--- Log opened Tue May 17 00:00:45 2016
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20160517 00:13:57< shadowm> Would anyone happen to know what's the default reference rect for theme UI items when unspecified?
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20160517 00:20:39< shadowm> The ref attribute itself isn't documented in the wiki. God dammit.
20160517 00:21:24< shadowm> Where do all these thing-box-center refs come from, even...
20160517 00:21:56< shadowm> Oh, I see, they're defined by a macro.
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20160517 03:19:31< Nansy> Hello. Is 1.10 the latest stable version?
20160517 03:20:49< shadowm> No, 1.12.5 is.
20160517 03:21:03< Nansy> 1.10 is the only one available at Ubuntu Software Center.
20160517 03:21:53< Nansy> Why 1.12 does not exist there??
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20160517 03:29:52< pydsigner> Nansy: What version of Ubuntu?
20160517 03:29:58< pydsigner> 14.04?
20160517 03:30:24< pydsigner> If you have an older version, you might have to add the Wesnoth PPA
20160517 03:30:35< Nansy> 14.04 x32
20160517 03:30:48< pydsigner> Ok yeah
20160517 03:31:11< pydsigner> https://launchpad.net/~vincent-c/+archive/ubuntu/wesnoth
20160517 03:31:33< pydsigner> Or huh
20160517 03:31:34< pydsigner> Nvm
20160517 03:31:48< pydsigner> sudo apt-get install -t trusty-backports wesnoth-1.12
20160517 03:35:12< Nansy> Thank you pydsigner, I'll try that. But not all linux users use the terminal. Any idea why the latest version isn't available at Ubuntu Software Center?
20160517 03:35:45< shadowm> Because that's how Ubuntu works, basically.
20160517 03:37:49< Nansy> What do you mean? Canonical wants outdated versions on USC? 
20160517 03:37:50< pydsigner> I think you can enable the backports repo from your software sources settings
20160517 03:37:59< pydsigner> Which you can access from the USC
20160517 03:38:28< shadowm> What pydsigner said.
20160517 03:38:51< shadowm> The main repositories don't get newer versions of most software, save a few mission-critical exceptions like Firefox and Chromium.
20160517 03:39:10< pydsigner> And even for those it's security patches
20160517 03:39:20< shadowm> Um, no, I believe it's the full deal for those.
20160517 03:39:28< pydsigner> Hmm really?
20160517 03:39:30< pydsigner> Ok
20160517 03:39:32< shadowm> It's the rest that only gets security patches on top of the frozen versins.
20160517 03:40:31< shadowm> And no, it's not that Canonical wants <negative situation here>. What they want, like most other OS distributions, is a known-good state to work with without the constant breakage being introduced by upstream developers like us.
20160517 03:41:00< pydsigner> Basically, every time a package is updated, it's a possibility for your stuff to break.
20160517 03:41:09< pydsigner> (I'm looking at you, GTK 3.20)
20160517 03:41:13< shadowm> And then, they can roll out security fixes and fixes for critical bugs on top of that without risking any surprising side-effects.
20160517 03:42:00< pydsigner> By using the LTS release for several years, you're basically saying that you'd rather be safe than cutting edge.
20160517 03:42:13< shadowm> To put things into perspective, if you install Wesnoth 1.12, you won't have access to your saves from 1.10 unless you copy them by hand, and even then, they are not guaranteed to work correctly.
20160517 03:43:16< shadowm> If you upgrade from version 12 to version 13 of Acme Industries' Popular Software Product, there's a very real possibility that functionality you previously relied on isn't supported or available anymore. 
20160517 03:43:30< shadowm> So this is why OS distributions stick to known-good versions of software, in a nutshell.
20160517 03:43:56< pydsigner> Unless you do rolling releases like Arch, for instance
20160517 03:44:09< pydsigner> And then you can install updates and come back to a mess.
20160517 03:44:28< shadowm> Which has the obvious downside of occasionally ending up with an unbootable system, yes.
20160517 03:48:35< Nansy> Wait wait... I'm using only LTS for the reason you mentioned. For the same reason I only use stable application versions. Doesn't "stable" mean safe? Shouldn't LTSs accept them? And if not, why are they called "stable"?
20160517 03:49:10< pydsigner> As shadowm mentioned, 1.12 isn't necessarily backwards compatible with 1.10
20160517 03:49:59< pydsigner> At least in the case of Wesnoth, stable means "breaking changes not introduced into this version series and no known bugs released"
20160517 03:50:52< pydsigner> So what PPAs and backports allow you to say is, "I *know* I want *this* version of *this* application" and get exactly that.
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20160517 03:51:24< pydsigner> You choose your risks instead of having to take your bugfixes and breaking changes lumped together
20160517 03:58:25< Nansy> I'm sorry, maybe it's because I'm blonde, but I just don't get it. Someone would expect to see any application's latest stable version available on USC and any outdated versions removed. Just saying.
20160517 03:59:01< shadowm> Sure. That's just not the way LTS distributions work.
20160517 03:59:20< shadowm> There is nothing we can do about it other than tell you how to get around that.
20160517 04:01:22< Nansy> You mean if I wasn't using an LTS, I could find 1.12 in the USC list of available apps?
20160517 04:02:21< pydsigner> Ok so
20160517 04:02:27< pydsigner> Here's how this stuff works
20160517 04:02:49< pydsigner> Every time Ubuntu releases a new version, they do a package freeze
20160517 04:03:51< pydsigner> Except for a few "special" packages like shadowm mentioned, the only updates packages will receive after that point are bugfixes.
20160517 04:04:49< pydsigner> LTS versions are supported longer as in they receive bugfixes longer, meaning that you don't have to do real updates very often
20160517 04:05:20< pydsigner> The new LTS version, 16.04, shipped with BfW 1.12.
20160517 04:05:59< pydsigner> Versions like 14.10 aren't supported at all anymore, but if you are willing to switch versions every 6 months, you will stay pretty much up to date.
20160517 04:06:36< pydsigner> Otherwise, you find a package that you want a new version for and install the PPA or build from source and go on your way.
20160517 04:08:20< pydsigner> But you'll be allowed to make the decision of when to upgrade the package; breaking changes won't be forced upon you when all you want is a critical security bugfix.
20160517 04:16:44< Nansy> So it's not like USC does not provide app upgrades ever. You just have to waaaaait for a new distro version. So each distro version displays different USC list for compatibility reasons? I thought the USC is like a clothes store where you can buy sizes that don't fit you. So, if I was using the 14.04 x64 I could also see apps created for x64 but not the ones created for x32?
20160517 04:22:41< Nansy> Sorry, I've probably misunderstood what exactly USC is and does. 
20160517 04:23:59< Nansy> "Different releases of Ubuntu provide different versions of Wesnoth in their repositories. Often, this version will be older than the most current Wesnoth." (from http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ )
20160517 04:26:02< shadowm> The Ubuntu Software Center is a pretty front-end for Ubuntu's package management system, which interacts with repositories provided by Canonical to obtain software for your system -- ranging from essential components like your kernel and hardware drivers, to optional software like Wesnoth.
20160517 04:28:04< shadowm> Ubuntu, like many other Linux distributions, follows a very rigorous development model to make sure that the system as a whole will work as intended for every user. Twice a year, Canonical releases two versions of Ubuntu; each version provides software that has been frozen at known-good versions that have been extensively tested and guaranteed to play nice with all other software in the system.
20160517 04:29:09< shadowm> This is why the base repositories don't get newer software, bar exceptions. And because some software doesn't work like that (like Wesnoth), Canonical provides a backports repository which users must manually enable in their system settings.
20160517 04:30:46< Nansy> USC is unique for each distro! LOL I thought it was one and common for all distro versions (like a website or something). Stupid me.
20160517 04:30:57< shadowm> So, in exchange for having to walk that extra mile to get software you _know_ you want a newer version of, you get a stable and well-behaved operating system that won't change in behavior and structure unless you specifically upgrade it to a newer distribution.
20160517 04:31:51< shadowm> So consider Ubuntu Software Center a browser for distribution version-specific repositories, yes.
20160517 04:33:18< Nansy> OMG thank you so much for your time to explain this to me! :x
20160517 04:33:58< shadowm> No problem.
20160517 04:34:10< Nansy> "extensively tested" you said. By Canonical you mean?
20160517 04:34:36< shadowm> Primarily by Ubuntu users, but yes, you could see it like that.
20160517 04:35:46< shadowm> Although, the reality is that a developer will look at a bug tracker, see that no-one has reported defects in the software, _maybe_ test it a bit themselves, and just assume it works and that it can be included in the release.
20160517 04:36:06< shadowm> *important defects
20160517 04:36:46< shadowm> This heuristic works well as long as a software package has a sizable user base.
20160517 04:38:06< shadowm> Or as long as the potentially one single person using that software package doesn't decide to keep their findings to themselves.
20160517 04:40:34< Nansy> How can I enable that "backport"? Opening Software&Updates>OtherSoftware I can see a url for google chrome. Same way for Wesnosh? I need to click "add volume" and put there a url?
20160517 04:42:24< shadowm> Click on the Updates tab and choose "Unsupported updates".
20160517 04:43:05< shadowm> (In the same dialog.)
20160517 04:43:40< Nansy> That's already enabled.
20160517 04:44:14< shadowm> Well, typing wesnoth-1.12 in the search box should give you wesnoth-1.12 then.
20160517 04:45:26< Nansy> what search box?
20160517 04:45:42< shadowm> The Software Center's.
20160517 04:47:08< Nansy> No. Only 1.10
20160517 04:47:59< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/921024.png
20160517 04:48:12< shadowm> (You do need to type "wesnoth-1.12" rather than just "wesnoth" for some reason.)
20160517 04:51:37< Nansy> ah! I needed to click "search all categories"
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20160517 05:05:17< Nansy> I installed and it's working. Thank you! If I had added a url (like that of google chrome) ubuntu would suggesting me to upgrade 1.12 to an even newer (but not stable) version? ...or is it already being said to display available updates since I installed it and have that "unsupported updates" enabled?
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20160517 05:07:52< shadowm> Nansy: The backports repository, to my knowledge, will only get future stable versions (like the scheduled 1.12.6 release), and your package manager (the Updates app thing that pops up from time to time) should take care of offering you any future updates done to those packages.
20160517 05:09:35< shadowm> _If_ you were really interested in playing the dev version you'd have to add something that is known in Ubuntu land as a "PPA" (personal package archive). But you really don't need to worry about that, the dev version of Wesnoth at the moment is very broken and unstable and not recommended for most players.
20160517 05:10:30< shadowm> (And that's exactly why it's not going to be in the official backports repo any time soon.)
20160517 05:11:38< shadowm> (The dev version is the 1.13.x series atm. Odd numbers in the second position signify dev versions, even numbers signify stable versions.)
20160517 05:11:57< Nansy> No, no, I'm fine with the stable one. Thank you! I just didn't know what different a url could do.
20160517 05:12:36< shadowm> It's a mechanism to add repositories for when you know their URL.
20160517 05:13:19< Nansy> Another way - same result?
20160517 05:13:24< shadowm> By enabling your distribution's official repositories in the Updates tab, the system is internally adding their URLs without you needing to know them.
20160517 05:13:47< Nansy> ok
20160517 05:16:01< Nansy> 1.12 looks better indeed :-) Music tho is the same . Thankfully. I love the music.
20160517 05:18:35< Nansy> ok time to kill some little monsters :-p 
20160517 05:18:52< Nansy> thank you and bye
20160517 05:18:55< Nansy> :x
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20160517 08:52:32< Sapient> shadowm: yeah I realized that shortly after I typed it
20160517 08:52:43< Sapient> nonetheless I have updated https://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnoth#Prerequisites
20160517 08:53:25< Sapient> hopefully that will save another linux newbie from my pain
20160517 08:55:40< Sapient> I did finally get it to build and played an MP game without any obvious bugs
20160517 08:56:38< vultraz> master?
20160517 08:56:43< Sapient> yeah
20160517 08:57:03< vultraz> good, good
20160517 08:57:28< Sapient> altough I prefer to be called Overlord
20160517 08:58:37 * Sapient winks slyly
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20160517 09:08:06< shadowm> Could you people try to be consistent when editing the players_changelog on master (or anywhere else for that matter)?
20160517 09:08:36< shadowm> That'd be greatly appreciated, especially after 100-odd times of having to tell you the same thing over the past two years.
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20160517 09:12:38< irker391> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 1a76f3b0fffd / changelog data/themes/default.cfg players_changelog: Fix Observers icon overlapping other elements on low resolutions (bug #24455) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1a76f3b0fffd51ff8df7b732e62a0eb4a35f8430
20160517 09:12:41< irker391> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master ca664acc4a2d / changelog data/themes/default.cfg players_changelog: Fix Observers icon overlapping other elements on low resolutions (bug #24455) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ca664acc4a2ded1af59f7debcbb357f6321ae4d9
20160517 09:12:59< shadowm> ^ Nope, it's not a complete fix on master.
20160517 09:13:01< zookeeper> well you need to give names :p
20160517 09:13:09< shadowm> I can give names.
20160517 09:13:15< zookeeper> please do!
20160517 09:13:35< shadowm> The first is SigurdFireDragon or so.
20160517 09:13:50< shadowm> The second is whoever Ryan Roden-Corrent is.
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20160517 09:14:45< shadowm> If those are PRs then responsibility for ensuring proper formatting of _everything_ falls on whoever merged them.
20160517 09:15:43< shadowm> vultraz: Have you decided yet whether we'll stick to that hideous font and font size scheme on master?
20160517 09:16:02< shadowm> I need to know so I can decide whether to waste time completing the Observers icon fix on master or not
20160517 09:16:11< shadowm> *waste time and lose a lot of hair
20160517 09:16:42< zookeeper> by consistency i'm presuming you mean at least the missing empty lines between sections
20160517 09:16:49< shadowm> Yes.
20160517 09:17:27< shadowm> Also, apparently 1.13.5 will feature exactly two non-campaign non-translation changes that are considered visible to users.
20160517 09:17:38< shadowm> I'm not buying that.
20160517 09:18:02< shadowm> (And only one if I don't count my own commit.)
20160517 09:20:06< vultraz> shadowm: yes
20160517 09:20:11< vultraz> we're not changing the font
20160517 09:20:17< vultraz> the size is up for debate
20160517 09:20:22< shadowm> gfgtdf: The very first commit after 1.12.5 was tagged is a bug fix without a changelog entry. Why is this?
20160517 09:20:29< vultraz> (unless you can also suggest a better font)
20160517 09:21:19< zookeeper> vultraz, so when are you going to change the font sizes back to what they were?
20160517 09:21:25< vultraz> zookeeper: never
20160517 09:21:33< shadowm> vultraz: DejaVu Sans.
20160517 09:21:54< vultraz> zookeeper: the point of the change was also to have a bigger font for readability reasons
20160517 09:22:05< vultraz> BTW, GUI1 is still using dvs, I'll change that later
20160517 09:22:14< zookeeper> vultraz, you do realize that the font is _smaller_ in some places?
20160517 09:22:40< shadowm> Let's go back to DejaVu Sans, it wasn't as obnoxious as Latte or so.
20160517 09:23:41< vultraz> :|\
20160517 09:24:03< vultraz> DVS does not look that good
20160517 09:24:16< zookeeper> i can live with the big fonts that make everything look like it was designed for kids with bad eyesight, but i can't live with the obnoxiously small right panel (etc) fonts which render like crap.
20160517 09:25:31< vultraz> zookeeper: obviously that's a bug and will be fixed
20160517 09:25:51< zookeeper> obviously? it wasn't obvious at all to me
20160517 09:26:21< shadowm> vultraz: It doesn't look good but it isn't obnoxious either.
20160517 09:26:42< vultraz> zookeeper: yes, why would we ship something with font too small
20160517 09:26:47< vultraz> shadowm: explain "obnoxious"
20160517 09:27:08< shadowm> I already told you I can't really explain it, I only know that the new font's glyphs irritate me greatly.
20160517 09:27:43< shadowm> gfgtdf: I see LoW commits without changelog entries in 1.12 too.
20160517 09:27:56< zookeeper> vultraz, because you'd think it's good UI design? that was what i had every reason to assume was going on.
20160517 09:28:06< shadowm> Ideally this will be addressed before 00:00 UTC, otherwise I'll fill in with random keysmashing.
20160517 09:29:36< irker391> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 ef1de8f7196e / changelog: Fix typo https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ef1de8f7196eb764c3903f1889e839fcf3e3dc31
20160517 09:31:50< irker391> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 f17a2f1fcf49 / players_changelog: Sync highly user-relevant changelog entry to players_changelog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f17a2f1fcf498b73e064f7dd447d676ffc66f9f2
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20160517 09:33:22< shadowm> vultraz: Tell me when you finish messing with font sizes then so I can waste my time and lose hair fixing the Observers icon for you.
20160517 09:33:33< vultraz> k
20160517 09:34:06< shadowm> Or you can do that last part yourself, but I suspect I'd still complain less about it anyhow.
20160517 09:35:42< shadowm> Or if you or anyone else has been secretly working on a rewrite of the theme engine for the past few months, this would be the most auspicious time to inform me of such a thing.
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20160517 09:36:58< vultraz> I have not
20160517 09:39:36< vultraz> Aginor needs to finish his work before anything of the sort can happen
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20160517 10:01:57< irker391> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 00975dcf6ff4 / changelog data/themes/default.cfg players_changelog: Fix ToD schedule progress label overlapping other items on low resolutions https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/00975dcf6ff411f621a33b18d57f0d43432cf705
20160517 10:02:07< irker391> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 321010ca5e4c / changelog data/themes/default.cfg players_changelog: Fix ToD schedule progress label overlapping other items on low resolutions https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/321010ca5e4cc0b7bd104faedff6fb6cd4409317
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20160517 10:05:12< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9434 (1.12 - f17a2f1 : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build has errored.
20160517 10:05:12< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/130786943
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20160517 10:05:26 * shadowm stabs Travis in the eye.
20160517 10:07:13< aquileia> Jetrel, Jetrel_bot: As I said on Sunday, I'd appreciate your feedback on https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/compare/master...aquileia:sprites
20160517 10:11:03< aquileia> If you don't mind, I'll probably commit everything but lancer-ne-run and post that in the "Mainline campaign sprites and animations needed" thread for shading
20160517 10:13:18< aquileia> shadowm: If I find the time, I'll try (once more) to get travis to skip non-code changes
20160517 10:13:31< shadowm> Is that even possible?
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20160517 10:13:33< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9433 (1.12 - ef1de8f : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build has errored.
20160517 10:13:33< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/130786457
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20160517 10:13:53< shadowm> I don't think it's a good idea, anyway. I believe there's a few WML files that even the test suite relies on?
20160517 10:14:10< shadowm> It certainly would be a terrible idea on master, which sees the most activity and has the WML unit tests.
20160517 10:14:40< aquileia> shadowm: WML is code, so I didn't mean to exclude that
20160517 10:14:57< shadowm> Oh, right.
20160517 10:15:03< shadowm> I guess this is apropos of the changelog commits.
20160517 10:15:10< aquileia> Yep
20160517 10:16:09 * zookeeper wonders how much watts travis consumes on average
20160517 10:16:15< zookeeper> many, even
20160517 10:16:45< aquileia> Aaand my branch already conflicts in the changelog, good that I kept it a separate commit
20160517 10:19:46< aquileia> zookeeper: Just a rough guess, but 40W*1/2h*5 jobs would mean 0.1 kWh per build which is about 2 cent
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20160517 10:20:53< shadowm> zookeeper, gfgtdf, celticminstrel, Aginor, vultraz, Ivanovic, aquileia, loonycyborg, whoever else: Oh, and don't forget, only about 14 hours left until 1.12.6. I hope you've got everything in order.
20160517 10:21:18< shadowm> A bit less than 14.
20160517 10:21:48< shadowm> I mean, there was an email and then there has been a topic for a while, so this is obviously old news.
20160517 10:21:59 * zookeeper knows
20160517 10:23:12< aquileia> shadowm: As zookeeper is against adding graphics, my changes will only land on master anyhow
20160517 10:25:35< zookeeper> 1.12.6 will be glorious due to the river ford transitions alone
20160517 10:30:11< aquileia> zookeeper: tsk, tsk... and you keep others from adding to that glory ;)
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20160517 10:39:11< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9436 (1.12 - 321010c : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build has errored.
20160517 10:39:11< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/130792494
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20160517 10:45:22< zookeeper> too bad we won't be able to fix the MP lobby text selection/paste problems.
20160517 10:45:33< zookeeper> or at least i'm pretty sure we won't
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20160517 13:40:54< zookeeper> uh. can i pull/update a branch without switching to it first?
20160517 13:44:03< zookeeper> apparently not, at least not in a way i'd be willing to try.
20160517 13:52:43< loonycyborg> zookeeper: you mean git fetch?
20160517 13:53:16< zookeeper> i don't know. but i don't need it anymore anyway.
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20160517 14:43:25< gfgtdf> 20160517 09:20:22< shadowm> gfgtdf: The very first commit after 1.12.5 was tagged is a bug fix without a changelog entry. Why is this?
20160517 14:43:36< gfgtdf> shadowm: don't know which commit you mean
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20160517 16:43:21< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.12 249132984183 / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/chapter2/06_Acquaintance_in_Need.cfg: fix olurf recuitslist in Acquaintance_in_Need https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/249132984183d6331eaf8ac811cf92bce4a0a72d
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20160517 16:45:43< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.12 6a0432991a6d / changelog: Update changelog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6a0432991a6d3b032fe896117b8f4f0cfac9a836
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20160517 17:02:50< gfgtdf> zookeeper: can i use {WESNOTH_VERSION} like a nomrla macro or onyl inisde ifver ?
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20160517 17:07:27< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9437 (1.12 - 2491329 : gfgtdf): The build passed.
20160517 17:07:27< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/130886453
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20160517 17:08:08< gfgtdf> nother question: can i use attribute = << >>  + "" when i want maco expansion onyl in the second part ?
20160517 17:09:02< celticminstrel> You should be able to, but I tried it once and seem to recall that it didn't work... which would be a bug if true.
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20160517 17:10:40< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9438 (1.12 - 6a04329 : gfgtdf): The build passed.
20160517 17:10:40< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/130887248
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20160517 17:14:03< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: hmm ok thx
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20160517 17:25:33< zookeeper> gfgtdf, i don't know what it is
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20160517 19:11:39< irker367> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master bcd48928f4f3 / / (7 files in 6 dirs): updated RACV translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/bcd48928f4f30eac0e93a2f5a1faf4e8f3e82553
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20160517 19:11:41< irker367> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 b453c37756da / po/ (5 files in 5 dirs): updated RACV translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b453c37756da5cd55b4989e77b19391feaa253c0
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20160517 19:28:57< gfgtdf> shadowm: i just tried to playtest LoW in 1.12.5 and it seems like from scenario 9 onwards its even more bugged: In particular somehow the whole recuitlist is removed, and some human sides cannot recuit anything
20160517 19:31:06< gfgtdf> shadowm: the last chapter (5) is already disabled for mp afaik, but now i wonder whether we shodul disable chapters 3 and 4 too.
20160517 19:31:26< zookeeper> that should at least be easy to patch up by setting the recruit lists for affected sides in a start event or something.
20160517 19:32:23< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm yes it was a typo i meant: 'the whole recalllist is removed, and some human sides cannot recuit anything'
20160517 19:32:33< zookeeper> oh, right.
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20160517 19:45:26< gfgtdf> also for some unkno reason side 1 (Kalewnz, human) doesn't ahve any units (not even a leader) instead, there is a 'Kalenz' unit from side 4 (Monsters, ai) where side1s leader shoudl be
20160517 19:46:02< gfgtdf> then, that Kalenz starts to recuit loayalits and attacks olurf.
20160517 19:46:13< zookeeper> sounds wonderful.
20160517 19:47:28< zookeeper> none of this affects SP, right? :P
20160517 19:49:02< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i didnt test, but i don't think sp is affected.
20160517 19:49:27< zookeeper> that's mildly comforting, at least
20160517 19:59:36< vultraz> Proof themewml is crazy: increasing font sizes renders button overlays unable to show :|
20160517 20:04:58< vultraz> also font sizes are somehow tied to gui1 button widget sizes
20160517 20:14:04< vultraz> ok, so overlays mostly display properly is SIZE_NORMAL is 14
20160517 20:14:15< vultraz> but stuff gets slightly misaligned/cut off
20160517 20:14:25< gfgtdf> mattsc: in 1.13 LoW scenario3 i get a 'atempt to calla nil value stack traceback:' 'string "(...):retreat()" attempt to index a nil value'
20160517 20:14:34< gfgtdf> mattsc: i think this is related to lua ai code
20160517 20:14:35 * vultraz throws themewml out the window
20160517 20:17:12< gfgtdf> hmm i get the imporession that at lest on x16 acceleration the 1.12 is faster than 1.13
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20160517 20:23:43< gfgtdf> i now get lua error 'attempt to call filed 'child' (a nil value)' in parse_fog_cfg (in wesnoth 1.13+dev)
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20160517 20:41:18< vultraz> Ok, I give up
20160517 20:41:21< vultraz> this is impossible
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20160517 20:49:41 * celticminstrel hugs vultraz.
20160517 20:50:15< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master cbb73708fbe4 / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/chapter2/07_Elves_Last_Stand.cfg: fix LoW scenario 7 recuitlist https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cbb73708fbe498d6cbf1d0fcf253ba2c530bcea9
20160517 20:53:37< vultraz> ok, I might have something
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20160517 21:05:56< irker367> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 52cba5fc639a / / (6 files in 4 dirs): Enabled Lato for GUI1 and adjusted assigned sizes accordingly https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/52cba5fc639ab2df813306dd60659124e096626f
20160517 21:06:08< vultraz> If there's something screwed up, do let me know.
20160517 21:06:16< SigurdFD> shadowm: what was wrong with the changelog entries in the pr's I made?
20160517 21:07:19< SigurdFD> when I made them, I looked for the most recent similar section I could find and modeled it after that.
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20160517 21:26:08< zookeeper> celticminstrel, was the DW flaming sword hyphen change unnecessary in 1.12, or should it be backported?
20160517 21:28:56< celticminstrel> It was unnecessary.
20160517 21:29:03< celticminstrel> Pretty sure.
20160517 21:29:40< zookeeper> okay
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20160517 21:37:19< shadowm> SigurdFD: You repeated a previous contributor's mistake, that's all.
20160517 21:38:11< Ivanovic> shadowm: have fun releasing
20160517 21:38:22< Ivanovic> my inbox is empty, so any translation update getting in "in time" is committed
20160517 21:38:32< Ivanovic> n8
20160517 21:38:36< zookeeper> ...a bunch of advanced preferences are still missing tooltips
20160517 21:38:41< shadowm> gfgtdf: If you really want to disable parts of LoW I won't stop you, just as long as you know what you are doing.
20160517 21:38:45< shadowm> *LoW MP
20160517 21:38:54< shadowm> !time utc
20160517 21:38:54< shikadibot> shadowm: The current time (UTC) is Tue May 17 21:38:55 2016.
20160517 21:39:15< shadowm> <gfgtdf> shadowm: don't know which commit you mean
20160517 21:39:57< shadowm> `git log --reverse 1.12.5..1.12`, first commit is 8f770ba95b89e1be2592de66877ad73397a91586 .
20160517 21:44:19< irker367> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 80993dd1edac / changelog players_changelog: Fix LoW's changelog entries for gfgtdf https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/80993dd1edac9bd80888374e1bdd52449d6e19e8
20160517 21:44:35< gfgtdf> shadowm: hmm i thought that was before the 1.12.5 release, sinc github sais that commit is from october and 1.12.5 was in november
20160517 21:47:01< shadowm> Well, that's a weird glitch. Though it doesn't really change the fact that the bug was never mentioned in the changelog by number.
20160517 21:48:59< gfgtdf> shadowm: hmm i dont realla remember that commit bug i'll just make an entry from that bugreport.
20160517 21:49:12< shadowm> It's too late now if it was in 1.12.5.
20160517 21:49:14< gfgtdf> commit but*
20160517 21:49:16< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.12 2b4723b3da19 / changelog: Update changelog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2b4723b3da19d1939e9f22d751f6eda70632398e
20160517 21:49:28< gfgtdf> shadowm: ididn't you just said it wasnt in 1.12.5 ?
20160517 21:49:43< shadowm> <shadowm> Well, that's a weird glitch.
20160517 21:50:09< shadowm> Referring to the fact that it appears in the 1.12.5..1.12 series for me even though the commit and author dates both predate the 1.12.5 tag.
20160517 21:50:35< shadowm> And so does the commit itself.
20160517 21:50:44< shadowm> Listwise.
20160517 21:50:46< gfgtdf> shadowm: ok. i thought you meant a glich in THE github ui.
20160517 21:51:25< celticminstrel> shadowm: That could mean that it was implemented on a fork/branch before 1.12.5 was tagged, but merged in afterwards.
20160517 21:52:05< shadowm> Hm, actually...
20160517 21:52:10< shadowm> !commit acafe54705f5b573f8a0cf9873e34b6f9128c968
20160517 21:52:11< shikadibot> shadowm: Revision acafe54705f5 (gfgtdf) on Tue Dec 29 00:01:05 2015:
20160517 21:52:11< shikadibot> shadowm: Merge pull request #532 from wesnoth/gfgtdf-patch-1
20160517 21:52:11< shikadibot> shadowm:  
20160517 21:52:11< shikadibot> shadowm: attempt to fix saves from replay
20160517 21:52:11< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/acafe54705f5
20160517 21:52:41< shadowm> celticminstrel: You are right, it's part of that merge that took place _after_ 1.12.5.
20160517 21:52:57< shadowm> Okay, so it isn't a glitch after all and the changelog entry was needed.
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20160517 22:04:29< shadowm> Also, I might not actually be back until 01:00 UTC because when I set the date and time for the release I had completely forgotten about DST ending on May 15.
20160517 22:04:56< celticminstrel> Huh, DST ended while I was gone? And I didn't even notice...
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20160517 22:05:15< shadowm> For Chile.
20160517 22:05:29< celticminstrel> ...oh, right. 
20160517 22:05:34< celticminstrel> Silly me.
20160517 22:05:36< zookeeper> for the record, i don't have anything pending.
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20160517 22:07:18< zookeeper> and if i've broken something, now's the time to tell me since i'm gonna drop off in a moment
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20160517 22:19:53< SigurdFD> vultraz: with the Lato for GUI1, it fixed some things, and some others got out of whack.
20160517 22:20:11< shadowm> zookeeper: I've been playing for the past few days and I don't remember seeing anything different about fords if that's what you're asking.
20160517 22:20:25< zookeeper> lies!
20160517 22:20:46< shadowm> I haven't looked at the bug report that prompted that change anyway, so...
20160517 22:21:03< zookeeper> no report, which i find odd since it was such a glaring glitch.
20160517 22:22:08< zookeeper> i mean just look at the ford in the first DiD scenario
20160517 22:22:14< shadowm> No-one's ever pointed out the escheresquian castle/cave transitions in my campaigns either.
20160517 22:22:31< zookeeper> full of those awful bright concave bits
20160517 22:22:35< zookeeper> the... what?
20160517 22:23:53< shadowm> I use certain mainline terrains in arrangements that produce impossible transitions that wouldn't be out of place in an M. C. Escher painting.
20160517 22:24:11< zookeeper> oh. sounds excellent.
20160517 22:24:14< shadowm> Out of necessity, mind you.
20160517 22:24:54< zookeeper> i'd certainly enjoy looking at those if i was staying ->
20160517 22:25:05< shadowm> Oh, that ford glitch.
20160517 22:25:14< shadowm> I always assumed it was by design.
20160517 22:25:30< zookeeper> nope
20160517 22:25:50< shadowm> And again, I'm so used to weird terrain transitions and there not being anyone able to fix them...
20160517 22:26:38< SigurdFD> vultraz: in the right side unit sidbar any lowercase q,p,g,y & the like get clipped at the bottom in at least the following fields:
20160517 22:26:54< SigurdFD> name, type, ability, race, traits
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20160517 23:06:13< SigurdFD> vultraz: also HP, XP, & MP have some clipping
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20160517 23:11:51< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 5374abef51d9 / src/replay_controller.cpp: fix replay buttons not disapearing https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5374abef51d9fa6e504bc81dcdb712c569a30745
20160517 23:11:53< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 3dbafac91308 / src/variable_info.cpp: refactor variable_info.cpp https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3dbafac913087506c9eb596bec49055a2bb27397
20160517 23:11:55< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 6d7549ed9966 / src/variable_info.cpp: fix mode=replace in [set_variables] https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6d7549ed99668415c91b72f6582edb49ae3ddb39
20160517 23:18:03< gfgtdf> vultraz: do you have a plan on how do deal with the missing characters in the lato font ?
20160517 23:18:47< celticminstrel> I'm not convinced that we should stick with Lato.
20160517 23:19:06< celticminstrel> Leave it until the next release, definitely, but...
20160517 23:19:33< celticminstrel> The missing characters seem like a problem, and it has no monospaced variant, so you'd need a different font for the monospaced bits.
20160517 23:20:09< shadowm> The latter isn't really supposed to be a problem.
20160517 23:20:39< shadowm> By definition, monospace text will look different to the rest, so of course it doesn't have to be from the same font metafamily.
20160517 23:20:56< celticminstrel> Well, yes, it's not really a problem worth dropping Lato for.
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20160517 23:28:24< vultraz> celticminstrel: alternative that's not DVS?
20160517 23:28:34< celticminstrel> No clue, sorry.
20160517 23:28:53< celticminstrel> If I find one though, I'll let you know.
20160517 23:29:11< vultraz> (Or a vera sans derivative)
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20160517 23:30:29< vultraz> gfgtdf: im not sure
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20160517 23:32:50< gfgtdf> vultraz: maybe you could at lest change the symbol in the hotkey menu for the time while we use lato?
20160517 23:32:58< vultraz> yes
20160517 23:33:46< gfgtdf> vultraz: there are some other missing thing though, for example the name of the guy for the marathi translation in the credits cannot be displayed.
20160517 23:35:56< vultraz> Those are less pressing
20160517 23:36:28< shadowm> You really shouldn't insist on only considering alternatives that are not DejaVu Sans. What was the reason for dropping DejaVu Sans in the first place? It was purely non-technical.
20160517 23:37:01< shadowm> If any given alternative to DejaVu Sans can't be used for technical reasons then we should go back to DejaVu Sans. It's as simple as that.
20160517 23:37:13< shadowm> Like it or not, technical issues take priority.
20160517 23:38:47< shadowm> Also, reverting Lato or switching to another font is definitely not a decision that can be delayed until a week before 1.13.5, as your struggles with GUI1 and font size selections over the past few months have demonstrated.
20160517 23:39:26< shadowm> So I trust you will at least take that last point into consideration so that development isn't delayed any more than it absolutely needs to be.
20160517 23:41:49< vultraz> The issue we had with Cairo on Windows seemed to affect Lato less than DVS. However, since the last time you showed me a screenshot of your preferences dialog with DVS it was a 1-1 match with what I saw (font included excluding one minor kerning issue), I'm now no longer sure what the repercussions of disabling subpixel handling on windows are anymore)
20160517 23:43:03< shadowm> There were never any "repercussions" other than not having smudgy sloppily-kerned fonts on Windows.
20160517 23:43:25< shadowm> I believe that anyone with a drop of common sense would find the latter to be a good thing.
20160517 23:43:50< shadowm> Do I need to refer you to the bug report for a 6th time?
20160517 23:44:06< vultraz> No
20160517 23:44:08< gfgtdf> vultraz: about: https://gna.org/bugs/?24653 if you don
20160517 23:44:35< shadowm> Then I am not sure what it is you're trying to say.
20160517 23:44:35< vultraz> Lato's glyphs are thicker than DVS's, which I believe is why it handles AA better
20160517 23:44:36< gfgtdf> 't want to revert that commit you could also out the stuff that was previosuly dont in that casses constructor in a normal function 
20160517 23:44:51< gfgtdf> and call that then where originally the object was constructed
20160517 23:45:21< gfgtdf> s/dont/done
20160517 23:46:05< vultraz> i could do that
20160517 23:46:34< shadowm> DejaVu Sans "handles" AA just fine, it's just that your expectations are incompatible with the font.
20160517 23:46:40< gfgtdf> that is execpt setting the 'disp ' object ofc
20160517 23:48:02< celticminstrel> AA?
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20160517 23:48:21< celticminstrel> Oh, antialiasing?
20160517 23:48:24< shadowm> Yes.
20160517 23:48:24< vultraz> yes
20160517 23:48:47< shadowm> Also, completely independent of any of this, several UI elements (the menu buttons most notably) are missing frames.
20160517 23:48:56< shadowm> Have been, for quite a while.
20160517 23:49:11< shadowm> And the menu buttons in particular are currently glitch magnets for that reason.
20160517 23:49:55< vultraz> i have yet to figure out why in-game only
20160517 23:49:58< shadowm> Maybe the status bar items work okay with this scheme, but buttons really ought to show that they are clickable elements.
20160517 23:50:17< shadowm> This is a basic a11y principle.
20160517 23:51:14< shadowm> Also free-floating UI tooltips and chat lines have a much tinier font size than the average for some reason.
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20160517 23:52:40< shadowm> gfgtdf: Errors when building on master with gcc 5.3.1: http://pastebin.com/raw/M8qHArb0
20160517 23:53:24< vultraz> why does that just tell me "please refresh the page to continue
20160517 23:53:25< vultraz> "
20160517 23:54:11< shadowm> I don't know, works for me even logged off.
20160517 23:54:14-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.12.6 ETA: May 18th 01:00 UTC | String freeze active on 1.12 | Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20160517 23:54:42< vultraz> I'm not getting any errors but I am getting "src\variable_info.cpp|376|warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X + c) < X is always false [-Wstrict-overflow]|"
20160517 23:55:17< gfgtdf> shadowm: hmm both startindex and endindex are function paremters it cannot know anything about them
20160517 23:57:22< gfgtdf> shadowm: and even if ... . Thats exactly what assertions shodul do: contain a statement that is always true. So the compiler shouldnt warn about the expressiob beeing alwas true in this case.
20160517 23:57:51< irker367> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master ea0a9ff43be7 / src/tooltips.cpp: Bumped size of GUI1 tooltip text https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ea0a9ff43be73fae2270188a38471b609568682f
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--- Log closed Wed May 18 00:00:53 2016