--- Log opened Sun Jun 19 00:00:34 2016
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20160619 00:40:26< Aginor> ok, I see someone already cleaned up the pragma warnings
20160619 00:40:44< Aginor> I do wonder why gfgtdf saw them but not wedge009 
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20160619 16:25:54< mattsc> zookeeper: do you have an opinion on the gold saving in SotBE S1 that Jozrael reported on yesterday?
20160619 16:26:51< mattsc> I think that with it on, the difficulty is more variable, sometimes harder sometimes easier, while no gold saving gives a rather predictable outcome (simply because anything random averages out better with more units).
20160619 16:27:05< mattsc> So I have no objections to turning it off.
20160619 16:30:38< zookeeper> no opinion, depends on whether there's a need for it to be harder.
20160619 16:31:19< mattsc> Yeah, I don’t know.  It’s the first scenario, it doesn’t have to be super hard IMO.
20160619 16:31:29< zookeeper> i mean, better predictability sounds great but i don't have any knowledge of the current balance on the high difficulties
20160619 16:42:24< mattsc> On a different topic, does anybody here know what the current state of LoW is on master?
20160619 16:42:36< mattsc> Have most of the problems been fixed by now?
20160619 16:43:37 * zookeeper has no idea
20160619 17:08:01< gfgtdf> mattsc: hm depending on which problem you mean
20160619 17:08:55< gfgtdf> mattsc: on the c++ side there are no rpblems anymore afaik
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20160619 17:49:35< mattsc> gfgtdf: so all the OOS errors and recall list being mixed up and … (or whatever it was, I really didn’t follow that closely) are fixed now?  That’s great.
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20160619 17:50:09< gfgtdf> mattts: yes but it still suffers from beeding unbaöances and a changing number of player during the campaogn
20160619 17:50:15< mattsc> So I guess what it takes then is somebody to go through the campaign carefully and make sure the WML and is set up correctly …
20160619 17:50:33< mattsc> s/WML/WML works
20160619 17:50:43< mattsc> gfgtdf: right (thinking the same thing there)
20160619 17:51:34< gfgtdf> mattsc: afaik the intention by teh write was that that players wodl make a new game when tehy reach the foruth scenario, but from whta i observed in th eserver this seems just no to beteh case, it just continued with 2 players.
20160619 17:51:40< gfgtdf> by teh writer*
20160619 17:51:42< gfgtdf> the*
20160619 17:52:24< gfgtdf> mattsc: 'tha seems not be to be case' as in 'players just don't do that'
20160619 17:52:36< mattsc> Yeah (I understood)
20160619 17:52:59< mattsc> Personally, I can see that it would be hard to get into a game that others started.
20160619 17:53:27< gfgtdf> mattsc: y i agree
20160619 17:54:31< gfgtdf> mattsc: but i have realyl no idea how this situation coudl be improved
20160619 17:54:37< mattsc> I don’t really see how you could change that without a major redesign though.  Other than either have players play different sides or make the AI take over some of the allies.
20160619 17:54:47< mattsc> gfgtdf: thinking the same thing at the same time there again  :)
20160619 17:55:24< mattsc> … and neither of those two options sound great
20160619 17:56:11< celmin> Why on earth would you make a new game halfway through a campaign?
20160619 17:56:47< mattsc> Anyway, I’d be willing to help with testing and fixing, if needed, the mechanics, but I won’t do a redesign or balancing (just don’t have the time for the latter)
20160619 17:57:12< mattsc> testing and fixing the WML mechanics, I mean
20160619 17:57:58< gfgtdf> celmin: becasue the number of player change, for example the third scenario has 2 human sides and the fourth has 3 human sides.
20160619 17:58:16< celmin> That's a problem.
20160619 17:58:42< celmin> Either add a third human side throughout the first three scenarios, or make one of those three sides in the fourth scenario a computer ally.
20160619 17:58:47< gfgtdf> celmin so scenario 1-3 are a 2-player campaign and scneario 4-7 ar e 3 player campaign, scenario 9-13 are a 4 player campaign afaik.
20160619 17:59:24< celmin> That's really a big problem.
20160619 17:59:40< gfgtdf> celmin: then the last 2 scnario are for 2 players again...
20160619 18:00:04< celmin> Okay, I'd say it would be best then to just make the extra allies computer-controlled.
20160619 18:00:04< zookeeper> so what happens when you advance from scenario 3 to 4?
20160619 18:00:32< gfgtdf> zookeeper: you get throws of the mp-connect screen where you can 
20160619 18:00:39< gfgtdf> zookeeper: thrown*
20160619 18:01:30< zookeeper> okay. well, it's not that bad if the new sides are by default set to AI (and the scenarios are actually winnable that way) so you can just click ok if you don't have a third player?
20160619 18:02:03< gfgtdf> zookeeper: well currently its just one of the player talkig over that side so that he controls 2 sides
20160619 18:02:12< gfgtdf> zookeeper: thats what usualyl happens i mean
20160619 18:02:31< zookeeper> that's what usually the host decides to do, you mean?
20160619 18:02:37< celmin> Does the player control two sides in the SP version too?
20160619 18:03:20< gfgtdf> celmin: no in sp its all on one side
20160619 18:03:30< gfgtdf> zookeeper: yes
20160619 18:03:55< celmin> If it's all one side in SP, then why is it two sides in MP?
20160619 18:04:12 * celmin hasn't played LoW, so I don't really know what's going on in it.
20160619 18:04:16< gfgtdf> celmin: to make it a mp campaign
20160619 18:04:37< gfgtdf> celmin_: yi is better to play LoW to discuss it, (mp or sp)
20160619 18:04:44< celmin> Obviously.
20160619 18:05:03< celmin> Is it cooperative MP? Or does one player take the enemy sides?
20160619 18:05:15< gfgtdf> celmin: cooperative
20160619 18:05:31< zookeeper> i don't really see a _big_ problem with that as such. if two people want to keep playing by themselves then they have two options (one player controls 2 sides, or AI), or they can take on a third player if they want. the main problem would seem to be that it can be kind of confusing what you're supposed to do.
20160619 18:05:58< gfgtdf> zookeeper: note that that third side is the only one that can recuit healers, so i dont reall think letting it control by ai ia real option
20160619 18:06:03< celmin> I think it would be best if it were set up so that 3 (or even 4) players could play from the start.
20160619 18:06:10< zookeeper> gfgtdf, right...
20160619 18:06:18< zookeeper> that sounds rather annoying, yes
20160619 18:06:41< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm yes but there are later also some scneario hwere each plaer controls2 sides, (so 8 human sides in total on the 4player part)
20160619 18:06:57< gfgtdf> zookeeper: and it feels just silly if you play that with 2 players
20160619 18:07:27< zookeeper> 8 human sides? -.- sure, that's silly
20160619 18:07:44< celmin> Why so many?
20160619 18:07:55< zookeeper> it should probably automatically combine some sides together depending on number of players
20160619 18:07:59< zookeeper> which might be tricky, but still
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20160619 20:24:02< shadowm> loonycyborg: Now people are require to look up what "env.ParseFlags" is...
20160619 20:24:05< shadowm> *d
20160619 20:24:54< loonycyborg> the most important bit is that they're treated as compile time vars by default
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20160619 20:33:06< shadowm> Welp, now -fsanitize is used with both debug and release builds.
20160619 20:33:42< shadowm> I guess I'll go back to the CXXFLAGS+LDFLAGS approach, because I don't want it (tsan at least) on release builds.
20160619 20:35:14< shadowm> gfgtdf: New run, up to title screen only: http://pastebin.com/Ph9Ezh7j
20160619 20:35:37< shadowm> Again, ignore up to line 73.
20160619 20:57:19< shadowm> And it can still crash if SIGINTed during the loading screen.
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20160619 21:09:44< loonycyborg> shadowm: it doesn't give much overhead, so I'm using it on release builds too
20160619 21:11:41< shadowm> Really? tsan increases startup times (before the window is even created) by at least 4 seconds here.
20160619 21:12:36< shadowm> Either way I don't want it on all builds.
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 20 00:00:05 2016