--- Log opened Thu Jul 21 00:00:20 2016
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20160721 03:38:32< kool> hi
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20160721 03:40:26< celticminstrel> Or not.
20160721 04:02:40< Aginor> celticminstrel: you didn't respond within 1 minute, I'd have lost patience and interest too :D
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20160721 04:10:25< celticminstrel> Have time to look at PRs now?
20160721 04:12:47< Aginor> celticminstrel: still at work, sorry
20160721 04:13:18< Aginor> celticminstrel: later today though
20160721 04:14:29< celticminstrel> Whoa it's Thursday already.
20160721 04:14:34< celticminstrel> I should sleep.
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20160721 04:29:27< Aginor> celticminstrel: Thursday afternoon if you ask me ;)
20160721 04:29:48 * Aginor makes obligatory joke about living in the future
20160721 04:30:49< iceiceice> loonycyborg, Rhonda, I think you are understating the value
20160721 04:30:56< iceiceice> "< loonycyborg> iirc to make life easier for UMC creators"
20160721 04:31:10< iceiceice> a better way to describe it would be, wesnoth doesn't support translated user made campaigns right now
20160721 04:31:18< iceiceice> and after spirit-po branch, it will
20160721 04:32:04< iceiceice> using mo files isn't an issue for most unix applications
20160721 04:32:21< iceiceice> but for any program that wants to add translated content after the fact, it creates a huge distribution problem
20160721 04:33:08< iceiceice> iirc wescamp has not been active in like 5 years
20160721 04:33:33< iceiceice> it's far simpler just to load po files
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20160721 05:04:59< Rhonda> iceiceice: How does it not support translated UMC?  I fail to see that.  Why can't UMC use msgfmt?
20160721 05:05:08< iceiceice> because how do they distribute it?
20160721 05:05:11< iceiceice> mo files are not portable
20160721 05:05:20< Rhonda> In po format.
20160721 05:05:26< iceiceice> so then what do the players do?
20160721 05:05:31< iceiceice> they have to run msgfmt themselves?
20160721 05:05:48< Rhonda> Ah, wait.  Not portable.  I think I see what you mean there.
20160721 05:06:49< iceiceice> in the past i guess we worked around it by like
20160721 05:06:53< iceiceice> ai0867 had some bash script
20160721 05:07:04< iceiceice> that would generate the mos for each campaigna nd each target architecture
20160721 05:07:11< iceiceice> but no one wants to maintain that anymore
20160721 05:08:10< vultraz> I'm pretty sure some campaigns have translated umc
20160721 05:08:11< vultraz> er
20160721 05:08:14< vultraz> some umc are translated
20160721 05:08:16< vultraz> blah
20160721 05:14:16 * Rhonda asking in #debian-i18n which should contain people working in this area and hopefully have a bit of knowledge on what other projects might do. :)
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20160721 05:23:09< celticminstrel> I guess I'll try to remember to check the logs tomorrow. Feel free to remind me if there's something I should be responding to, though.
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20160721 06:03:09< iceiceice> Rhonda, cool, I would be quite interested to hear what they say
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20160721 06:24:43< shadowm> "a better way to describe it [...] doesn't support"
20160721 06:24:59< shadowm> There's a difference between not supporting X and support for X being fundamentally broken in some way.
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20160721 06:30:20< iceiceice> shadowm, i disagree
20160721 06:31:00< shadowm> Then we're probably speaking different languages.
20160721 06:31:12< shadowm> One question: how is the mo format not portable?
20160721 06:32:16< shadowm> Are we talking about gettext being unavailable on specific platforms, or about the mo format being architecture-dependent?
20160721 06:32:18< iceiceice> i didn't write "msgfmt" or "libintl", so i can't speak to it in all the gory detail, but all the documentation says its not portable
20160721 06:32:51< shadowm> I'm asking because I just noticed that the platform-independent libc-l10n package in Debian is full of .mo files.
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20160721 06:36:06< shadowm> If that were truly platform-dependent then I'd imagine users of architectures other than the one used in whatever build server builds each revision of it wouldn't have been very pleased for the past 17 years that glibc has been in Debian.
20160721 06:39:42< iceiceice> so what are you proposing exactly?
20160721 06:39:52< shadowm> I asked you a question.
20160721 06:39:59< iceiceice> you want that umc people should run msgfmt and commit the .mo files to their addons?
20160721 06:40:07< iceiceice> and hope that it works on all architectures?
20160721 06:40:24< iceiceice> i have no idea about some debian libc package, you could ask them
20160721 06:40:29< shadowm> That depends on the answer to my question.
20160721 06:40:42< iceiceice> if you think the gnu gettext docs are wrong and .mo files really are portable,
20160721 06:40:50< iceiceice> i guess you could suggest that gnu correct it
20160721 06:41:07< shadowm> Let me rephrase my question then. Where in the documention is their non-portability pointed out?
20160721 06:41:09< iceiceice> i'd rather just take the documentation at face value until someone authoritative says otherwise
20160721 06:41:27< iceiceice> i'll find a link, one sec
20160721 06:41:33< shadowm> Mind you, I'm not questioning your argument, I'm merely curious.
20160721 06:42:54< iceiceice> https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Files.html#Files
20160721 06:42:59< shadowm> Also, to my knowledge WesCamp never produced more than one .mo file per add-on/target language pair.
20160721 06:43:14< shadowm> So WesCamp may have already been broken to begin with.
20160721 06:43:17< iceiceice> i see
20160721 06:43:23< iceiceice> i guess i have only the vaguest ideas how wescamp actually worked
20160721 06:43:32< iceiceice> how did it actually distribute the mo's ?
20160721 06:43:35< iceiceice> was it linked into the add-on server?
20160721 06:43:37< shadowm> It's secondary function, generating the .po files, however, was not broken and was actually quite welcome.
20160721 06:43:48< shadowm> Or primary, rather.
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20160721 06:47:15< shadowm> The last paragraph is actually very vague.
20160721 06:48:07< shadowm> "The format of [the MO files generated by a few systems' native toolchains] is [...] non-portable. [...] Therefore GNU gettext uses its own format for MO files."
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20160721 06:51:17< iceiceice> idk
20160721 06:51:21< iceiceice> it seems to say its not portable
20160721 06:51:30< iceiceice> also there is another section that describes the mo format
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20160721 06:51:39< iceiceice> and it seems to say that you should store integers directly as binary
20160721 06:51:41< shadowm> Re WesCamp, how it was expected to work (you will let me finish) was as follows: add-ons get automatically added to the WesCamp repository, their po catalogues are automatically generated, translators submit updates to those, the mo files are regenerated and the add-ons on the add-ons server get the updated mo files. The content creators are completely passive participants in this process and ...
20160721 06:51:43< Rhonda> It says the original mo is not portable.  The one produced by gnu gettext is.
20160721 06:51:47< shadowm> ... nothing is required from them beyond setting up l10n support in their add-ons (#textdomain, [textdomain], etc.).
20160721 06:52:02< iceiceice> Rhonda, so if it is portable,
20160721 06:52:08< iceiceice> then why do we have to build msgfmt into the build system
20160721 06:52:17< iceiceice> why cant pot-update simply also run msgfmt
20160721 06:52:21< iceiceice> and commit all the mos to the repostory
20160721 06:52:22< shadowm> Now I will tell you how it worked before AI0867's takeover, back when I could actually be bothered to deal with translations.
20160721 06:52:24< Rhonda> Because .po isn't .mo?
20160721 06:52:37< Rhonda> That's a quite silly and sidetracking question somehow.
20160721 06:52:43< iceiceice> it significantly complicates the build system that allt he users have to install msgfmt and run it
20160721 06:52:56< iceiceice> most C++ developers that i worked with believed that
20160721 06:53:01< iceiceice> the reason we have to do that is that .mo is not portable
20160721 06:53:10< Rhonda> Because .mo isn't human readable.  It's Machine readable.  And we need human readable files for tweaking.
20160721 06:53:29< iceiceice> yeah but it would be way simpler to just commit your .mo files to your repository
20160721 06:53:36< Rhonda> It doesn't complicate anything, that's a huge exaggeration.
20160721 06:53:37< iceiceice> and make your pot update script also run msgfmt
20160721 06:53:42< iceiceice> Rhonda, it does
20160721 06:53:54< Rhonda> It's part of basic toolchain.
20160721 06:53:57< iceiceice> it means that your build system has to handle finding and running msgfmt
20160721 06:54:02< iceiceice> otherwise it can simply invoke the C++ compiler
20160721 06:54:22< Rhonda> Repeating that .mo isn't portable without proof of that (and also proof of the contrary being done actually) doesn't make it true.
20160721 06:54:39< iceiceice> can you point to anyone authoritative saying that .mo is portable?
20160721 06:54:44< Rhonda> The build system handles *way* more than just a c++ compiler.
20160721 06:54:53< iceiceice> for many simple projects, it doesn't
20160721 06:55:02< Rhonda> wesnoth isn't a simple project.
20160721 06:55:12< iceiceice> the docs seem to say it isn't, and the established practice among developers indicates that it isn't
20160721 06:55:20< Rhonda> Can you please node sidetrack with statements that aren't relevant here?
20160721 06:55:21< iceiceice> also the conventional wisdom is that it is't
20160721 06:55:27< iceiceice> they are relevant
20160721 06:55:31< Rhonda> Your interpretation of the docs say that.
20160721 06:55:54< Rhonda> It's not relevant to speak of simple projects.
20160721 06:56:02< iceiceice> there are many other sections in the docs that talk about it
20160721 06:56:34< shadowm> I'm not finished writing my explanation of WesCamp, but wouldn't the easiest way to answer the question of whether .mo files *as generated by GNU gettext* are portable or not be to ask whatever mailing list there is for GNU gettext?
20160721 06:56:42< iceiceice> again if you can point to anyone authoritative saying ".mo files produces by msgfmt are portable" in unambiguous language i would love to see it
20160721 06:56:46< shadowm> Probaly somethingsomething@gnu.org.
20160721 06:57:50< shadowm> Add-ons get manually added to the WesCamp repository, their po catalogues are automatically generated by a person running make whatever as part of the same step. Thus far it doesn't seem too different from the ideal scenario above, right? Well, now translators submit updates to those, and maybe get in arguments with the mainline translation teams as to whether or not do things a certain way or ...
20160721 06:57:56< shadowm> ... not (or maybe work completely independently of the mainline translation team and produce translations that are inconsistent with the mainline style). Anyway, once translations are committed, someone has to compile them, but that someone in my experience was usually me, the add-on maintainer. There was no mechanism in place to automatically update the add-ons on the add-ons server with the ...
20160721 06:58:02< shadowm> ... updated translations -- or more generally, to automatically update add-ons in the server without the maintainer's intervention.
20160721 06:58:43< shadowm> Then the WesCamp maintainer would have to manually update the add-on on WesCamp the next time it was updated on the add-ons server and the cycle repeats.
20160721 06:58:49< Rhonda> iceiceice: Why do you think Debian ships .mo files in arch:all packages?  Why do you think .mo files are stored in /usr/share instead of /usr/lib?  Yes, because they are architecture independent.  That's why.
20160721 07:00:05< shadowm> After AI0867's takeover I believe the add-to-WesCamp/update-to-WesCamp steps were automated but the rest of my description still applied, as far as I remember (he took over during a period of time when I couldn't keep track of translation updates anymore for unrelated reasons).
20160721 07:00:37 * Rhonda heads to work.
20160721 07:00:43< iceiceice> Rhonda, interesting, thanks
20160721 07:01:00< shadowm> The most important thing I want people to get out of this is the point that WesCamp's focus was the po files, not the mo files.
20160721 07:01:02< iceiceice> shadowm, sorry, i will read your exposition of wescamp now
20160721 07:05:47< shadowm> And sure, generating po files isn't rocket science if 1) you can use the command line, or write your own Makefile (and use make); or 2) have the patience to figure out the underdocumented wmlxgettext tool and its proper usage in a UMC context; but these aren't things that can be expected from most add-ons creators, are they? Ultimately you'll find that regardless of whether we transition to po ...
20160721 07:05:53< shadowm> ... file parsing, add-on translations are still fundamentally broken.
20160721 07:06:24< iceiceice> i think there was someone working on a new wmlgettext
20160721 07:06:40< iceiceice> Elvish_Hunter repeatedly mentioned that nobun was doing this
20160721 07:06:45< iceiceice> i seem to recall
20160721 07:06:46< shadowm> THe same points would continue to apply to it.
20160721 07:06:53< shadowm> Except for the underdocumented part, granted.
20160721 07:06:57< iceiceice> hehe
20160721 07:06:59< iceiceice> idk i mean
20160721 07:07:29< iceiceice> well
20160721 07:07:36< shadowm> Although if someone wrote an easy-to-use GUI for it that'd probably solve most of the problem.
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20160721 07:07:37< iceiceice> i guess you are right in that sense
20160721 07:07:43< iceiceice> if in fact .mo files are portable,
20160721 07:07:59< iceiceice> then anyone who can handle running wmlgettext over their whole add-on
20160721 07:08:05< iceiceice> probably can also hanlde running msgfmt
20160721 07:08:30< iceiceice> idk
20160721 07:08:43< iceiceice> the early version of spirit-po was actually just a little po parser routine in anura
20160721 07:08:57< shadowm> I belive poedit (a GUI po editor) has or had back in the day (when I was a translator back in 2007) an option to compile the currently open catalogue.
20160721 07:09:06< iceiceice> dave was a fan of the idea, i think he said something like "binary formats are 1995"
20160721 07:09:46< iceiceice> but yeah, i was pretty sure they weren't portable, so i'm surprised to hear that they actually are
20160721 07:10:07< iceiceice> i still think its better to read po at runtime though, for most games
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20160721 09:21:02< zookeeper> what the...
20160721 09:21:27< zookeeper> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/ServerAdministration <- so, there's "/query ban <mask> <reason>:" there
20160721 09:21:47< zookeeper> but if you go edit the page, the code actually says "'''/query ban <mask> <time> <reason>''':"
20160721 09:22:23< zookeeper> why is <time> disappearing? it doesn't for gban and kban
20160721 09:22:45< shadowm> Because <time> is an HTML tag.
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20160721 09:23:26< iceiceice> that is the most evil bug
20160721 09:23:27< iceiceice> wow
20160721 09:24:09< shadowm> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/semantics.html#the-time-element
20160721 09:25:20< JyrkiVesterinen> The MediaWiki wiki also says that <time> is allowed in wikitext: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:HTML_in_wikitext
20160721 09:26:07< shadowm> I believe MW allows all HTML tags and attributes that can't be used in an unsafe fashion.
20160721 09:27:32< zookeeper> yeah it does get turned into <time> &lt;reason&gt;</time> in the html code, but what i don't get is why doesn't it happen for all instances of <time>?
20160721 09:28:33< zookeeper> 1: /query ban &lt;mask&gt; <time> &lt;reason&gt;</time>
20160721 09:28:34< zookeeper> 2: /query gban &lt;mask&gt; &lt;group&gt; &lt;time&gt; &lt;reason&gt;
20160721 09:31:01< shadowm> It is a mystery.
20160721 09:31:48< zookeeper> exciting!
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20160721 09:56:54< iceiceice> shadowm, i poked around a bit more in the gettext headers, just to figure this out,
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20160721 09:57:11< iceiceice> so the answer is, the machine does indeed write "uint32" to the binary file in an architecture dependent way
20160721 09:57:19< iceiceice> but the endianness is resolved by checking a magic number at the start
20160721 09:57:52< iceiceice> and i guess there are no other portability issues
20160721 09:58:35< iceiceice> also a kind of wierd thing that is mentioned in the docs:
20160721 09:58:37< iceiceice> https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/MO-Files.html#MO-Files
20160721 09:58:46< iceiceice> "The size S of the hash table can be zero. In this case, the hash table itself is not contained in the MO file. Some people might prefer this because a precomputed hashing table takes disk space, and does not win that much speed. The hash table contains indices to the sorted array of strings in the MO file. Conflict resolution is done by double hashing. The precise hashing algorithm used is fairly dependent on GNU gettext code, and is n
20160721 09:58:46< iceiceice> ot documented here. "
20160721 09:59:33< iceiceice> so at least sometimes, it appears that the only thing msgfmt may be doing is sorting hte messages by mgsid
20160721 09:59:43< iceiceice> and then libintl will do binary search
20160721 09:59:47< iceiceice> if it doesn't find a hash table
20160721 10:00:30< iceiceice> in that case the binary format doesn't seem worth it imo
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20160721 10:44:11< Aginor> Celticminstrel: I've looked and the pr looks alright... how do I test it though?
20160721 10:45:23< Aginor> I see no calls to animation::debug() 
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20160721 13:47:11< mattsc> zookeeper, all: are you aware of any mainline scenarios that would significantly benefit from simple or medium-complex custom AIs.
20160721 13:47:16< mattsc> [In principle, this should be preceded by the question whether we want custom AIs in mainline scenarios other than the few special cases that already exist.]
20160721 13:48:35< mattsc> And my motivation here is that I am looking for something that is more fun than the impossible problem I am currently working on.  As a distraction for a while, essentially.
20160721 13:48:50< vultraz> the question to you second question is yes
20160721 13:49:22< vultraz> I don't know any scenarios off the top of my head
20160721 13:49:44< mattsc> hi vultraz 
20160721 13:50:44< mattsc> I don’t even really care if it gets used.  Ideas for something that could be useful are good too.  A new MAI or something …
20160721 13:56:23< vultraz> There are a few capture villages scenarios by the AI, but honestly mainline doesn't do anything really special
20160721 13:58:27< mattsc> Right.  It could be UMC too, I don’t care.  I’m just a bit hesitant to ask this question on the forums, because I’ll have to spend most of the time explaining why “the AI should defend better” is not a useful suggestion.  ;)
20160721 13:58:37< mattsc> Just being cynical here, btw.  I might do so anyway.
20160721 14:01:02< vultraz> I really can't think of much right now
20160721 14:01:04< vultraz> sorry
20160721 14:02:08< mattsc> No worries.  I’ve likely spent uch more time thinking about this.  I do have some ideas, but am not sure whether I want to work on those without a motivation.
20160721 14:02:42< mattsc> I guess I could turn the high-XP-ayyack test AI into a real MAI…
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20160721 14:36:23< zookeeper> mattsc, maybe, but the thing is that often that sort of thing would go with a more general redesign of the scenario. if we're talking about making the AI do something unusual as opposed to just playing better on a given map.
20160721 14:40:00< zookeeper> for example, i'm thinking of SoF S7, which could perhaps be made more interesting if the chasing outriders could have a unique AI, but that would then include redesigning the map and possibly the peasant mechanics, etc.
20160721 14:42:29< zookeeper> also, EI S4a, where the assassin should be an actual ambusher assassin lurking through the woods... although i don't recall whether the current rewrite plans included scrapping that scenario or not
20160721 14:42:53< mattsc> zookeeper: yeah, understood.  And no worries, I didn’t expect there to be an “easy” answer.  Just figured I’d ask anyway.
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20160721 14:52:28< zookeeper> mattsc, also maybe liberty 5 could be done with a custom AI instead of the events that switch units between two sides, but the event logic is actually pretty simple so maybe not worth the effort since the end result would remain the same.
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20160721 14:56:26< zookeeper> maybe DiD 9 could have a better custom AI for darken volk's movements (going for the book, going for the exit)
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20160721 14:57:09< zookeeper> maybe even trying to discreetly use his units to block malin in certain places, if possible. but that might get pretty tricky and possibly annoying.
20160721 14:59:10< celticminstrel> Aginor: Uh... no idea. Could add one?
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20160721 15:20:55< celticminstrel> Aginor: Though if there's really no entry point into it, maybe there's no reason not to merge it?
20160721 15:23:13< mattsc> zookeeper: I agree that I don’t really see the point in doing something that won’t change anything (that’s on Liberty S5)
20160721 15:23:36< mattsc> I’ll have a look at DiD 9.  It’s been a while since I played that.
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20160721 16:01:05< zookeeper> mattsc, i can't off the top of my head say whether a more fanciful AI would make that scenario more interesting, but i suppose you're about to find out.
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20160721 16:21:45< irker257> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 6ed995c53e92 / src/ (playmp_controller.cpp playsingle_controller.cpp units/animation_component.cpp): Cleaned up some units/animation.hpp includes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6ed995c53e92facb09eb748f4f0536628058fac7
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20160721 21:24:26< Aginor> celticminstrel: I'm wondering if I missed something, but I couldn't find anything yesterday
20160721 21:24:37< celmin> ???
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20160721 21:25:05< Aginor> celmin: responding to your response from 7h ago ;)
20160721 21:25:21< celmin> That was in response to your comment about the PR or something.
20160721 21:25:28< celmin> Something about animatin::debug I think
20160721 21:25:32< celmin> ^animation
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20160721 21:40:18< Aginor> yeah
20160721 21:40:24< Aginor> or unit_animation::Debug
20160721 21:40:54< Aginor> I couldn't find any way to invoke and test it ;)
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20160721 21:41:15< celmin> Then maybe it doesn't matter and can just be merged for now?
20160721 21:41:26< celmin> Alternatively, add in a way to invoke it.
20160721 21:41:37< celmin> I imagine it could be made use of somehow.
20160721 21:41:52< Aginor> I'll add something to run it and test it
20160721 21:42:16< Aginor> I'd have preferred to test it the "proper" way but couldn't find that ;)
20160721 21:42:19< celmin> Outputting it to some log stream would not be amiss.
20160721 21:42:35< Aginor> yeah
20160721 21:43:43< Aginor> anyhow, I also asked Jyrki to enable monte carly by default and suggest we don't merge it until after the release
20160721 21:44:06< celmin> Yeah, I saw
20160721 21:44:13< Aginor> I'm tempted to say the same about this PR as it won't matter if it waits a few more days
20160721 21:44:21< celmin> I guess this is true
20160721 21:44:35< celmin> Since it doesn't affect anything it doesn't really matter when it's merged.
20160721 21:44:45< Aginor> indeed
20160721 21:45:14< Aginor> I'll also try to look rather carefully at the monte carlo code over the weekend
20160721 21:45:40< Aginor> one of the thigns to wathc out for is if it might not converge at some point ;)
20160721 21:45:40< celmin> I think I have a couple changelog things to add… what were they again… role and something else...
20160721 21:45:45< Aginor> leaving us with an infinite loop
20160721 21:45:53< celmin> (Though I kinda want Gregory's role stuff in the release too.)
20160721 21:46:08< Aginor> will it break things?
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20160721 21:46:36< celmin> It shouldn't. I guess I can look over it again to be sure. You could as well.
20160721 21:47:11< Aginor> I know nothing about the WML so I don't think I'd add any value
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20160721 21:47:39< celmin> It's a Lua PR. I was only suggesting to verify that existing logic remains unchanged.
20160721 21:47:46< Aginor> right
20160721 21:47:58< Aginor> I'll see if I can carve off some time to look
20160721 21:48:04< celmin> I wonder if Gregory's other campaign PRs will be ready for 1.13.5. Starting to look like they might not be...
20160721 21:48:05< Aginor> won't be before the weekend though
20160721 21:48:19< Aginor> no harm if it isn't
20160721 21:48:28< Aginor> let's make 1.13.6 in a month or so
20160721 21:48:34< celmin> Sure, why not.
20160721 21:49:03< Aginor> I would suggest that the main goal of 1.13.6 should be to fix existing bugs and add polish
20160721 21:49:32< Aginor> let's try to strive towards having a 1.14.0RC1
20160721 21:49:32< celmin> I still have some stuff I'd like to add for Lua and maybe AI.
20160721 21:50:21 * Aginor nods
20160721 21:50:31< Aginor> there's some polishing needed around mousewheel actions
20160721 21:50:51< celmin> Oh right, my endlevel thing needs a changelog… actually, did gfgtf add a changelog for that yet...
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20160721 21:51:03< celmin> Mousewheel, huh
20160721 21:51:49< Aginor> it scrolls too many things at the same time
20160721 21:51:55< Aginor> and around ; - actions
20160721 21:52:07< celmin> Oh right, there was that crash in the MP test. It would be nice to figure that out.
20160721 21:52:13< Aginor> I discovered that I need to backspace every time
20160721 21:52:18< celmin> Though I don't know if anyone else can reproduce it.
20160721 21:52:31< Aginor> celmin: that crash would be a good thing to have resolved for 1.13.5
20160721 21:52:42< celmin> It's weird that corrupted gzip data would be transferred.
20160721 21:53:12< celmin> It would, yes.
20160721 21:53:34< zookeeper> i hope i can somehow get the UtBS stuff in 1.13.6.
20160721 21:53:52< celmin> That would be great, but do you think it'll be ready that soon/
20160721 21:53:54< celmin> ^?
20160721 21:54:20< Aginor> 1.13.6, 1.13.7, 1.14.0.RC0
20160721 21:54:23< Aginor> ;)
20160721 21:55:15< zookeeper> celmin, on some definition of "ready"
20160721 21:55:32< Aginor> what would be awesome would be if we could talk a company into lending us an experienced QA team/person for a while ;)
20160721 21:56:39< celmin> Okay, so I need changelog entries for PR670, endlevel data, [message]image_pos, Lua console clear button, and new [role] features… two of those also need wiki edits...
20160721 21:57:09< zookeeper> the sprites cannot be expected to happen, so we'd have a stable release with my crap placeholders. on the other hand, the old sprites are (partially) crappy too. but apparently all of the scenario-side redesign involved mysteriously also fell on me.
20160721 21:58:18< celmin> Oh, so it would be mainly just the mechanical side of things in 1.13.6?
20160721 21:59:15< celmin> BTW, vultraz: Would you mind taking a look at the Lua console and possibly adjusting the position of the clear button?
20160721 21:59:17< zookeeper> the mechanical and the placeholder sprites
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20160721 22:04:09< zookeeper> or maybe i should just revert the design to whatever i might have actually done with it myself originally
20160721 22:04:12< zookeeper> that'd save some trouble
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20160721 22:04:13< irker099> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 681322bf2935 / changelog: Update changelog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/681322bf2935ce08e2526d92b842aad86302afe6
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20160721 22:16:57< celmin> Incidentally, if anyone (Aginor?) want to compare the role changes, this may be better than the PR's diff since it incorporates my changes too and ignores whitespace:
20160721 22:16:59< celmin> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/compare/d4b8fec%5E...aaebbe3?w=1#diff-d471df014b92a45ed106cf664118b43c
20160721 22:17:31< celmin> Apparently the hash at the end has no effect. :/ Bad github.
20160721 22:18:00< vultraz> celticminstrel: ok
20160721 22:18:01 * celmin clicked on Files Changed, then 125 changed files, then scrolled down to data/lua/wml-tags.lua
20160721 22:19:31< celmin> Anyway, from that it seems very clear that it doesn't affect the flow at all in the case that search_map and search_recall are true, and no auto_recall or else tags are present.
20160721 22:19:50< celmin> (The former is the case if the search_recall_list key is set to yes.)
20160721 22:21:34< celmin> I'm sure there was something else I was going to do… now what was it...
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20160721 22:37:50< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: oh right UtBS
20160721 22:38:08< bumbadadabum> I know Espreon and I wanted to redesign it years ago but that kinda went nowhere
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20160721 22:45:36< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9899 (master - 681322b : Celtic Minstrel): The build has errored.
20160721 22:45:36< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/146507509
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20160721 22:45:50< zookeeper> well, now it kind of went 2/3 of the way
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20160721 23:53:06< celmin> "The one which is most annoying, today, is that the semi-colon for the command line does not get removed and I keep forgetting to ';' 'debug' and get the error ';debug is unknown' or some such."
20160721 23:53:18< celmin> This should probably be fixed before 1.13.5.
20160721 23:53:20< Aginor> I alluded to that previously
20160721 23:53:26< celmin> Did you? I think I missed that.
20160721 23:53:43< Aginor> I won't have time to fix that before we cut to 1.13.5
20160721 23:53:56< Aginor> although it should be easy enough, so maybe
20160721 23:54:09< Aginor> depending on when we do cut it
20160721 23:55:50< celmin> I'll try to look into it as well.
20160721 23:55:51-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20160721 23:57:27-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The minstrel departs, to spread the music to the masses!]
20160721 23:57:59< bumbadadabum> celticminstrel: pls do
20160721 23:58:19< bumbadadabum> it's so annoying when I'm trying to cheat I mean debug scenarios
--- Log closed Fri Jul 22 00:00:17 2016