--- Log opened Wed May 18 00:00:53 2016
20160518 00:04:00< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master dd1f7a69e188 / src/variable_info.cpp: Attempt to fix gcc warning https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/dd1f7a69e188ef5b9d8ce1ede2b8147b90715dd1
20160518 00:04:08< gfgtdf> shadowm: try that ^
20160518 00:04:38< vultraz> that works
20160518 00:17:09< shadowm> vultraz: It's the same thing, except that I'm using -Werror like I should, and you are not (which is terrible).
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20160518 00:17:58< shadowm> gfgtdf: assert(true) is a pointless statement and not what assertion checks are for.
20160518 00:18:47< shadowm> That said, consider that a general statement of a universal fact everyone can agree on, and not an assessment of your code, because I haven't really looked at it.
20160518 00:19:38< celticminstrel> Normally, I think assert() would be used with a condition that should always be true but that you are unable to prove will actually always be true.
20160518 00:20:13< shadowm> gfgtdf: Confirmed it works.
20160518 00:23:01< irker367> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 f55ab1310227 / changelog players_changelog: Changelogs https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f55ab13102270f882b64a0f8cdc577006fb1b8ff
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20160518 00:28:53< irker367> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 7058077c1c0f / / (110 files in 28 dirs): pot and documentation update, no string changes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7058077c1c0f963265a403775b8fa86ff78c164f
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20160518 00:34:17< shadowm> OK, doing it now.
20160518 00:35:12< irker367> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 ab913c599648 / Doxyfile changelog players_changelog src/wesconfig.h: Version 1.12.6 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ab913c599648ec815bf775ac91f5320a9fccee2e
20160518 00:38:42-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.12.6 release process in progress | String freeze active on 1.12 | Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
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20160518 00:39:48< celticminstrel> By the way, projectfiles/XCode/Info.plist should be added to the list of files to update with version bumps. (I think I alreadu bumped it to 1.12.6 though.)
20160518 00:40:06< celticminstrel> ^already
20160518 00:42:05< shadowm> celticminstrel: Update https://wiki.wesnoth.org/ReleasingWesnoth#Preparation_steps then and notify loonycyborg and vultraz (or whoever will make 1.13.5 when the time comes).
20160518 00:42:22< shadowm> The file doesn't exist in 1.12.
20160518 00:42:41< shadowm> Okay, it does, but the dir is Xcode, not XCode.
20160518 00:42:53< celticminstrel> Ah, case sensitivity.
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20160518 00:43:20< shadowm> Suchs that the OS X people can't just run a script that will determine the correct value from src/wesconfig.h instead of delegating this task to the release team.
20160518 00:44:43< celticminstrel> There is a command-line tool for editing plist files. I think its name changed at some point after 10.7 though.
20160518 00:45:11< shadowm> Yeah, but like, automate it.
20160518 00:45:32< shadowm> Make it a mandatory step of the build process that the user/release team don't need to do themselves.
20160518 00:46:33< celticminstrel> Even if it's automated, the result would need to be committed.
20160518 00:46:53< shadowm> Why?
20160518 00:48:04< celticminstrel> ...well, I suppose you could use some sort of template mechanism to generate the Info.plist...
20160518 00:48:48< celticminstrel> Most of the contents of Info.plist is important information that needs to be tracked.
20160518 00:49:32< shadowm> Love how the AI insists on exposing Konrad, _the side's leader_ to enemy attacks.
20160518 00:53:05< shadowm> Okay, big problem here.
20160518 00:53:07< shadowm>     20160517 20:52:52 error scripting/lua: [string "..."]:5: attempt to index field 'mp_settings' (a nil value)
20160518 00:53:16< shadowm> When starting LoW in SP mode.
20160518 00:53:22< shadowm> gfgtdf: ^
20160518 00:55:09< irker367> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.12 1547948e5afd / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/chapter1/01_The_Uprooting.cfg: fix LoW in sp https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1547948e5afd6160daf811a01dda6487519cadf2
20160518 00:55:15< gfgtdf> shadowm: try that ^
20160518 00:57:03< shadowm> Works.
20160518 00:58:08< irker367> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 8718cd3d6f5b / changelog players_changelog: Line-wrap the changelogs https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8718cd3d6f5b256d65eec7f112569f37b173838a
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20160518 01:17:22< irker367> wesnoth: shikadilord wesnoth: 8718cd3d6f5b tagged as 1.12.6
20160518 01:25:28< irker367> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 3be79d093e85 / Doxyfile changelog players_changelog src/wesconfig.h: Bump version https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3be79d093e85de14b15c16f0992b67d8669a7b48
20160518 01:25:53-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.12.6 tagged, announcing at some point within the next 365 days | String freeze active on 1.12 | Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20160518 01:26:16< shadowm> loonycyborg, ancestral-who-doesn't-read-logs: Time for you to do your stuff.
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20160518 01:32:40< shadowm> Okay, what the actual...
20160518 01:33:15< shadowm> I guess oonly loonycyborg can see this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/malware
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20160518 01:35:38< shadowm> So this "malware scan" thing is complaining that it can't unpack wesnoth-1.12.6.tar.bz2.
20160518 01:36:12< shadowm> However, the SHA1 reported by SF.net matches the file I have (and its clone on my desktop) which can certainly be unpacked without errors.
20160518 01:36:25< celticminstrel> Weird.
20160518 01:36:30< shadowm> I guess it's just SF.net being stupid again. I'll just ignore it.
20160518 01:36:37< shadowm> It does appear as "whitelisted" for some reason anyway.
20160518 01:37:03-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160518 01:37:11< shadowm> But really SF.net, if you want us to take you seriously you need to learn to bunzip2 files.
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20160518 01:40:19< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9453 (1.12.6 - 8718cd3 : Ignacio R. Morelle): The build passed.
20160518 01:40:19< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/131012237
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20160518 02:03:39< mattsc> gfgtdf: I saw your bug report.  I’ll have a look at it, but it might be a few days before I’ll have time.
20160518 02:05:00< shadowm> I've posted the 1.12.6 announcement draft: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44161
20160518 02:05:27< shadowm> mattsc: Did I get the AI items right in the Miscellaneous section?
20160518 02:06:19< irker367> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 87f071661646 / data/gui/window/lobby_main.cfg: Reduced brightness of lobby game list border https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/87f0716616466df5ad656300784ff3735c894e5b
20160518 02:08:14< vultraz> Sadly, GUI2 lobby isn't ready for deployment
20160518 02:10:42< vultraz> Still that long-standing issue with listbox rows resizing to deal with..
20160518 02:10:50< vultraz> Plus some issues with the chat area
20160518 02:11:26< mattsc> shadowm: yes, those sound great
20160518 02:11:56< shadowm> OK, cool, that has to be the only announcement that took me less than 30 minute to write.
20160518 02:12:26< vultraz> Which does remind me, the new GUI2 addons manager is mostly ready, interface-wise.
20160518 02:12:33< mattsc> shadowm: I guess if you’re using it as a name, it should be goto CA, not go-to CA, but that would really be nitpicking :P
20160518 02:12:39< vultraz> Just needs someone with le network skillz to make it functional 
20160518 02:13:05< vultraz> ( loonycyborg maybe?)
20160518 02:13:25< shadowm> mattsc: Okay.
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20160518 05:47:29< zookeeper> vultraz, got a screenshot of the latest version of it?
20160518 05:48:03< vultraz> ?
20160518 05:48:57< zookeeper> by default you should assume i'm referring to the latest thing you've said
20160518 05:50:29< vultraz> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-mR9s8FduLLNTZ1ZUhQLW9aQm8/view?usp=sharing
20160518 05:51:32< zookeeper> great
20160518 05:56:46< zookeeper> so is this intended as a simple replacement of the current one and not intended to actually fix any of its major usability problems (aside from showing the description), or do you want to hear what it _should_ do? :p
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20160518 06:17:32< vultraz> hit me
20160518 06:19:44< shadowm> The +/- column is a huge waste of space. An add-on can't be both installable and uninstallable at the same time.
20160518 06:28:00< vultraz> shadowm: you're forgetting upgradable
20160518 06:28:13< vultraz> that replaces Install there when necessary
20160518 06:28:28< shadowm> Maybe that ought to be done in a way that requires less space anyway.
20160518 06:28:33< vultraz> it's there to enable people to manage addons without having to click on them first
20160518 06:28:45< shadowm> Not just for the benefit of that large audience you routinely neglect, mind you, but also to reduce visual clutter.
20160518 06:30:05< vultraz> I had considered stacking those button vertically, but it looks ugly
20160518 06:30:13< vultraz> and very hard to distinguish options at a glance
20160518 06:30:57< shadowm> Menu?
20160518 06:31:04< shadowm> Like a combobox.
20160518 06:31:26< vultraz> That would render it pointless
20160518 06:31:39< vultraz> Its to allow one click instead of two
20160518 06:31:41< vultraz> It's*
20160518 06:32:31< pydsigner> Considering that you can't select multiple add-ons for simultaneous install I'm going to call that premature optimization
20160518 06:32:48< vultraz> That's something I'm planning to add
20160518 06:32:58< shadowm> I assumed he had already added that.
20160518 06:33:10< vultraz> Keep in mind this is still non-functional
20160518 06:33:35< vultraz> Since I was told not to try to touch the network code or be prepared to forsake my sanity.
20160518 06:33:43< vultraz> All it can do now is display details
20160518 06:33:51< shadowm> At ths point I don't care if you lose your sanity.
20160518 06:34:12< shadowm> Unless it results in Lato being replaced with Comic Sans.
20160518 06:34:46< vultraz> I would replace it with Comic Sans in GUI2 and Papyrus in GUI1
20160518 06:34:47< shadowm> Although, I'd be more concerned about you not screwing it up and introducing new really-hard-to-debug issues.
20160518 06:39:59< zookeeper> so, a new add-on browser really needs to help people not get swamped by the gazillion add-ons there are. if we're going to have a rating system of any kind in the future, the design needs to be able to accommodate it.
20160518 06:40:01< zookeeper> also, perhaps more importantly, i think we really should have an extra filter toggle for choosing whether you want to see all add-ons, or only finished ones (version >=1.0). there ought to be plenty of space for adding such a drop-down list of radio buttons or something, next to filter/installationstatus.
20160518 06:40:21< vultraz> Yes
20160518 06:40:34< vultraz> Still working on making that possible
20160518 06:40:48< vultraz> Right now stuff like that would have to be in settings
20160518 06:42:38< Sapient> Comic Sans? oh boy 
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20160518 06:43:27< shadowm> zookeeper: I have a finished add-on and it's not version 1.0 yet.
20160518 06:43:31< shadowm> Just saying
20160518 06:43:48< zookeeper> well it should be
20160518 06:44:22< shadowm> I don't feel particularly comfortable about packaging it as 1.0 without the portraits it's currently missing.
20160518 06:46:41< zookeeper> ...
20160518 06:47:35< shadowm> Well, sorry that not all of us share _your_ standards.
20160518 06:47:49< zookeeper> ...
20160518 06:48:58< pydsigner> Everyone does versions differently
20160518 06:49:15< zookeeper> so you're uncomfortable packaging it as 1.0 because it's missing stuff, meaning that it'd be uncomfortable if people downloaded it thinking it's complete even though it's missing stuff, but you still don't want people to not see it if they only want to see finished/complete add-ons? :p
20160518 06:49:17< pydsigner> Some people even start counting at 1.0
20160518 06:49:46< shadowm> It's complete gameplay wise, not development wise.
20160518 06:50:07< zookeeper> nothing's ever complete development wise
20160518 06:51:24< shadowm> Okay, fine, I guess it'll be relegated to the incomplete section then.
20160518 06:51:27< zookeeper> the version number is the only thing that can be used to tell "WIP" and "complete/finished/whatever" apart, which is a very useful thing to be able to do.
20160518 06:52:12< shadowm> And what if someone changes their mind _after_ version 1.0 and starts adding scenarios?
20160518 06:52:25< shadowm> Or changing things significantly in some other way?
20160518 06:52:29< pydsigner> What about just adding a key to the _server.pbl?
20160518 06:52:41< pydsigner> wip=yes
20160518 06:52:42< shadowm> That's the simplest option.
20160518 06:52:43< zookeeper> what do you mean, what if?
20160518 06:52:54< shadowm> Yes, I mean "what" and "if".
20160518 06:53:06< zookeeper> there is no what if. you already explained the scenario.
20160518 06:53:21< shadowm> No, I did not explain it.
20160518 06:53:39< shadowm> I pointed out that it's a possibility, and asked you how you are supposed to tell it's WIP from the version number alone.
20160518 06:55:05< zookeeper> the same way i'm supposed to tell that an add-on called "Invasion from the Unknown" is actually what it proclaims to be, and not a rickroll
20160518 06:55:18< zookeeper> i can't, and i can.
20160518 06:56:06< shadowm> Okay, so what if I told you that the current version of IftU, 1.99.2, is incomplete?
20160518 06:56:53< shadowm> I'd rather be able to communicate this with an option under _my_ control, like pydsigner suggested, than have a dumb algorithm decide this for me by looking at a version number that's not supposed to go backwards.
20160518 06:57:17< zookeeper> then i'd tell you that if it's incomplete gameplay-wise, you need to drop the version number to below 1.0 or it gets booted
20160518 06:57:34< shadowm> Then I'd say you're being unreasonable and absurd.
20160518 06:58:10< pydsigner> You can't drop the version number without breaking stuff
20160518 06:58:22< shadowm> Primarily common sense.
20160518 06:58:25< pydsigner> That voids the entire contract of a version number
20160518 06:59:20< zookeeper> 1.13 is in early stages, we can wipe the add-on server and clearly advertise the new versioning rules. if you really think people are currently misusing it.
20160518 06:59:35< pydsigner> ....
20160518 06:59:50< pydsigner> You have completely missed shadowm's entire point
20160518 07:00:03< zookeeper> i was responding to yours
20160518 07:00:31< pydsigner> What new versioning rules
20160518 07:00:45< pydsigner> 1.0+ == complete?
20160518 07:00:51< zookeeper> yes
20160518 07:00:56< pydsigner> 01:52 < shadowm> And what if someone changes their mind _after_ version 1.0 and starts adding scenarios?
20160518 07:01:18< shadowm> zookeeper: The thing I am doing right now with my campaign could've been done on the 1.14 server or 1.16 or whatever. The campaign has a very extensive version history and I shouldn't have to desecrate it by suddenly jumping backwards because some committee decided so.
20160518 07:01:19< zookeeper> in any case, an extra pbl key would be fine too, but it'd need to be the inverse, that is default to wip and let you explicitly specify if it's complete
20160518 07:01:21< pydsigner> "Oh sorry, now you have to rename your addon and start over"
20160518 07:03:35< zookeeper> shadowm, what thing? you said it's not 1.0 yet.
20160518 07:03:45< shadowm> IftU 1.99.2.
20160518 07:04:03< pydsigner> The one not 1.0 yet is AtS?
20160518 07:04:13< shadowm> After the Storm is gameplay-complete and at version 0.9.16.
20160518 07:04:27< shadowm> Invasion from the Unknown is gameplay-incomplete and at version 1.99.2.
20160518 07:04:37< shadowm> (It was gameplay complete before version 1.99.0.)
20160518 07:05:03< zookeeper> i don't believe that you're not being obtuse for the sake of making a point
20160518 07:07:00< zookeeper> this isn't about some kind of infallible safeguard mechanism for a nuclear plant in an airplane that must be mathematically provable to be impossible to break or misuse
20160518 07:07:51< shadowm> No, this is about hurting some add-ons' visibility because of a semi-arbitrary classification criterion.
20160518 07:10:36< shadowm> Regardless, there isn't a point in discussing this any further as long as you don't decide to enforce your personal preference of version numbering later down the line.
20160518 07:11:05< zookeeper> indeed
20160518 07:13:21< vultraz> I support a key
20160518 07:13:29< vultraz> I do not support this stupid version number stuff
20160518 07:14:55< vultraz> People use version numbers too differently to have a standard
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20160518 07:18:04< zookeeper> well i thought the ">=1.0 means complete" thing _was_ the standard people were supposed to use, since forever.
20160518 07:18:34< vultraz> Maybe they were supposed to use it but there has been no enforcing it
20160518 07:18:46< zookeeper> like, you know, "However, starting with Wesnoth 1.6, the required format is x.y.z where x, y and z are numbers and a value for x greater than 0 implies the add-on is complete feature-wise."
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20160518 07:21:10< zookeeper> where "complete" obviously means "clearly missing something" and not "the author has fulfilled their every last perfectionist impulse and will never want to make big changes or additions in the future"
20160518 07:21:55< vultraz> you mean NOT clearly missing something?
20160518 07:22:46< zookeeper> err. yes :>
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20160518 07:52:36< loonycyborg> shadowm: I can't see the malware page either. It says 'forbidden' even if I log on
20160518 07:52:53< loonycyborg> on sourceforge that is
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20160518 07:53:17< shadowm> loonycyborg: Oh right, you're a release tech, not admin.
20160518 07:53:59< shadowm> It's rather silly that release technicians can't see it considering it also concerns them.
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20160518 08:00:24< loonycyborg> vultraz: Pretty sure our addon manager already gui2. You remade it yet again? :P
20160518 08:01:01< shadowm> loonycyborg: It's not.
20160518 08:01:40< shadowm> loonycyborg: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/addon/manager_ui.cpp#L610
20160518 08:02:02< shadowm> Well, I guess line 814 is where it becomes evident: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/addon/manager_ui.cpp#L814
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20160518 08:03:15< loonycyborg> aww ok
20160518 08:04:04< loonycyborg> I only remember that I plugged my connection class there, and at the same time it had a major extension
20160518 08:04:43< shadowm> You must be thinking of the network transmission dialog.
20160518 08:04:56< shadowm> That is GUI2, and it's literally nothing but a progress bar and a couple of labels and a button.
20160518 08:05:02< loonycyborg> yes
20160518 08:05:14< loonycyborg> so it was only about transmission dialog
20160518 08:07:46< vultraz> loonycyborg: do you have the expertise to make this new one functional
20160518 08:08:28< loonycyborg> I can look at it, but there's also some work by shadowmaster there
20160518 08:09:52< loonycyborg> He added another abstration layer there, addon_client class
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20160518 08:10:32< loonycyborg> most likely new addon manager class would have to use only that
20160518 08:10:51< shadowm> Who is shadowmaster, again?
20160518 08:11:00< loonycyborg> whoops
20160518 08:11:02< loonycyborg> shadowm
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20160518 09:33:30< Aginor> shadowm: does the 'm' stand for anything?
20160518 09:34:41< vultraz> I assume it's what 'master' became
20160518 09:35:38< vultraz> or perhaps it stands for his last name
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20160518 09:45:22< shadowm> It didn't originally mean anything.
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20160518 09:56:34< zookeeper> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?24681 ...but i realized that i don't understand why can't the game just translate the codes so that the right key is always ":".
20160518 09:56:47< zookeeper> Aginor, ^
20160518 09:57:41< zookeeper> i guess it's because if it did that, then if you went to the hotkeys menu and tried to re-bind : and actually pressed : again, it could not know which one you want
20160518 09:58:06< vultraz> isn't it ; now not :
20160518 09:58:10< zookeeper> well, yeah
20160518 09:59:22< vultraz> I'd suggest removing the key altogether from the documentation
20160518 09:59:25< zookeeper> oh wait, i think my above explanation doesn't make sense after all. this is too complicated for me.
20160518 10:00:00< vultraz> Right now, it's "press these keys to execute this". Perhaps we should make it so instead it's "enter this into the console to execute this"
20160518 10:00:36< vultraz> Do we even use the word 'console' anywhere?
20160518 10:01:57< zookeeper> lua console
20160518 10:03:13< vultraz> then again, our debug console isn't really a proper debug console
20160518 10:05:24< zookeeper> i certainly wouldn't mind if it visually looked more like what you'd expect from a command/debug console, and less exactly like the chat prompt
20160518 10:07:12< vultraz> unfortunately it's not that easy to do with our current tech :(
20160518 10:07:25< shadowm> Oh boy, there we go.
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20160518 10:11:20< zookeeper> vultraz, the observer icon gets pushed too far to the right, it seems: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63964618/wesnoth/observericonoverlap.png
20160518 10:11:42< vultraz> isn't shadowm working on that
20160518 10:12:02< shadowm> No, I am waiting for the font crap to stabilize before figuring out new magic numbers for it.
20160518 10:12:54< shadowm> Yes, it's the font size changes that broke it on master, because its geometry depends on the font size... for some... reason.
20160518 10:13:14< vultraz> A lot of things in GUI1 rely on font sizes for their geometry
20160518 10:13:25< vultraz> That's part of the reason I was losing my mind yesterday
20160518 10:14:30< shadowm> Oh, you mean this: http://pastebin.com/raw/W6vr7xrV
20160518 10:15:02< shadowm> I forgot to answer that question.
20160518 10:15:11< shadowm> <vultraz> shadowm: is the thing you were working on in 1.12 have any bearing here
20160518 10:15:29< shadowm> I worked on several things in 1.12. Please specify which of the things is the thing you are asking about.
20160518 10:16:56< shadowm> The button icons thing? I'm not sure, but I believe that doesn't use font sizes so the answer is no.
20160518 10:17:02< vultraz> Alright
20160518 10:17:05< vultraz> It was that
20160518 10:17:12< shadowm> Yeah no, it can't use font sizes, that'd be absurd.
20160518 10:17:55< shadowm> i.e. I was working with 25px² overlays and 25 isn't a font size we use in 1.12.
20160518 10:18:06< vultraz> Well
20160518 10:18:13< vultraz> Font sizes are somehow tied to the overlays
20160518 10:18:22< vultraz> Seems button dimensions are too
20160518 10:18:30< shadowm> I know the observer overlay uses the font size as a baseline for something.
20160518 10:18:33< vultraz> When I changed the values in font.hpp gui1 buttons got all stretches
20160518 10:18:37< vultraz> stretched
20160518 10:18:41< vultraz> and overlays wouldn't load
20160518 10:18:43< vultraz> so
20160518 10:18:52< shadowm> Well, yes, GUI1 buttons stretch to fit their contents.
20160518 10:18:58< shadowm> That's independent of font size.
20160518 10:19:21< shadowm> If your GUI1 button label is too long or too tall, the button will be visibly stretched to contain it.
20160518 10:19:37< shadowm> So of course increasing the font size will produce the same effect.
20160518 10:20:10< vultraz> This was the case even with icon-only buttons
20160518 10:20:16< shadowm> Overlays not loading is a side-effect of that quirk I described in the super large commit message.
20160518 10:20:33< shadowm> Although I'm not sure why it'd use the font size as a baseline in that case.
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20160518 10:21:17< shadowm> src/widgets/button.cpp:293 suggests it wouldn't.
20160518 10:21:39< zookeeper> imagine if GUI2 was originally designed to use, say, CSS for layouts.
20160518 10:21:49< shadowm> Yes.
20160518 10:22:06< shadowm> I'm sure you'd have a lot of fun trying to do advanced layouts in CSS without Flexbox.
20160518 10:22:19< shadowm> Or a fully-functional tables implementation.
20160518 10:23:31< shadowm> Aginor: Wasn't the SDL_gpu support code going to be purged or I remember wrong?
20160518 10:23:33< zookeeper> yeah it can be awkward for some things, but you wouldn't be relying on the expertise of literally <5 people worldwide to get anything done.
20160518 10:24:08< shadowm> No, you'd just still rely on literally < 5 people to fix bugs in the implementation, unless you used an external implementation and went down that rabbit hole.
20160518 10:24:20< vultraz> shadowm: he decided to keep it around in case it's useful for reference
20160518 10:24:21< zookeeper> of course an external implementation
20160518 10:25:03< zookeeper> and all this assuming that there are external implementations that wouldn't be worth more trouble than what we have now. i don't know if there are, but i'd think it likely :P
20160518 10:25:19< shadowm> You could look up a GNU GPL or LGPL library that does that and figure out how to build a new UI framework out of it.
20160518 10:25:36< shadowm> *-compatible
20160518 10:26:08< shadowm> I'd certainly support the move as long as I don't end up maintaining broken code for someone else as usual.
20160518 10:26:40< zookeeper> well of course it's a pipedream at this point, hence the "originally" part.
20160518 10:26:44< shadowm> And as long as we don't end up with a Lua situation.
20160518 10:27:11< shadowm> You know, C library, C++ callbacks, C++ exceptions propagating across ABI boundaries, that kind of thing.
20160518 10:28:19< shadowm> I mean, seriously, most of our technical shortcomings stem from people not experimenting because it's too much work/they don't have time/expertise, etc. Not because it's impossible or unwanted.
20160518 10:28:31< shadowm> But I'll spare you the full rant and find my way out now.
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20160518 10:29:27< gfgtdf> shadowm: i think we should notice in the known bugs sections that scenaio 9 of LoW MP and mabe later scenarios are quite borken.
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20160518 13:43:31< mattsc> celticminstrel: this bug is caused by your recent changes to the AI engine:  celticminstrel
20160518 13:44:01< mattsc> Ugh.  This bug: https://gna.org/bugs/?24679
20160518 13:44:25< mattsc> LoW S3 uses a custom Lua engine here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/chapter1/03_Kalian_under_Attack.cfg#L201
20160518 13:45:09< mattsc> So the syntax needs to be changed.  Will you do that or do you want me to?
20160518 13:45:36< mattsc> We should probably also grep through all the mainline campaigns to make sure there isn’t another instance like this.
20160518 13:45:57< mattsc> gfgtdf: ^
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20160518 13:48:50< mattsc> A quick grep shows that all other occurences of ‘engine=lua’ in mainline campaigns are in external CAs, so those should be fine, IIRC.
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20160518 13:51:22< zookeeper> when someone added the TURNS_OVER_ADVANTAGE thing, they forgot to include a simple way to disable it from within a scenario: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=597189#p597189
20160518 13:52:54< zookeeper> well, actually such a method was added in master.
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20160518 17:43:18< mattsc> celticminstrel: I left you a message in the logs about 4 hours ago.
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20160518 18:52:00< loonycyborg> shadowm: I've uploaded 1.12.6 installer
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20160518 19:05:12< celticminstrel> mattsc: If I'm not mistaken, all we need is to remove that first line, right?
20160518 19:06:11< mattsc> celticminstrel: It is something very simple like that, yes, but I haven’t had time to look up again how to do it yet.  I don’t remember without looking it up.
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20160518 19:27:35< shadowm> gfgtdf: Any suggested wording?
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20160518 19:37:36< gfgtdf> shadowm: well i don't know exactly whether its just scnairo 9 or also the later scenarios
20160518 19:39:33< gfgtdf> shadowm: well let me test how well it works when i start form chpter 3 directly
20160518 19:44:12< gfgtdf> shadowm:o k its not as bugged as when i procedd from the previously scneario,, but still 2 of 4 human sides cannot recuit or recall anything
20160518 19:44:55< gfgtdf> shadowm: so i'd write something like 'starting with chapter 3 (scenario 9) the LoW mainline campaigsn is known to have multiple bugs, its therefore reccomened to play only the first 2 chapters of LoW.
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20160518 19:52:30< shadowm> MP only, I presume.
20160518 19:52:43< gfgtdf> shadowm: yes mp only
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20160518 21:09:29< shadowm> gfgtdf: Added...
20160518 21:12:38< zookeeper> celticminstrel, i don't recall any leadership being granted by an object in mainline, but regardless, i'm not exactly a fan of that case breaking without special precautions. i take it that just adding a | doesn't work, or breaks it in normal use?
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20160518 21:17:08< zookeeper> yeah, it does break.
20160518 21:18:42< zookeeper> well, the logic is incredibly simple so i don't see why we shouldn't just hard-code the default in c++ in the first place?
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20160518 21:20:15< zookeeper> seems like the KISS solution to me
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20160518 21:22:11< zookeeper> backstab should be affected as well, right?
20160518 21:23:46< zookeeper> i lament not immediately realizing this problem back then
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20160518 21:39:13< celticminstrel> Hmm... backstab might be affected too, yeah...
20160518 21:39:50< celticminstrel> What about making yes the default for delayed variable substitution in [object]? Would that break a lot of things too?
20160518 21:43:01< zookeeper> i'd imagine it would
20160518 21:43:59< zookeeper> using variable substitution in [object] sounds exactly the sort of thing everyone and their mom do in UMC land
20160518 21:44:43 * zookeeper scratches head
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20160518 21:48:38< zookeeper> i don't really see how it could be solved without getting rid of the variable use one way or another
20160518 21:49:20< zookeeper> doesn't mean the feature itself is useless, although it's certainly limited in an unfortunate way
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20160518 22:58:18< celticminstrel> I think the only way to get rid of variable use would be to go back to the old method, which I'd rather not do.
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20160518 22:58:59< celticminstrel> Using variable substitution in an [object] seems like it wouldn't be that common, but that's mainly talking from my personal experience in doing WML stuff, so I could easily be wrong.
20160518 23:03:22< SigurdFD> celticminstrel: did you see my latest comment in the bug report?
20160518 23:03:47< celticminstrel> Yeah, just saw that now.
20160518 23:04:30< celticminstrel> I'm wondering where you got that thing about WFL being dropped, because I'm pretty sure no-one ever suggested that seriously...
20160518 23:04:41< celticminstrel> There was talk of FormulaAI being dropped, but that's separate.
20160518 23:05:00< SigurdFD> from looking at the inspect dialog, but I have no idea if that's right or not
20160518 23:05:22< celticminstrel> I assume you added delated_variable_substitution right in [object]?
20160518 23:05:28< SigurdFD> but also from the fact that ability_teleport should still work in an object, and it doesn't use WFL
20160518 23:05:39< celticminstrel> Does teleport not work?
20160518 23:05:46< SigurdFD> yes, and tried it in the effect block to boot
20160518 23:05:58< celticminstrel> ...in the effect block? :|
20160518 23:06:21< SigurdFD> sometimes I just try random things
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20160518 23:06:57< celticminstrel> I'm not even quite sure what you mean by this.
20160518 23:11:37< SigurdFD> I'm not talking about dropping WFL from wesnoth, I'm saying that the process of applying leadership ability (which uses wfl) via an object...
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20160518 23:12:04< SigurdFD> ... causes the wfl not to make it into the unit's wml in the game. As illustrated in the attached pics
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20160518 23:12:35< celticminstrel> Well, that WFL is used in formula substitution, so it's calculate at the same time as variable substitution...
20160518 23:12:49< celticminstrel> So disabling variable substitution should prevent it from being expanded...
20160518 23:13:45< SigurdFD> so that would be a new key for object? or a new value for delated_variable_substitution, correct?
20160518 23:13:47< celticminstrel> And the teleport ability does work, so I don't think it could be that [object] stopped checking the delayed_variable_substitution key...
20160518 23:13:58< celticminstrel> No, why would it be a new value?
20160518 23:14:22< celticminstrel> Variable substitution and formula substitution happen at the same time.
20160518 23:14:47< SigurdFD> I guess it wouldn't be a new value.
20160518 23:17:23< SigurdFD> is there a way to disable varible substution currently?
20160518 23:17:40< celticminstrel> [object]delayed_variable_substitution=yes
20160518 23:18:58< SigurdFD> but it doesn't work for ability_leadership
20160518 23:19:43< celticminstrel> Using a format identical to a working ABILITY_TELEPORT?
20160518 23:20:24< SigurdFD> I'll test that teleport still works in an object...
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20160518 23:29:53< SigurdFD> celticminstrel: teleport does not when added as an object. the wml variable is being dropped. This contradicts current wiki for [object].
20160518 23:30:21< SigurdFD> and the delated_variable_substitution=yes. https://wiki.wesnoth.org/DirectActionsWML#.5Bobject.5D
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20160518 23:49:05< celticminstrel> SigurdFD: I hope you didn't literally write delated_variable_substitution=yes
20160518 23:49:14< celticminstrel> It should be delayed_variable_substitution
20160518 23:49:18< celticminstrel> You have a T instead of a Y
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--- Log closed Thu May 19 00:00:25 2016