--- Log opened Mon May 23 00:00:19 2016
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20160523 01:07:49< shadowm> I think adding some form of matchmaking wouldn't be a bad idea and the MP developers rendered themselves irrelevant by drifting away and not leaving anyone to succeed them.
20160523 01:08:30< shadowm> So I rather doubt there'll be any meaningful opposition except from people who haven't played Wesnoth in half a decade.
20160523 01:08:58< shadowm> That's all I have to say on the matter.
20160523 01:09:29< celticminstrel> I suppose some form of matchmaking could be useful.
20160523 01:09:47< shadowm> (And I doubt Sapient will see this either.)
20160523 01:10:32< celticminstrel> I'm guessing one of the problems with implementing it though relates to how nicknames on the server function basically like IRC - ie, by default no-one owns any nicknames.
20160523 01:10:35< shadowm> That said, cheating is a very real technical concern to take into account.
20160523 01:11:02< celticminstrel> (I'm aware of the existance of the forum account linkup, though only in the vaguest terms.)
20160523 01:11:15< celticminstrel> (Presumably we'd want a similar thing for steam accounts.)
20160523 01:11:59< shadowm> Last time I checked, Steam integration required us to link to proprietary code.
20160523 01:12:13< shadowm> Shouldn't need to explain the issue with that.
20160523 01:12:45< celticminstrel> Well, maybe there's a way to authenticate to Steam's servers without actually having full integration.
20160523 01:12:51< celticminstrel> I don't really know though.
20160523 01:12:57< celticminstrel> If it's not possible, then I guess it's not possible.
20160523 01:13:04< shadowm> Also the documenattion was behind an NDA-like paywall.
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20160523 06:48:37< zookeeper> shadowm, sure, a well-designed matchmaking/ranking system and a wizard to implement it would be perfectly fine.
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20160523 06:55:23< irker628> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:master ffd1638628b4 / .gitignore: gitignore: Add install_manifest.txt https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ffd1638628b4ee651158f03a910eafa634060c88
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20160523 14:33:11< aquileia> zookeeper, vultraz: I wanted to add [+movement_anim] [sound_frame] sound=horse-canter.wav [/sound_frame] [/movement_anim] to the mounted units, but noticed a glitch
20160523 14:34:38< aquileia> For some directions the animation is played over 2 hexes, for others each hex (which looks horrible and triggers the sound while the last one still plays)
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20160523 14:36:26< aquileia> Of course the sound is only an issue if we add the horse canter, but the animation playing too fast happens already
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20160523 14:40:55< ancestral> OS X is built except, I am getting an error with translations
20160523 14:41:47< ancestral> For some reason, scons says translations are up to date, and it thinks I have a too old version of Boost (which is untrue)
20160523 14:41:49< aquileia> shadowm: ^
20160523 14:42:52< aquileia> ancestral: Couldn't you just purge/rename your translations folder to force their re-creation?
20160523 14:43:06< ancestral> I didn’t have a translations folder
20160523 14:43:08< ancestral> So I created one
20160523 14:43:10< ancestral> Same error
20160523 14:43:39< ancestral> I’m trying to pull a brand new version of 1.12.6 down
20160523 14:45:04< ancestral> https://paste.ee/p/D1svI
20160523 14:45:11< ancestral> And no luck
20160523 14:47:19< aquileia> It doesn't think the translations are up-to-date, the problem is that "NLS tools are not present"
20160523 14:48:49< aquileia> ancestral: If you don't want to fix the issue now, you could just copy the translations dir from e.g. loonycyborg's build
20160523 14:49:03< ancestral> That will work?
20160523 14:49:56< aquileia> translations don't depend on your system, so it should (unless OS X can't cope with the line endings, of course, but that's easy to fix) 
20160523 14:50:19< ancestral> All right
20160523 14:52:18< celticminstrel> I thought .mo files were platform-dependent.
20160523 14:52:44< celticminstrel> Though I guess Windows and OSX ones might be the same.
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20160523 15:34:43< zookeeper> aquileia, i don't recall any of the specifics WRT movement anims. might be that you can't really have a regular looping movement anim while only playing a sound once when the move starts.
20160523 15:35:41< aquileia> zookeeper: The problem is with the animation itself (it gets worse with the sound, but it's there already)
20160523 15:38:07< aquileia> Run a horseman due north, then undo - the animations will play at different frequency
20160523 15:38:50< aquileia> 1 animation cycle over 1 or 2 hexes respectively
20160523 15:39:10< vultraz> random thing about anims: they don't sync well with accelerated spped
20160523 15:40:35< zookeeper> not to mention the whole thing suffers from the glitch where, for example, a unit facing sw (facing left) moves north or south and completely unnecessarily flips (facing right) because it can't comprehend any context.
20160523 15:40:54< zookeeper> which we've had since forever and i guess no one cares about
20160523 15:41:56< celticminstrel> Well of course they don't sync well with accelerated speed.
20160523 15:42:25< vultraz> I think accelerated speed tries to speed up the anim a but but it really doesn't look that good
20160523 15:42:26< zookeeper> when you're going/facing north or south then you're facing neither left nor right so your facing should remain the same. but it doesn't, because reasons.
20160523 15:42:27< aquileia> celticminstrel: I think he means that some animations aren't accelerated, right, vultraz?
20160523 15:42:34< aquileia> Ah, ok
20160523 15:42:38< celticminstrel> Really? That would be weird.
20160523 15:43:09< zookeeper> well movement anims shouldn't be accelerated... only the movement itself
20160523 15:43:31< zookeeper> maybe there's a key for determining that per animation, i dunno
20160523 15:43:37< celticminstrel> Isn't that contradictory?
20160523 15:43:41< zookeeper> no
20160523 15:43:47< zookeeper> why would it be?
20160523 15:43:55< vultraz> Try running a horseman at 2x speed
20160523 15:44:04< vultraz> it's all jerky
20160523 15:44:05< zookeeper> well, it would if there was a unit which had its movement anim synced with the movement speed somehow
20160523 15:44:30< celticminstrel> The sliding of a moving unit is an animation.
20160523 15:44:44< celticminstrel> Obviously you want that to be twice as fast if speed is at 2x.
20160523 15:45:11< vultraz> hm
20160523 15:46:24< vultraz> Actually, this weird 'ghosting' effect with fast animations is probably the result of the lack of hw acceleration
20160523 15:47:30< vultraz> Also, when you have units like horsesmen, they do one 'gallop' over the course of one hex
20160523 15:47:44< zookeeper> one hex?
20160523 15:47:47< zookeeper> really?
20160523 15:48:01< vultraz> as far as I can tell, yes
20160523 15:48:03< zookeeper> can't be right, either the anim would be super fast or the movement super slow
20160523 15:48:09< celticminstrel> I've noticed the jerky horsemen too, by the way.
20160523 15:48:36< vultraz> it is pretty fast, yes
20160523 15:48:47< zookeeper> anyway, as said i don't know any of the specifics and i find movement anims a rather pointless endeavour, so... :p
20160523 15:49:00< aquileia> zookeeper, vultraz: That's what I was saying - one animation cycle per hex for some cases, one cycle over 2 hexes for others
20160523 15:49:04< vultraz> so basically, I wonder if there's a way to extend the length of the animation in terms of hexes if you're traveling further, or if accelerated speed is on
20160523 15:49:26< vultraz> so, you don't have horsemen that look like they're playing hopscotch 
20160523 15:49:49< aquileia> vultraz: It has to be possible because it already happens
20160523 15:50:31< aquileia> As I said, try undoing that gallop...
20160523 15:50:45< vultraz> hm yes
20160523 15:50:47< vultraz> you're right
20160523 15:51:00< vultraz> it would be good if we could tweak that somehow
20160523 15:51:25< vultraz> the way accelerated speed seems to be working is simply cutting back on the total time it takes for an animation to play
20160523 15:51:29< vultraz> regardless of distance
20160523 15:51:57< celticminstrel> It should be doing something with the animation's clock too.
20160523 15:52:03< vultraz> so if a standard gallop for 1 hex at 1x speed takes 400 ms, then at 2x speed it would try to complete the same thing in 200
20160523 15:52:06< vultraz> I'm guessing
20160523 15:52:13< zookeeper> i think it's pretty clear how they _should_ work, but i'm also pretty sure the animation system cannot handle something like it.
20160523 15:52:21< vultraz> and it will do that for every single hex
20160523 15:52:26< vultraz> leaving you with ugly animations
20160523 15:52:43< celticminstrel> I think it would be fine if the animation clock simply accelerates the same as the movement itself.
20160523 15:52:58 * zookeeper is afk
20160523 15:53:03< celticminstrel> I thought it already did that, honestly.
20160523 15:53:11< vultraz> However, if instead of simply decreasing the execution time, it instead spread out the time over hexes traveled, it would look a lot better
20160523 15:53:47< vultraz> so say, at 1x speed you did a 400ms animation for 1 hex traveled, and then at 2x speed you did a 400ms animation over *2* hexes traveled
20160523 15:53:47< celticminstrel> Maybe.
20160523 15:54:46< vultraz> then again, that might look weird with Skeletons, or some such unit
20160523 15:55:04< vultraz> our animation system isn't very sophisticated :(
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20160523 15:55:19< aquileia> vultraz: WE have to keep in mind that, if an artist sets movement speed to 0.25, it shouldn't gallop twice per hex though
20160523 15:55:46< vultraz> but the general affect I think we should aim for is making it look like units are running faster
20160523 15:55:47< aquileia> s/WE/we
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20160523 15:55:51< vultraz> not like we're shoving things around faster
20160523 15:56:34< vultraz> aquileia: well, obviously, for the horsemen
20160523 15:56:38< vultraz> but what about a foot unit
20160523 15:56:43< vultraz> would you want two "steps" per hex?
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20160523 15:57:04< vultraz> I'd say yes
20160523 15:57:52< aquileia> The animations should show a sufficiently large stride, so I'd disagree, and it'd ruin what I use 0.5x speed for (seeing the animation in detail)
20160523 15:58:29< vultraz> I think it'd be up to the animator 
20160523 15:58:40< vultraz> most units have running animations not walking animations, anyway
20160523 15:58:42< aquileia> If we can do that, great
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20160523 15:59:43< vultraz> if I'm honest, I wish we could drop accelerated speed entirely (or mostly) and instead have good, dynamic speeds
20160523 16:00:13< vultraz> for example, speeding up an animation over long distances, maybe.
20160523 16:01:04< vultraz> like if a horse were moving 10 hexes
20160523 16:01:23< vultraz> it could start out with the 1 hex cycle, then go faster and do 2 or even 3 hex cycles in the middle
20160523 16:01:28< vultraz> then slow back to 1 and stop
20160523 16:01:33< aquileia> AI turns in NR is all I'm saying
20160523 16:01:56< vultraz> aquileia: then you turn off Show AI Moves :P
20160523 16:02:03< vultraz> only way to play NR
20160523 16:02:49< aquileia> really? Force players to analyze the battlefield anew? That's a gameplay regression
20160523 16:03:43< vultraz> (I'm being facetious)
20160523 16:04:01< vultraz> (but that is how I played NR)
20160523 16:04:35< vultraz> I wouldn't say we need to remove accelerated speed, just that I wish there were a way to make using it less necessary
20160523 16:04:51< vultraz> There's a reason I suggested awhile back that the default speed be bumped 
20160523 16:04:54< vultraz> The forums shot it down
20160523 16:04:55< aquileia> IMHO the important fix would be to get horse gallops to always span 2 hexes, bonus point if it scales with accelerates with animation speed
20160523 16:05:09< aquileia> *accelerated animation speed
20160523 16:06:22< vultraz> ( a bonus to having dynamic animation speeds/hex spans would be that animations would appear more organic, instead of pieces sliding around a chessboard)
20160523 16:07:21< vultraz> (I'm not sure if there's a term for that movement speed curve)
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20160523 16:43:52< zookeeper> i really don't see why anyone is talking about hexes.
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20160523 16:49:44< zookeeper> or why the animation speed should be affected by acceleration, for that matter. i guess it can be so that it "looks" accelerated like everything else, but you can hardly see the anims as it is because the unit just moves so fast, so it seems kind of pointless to make it even harder to see.
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20160523 17:36:18< irker811> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 99f7c42ef950 / po/ (7 files in 7 dirs): updated Italian translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/99f7c42ef9508fe5e5837754fda748320139535c
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20160523 19:00:33< Ravana_> is it likely that Lua runs out of memory when subtracting two integers of around 100000 ?
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20160523 19:07:14< celticminstrel> That sounds highly unlikely...
20160523 19:07:36< celticminstrel> Though, without knowing much about Lua internals, I suppose I can't say for sure.
20160523 19:15:14< Ravana_> I have no actual need for that large values for unit hp anyways, I hope lowering it to 1000 will fix this
20160523 19:16:49< aeth> If it is the case, then it's almost certainly a bug that someone spotted and fixed upstream.
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20160523 19:51:14< zookeeper> Jetrel_bot, the best i can do, i think: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63964618/wesnoth/giant-spider3.jpg
20160523 19:51:16< zookeeper> good to go in?
20160523 19:51:39< Jetrel_bot> zookeeper  yep.
20160523 19:53:18< zookeeper> all right
20160523 19:54:39< zookeeper> i like to think that while the perspective is completely different to other portraits, the unnervingness of how it seems to be walking on the map (or your screen) makes up for it :p
20160523 20:06:37< Jetrel_bot> Yeah, I think that's fine for something like a spider - honestly we actually do play fast-and-loose with the perspective on the existing portraits, too - it's just something you can get away with.
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20160523 20:21:46< irker811> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 4213ca274751 / / (3 files in 3 dirs): Added generic portrait for Giant Spider https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4213ca27475184258ec0cc1bc3846091878f4432
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20160523 20:28:40< gfgtdf> Ravana_: no subrtacting 2 values shouldnt be an issue no matter how high, but there might be rounding inaccuracies when the result canot be stored as a 8byte float.
20160523 20:28:54< zookeeper> gfgtdf, so, i was wondering about the global events... doesn't [resource] already provide the most logical mechanism for that? i mean maybe a key for marking a resource as something that should always be loaded is needed, but other than that isn't half of the implementation already there?
20160523 20:30:26< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm the [resource] adds the events to all the savefiles just like other events in campaign.
20160523 20:30:28< zookeeper> although i assume that events in [resource] are copied into savefiles
20160523 20:30:31< zookeeper> right :P
20160523 20:31:25< celticminstrel> Or even when it can't be stored as a 4-byte float.
20160523 20:31:42 * celticminstrel can't remember exactly what the sizes of float vs double are.
20160523 20:31:46< gfgtdf> zookeeper: iirc this is mainly made becasue this way other mp client have those events aswell
20160523 20:32:01< celticminstrel> But I do know that some platforms make "double" and "long double" synonymous.
20160523 20:32:10< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: double is 8 byte float on all plattofrm i know
20160523 20:32:18< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: float is usually 4 byte
20160523 20:32:26< celticminstrel> Ah okay then.
20160523 20:33:54< celticminstrel> So if Lua is using long double then you might even get a 10 or 16 byte float.
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20160523 20:35:08< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: lua uses double
20160523 20:35:43< celticminstrel> Well, you can configure it to use whatever you want, so I wasn't sure.
20160523 20:35:53< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: also in the sntader defintion lua relies on IEEE754 dobules (which imples 8 byte) in the double->int cast
20160523 20:36:09< celticminstrel> The what definition?
20160523 20:36:09< gfgtdf> standard*
20160523 20:36:13< celticminstrel> Ah.
20160523 20:36:23< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: unless you overwrite it with some macros i mean
20160523 20:40:36< zookeeper> gfgtdf, well, i guess [resource] isn't currently directly helpful in that case, but i think that if we manage to add global event support, they should still go in [resource], instead of adding a separate top-level tag for them.
20160523 20:41:46< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm yes but in the in current impleemntation recouces still needs to be added with [load_resource] in [modificaiton], [era], [multiplayer] etc.
20160523 20:42:06< gfgtdf> zookeeper: so you then want to have [load_recource] at top level ?
20160523 20:43:51< zookeeper> gfgtdf, no, i was just thinking of something like [resource] [event] global=yes, and then the code which looks for [load_resource] tags could just simply always add them
20160523 20:44:03< zookeeper> so no [load_resource] needed for them
20160523 20:44:52< zookeeper> or just [resource] global=yes
20160523 20:44:59< zookeeper> (i guess that makes more sense)
20160523 20:46:27< gfgtdf> hmm ok
20160523 20:49:28< zookeeper> i don't know how the code for that stuff works currently, so if it's just easier to write a separate mechanism then i guess that's fine too
20160523 20:59:30< gfgtdf> zookeeper: well i think it'd be nice if we coudl impelemt a mechanim that doesnt store the event in the savefiles if they didn't change during the event and if the containg tag has require_download=yes even i mean for [scenario] and [era] aswell
20160523 20:59:39< gfgtdf> zookeeper: there is also a fr for that on oru tracker
20160523 21:00:00< gfgtdf> zookeeper: and if we ahve that it should be easy to impleent lobal event that are not written to savefiles
20160523 21:00:05< gfgtdf> global*
20160523 21:00:13< gfgtdf> global*
20160523 21:00:53< zookeeper> sure
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20160523 23:47:16-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20160523 23:47:16-!- Topic set by shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] [Sat May 21 05:30:08 2016]
20160523 23:47:16[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20160523 23:47:16[ _laco          ] [ Duthlet   ] [ heirecka  ] [ Lohengramm  ] [ pydsigner     ] [ TheJJ    ] 
20160523 23:47:16[ aeth           ] [ elias     ] [ higgins   ] [ loonycyborg ] [ quentinp_     ] [ timotei_ ] 
20160523 23:47:16[ Aginor         ] [ EliDupree ] [ iceiceice ] [ louis94     ] [ Ravana_       ] [ tomreyn  ] 
20160523 23:47:16[ AI0867         ] [ Elsi      ] [ Ivanovic  ] [ LovCAPONE   ] [ Rhonda        ] [ vincent_c] 
20160523 23:47:16[ aidanhs        ] [ enchi     ] [ janebot   ] [ matthiaskrgr] [ Samual        ] [ Yaiyan   ] 
20160523 23:47:16[ celticminstrel ] [ esr       ] [ Jetrel    ] [ midzer      ] [ shadowm       ] [ ypnos    ] 
20160523 23:47:16[ clavi          ] [ exciton   ] [ Jetrel_bot] [ minbonbon   ] [ shikadibot    ] [ zookeeper] 
20160523 23:47:16[ Crendgrim      ] [ Gambit    ] [ kidneb    ] [ new_one     ] [ stikonas      ] [ {V}      ] 
20160523 23:47:16[ crimson_penguin] [ Greg-Boggs] [ knotwork__] [ nurupo      ] [ TC01          ] 
20160523 23:47:16[ DDR            ] [ Greywhind ] [ lobby     ] [ oldlaptop   ] [ The_Unforgiven] 
20160523 23:47:16-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 58 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 58 normal]
20160523 23:47:28-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 05:28:41 2009
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20160523 23:52:07< celticminstrel> Didn't I add something to attack filters? The wiki doesn't mention whatever it was.
20160523 23:52:29< celticminstrel> I guess I should go over past commits again and see what else I might have missed...
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--- Log closed Tue May 24 00:00:35 2016