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20160514 03:15:32< shadowm> mattsc: Would you mind if we resumed now a conversation we had back in December which was cut short by stuff, about the AI priority target engine?
20160514 03:16:45< shadowm> Or alternative I can rephrase as: how would I go about determining the AI's original aggression/caution values from Lua?
20160514 03:16:49< shadowm> *that as
20160514 03:18:55< mattsc> shadowm: I don’t mind, but I’m busy with real life stuff probably the rest of the night.
20160514 03:19:06< shadowm> Okay, tomorrow then.
20160514 03:19:10< mattsc> What do you mean with “original”?
20160514 03:19:22< mattsc> I should have some more time tomorrow (I hope)
20160514 03:20:23< mattsc> Original as in default, or set at the beginning of the scenario, or … ?
20160514 03:20:35< shadowm> Well, if I have this <http://pastebin.com/raw/tBQjjscB> then in my mind the original values are 9.0 and 0.0.
20160514 03:21:04< shadowm> Although I reckon that's very imprecise when you take into account turn-based aspects etc.
20160514 03:21:49< shadowm> ... :| which I guess I actually use in at least one situation: http://pastebin.com/raw/u64wUf43
20160514 03:23:05< shadowm> Hm. Come to think of it, I'd probably have to rebalance that whole fight if I fixed the targeting engine aggression/caution clobbering bug.
20160514 03:23:20< mattsc> To get the current value, you should just be able to do ai.get_Aggression(), right?
20160514 03:23:29< mattsc> sorry, small a, not capital A
20160514 03:23:41< shadowm> I don't know, that's why I'm asking. :p
20160514 03:23:48< mattsc> Ah, ok.  :P
20160514 03:24:36< mattsc> shadowm: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaAI#Functions_Returning_Aspect_Values
20160514 03:26:57< shadowm> I think I'll just add base aggr/caution parameters to the engine.
20160514 03:28:57< mattsc> Okay; sorry I can’t stay around right now, I’ll be here at least some parts of tomorrow.
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20160514 03:57:05< celticminstrel> To determine the "original" values, you would need to access the AI WML.
20160514 03:57:33< celticminstrel> And I think it could get pretty difficult.
20160514 03:58:04< celticminstrel> There's literally nothing to distinguish values added in that way from any other changes made later in the scenario.
20160514 03:58:35< celticminstrel> ...well... I suppose if you ensured that every aspect added later has an ID, then you could search for the one with no ID...
20160514 03:59:46< celticminstrel> I wouldn't call those values the "base aggression" etc, either - the default value would make more sense in that context, I think.
20160514 04:00:56< celticminstrel> In 1.13 you should be able to explicitly set the default (using the normal extended aspect syntax with a [default] tag replacing [facet]), which would make retrieving it much easier. I can't remember if that works in 1.12 though. 
20160514 04:02:29 * celticminstrel will be away for the weekend, incidentally, so I might not be around again until Tuesday.
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20160514 05:14:29< shadowm> mattsc: (For when you have some time.) Why does the priority target engine set its own aggr/caution values, anyway?
20160514 05:15:13< shadowm> It just sets them to 1.0/0.0, which... I think I can be trusted to do on my own? Or is there a more contrived reason for the engine doing it instead?
20160514 05:19:29< shadowm> In theory, at least for my use-case, I think I'll be better off delegating that responsibility to the scenario author (i.e. me), especially for the IftU S23B case where I want more fine-grained control over aggr/caution.
20160514 05:24:25< shadowm> loonycyborg: BTW, since you found the same issue as me with fast=no and newer versions of SCons, have you perhaps figured out what changed and if it's a bug/whether it's Wesnoth's fault or not?
20160514 05:24:47< mattsc> shadowm: just stopping by for a few seconds …  It’s in order to force the priority attack to happen
20160514 05:25:18< mattsc> Otherwise the AI might decide that the priority attack is not worth it, and as a result _no_ attack at all will happen during the turn.
20160514 05:25:43< shadowm> Even if aggression >= 1.0 ?
20160514 05:25:54< shadowm> (And caution == 0.0)
20160514 05:26:40< mattsc> Umm, no, that’s the case for any value >=1.0.  But aggression > 1 is generally a bad idea.  Unless you want the AI to do unfavorable attacks.
20160514 05:27:24< shadowm> So it's okay as long as I make sure to use caution == 0.0 and aggression >= 1.0?
20160514 05:27:48< shadowm> Yes, I know that aggression > 1.0 results in suicidal behavior. That often becomes a necessity in my campaigns in certain situations.
20160514 05:29:10< mattsc> IT should be okay then, as far as I know.
20160514 05:30:28< shadowm> Okay, I'll ponder this further then.
20160514 05:31:15< shadowm> (Trying to come up with the best balance between flexibility, reliability, and not having to re-test every single boss fight in both campaigns.)
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20160514 05:42:05< shadowm> Also, I just realized why this problem didn't come up until I started wiring this into IftU scenarios.
20160514 05:43:15< shadowm> The original AtS scenarios that made use of the engine had the player controlling either: 1) OP units which were always listed as candidates for the custom engine; or 2) weaklings that wouldn't pose a threat to the AI with the default 0.40/0.25 aggr/caution values.
20160514 05:43:49< shadowm> So if the OP units weren't reachable by the AI it'd still have nothing to "fear".
20160514 05:44:14< shadowm> Whereas in IftU S7 the AI might actually be facing multiple comparatively OP units that aren't on the candidates list.
20160514 05:46:19< shadowm> I guess, in other words, I might be better off not using the custom engine at all in IftU S7.
20160514 05:46:58< shadowm> I can probably achieve the intended effect with [goal] aspects instead.
20160514 05:47:56< shadowm> Actually, I don't even remember why I needed this engine in AtS in the first place.
20160514 05:49:12< shadowm> I guess my intention was to force AI leaders to engage in fights instead of letting their recruits do all the dirty work.
20160514 05:49:46< vultraz> isn't there a leader_aggression key or something
20160514 05:50:18< shadowm> Unfortunately, I didn't fully document this whole thing in the commit history because it was part of the AtS E3 finale project. :\
20160514 05:50:38< shadowm> But I'm reasonably sure I tried all the tools I had at my disposal at the time before asking mattsc.
20160514 05:52:42< pydsigner> Aginor, vultraz, gfgtdf: does the updated text worry you a little less?
20160514 05:53:09< vultraz> you're Daniel?
20160514 05:53:48< vultraz> yes, it looks good to me
20160514 05:54:18< pydsigner> vultraz: ah, you were working through email?
20160514 05:54:30< vultraz> yes
20160514 05:54:53< pydsigner> Yeah that's always a little fun ("Who *is* this guy???")
20160514 05:55:14< shadowm> gfgtdf is a Daniel too, for the record.
20160514 05:55:33< shadowm> And there is another Daniel in the commit history.
20160514 05:56:28< vultraz> I am aware
20160514 05:56:35< vultraz> Well, about gfgtdf, that is
20160514 05:56:51< shadowm> Yeah, I was about to say I'd be seriously surprised if you knew about the third.
20160514 05:57:13< pydsigner> The guy whose last name is Daniel?
20160514 05:57:21< shadowm> No.
20160514 05:57:35< shadowm> Daniel Franke.
20160514 05:58:13< pydsigner> There might be another Daniel as well
20160514 05:58:47< pydsigner> If DannyDaemonic's handle is indicative of his actual name
20160514 05:59:09< shadowm> I was thinking about people who've contributed directly to the project. I don't even know who that is.
20160514 06:01:06< vultraz> I'm pretty sure I'm the only Charles in the project
20160514 06:01:57< shadowm> We were discussing Daniels, not Charleses.
20160514 06:03:09< vultraz> And you are the only Ignacio 
20160514 06:03:29< shadowm> We weren't discussing Ignacios either.
20160514 06:04:27< shadowm> Most of our contributors have comparatively unique names only because they all tend to be from different countries.
20160514 06:05:06< shadowm> There are a few exceptions, though. For example, zookeeper and suokko are unrelated but share their last name.
20160514 06:05:25< shadowm> OTOH they are both from the same country, so that counts as an exception to the different-countries rule of thumb.
20160514 06:06:35< pydsigner> That must be why vultraz moved to micronesia: there wasn't enough room in the US for another Wesnoth dev :]
20160514 06:06:46< vultraz> Heh :P
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20160514 07:55:39< loonycyborg> shadowm: I suspect it's related to scanner changes in scons at that version. I reported it upstream :P
20160514 07:57:27< shadowm> ":P"
20160514 07:57:39< shadowm> Why ":P"? What's facetious about that statement now?
20160514 08:02:46< shadowm> 16:37:06 <shadowm> It's hard to tell when you sign pretty much every message with a tongue-sticking-out smiley.
20160514 08:02:49< shadowm> 16:37:32 <loonycyborg> That's because nearly everything I say is sarcasm
20160514 08:02:54< shadowm> s/facetious/sarcastic/
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20160514 08:05:20< shadowm> But yeah, cool, that's precisely what I wanted to hear so I wouldn't have to explain why I'm not in the best position to do it instead. :p
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20160514 09:29:00< loonycyborg> shadowm: :P is because I shared profiler output with bdbaddog but didn't hear back from him yet
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20160514 13:01:29< irker454> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master eaa3741d8e58 / / (18 files in 17 dirs): updated Italian translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/eaa3741d8e583940e73547e34360e45fbcf41f82
20160514 13:01:29< irker454> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 8bcbe968c39d / / (15 files in 14 dirs): updated Galician translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8bcbe968c39d5d51ce8b5fe8f6f37b151846458a
20160514 13:01:30< irker454> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 c0b56655c5ea / po/wesnoth-editor/it.po: updated Italian translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c0b56655c5ea2b1149360d4717b8033233f01572
20160514 13:01:31< irker454> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 1c49010534de / changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-editor/ja.po po/wesnoth-low/ja.po: updated Japanese translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1c49010534de67d02b1f3732559f9398c7eb8490
20160514 13:01:32< irker454> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 16f86f063cf3 / po/ (wesnoth-editor/gl.po wesnoth-low/gl.po): updated Galician translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/16f86f063cf34ea0d5f6078215ede952d463d0cc
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20160514 13:31:55< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9414 (master - 8bcbe96 : Nils Kneuper): The build passed.
20160514 13:31:55< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/130214020
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20160514 14:51:16< aquileia> wedge009: I'm going to revert e2549c1 because the .vcxproject.user files were necessary to pass OMP_WAIT_POLICY=PASSIVE and to run wesnoth in its root directory
20160514 15:23:37< aquileia> Hmm... I'll hold off on that commit until I know the reason why my WML unit tests no longer return the correct values
20160514 15:25:16< aquileia> In short, all fails return 0 nearly instantanously - as if OMP_WAIT_POLICY wasn't set, which it clearly is...
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20160514 15:37:28< aquileia> shadowm: wesnoth.exe -u test_move_fail_5 returns 0, wesnoth.exe "-u test_move_fail_5" returns 1
20160514 15:38:27< aquileia> Unforunately I call wesnoth as a parameter to WindowsTimeout.exe, so I can't nest quotes
20160514 15:38:57< aquileia> wesnoth.exe '-u test_move_fail_5' doesn't work either...
20160514 15:39:41< aquileia> The exact line in WML_tests.cmd is WindowsTimeout.exe "%binary% %opt% -u %%H" 20000
20160514 15:40:42< aquileia> This seems to be a regression as it worked without quotes before
20160514 15:40:58< aquileia> Aginor: ^
20160514 15:42:10< irker454> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:master d1718ae135cb / / (3 files in 2 dirs): vcproj: Revert e2549c1, update .gitignore https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d1718ae135cb36a59e358eb1eb78a9bb3b1d5a92
20160514 15:43:31< aquileia> At least it should be unrelated to the VC project files, so I don't have to hold that commit back
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20160514 15:45:47< aquileia> loonycyborg: To make sure whether it's a VC issue or general, could you just run a short script?
20160514 15:46:12< aquileia> setlocal enabledelayedexpansion                     set OMP_WAIT_POLICY=PASSIVE                wesnoth.exe -u test_move_fail_5              echo returns !ERRORLEVEL!, expected 1
20160514 15:47:58< aquileia> Hmm... the formatting is horrible, I'll repeat it as single lines
20160514 15:48:04< aquileia> setlocal enabledelayedexpansion
20160514 15:48:09< aquileia> set OMP_WAIT_POLICY=PASSIVE
20160514 15:48:19< aquileia> wesnoth.exe -u test_move_fail_5
20160514 15:48:25< aquileia> echo returns !ERRORLEVEL!, expected 1
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20160514 16:01:17< loonycyborg> aquileia: hmm I already forgot why do we set that omp var
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20160514 16:01:45< loonycyborg> anyway, running cmd scripts would require me to multiboot
20160514 16:04:12< loonycyborg> but iirc wesnoth has some code to set some omp env var and re-running itself
20160514 16:05:14< aquileia> OMP_WAIT_POLICY=PASSIVE prevents OpenMP from putting threads to sleep after 200µs/ms (don't remember which)
20160514 16:06:33< aquileia> Yes, Wesnoth reruns itself, but the first instance wouldn't wait for the error code of the second, so my test script has to set it itself
20160514 16:07:40< aquileia> loonycyborg: Running the Linux equivalent would help isolating the issue as well
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20160514 16:08:56< aquileia> Currently, I don't know whether the regression is general, Windows only or VC only
20160514 16:10:02< loonycyborg> hmm and how exactly to run it on linux?
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20160514 16:12:41< loonycyborg> ./wesnoth -u test_move_fail_5 doesn't seem to work
20160514 16:13:19< aquileia> What about wesnoth "-u test_move_fail_5" ?
20160514 16:13:59< aquileia> loonycyborg: Oh, and of course it's 1.13 only
20160514 16:14:43< loonycyborg> it says"unknown scenario"
20160514 16:15:00< loonycyborg> I'm on my asio_wesnothd branch actually
20160514 16:15:28< loonycyborg> but it was updated from master relatively recently
20160514 16:16:45< aquileia> The file should definitely be there: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/asio_wesnothd/data/test/scenarios/test_move.cfg
20160514 16:18:23< loonycyborg> I had to do ./wesnoth '-utest_move_fail_5'
20160514 16:18:35< loonycyborg> because it took space as part of name
20160514 16:19:42< loonycyborg> aquileia: https://gist.github.com/loonycyborg/4a6f016bfdf8be4a93bf0c91de9e2900
20160514 16:20:31< loonycyborg> and setting omp var doesn't change anything
20160514 16:22:46< aquileia> loonycyborg: That's most unusual... https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/jobs/129831893#L2154 shows that the test fails on your branch, as it should. Even more so as removing that space fixes the test suite for me...
20160514 16:23:08< aquileia> In any case, thanks for figuring out a fix
20160514 16:23:15< loonycyborg> heh np
20160514 16:23:29< loonycyborg> it seems our arg parsing is a little messedup
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20160514 16:30:23< aquileia> It wasn't when I last ran the unit tests, and travis uses opts+="-u $2 "...
20160514 16:30:49< aquileia> That's messed up indeed
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20160514 17:21:19< irker454> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:master 8b5ab74cd652 / projectfiles/VC12/WML_tests.cmd: vcproj: Workaround for argument parsing regression https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8b5ab74cd65291097e9e133655dc587ba1be9e4d
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20160514 18:45:20< gfgtdf> aquileia: you know whther it is posible to update ou travis boost to 1.60 or later or even update to ubuntu 16 ? I think that might fix those build errors.
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20160514 19:10:55< zookeeper> Jetrel_bot, https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=44152
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20160514 19:24:05< zookeeper> is there any reason for the player left dialog to be dismissable by esc (and having to have a default for it) in the first place? i mean, you could just have it displayed in a loop which only exits when you make a proper choice, no need to worry about what the default for when esc is pressed should be.
20160514 19:25:16< zookeeper> i can't think of any good reason for why it was originally coded as it was.
20160514 19:31:24< Ravana_> I regularly make use of the default when I am given host and don't want to take over
20160514 19:36:14< zookeeper> yet that would have been a rather terrible reason
20160514 19:40:55< pydsigner> Thoughts on dismounted portraits for mounted characters?
20160514 19:42:12< zookeeper> let me see one and i'll give my thoughts on it
20160514 19:44:31< pydsigner> https://github.com/pydsigner/North_Wind/blob/master/images/portraits/deoran_knight.png
20160514 19:44:52< pydsigner> I'm trying to decide whether to replace this with a mounted or dismounted portrait
20160514 19:45:27< zookeeper> ohh, so you just meant whether it's okay to use a dismounted portrait for a mounted unit?
20160514 19:46:39< pydsigner> Yeah
20160514 19:46:51< pydsigner> The only one in mainline appears to be Perrin
20160514 19:46:58< pydsigner> And that's a single-use portrait.
20160514 19:47:09< zookeeper> well i think that particular one looks like it'd work okay
20160514 19:48:32< zookeeper> but then again i don't see why you wouldn't rather just use the TSG version(s)
20160514 19:49:41< pydsigner> Same character but 20 years later leading different troops
20160514 19:49:55< zookeeper> oh, the time gap is that long? okay then.
20160514 19:50:13< zookeeper> i thought it was almost a direct sequel
20160514 19:50:25< pydsigner> It was until it wasn't.
20160514 19:50:29< zookeeper> right
20160514 19:50:46< pydsigner> EI!!!!!
20160514 19:51:41< pydsigner> Speaking of which, too bad nothing seems to be coming of the EI rewrite :(
20160514 19:52:02< zookeeper> might be easiest to edit an older version of the TSG versions though, yours still looks very young
20160514 19:52:38< pydsigner> Yes, probably because the artist was going off of the direct sequel idea
20160514 19:53:05< pydsigner> I'd say that the linked Deoran almost looks younger than the current.
20160514 19:54:22< pydsigner> I'd even make the case that the current Deoran looks too old...
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20160514 20:00:18< gfgtdf> zookeeper: well i perosnllay think that menu is qute hard to use, specailly becasue is currently requires double clicks on the buttons.
20160514 20:00:55< gfgtdf> zookeeper: so what i'd liek is eigher 1) Hotkeys for all menu entries or 2) change it to use dingle clicks.
20160514 20:02:36< zookeeper> 1 sounds overkill considering that the main usecase is someone who repeatedly tests MP stuff involving that dialog. 2 would require redoing the whole dialog.
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20160514 20:04:01< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm well but currently i can just press escape and remove it woudl be sure a regression forsomeone who repediteeley tests mp suff
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20160514 20:06:13< zookeeper> yeah, and?
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20160514 20:07:54< zookeeper> obviously bad UI design should not be kept even if it grants a somewhat convenient shortcut for a developer or two
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20160514 20:31:45< shadowm> aquileia: Why are you telling me this?
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20160514 20:47:13< zookeeper> pydsigner, a decent placeholder at least, i'd think: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63964618/wesnoth/deoran_bearded.png
20160514 20:51:10< pydsigner> zookeeper: Nice
20160514 20:51:41< pydsigner> zookeeper: I was asking, not to see what current art I could scrounge up, but to see what I should be getting made
20160514 20:53:21< zookeeper> well, if he only appears mounted then it'd surely make sense to have a new portrait be a mounted one
20160514 20:57:17< pydsigner> I'm thinking I might actually have him dismount for the caves like he once was going to for TSG
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20160514 21:03:22< zookeeper> i suppose an artist could position things so that it'd be easy for them to create both a mounted and unmounted version with relatively little alteration needed
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20160514 21:58:28< aquileia> shadowm: I pinged you and Aginor because I thought you two the most likely to have worked on argument parsing
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20160514 22:04:03< aquileia> gfgtdf: I don't know of a ppa offering boost 1.60 on Trusty, and I doubt travis will announce Xenial support anytime soon
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20160514 22:11:57< shadowm> aquileia: Arguments are parsed by Boost.Program Options, so...
20160514 22:12:16< shadowm> Oh, and by Windows and SDL 2 before that.
20160514 22:12:41< shadowm> In general, I have no idea about master, so I can't answer any questions about master and the insanity going on there.
20160514 22:13:49< shadowm> And more in general, quotes in Windows are used to escape spaces in a parameter.
20160514 22:14:05< shadowm> `foo.exe "bar baz bat"` has only one argument.
20160514 22:14:55< shadowm> `wesnoth.exe "--foo bar"` is obviously not going to work because Wesnoth expects a switch --foo followed by an argument bar, not a switch --foo bar.
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--- Log closed Sun May 15 00:00:25 2016