--- Log opened Wed May 04 00:00:48 2016
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20160504 04:02:27< Nobun> celmin: I updated my PR with a note about usage of macros in translatable string (it is related to the feature of using _ << translatable string >> on name generator by Dugi)
20160504 04:04:08< Nobun> (I write it now so I'm sure I don't forget to warn about the note itself... it is not a good time to write here (6:00 AM... but I cannot sleep :P)
20160504 04:04:12< Nobun> see you later
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20160504 04:08:21< celmin> Wait, why am I still celmin?
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20160504 04:08:47< celticminstrel> Client's supposed to automatically change when the other nick becomes available...
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20160504 04:42:55< zookeeper> shadowm, right... of course.
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20160504 11:25:51< fabi_> hi
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20160504 15:54:24< pydsigner> The Geography of Wesnoth wiki article could use a map update.
20160504 15:56:43< zookeeper> it sure could
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20160504 16:49:31< Nobun> I am curious... but the map you use in core campaign was generated by some application or it was handly drawn?
20160504 16:51:30< zookeeper> well it was semi-procedurally created, not generated by any single application
20160504 16:52:26< zookeeper> (i used about 4 different apps)
20160504 16:52:56< Nobun> zookeeper: I asked becouse I developing (behind the scene) a very little campaign and I'm thinking of painting a map (the campaign has nothing to do with the mainline story)
20160504 16:53:18< Nobun> but I am completely unable to paint anything :P
20160504 16:55:00< zookeeper> would it be a map that's like most others in that it contains a little bit of everything, or something simpler?
20160504 16:59:17< Nobun> I don't know
20160504 16:59:44< Nobun> I'm thinking about a map similar to the one in main core wich can reflect more or less the scenario I will use in campaign
20160504 17:00:33< Nobun> but I have no rush (I started the campaign when wesnoth version were 1.6 and still not finished, even if short... mostly becouse I have no time and I stopped the development for more than 3 years xD)
20160504 17:03:23< zookeeper> right, well... producing a new map takes me a bit of time but not _that_ much, so if it happens that you finish the campaign one day you can always ask :p
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20160504 17:06:37< Kwandulin> Is there a bigmap of the deserts of the south?
20160504 17:06:53< Kwandulin> I know there is a map with the south woods and a bit of the sandy wastes, but is there more?
20160504 17:07:33< zookeeper> no, only a sketch of the rough outlines
20160504 17:10:22< zookeeper> namely this, which you might have seen: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63964618/wesnoth/maps/great_continent_masks.png
20160504 17:11:21< Kwandulin> ah, yes, i saw this once
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20160504 17:12:29< zookeeper> i haven't made a proper map because the details would always depend on the content that's actually going to need it
20160504 17:12:49< zookeeper> but that's the general idea i've had in mind for it
20160504 17:12:55< Kwandulin> oh, a year ago i even tried to localize my campaign in there: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=586312#p586312
20160504 17:14:17< zookeeper> yeah i was thinking that their cities would mostly be around that big bay and the river flowing into it
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20160504 17:20:20< zookeeper> but that's largely just where it would have made sense for them to build their first major settlements, in time they'd expand into and across the desert too
20160504 17:20:49< zookeeper> (i don't know/recall when exactly OoA takes place)
20160504 17:21:14< Kwandulin> i am trying to get a new update for my campaign done until version 1.14.0. i got no set of story images yet and the whole campaign is about a great journey into the deserts, so a bigmap would certainly be valuable. in case you are interested in making one for the deserts, maybe we can work together?
20160504 17:22:06< Kwandulin> it is taking place during the silver ages, but im not sure if i mentioned that
20160504 17:25:44< zookeeper> sure, it looks like yours will be the de facto khalifate campaign (unless i've missed another) so sure i can make the map and help with the geography design if you need it
20160504 17:26:30< zookeeper> and the silver age is pretty late in the timeline so that's good
20160504 17:26:35< pydsigner> There are a couple
20160504 17:30:48< zookeeper> there have been others, but i don't think they've been as good? been a long time since i last checked, though
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20160504 17:33:28< Kwandulin> i'm glad you're willing to help me! after i finished two more portraits i'll try to put my thoughts about locations and such into a map, so we got something to think about
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20160504 17:34:54< irker733> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:asio_wesnothd cac07b3e79cd / src/server/server.cpp: Fix invalid iterator usage https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cac07b3e79cdae722489e33bb4787c66f851b26b
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20160504 17:41:07< pydsigner> Kwandulin: Do you have your stuff up on github or the add-on server anywhere?
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20160504 17:41:46< Kwandulin> pdydigner: it is both on 1.12.5 and 1.13.x
20160504 17:42:01< Kwandulin> pydsigner*
20160504 17:43:35< pydsigner> zookeeper: A New Order is the other one
20160504 17:43:48< pydsigner> Kwandulin: Ah okay, I've looked at it before
20160504 17:44:20< zookeeper> ANO switched aragwaithi to khalifate at some point, was that it?
20160504 17:44:57< Kwandulin> and in case you are interested how the next update will look like, you might take a look here: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=596102#p596102
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20160504 17:50:35< pydsigner> zookeeper: IDK
20160504 17:50:50< zookeeper> Kwandulin, so, as to the map(s), basically you can suggest any geographical changes/additions you think would be good.
20160504 17:50:51< zookeeper> i tried to design the general layout so that it facilitates the old continent backstory and gets them within reasonable distance of wesnoth while still keeping them sort of naturally isolated by mountains and the desert.
20160504 17:52:59< zookeeper> and that is to make it plausible that they aren't getting mentioned much even if they've actually inhabited those parts as early as pre-HttT, for example.
20160504 17:53:47< Kwandulin> is the backstory mentioned in the game?
20160504 17:54:03< zookeeper> not yet, no
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20160504 17:54:55< zookeeper> how much does OoA touch on their origins? i've only played like... halfway through, i think
20160504 17:56:34< celticminstrel> ANO was the one that my sister played and said was a bit weird or something. I think she liked OoA better.
20160504 17:56:46< Kwandulin> it doesnt mention their origins, so i am fine with any backstory that i can include somehow
20160504 17:57:00< celticminstrel> I remember getting the two mixed up in here once or twice. >_>
20160504 17:57:31 * zookeeper couldn't possible mix up ANO with anything else, it's such a... classic
20160504 17:57:49< pydsigner> Yeah it does. "La la la" naked person whaaaaa?
20160504 17:58:02< celticminstrel> I probably couldn't either, if I had actually played them, but about all I knew about them was that they involved khalifate.
20160504 17:59:02< celticminstrel> Kwandulin drew those portraits?
20160504 17:59:20< pydsigner> not in ANO
20160504 17:59:30< celticminstrel> I'm referring to the ones linked a little earlier.
20160504 17:59:38< pydsigner> Oh ok yeah
20160504 17:59:48< Kwandulin> celticminstrel, yes
20160504 17:59:48< pydsigner> They're nice aren't they?
20160504 17:59:49< zookeeper> pydsigner, yeah, the one and only original wesnoth campaign for adult audiences
20160504 17:59:58< celticminstrel> Yeah, they're not bad, at least.
20160504 18:00:18< celticminstrel> Wait, does this mean OoA has djinn?
20160504 18:00:41< pydsigner> You can't really lift them and put them by lordbob's stuff but alone they're a nice twist
20160504 18:00:48< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20160504 18:00:59< Kwandulin> it is a small easteregg in a secret scenario. they are protecting a treasure chamber
20160504 18:01:47< zookeeper> "they're not bad, at least" - common wesnothian commendation
20160504 18:02:03< Kwandulin> these are my first serious attempts at portraits, but i am trying to get better
20160504 18:02:04< celticminstrel> How are you thinking up your names?
20160504 18:02:40< celticminstrel> Like "afariyat", "alqasir", "altawir", "waghad-al-lahab", "kar'rhur-hai", etc
20160504 18:03:35< Kwandulin> "afariyat" is somehow connected to "dust" in arabic, and that red djinn is an evil djinn who emerges from sands
20160504 18:04:09< Kwandulin> alqasir means something like "short" for "shortbow", altawir means "long", in regard to "longbow"
20160504 18:04:39< Kwandulin> i am putting some words into the google translator, switch some letters (maybe add an h and y somewhere) and then im down
20160504 18:05:04< celticminstrel> I see.
20160504 18:05:12< celticminstrel> So basically from Arabic though.
20160504 18:05:22< Kwandulin> waghad-al-lahab means something like "brigand of the flames", and kar'rhur-hai is the classic keyboard hit
20160504 18:05:36< celticminstrel> That said, "kar'rhur-hai" makes me think of the Black Speech.
20160504 18:05:43< celticminstrel> Probably just a coincidence.
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20160504 18:17:52< pydsigner> So *that's* how Tolkien came up with it :]
20160504 18:18:31< celticminstrel> ...?
20160504 18:18:36< celticminstrel> ...oh.
20160504 18:18:45< celticminstrel> Heh, no. :P
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20160504 19:57:17< Elvish_Hunter> 20160503 19:40:20< aquileia> pydsigner, Nobun, loonycyborg, Elvish_Hunter: I just noticed that we use a mix of # -*- coding: utf-8 -*- and # encoding: utf8
20160504 19:57:56< Elvish_Hunter> aquileia: both styles are explicitely allowed by PEP 263: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/
20160504 19:58:01< Nobun> Elvish_Hunter: utf-8 is the most correct suntax
20160504 19:58:15< Nobun> but 'utf8' works the same
20160504 19:58:21< Nobun> so they are equivalent
20160504 19:58:21< Elvish_Hunter> In fact, even '# coding=<encoding name>' is allowed
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20160504 19:59:17< Nobun> yes... I used "encoding='utf-8'" becouse it is more clear to read in my opinion
20160504 19:59:31< Nobun> but other syntaxes are right too
20160504 20:01:51< pydsigner> Elvish_Hunter: They're both "right" but it's inconsistent to use both
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20160504 20:12:24< Elvish_Hunter> However, I remember IDLE using the '# -*- coding: <encoding> -*-' style when saving files.
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20160504 20:47:21< SigurdFD> Hello
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20160504 20:49:55< SigurdFD> zookeeper: For pr#652, had you wanted me to change the one dialog and do a squash?
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20160504 20:50:27< zookeeper> SigurdFD, the dialog change yes, but i can do the squash myself when i merge
20160504 20:51:00< SigurdFD> ok
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20160504 21:05:20< pydsigner> Elvish_Hunter: IDLE doesn't count :>
20160504 21:10:05< SigurdFD> zookeeper, anyone else: Here's my next round of proposed HttT changes: http://pastebin.com/WUPiSDEp
20160504 21:12:33< zookeeper> hmhmhm
20160504 21:14:23< pydsigner> Interesting
20160504 21:16:27< SigurdFD> brb
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20160504 21:17:05< Elvish_Hunter> SigurdFD: I just want to remember that, back then, I made a Young Gryphon unit. Granted, its sprite is a recolored and scaled down Gryphon, but it might be useful for the hard difficulty.
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20160504 21:19:44< SigurdFD> Elvish_Hunter: how so?
20160504 21:23:22< zookeeper> it's good to have some sort of explanation for where li'sar's troops disappear to, but it is a pretty hamfisted method. i think it's easily explained why she can't recruit anymore (maybe her logistics are just worse and her manpower depleted) and it's just her existing units that are the problem. i don't mind if some of them stay, although it would also be convenient if some AI trickery 
20160504 21:23:22< zookeeper> could ensure that as few of them as possible will :P
20160504 21:24:47< pydsigner> zookeeper: I think the terrain and AI focus usually helps with that to start out
20160504 21:24:54< SigurdFD> yeah, was thinking that could be coded in with the 'rocks fall, people die' option, to limit her survivors.
20160504 21:25:12< pydsigner> * helps with that already
20160504 21:25:16< SigurdFD> though not sure how needed it would be, my playthrough only had two left at the end
20160504 21:25:27< pydsigner> ^
20160504 21:25:51< pydsigner> It would make sense for the scenario text to mention a cave in.
20160504 21:26:08-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.178.242.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160504 21:26:10< pydsigner> That would also explain why no-one has any idea where they're at.
20160504 21:26:22< Elvish_Hunter> SigurdFD: it's up to you to decide. Maybe on Hard, the loyal Gryphon could be a lvelv 1, so it'll be harder to keep it alive.
20160504 21:26:54< pydsigner> That's a good idea.
20160504 21:27:03< Elvish_Hunter> Or the Gryphons that join in S18 might be a mix of level 1 and level 2.
20160504 21:27:19< Elvish_Hunter> And you get more L1 and less L2 on Normal and Hard.
20160504 21:27:44< SigurdFD> I think might be better, it seems odd for a level 1 to join you at S10
20160504 21:29:33< zookeeper> i'd think that at the start of the next scenario, konrad could just remark how she has little troops left with her, prompting her to give her surplus resources/gold to him (as opposed to just keeping fielding her own units).
20160504 21:29:48< zookeeper> and explain away her lack of recruiting ability that way
20160504 21:34:46< celticminstrel> I thought this was about wild gryphons, not gryphon riders.
20160504 21:35:29< zookeeper> it is
20160504 21:35:52< celticminstrel> So Elvish_Hunter is proposing making a new L1 gryphon unit?
20160504 21:39:22< pydsigner> It already exists somewhere, I've seen it used before
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20160504 21:50:19< SigurdFD> zookeeper: I think the remark of how little troops she has left has it's own issues. I think it calls attention to how Konrad still has Elves & Merfol in a cave with him....
20160504 21:50:42< zookeeper> yeah, it might :P
20160504 21:50:54< SigurdFD> ... and she'd come across as a bad battle commander with her troops gone like that.
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20160504 21:53:04< Elvish_Hunter> celticminstrel: I'm not proposing to make it, I made it. You can find it, for example, in TSoG.
20160504 21:53:13< celticminstrel> 'kay
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20160504 21:54:00< Elvish_Hunter> https://www.wesnoth.org/units/1.12/The_Sojournings_of_Grog/en_US/Young%20Gryphon.html
20160504 21:55:14< SigurdFD> I may put the gryphon thing further back in my queue. What I metioned in the pastbin is stuff I'd prefer to deal with before tackling S20b.
20160504 21:57:17< SigurdFD> Elvish_Hunter: have you used wmlindent much on windows?
20160504 21:58:22< Elvish_Hunter> SigurdFD: yes, I did.
20160504 21:59:25< SigurdFD> I run into line ending difficulties. Such as git complains when files get changed with nothing else going on.
20160504 21:59:30< SigurdFD> how do you deal with them?
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20160504 22:01:23< Elvish_Hunter> Hmmm... I never had this problem. Then again, all my commits are done from Linux.
20160504 22:01:55< SigurdFD> zookeeper: what about giving Li'sar canrecruit=yes? some player who end up giving Konrad the scepter are unhappy about that's it's currently better to give it to her.
20160504 22:02:43< SigurdFD> Elvish_Hunter: exactly, I'm getting the impression I might be the only one doing wml commits on windows.
20160504 22:03:31< zookeeper> SigurdFD, i'm not sure, really. i've never managed to conclusively make up my mind about multiple leaders.
20160504 22:03:52 * zookeeper is on windows, but doesn't use wmlindent
20160504 22:04:02< Elvish_Hunter> It might be an issue with your text editor, or your Git configuration as well.
20160504 22:04:52< SigurdFD> zookeeper: myself included. If it wasn't for wanting to provide replays for other new players in the feedback thread, I would have cheated in my playthrough to giver her canrecruit=yes
20160504 22:05:35< Elvish_Hunter> If you can send me a forum PM and attach one of such files, I should be able to check if this does depend on wmlindent or doesn't.
20160504 22:06:26< SigurdFD> Elvish_hunter: yes, yes. It's a bit of a can of worms, and there's more to it than what I've mentioned....
20160504 22:06:50< SigurdFD> .... I'll get to it, but I tihnk I want to clear out some other things first.
20160504 22:07:37< SigurdFD> but I may suggest that windows line endings option be added to wmlindent, not sure yet.
20160504 22:09:51< SigurdFD> Elvish_Hunter: not sure what you mean about pm'ing you a file.
20160504 22:10:45< SigurdFD> when I installed git, I picked the logical option for a multi-platform project, which is checkout windows style, commit unix style.
20160504 22:11:31< SigurdFD> anytime the line endings are adjusted locally, git complains and wants to re-index or something.
20160504 22:11:49< SigurdFD> This also happens when I edit a map in the map editor
20160504 22:14:06< SigurdFD> I'll save the rest for my write-up on it.
20160504 22:15:07< Elvish_Hunter> Indeed, codecs.open() opens files in binary mode, this means that the '\n' caracters aren't translated to the default ones used by the OS. All my cfg files have a LF line ending, so this should be why I didn't notice anything.
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20160504 22:17:30< Elvish_Hunter> Anyway, now I have to go. You can either write here (I read the logs) or send me a PM with your questions. Bye!
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20160504 22:17:48< SigurdFD> ok
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20160504 22:53:05< SigurdFD> zookeeper: Is the latest version of the gryphon change ok?
20160504 22:55:38< zookeeper> yeah it seems good
20160504 22:56:18< SigurdFD> ok
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--- Log closed Thu May 05 00:00:49 2016