--- Log opened Wed Apr 27 00:00:14 2016
--- Day changed Wed Apr 27 2016
20160427 00:00:14< gfgtdf> i isually set PREFERENCES_DIR to .\userdata like it was previously. This is mostly for beeing faster at navigating from the wesnoth data directly to the userdata directory.
20160427 00:00:55< SigurdFD> how do you set that on windows? something with MSVC?
20160427 00:01:36< gfgtdf> SigurdFD: i just set the PREFERENCES_DIR  macro in the msvcc project settings. Don't relly know how it works on other cpompilers.
20160427 00:02:49< SigurdFD> I'm wondering if it would be easy to add it to scons.
20160427 00:04:15< gfgtdf> SigurdFD: loonycyborg might know, maybe its as easy as moving it out of the 'if not win32 ' but its also possibl that it isn't
20160427 00:05:05< loonycyborg> I don't remember why exactly is prefsdir disabled on windows
20160427 00:05:29< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: mostlikeley becasue it had no effect at lest on wesnoth 1.2
20160427 00:05:33< gfgtdf> least*
20160427 00:05:43< SigurdFD> I think I'll try removing that now.
20160427 00:06:02< gfgtdf> had before
20160427 00:06:07< shadowm> gfgtdf: *1.12
20160427 00:06:21< gfgtdf> shadowm: yes
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20160427 00:09:36< shadowm> You know, you can create symbolic links on Windows.
20160427 00:10:14< shadowm> The initial set-up is a bit involved but it's not impossible by any means.
20160427 00:10:24< SigurdFD> gfgtdf: where's that 'if not win32
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20160427 00:11:01< gfgtdf> SigurdFD: i think this https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/SConscript#L47
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20160427 00:11:39< SigurdFD> ok, thanks
20160427 00:12:34< shadowm> But it's always mystified me seeing people on Windows resorting to fly-meets-nuke solutions because they couldn't dig a little deeper.
20160427 00:14:16< shadowm> Especially because that becomes fuel for Windows haters who don't know better.
20160427 00:14:31< SigurdFD> shadowm: am I included in that? am I missing something? (which seems likely)
20160427 00:14:52< shadowm> No, not really, primarily because I don't know or need to know what OS you use.
20160427 00:16:03< loonycyborg> ok firstly I remember some problems escaping " on windows, that may be one of reason prefsdir isn't used there
20160427 00:16:57< loonycyborg> secondly the defaults that code generates wouldn't be suitable on windows
20160427 00:17:58< loonycyborg> or not
20160427 00:19:07< loonycyborg> by default it won't pass any define at least for prefsdir
20160427 00:19:16< loonycyborg> so that's sensible
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20160427 00:21:07< loonycyborg> SigurdFD: hmm there's also default_prefs_file option
20160427 00:21:20< loonycyborg> and it's not in a code block that excludes windows
20160427 00:21:26< SigurdFD> ? where's that at
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20160427 00:22:24< loonycyborg> in scons
20160427 00:22:47< loonycyborg> it's right after prefsdir block
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20160427 00:23:18< loonycyborg> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/SConscript#L58
20160427 00:25:08< SigurdFD> hmmm...It sounds like that would just cover the indiviual preference file in the userdata dir
20160427 00:26:15< SigurdFD> anyway, I'll know if the change gfgtdf mentioned works or not within 30 minutes
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20160427 00:29:34< fabi> hi
20160427 00:29:49< loonycyborg> hi :P
20160427 00:32:23-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e3637c6.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 45.0.2/20160407164938]]
20160427 00:32:30< loonycyborg> anyway, I'm off to sleep
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20160427 01:13:50< CptCloony> Hello! I have enjoyed playing Wesnoth very much and wish to make my first contribution ever to it. I'm considering tackling the "add a concede button" on the EasyCoding page, but any other suggestions would be appreciated.
20160427 01:14:58< pydsigner> I'm curious now if that should actually have been on the EasyCoding page
20160427 01:15:12< pydsigner> Unless all the infrastructure already exists....
20160427 01:18:06< CptCloony> I sure hope it does! I don't know enough yet to assess the difficulty of any additions or bugfix requests.
20160427 01:35:44< SigurdFD> pydsigner, CptCloony: note there is a pull request that has attempted the concede button. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/535 I don't know what's going on with it.
20160427 01:37:08< CptCloony> Thanks. that's ok, I have not actually begun on anything yet. Would you be able to recommend any beginner projects in the bug tracker?
20160427 01:37:35< SigurdFD> loonycyborg, gfgtdf: the change I tested to src/SConscript threw errors.
20160427 01:39:41< SigurdFD> CptCloony: if you're looking to do C++ stuff, I don't know enough to recommend anything in that area.
20160427 01:41:17< CptCloony> I am most familiar with c++ but I am willing to learn wml or other languages!
20160427 01:50:17< Aginor> I'm at work now, but I will be home in ~7h, I'm happy to give input then as well
20160427 01:50:32< Aginor> there's plenty of c++ things to do, of varying difficulty
20160427 01:50:40< Aginor> and hi CptCloony :)
20160427 02:04:46< CptCloony> Hello Aginor :) I'll be sleeping in 7h, and in class soon after :(. I could try to be available though! I made a huge mistake procrastinating and need to contribute to an open source project in a few days :/ so I am willing to miss some sleep.
20160427 02:05:31< fabi> CptCloony: Contributing to a open source project is part of your homework?
20160427 02:07:13< CptCloony> Yes! The class is all about open source, licensing, using github, etc.
20160427 02:07:23< fabi> cool
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20160427 02:15:58< Aginor> interesting
20160427 02:16:10< Aginor> CptCloony: are you a uni student?
20160427 02:19:09< CptCloony> College. I still don't know what the difference is.
20160427 02:19:54< Aginor> it depends on the country :)
20160427 02:20:34< Aginor> http://grammarist.com/usage/college-university/
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20160427 02:24:03< pydsigner> Sounds like an awesome school...
20160427 02:24:15< CptCloony> Ah, I see! In America there is no strict definition. I'm working on a degree in computer science and innovation.
20160427 02:24:33< Aginor> whereas I'm in a country using Brittish English :D
20160427 02:33:39< CptCloony> adding a "color attribute for [message]" sounds simpleish, though I say that without actually knowing anything about it.
20160427 02:33:51< Aginor> there's a PR for that right now
20160427 02:35:29< CptCloony> Darn! I assumed it would be free, or am I reading the bug log wrong? I assumed that it would be free since there is nothing under the "assigned to collumn."
20160427 02:36:58< CptCloony> Ok, so am going to look at the pull requests before I get my hopes up again :P
20160427 02:37:10< pydsigner> CptCloony: In the US I'd say that a university is a collection of colleges, i.e. it'll have a "college of engineering", instead of just an "engineering program"
20160427 02:42:00< CptCloony> I just noticed that some of the names are highlighted in red rather than black. Is that because they mentioned CptCloony in the message?
20160427 02:42:17< fabi> CptCloony: yes
20160427 02:42:43< fabi> CptCloony: Also note that you can use tab completion onto the names.
20160427 02:50:40< pydsigner> Does webchat support that?
20160427 02:51:21< fabi> Well, most clients do. No idea about webchat.
20160427 02:51:51< fabi> Sounds like a web frontend. Maybe you want to use a real client.
20160427 02:52:06< pydsigner> I'm not using webchat, but CptCloony is.
20160427 02:52:17< pydsigner> "b8ab9b5a@gateway/web/freenode/"
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20160427 02:55:00< shadowm2819> pydsigner: Yes.
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20160427 02:55:47< pydsigner> Good to know.
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20160427 09:03:33< Aginor> hey
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20160427 09:24:05< Aginor> and he disappeared before I noticed
20160427 09:24:09< Aginor> the irony
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20160427 11:03:34< fabi_> hi
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20160427 11:12:16< Aginor> hi fabi_ 
20160427 11:12:32< fabi_> hi Aginor
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20160427 12:36:56< Nobun> loonycyborg: I updated wmlxgettext with the new (experimental) support for translatable strings with _ << WML markers >>
20160427 12:37:16< Nobun> but the update is in the experimental branch... it is untested
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20160427 12:55:40< celticminstrel> Sounds good, I guess.
20160427 12:57:16< Nobun> hi celticminstrel :)
20160427 12:57:58< celticminstrel> Hi.
20160427 12:58:11< Nobun> I think there can be possible problems (untested, but I am almost sure about them) on this addition... I wrote them in the comments on the new WmlStr02 state
20160427 12:58:49< Nobun> basicly I cannot figure a way to extend a workaround also to the _ << >> case
20160427 12:58:57< Nobun> without introducing bugs
20160427 12:59:51< Nobun> so currently if you use _ << >> under a parameter that usually you'd expect it would be added to automated comment, the string will be captured, but the parameter will not added in the translator comment
20160427 13:00:50< Nobun> I would suggest to modify names.cfg and put some additional #po: <translator info> to instruct translator about what they are translating in names.cfg
20160427 13:01:50< Nobun> since it is a very minor change (wich will not modify the actual code) I could add those #po comments and put a pull request, if you agree
20160427 13:02:06< celticminstrel> Hmm.
20160427 13:02:35< celticminstrel> If you don't mind, I think I'd prefer to add the comments myself, but it's a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion.
20160427 13:02:52< Nobun> celticminstrel: no problem for me
20160427 13:03:36< Nobun> take mind (this is only valid if you will actually switch to my wmlxgettext) you could also use #po-override: instead of #po:
20160427 13:03:46< Nobun> a thing like
20160427 13:08:10< Nobun> #po: [Name Generator]: Drake female name generator
20160427 13:08:18< Nobun> before the string itself and so on
20160427 13:09:42< celticminstrel> If I want multiple lines they must all begin with po:, right?
20160427 13:10:23< Nobun> exactly... #po: each line
20160427 13:10:38< Nobun> exactly as perl wmlxgettext
20160427 13:11:15< Nobun> if you plan to use #po-override, instead, you cannot use multiple line... so perhaps #po: additionalinfo could be the best choice
20160427 13:11:37< celticminstrel> Yeah, probably.
20160427 13:12:15< Nobun> (this is becouse po-override replace completely what would be obtained automaticly
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20160427 13:12:41< Nobun> another alternative is to use #po-override: for the first line and #po: for the following lines
20160427 13:13:29< Nobun> (in this way you can avoid that automatic infos will be added at all for that strings... but this will work only on my wmlxgettext... po-override is not supported on perl wmlxgettext)
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20160427 13:33:02< Nobun> see you later... let me know if the experimental support for _ << >> work or not
20160427 13:33:14< Nobun> (if you have time to test it)
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20160427 13:40:26< gfgtdf> does anyone know when theere was teh most recent discussion about splitting the repo ?
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20160427 13:46:29< gfgtdf> Ivanovic: woudl splitting the trasnlations toa  seperate repo be a problem for you?
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20160427 15:04:34< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: And how would you handle those two repos? submodules?
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20160427 15:07:48< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: hmm my intention was actuall to have just 2 repos without technical connection, so that po is added to to gitignore for the main repo
20160427 15:08:42< loonycyborg> then if you checkout wesnoth repo you end up without nls support
20160427 15:09:20< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: hmm yes, but i think most devepolers dont need it for eveloping anyways and other people dont chakc out the repo
20160427 15:09:21< loonycyborg> because build needs to find po files in po/ to run msgfmton them
20160427 15:10:22< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: the main intention here is to decreade repo download size/time.
20160427 15:10:35< gfgtdf> decrease*
20160427 15:11:11< loonycyborg> we could move the po/ dir in separate repo and get it with git submodules, but
20160427 15:11:31< loonycyborg> it makes things more complex
20160427 15:11:54< loonycyborg> one thing I disliked about submodules is that they alter standard workflow
20160427 15:12:03< loonycyborg> need different commands
20160427 15:12:27< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: if using submodules imples that the trasnlatiosn are dowanloded automatically when wesnoth is downloaded this sounds like it woudl go agsint the intention of decreasing download size.
20160427 15:12:50< loonycyborg> it won't be
20160427 15:13:01< loonycyborg> by default submodules aren't downloaded
20160427 15:13:16< loonycyborg> git clone won't get them
20160427 15:13:52< loonycyborg> that's the most obvious difference from svn externals
20160427 15:15:27< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: are there disadtangated of using submodules i mean when you have a submpdules can you also treat them like 2 normal repos ?
20160427 15:16:06< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: disadvantages over 2 unrelated repos i meant
20160427 15:16:21< loonycyborg> I'm not sure
20160427 15:17:07< loonycyborg> I've googled about submodules in the past but forgot most details already
20160427 15:17:40< loonycyborg> people don't seem to like them much generally but some projects use them heavily
20160427 15:17:46< loonycyborg> like Qt for example
20160427 15:20:03< loonycyborg> but as far as submodules are concerned repos still remain separate
20160427 15:20:26< loonycyborg> just one repo references particular commit from other repo
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20160427 15:22:07< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: would be using diffrent repors would be a problem for you as the packager?
20160427 15:22:42< loonycyborg> it wouldn't be if tortoisegit supports them
20160427 15:22:52< loonycyborg> I'm not sure if it does
20160427 15:23:13< loonycyborg> need to check
20160427 15:23:47< loonycyborg> seems it does
20160427 15:43:11< loonycyborg> zookeeper: data/core/units/monsters/Yeti.cfg contains some non-ascii char that makes both perl and python wmlxgettext barf
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20160427 15:44:58< loonycyborg> your commit there seems to have added a character that looks like <97> in my editors
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20160427 15:51:56< zookeeper> loonycyborg, right, i'll look...
20160427 15:52:35< zookeeper> oh yeah, i forgot to consider encodings when i was copypasting stuff
20160427 15:54:48< zookeeper> not to mention the correct kind of apostrophe-like-things
20160427 15:58:11< celticminstrel> [Apr 27@11:07:48am] gfgtdf: loonycyborg: hmm my intention was actuall to have just 2 repos without technical connection, so that po is added to to gitignore for the main repo
20160427 15:58:12< celticminstrel> That's a terrible idea.
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20160427 15:58:24< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: why ?
20160427 15:58:49< celticminstrel> Because it means that you can't check out the entire game in the same directory.
20160427 15:59:14< celticminstrel> If they share the same root, at least.
20160427 15:59:51< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm you can then have the translations repo in the diewctoy that is ignored by teh main repo
20160427 15:59:57< celticminstrel> I suppose it could be made to work if the translation's root is a subdirectory, but I think if you want that then submodules might be the better option.
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20160427 16:00:40< celticminstrel> Translations are one thing for which submodules are probably acceptable, as devs can generally do without downloading them.
20160427 16:00:57< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: well i suggested that mainly becasue i didn't know how submodules work. 
20160427 16:01:10< celticminstrel> It would mean that preparation for a release requires updating the submodule reference.
20160427 16:01:40< celticminstrel> Lke loonycyborg said, a submodule references a specific commit from another repository.
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20160427 16:04:31< irker781> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master c876280a9515 / data/core/units/monsters/ (Mudcrawler.cfg Yeti.cfg): Special character fixes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c876280a9515406528596de132d3b9626e22a0ba
20160427 16:04:52< zookeeper> loonycyborg, i think that should do it
20160427 16:05:54< loonycyborg> cool ty
20160427 16:06:11< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: you sue its not possible to set it to remote master head ?
20160427 16:06:56< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: well in any case loonycyborg said it woudl be a problem for packagers
20160427 16:07:11< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: or lat lest for him.
20160427 16:07:13< loonycyborg> I did?
20160427 16:07:31< gfgtdf> wouldn't, my mistake
20160427 16:07:57< celticminstrel> I don't know of any way to create an auto-updating submodule.
20160427 16:08:14< gfgtdf> "it wouldn't be if tortoisegit supports them", "seems it does"
20160427 16:08:24< celticminstrel> But I can't confirm that it's ompossible, either.
20160427 16:08:25< loonycyborg> manual command would update it though
20160427 16:08:36< celticminstrel> ^impossible
20160427 16:08:55< loonycyborg> git submodule foreach 'update' or something like that
20160427 16:09:42< loonycyborg> I think there are workflows to both track masters and track fixed commits
20160427 16:09:56< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: the probem that is tried to be fixed is the large git clone download size which migth discourage new devs, as meantioned in https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&p=596578#p596578 
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20160427 16:10:40< loonycyborg> most of bulk of the download is artwork
20160427 16:10:55< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: It's impossible to fix that.
20160427 16:11:11< celticminstrel> Except by truncating history or something.
20160427 16:11:19< loonycyborg> you simply HAVE to deal huge downloads if you contribute to games that are heavy on graphis
20160427 16:11:21< celticminstrel> But you could recommend that people do a shallow clone, or something.
20160427 16:11:38< loonycyborg> *graphics
20160427 16:11:43< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes changign history on sone way was the intention.
20160427 16:11:49< celticminstrel> Sure you could put the graphics in a separate repo and reference it with a submodule, but that does absolutely nothing to actually solve the issue.
20160427 16:12:01< celticminstrel> Because they still need to download that separate repo anyway.
20160427 16:12:22< celticminstrel> So there's no advantage to doing such a thing.
20160427 16:12:23< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: accoring to that ist the po directoy is 279M  and the'music' dorectoy is 100MB whcih are both rather easy to move toa  seperate repo and not necceary needed to develop wesnoth things.
20160427 16:12:33< celticminstrel> With translations, a submodule could be fine, because they're optional.
20160427 16:13:01< celticminstrel> I suppose the music could be considered optional, though I'd be against that as well.
20160427 16:13:25< loonycyborg> but would 279M save help if whole repo download will be about 1-2Gb anyway?
20160427 16:14:42< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: the repo without history seems to be < 700mb. I dotn know how much of the histpry is music or translations one woudl need to test that.
20160427 16:15:20< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: the main part of the download size if sureley the history.
20160427 16:15:34< celticminstrel> Like I said, moving non-optional portions to a separate repo won't really help with the size.
20160427 16:16:02< loonycyborg> yup, so you'll expect people to use shallow clones?
20160427 16:16:09< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes that why i only suggested to move music+translations.
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20160427 16:17:08< celticminstrel> It doesn't sound like that would actually help much though.
20160427 16:17:14< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: no, my intention was  to rewirte history+force push to master to move those file 'completeley' to a new branch.
20160427 16:17:15< celticminstrel> Still, I'm not against moving the translations.
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20160427 16:24:46< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: I don't like this idea much. Our last history rewriting project didn't get completed 
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20160427 16:25:40< celticminstrel> I'm not particularly for or against it really.
20160427 16:26:04< celticminstrel> But like I said, I think it wouldn't really help much.
20160427 16:26:23< celticminstrel> Maybe it would be better to simply suggest that people do a shallow clone, and update the wiki or whatever with information on how to do that.
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20160427 16:27:54< zookeeper> well has someone verified that it's indeed impossible to locally just, like, shallow-clone a part of the repo or something?
20160427 16:29:03< Ravana_> I just noticed :inspect shows events
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20160427 16:33:39< zookeeper> Ravana_, it does and it's great
20160427 16:34:07< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: hmm you can rive me  alink to that discussion?
20160427 16:35:05< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm i don't know, i remember hearing that shallow clones have somehow limitations and that some peoble had problems with them butmaybe its just those people just used them wrong
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20160427 16:36:29< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: this was esr's project to fix repo's history that didn't get completed, I don't know details,maybe shadowm remembers
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20160427 16:39:15< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9330 (master - c876280 : ln-zookeeper): The build has errored.
20160427 16:39:15< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/126146398
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20160427 16:39:38< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i think doing things like "git pull -someoptions"  or "git rebase -i" are normal git operatiosn taht you want as a dev, and since it seems like shallow clones didnt even support nomral push/pull i um unsure wheterh they suport them
20160427 16:40:16< celticminstrel> Shallow clones don't support push/pull?
20160427 16:40:36< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: they didnt until recently (~2014 i think)
20160427 16:40:55< celticminstrel> Oh.
20160427 16:41:15< celticminstrel> It's possible to convert a checked-out repo from/to a shallow clone if necessary. (Though converting it to one isn't easy.)
20160427 16:42:41< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: unrelated: are thery any thign todo on your asiowesnothd execpt implementing send_data_sides ?
20160427 16:43:39< zookeeper> it would certainly be interesting to see a list of how much space each directory's _history_ takes.
20160427 16:44:11< gfgtdf> zookeeper: yes indeed.
20160427 16:45:01< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: I think there still are parts that aren't done yet
20160427 16:46:00< loonycyborg> particularly I'll need to thoroughly test admin commands and user handler
20160427 16:46:29< zookeeper> gfgtdf, well, maybe there's existing repo analyzer tools that could do it if someone wants to find out?
20160427 16:49:14< Soliton> the only way to do that would be to rewrite history without that dir and compare the resulting size. since cutting a dir out of history is not something an automated tool can do i doubt there exists one.
20160427 17:00:04< celticminstrel> I've done it.
20160427 17:00:10< celticminstrel> Cutting a directory out of history.
20160427 17:00:28< celticminstrel> It's nontrivial, mind you, but it can be done with git filter-branch.
20160427 17:00:35< celticminstrel> Oh, wait, maybe it was trivial?
20160427 17:00:46< celticminstrel> I don't think it was super-hard, at least.
20160427 17:01:18< Soliton> what does it do with commits that touch several dirs?
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20160427 17:12:18< celticminstrel> I think it would end up filtering changes to other dirs from that commit.
20160427 17:12:26< celticminstrel> The new directory also ended up as the root.
20160427 17:12:52< celticminstrel> I mean, the subdirectory became the root.
20160427 17:14:36< Soliton> so you're cutting out a dir as in only the dir remains? not everything but the dir remains?
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20160427 17:16:25< Ivanovic> gfgtdf: such a split would probably annoy me after a short time
20160427 17:16:35< Ivanovic> since i have to make sure that the po files actually compile before uploading
20160427 17:16:48< Ivanovic> plus maintaining the changelog will be hell as well
20160427 17:17:14< Ivanovic> (and I don't spend any time with the project these days besides running the scripts for committing every now and then
20160427 17:20:05< gfgtdf> Ivanovic: the script also does the changelog changes?
20160427 17:20:20< Ivanovic> no, i do that by hand
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20160427 17:22:57< gfgtdf> Ivanovic: hmm i thinkyou can still ahve the po files  at wesnothdir/po so i dont think part that does the compile check will change. Only the commit command might change.
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20160427 18:00:16< celticminstrel> Soliton: That's correct.
20160427 18:02:20< Soliton> the question was the other way around but for the algorithm it doesn't change much i guess.
20160427 18:04:06< Soliton> i guess it'll rewrite commits so moved code just appears as new afterwards.
20160427 18:04:56< Ivanovic> gfgtdf: but honestly, are the translations really such a huge factor in the download?
20160427 18:05:23< Ivanovic> and wouldn't we lose the history of the files if they were completely moved into a different repo?
20160427 18:05:28< Ivanovic> plus:
20160427 18:05:54< Ivanovic> how to make sure that both repos are really functional and that some coder is not breaking translations by accidents because they are not downloaded on their system?
20160427 18:07:04< Soliton> we have ci nowadays.
20160427 18:07:25< loonycyborg> ci builds translations
20160427 18:08:13< loonycyborg> but only a pot-update can detect errors like the one zookeeper just fixed :P
20160427 18:08:34< Soliton> i rather wonder what that mythical prospective wesnoth dev is that is just waiting for the wesnoth download size to drop to start contributing.
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20160427 18:13:31< Soliton> needs some basis to compare the value of attracting that prospective dev vs introducing more work for the existing ones.
20160427 18:14:30< gfgtdf> Ivanovic: I dont knwow ehterh tehy are big factor for doanlding, the intention is to test the size impvement and then decide  whether its worth but i don't think ti makes sense to bother testing the size of there are big other problems to bein with
20160427 18:15:00< zookeeper> well someone on the MP server likes the game:
20160427 18:15:09< zookeeper> Admin message: <redacted> maybe is naive, but thank you very much for this wonderful game.
20160427 18:15:42< gfgtdf> Ivanovic: just becasue people have the po files doanloaded it doesn menas they use or test  them, in partivual the msvc files which i and some other use offer no way to build trasnlation files afaik.
20160427 18:16:17< gfgtdf> s/ehterh/whether, s/doanlding/downloading
20160427 18:17:08< Nobun> gfgtdf: the python version of wmlxgettext is a step for making the pot creation easier to end-user
20160427 18:17:41< Nobun> becouse using python 3 would allow to implement it in the GUI.pyw 
20160427 18:17:59< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: do you know how well travis ci handles submodules ?
20160427 18:18:11< loonycyborg> hmm no idea
20160427 18:18:35< loonycyborg> I think it uses git commandto do the checkout
20160427 18:19:04< loonycyborg> Nobun: I got the root of that issue
20160427 18:19:35< loonycyborg> it seems that python wmlxgettext isn't case sensitive when comparing msgids
20160427 18:19:54< Nobun> it is case insensitive on purpose
20160427 18:20:01< loonycyborg> and if there are two strings differing onlyin case only one of them will be kept
20160427 18:20:12< loonycyborg> and one that has allsmall letters
20160427 18:20:45< loonycyborg> I'm not sure what is the implication of this for scenario creators and translators
20160427 18:20:53< celticminstrel> I think the Travis uses "git clone".
20160427 18:21:14< Nobun> yeah I made this choice since lower-upper case letters may differ, but the sentence is the same... seing the gettext documentation I thinked you would consider it as the same sentence
20160427 18:21:38< loonycyborg> well it doesn't apply to stringImailed you about
20160427 18:22:08< loonycyborg> DM has two messages showing delfador opening eyes
20160427 18:22:11< Nobun> loonycyborg: did you send me a PM? I will take it a look
20160427 18:22:14< loonycyborg> "o o"
20160427 18:22:17< loonycyborg> "O O"
20160427 18:22:24< zookeeper> oh yeah it still has that
20160427 18:22:25< celticminstrel> I think it's probably better to be case sensitive. It's true that case generally doesn't matter, but a) If it's the same string, you want the case to be consistent anyway, and b) There are rare cases where case does make a difference.
20160427 18:22:50< celticminstrel> So, what I'd recommend is to be case sensitive, but warn if there are strings differing only in case.
20160427 18:23:25< Nobun> no problem for changing from case sensitive to case insensitive (need only to remove re.I from regex)
20160427 18:23:31< Nobun> or better
20160427 18:23:43< Nobun> leaving the key without downcase in dictionary
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20160427 18:24:04< Nobun> from case insensitive to case sensitive, sorry *
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20160427 18:24:59< Nobun> celticminstrel: adding warning could be, instead, a problem
20160427 18:25:11< Nobun> the sentences are collected in dictionary
20160427 18:25:23< Nobun> for performance
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20160427 18:25:57< Nobun> if I keep out case insensitivness, all sentences wich will differ only on letter case will be parsed as different sentences
20160427 18:26:45< Nobun> so to check if there are same sentences I would need to iterate across all the dictionary for all keys stored inside... it could be a lot of time consuming
20160427 18:27:07< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: did you test how the new wesnothd perofrms compared to the old one ?
20160427 18:27:24< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: you mean under load?
20160427 18:27:43< loonycyborg> Nope, I would need somekind of  test harness for that
20160427 18:28:49< loonycyborg> I tested it with 2 clients but for useful performance test would need a lot more clients than that
20160427 18:30:33< Nobun> celticminstrel, loonycyborg: So... should I procede to make the sentence addition as case sensitive in both master and experimental branch?
20160427 18:30:55< loonycyborg> I'm leaning yes
20160427 18:31:03< celticminstrel> You mean the warning?
20160427 18:31:26< loonycyborg> he said making warning is hard
20160427 18:31:42< Nobun> more than hard... it is time consuming
20160427 18:31:55< Nobun> it risk to slow down very much the pot creation
20160427 18:32:59 * celticminstrel isn't sure what you meant by "the sentence addition".
20160427 18:33:02< Nobun> since it would require an extra iteration inside all the dictionary, analyzing one-by-one all sentences stored there to search if there are corrispnding sentences "duplicated"
20160427 18:33:03< celticminstrel> ...oh wait.
20160427 18:33:16< celticminstrel> I misread or skipped some words or something.
20160427 18:33:35< Nobun> celticminstrel: perhaps it is my fault: I said two different things
20160427 18:33:43< celticminstrel> Yes, I'd lean towards making it case-sensitive. A warning would be nice, but I understand why it would be hard, so you don't need to worry about that.
20160427 18:33:56< Nobun> ok 
20160427 18:34:24< Nobun> I will procede to add case sentive capture sentences than
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20160427 18:38:39< Nobun> loonycyborg: sorry... I noticed I forgot to push the experimental support for _ << >> on the online repository
20160427 18:38:57< Nobun> I pushed now
20160427 18:39:06< loonycyborg> I'm not the one who was asking about it anyway :P
20160427 18:39:24< celticminstrel> Maybe I can get around to testing it later today.
20160427 18:39:25< Nobun> yeah... but you are my favourite tester :P
20160427 18:39:50< celticminstrel> I don't think I've actually tested it even once.
20160427 18:39:57< Nobun> celticminstrel: perhaps later I will do some test too... until now the code is untested
20160427 18:40:07 * celticminstrel nod.
20160427 18:40:16< celticminstrel> Also need to get around to the po-notes.
20160427 18:40:29< Nobun> lol :)
20160427 18:40:58< celticminstrel> Even if it wasn't for that bug(?) you mentioned (something about auto-info not being applied?), I think those might need further explanation.
20160427 18:41:16< celticminstrel> It's kind of a pity that I can't use macros for comments. :P
20160427 18:42:32< Nobun> celticminstrel: it is hard to explain... I tried to explain in the pywmlx/state/wml_states.py in the comment before the WmlStr02 class
20160427 18:42:52< Nobun> but I am not sure it is what is the issue
20160427 18:43:41< celticminstrel> Even if the name generator were changed so that the grammars could use quotes, I think further explanation might be required.
20160427 18:46:32< Nobun> I will try to explain
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20160427 18:46:43< Nobun> hoping I can be enough clear
20160427 18:49:15 * Nobun is searching on his online source doc documentation... he is sure he has already written about the workaround, so he can than explain better the issue he was talking about before...
20160427 18:50:37< Nobun> ok found. The explaination is actually short, but I can start from there to explain the issue
20160427 18:50:44< Nobun> http://wmlxgettext-unoff.readthedocs.org/en/latest/srcdoc/regexes.html
20160427 18:51:08< Nobun> at the end of paragraph 6.1.6 there is a note
20160427 18:51:40< Nobun> now I try to explain better
20160427 18:51:45< celticminstrel> I wouldn't call those paragraphs, by the way.
20160427 18:52:02< Nobun> sorry for my bad english than... my english is a bit limited :P
20160427 18:52:05< Nobun> however
20160427 18:52:28< celticminstrel> Section 6.1.6. :)
20160427 18:52:47< Nobun> the parser I provided use a state machine, as you already know
20160427 18:53:00< Nobun> when a line like
20160427 18:53:09< Nobun> name = _ "translatable name"
20160427 18:53:46< Nobun> is found, a possible problem is faced since the "capture string" and "capture wmlinfos" conflicts each other
20160427 18:54:10< Nobun> so I did a workaround that allowed me to capture the translatable string and to remember that the parameter name was used
20160427 18:54:34< Nobun> that workaround is not extended to the case where translatable string is _ << >>
20160427 18:54:42< Nobun> for example
20160427 18:55:08< Nobun> [unit] name = _ "Delfador" [/unit]
20160427 18:55:35< Nobun> the pot will have "Delfador" script, and the translation comment will add [unit]: name=Delfador
20160427 18:56:01< celticminstrel> Huh.
20160427 18:56:02< Nobun> but this will not happen if you will use _ << Delfador >>
20160427 18:56:20< celticminstrel> Well, it doesn't seem necessary to extend that to _ << Delfador >> ...
20160427 18:56:58< Nobun> in that case the Delfador translatable string will be captured, but the comment information for translator will be, for example [unit] but without remembering that name was parsed
20160427 18:57:41< celticminstrel> I wouldn't expect _<<>> to be used anywhere where you'd want to capture the content of that string as part of the translation info.
20160427 18:57:50< Nobun> becouse name and _ << >> are in the same line, and the workaround I mentioned works only for translatable "standard" translatable string _ "like this"
20160427 18:57:56< celticminstrel> Translator's info? Whatever.
20160427 18:58:20< Nobun> I make a pastebin example... perhaps I will be more clear
20160427 19:01:24< Nobun> celticminstrel: I hope that this example explain better the issue
20160427 19:01:25< Nobun> http://pastebin.com/h6J4LvkJ
20160427 19:01:46 * celticminstrel nods.
20160427 19:01:52< celticminstrel> I don't think that'll be a problem.
20160427 19:03:15< Nobun> perhaps but I wanted to warn you about it ;)
20160427 19:03:27< celticminstrel> 'kay
20160427 19:03:59< Nobun> I actually didn't test it, but I am sure that the "wmlinfo" will be lost as showed in the example
20160427 19:04:23< Nobun> (since the workaround wasn't extended on purpose... to avoid possible bugs)
20160427 19:04:29< celticminstrel> I don't think it's worth testing it. :)
20160427 19:04:34< Nobun> :)
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20160427 19:05:23< Nobun> yeah but I am sure since the logic of the state sequence (the WmlStr02 is evalued before both WmlStr01 and WmlGetInfState)
20160427 19:05:41< Nobun> s/since/due to
20160427 19:07:09< Nobun> however... as soon I will have a bit of time I will test the experimental support for _ << >> too... until now I mark I dind't test it at all
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20160427 19:09:48< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm i tried to runa git filter-branch isn it just terribly slow even on aller repos. the strange thing is that it however had a negeltible cpu and io usage.
20160427 19:09:55< gfgtdf> smaller*
20160427 19:10:29< celticminstrel> Is it slow? I don't remember. I only did it once.
20160427 19:10:50< celticminstrel> I guess it makes sense though. It basically runs through every commit and reapplies it, possibly with changes.
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20160427 19:20:37< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm this indeed some liek an iffective way to do it, i'll seach for external tools
20160427 19:21:18< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Sorry, what?
20160427 19:21:46< celticminstrel> You're still talking about splitting out the translations?
20160427 19:21:52< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes
20160427 19:22:08< celticminstrel> I'm actually curious how large they are when you include all the history...
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20160427 19:22:40< celticminstrel> But I doubt they'd be that much larger.
20160427 19:23:09< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes i'm trying to find out
20160427 19:26:33< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/119210.png
20160427 19:27:13< celticminstrel> Somehow that looks too short.
20160427 19:27:17< shadowm> A list of people who have authored commits since January 1st 2015, according to `git log --all --since=2015-01-01 --format=format:'%<|(32)%aN%aE' | sort -u`.
20160427 19:27:30< celticminstrel> Oh, only the past 2 years.
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20160427 19:29:09< shadowm> Note that for whatever reason there are multiple clones of mattsc, celticminstrel, ancestral, gfgtdf, some guy whose nickname is unknown to me, iceiceice, Elvish_Hunter, and Aginor.
20160427 19:29:18< shadowm> Oh, and a second guy I don't know.
20160427 19:29:32< celticminstrel> Ancestrala lso has two clones.
20160427 19:29:35< shadowm> Well, the reason is pretty obvious, multiple email addresses.
20160427 19:29:39< celticminstrel> Oh wait, you said that.
20160427 19:30:25< shadowm> And Soliton has a hyphen.
20160427 19:30:57< gfgtdf> shadowm: im my case the f492343 is used for commit that are not done with github webpageinterface becasue i somehow regierted different primary emails on local and on github
20160427 19:31:05< gfgtdf> commts*
20160427 19:31:24< shadowm> Hopefully you've fixed that since then.
20160427 19:31:52< celticminstrel> I get the impression that the web interface always uses a Github no-reply address though...
20160427 19:31:54< gfgtdf> shadowm: no i didnt. but does it matter in any case ?
20160427 19:32:04< shadowm> Yes, because it makes you look like a careless person.
20160427 19:32:05< celticminstrel> Based on ancestral's duplicate.
20160427 19:32:19< shadowm> In any case, maybe someone wants to update the .mailmap file.
20160427 19:32:32< shadowm> Oh wait, we don't have one.
20160427 19:32:39< shadowm> Maybe someone would like to create one then.
20160427 19:32:44< celticminstrel> What is this?
20160427 19:34:14< shadowm> https://git-scm.com/docs/git-shortlog -- "Mapping Authors" section.
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20160427 19:35:12< shadowm> I surely don't need to spell out the obvious implications of having such a file readily available. But then again, so is the repository history itself, and patch URLs.
20160427 19:36:35< Nobun> celticminstrel, loonycyborg: now the capture of the sentences (on the master branch) should be case-sensitive... must be tested, however
20160427 19:37:14< Nobun> the experimental branch (with the experimental support for _ << >> ) is still case-insensitive
20160427 19:37:56< celticminstrel> The format sounds somehow confusing.
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20160427 19:45:49< gfgtdf> k made a new emailadress daniel.gfgtdf@gmail ot be used there. lets see if it works
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20160427 19:46:47< irker749> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master f4d714d69097 / src/ (array.hpp attack_prediction.cpp): remove util::array https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f4d714d690973479d8d508d3a51ecac341075d8f
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20160427 20:17:43< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9332 (master - f4d714d : gfgtdf): The build has errored.
20160427 20:17:43< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/126201409
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20160427 20:49:22< zookeeper> SigurdFD, was there a reason to extend the mountains on the south edge to cover even the stretch of deep water between the shallow and swamp? because i'd think now it might restrict mermen movement quite a bit, and i just don't see a reason to take out the deep water too.
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20160427 21:04:35< SigurdFD> zookeeper: no reason, other than the deep water was part of the undead being there, and it made for a simple decision on editing the map.
20160427 21:05:25< zookeeper> oh, right, they were actually submerged in the deep water and not further south?
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20160427 21:06:36< SigurdFD> yes, they were in the deep water, and usually if someone moved to any of it, they would be next to the undead.
20160427 21:06:53< SigurdFD> and thus ambushed.
20160427 21:06:59< zookeeper> roger. makes sense then.
20160427 21:08:02< Dugi> zookeeper: Have you tested the WML feeding code I sent you? I have found a bad-luck-type error there.
20160427 21:08:19< celticminstrel> A what error?
20160427 21:08:50< Dugi> I wrote {VARIABLE_OP blablabla 1} instead of {VARIABLE_OP blablabla add 1}.
20160427 21:08:51< zookeeper> Dugi, https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/dba586ce53dd744bf4fbe2ae8a8847bb5c1c2849
20160427 21:09:00< zookeeper> basically i ended up rewriting it more or less completely
20160427 21:09:16< Dugi> zookeeper: Aha, so it did not get into the source. Good then.
20160427 21:09:26< Dugi> zookeeper: I was a bit concerned.
20160427 21:10:28< zookeeper> the code is very unusual though. mind seeing how long it takes for you to figure out how it works? :P
20160427 21:10:51< zookeeper> just in the sense of whether it's comprehensible enough
20160427 21:11:44< Dugi> I thought the comments were explanatory enough. But your version should be more readable.
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20160427 21:15:53< Aginor> morning
20160427 21:16:58< Dugi> It's 11 pm...
20160427 21:17:11< Aginor> I think submodules could work
20160427 21:17:43< celticminstrel> For translations only though, in my opinion.
20160427 21:17:51< celticminstrel> (Well, they'd work for wmlxgettext too.)
20160427 21:19:39< Aginor> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4611512/is-there-a-way-to-make-git-pull-automatically-update-submodules
20160427 21:19:48< Aginor> that's probably good enough
20160427 21:20:03< Aginor> the interesting bit would be keeping branches and the like in sync
20160427 21:20:30< Aginor> and does translations generate enoguh churn that it's worth the hassle?
20160427 21:20:43< Aginor> Dugi: it seems to me that you're behind the times ;)
20160427 21:21:02< Dugi> Aginor: :D
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20160427 21:42:41< fabi> hi
20160427 21:44:42< Aginor> hi fabi 
20160427 21:44:58< fabi> Hello Aginor :-)
20160427 21:45:21< Aginor> how are you?
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20160427 21:58:29< zookeeper> SigurdFD, as one last thing i'd just make delfador (or kalenz) mention both sides of the river in the same line. they don't sound too smart making those two truncated obvious observations one after another :P
20160427 21:58:50< zookeeper> (about the impassability, that is)
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20160427 22:09:18< zookeeper> but it doesn't need to specify north and south of course. could just say that the surrounding cliffs are too high etc etc, as long as you take the surrounding lines by konrad and li'sar into account.
20160427 22:10:01< fabi> Aginor: I am fine, thanks. And you?
20160427 22:10:10< Aginor> fabi: I am well
20160427 22:10:32< fabi> Good to hear.
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20160427 22:12:36< zookeeper> SigurdFD, but the dialogue is ridiculous in that scenario anyway and can't be fixed without rewriting most of it, so...
20160427 22:16:14< SigurdFD> ok. I can change it. I thought it fit with later dialog of 'fair enough' x3 though.
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20160427 22:24:18< zookeeper> also i think it could just be squashed into one commit
20160427 22:26:20< zookeeper> oh wait, did github now let me choose that when merging? if so then that's nice
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20160427 22:28:42< celticminstrel> I don't quite remember what "submodule update" does... is that like "pull submodule repo" or "update referenced commit"?
20160427 22:29:22< celticminstrel> zookeeper: Yes, github now supports squash merges. :) I was going to use that for pentarctagon's PR but haven't gotten around to it yet.
20160427 22:29:40< SigurdFD> zookeeper: was wondering if I should do a squash on it.
20160427 22:29:57< shadowm> I forgot to post this here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesmere/build0007-20160426.png
20160427 22:31:21< SigurdFD> nice
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20160427 22:34:42< zookeeper> trendy!
20160427 22:36:20< shadowm> Um, no. Trendy would be as drawn by the children of Microsoft's employees, flat and in two to three colors.
20160427 22:37:06< shadowm> Plus I declined to hijack the scrollbar/scrollwheel as Glorious Leader requested.
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20160427 22:38:48< zookeeper> well the other kind of trendy. but, anyway, if i had to pick something to pick on then i'd pick how you both the bottom (join/contribute) and the main menu kinda have same functions.
20160427 22:39:28< zookeeper> like, do the former really need to be on the front page as opposed to clearly-named separate pages linked to from the main menu?
20160427 22:39:36 * zookeeper shrugs
20160427 22:42:20< zookeeper> anyway, it's a minor issue if one at all. but where are news items supposed to go? new main menu item? no news ever?
20160427 22:42:27 * zookeeper is going so will read the answer from the logs
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20160427 22:45:47< shadowm> Separate page.
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--- Log closed Thu Apr 28 00:00:49 2016