:22:28< celticminstrel> This problem was in the tab bar? I thought it was in the game list...
20160410 05:23:21< vultraz> tab bar yes
20160410 05:23:36< vultraz> also appears locally in my implementation of the inline delete button
20160410 05:23:43< vultraz> in Load Game
20160410 05:23:58< celticminstrel> I see.
20160410 05:24:10< vultraz> basically, it's a problem about how to implement buttons on a per-row basis
20160410 05:24:33< celticminstrel> It's specifically a problem with buttons within a row that delete that row...
20160410 05:24:39< vultraz> yes
20160410 05:25:08< ScegfOd> a self destruct button that destroys extra stuff? :o
20160410 05:25:26< celticminstrel> More like, it deletes the wrong row?
20160410 05:25:36< vultraz> yes
20160410 05:25:50< celticminstrel> So the row you clicked would stay, but some other row would disappear.
20160410 05:25:52< ScegfOd> self-destruct -> destory-other Hmmmmmmm
20160410 05:25:56< vultraz> yes
20160410 05:26:00< vultraz> since the bound index is wrong
20160410 05:26:23< vultraz> if the row is bound for row 4, and you delete row 3, row 4 is now 3 but it will delete 4
20160410 05:27:18< celticminstrel> The key is obviously not to bind the index, but the question is, what to bind instead.
20160410 05:27:23< vultraz> yes
20160410 05:28:33< vultraz> maybe I could take delete_row take a row pointer?
20160410 05:28:59< celticminstrel> Something along those lines seems sensible.
20160410 05:30:14< vultraz> I'd need to iterate trough all rows to check the pointer
20160410 05:30:38< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20160410 05:30:50< ScegfOd> what about mapping?
20160410 05:31:10< celticminstrel> ?
20160410 05:31:22< ScegfOd> basically you'd delete based on key instead of index
20160410 05:31:43< ScegfOd> keys wouldn't shift around when you delete, right?
20160410 05:31:54< celticminstrel> That would be ideal, but require too drastic changes to the implementation of the listbox, I think.
20160410 05:32:02< ScegfOd> ah good point
20160410 05:32:08< ScegfOd> that'd be a lot of rewriting...
20160410 05:32:15< celticminstrel> I wonder if a secondary mapping would be of any help...
20160410 05:32:29< celticminstrel> I suspect that wouldn't work...
20160410 05:37:27< ScegfOd> maybe you could have an array of pointers and decrement all the pointers after the deleted one?
20160410 05:37:32< ScegfOd> it'd be almost like mapping
20160410 05:37:41< ScegfOd> ...I think...
20160410 05:38:15< celticminstrel> I think I sort of get where you're thinking...
20160410 05:40:32< vultraz> I might leave this to celmin to fix
20160410 05:41:14< celticminstrel> :/
20160410 05:41:38< celticminstrel> Well, it's not like I don't think I can do it...
20160410 05:42:18< ScegfOd> hey neat, I found out a way to make wesnoth segment default twice and then run normally....
20160410 05:42:25< ScegfOd> these buttons tho D:
20160410 05:43:23< celticminstrel> Come to think of it, since the listbox is static, you could probably use the walker iterator somehow... not quite sure how that would work though.
20160410 05:43:48 * vultraz wonders why the About dialog says I have Windows 10.0.10586
20160410 05:43:50< celticminstrel> It's probably cleaner to use get_row_grid in find_widget or whatever.
20160410 05:43:55< vultraz> I have 1511
20160410 05:44:09< celticminstrel> Who knows. Don't care.
20160410 05:44:20< vultraz> Yeah, who knows
20160410 05:44:20< celticminstrel> Feel free to fix it if you can figure out how.
20160410 05:44:54< vultraz> I'm not asking you to fix *this* :P
20160410 05:45:07< celticminstrel> I won't fix it, because I'm not compiling on Windows.
20160410 05:46:22< celticminstrel> I already fixed OSX showing as Darwin.
20160410 05:47:17< ScegfOd> heh, yeah i'm currently trying to copy the walker method over from the orb_select menu...
20160410 05:47:42< ScegfOd> it works directly on the grid dontcha know :3
20160410 05:48:00< celticminstrel> Using the walker method does guarantee only two passes through the list - one to add the items, the other to bind signal callbacks.
20160410 05:48:25< celticminstrel> Using an add_row() that returns the grid would guarantee only one pass through the list, but using get_row_grid probably implies N+1 passes.
20160410 05:48:51< celticminstrel> Though, if it's going by number, I guess it's likely a straight lookup, not a linear pass.
20160410 05:49:21< ScegfOd> it does ask for the number, I guess I'll cross my fingers :P
20160410 05:49:30< celticminstrel> I don't think the difference between one pass and two passes is meaningful.
20160410 05:49:35< vultraz> gm
20160410 05:49:37< vultraz> hm
20160410 05:49:39< vultraz> dwBuildNumber
20160410 05:49:43< ScegfOd> probly ont
20160410 05:49:45< ScegfOd> not*
20160410 05:54:53-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F0D0151AD03617A15C2F1DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 05:58:06-!- irker837 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20160410 05:58:50-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-27-21.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160410 05:59:42< vultraz> ah, it's working correctly
20160410 06:09:07-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-27-21.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 06:17:14-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20160410 06:20:19-!- ScegfOd [637f4b7c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.127.75.124] has quit []
20160410 06:40:10-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 06:41:42< Aginor> I see there's an official-looking page on facebook for us
20160410 06:41:47< Aginor> who's running it?
20160410 06:44:00< Aginor> gfgtdf, vultraz, whoever else: is this a security issue? https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44004
20160410 06:44:51< Aginor> ancestral: ^
20160410 06:44:53< Aginor> maybe?
20160410 06:45:28< vultraz> Not sure how that constitutes a security issue
20160410 06:45:37< celticminstrel> I'm not sure how it would be a security issue...
20160410 06:45:56< ancestral> Sounds like a ban may be in order
20160410 06:46:15< Aginor> it depends on who is doing it, but if it's someone who's found a way to send messages to ongoing games without participating
20160410 06:46:21< ancestral> Or more info is needed
20160410 06:46:24< Aginor> but maybe that's not what's happening
20160410 06:46:25< Aginor> yeah
20160410 06:46:39< vultraz> you can send a message to anyone
20160410 06:46:41< celticminstrel> The post says "whispering".
20160410 06:47:00 * Aginor has never played MP :D
20160410 06:47:28< celticminstrel> "whisper" is private messaging. I've never used it muself, though.
20160410 06:47:37< Aginor> I strongly feel like I should connect to a server with a network sniffer running and see what I can find out
20160410 06:47:50< Aginor> and if there's anythning that looks amusing to wreak havoc on
20160410 06:48:15< Aginor> does anyone who has a clue about things MP interact with the guy?
20160410 06:48:27< vultraz> ?
20160410 06:48:45< Aginor> gethering information to see if a ban from someone is needed
20160410 06:50:08< vultraz> I'm not an MP mod
20160410 06:50:16< vultraz> that's an MP mod's job
20160410 06:50:25< Aginor> where do we find htem?
20160410 06:50:28< Aginor> one of the other channels?
20160410 06:51:19< vultraz> ummm
20160410 06:51:23< vultraz> I dunno..
20160410 06:51:35< vultraz> don't even know how many are active
20160410 06:55:03< Kwandulin> Aginor: do you mean fb/wesnothian? that is run by aldarisvet
20160410 06:55:45< Aginor> https://www.facebook.com/wesnothian/?ref=br_rs
20160410 06:55:50< Aginor> yes, it appears so
20160410 06:55:59< Kwandulin> i dont think he is shedding a good light on the project
20160410 06:56:01< Aginor> I found it yesterday when looking at the wesnoth subbreddit
20160410 06:57:14< Aginor> a lot of the contents seem to be advertising some other mod of the game
20160410 06:57:28< Aginor> which they are promoting a lot :)
20160410 07:09:51< celticminstrel> This is ridiculous. After running git gc, the repo is 1.5 times larger.
20160410 07:10:02 * Aginor sniggers
20160410 07:10:40 * celticminstrel will try it again, in case it got messed up somehow. Also, there might be a possibility of stray temp files around somewhere...
20160410 07:11:09< Aginor> celticminstrel: git repack mayhaps?
20160410 07:11:28< celticminstrel> I'll try that next.
20160410 07:11:38< Aginor> you might want to check your reflog too
20160410 07:11:43< celticminstrel> Previously it failed during repack due to lack of hard drive space.
20160410 07:12:02< celticminstrel> Which in itself is pretty ridiculous.
20160410 07:12:42-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep
20160410 07:15:15< Aginor> yes
20160410 07:15:42< Aginor> I find it funny because it's excactly the kind of problems I always run into
20160410 07:17:16-!- enchi [enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 07:19:31< vultraz> I'm logging off later to go on wesbreak for a while.
20160410 07:19:44< Aginor> good luck with your studies
20160410 07:19:52< vultraz> celmin|sleep and Aginor are in charge while I'm away.
20160410 07:21:58-!- enchi [enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20160410 07:22:30< vultraz> And I'll be reachable by email/forum PM should I be needed.
20160410 07:23:02 * Aginor cackles manically
20160410 07:25:42-!- EdB [~edb@89.193.129.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 07:30:35-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@x4e304cf5.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 07:41:35-!- enchi [enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 07:43:48-!- midzer_ is now known as midzer
20160410 07:43:56-!- midzer [~quassel@p5B29621E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
20160410 07:44:06-!- midzer [~quassel@p5B29621E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 07:49:44-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 07:49:53< Aginor> hey lipkab 
20160410 07:50:09< lipkab> Hi Aginor.
20160410 07:50:22< Aginor> how's life?
20160410 07:50:53< lipkab> Extremely busy, but otherwise agreeable, thanks.
20160410 07:51:02< lipkab> What's up with you?
20160410 07:51:22< Aginor> likewise busy
20160410 07:51:55< Aginor> between work and consulting there's not much spare time around :D
20160410 07:53:42< lipkab> Same here... I'm sitting in front of this damn computer whole day correcting homeworks, writing homeworks and doing work.
20160410 07:54:58< Aginor> yup
20160410 07:55:27< Aginor> I switched jobs this week too, that adds to the draining
20160410 07:55:59< lipkab> What's your job? Programming, I guess?
20160410 08:03:21< Aginor> amongst others, yes
20160410 08:04:19< Aginor> I'm doing some scrum-mastery stuff too, but they're not a terribly agile shop at the moment
20160410 08:15:29< lipkab> Ah, nice.
20160410 08:24:33-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 08:30:25< Aginor> what about you_
20160410 08:33:24< zookeeper> Aginor, i did try to figure out what the deal was with that troll report, but the MP admin interface was fighting me somewhat
20160410 08:34:01< Aginor> zookeeper: as I stated, I have no idea about things multiplayer, but I'm glad you're looking into it
20160410 08:38:26< lipkab> Aginor: I'm nearly finished with bachelor studies. I'm yet to complete 320 hours of full-time internship to be able to get a diploma, though.
20160410 08:39:00< lipkab> So I'm spamming IT companies with my CV atm.
20160410 08:39:32< lipkab> Also trying to learn Vietnamese, but it's sort of an uphill struggle.
20160410 08:44:39< zookeeper> Aginor, yeah, i'm keeping an eye on the lobby logs. there's been some noisemaking like that there in recent days, but since the admin interface doesn't let me view the IPs of the right usernames etc etc it's kind of hard to conclude anything.
20160410 08:47:08-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 08:49:39-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD111237163141.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20160410 08:51:04-!- Dugi [5a40133b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.64.19.59] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 08:51:42< Aginor> lipkab: what kind of internship, specifically?
20160410 08:52:43< loonycyborg> Why you're learning vietnamese? You're in asia somewhere?
20160410 08:55:20-!- Dugi [5a40133b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.64.19.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160410 09:07:38< vultraz> ancestral: once we get a mac dev account, could wesnoth be published as a desktop app in the app store?
20160410 09:07:51< ancestral> Yes
20160410 09:07:59< vultraz> good, good
20160410 09:08:45< vultraz> Hope we get that soon.
20160410 09:09:41-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-27-21.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160410 09:11:28 * vultraz looks up requirements for Windows app store
20160410 09:14:27< vultraz> ok, so it looks like $100 for a 'company' dev account on windows
20160410 09:14:51< vultraz> $20 for an individual 
20160410 09:16:08< vultraz> I'm assuming we'd be a company.
20160410 09:17:04< vultraz> so, about $300 bucks total. ($100 each for Windows, OS X and Steam)
20160410 09:20:09< lipkab> Aginor: Basically a full-time job for eight weeks. I hope to work as a C++ or Python programmer, maybe Haskell.
20160410 09:20:44< lipkab> loonycyborg: No, but my girlfriend is half-Vietnamese.
20160410 09:23:36< vultraz> Huh
20160410 09:23:44< vultraz> weird coincidence 
20160410 09:46:20-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD118156069026.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 09:47:11-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 09:49:36-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20160410 09:49:37-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009
20160410 09:52:26-!- EdB [~edb@89.193.129.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20160410 10:42:18-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F0D0151AD03617A15C2F1DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160410 10:58:59-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 11:11:28-!- prkc [~prkc@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/prkc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 11:48:35-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20160410 11:48:50-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 11:55:43-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F0D015111E77B848D87F15F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 12:35:26-!- Kwandulin_2 [~Miranda@p200300760F0D01D811E77B848D87F15F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 12:37:50-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F0D015111E77B848D87F15F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160410 13:44:34< zookeeper> note: it'd be super useful if adminmsg's from MP lobbies could be seen in irc somewhere/somehow. could just be a notification that an adminmsg was issued, if not the actual contents.
20160410 13:48:44< zookeeper> also, adminmsg's are supposed to get logged in case no mods are online right then, but... uh... where?
20160410 13:49:29< zookeeper> do previous adminmsg's get displayed for a mod whenever they log in? if so, for how long?
20160410 14:09:35-!- fendrin [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 14:09:53< fendrin> hi
20160410 14:14:23< lipkab> Hi fendrin.
20160410 14:51:10-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-27-21.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 15:04:59-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20160410 15:12:53-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-27-21.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160410 15:14:35-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20160410 15:15:48-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 15:26:01-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 15:38:10-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160410 15:42:40-!- irker868 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 15:42:40< irker868> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 53f1b5a17085 / / (10 files in 2 dirs): New Color cursor graphics by LordBob https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/53f1b5a170851a18ef8d7023324f05814ab65371
20160410 15:45:38< celmin|sleep> Ooh nice.
20160410 15:48:04< vultraz> Indeed
20160410 15:57:13-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel
20160410 16:08:08-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-166-215-247.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 16:08:09< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9249 (master - 53f1b5a : Charles Dang): The build passed.
20160410 16:08:09< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/122064879
20160410 16:08:09-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-166-215-247.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20160410 16:20:22< celticminstrel> The drag-attack one is a little weird compared to before, but I guess it's not bad.
20160410 16:20:34< celticminstrel> Besides, I never see that one. >_>
20160410 16:25:01< irker868> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd 16e5496f7efb / src/server/ban.cpp: Re-enabled functionality to read bans from file https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/16e5496f7efb7fde959dcf3afef4a6c1ab35f595
20160410 16:25:03< irker868> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd 0143bbbc59f2 / src/scripting/lua_unit_type.cpp: Ensure that string.h is #included https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0143bbbc59f2096dcffecc5c5b16edf2ec0efe7c
20160410 16:27:01-!- Kwandulin_2 [~Miranda@p200300760F0D01D811E77B848D87F15F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160410 17:00:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160410 17:01:00-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 17:12:16< vultraz> I'm out
20160410 17:13:33-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Going on Wesbreak. Email or send me a forum PM if necessary.]
20160410 17:15:28-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-184-73-32-15.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 17:15:29< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9250 (asio_wesnothd - 0143bbb : loonycyborg): The build has errored.
20160410 17:15:29< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/122070202
20160410 17:15:29-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-184-73-32-15.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20160410 17:19:18< celticminstrel> What the heck is that link error?
20160410 17:20:41< celticminstrel> Also, how do the WML unit tests pass when there was a link error? Because the error was in wesnothd instead of wesnoth?
20160410 17:23:16< loonycyborg> I'm not sure, maybe -pthread is missing
20160410 17:24:29< loonycyborg> seems wesnoth indeed got built so tests could be run
20160410 17:24:36< loonycyborg> only wesnothd failed
20160410 17:25:52< loonycyborg> hmm I managed to repro it too by disabling forum_user_handler, seems it was adding -lpthread due to pkg-config
20160410 17:26:46< loonycyborg> But I think I should try to find out if I can get rid of that symbol use instead of adding -pthread..
20160410 17:26:47-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F0D01D8298F9D5B500C901C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 17:47:58< fendrin> the ingame commandline
20160410 17:48:06< fendrin> how can I call it?
20160410 17:48:21< fendrin> Where is the hotkey entry?
20160410 17:50:45< celticminstrel> You mean semicolon?
20160410 17:50:49< celticminstrel> (Assuming US keyboard.)
20160410 17:50:59< fendrin> it moved to "ö"
20160410 17:51:06< fendrin> on my german one
20160410 17:51:13< celticminstrel> Right.
20160410 17:51:18< fendrin> okay
20160410 17:56:09-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 17:59:19< irker868> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd 94c5e15aa0a4 / src/server/player_connection.hpp: Fix typo in copyright year https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/94c5e15aa0a41ddc6175793487551ed7dbadbbb6
20160410 17:59:21< irker868> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd 2172303c13d3 / src/server/player_connection.hpp: Disable asio thread support which was causing link error without -pthread https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2172303c13d3a5cf56d151f6565d256c9b5bea5d
20160410 18:42:32-!- prkc [~prkc@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/prkc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160410 18:49:44-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-184-73-32-15.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 18:49:44< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9252 (asio_wesnothd - 2172303 : loonycyborg): The build has errored.
20160410 18:49:45< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/122082116
20160410 18:49:45-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-184-73-32-15.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20160410 18:53:34< loonycyborg> somehow only clang -O2 failed :P
20160410 18:57:19< celticminstrel> Why is it printing out an entire scenario... o.o
20160410 18:58:19< celticminstrel> I'm guessing it got terminated by Travis for running too long, because the MP test is printing insane amounts of log output. Including two entire preprocessed scenario WMLs.
20160410 18:58:46< loonycyborg> why it happens only in clang -O2?
20160410 18:58:52< celticminstrel> No idea.
20160410 18:58:59< loonycyborg> other tests seem to redirect it
20160410 18:59:53< celticminstrel> Oh. The other builds are skipping the MP test, I think.
20160410 18:59:56< loonycyborg> entire scenarios appear because I made wesnothd dump all wml it's getting
20160410 19:00:32< celticminstrel> Then make it dump that in some logdomain, so that it doesn't show up when running in Travis.
20160410 19:00:43< celticminstrel> Probably on info/debug level.
20160410 19:14:44< irker868> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd 6cab7d221276 / src/server/server.cpp: Move WML dumps to debug log level, server logdomain https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6cab7d2212763baced9c0da0e8da5390823861b6
20160410 19:35:35-!- horrowind [~Icedove@2a02:810a:83c0:1c18:21b:fcff:fee3:c3ff] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 19:44:58-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160410 19:46:56-!- shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 19:47:23-!- shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20160410 19:48:04-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 20:48:09-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F0D01D8298F9D5B500C901C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160410 20:57:51-!- Dugi [93fbd396@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.251.211.150] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 20:57:57< Dugi> Hello.
20160410 20:59:20< Dugi> My pull request is hanging there without receiving any comments, I have corrected or settled or that was criticised, can anyone have a final look at it and finish it? I don't want it to rot into incompatibility.
20160410 21:00:56< celticminstrel> Dugi: I think we're still waiting for zookeeper to find time to look at a sample of names from the new generator.
20160410 21:01:23< zookeeper> already did
20160410 21:01:28< celticminstrel> Ah, you did?
20160410 21:01:33< zookeeper> got a couple of notes
20160410 21:01:59< Dugi> Can you send them to me?
20160410 21:02:16< zookeeper> mind if i just paste here?
20160410 21:04:16< Dugi> I thought it was longer.
20160410 21:05:40< zookeeper> - drake females used to have no apostrophes, now they have
20160410 21:05:40< zookeeper> - i'd avoid the dwarvish surnames
20160410 21:05:40< zookeeper> - elvish names seem rather less classically elvish, and no short (3-4 chars) names at all; also saw an elvish female name "Cënnne"
20160410 21:05:40< zookeeper> - human names (especially male) tend to be completely different than the old ones
20160410 21:05:40< zookeeper> - would be nice if orcish names had a bit more of the old blunt 3-4 char names (Vruk, Gruk, Pash, Hor, Burk, Vak, Bor, that sort of thing)
20160410 21:06:33< celticminstrel> The human names in the Markov list seem to be based on Welsh, if that helps.
20160410 21:06:53< celticminstrel> I suspect the elvish names are based on Sindarin.
20160410 21:08:05< zookeeper> the old human names have a very distinct style to them and everyone and their mom has named various human characters in the same style, so i'm not too keen on losing that
20160410 21:08:19-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160410 21:09:36< Dugi> Drake males had, so I assumed that it was just chance that no female drake name had it.
20160410 21:10:36< Dugi> The dwarvish surnames are meant to by patronyms. Some people like beetlenaut liked the idea of adding them.
20160410 21:11:20< Dugi> Overly short names were not on the list, they just came from the markov generators and were very common, so I don't think they are good.
20160410 21:11:31< Dugi> Cënnne is of course a mistake.
20160410 21:12:00< celticminstrel> I disagree on overly short names with respect to orcs, at least.
20160410 21:12:01< Dugi> Human names were somewhat based on English names, I did not get that they were meant to be based on Welsh names.
20160410 21:12:05< celticminstrel> With elves, I'm a little less sure.
20160410 21:12:31< celticminstrel> Basically I agree that the really short names suit orcs.
20160410 21:12:43< Dugi> I originally had orcs with such short names, but I found them lame and removed them.
20160410 21:13:15< celticminstrel> But I think they suit the orcs.
20160410 21:13:25-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@x4e304cf5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160410 21:13:45< celticminstrel> No matter how I look at this list of names, it feels like there's a hint of Welsh to it.
20160410 21:14:09< celticminstrel> Double D's and L's are common, and there are a lot of Y's.
20160410 21:14:09-!- ancestral [~ancestral@209.181.254.220] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 21:14:29< zookeeper> yeah, one-syllable gruntish words are perfect for orcs if you ask me
20160410 21:15:20< celticminstrel> I can't see any obviously Welsh names in the list though... like "Gwendolyn" for females or "Bran".
20160410 21:16:32< celticminstrel> I suppose there may also be hints of English influence in there... "Reodry" feels a little Englishy...
20160410 21:16:39< Dugi> Should short orcish names be just Bug, Grash and so on or can there also be names like Ozgo or Adru?
20160410 21:16:44< zookeeper> also, we should keep the old male_name/female_name lists in for a while longer. if it happens that for whatever reason we need to restore them for this or that race, we don't want the translations for them to have gotten lost.
20160410 21:16:52-!- prkc [~prkc@192.40.89.72] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 21:16:56< celticminstrel> Okay.
20160410 21:17:52< zookeeper> Dugi, both, i guess
20160410 21:18:11< Dugi> Okay.
20160410 21:18:47< zookeeper> would probably need more than 2 examples of the latter kind to be sure :p
20160410 21:21:12< celticminstrel> (Incidentally, I think it'd be great if "Gwendolyn" and "Bran" were possible human names. :P )
20160410 21:22:09-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-107-20-108-37.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 21:22:10< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9254 (asio_wesnothd - 6cab7d2 : loonycyborg): The build has errored.
20160410 21:22:10< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/122092757
20160410 21:22:10-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-107-20-108-37.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20160410 21:23:20< Dugi> Okay, link to the improved orcs: http://physics.muni.cz/~dugi/index.fcgi/cfggen-bWFpbj17bmFtZX1cbntuYW1lfVxue25hbWV9XG57bmFtZX1cbntuYW1lfVxue25hbWV9XG57bmFtZX1cbntuYW1lfVxue25hbWV9XG57bmFtZX1cbntuYW1lfVxue25hbWV9XG57bmFtZX1cbntuYW1lfVxue25hbWV9XG57bmFtZX0KbmFtZT17c3RhcnRpbmdfY29uc29ubmFudH17dm93ZWx9e2NvbnNvbm5hbnR9e3Zvd2VsfXtlbmRpbmdfY29uc29ubmFudH18e3N0YXJ0aW5nX2NvbnNvbm5hbnR9e3Zvd2VsfXtjb25zb25uYW50fXtlbmRpbmdfdm93ZWx9fHtzdGFyd
20160410 21:23:32< ancestral> Wow that’s a wall of a URL
20160410 21:24:40-!- horrowind [~Icedove@2a02:810a:83c0:1c18:21b:fcff:fee3:c3ff] has quit [Quit: horrowind]
20160410 21:24:48-!- shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 21:25:03< shadowm> Dugi: Use a link shortener. Your link goes well above the IRC message length.
20160410 21:25:05-!- ancestral [~ancestral@209.181.254.220] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160410 21:25:31< shadowm> That means that it's abruptly cut off, and your application starts malformed input as a result.
20160410 21:25:38< shadowm> *starts with
20160410 21:26:16< Dugi> Okay, shortened: http://goo.gl/H85GJV
20160410 21:26:41< celticminstrel> Heh, "Rob".
20160410 21:27:48< zookeeper> also Pnb, Tnr and Prnr :P
20160410 21:27:53< celticminstrel> I also see "Uno", which doesn't really suit an orc.
20160410 21:28:16< celticminstrel> There's also a couple with lots of consonants in a row, like "Prngzak" and "Bngdu", which isn't necessarily a bad thing though.
20160410 21:28:25< celticminstrel> Oh, and "Khnsh".
20160410 21:28:50< celticminstrel> Other languages have similar big consonant clusters, after all (eg Russian, I think?).
20160410 21:29:23< celticminstrel> Hmm, the only ones that don't really seem orcish to me are "Uno", "Aso", and "Rob".
20160410 21:29:43< celticminstrel> I think VCV shouldn't be an acceptable pattern. Maybe VCCV could be okay.
20160410 21:30:05< celticminstrel> Not entirely sure though...
20160410 21:30:57< celticminstrel> Next set, I get "Brnrbu", heh.
20160410 21:31:07< Dugi> That isn't supposed to happen.
20160410 21:31:07< celticminstrel> And "Gragdnsh".
20160410 21:31:12< Dugi> I must have made a mistake somewhere.
20160410 21:31:16< celticminstrel> It's not necessarily bad, but you may want to fix it.
20160410 21:31:18 * celticminstrel shrugs.
20160410 21:31:47< shadowm> "And that's our leader, Uno. Why's he called that, you ask? Well, it's actually just a nickname. He earned it after beating every single warlord in the Far North at card games."
20160410 21:32:00< celticminstrel> XD
20160410 21:33:19< Dugi> Lol. An update, the Gragdnsh should not be possible anymore http://goo.gl/vtpdl0
20160410 21:34:07< Dugi> Should the apostrophe by removed from possible drake female names?
20160410 21:34:13< celticminstrel> Still dubious about VCV, but on the other hand "Igu" doesn't seem to bad, unlike "Oso" or "Avo"... "Osu" seems okay too...
20160410 21:34:48< Dugi> Uno is no different from them. It just has an odd meaning.
20160410 21:35:01-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV]
20160410 21:37:44< Dugi> Fixed problem with female elves (short names not enabled because I was not given an explicit order for that): http://goo.gl/lWd064
20160410 21:39:59< zookeeper> as a general note, i find it rather impossible to say whether any of these are actually an improvement over the old ones. all i can do is look at both and try to get a feeling for whether the new ones are noticeably un-orcish/elvish/human/saurian/etc
20160410 21:40:22< zookeeper> for most of the minor races i haven't noticed anything particularly off about them
20160410 21:40:43< shadowm> celticminstrel: Perhaps you might be interested in fixing that problem ancestral noted days ago wherein Cocoa notifications are assumed disabled by the Version dialog? It's because the relevant pp symbol, HAVE_NS_USER_NOTIFICATION, isn't defined for build_info.cpp, like I said.
20160410 21:41:22< celticminstrel> Eh, it's not like I can actually verify if it works, so I'm a little against being the one to fix it...
20160410 21:41:33< shadowm> Don't you use OS X?
20160410 21:41:38< zookeeper> Dugi, and yes i'd remove the apostrophe
20160410 21:42:01< celticminstrel> 10.7, prior to the existence of Cocoa notifications.
20160410 21:42:22< shadowm> Wut.
20160410 21:42:50< shadowm> Did OS X really not have a native desktop notifications mechanism before some recent version? Sigh.
20160410 21:43:01< celticminstrel> I think they appeared in 10.8 or 10.9.
20160410 21:43:50< shadowm> Oh well, never mind then.
20160410 21:44:14< celticminstrel> Sorry. I'm sure either ancestral or mattsc could do it though.
20160410 21:44:16< shadowm> vultraz might hate you for that, though.
20160410 21:44:21< celticminstrel> Why?
20160410 21:44:27< shadowm> He hates people who don't run the latest and buggiest software.
20160410 21:44:36< celticminstrel> Pffft.
20160410 21:44:58< celticminstrel> But it's not like I'm on 10.7 because I don't want to upgrade. I can't upgrade, and I can't afford a new Mac.
20160410 21:45:38-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 21:46:23< Dugi> zookeeper: Okay, removed the apostrophes. When you say that you're not sure if that's an improvement, see that there are no ridiculously long names. And if you find some, you can easily remove it. The whole idea was not about improving names, but giving more control over them.
20160410 21:46:30< shadowm> ancestral: If you are not going to fix the Cocoa notifications bug in the version info dialog you should file a bug.
20160410 21:46:51< ancestral> Good point, I should file one anyway
20160410 21:46:56< ancestral> Even if I do fix it
20160410 21:47:05< shadowm> Preferably quoting me to save the next poor soul 5 minutes of research.
20160410 21:47:26-!- wedge010 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 21:47:28< ancestral> I’ll do it later tonight as I have pressing work to do
20160410 21:48:26-!- shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has left #wesnoth-dev ["toodles"]
20160410 21:50:10< zookeeper> Dugi, sure, that part's good
20160410 21:50:25-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20160410 21:50:25-!- wedge010 is now known as wedge009
20160410 21:51:54-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160410 21:51:59< Dugi> zookeeper: So the next problem were the patronyms of dwarves. I think they're a good idea. I would like the opinions of others about it.
20160410 21:58:23-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 21:59:48< celticminstrel> "Faanaallawiel" is pretty long.
20160410 22:00:36< celticminstrel> Also, "Mithra'wiien" has a double I, and an apostrophe; the latter at least seems weird for an elf, though I dunno, maybe there are others with apostrophes?
20160410 22:07:06< zookeeper> Dugi, it's a very noticeable change and (IIRC) no named dwarf anywhere has a name like that, and then the patronyms are all of the same form too and can make the name really long
20160410 22:08:12< Dugi> zookeeper: If the dwarf has a patronym, the name and the father's name are shorter, only from two syllables, compared for dwarves without patronyms who have names composed of three sylalbles.
20160410 22:14:54-!- irker868 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20160410 22:16:25< Dugi> Improved the names of male elves to correct the criticism: http://goo.gl/FSbz5X
20160410 22:16:51< celticminstrel> Just to clarify, what I mentioned a few minutes ago was the female elf names.
20160410 22:17:30< celticminstrel> Somehow these male elf names seem a bit weirder than the female ones...
20160410 22:17:54 * celticminstrel idly wonders if "Legolas" would be a possible output.
20160410 22:17:58< Dugi> New ones are weirder?
20160410 22:18:11< celticminstrel> No, I'm comparing male to female here, not new to old.
20160410 22:18:24< celticminstrel> So you can probably ignore it, unless someone else backs it up.
20160410 22:18:41< Dugi> Lenolas is possible.
20160410 22:20:08-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160410 22:20:32< Dugi> Legolas isn't because I used the letter g sparingly because it might make the names sound orcish.
20160410 22:20:54-!- ScegfOd [637f4b7c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.127.75.124] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 22:23:21< celticminstrel> Your grammar is pretty simplistic, I guess.
20160410 22:24:26< celticminstrel> I'm sure it would be possible to write a grammar for the phonosyntactic rules of a given language... though that's too general for picking gender-specific names, so you'd have to restrict it a bit. But that might also get quite a bit more complicated as well.
20160410 22:29:54< Dugi> Well, if some linguist wrote something, it could be far better. I seem to be tasked to make it just somewhat better than the original one was.
20160410 22:30:49-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV]
20160410 22:30:53< celticminstrel> I've an interest in linguistics, and have studied it a little, so I might improve the grammars at some point.
20160410 22:31:31< zookeeper> the system certainly looks fancy enough to do all sorts of great things with
20160410 22:32:06< celticminstrel> Will you be leaving your web implementation up after it's accepted? That may make it easier to experiment, though I'm also planning to add a Lua API to the generator which could also help in experimentation.
20160410 22:34:59< zookeeper> some kind of easy generator (as in, doesn't for example require restarting the game to test changes) would be very very very good to have, whether it's online or not.
20160410 22:48:19< Dugi> Improved names of female elves: http://goo.gl/vbgXAF
20160410 22:48:29< Dugi> I plan to keep that website online.
20160410 22:49:10< celticminstrel> I still think the apostrophe is a little weird, but I guess not necessarily bad.
20160410 22:49:42< Dugi> Apostrophes where?
20160410 22:52:26< Dugi> I have removed them from the names of female drakes, you don't like them even in elvish names?
20160410 22:53:05< celticminstrel> I'm not sure, they might be fine...
20160410 22:53:17< celticminstrel> It seems weird to me, but that might just be me.
20160410 22:53:56< celticminstrel> I haven't really looked at the pre-existing Markov list, nor am I able to easily conjure up names of female elves from Tolkien.
20160410 22:54:35< zookeeper> old ones don't seem to have them
20160410 22:57:06< Dugi> Okay, I'll remove them.
20160410 22:57:45< zookeeper> and i get rather... strange ones like Pa-fikea, Vep-arthien, Roli-dë and Div-iwi
20160410 22:57:50< celticminstrel> Elvish names should really flow, so apostrophes are a bit disruptive.
20160410 22:58:30< Dugi> Maybe the - sign could be removed from them too.
20160410 22:58:49< celticminstrel> Actually, even hyphens can be... though I think leaving some possibility of hyphens isn't a problem.
20160410 22:59:03< celticminstrel> I think hyphens shouldn't be preceded or followed by just a single syllable, at least.
20160410 22:59:15< celticminstrel> If you prefer to remove them, that's fine too.
20160410 22:59:34< celticminstrel> Hmm, I wonder if we really need é... I guess it doesn't really matter.
20160410 22:59:56< celticminstrel> Oh, you've got others with acute accents too. Meh. Forget I said anything.
20160410 23:01:25< zookeeper> the main problem i see when browsing the list of generated old elvish female names is that i'm pretty sure every elf would have at least one close relative named Bel, Cel or Del :p otherwise they tend to flow well, even if they're often long
20160410 23:02:15< Dugi> Removed the hyphens: http://goo.gl/OessYM
20160410 23:02:27< Dugi> Bel, Cel, Del look more like accidents to me.
20160410 23:02:42< celticminstrel> Regarding length, I'd think wose should definitely be longer than elvish names. Assuming you want woses to evoke the ents of Tolkien, at least; maybe this is not desirable.
20160410 23:03:33< Dugi> Now again, should I remove the patronyms from dwarves?
20160410 23:03:44< celticminstrel> "Cel" should definitely be a possible portion of a name, at least. It probably is already in your grammar - I see "Cërartha", so substituting an L for that R is probably still within the grammar.
20160410 23:04:01< Dugi> It can be a part, but names so short can't be.
20160410 23:04:01< celticminstrel> And maybe e instead of ë as well.
20160410 23:04:33< celticminstrel> I don't really mind monosyllabic elven names, but I don't feel they're important either.
20160410 23:06:30< zookeeper> Dugi, yeah, i'm not really comfortable with the patronyms unless i get a year to ruminate on it
20160410 23:11:31-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160410 23:11:37-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160410 23:14:55< zookeeper> Dugi, also it looks like the PR splits some mermen and naga markov strings onto multiple lines for some reason
20160410 23:21:09< zookeeper> so, the main sticking point left seems to be the human names
20160410 23:21:23< zookeeper> of course, nothing forces us to make all races use the new generator
20160410 23:22:15< celticminstrel> I mentioned that before too, but Dugi apparently decided to apply it to all of them.
20160410 23:22:21< zookeeper> if a particular generator is problematic, then it can be worked on separately after the fact
20160410 23:22:42< Dugi> I did not get that you weren't asking me to convert them all.
20160410 23:24:05< Dugi> Okay, new humans, now more like the old ones: http://goo.gl/iROXLW
20160410 23:24:19< celticminstrel> I wasn't specifically asking you not to convert them all.
20160410 23:24:55< zookeeper> looks more familiar all right
20160410 23:24:55< celticminstrel> Looks okay to me, for male names.
20160410 23:25:17< zookeeper> but i'm off for tonight, i'll do a closer comparison tomorrow + will read the logs...
20160410 23:25:53< Dugi> There was a mistake, small correction: http://goo.gl/0NxruD
20160410 23:27:04< celticminstrel> Since they are kinda Welsh-like, it may help to treat W as a vowel.
20160410 23:27:13< celticminstrel> Just a thought.
20160410 23:27:44< celticminstrel> Not entirely sure if it actually would help, honestly.
20160410 23:28:19< Dugi> Dwarves without patronyms: http://goo.gl/Z1ZYSk
20160410 23:28:39< celticminstrel> "Gwaetharnyc" - Really long, but not bad.
20160410 23:28:48< Dugi> Dunno, if w was a vowel it would create odd combinations like Carwryn.
20160410 23:29:04< celticminstrel> That doesn't actually seem very odd to me.
20160410 23:29:21< Dugi> Three syllables, that's the maximum. They just happen to be long.
20160410 23:29:34-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20160410 23:29:35< celticminstrel> Yeah, that looks like three syllables.
20160410 23:31:36< Dugi> The naga and merfolk splitting was my fault, corrected it.
20160410 23:31:57< Dugi> I will update the commit so that you could look at it closer, then I'll go too.
20160410 23:33:38< Dugi> Updated, I will go soon.
20160410 23:41:35< Dugi> Bye.
20160410 23:41:37-!- Dugi [93fbd396@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.251.211.150] has quit []
--- Log closed Mon Apr 11 00:00:02 2016