--- Log opened Thu Apr 21 00:00:14 2016
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20160421 02:37:44< DeFender1> is there a way to transfer units from a persistent team (using persistent=yes in [side]) to another side without having to store them in the last scenario in which they appear? For example, let's say i have a recurring team leader character who eventually joins the side of the main character, and i want to merge that team's recall list into the main one. I could just store all their units at the end of the last scenario where they're
20160421 02:37:44< DeFender1>  a separate team and then modify the side number to unstore all of them onto the main side, but let's say that this merge only happens sometimes depending on some choice the player makes, and let's say that that side doesn't even appear in the scenario where the choice is made. Is there any way to, say, store all units belonging to a certain persistent save id?
20160421 02:38:18< DeFender1> Also related, is there a way to clear data associated with a persistent save id once i know that that team will not be appearing again in the campaign?
20160421 02:55:46< celticminstrel> I don't know of any such thing.
20160421 02:56:03< celticminstrel> You can [modify_unit] at the end of a scenario to switch their side.
20160421 02:56:12< celticminstrel> I think it even works in a victory event.
20160421 02:56:54< celticminstrel> If the side doesn't exist in the scenario where the choice is made, though, I store/unstore is the only way.
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20160421 03:07:50< DeFender1> celticminstrel, and the question about clearing a persistent side's data once i know i'm done with it?
20160421 03:09:05< celticminstrel> [Apr 20@10:55:46pm] celticminstrel: I don't know of any such thing.
20160421 03:10:09< DeFender1> ah, thought that was an answer for the first question
20160421 03:10:12< DeFender1> okay then
20160421 03:10:28< celticminstrel> Yeah, sorry for being unclear.
20160421 03:16:21< DeFender1> it's cool. so is there any reason to use persistent over just storing the data to be carried over myself as necessary and managing it manually?
20160421 03:16:35< celticminstrel> Probably?
20160421 03:16:49< celticminstrel> I'm not really sure what persistent does, actually.
20160421 03:17:03< celticminstrel> I think recall lists will be saved even for non-persistent sides...
20160421 03:17:51< DeFender1> from what i understand, it automatically carries over a bunch of stuff (primarily the recall list and leader unit) when the same save id (or leader id) is used in a later scenario
20160421 03:18:15< DeFender1> i tested and it does not appear to be the case that non-persistent sides have recall lists
20160421 03:18:38< DeFender1> (meaning, i couldn't even manually force a unit onto the recall list of a non-persistent side)
20160421 03:18:58< DeFender1> (all the more so expecting a carried over list)
20160421 03:19:08< celticminstrel> ...I thought I wasn't using persistent sides in my campaign... but maybe I remembered wrong.
20160421 03:19:26< celticminstrel> I know some enemy sides get a recall list though.
20160421 03:23:54< DeFender1> hmm... i still haven't gotten very far in yours... been too busy working on mine :P
20160421 03:24:15< DeFender1> but if and when i notice that, i can check the code for that particular scenario
20160421 03:24:35< DeFender1> right now though, i must notice the inside of my eyes for the next several hours.
20160421 03:25:23< celticminstrel> I'm curious now, how far did you get?
20160421 03:25:36< celticminstrel> ...that's an interesting euphemism for sleep. o.o
20160421 03:25:53< DeFender1> it was a follow up to the previous statement...
20160421 03:26:08< celticminstrel> I think the code for sides that get a recall list is hidden behind a macro.
20160421 03:26:17< celticminstrel> Huh?
20160421 03:26:47< DeFender1> and i played the first scenario but didn't realize that i was supposed to rouse the surrounding villages to build up enough units to retake the keep and... well... it didn't go well for me. I'll try again one of these days.
20160421 03:27:27< celticminstrel> On what difficulty setting?
20160421 03:27:46< celticminstrel> I generally don't rouse the villages when I play it, but I also don't play on hard.
20160421 03:27:50< DeFender1> ah, i'm not very familiar with the macro library... i've kind of just been looking for what WML i need and then using it directly, or creating my own macros if i find i'm doing something repeatedly.
20160421 03:28:04< celticminstrel> (Or at least, I don't rouse them until after retaking the keep.)
20160421 03:28:10< celticminstrel> Ah, it's a custom macro.
20160421 03:28:18< DeFender1> then maybe i just got unlucky... i'm pretty sure it was on easy.
20160421 03:28:28< celticminstrel> If the leader was a shyde, it's on easy.
20160421 03:28:38< DeFender1> it ws IINM
20160421 03:28:58< DeFender1> oh, interesting idea, change the unit type based on difficulty... interesting
20160421 03:29:13< celticminstrel> The ranger becomes an archer on hard. :P
20160421 03:29:20< DeFender1> okay, i really do need to sleep now though
20160421 03:29:29< celticminstrel> (But you don't get to promote him to marksman.)
20160421 03:29:36< celticminstrel> Okay, good night.
20160421 03:29:58< DeFender1> you too... i'd love to pick this up tomorrow
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20160421 15:00:02< DeFender1> is the behavior where if a [message]'s speaker doesn't exist (for example, they were already killed) intended to be used as such, or does it generate some type of warning if that happens? Basically, is best practice to wrap messages where the unit might not actually exist in a [if][have_unit], or is it considered perfectly routine to just use message directly?
20160421 15:00:37< DeFender1> the behavior where the message is skipped*
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20160421 15:10:14< zookeeper> intended to be used as such
20160421 15:11:55< zookeeper> for example if you just want a unit that the player might or might not have speak a line without it affecting other dialogue, then it's intended that you can just add the message and not worry about checking for the unit's existence first.
20160421 15:12:09< DeFender1> right, that was my question
20160421 15:12:45< DeFender1> i could see it going both ways though, as much of the time, a message is crucial to dialogue, so not having the unit will cause the dialogue to be weird
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20160421 17:33:58< gfgtdf> DeFender1: the side specific carryoer handles recuit lists,  recall lists (ths inludes the leader) and the carryover gold
20160421 17:34:20< celticminstrel> Guest892: ^
20160421 17:34:37< celticminstrel> ...at least, I'm assuming that's him.
20160421 17:35:05< gfgtdf> DeFender1: at the end (after victory event), for every side that has persistent=yes (defeult for human sides) and is not defeated ist stores those thing to apply it to a side with a matching save_id in the next scenario
20160421 17:35:22< gfgtdf> it stores*
20160421 17:36:06< celticminstrel> "is not defeated"
20160421 17:36:16< celticminstrel> What if it is defeated?
20160421 17:36:36< celticminstrel> Some of the cases in my campaign involve defeated sides returning later.
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20160421 17:36:52< gfgtdf> DeFender1: if there is no side with a matching save_id in teh next scenario this data stays stored in the background and it applies when there is a side with a matching save_id in any later sceanrio
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20160421 17:37:25< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm it usually means that teh defaeat_condition as specifies in [side] evaluates to true
20160421 17:37:26< celticminstrel> BTW, save_id is set to id if not explicitly specified, right?
20160421 17:37:40< celticminstrel> Huhwhat?
20160421 17:37:45< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes save_id defaults to id
20160421 17:38:38< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: [side] has a defeat_cindution key that specifies when a  a side is defaeated which is usually used to specify whena scenario ends
20160421 17:38:55< celticminstrel> And it doesn't have a default value?
20160421 17:39:58< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: teh default value is "all_leader_liost" or similar afaik
20160421 17:40:18< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: you can also put remove_from_carryover_on_defeat=no in [scenario] to prevent sides to be removed from carryover if they are defeated
20160421 17:40:46< celticminstrel> Hmm.
20160421 17:41:38< celticminstrel> I think for one case the leader does survive (specifically, I [endlevel] in the death event, if I recall correctly).
20160421 17:42:08< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: but it reccomended that you then remove the side form the carryover when you don't need them anymore manually to prevent bloating the savefiles with carryover data fromn sides that will never appear again
20160421 17:42:23< celticminstrel> In another case it's an ally, and death of the leader is a defeat condition for you.
20160421 17:42:24< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i currently dont know whether it conts as defeated in that specific case sry
20160421 17:42:40< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: (that comment was about the first case)
20160421 17:42:49< celticminstrel> There's a way to remove them from the carryover manually?
20160421 17:43:05< celticminstrel> I think there was a third case where the leader doesn't survive, though...
20160421 17:43:10< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes set side.lost=true in a victory event
20160421 17:43:22< celticminstrel> Using [modify_side]?
20160421 17:43:31< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: you can also set side.lost=false to prevent a side form being removed form carryover
20160421 17:43:49< celticminstrel> [modify_side]lost=yes?
20160421 17:43:58< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: side.lost was meant from lua side objects, not sure ot modify_side has an iterface for it
20160421 17:44:22< celticminstrel> I'd think it probably does then.
20160421 17:45:44< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i'm not sure i'd receoment to check the c++ code first (1.12 and master)
20160421 17:45:57< celticminstrel> Not the Lua code?
20160421 17:46:34< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: afaik modify_side is implemented mainly in c++
20160421 17:47:03< celticminstrel> Really? Okay then.
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20160421 17:48:06< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: note that lost= will have no effect is presistent=false (i actually thing we should remove tegh lost= attribute and simply allow to set persistent=true/false duringthe scenario)
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20160421 19:04:01< DeFender1> celticminstrel, yeah, that's me.
20160421 19:04:45< DeFender1> i didn't quite follow what gfgtdf was saying though
20160421 19:05:39< celticminstrel> It sounds like there's a way to explicitly delete data for a persistent side.
20160421 19:05:53< DeFender1> also, is there some kind of log being kept of this channel? That's the third time i've seen someone come in and respond to something which I asked while they weren't here themselves.
20160421 19:05:59< celticminstrel> Whether that's possibly in ActionWML though, I'm not sure.
20160421 19:06:11< DeFender1> yeah, i saw some stuff about doing so from lua
20160421 19:06:20< DeFender1> but i'm not writing lua
20160421 19:06:20< celticminstrel> I'm not quite sure if this channel is included, but check http://irclogs.wesnoth.org/
20160421 19:06:26< celticminstrel> ^possible
20160421 19:06:56< celticminstrel> Oh, I guess it would be included if gfgtdf wasn't here when you first said that.
20160421 19:07:03< DeFender1> yep. i'm looking at this conversation right now. good to know.
20160421 19:07:58< DeFender1> btw, celticminstrel, i gave your campaign another shot... currently halfway through the second scenario
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20160421 23:05:15< DeFender1> if one discovers that something on the add-on server appears to be from elsewhere, how would one go about verifying that there is in fact permission for it to be shared under the GPL as well?
20160421 23:06:35< zookeeper> asking the author would seem to be the only way that's not very very difficult.
20160421 23:06:55< zookeeper> if they don't have permission then their response is likely going to give that away.
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20160421 23:07:47< DeFender1> Specifically, I found a piece of music (which is actually really really good) in the epic music add-on that when i searched youtube for it, i found it to be from some flash game.
20160421 23:09:10< DeFender1> zookeeper: it seems like a lot of the resource add-ons contain work from several different creators who may not be listed on the info itself
20160421 23:11:02< DeFender1> okay, seems like it's from some site that releases open source game resources.
20160421 23:11:41< DeFender1> (though i'm not sure that CC is compatible with GPL, but at that point it's a matter of legal technicality not theft)
20160421 23:13:14< DeFender1> oh, it's unde CC0 which is effectively public domain...
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 22 00:00:20 2016