--- Log opened Mon Jun 27 00:00:04 2016
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20160627 08:36:28< DeFender1031> <zookeeper> _pepe, shift- or ctrl-click when placing the forest/village/etc <-- And all this time i'd been saving the map and manually editing it to put the overlays i wanted on the spots i wanted if they didn't naturally work that way!!!!
20160627 08:36:40< zookeeper> o___O
20160627 08:38:00< DeFender1031> and it's shift... control is the map equivalent of color-chooser
20160627 08:38:17< DeFender1031> but... yeah, this will save me a lot of itme.
20160627 08:38:19< DeFender1031> time*
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20160627 08:49:31< vultraz> DeFender1031: O_O
20160627 08:49:34< vultraz> dat wasted time
20160627 08:50:11< DeFender1031> vultraz, to be fair, i had discovered the ctrl- modifier, so i generally just created one hex with the combo i wanted, then reloaded to paint any others...
20160627 08:50:28< DeFender1031> also to be fair, these keyboard modifiers are not that intuitive
20160627 08:51:10< vultraz> true
20160627 08:51:15< DeFender1031> oh, and before i discovered the ctrl modifier, i'd just use the combo that the map editor gave me and then just do a search and replace of the map file afterward
20160627 08:51:30< DeFender1031> so it wasn't THAT much of a waste of time, but still, this is better.
20160627 08:52:39< DeFender1031> i found my workarounds. I knew that it was at least legal to pu overlays on other bases than they default to, because there are several mainline campaigns that do.
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20160627 12:06:11< DeFender1031> Gejoba, those messages when you change your status to and from away are really annoying (besides, the nick change is generally enough). I don't know about this channel in particular, but many IRC channels have rules against these sorts of automatic messages. I can't speak for everyone else here, but I, for one, would appreciate it if you turned them off please.
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20160627 14:38:17< vultraz> yeah I see what you mean, DeFender1031 
20160627 14:39:27< DeFender1031> vultraz, I take it that means that there is not yet an explicit rule against them here?
20160627 14:39:39< vultraz> There is not
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20160627 14:42:48< zookeeper> in the more civilized corners of irc even nick changes are frowned upon, or get you kicked on sight :>
20160627 14:43:32< vultraz> "civilized"?
20160627 14:43:37< vultraz> I'd say totalitarian :P
20160627 14:43:50< vultraz> Nick changes are half the fun of IRC
20160627 14:45:13< zookeeper> well, i meant away-indicating nick changes
20160627 14:45:35< DeFender1031> I agree with vultraz. Nick changes are generally low-highlight and get lost in join and leave messages anyway. Real messages which don't convey any information that anyone in the channel other than oneself cares about which happen repeatedly on the other hand...
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20160627 14:46:52< DeFender1031> I tend to appreciate away nick changes, as it gives some indication of whether someone will be available (though I have known people to always be away, and even saw someone one time switch to "AwayAway", but whatever, the point is that nick changes for status don't bother me)
20160627 14:47:59< celticminstrel> There's a facility in IRC to give a detailed explanation of your absence, but I don't think a lot of people use it.
20160627 14:48:27< DeFender1031> That too.
20160627 14:48:30< loonycyborg> there is away state
20160627 14:48:50< loonycyborg> bouncers can automatically turn it on if you disconnect client
20160627 14:48:52< DeFender1031> Though IINM, it only triggers in PM
20160627 14:49:05< DeFender1031> the nick change is visible in channel too.
20160627 14:49:13< celticminstrel> Away message is also shown in /whois
20160627 14:49:36< DeFender1031> that said, i'm more in favor of banning both the messages and the nick changes than i am in favor of people being allowed to use both.
20160627 14:49:52< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, fine, but you don't often whois people in a channel.
20160627 14:49:53< celticminstrel> Why?
20160627 14:50:03< celticminstrel> True.
20160627 14:50:17< DeFender1031> i meant if it was a choice between banning both and allowing both. ideally, i'd allow nick and ban message.
20160627 14:50:27< DeFender1031> and because the messages are just so dang annoying.
20160627 14:50:33< DeFender1031> and imagine if everyone was doing it.
20160627 14:51:01< celticminstrel> I can't remember exactly, but they might actually block PMs, which isn't useful.
20160627 14:51:04< DeFender1031> there might be some relevant discussion going on, but good luck finding it between all the "i'm leaving now" "i'm coming back now"
20160627 14:51:17< DeFender1031> who may block PMs?
20160627 14:51:22< celticminstrel>  /away
20160627 14:51:59< DeFender1031> not naturally... i suppose someone may set up their client to ALSO turn on PM blocking when they set away status, but that's not default.
20160627 14:52:51< DeFender1031> Nor useful, IMO.
20160627 14:55:09< zookeeper> i'm not annoyed by away nick changes, i've been looking at them daily for the past 10 years or so
20160627 14:56:56< zookeeper> plus they have a certain utility in places like this where you often need to address specific people so it's handy if you immediately see if they're (probably) available, without needing to /whois every one of them.
20160627 14:59:30< vultraz> in my client their names are grayed out if they're away
20160627 15:01:34< celticminstrel> I don't believe that's very reliable.
20160627 15:01:50< celticminstrel> I think that kind of thing is usually based on time since they last sent a message.
20160627 15:02:07< celticminstrel> Though I suppose it could also be based on the actual /away setting sometimes.
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20160627 15:07:57< zookeeper> i doubt the client actually constantly polls every single user on all the channels its own to retrieve their away status.
20160627 15:08:07< zookeeper> and unless i'm missing something, that's what it'd need to do
20160627 15:12:25< celticminstrel> I think you're right there. The /away command doesn't broadcast.
20160627 15:12:33< celticminstrel> As far as I know.
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20160627 15:14:00< vultraz> i dunno
20160627 15:14:03< vultraz> it's just what I see
20160627 15:15:14< celticminstrel> I see names grayed out too.
20160627 15:15:22< celticminstrel> Sometimes.
20160627 15:15:28< celticminstrel> I'm not really sure what it actually means.
20160627 15:15:33< zookeeper> vultraz, well, say when i go gray
20160627 15:15:41< celticminstrel> No-one is grayed out in here though, oddly.
20160627 15:15:50< vultraz> it takes a minute or two
20160627 15:18:31< vultraz> or longer
20160627 15:19:36< zookeeper> been almost 4 already!
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20160627 15:19:58 * Gejoba returns
20160627 15:20:02< zookeeper> ...
20160627 15:20:10< zookeeper> Gejoba, turn off those notices, please.
20160627 15:20:25-!- Gejoba [~gejoba@unaffiliated/gejoba] has left #wesnoth ["Felt like leaving."]
20160627 15:20:32< zookeeper> well, that works too
20160627 15:23:19< celticminstrel> Oh yeah, people who announce in the channel when they're away/back are annoying.
20160627 15:24:13< celticminstrel> Some people even have it set up so that it happens automatically after a certain idle period, which is absolutely ridiculous.
20160627 15:24:24< celticminstrel> (Being idle doesn't mean you're not here, after all.)
20160627 15:24:42< vultraz> zookeeper: well you're not away anymore :|
20160627 15:25:00< zookeeper> well it's only a problem when it's automatic. saying you're back if someone might be expecting you to announce when you're back is a different thing :p
20160627 15:25:24< celticminstrel> Yes.
20160627 15:25:27< celticminstrel> Only if it's automatic.
20160627 15:25:48< zookeeper> vultraz, yeah i got tired on being away. which is ironic since i'm not actually kind of away!
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20160627 16:00:28< DeFender1031> right, there's a difference between "hey, we were in the middle of a conversation and i had to leave so i'm telling you i'm back" and "nothing is going on where anyone remotely cares whether i'm here or not, but i'm going to tell you every time i leave and come back anyway". I'd call it a "fine line", but it's actually closer to the kind of line that's visible from space.
20160627 16:00:48< zookeeper> yeah
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--- Log closed Tue Jun 28 00:00:03 2016