--- Log opened Thu Jul 28 00:00:47 2016
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20160728 00:00:54< Espreon> racv could be changed to racv_ES, since it's only spoken in Spain.
20160728 00:01:14< Espreon> (Though, our treatment of the RACV's codification of Valencian is absurd...)
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20160728 00:02:45< Espreon> (Well, maybe not as far as locale codes go, since they say that it's "not Catalan", but rather an independent language, and since there is no independent code for this language...)
20160728 00:03:12< ancestral> es_CAT wouldn’t be used?
20160728 00:03:26< ancestral> (like en_GB, en_US)
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20160728 00:04:01< Espreon> es is Spanish
20160728 00:04:10< Espreon> And they do not define Valencian as Spanish
20160728 00:04:59< Espreon> If you want to define things by linguistic reality: ca_ES@valencia-racv, but they say it's "not Catalan", so "ca" would be inappropriate from their standpoint
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20160728 00:05:38< Espreon> Plus, why "CAT"?
20160728 00:05:52< Espreon> Valencian is spoken in Valencia, not Catalonia.
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20160728 00:09:39< celmin> gfgtdf: Actually it was noticed, I just didn't recognize it as the same error.
20160728 00:09:48< celmin> Or even as a bad formula...
20160728 00:10:42< celmin> mattsc: I would have thought that the recruit engines for each side are different "instances"...
20160728 00:11:17< celmin> In any case, it should be fine if the ai parameter is removed from there (or renamed to "ai_old" or something to preserve compatibility and ignore it).
20160728 00:11:24< celmin> I could be wrong, mind you.
20160728 00:11:33< celmin> But I don't know any reason why that would cause problems.
20160728 00:12:13< celmin> (BTW, what is racv?)
20160728 00:12:23< mattsc> celmin: yes, they should be different instances.  At least if I understand what that means.  Nevertheless the ai tables get confused.
20160728 00:12:38< mattsc> Does your last staement apply to MP AIs as well?
20160728 00:13:32< mattsc> In any case, if you’re not entirely sure either, I’ll have to do some more testing.
20160728 00:13:38< Espreon> celmin: racv is the pseudo-code we use for the RACV's codification of Valencian. RACV = Real Acadèmia de Cultura Valenciana
20160728 00:16:33< celmin> If you mean the racv comment, that was unrelated (thus the parentheses).
20160728 00:16:39< Espreon> ca_ES@valencia, on the other hand, is the AVL's codification thereof. The AVL, the Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua, is the academy with legal force, and their stuff is what gets taught in schools.
20160728 00:17:11< mattsc> celmin: no, I meant your last statement, not your last qeustion.  ;)   (I understood that it was unrelated)
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20160728 00:18:22< celmin> I don't know any reason why it wouldn't apply to MP AIs.
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20160728 00:19:32< mattsc> Okay; well, as it ripples through several AIs, I’ll do the testing sometime anyway.  It needs to be changed in a couple places.
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20160728 00:22:34< mattsc> celmin: since this is all development version internal only, I’ll not use the ai_old trick though.  People using the [micro_ai] tag, the MP AIs from the menu, or including the .cfg to activate the AI won’t notice any difference.
20160728 00:23:15< celmin> Or experimental ai
20160728 00:23:21< mattsc> And I doubt that anybody other than myself calls the function itself from an add-on, but if somebody does, they’ll figure this out.
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20160728 00:23:23< mattsc> right
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20160728 00:38:46< Espreon> Scratch what I said about ./wesnoth -L racv not working
20160728 00:38:53< Espreon> It just wasn't evident from the main screen
20160728 00:39:30< ancestral> Espreon: Why CAT? Why .cat?
20160728 00:39:36< ancestral> http://nyan.cat
20160728 00:39:46< Espreon> ...
20160728 00:39:47< ancestral> It’s a Catalonian web site
20160728 00:39:51< Espreon> ...
20160728 00:40:00< ancestral> *Catalanian
20160728 00:40:04< Espreon> ...
20160728 00:40:20< Espreon> Anyway, I don't think "CAT" is valid in these codes.
20160728 00:40:46< Espreon> And for this particular thing, it would just not make sense at all.
20160728 00:41:36< gfgtdf> ancestral: did you fix your compilation issues?
20160728 00:41:44< gfgtdf> celmin: or did you ?
20160728 00:41:46< ancestral> Espreon: ISO 639-2 and 639-3
20160728 00:41:57< ancestral> ISO 639-1 does list it as ca
20160728 00:42:05< ancestral> gfgtdf: It’s Boost
20160728 00:42:16< ancestral> Wesnoth doesn’t build with Boost in 1.60
20160728 00:42:17< celmin> I had plans for something which might fix ancestral's issues, though maybe he could also fix it by using older Boost?
20160728 00:42:18< Espreon> ancestral: You wanted "es_CAT", CAT being the region.
20160728 00:42:25< gfgtdf> ancestral: it does, im using boost 1.60 aswell
20160728 00:42:47< ancestral> Espreon: “[7:03pm] ancestral: es_CAT wouldn’t be used? [7:03pm] ancestral: (like en_GB, en_US)”
20160728 00:42:54< Espreon> es is Spanish
20160728 00:43:10< Aginor> did we find the cause of the assertion error?
20160728 00:43:20< gfgtdf> Aginor: yes we did
20160728 00:43:37< gfgtdf> Aginor: assuming you mean the assertionnoticed by Espreon 
20160728 00:43:39< ancestral> gfgtdf: Well that’s interesting
20160728 00:43:56< Espreon> It is true that "ca" = Catalan, but it is not suitable for the RACV's codification of Valencian, since the RACV says that it is an independent language from Catalan rather than a dialect thereof.
20160728 00:43:57< ancestral> It fails on BOOST_STATIC_ASSERT for bind
20160728 00:44:08< Espreon> It's not suitable from their viewpoint, I mean.
20160728 00:44:37< ancestral> Seeing that we’re talking about languages and translations, can we hide very incomplete translations from the Language window?
20160728 00:44:55< gfgtdf> ancestral: y its mostlikely casued by the combination of std::bind with boost::placeholders with you libc++ version.
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20160728 00:45:16< ancestral> It’s a disservice to show users that we give Old English or Friulian an option when there’s literally only one string translated in the core packages
20160728 00:45:37< Espreon> OE gives a lot more than one string.
20160728 00:45:47< Espreon> The runic version, however...
20160728 00:46:02< ancestral> https://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/?package=allcore&order=trans&version=branch
20160728 00:46:23< Espreon> ang = OE in runic, ang@latin = OE in the Latin alphabet
20160728 00:46:32< celmin> I don't know if there's any way to detect translation completeness.
20160728 00:46:37< Espreon> But yes, give an option to hide these, I guess.
20160728 00:46:46< Espreon> It would be nice.
20160728 00:46:50< ancestral> celmin: It doesn’t, we need to define what is “complete”
20160728 00:47:11< ancestral> We discussed this before. There was another project (can’t rememebr what) that said 95% was what they went for
20160728 00:47:11< celmin> That too. I think vultraz's criterai for Steam was something like 80%.
20160728 00:47:19< celmin> ^criteria
20160728 00:47:24< ancestral> I think 80% is reasonable, and assuming the UI is fully translated
20160728 00:47:30< vultraz> Yes, 85%
20160728 00:47:33< vultraz> 80
20160728 00:47:35< vultraz> sorry
20160728 00:47:35< ancestral> Like, you know, the main menu and menu options
20160728 00:47:36< vultraz> 80%
20160728 00:47:38< ancestral> Cool
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20160728 00:47:50< ancestral> So we just need to hide the ones below 80% in the game
20160728 00:47:55< ancestral> Perhaps manually
20160728 00:48:09< celmin> Yeah, maybe 80% with specific focus on the most important textdomains.
20160728 00:48:09< ancestral> And motivate translators to get the others up to par
20160728 00:48:20< ancestral> I would suggest the core packages myself
20160728 00:48:21< celmin> It could easily be done manually, I think.
20160728 00:48:41< ancestral> BTW that still leaves 18 languages
20160728 00:48:47< ancestral> Which is outstanding imo
20160728 00:49:08< celmin> There's 12 listed on Steam.
20160728 00:49:18< celmin> (Or 13 if you count the two Chinese separately.)
20160728 00:49:36< ancestral> Scots Gaelic and Galician were probably left out
20160728 00:49:45< ancestral> Latvian?
20160728 00:50:03< ancestral> Vietnamese?
20160728 00:50:13< ancestral> All of those appear to be fairly complete
20160728 00:50:13< celmin> All not listed.
20160728 00:50:31< celmin> Wait, is Scots Gaelic more complete than Irish Gaelic?
20160728 00:50:54< ancestral> Looks so
20160728 00:51:06< ancestral> 32	Irish (ga)	2262	50.54%
20160728 00:51:09< celmin> Huh.
20160728 00:51:09< gfgtdf> ancestral: please try to cimpile this example code: http://pastebin.com/U6YH5st8
20160728 00:51:34< ancestral> With boost or without?
20160728 00:51:44< Aginor> I should look at the Swedish translation
20160728 00:51:46< ancestral> I don’t see boost, so
20160728 00:51:49< celmin> Not Boost-dependent, so presumably without.
20160728 00:51:50< Espreon> ancestral: Though, why do you think it ought to be under es_?
20160728 00:52:01< celmin> Catalan obviously should not be under es_.
20160728 00:52:07< Espreon> He said it should...
20160728 00:52:08< Espreon> :D
20160728 00:52:16< Espreon> Even though it really, really, REALLY should not be.
20160728 00:52:17< ancestral> My mistake, sorry
20160728 00:52:21< Espreon> That's OK
20160728 00:52:24< gfgtdf> ancestral: without boost
20160728 00:53:48< Espreon> About OE, I probably shouldn't have had him define ang as runic. So: ang = in the Latin alphabet, ang@runic
20160728 00:53:58< celmin> Completeness of translation doesn't necessarily reflect quality of translation though.
20160728 00:55:09< ancestral> gfgtdf: https://paste.ee/p/HEb4F
20160728 00:55:29< celmin> …what.
20160728 00:55:31< ancestral> Which seems about in line with what I’m experiencing when building Wesnoth
20160728 00:55:42< celmin> That doesn't make sense.
20160728 00:55:48< celmin> static_assert shouldn't be a macro.
20160728 00:55:49< ancestral> That was just `clang example.cpp` from the CLI
20160728 00:55:59< celmin> Try clang++
20160728 00:56:08< celmin> Might not matter though since it's a cpp file
20160728 00:56:32< ancestral> Same output
20160728 00:56:51< celmin> That's really bizarre.
20160728 00:57:10< ancestral> Could there be a compiler flag that would treat it somehow differently?
20160728 00:57:30< gfgtdf> ancestral: do you comple with c++11 ?
20160728 00:58:00< ancestral> What did we determine…
20160728 00:58:02< celmin> I would expect that to be default on his compiler version, but I guess it's worth making sure.
20160728 00:58:05 * ancestral opens Xcode
20160728 00:58:32< celmin> I think you'd need --std=c++11
20160728 00:58:41< ancestral> Yes
20160728 00:58:50< ancestral> I have C++11 [-std=c++11]
20160728 00:58:56< celmin> Oh, one hyphen>
20160728 00:58:58< celmin> ^?
20160728 00:59:05< celmin> Well, try passing that on the command-line.
20160728 00:59:27< ancestral> http://uploadpie.com/GswIR
20160728 00:59:43< ancestral> Wow
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20160728 00:59:59< ancestral> Something different
20160728 01:00:24< ancestral> https://paste.ee/p/dI0rf
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20160728 01:02:44< ancestral> I need to run, but I’ll check back if you have any other insight
20160728 01:02:54< ancestral> I appreciate all of your help!
20160728 01:03:17< gfgtdf> ancestral: try this new code: http://pastebin.com/Hu4YBfSy
20160728 01:03:40< ancestral> gfgtdf: Worked perfectly
20160728 01:03:43< ancestral> No errors
20160728 01:03:47< ancestral> No warnings
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20160728 01:11:41< celmin> So what was the point of that, exactly?
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20160728 01:17:24< gfgtdf> celmin: im trying to get simpler code to reproduce this issue
20160728 01:17:49< gfgtdf> celmin: to see whetehr this is an actuakl bug in his libc++ or not
20160728 01:20:21< gfgtdf> ancestral: please try this new code and see if it gives erros http://pastebin.com/Le6A5Qdd
20160728 01:20:54< gfgtdf> ancestral: no wait
20160728 01:21:51< gfgtdf> ancestral: this one: http://pastebin.com/2xGGzn36
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20160728 02:32:11< celmin> mattsc: You were asking about AI stuff a few days ago, and I just happened upon this: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=42613&start=90
20160728 02:32:18< celmin> Oh, wait.
20160728 02:32:25< celmin> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=589715#p589715
20160728 02:32:48< celmin> First link will still work, but second's better since it jumps straight to the relevant post.
20160728 02:33:13< celmin> Dunno if it's a good idea, but something to consider.
20160728 02:33:34< celmin> Unless of course it was already done, as that post is in fact a year old.
20160728 02:33:53< celmin> Still, I can't think of a MicroAI that covers that sort of behaviour.
20160728 02:35:09< mattsc> celmin: hmm, interesting
20160728 02:35:35< mattsc> The targeting Konrad bit is available as a MAI, but the staying out of range probably not in this form.
20160728 02:35:54< mattsc> I’ll think about that a bit and maybe talk to zookeeper about it.  Thanks.
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20160728 02:41:59< celmin> (Even if not suitable specifically for HTTT it might be something interesting to work on.)
20160728 02:42:09< celmin> (I dunno.)
20160728 02:43:16< mattsc> Yeah, it might be.
20160728 02:43:37< mattsc> In concept it’s similar to the protect_unit AI, so I might even be able to work off that.
20160728 02:43:55< mattsc> or messenger_escort, even
20160728 02:43:58< celmin> Huh, it is?
20160728 02:44:17< mattsc> the keeping specific units out of reach of the enemy, yes
20160728 02:47:25< mattsc> celmin: should I mention the syntax change for the recruit_rushers AI fix in the changelog?
20160728 02:47:52< mattsc> I’d think it’s so unlikely for somebody possibly using this directly that I don’t think it’s necessary
20160728 02:48:03< celmin> Hmm, I dunno.
20160728 02:48:22< celmin> You have a point, though.
20160728 02:49:14< mattsc> Actually, the whole refactoring is not in 1.13.4 yet, is it?
20160728 02:49:43< celmin> Huh?
20160728 02:50:15< mattsc> You did the AI refactoring during 1.13.4+dev, right?
20160728 02:50:31< mattsc> In that case, this doesn’t fix a bug in a release and does not need a changelog entry at all.
20160728 02:50:45< celmin> Okay.
20160728 02:51:11< celmin> If you wanted to note the syntax change, that could be a changelog entry, but like you said it's probably unlikely that anyone used it that way,
20160728 02:52:12< mattsc> Well, it’s already covered by your entries though.
20160728 02:52:34< celmin> Oh.
20160728 02:52:40 * celmin shrug
20160728 02:52:46< mattsc> It’s the same thing, just that we had missed this one because it only shows up when you use two sides with that MAI.
20160728 02:53:02< mattsc> … and the test scenario only has one side, the other uses the random recruiting MAI.
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20160728 02:58:39< irker730> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 3f2df87bedd5 / data/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Recruit rushers AIs: adapt syntax to recent AI changes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3f2df87bedd530aa6b1523927ce37598cc007f34
20160728 02:59:03< mattsc> bumbadadabum: ^ that should fix your MAI recruiting problem
20160728 02:59:43< celmin> Does that cover the experimental AI too?
20160728 02:59:57< celmin> Since that uses the rush engine, right?
20160728 02:59:59< mattsc> yes, it does; I tested that
20160728 03:00:02< celmin> Okay.
20160728 03:00:11< mattsc> but the ExpAI did not have a problem beforehand
20160728 03:01:53< mattsc> The changes to two of the files fixed the MAI, but that then broke the ExpAI, which necessitated the change to the third file.
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20160728 03:31:31< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9962 (master - 3f2df87 : mattsc): The build is still failing.
20160728 03:31:31< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/147932755
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20160728 04:27:56< bumbadadabum> mattsc: nice thanks! :)
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20160728 09:55:20< Aginor> so I'm assuming Espreon's problem is being dealt with by someone then ;)
20160728 09:55:29< Aginor> possibly by vultraz 
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20160728 10:37:49< vultraz> Aginor: what is his problem?
20160728 10:38:33< vultraz> -L is not working?
20160728 10:40:51< Aginor> vultraz: read the backlog
20160728 10:41:00 * Aginor sighs
20160728 10:41:02< Aginor> 		//so we must use indexes instead of iterators here.
20160728 10:41:02< Aginor> 		for(auto handler : event_handlers) {
20160728 10:41:02< Aginor> 			handler->draw();
20160728 10:41:03< Aginor> 		}
20160728 10:41:16< Aginor> guess where I've just found a crash :/
20160728 10:41:57< vultraz> draw()?
20160728 10:42:04< Aginor> that loop
20160728 10:42:31< vultraz> what's wrong with it
20160728 10:42:41< Aginor> I'm not quite sure how that gets translated behind the scens
20160728 10:42:44< Aginor> scenes even
20160728 10:43:08< Aginor> but I suspect something nasty happens
20160728 10:43:22< vultraz> you could specify the type manually?
20160728 10:43:32< vultraz> anyway, I don't see Espreon;s issue in the backlog
20160728 10:43:46< Aginor> ok, let me find it for you
20160728 10:44:52< Aginor> https://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2016/07/%23wesnoth-dev.2016-07-28.log
20160728 10:45:17< vultraz> I'm looking at that
20160728 10:45:21< vultraz> But what's the issue :|
20160728 10:45:22< Aginor> hmm
20160728 10:45:30< Aginor> it rolled
20160728 10:45:34< Aginor> https://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2016/07/%23wesnoth-dev.2016-07-27.log
20160728 10:45:51< Aginor> 20160727 23:08:47< gfgtdf> Espreon: unfortulateley it doesnt tell us where to find that formula
20160728 10:45:54< Aginor> 20160727 23:09:27< gfgtdf> Espreon: ok it was borken by https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2826881eefab5ff0d186f111ab93b1bd349f0184
20160728 10:45:57< Aginor> 20160727 23:09:39< gfgtdf> Espreon: it didnt happen to me becasue i dont have that commit yet locally
20160728 10:46:00< Aginor> 20160727 23:10:07< gfgtdf> vultraz: please fix that ^
20160728 10:46:04< Aginor> 20160727 23:16:58< gfgtdf> Espreon, vultraz: actually the current travois buidl fail, all with exact  the same error, so i wonder how this was unnoticed.
20160728 10:46:08< Aginor> 20160727 23:17:56< Espreon> Yes, that fixes it.
20160728 10:46:35< vultraz> huh
20160728 10:46:38< vultraz> I wonder why that breaks it
20160728 10:46:58< Aginor> I suggest we revert it for now
20160728 10:47:00< vultraz> would (height - text_height - 2) be better
20160728 10:47:09< vultraz> actually, is travis still failing?
20160728 10:47:13< vultraz> yes
20160728 10:47:14< Aginor> the log has all the details for reproducing
20160728 10:47:59< vultraz> I'll try changing the formula and see what travis says
20160728 10:48:53-!- irker730 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20160728 10:53:05< lipkab> 'auto handler' is nasty.
20160728 10:53:17< vultraz> why?
20160728 10:53:17< lipkab> Use 'const auto &handler'.
20160728 10:53:45< lipkab> Type inference is sometimes unpredictable.
20160728 10:53:55< vultraz> wait, it doesn't use references otherwise?
20160728 10:54:00< lipkab> No.
20160728 10:54:08< lipkab> (Usually)
20160728 10:54:45< vultraz> oh :|
20160728 10:54:55< lipkab> I told it's nasty :P
20160728 10:55:09< vultraz> I've added several usecases of auto in for loops without &
20160728 10:55:44< lipkab> It's not necessarily a problem, if copying the items is okay.
20160728 10:56:01< vultraz> but aren't references more efficient
20160728 10:56:13< lipkab> Not always.
20160728 10:56:19< vultraz> I could certainly see why a copy would be bad in this case, though
20160728 10:56:37< vultraz> Aginor: listen to lipkab, not me :P
20160728 10:56:47< lipkab> References are pointers in disguise.
20160728 10:57:11< vultraz> yeah, but I don't see how that can't be more efficient than a copy
20160728 10:57:11< lipkab> So references are trivially ineffective when the data is smaller than a pointer's size.
20160728 10:57:21< vultraz> oh
20160728 10:57:22< vultraz> hm
20160728 10:57:34< vultraz> that makes sense
20160728 10:57:42< lipkab> It also adds an extra memory access that can be costly.
20160728 10:58:33< vultraz> Still, I'll have to keep this in mind about auto and loops
20160728 10:59:25< vultraz> where is IRKER
20160728 10:59:38< vultraz> i pushed a commit :
20160728 10:59:40< vultraz> :|
20160728 11:01:50-!- vultraz changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Feature freeze in effect. 1.13.5 scheduled for 7/31 or earlier pending blocker fixes | Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20160728 11:02:07< vultraz> (for the record, the final Yes vote count was 5 more than that : 1349)
20160728 11:23:55-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 11:25:53< Aginor> hmmm
20160728 11:26:02< Aginor> I don't see why this should be crashing
20160728 11:26:52< Aginor> #0  0x00000000010b747f in events::raise_draw_event() ()
20160728 11:26:52< Aginor> #1  0x0000000000ae1301 in controller_base::play_slice(bool) ()
20160728 11:27:04< Aginor> not in pump or anything either
20160728 11:27:24< Aginor> which must mean that event_handlers is either being corrupted or contains stale data
20160728 11:27:33< Aginor> either isn't very palpatable
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20160728 11:37:17< gfgtdf> vultraz: the pouint is that that formula may not return a negative value
20160728 11:38:00< vultraz> hm
20160728 11:38:06< gfgtdf> vultraz: why do you think yout new version is better?
20160728 11:38:14< gfgtdf> vultraz: id seemsto do exactly the same
20160728 11:38:19< gfgtdf> it*
20160728 11:38:21< vultraz> that was a way proposed before
20160728 11:38:27< vultraz> I'm seeing if it's any better
20160728 11:38:42< vultraz> else I'll do max(formula, 0)
20160728 11:38:48< gfgtdf> vultraz: if text_height = 19, and height =20
20160728 11:39:12< gfgtdf> vultraz: they your new code will result in -1, which doesnt make any sense
20160728 11:39:15< Aginor> vultraz: what does a feature freeze mean to you?
20160728 11:39:36< gfgtdf> vultraz: speciall sicne there uis enough space, so there is really no reason why it shodul return -1
20160728 11:39:43< gfgtdf> is*
20160728 11:41:16< vultraz> Aginor: introducing new features. This is a soft freeze, so implementation changes are ok as long as it's not highly extensive refactoring, UNLESS that's necessary to fix a crash or otherwise serious bug
20160728 11:45:00< gfgtdf> vultraz: actuall if the / perofram an integer devision whe applied to integer types (as opposed to beeing casts to an int at the end of the formula) then  (height - text_height - 2) / 2 is an omvovement over ((height - text_height) / 2) - 1
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20160728 11:49:49< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm from looking at the code it seems liek this is exactly hat hapens / does an integer devisions if both types are of type integer.
20160728 11:50:10< vultraz> and that is good?
20160728 11:50:41< gfgtdf> vultraz: i still say it's better to make thing obvious by replacing the first conditional with text_height  + 1 < height
20160728 11:50:46< Aginor> vultraz: I'm not going to argue, do what you want
20160728 11:50:47< gfgtdf> things*
20160728 11:51:16< vultraz> Aginor: ?
20160728 11:51:47< vultraz> "(if(text_height + 1 < height, max((height - (text_height - 2)) / 2, 0), 0))"
20160728 11:51:48< Aginor> I think my crash is caused by the changes I made when I tried to fix the extra semicolon thing in the command bar
20160728 11:51:54< vultraz> how's that look
20160728 11:52:29< Aginor> vultraz: I disagree, strongly, with what you wrote above as I don't think we can reach stability that way, but I'm not going to argue
20160728 11:52:30< vultraz> safer check, and it never goes below 0
20160728 11:52:52< vultraz> Aginor: oh, I see
20160728 11:53:48< vultraz> hm, seems "(if(text_height + 1 < height, max((height - text_height - 2) / 2, 0), 0))" is the right version
20160728 11:55:19< vultraz> gfgtdf: should I commit that ^
20160728 11:59:13< gfgtdf> vultraz: no the point of the first if is already to amke sure it's at least 0, do you can replace that 'if' with a 'max' if you want but having both of them is not needed
20160728 11:59:28< gfgtdf> vultraz: so onyl having  max((height - text_height - 2) / 2, 0)
20160728 11:59:33< vultraz> ok
20160728 11:59:38< vultraz> I'll use that
20160728 11:59:43< vultraz> it's simpler
20160728 12:01:59< vultraz> pushed
20160728 12:02:04-!- irker557 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 12:02:04< irker557> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 1cfad2404f22 / data/gui/macros/_initial.cfg: Simpler and safer GUI2 text positioning formulas https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1cfad2404f22000d5da273cae7fe14b7e209aeb2
20160728 12:02:11< vultraz> oh NOW irker shows up
20160728 12:03:01< vultraz> thanks
20160728 12:13:36< Aginor> celticminstrel: you get splice() back, it fixes a crash ;)
20160728 12:13:48 * vultraz rejoices
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20160728 12:17:46 * vultraz is considering removing the 'The Battle for Wesnoth' text from the loadscreen, and just showing the logo
20160728 12:18:03< vultraz> (and keeping the 'stage text, of course)
20160728 12:18:07< vultraz> s/'//
20160728 12:19:38< vultraz> Aginor: alright if I mark https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?24762 as fixed?
20160728 12:20:14< irker557> wesnoth: Andreas Löf wesnoth:master abc64e62c865 / src/events.cpp: Fix crash by reintroduce splice. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/abc64e62c865b708e6fde628aaa51f74a03577e0
20160728 12:20:25< Aginor> yes
20160728 12:20:54< Aginor> is it in the changelog
20160728 12:21:40< vultraz> yes
20160728 12:22:00< Aginor> excellent
20160728 12:22:14< vultraz> ok, that's 5 blockers marked as fixed :D
20160728 12:22:50< vultraz> as soon as ancestral gets a working build, we release.
20160728 12:23:54< vultraz> SpiritPo will wait for the next release
20160728 12:24:33-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 12:24:43< Aginor> hmm
20160728 12:24:47< Aginor> I just noticed
20160728 12:24:56< Aginor> keyboard scrolling left/right appears inverted
20160728 12:25:07< Aginor> it's a bit... odd.
20160728 12:25:21< vultraz> oh?
20160728 12:25:25< vultraz> let me build master and see
20160728 12:26:54< Aginor> false alarm
20160728 12:27:00< Aginor> it was local changes I'd made
20160728 12:27:28< Aginor> anyway, I'm going to bed
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20160728 12:31:16< vultraz> gj on fixing the crash
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20160728 12:36:53< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9964 (master - 1cfad24 : Charles Dang): The build was fixed.
20160728 12:36:53< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/148015171
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20160728 12:37:48< vultraz> :D
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20160728 12:59:56< vultraz> dammit
20160728 13:00:07< vultraz> it looks like the accelerated speed issue is in master!
20160728 13:00:29-!- molt [~molt@46.161.114.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160728 13:02:43< vultraz> not really a blocker, but..
20160728 13:04:32-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-205-232-20.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 13:04:33< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#9965 (master - abc64e6 : Andreas Löf): The build was fixed.
20160728 13:04:33< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/148018513
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20160728 13:05:40< vultraz> slightly annoying
20160728 13:17:21-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc]
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20160728 13:23:30< irker557> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 772f78b5a02e / data/themes/default.cfg: Fixed some ext clipping with Lato in sidebar (bug #24707) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/772f78b5a02e5b1be8e82ddaf5df88aca0ba4cd3
20160728 13:24:15< vultraz> celticminstrel: do you consider units moving faster that before at a certain accelerated speed a blocker?
20160728 13:27:03< celticminstrel> I thought that issue was only in the boost_trimming branch?
20160728 13:27:29< vultraz> turns out it's in master
20160728 13:27:45< vultraz> since it's in boost_trimmings, it must have been introduced before they diverged
20160728 13:28:00< celticminstrel> How much faster?
20160728 13:28:20-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 13:28:53< vultraz> quite a bit
20160728 13:29:00< vultraz> twice as fast, maybe?
20160728 13:29:35< celticminstrel> What about regular speed?
20160728 13:29:42< vultraz> I'm not sure
20160728 13:29:51< vultraz> It *seems* alright, but I seem to recall it being much slower
20160728 13:32:14< vultraz> Don't really think it's a blocker
20160728 13:32:23< vultraz> and in the past I *did* want faster movement speed..
20160728 13:32:34< vultraz> but a poll seemed to indicate players thought it was ok as it was
20160728 13:32:41< celticminstrel> If the speed is still sane, I don't think it's a blocker, but I do think it's something to consider fixing.
20160728 13:33:56< vultraz> OT for a sec, but do you mind the lua console being fullscreen?
20160728 13:34:22< celticminstrel> I distinctly recall pushing for it before.
20160728 13:34:30< celticminstrel> And attempting and failing to do it myself.
20160728 13:34:47< celticminstrel> But not for this release.
20160728 13:35:03< vultraz> why not?
20160728 13:35:35< celticminstrel> Isn't it a big change that could break something?
20160728 13:35:39< vultraz> it's a trivial change
20160728 13:36:08< vultraz> though I was hoping it would fix https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?24698
20160728 13:36:11< vultraz> seems it does not
20160728 13:38:10< vultraz> I really, really wonder who coded this dialog's c++
20160728 13:38:23< vultraz> why does it uses this weird-ass paradigm
20160728 13:38:39< celticminstrel> You mean MVC?
20160728 13:39:06< vultraz> I guess
20160728 13:39:17< vultraz> It just makes the code confusing, IMO
20160728 13:39:20< celticminstrel> model-view-controller
20160728 13:39:33< celticminstrel> It's not weird at all.
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20160728 13:42:17 * celticminstrel doesn't quite remember if the Lua console used MVC; the inspector certainly does.
20160728 13:42:48< celticminstrel> I think that bug you linked is related to the problem in the GUI2 lobby chat.
20160728 13:43:09< vultraz> eh
20160728 13:43:11< vultraz> hm
20160728 13:45:31< celticminstrel> It's also not a blocker.
20160728 13:45:53< vultraz> obv
20160728 13:46:14< vultraz> I'm just looking for low-hanging bugs I can fix in a few minutes
20160728 13:47:26< vultraz> oh dear, wesnoth randomly stopped working before the titlescreen...
20160728 13:47:28< vultraz> once
20160728 13:55:40< vultraz> t'is a very annoying bug
20160728 13:58:57< vultraz> it SHOULDN'T go back to the top. the code indicates that. but it does
20160728 13:59:25< celticminstrel> Huh?
20160728 14:00:10< vultraz> from the lua inspector code, the scrollbar is set to the bottom position when you do something
20160728 14:00:16< vultraz> but that's not the observed behavior
20160728 14:01:01< celticminstrel> Oh, that.
20160728 14:01:33< celticminstrel> Something about text wrapping messes it up.
20160728 14:01:49< vultraz> I seee
20160728 14:02:25< vultraz> well that's not something simple
20160728 14:03:29< celticminstrel> Well, I don't really understand the cause either, but if I recall correctly, it only happens if one of the lines needs to wrap.
20160728 14:04:08< vultraz> probably a scroll label bug then
20160728 14:04:33< celticminstrel> Probably.
20160728 14:05:50< vultraz> I can still make the dialog fullscreen if you want
20160728 14:06:05< celticminstrel> Nah.
20160728 14:07:00< vultraz> you think that should wait until after the release?
20160728 14:09:13< irker557> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 6c98f52b8230 / data/gui/window/loadscreen.cfg: Don't show BfW text in loadscreen, only logo https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6c98f52b8230a8126f936ee63498f53d78c4fde3
20160728 14:09:40< celticminstrel> ...why...
20160728 14:10:51< vultraz> Aesthetics 
20160728 14:11:08< vultraz> No need to continuously beat players over the head with the name of the game they're playing
20160728 14:11:51< celticminstrel> I wouldn't call it beating them over the head.
20160728 14:14:46< mattsc> zookeeper: celticminstrel pointed me to this post by you: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=589715#p589715
20160728 14:15:18< celticminstrel> So, was there something I was supposed to do on master? Like bugfixes?
20160728 14:15:28< zookeeper> mattsc, hmh, yeah, i had forgotten about that
20160728 14:15:30< mattsc> Something along those lines can already be done with a combination of the simple_attack and goto MAIs.  The goto AI has an “enemy avoidance” setting.
20160728 14:16:03< mattsc> However, it’s probably too simplisitc, and some of the mechanics of the protect_unit or messenger_escort MAIs would probably work better.
20160728 14:16:49< mattsc> celticminstrel: implement an option for [tunnel] to move through when a friendly unit is on the exit hex.  :D
20160728 14:17:13< celticminstrel> I meant before the release.
20160728 14:17:23< mattsc> celticminstrel: ah, then I don’t know
20160728 14:17:59< mattsc> zookeeper: I’ve checked out my last playthrough of HttT S8 and I don’t think that it would make much of a difference for the difficulty in its current version.
20160728 14:18:29< mattsc> My army’s just way too strong by that point that a couple fencers/duelists just are no threat.
20160728 14:18:41< mattsc> But I like the idea, so I think I’ll play around with it a little.
20160728 14:18:48< celticminstrel> I seem to recall the fencer defeating my unit when I got to that point.
20160728 14:18:54< celticminstrel> Or almost, not sure.
20160728 14:19:04< celticminstrel> That would've been on 1.10.
20160728 14:19:27< zookeeper> mattsc, mmkay. i was wondering whether the map is a bit too small for them to have any chance of slipping around the player's units to get to konrad. if they'd avoid combat with everyone else, then you'd basically just need to keep one scout next to konrad to dissuade them all.
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20160728 14:19:44< zookeeper> err... wait, that's not right
20160728 14:19:55< mattsc> It’s early 1.11 in my case, and yes, there was a high risk of the unit discovering the “plot” being taken out, but I had so many leveled units, I didn’t even care.
20160728 14:20:14< mattsc> And Konrad himself could take out those two units by himself without any problem (that’s on medium).
20160728 14:20:37< zookeeper> i meant, you'd just need to keep a few scouts somewhere around konrad, so that no fencer could move into attack range without first moving into the attack range of one of the scouts
20160728 14:21:14< mattsc> zookeeper: yes, that is an issue and would need some testing.  Total avoidance isn’t quite going to work.
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20160728 14:22:15< zookeeper> yeah. maybe instead of total avoidance they should exclusively stick to 70% terrain and only stay out of reach of mages/marksmen
20160728 14:22:50< mattsc> zookeeper: wondering if a special assassin unit with skirmish, ambush and posion would add to the fun  ;)
20160728 14:23:39< zookeeper> hmm
20160728 14:24:11< mattsc> Anyways, I’ll play with this a bit.  I’ll use that scenario as a template, but won’t strictly stick with it.
20160728 14:24:39< mattsc> It might not work in HttT S8, but it could potentially be a fun MAI for other scenarios.
20160728 14:25:35< zookeeper> it doesn't really need to have specifically fencers or anything like that, but the basic idea of having some kind of skirmishers trying to assassinate konrad and being really hard to block and catch might be fun
20160728 14:26:16< mattsc> right
20160728 14:27:03< mattsc> If you have any specific ideas of how you’d like it to work, let me know.  Otherwise I’ll just try out some things.
20160728 14:27:50< mattsc> My current idea is to have those units start with Li’sar from the beginning, and try to circle around to get at Konrad from the back.
20160728 14:28:25< mattsc> I also think I’ll make the test scenario somewhat more resource starved than my situation at that point in HttT was.
20160728 14:28:47< zookeeper> sure. and of course the map can be widened or otherwise modified, if necessary
20160728 14:29:46< mattsc> yeah; that was a concern, although since you play id “sideways”, it might be wide enough.  Circling around the north definitely should be possible.  I might need to replace some water by land in the southeast.
20160728 14:30:18< vultraz> ok, there's a weird math thing going on with sliders..
20160728 14:30:37< mattsc> Anyways, it doesn’t matter to me if this will actually get used in HttT, it sounds like a fun exercise and potentially a nice new MAI.
20160728 14:31:30< mattsc> Funniily, in my ideas list I had a note saying “assassin AI”.  I removed that recently because I did not remember what it meant.  :P
20160728 14:31:50< zookeeper> even if it doesn't end up being a perfect super-intelligent assassin squad, it's probably still better than the silly duelist in a cave
20160728 14:31:59< mattsc> (I am certain that it did not refer to zookeeper’s post, I would have remembered that)
20160728 14:32:17< mattsc> ha, yeah, maybe
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20160728 14:50:38< irker557> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 9f3639d5bb8b / data/gui/widget/slider_minimal.cfg: Tweaked minimal slider magic numbers again so maximum value can be reached (bug  https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9f3639d5bb8b59f43ed4372e15c2ea4eb698140a
20160728 14:50:39< vultraz> Bug, SQUASHED
20160728 14:50:51< vultraz> Or maybe worked around, I'm not sure
20160728 14:55:00< vultraz> It definitely has to do with the side of space
20160728 14:55:41< vultraz> celticminstrel: ya know, loadscreen doesn't work at 200% font scaling
20160728 14:55:54< vultraz> I wonder if we should not max reduce font scaling
20160728 14:56:01< vultraz> with the new, bigger font sizes, 200 is a mess
20160728 14:56:08< mattsc> Hmm, those “unhandled gui event” messages are really annoying in master.
20160728 14:56:42< mattsc> I work a lot with output to the console when doing AI testing, and those completely swamp everything else.
20160728 14:57:34< mattsc> Is there any way to turn those off?  Redirecting to a file doesn’t work, as that also redirects the output I am interested in.
20160728 14:58:05< celticminstrel> Maybe set the relevant log channel to error level?
20160728 14:58:39< mattsc> hmm
20160728 14:58:49< mattsc> I’ll check that out
20160728 14:59:31< celticminstrel> vultraz: By "doesn't work" do you mean "it crashes" or "it looks bad"?
20160728 14:59:36< irker557> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 753814271999 / src/gui/core/event/handler.cpp: Hide GUI2 unhandled event warnings behind a define guard https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/75381427199957a3aeebeaa6bef57e6574f2b512
20160728 14:59:38< vultraz> mattsc: ^
20160728 14:59:41< vultraz> celticminstrel: crashes
20160728 14:59:53< celticminstrel> That's totally not the approach I would've recommended, but whateve.r
20160728 15:00:09< vultraz> I could have just commented it out
20160728 15:00:18< celticminstrel> That's not what I meant.
20160728 15:00:18< mattsc> vultraz: Okay, cool.  Thanks.
20160728 15:00:35< celticminstrel> Anyway, if it crashes, that's a problem.
20160728 15:00:39< celticminstrel> Does it work at 150%?
20160728 15:00:40< mattsc> I could have just commented it out locally too, I just did not know (yet) where it was coming from.
20160728 15:00:55< celticminstrel> Actually I should probably just test it myself.
20160728 15:01:05< vultraz> celticminstrel: It works up to 195
20160728 15:01:07< mattsc> Now that I know, whatever you guys decide is the right thing to do is fine by me.
20160728 15:01:37< vultraz> mattsc: for the record, a simple grep would have shown you its location immediately 
20160728 15:01:39< vultraz> :P
20160728 15:02:00< vultraz> celticminstrel: but as I said above, in the high 100-s, the font becomes wayyyy too big
20160728 15:02:08< vultraz> I recommend capping at 125
20160728 15:02:10< mattsc> vultraz: I am aware of that.  I would have done that next, you just beat me to the punch.  :)
20160728 15:03:11< vultraz> celticminstrel: IIRC we introduced font scaling before bumping the default font size
20160728 15:03:12< vultraz> right?
20160728 15:03:18< mattsc> I actually wasn’t even sure that the Wesnoth code was doing this.  I’ve previously had the external libraries swamp my console with warnings.
20160728 15:03:33< mattsc> anyways, thanks
20160728 15:04:29< vultraz> np
20160728 15:05:12< vultraz> celticminstrel: 125 is the last scaling percentage before horizontal scrollbars start appearing in stuff
20160728 15:05:19< vultraz> celticminstrel: which is why I recommend that as a cap
20160728 15:05:40< celticminstrel> I kind of doubt this.
20160728 15:06:10< vultraz> test it yourself
20160728 15:06:14< celticminstrel> I am.
20160728 15:08:56< vultraz> as you can see, 200 is way too much
20160728 15:09:17< celticminstrel> I can't see anything yet.
20160728 15:09:45< vultraz> hm?
20160728 15:09:55< celticminstrel> In swap hell.
20160728 15:10:03< vultraz> the sadness
20160728 15:10:54< celticminstrel> That was the first time git pull failed for me due to a transport error...
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20160728 15:14:33< celticminstrel> Firefox noticed that something's wrong and is blaming it on a script.
20160728 15:14:58< celticminstrel> I suppose this feature is a good one, but it's annoying that it's triggered by this sort of situation too.
20160728 15:15:34< celticminstrel> Oh... XCode gave up and killed the process?
20160728 15:16:27< celticminstrel> Or did it crash?
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20160728 15:31:50< celticminstrel> Finally.
20160728 15:32:29< celticminstrel> I think I preferred the loading screen with the name.
20160728 15:32:46< celticminstrel> 120% works fine.
20160728 15:33:54< vultraz> up to 125, you get no h scrollbars
20160728 15:33:54< celticminstrel> And preferences have a horizontal scrollbar on the list, so I think what vultraz said about no scrollbars is indeed wrong.
20160728 15:34:05< vultraz> hm
20160728 15:34:09< vultraz> what res?
20160728 15:34:19< celticminstrel> The lowest, of course.
20160728 15:34:31< vultraz> oh
20160728 15:35:00< celticminstrel> At 140% I get a vertical scrollbar in prefs on the far right.
20160728 15:36:01< celticminstrel> I have a horizontal scrollbar at 160%.
20160728 15:36:10< celticminstrel> And setting to 175% crashes.
20160728 15:36:32< celticminstrel> What we really need to do is fix the crash.
20160728 15:36:41< celticminstrel> But that won't happen for this release.
20160728 15:36:42< vultraz> text too big
20160728 15:36:44< vultraz> basically
20160728 15:36:58< vultraz> but the thing still remains that it looks ugly when you get it too big
20160728 15:37:02< celticminstrel> The game should not crash because text is too big.
20160728 15:37:07< vultraz> so I recommend we reduce the max limit
20160728 15:37:15< celticminstrel> Looks like it crashes at 165% too, so I'm going to reduce the max to 160% for now.
20160728 15:37:47< celticminstrel> ...though I could take a step further and make the max depend on the resolution, but that feels like too much work.
20160728 15:38:06< vultraz> let's do a round 150
20160728 15:38:13< celticminstrel> Meh, fine.
20160728 15:38:33< celticminstrel> Now where was this again... preferences.cpp, or the dialog code...
20160728 15:39:25< vultraz> WML, actually, I think
20160728 15:39:28< vultraz> well, partly
20160728 15:39:32< celticminstrel> Oh, was it?
20160728 15:39:42< vultraz> er,..
20160728 15:39:44< vultraz> hm
20160728 15:39:48< vultraz> maybe the stuff you need is int he dialog code
20160728 15:39:50< celticminstrel> Wait, no, it's not an advanced pref.
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20160728 15:48:52< irker557> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master f828ad0eea95 / data/gui/window/preferences/03_display.cfg: Reduce max font scaling to avoid crashes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f828ad0eea95f1b9b54b8d533e42113c7e8702f8
20160728 15:51:05< celticminstrel> That doesn't actually enforce the maximum, mind you.
20160728 15:51:26< irker557> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 84dc059429bb / src/gui/dialogs/ (game_save.cpp message.cpp): Set restore flags on a few dialogs https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/84dc059429bb03d4914175b65a8f42b2c9ae136f
20160728 15:51:29< irker557> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master c18fbf90da8d / src/game_initialization/playcampaign.cpp: Moved some newlines around in the carryover report https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c18fbf90da8de23d18512575e9dfe81e40a3964b
20160728 15:52:11< vultraz> oh are you @*(#&$*(@&#( KIDDING ME
20160728 15:52:22< vultraz> now that slider bug comes back and the scaling only goes to 145
20160728 15:52:24< vultraz> I swear to god
20160728 15:52:39< vultraz> there's some weird-ass bug with the calculations of the points on the sliders
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20160728 15:58:16< vultraz> I curse GUI2 and it's shitty math
20160728 15:58:21-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 16:00:56< vultraz> CURSE IT, I say
20160728 16:01:17< celticminstrel> GUI2 is not math!
20160728 16:01:28< vultraz> it uses math
20160728 16:01:44< celticminstrel> That was meant to draw attention to the fact that you used the wrong its.
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20160728 16:02:11< vultraz> oh
20160728 16:02:14< vultraz> blah
20160728 16:02:28-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 16:03:06< vultraz> I think a proper fix is making scrollbars point-independent (ie, smooth-scrolling)
20160728 16:03:10-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc]
20160728 16:03:12< vultraz> then making sliders point-dependent
20160728 16:03:27< vultraz> (ie, moving point implementations to sliders and making manual drag scrolling lock onto them)
20160728 16:06:11< celticminstrel> Why did I download Founding of Borstep, I wonder...
20160728 16:06:28< vultraz> to consider it for mainlining
20160728 16:06:38< celticminstrel> Ah, that would make sense...
20160728 16:06:52< celticminstrel> The OoA intro picture is kind of awesome.
20160728 16:07:07< celticminstrel> ...so OoA needs story text, right?
20160728 16:08:21< celticminstrel> What's with the (presumably fake) foreign language...
20160728 16:09:20< Kwandulin> It's google translator turkish and removed in the next update
20160728 16:09:46< Kwandulin> I think it's a good idea to give you guys the update already, let me see
20160728 16:10:10< celticminstrel> Oh.
20160728 16:10:34< celticminstrel> Turkish, good choice... except for the fact that using a real language isn't a good choice in something that (presumably) needs to be translated into that language.
20160728 16:10:51< celticminstrel> The high king unit looks kinda ridiculous.
20160728 16:10:55< Kwandulin> Mhh, you're certainly right
20160728 16:11:17< Kwandulin> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=598314#p598314 that's the new sprite
20160728 16:11:17< celticminstrel> Should I wait a few minutes or something?
20160728 16:11:57< Kwandulin> Mhh, I see I can't prepare the update for you right now due to some terrain changes from 1.13.4-> 1.13.5 and it'd like to test that myself first
20160728 16:12:13< celticminstrel> Oh... I'm playing on 1.12.
20160728 16:12:44< Kwandulin> Yes that's still possible with v0.8 (or whatever it is)
20160728 16:16:37< celticminstrel> So there won't be an update for 1.12.
20160728 16:17:20< Kwandulin> Right
20160728 16:19:04< celticminstrel> Is there a changelog or something?
20160728 16:21:48< Kwandulin> Yes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97230181/Wesnoth/changelog.cfg
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20160728 16:32:36< celticminstrel> ...why .cfg?
20160728 16:33:35< Kwandulin> .cfg files get fancy in my notepad++
20160728 16:34:37< vultraz> you should use .md or something
20160728 16:34:55< vultraz> also I use n++ and I see no special formatting in .cfg files
20160728 16:35:26< celticminstrel> You need to install an addon or whatever.
20160728 16:35:43< vultraz> ooo
20160728 16:35:54< Kwandulin> Okay, celticminstrel and anyone who is interested: here is the updated version https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97230181/Wesnoth/Oath_of_Allegiance_devs.zip I couldn't test it for 1.13.5, so I hope it works
20160728 16:36:03< celticminstrel> :/
20160728 16:37:18< Kwandulin> vultraz: i customized it
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20160728 16:39:45< vultraz> huh
20160728 16:39:49< vultraz> that's surprisingly simple
20160728 16:40:30-!- horrowind [~Icedove@2a02:810a:83c0:404:21b:fcff:fee3:c3ff] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 16:40:38< vultraz> doesn't work that well with FFL and WML, though
20160728 16:40:46< vultraz> at least not bash's formatting
20160728 16:40:50< vultraz> which Ijust set mine to use
20160728 16:42:18< celticminstrel> Why would you use bash formatting. Use WML formatting.
20160728 16:42:30< vultraz> I don't have that
20160728 16:42:34< celticminstrel> Then make it.
20160728 16:42:37< celticminstrel> Or find it.
20160728 16:44:09< vultraz> does c++ have a combination of min and max that puts the value between two specified values?
20160728 16:44:22< celticminstrel> Nope, just use both min and max.
20160728 16:45:24< vultraz> std::max(std:min(scale, 140), 80)
20160728 16:45:28< vultraz> like that?
20160728 16:45:50< celticminstrel> Are you changing the font scaling in preferences.cpp?
20160728 16:45:57< vultraz> er, 150*
20160728 16:46:08< vultraz> and yes, enforcing min/max scaling values
20160728 16:46:12< celticminstrel> I was about to say... but yes, pretty sure that's the right syntax.
20160728 16:49:48 * vultraz checks if static values in a namespace can be accessed without a class member value
20160728 16:50:00< vultraz> apparently not
20160728 16:50:10< vultraz> unless within that file
20160728 16:51:00< celticminstrel> What?
20160728 16:51:11< celticminstrel> The question doesn't make sense.
20160728 16:52:26< vultraz> I was checking if a static variable could be accessed from any place outside that file, if it had a namespace qualifier
20160728 16:52:51< celticminstrel> Well, "static variable" could mean three completely different things.
20160728 16:53:23< vultraz> a variable qualified with 'static'
20160728 16:53:50< celticminstrel> Like I said, it can mean three very different things.
20160728 16:54:21< celticminstrel> Why does it tell you that the elvish riders will appear at turn 10?
20160728 16:55:41< celticminstrel> Also, the preceding message makes it sound like an earthquake. Misleading.
20160728 16:56:22< Kwandulin> "At turn 8 elvish riders will appear at the marked field." seems right to me
20160728 16:56:24< vultraz> celticminstrel: another random question: is it acceptable to use a struct as a place to group const variables?
20160728 16:56:42< celticminstrel> The turn number isn't the point, it's that it's announced at all.
20160728 16:57:06< celticminstrel> vultraz: That's a bit weird. I'd use a namespace instead.
20160728 16:57:10< Kwandulin> To prevent a tomato surprise
20160728 16:57:13< celticminstrel> A named namespace, if you want.
20160728 16:57:53-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 16:58:09< celticminstrel> I don't think whether it's announced halfway through changes whether it's a tomato surprise? I'm no good at identifying tomato surprises though, so...
20160728 16:59:11< Kwandulin> There's a mine in the north and players might want to get there and get trapped by the riders then
20160728 16:59:36< celticminstrel> ...mine?
20160728 17:00:02-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160728 17:00:13< Kwandulin> the tunnel
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20160728 17:01:58< celticminstrel> Are we talking about the same scenario?
20160728 17:02:49< celticminstrel> Should I bother continuing on 1.12?
20160728 17:02:55< celticminstrel> I just lost.
20160728 17:03:11< celticminstrel> Oh, there's no difficulty levels. I jsut realized this.
20160728 17:03:43-!- Kwandulin_2 [~Miranda@p200300760F60620329DFFC740039B61C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 17:03:55< Kwandulin_2> I just gave you the link to the new version
20160728 17:04:06 * celticminstrel wonders what all those removed things in Lost in the Deserts were.
20160728 17:04:13< celticminstrel> I thought you said that requires 1.13.
20160728 17:04:29< Kwandulin_2> You can play on master I guess
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20160728 17:05:38< celticminstrel> So I shouldn't bother continuing on 1.13?
20160728 17:05:41< celticminstrel> ^1.12
20160728 17:05:46< Kwandulin_2> rght
20160728 17:05:53 * celticminstrel sigh
20160728 17:06:27< celticminstrel> I wanted to reserve 1.13 for dev work and 1.12 for actually playing.
20160728 17:09:29< celticminstrel> I guess I'll download it in case I feel like it later...
20160728 17:09:29< vultraz> Kwandulin_2: might I suggest using the 1.13 font for the nice logo?
20160728 17:09:36< vultraz> Kwandulin_2: er, 1.13 logo font
20160728 17:09:46< celticminstrel> Huh?
20160728 17:09:59< Kwandulin_2> vultraz: sure, what's the 1.13 font called?
20160728 17:10:22< vultraz> Oldania
20160728 17:10:40< celticminstrel> Next thing you know we'll be using Newania.
20160728 17:10:54< vultraz> I might also suggest just making it say "Oath of Allegiance" and remove the BfW part
20160728 17:11:01< celticminstrel> Huh?
20160728 17:11:10< celticminstrel> What are we even talking about though?
20160728 17:11:25< vultraz> celticminstrel: the image in the campaign's entry..?
20160728 17:12:08< Kwandulin_2> vultraz: okay
20160728 17:12:08< celticminstrel> The one with two people in silhouette? 
20160728 17:12:21< vultraz> yes
20160728 17:17:15< celticminstrel> Why does the troll folder have a troll subdirectory.
20160728 17:17:52-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 17:17:54< vultraz> remind me to add a clamp() utility function
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20160728 17:21:11< celticminstrel> I don't think it's important enough to remind you?
20160728 17:21:24< vultraz> I'll probably do it after this anyway
20160728 17:23:52< celticminstrel> That's not really the sort of thing that should be done right before a release.
20160728 17:23:58< vultraz> celticminstrel: is 'return' ignored with inline functions?
20160728 17:24:10< celticminstrel> Why would return be ignored with inline functions?
20160728 17:24:58< vultraz> blah, I'll show you what I mean in a few minutes
20160728 17:32:15< vultraz> blah, t'is not working
20160728 17:34:03< vultraz> or is it?
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20160728 17:35:12< vultraz> celticminstrel: ok, this is what I was doing https://github.com/Vultraz/wesnoth/commit/b795c4a6b4b442300201e477e31592c8aa4c5015
20160728 17:36:11< vultraz> obv having those as functions is a bit unnecessary, but how might I make it so I can still keep the values out of the header, and is inline useful here at all
20160728 17:37:09< JyrkiVesterinen> For what it's forth, there is a clamp implementation in attack_prediction.cpp: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/c18fbf90da8de23d18512575e9dfe81e40a3964b/src/attack_prediction.cpp#L99-L110
20160728 17:37:18< celticminstrel> ...forth?
20160728 17:37:21< JyrkiVesterinen> (I'm quite familiar with that file at this point.)
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20160728 17:37:34< JyrkiVesterinen> Oh. Meant "worth".
20160728 17:37:42< celticminstrel> Are the adjacent on your keyboard?
20160728 17:38:08< JyrkiVesterinen> No, they're not. I just randomly think of a wrong word.
20160728 17:38:16< JyrkiVesterinen> (I'm not a native English speaker.)
20160728 17:38:20< vultraz> ah, nice
20160728 17:38:25< celticminstrel> Ah.
20160728 17:38:45< celticminstrel> vultraz: Refactoring of any kind, no matter how small, shouldn't really be done at this stage.
20160728 17:40:01< gfgtdf> vultraz: there is no real gain from manually inling thoesw function, note that in release builds, some compiler do perform link-time inling optimisation.
20160728 17:40:29< celticminstrel> Anyway, I don't see the inlining you're talking about.
20160728 17:40:53< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: what do you mean by 'this stage' ?
20160728 17:41:09< celticminstrel> With an impending release coming up.
20160728 17:41:25< vultraz> celticminstrel: I was wondering if those functions could be inlined
20160728 17:41:33< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: ok
20160728 17:42:00< JyrkiVesterinen> vultraz: So, you're trying to make the values globally accessible but only define them in a .cpp file.
20160728 17:42:07< celticminstrel> vultraz: Which functions?
20160728 17:42:10< vultraz> basically
20160728 17:42:21< JyrkiVesterinen> It can be done without making them functions. You can declare them as "extern" in the header.
20160728 17:42:30< celticminstrel> You don't even need to extern them.
20160728 17:42:36< celticminstrel> Because they're const.
20160728 17:42:36< JyrkiVesterinen> E.g. extern const int min_window_width;
20160728 17:42:49< JyrkiVesterinen> And the definition in the .cpp file.
20160728 17:42:51< celticminstrel> Const globals are implicitly static, as I recall.
20160728 17:43:13< celticminstrel> So you can just put const int min_window_width = 800; in the hpp file.
20160728 17:43:33< celticminstrel> Though if you want to be able to rebuild just the one file if the value changes, JyrkiVesterinen's way should work too.
20160728 17:45:07< vultraz> what do you recommend I call the namespace
20160728 17:45:33< celticminstrel> Why do you want a namespace at all?
20160728 17:45:48< vultraz> eh...
20160728 17:45:51< vultraz> I guess I don't need one
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20160728 17:53:28< vultraz> celticminstrel: out of curiosity, which do you think would be more efficient for clamp: an implementation like linked above, or an inline version using min/max?
20160728 17:53:41< vultraz> like the one*
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20160728 17:55:28< celticminstrel> I'm confused. Aren't you asking me to compare oranges and oranges?
20160728 17:59:33< vultraz> the linked one isn't inline and uses if + return statements. I was wondering if it's any more efficient to have it inline and use max(min(val, max_val), min_val)
20160728 17:59:56< celticminstrel> Oh wait, you mean the one JyrkiVesterinen linked.
20160728 18:00:01< vultraz> yes
20160728 18:00:11< celticminstrel> I think they're probably equally efficient.
20160728 18:00:40< celticminstrel> The one he linked is probably inlined by the compiler.
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20160728 18:04:12< gfgtdf> vultraz: well in theory the clamp(min, val, max) { retunr val < min ? min : min(val, max); } uses just 1 comparision in case val < min, while the use max(min(val, max), min) uses always 2 comparisions.
20160728 18:04:41< vultraz> hm
20160728 18:04:45< vultraz> will keep in mind
20160728 18:04:50< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: I think you're wrong there. Doesn't the min call implicitly mean a second comparison?
20160728 18:05:10< celticminstrel> Oh, wait, I see what you mean.
20160728 18:05:32< celticminstrel> I don't think reducing by one comparison would make a difference unless it's being called hundreds of times per second, though.
20160728 18:06:15< vultraz> celticminstrel: new commit https://github.com/Vultraz/wesnoth/commit/16c1460622fed83646f35ab20eb555d2c0e50e8d
20160728 18:06:16< celticminstrel> Or thousands or even millions (if that's possible?), actually.
20160728 18:06:43< vultraz> I think this is sufficiently inoffensive 
20160728 18:07:32< celticminstrel> vultraz: Did you see the comments on the old commit?
20160728 18:07:44< vultraz> i saw both, yes
20160728 18:07:53< celticminstrel> Both? I think there were three.
20160728 18:08:09< celticminstrel> Anywaym if Aginor approves this, then feel free to merge it.
20160728 18:08:12-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20160728 18:08:12< celticminstrel> ^Anyway,
20160728 18:09:02< vultraz> oh, good point
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20160728 18:13:26< vultraz> blah, I cannot commit anything else because this is on my master branch :|
20160728 18:14:02< celticminstrel> That's easy to fix.
20160728 18:14:36< celticminstrel> You could move it to a new branch, or push HEAD^ instead of the implicit HEAD.
20160728 18:14:53< celticminstrel> (After rebasing so that the commit you don't want to push is the last commit.)
20160728 18:15:07< celticminstrel> The syntax for that is git push origin HEAD^:master
20160728 18:15:17< celticminstrel> HEAD^ can in fact be replaced with any commit.
20160728 18:15:18< vultraz> Aginor: apparently you need to approve this for commit https://github.com/Vultraz/wesnoth/commit/534b38cd701e4aee2d2cedf7f19404e2baf65100
20160728 18:15:21< vultraz> pish*
20160728 18:15:23< vultraz> PUSH*
20160728 18:18:07-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20160728 18:20:43< JyrkiVesterinen> I gave up on asynchronous damage calculation: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=44391
20160728 18:21:55< irker557> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 1dafd22365e3 / data/themes/default.cfg: Further text clipping fixes (bug #24707) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1dafd22365e3b93008f517829af20a14e2cca3bd
20160728 18:25:40< vultraz> celticminstrel: any idea if this is a simple fix https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?24887
20160728 18:25:51< vultraz> has*
20160728 18:29:36-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 18:31:06< celmin> Seems like it could be, but I dunno
20160728 18:32:02-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: http://www.kvirc.net/ 4.9.1 Aria]
20160728 18:33:14< irker557> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master b87d8e5ede06 / src/ (16 files in 9 dirs): explicitly use std::placeholders for the second std::bind parameter https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b87d8e5ede060e10b5927b8721933c05d1295c0d
20160728 18:33:21< gfgtdf> ancestral: try that ^
20160728 18:33:34< ancestral> OK
20160728 18:34:31< celmin> We explicitly decided not to do that when we switched to std::bind.
20160728 18:35:00< celmin> So why are you suddenly ignoring that decision?
20160728 18:35:01< gfgtdf> celmin: well feel free to revert and use a better solution after 1.12.5
20160728 18:35:10< celmin> I probably will.
20160728 18:35:58< gfgtdf> 1.13.5 i meant ofc.
20160728 18:36:08< celmin> But you could've at least used a namespace alias to make it shorter.
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20160728 18:37:36< celmin> (Anyway, wasn't the problem in Boost 1.60?)
20160728 18:37:50< gfgtdf> celmin: no ia hvae boost 1.60 any ti compiles well
20160728 18:37:53< gfgtdf> and it*
20160728 18:38:11< celmin> But you're using MSVC, so that's kinda irrelevant.
20160728 18:38:53< celmin> vultraz couldn't compile with Boost 1.60 either, so I think that means it is indeed a problem in Boost.
20160728 18:39:02< celmin> Admittely, he's not using libc++ either.
20160728 18:39:11< celmin> Nor clang.
20160728 18:39:23< gfgtdf> celmin: do you have a erro rport from vultraz? it coudl be coimpletey differnt issue
20160728 18:39:29< gfgtdf> report*
20160728 18:39:42< celmin> Why would I have that? Ask him.
20160728 18:40:00< vultraz> gfgtdf: every single damn time I try tobuild with 1.60 I get six undefined reference errors in the addon code having to do with boost::system
20160728 18:40:07< gfgtdf> celmin: mybe  have you one when heold you that he has issue wit hboost 1.60
20160728 18:40:23< celmin> I don't understand that sentence.
20160728 18:40:29< gfgtdf> vultraz: y this indeed somels lieka unrelated siiue
20160728 18:40:34< gfgtdf> sounds*
20160728 18:40:42< celmin> It does, yeah.
20160728 18:40:51< vultraz> but it's very annoying
20160728 18:40:56< vultraz> because it doesn't make any sense
20160728 18:41:03< celmin> Actually, it sounds like you've simply forgotten to link libboost_system...
20160728 18:41:29< vultraz> I did not
20160728 18:42:04< gfgtdf> vultraz: you have the exact error somehere ?
20160728 18:42:14< vultraz> not right now
20160728 18:43:34< gfgtdf> vultraz: whihc boost version do you use currently ?
20160728 18:43:42< vultraz> 1.58
20160728 18:44:06< gfgtdf> vultraz: does the issue appear whe you build boost itself or when you buidl wesnoth with that boost version ?
20160728 18:44:14< vultraz> latter
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20160728 18:46:01< gfgtdf> vultraz: how do you buidl boost? with bjam.exe and b2.exe ?
20160728 18:46:54< vultraz> uhh... latter not former
20160728 18:51:32< vultraz> aquelia had instructions on his gh page
20160728 18:51:36< vultraz> that i followed
20160728 18:55:44< gfgtdf> vultraz: which library files are in your boost lib directly ?
20160728 18:55:53< vultraz> what do you mean
20160728 18:56:38< gfgtdf> vultraz: are you 100% sure that you incide the right boost system library file ?
20160728 18:56:47< vultraz> i built directly with the source download
20160728 18:57:33< gfgtdf> vultraz: in wesnoth i meant
20160728 18:57:41< gfgtdf> ancestral: did you try buildin it ?
20160728 18:58:40< vultraz> I was linking against the boost system lib from the build if that's what you mean
20160728 19:00:39< vultraz> and I tried building boost multiple times
20160728 19:02:06< vultraz> i guess i can try 1.61
20160728 19:02:27< vultraz> if i could remember the commands
20160728 19:05:09-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 19:06:00< gfgtdf> vultraz: i thought you were using the ommand form aquelias gh page ?
20160728 19:06:16< wedge009> vultraz: Are you still using codeblocks? I also followed aquileia's build instructions but I'm using VC14.
20160728 19:06:54-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e32b7c0.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 47.0/20160604131506]]
20160728 19:07:23< celmin> What are these Wings of Victory and The Dark Hordes?
20160728 19:07:29< vultraz> wedge009: yes, cb
20160728 19:07:39< vultraz> gfgtdf: well I lost the link to the page :P
20160728 19:08:12-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 19:08:21< wedge009> This one? https://github.com/aquileia/external
20160728 19:08:32< vultraz> ahh thanks
20160728 19:08:48 * vultraz bookmarks
20160728 19:09:05< vultraz> btw, these are the 1.60  libs I had trouble building wesnoth with https://www.dropbox.com/s/5diqa9p8bvyn7is/lib.7z?dl=0
20160728 19:09:09< vultraz> if anyone wants to test them
20160728 19:09:15< vultraz> maybe I screwed up building with boost
20160728 19:09:19< vultraz> or maybe 1.60 just has problems
20160728 19:09:30< celmin> Is there anyone here who could test them?
20160728 19:09:41< vultraz> wedge009?
20160728 19:09:48< vultraz> oh wait
20160728 19:09:50< celmin> It would have to be someone who compiles using MinGW, so no, not wedge009.
20160728 19:09:55< vultraz> yeah
20160728 19:09:58< vultraz> was gonna say that
20160728 19:09:59< vultraz> true..
20160728 19:10:01< vultraz> :/
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20160728 20:02:25< lipkab> Wow, who made the hotkeys menu icon? It's cute!
20160728 20:02:48< celmin> I dunno, probably zookeeper?
20160728 20:03:55 * lipkab awards zookeeper with a virtual pancake for his accomplishment
20160728 20:04:48< zookeeper> i did, although i think someone edited it a bit afterwards
20160728 20:04:56< zookeeper> i also prefer pancakes to the traditional cookies!
20160728 20:05:58< lipkab> Yay! Down with the cookie-huggers!
20160728 20:06:07 * celmin hugs all of the cookies.
20160728 20:06:12< celmin> More for me, then. \o/
20160728 20:12:17-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV]
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20160728 20:16:02< vultraz> lipkab: i edited it with the new rogue sprite that's still not in use
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20160728 20:16:11< vultraz> but zookeeper made it originally
20160728 20:19:18< lipkab> vultraz: You deserve a half pancake as well.
20160728 20:22:28< gfgtdf> vultraz: you sure it was zookeeper i actually thought it was fabi.
20160728 20:23:26< gfgtdf> vultraz: wait i thought you were talking about the blue icons asociated with each hotkey, nevermind hen
20160728 20:23:29< gfgtdf> then*
20160728 20:25:07< ancestral> gfgtdf: Building in a moment
20160728 20:31:27< ancestral> gfgtdf: Same error, but only one instance instead of four
20160728 20:31:47< gfgtdf> ancestral: hmm which files gives you teh error?
20160728 20:32:00< ancestral> Seems to be related to ai/composite/ao.cpp:82
20160728 20:32:04< ancestral> *ai.cpp:82
20160728 20:32:35< ancestral> But before I would get 4 every time, including this one, and a few others in other files
20160728 20:32:49< vultraz> gfgtdf: those were lordbob
20160728 20:33:03< gfgtdf> ancestral: hmm can you give me the exact erro message ?
20160728 20:33:35< vultraz> "std::string str = std::string();"
20160728 20:33:41< vultraz> why.. would you do this
20160728 20:35:16< gfgtdf> ancestral: also you you pleasew try to buidl the file i posted yesterday http://pastebin.com/2xGGzn36 ?
20160728 20:36:41< ancestral> That file builds successfully
20160728 20:37:26< ancestral> gfgtdf: https://paste.ee/p/TbyV8
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20160728 20:42:25< vultraz> huh
20160728 20:42:47< vultraz> I dunno if sgettext is supposed to be replaced with dsgettext
20160728 20:43:15< vultraz> then again spiritpo probably touches this so let's just leave that translation bug alone for this release
20160728 20:44:07< gfgtdf> vultraz: maybe teh textdaomain was accidently ahncgd while moving that function around
20160728 20:44:13< gfgtdf> changed*
20160728 20:46:38< gfgtdf> ancestral: is that the onyl error at the porject or does the compiler just stop there and doesn try to compile the other cases?
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20160728 20:48:31< gfgtdf> s/cases/files
20160728 20:52:49< gfgtdf> actuall i wonder why that function passes '*this' to bind, all the other cases of bind like goun in the gui2 code just pass 'this' to bind
20160728 20:52:55< gfgtdf> i wonder wheterh this is intentional or not
20160728 20:53:22< vultraz> likely not
20160728 20:54:14< ancestral> Hmm
20160728 20:54:23< ancestral> I think it stops there
20160728 20:54:36< ancestral> But previously, I had that spot have 4 errors, now it’s just 1
20160728 20:54:48< gfgtdf> i'd exacpt that passing *this makes a copy of that the ai_composite object. so it might be an intentional change in behaviour change
20160728 20:55:05< gfgtdf> but i really dont knwo anything about that code, someone who does shoudl take a look at that
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20160728 20:56:13< ancestral> gfgtdf: Trying std::placeholders::_1 and std::placeholders::_2 and std::placeholders::_3 in ai.cpp
20160728 20:56:38< ancestral> Okay, now I get the four errors from before
20160728 20:57:23< ancestral> gfgtdf: https://paste.ee/p/oiROY
20160728 20:58:29< ancestral> Lines 2, 20, 38 58
20160728 20:58:40< ancestral> (where each error starts)
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20160728 21:04:21< gfgtdf> ancestral: i mena i coudl mostlikeley easiyl just replcae it with std::placeholder on those 4 too, but then there might just new new errors
20160728 21:04:54< ancestral> gfgtdf: Correct, there would be, these ones: https://paste.ee/p/oiROY
20160728 21:05:19< vultraz> can't you just lambda the one that's giving you problems
20160728 21:06:31< gfgtdf> ancestral: he ones in button.cpp mostlikely come from src/gui/core/register_widget.hpp (which exports a macro that is used in buttons.cpp)
20160728 21:06:57< ancestral> vultraz: We tried this with celticminstrel’s help
20160728 21:07:08< ancestral> And still got errors
20160728 21:07:20 * vultraz groans
20160728 21:07:23< gfgtdf> vultraz: for 1.13.5 we shoudl go with the simplest solution
20160728 21:07:27< ancestral> Different errors, perhaps
20160728 21:07:36< ancestral> Something abot expanding macros
20160728 21:07:42 * vultraz groans some more
20160728 21:07:58< ancestral> Can anyone tell me, what does STATIC_BOOST_ASSERT do?
20160728 21:08:11< vultraz> I have absolutely no idea
20160728 21:08:13< ancestral> What is the purpose behind it
20160728 21:08:16< gfgtdf> vultraz: it gives an erro if the cundition is not met
20160728 21:08:20< gfgtdf> ancestral: ^
20160728 21:08:26< ancestral> Okay so that happens
20160728 21:08:30< ancestral> What would that look like in the game?
20160728 21:08:44< gfgtdf> ancestral: you can try to replace it with a std::ebnable_if in that boost header for that ctor
20160728 21:08:59< ancestral> std:enable_if ?
20160728 21:09:10< ancestral> ctor?
20160728 21:09:17< gfgtdf> ancestral: yes
20160728 21:09:18< ancestral> actor?
20160728 21:09:19< gfgtdf> constructor
20160728 21:10:01< gfgtdf> its an abbreviation not a typo :)
20160728 21:12:54< vultraz> gfgtdf: I'm building boost 1.61 and I'll try to see if wesnoth builds with it
20160728 21:18:32< gfgtdf> ancestral: you coudl try to replace https://paste.ee/
20160728 21:18:35< gfgtdf> n boost arg
20160728 21:19:09< gfgtdf> ancestral: https://paste.ee/r/cszv1
20160728 21:19:10< ancestral> gfgtdf: Sorry, which constructor do I replace
20160728 21:19:18< ancestral> Okay
20160728 21:19:33< gfgtdf> ancestral: and remove the static assert then
20160728 21:19:47< gfgtdf> ancestral: ahh sry wrong paste
20160728 21:19:54< gfgtdf> ancestral: wait
20160728 21:20:42< gfgtdf> ancestral: this one: https://paste.ee/p/nSNmL
20160728 21:21:35< ancestral> That would be changing the library
20160728 21:21:42< ancestral> I’m trying it though
20160728 21:22:19< ancestral> (I would assume it’s possible to make an override somewhere over the library template/function?)
20160728 21:22:38< ancestral> That would be a short-term fix, maybe?
20160728 21:23:01< gfgtdf> ancestral: didn't you suggest changing the library (removng the static assert)? 
20160728 21:23:47< ancestral> Well, I was asking about what the fallout would be
20160728 21:23:50< ancestral> Of doing such a thing
20160728 21:23:59< ancestral> gfgtdf: Building just fine with your fix
20160728 21:24:03< ancestral> to the library
20160728 21:28:25< gfgtdf> ancestral: i am not 100% whether this fix has not undesired side effects, you can file pr with thif fix at https://github.com/boostorg/bind, alterantiveleey you can file a bugreporot at boost or at libc++ to get more opinion.
20160728 21:29:30< gfgtdf> ancestral: sureley this is not a good fix for our issue (wesnoth doesnt build on some build chains) sicne everyone has to do thismanually
20160728 21:30:27< gfgtdf> ancestral: for our issue we coudl eigher find all bad std::bind cases and replace them manuall with std::placeholders there, or use the BOOST_BIND_NO_PLACEHOLDERS  thing
20160728 21:31:10< gfgtdf> ancestral: i actuall am against using BOOST_BIND_NO_PLACEHOLDERS in this releasesince it  has a serious change of braking other build environments.
20160728 21:31:58< gfgtdf> ancestral: FORfor the 1.13.5 release i meant, we can sure try it later
20160728 21:32:14< vultraz> aahahahhahaha
20160728 21:32:20< vultraz> now I'm getting the errors ancestral is getting
20160728 21:32:39< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm really?
20160728 21:32:52< ancestral> Thank god I’m not the only one :)
20160728 21:33:03< gfgtdf> vultraz: when building boost or wesnoth ?
20160728 21:33:03< ancestral> gfgtdf: What boost do you have?
20160728 21:33:08< vultraz> http://pastebin.com/Y1ZuPjPQ
20160728 21:33:10< vultraz> wesnoth
20160728 21:33:10< gfgtdf> ancestral:  1.60
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20160728 21:34:33< gfgtdf> vultraz: which boost are you reovusly using and whcih are you now suning?
20160728 21:34:41< vultraz> previous was 1.58
20160728 21:34:49< vultraz> now I just build and am trying 1.61
20160728 21:36:54< gfgtdf> vultraz: and this issue did alos appear in boost 1.60 ?
20160728 21:37:41< vultraz> gfgtdf: it did not, but I didn't build with 1.60 after the placeholder change
20160728 21:37:53< vultraz> that is, after we converted to std::bind
20160728 21:38:37< gfgtdf> vultraz: which cimpiler version are you using ?
20160728 21:38:49< vultraz> tdm gcc 5.1.0 
20160728 21:38:58< gfgtdf> vultraz: do you compiler in c++14 mode ?
20160728 21:39:02< gfgtdf> compile*
20160728 21:39:06< vultraz> no, c++11
20160728 21:39:36< gfgtdf> vultraz: you you ty c++14 mode ?
20160728 21:39:48< vultraz> are you asking me to?
20160728 21:40:36 * vultraz tries
20160728 21:42:22< gfgtdf> vultraz: what you coudl try is to revert this patch https://github.com/boostorg/bind/commit/db56733e4ed2125944b89e01cf36a9e451dd36f5 sicne thast one onyl reated path in boost arg that ia see since boost 1.55
20160728 21:44:43< gfgtdf> ancestral: i have abetter idea: hst remove the BOOST_CONSTEXPR in taht constructor could be enough
20160728 21:44:47< gfgtdf> just*
20160728 21:45:30< ancestral> If that’s better than what you told me to do, sure
20160728 21:50:40-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.]
20160728 21:50:44< ancestral> So I did remove BOOST_CONSTEXPR to make `template< class T > arg( T const & /* t */ ) { BOOST_STATIC_ASSERT( I == is_placeholder<T>::value ); }` 
20160728 21:50:57< ancestral> and it looks like it’s building
20160728 21:52:32< vultraz> gfgtdf: using c++14 mode doesn't fix it
20160728 21:53:52< vultraz> looks like your suggestion with removing BOOST_CONSTEXPR is tho
20160728 21:53:59< vultraz> of*
20160728 21:54:10< gfgtdf> ?
20160728 21:54:19< SigurdFD> loonycyborg: any thoughts on my latest comment on pr616?
20160728 21:54:58< gfgtdf> vultraz: 'tho' ?
20160728 21:55:05< vultraz> gfgtdf: though 
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20160728 21:59:56< ancestral> gfgtdf: Removing BOOST_CONSTEXPR worked
20160728 22:00:05-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160728 22:03:44< vultraz> gfgtdf: yeah can confirm removing BOOST_CONSTEXPR works
20160728 22:03:54< gfgtdf> vultraz: hm if it fais for you too this seems to be a problem in boost then we shoudl fix a bugeprort somehere
20160728 22:04:05< vultraz> gfgtdf: but I'm back to those bloody undefined reference error
20160728 22:04:36< vultraz> .objs-release\src\addon\client.o:client.cpp|| undefined reference to `boost::system::system_category()'|
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20160728 22:05:14< vultraz> gfgtdf: I could never find the fix for those ^
20160728 22:05:25< gfgtdf> vultraz: what is your linker comand?
20160728 22:05:46< gfgtdf> vultraz: th commanline how your ide starts the linker i mean
20160728 22:06:33< vultraz> http://pastebin.com/Nq1ShFvt
20160728 22:06:55< vultraz> "C:/TDM-GCC-32/bin/../lib/gcc/mingw32/5.1.0/../../../../mingw32/bin/ld.exe: .objs-release\src\addon\client.o: bad reloc address 0xd0 in section `.rdata'" might be useful but idk what it means
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20160728 22:11:49< gfgtdf> vultraz: maybe you coudl just include boost/system/detail/error_code.ipp in some cpp file and see if it compiles ?
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20160728 22:12:43< gfgtdf> vultraz: #include <boost/system/detail/error_code.ipp> in that c++ file i meant
20160728 22:13:23< vultraz> gfgtdf: the error is different now
20160728 22:13:27< vultraz> .objs-release\src\ai\composite\component.o:component.cpp:(.text+0x17f6): undefined reference to `boost::regex_error::regex_error(std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > const&, boost::regex_constants::error_type, int)'
20160728 22:13:29< vultraz> .objs-release\src\ai\composite\component.o:component.cpp:(.text+0x1808): undefined reference to `boost::regex_error::raise() const'
20160728 22:13:30< vultraz> .objs-release\src\ai\composite\component.o:component.cpp:(.text+0x1810): undefined reference to `boost::regex_error::~regex_error()'
20160728 22:13:32< vultraz> .objs-release\src\ai\composite\component.o:component.cpp:(.text+0x184a): undefined reference to `boost::regex_error::~regex_error()'
20160728 22:16:48< SigurdFD> zookeeper, vultraz: About mainlining a campaign: I messaged beetlenaut about TFoB & SotA. His preference is for SotA, and he feels it is ready to go in. Note that https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?22206 would need to be fixed first for SotA to go in.
20160728 22:17:17< vultraz> SigurdFD: we'll certainly fix that for 1.14
20160728 22:17:35< vultraz> SigurdFD: personally, I still think OoA could be a candidate as well
20160728 22:18:00< zookeeper> i can't take on new projects
20160728 22:18:23< vultraz> who's asking you to?
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20160728 22:19:22< SigurdFD> zookeeper: I was just making a statement in reference to my own possible effort on mainlining a campaign
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20160728 22:20:03< zookeeper> oh, okay
20160728 22:20:13< gfgtdf> vultraz: did you build the boost 1.58 yourself too ?
20160728 22:20:16< SigurdFD> Is there something I'm missing about the difficulty of mainlining & maintaining a campaign?
20160728 22:20:21-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20160728 22:20:25< vultraz> gfgtdf: I think so yes
20160728 22:21:25< SigurdFD> it seems like for SotA, I'd just need to make 2 review passes over the code, make sure it works on 1.13, & make a pr to add it.
20160728 22:22:16< SigurdFD> and to maintain it, just address any bugs reported & make sure changes haven't broken it.
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20160728 22:26:24< zookeeper> SigurdFD, depends on how compulsively one wants to tweak all sorts of little details, i suppose
20160728 22:26:28< gfgtdf> vultraz: are your sure your set your lobary folder correctly to the new boost versions= I'd think it'dgive you an erro if not but just ot be sure
20160728 22:26:43< SigurdFD> I'm looking to avoid that :P
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20160728 22:27:05< vultraz> yeah, the main boost/ folder is 1.61
20160728 22:27:14< vultraz> the i renamed the other ones to boost-58 and boost-60
20160728 22:27:19< vultraz> it shouldn't be touching them
20160728 22:27:28< zookeeper> SigurdFD, in that case there shouldn't be anything surprisingly difficult :p
20160728 22:28:01< celticminstrel> [Jul 28@4:33:35pm] vultraz: "std::string str = std::string();"
20160728 22:28:02< celticminstrel> That is indeed dumb, feel free to nuke it.
20160728 22:28:15< celmin> So, what's SotA?
20160728 22:28:42< SigurdFD> ok. any thoughts on if mainlining 2 campaigns happens for 1.14? (ie, SotA & OoA)
20160728 22:29:00< vultraz> sure
20160728 22:29:07< SigurdFD> Secrets of the Ancients - an epic undead campaign
20160728 22:29:09< celmin> I wouldn't mind mainlining two or even three or four campaigns if they can be maintained.
20160728 22:29:31< celmin> Especially if they involve drakes or khalifate to any large degree.
20160728 22:30:04< SigurdFD> there's no drake campaign suitable to go it, or I'd be pushing for that.
20160728 22:30:05< celmin> Or saurians or nagas, I guess. To a lesser extent.
20160728 22:30:15< SigurdFD> it/in
20160728 22:30:24< celmin> I remember reading about some Wings of Something, though it was unfinished I think.
20160728 22:30:26< SigurdFD> as far as I know
20160728 22:30:28< zookeeper> what does the ship in SotA look like nowadays?
20160728 22:30:29< celmin> Valour?
20160728 22:30:35< vultraz> Wings of Victory is unfinished
20160728 22:30:40< celmin> Victory, okay.
20160728 22:30:44< celmin> How unfinished?
20160728 22:30:58< SigurdFD> hmmm...I'll go take a look
20160728 22:31:36< celmin> I'm personally not that interested in SotA, though if it's very different from DiD then that could be good.
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20160728 22:33:49< SigurdFD> seems fine to me.
20160728 22:34:59< celmin> Would you say it's similar to DiD or very different?
20160728 22:36:12< SigurdFD> hmmmm....kinda middle
20160728 22:36:21< celmin> Middle?
20160728 22:36:31< celmin> So, somewhat similar, but still significantly different?
20160728 22:36:41< SigurdFD> story's better.
20160728 22:36:42< vultraz> ugh, can't find an include to shut up these regex errors
20160728 22:37:01< celmin> Well, DiD has the idiotic ending...
20160728 22:37:02< SigurdFD> learning about each undead is somewhat similar
20160728 22:37:08< celmin> vultraz: What errors?
20160728 22:37:33< SigurdFD> better ending, you get to make good use ancient lich's
20160728 22:37:46< vultraz> .objs-release\src\ai\composite\component.o:component.cpp|| undefined reference to `boost::regex_error::regex_error(std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > const&, boost::regex_constants::error_type, int)'|
20160728 22:37:47< vultraz> .objs-release\src\ai\composite\component.o:component.cpp|| undefined reference to `boost::regex_error::raise() const'|
20160728 22:37:49< vultraz> .objs-release\src\ai\composite\component.o:component.cpp|| undefined reference to `boost::regex_error::~regex_error()'|
20160728 22:37:50< vultraz> .objs-release\src\ai\composite\component.o:component.cpp|| undefined reference to `boost::regex_error::~regex_error()'|
20160728 22:38:07< SigurdFD> though learing about undead feels more in depth with SotA
20160728 22:38:11< celmin> Speaking of regex, vultraz, maybe change them to std:: in boost_trimmings.
20160728 22:38:21< vultraz> good idea
20160728 22:38:39< vultraz> but I still would like to get this to build
20160728 22:38:54< vultraz> gfgtdf: pointed out an include that solved the system_error undefined references..
20160728 22:38:57< vultraz> now i get these :|
20160728 22:39:00< celmin> Anyway, maybe you'd need to link libboost_regex? (Not sure if Boost.Regex has a lib.)
20160728 22:39:44< vultraz> already am
20160728 22:39:57< gfgtdf> celmin: it has, and acoring to the link vultraz gave ablove,  http://pastebin.com/Nq1ShFvt he links it already
20160728 22:40:24< celmin> Ah, sorry, I did read through all that but didn't click any links because I assumed none of them would still be relevant.
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20160728 22:45:37< gfgtdf> vultraz: maybe you coudl try replacing -lboost_regex-mgw51-mt-1_61 with the full path like in -lC:\vultrat\cpp\boost\lboost_regex-mgw51-mt-1_61.a?
20160728 22:46:13< gfgtdf> vultraz: or maybe some  caching is going on?
20160728 22:46:25< gfgtdf> vultraz: on msvc i sometimes had problems with caching when update libs
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20160728 22:53:41< Aginor> vultraz?
20160728 22:53:57< celmin> Hi
20160728 22:54:01< Aginor> why do I apparently need to approve that commit?
20160728 22:54:04< Aginor> hi celmin 
20160728 22:54:21< celmin> Because it's a refactor, even though it's a minor one.
20160728 22:57:08< Aginor> ok
20160728 22:57:19< Aginor> it's not a refactor, it also changes behaviour
20160728 22:57:58< Aginor> so given that, what's the reason for the commit? what are the potential side effects?
20160728 22:58:15< celmin> It's really two separate things mixed together, one is a refactor, the other is clamping the font scaling.
20160728 22:58:35< gfgtdf> celmin: did you try the BOOST_BIND_NO_PLACEHOLDERS  thing ?
20160728 22:58:45< celmin> I forget.
20160728 22:59:04< celmin> I did set it and try compiling, and I think it got about 15% through before I cancelled it.
20160728 23:04:42< wedge009> SigurdFD: I did a quick debug-playthrough of SotA, it seems okay even if it would be good to have some nicer illustrations (I suppose that could apply to everything).
20160728 23:05:57< wedge009> vultraz: Kwandulin said he wants to rewrite it and while I thought the first part was a good introduction to the Khalifate, I felt it got a bit 'weird' once the story got to the bit about the sphere and magic and what-not.
20160728 23:06:54< wedge009> celmin: Agree that campaigns featuring un(der)represented races would be great.
20160728 23:07:37< wedge009> SigurdFD: I also tried Flight to Freedom, and the concept is good but to me it doesn't quite fit in with the Wesnoth story as it stands.
20160728 23:07:39< celmin> Elvish_Hunter: I hear that EoHS has abilities that require the user to select a target hex - is this true? And if so, how is it done?
20160728 23:08:02< Ravana_> Pillager, not Hunter
20160728 23:08:15< celmin> Oh. Then uh...
20160728 23:08:20< celmin> EliDupree was it?
20160728 23:08:29< Ravana_> yes
20160728 23:08:35< EliDupree> Hello!
20160728 23:09:19< EliDupree> EoHS defaults to targeting the hex you right-click on to invoke the context menu, and I wrote a custom dialog thing to let you adjust the target inside the dialogue as well.
20160728 23:09:35< celmin> Ah.
20160728 23:09:41< wedge009> celmin: SotA is from the perspective of necromancers who don't necessarily want to 'take over the world' but the world ends up ganging up on them anyway. I wouldn't say the ending to DiD was idiotic, but I suppose it's difficult to end an undead character's story anyway, since conceivably they could go on indefinitely.
20160728 23:10:27< celmin> wedge009: It's idiotic from a gameplay perspective.
20160728 23:10:34< EliDupree> Any particular reason you ask?
20160728 23:10:37< wedge009> Well, yes, a forced loss.
20160728 23:10:59< wedge009> I didn't mind it, it made sense to me.
20160728 23:11:10< celmin> Because Ravana_ brought it up and I was a little surprised that someone had found a way to target arbitrary hexes.
20160728 23:11:37< wedge009> Maybe because I relate more to the foolish hero than a malevolent lich.
20160728 23:12:07< celmin> It's not quite what I was thinking about though. Still kind of clever.
20160728 23:15:59< wedge009> Maybe because I rushed through it but I really didn't understand The Founding of Borstep. While it was cute to ally some dwarves to the orcs, I don't understand the significance of the story. I don't know why Borstep is significant and overall I feel Son of the Black-Eye does more for the orcs than TFoB.
20160728 23:16:24< wedge009> It's not a bad campaign, though.
20160728 23:16:48< celmin> Dwarves allied to orcs seems a bit weird.
20160728 23:17:25< wedge009> That was my thought too.
20160728 23:17:50< SigurdFD> wedge009: ok. I'll have to give Flight to Freedom a look sometime.
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20160728 23:19:39< SigurdFD> my thoughts on TFoB was that it was a shorter, expert level orc campaign that could be added.
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20160728 23:21:52< wedge009> SigurdFD: I think Flight to Freedom is okay on its own but it doesn't make sense (to me) to put it in the Wesnoth story the way it currently is. It seems to be a fairly popular campaign focusing on the drakes, which is why I gave it a try (and mentioned it here). I also don't understand why the human companions are allowed to stay with the drakes (it's a major plot point).
20160728 23:22:58< celmin> What do you mean?
20160728 23:23:44< wedge009> I think others were voting for TFoB. It wouldn't bother me if it was added as it is, aside from the dwarven allies, but it's not implausible that such alliances could happen.
20160728 23:23:52< wedge009> celmin: You asking me?
20160728 23:24:54< SigurdFD> I was considering undertaking adding TFoB at first, but I think I'm going with SotA for 1.14 Someone else could undertake adding TFoB, or I may revisit the notion in 1.15
20160728 23:25:35< wedge009> If we can only have one of the two, I would favour SotA over TFoB.
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20160728 23:26:03< celmin> Yeah
20160728 23:26:10< celmin> wedge009: ^
20160728 23:26:13< wedge009> A major character from SotA makes a cameo appearance in TFoB.
20160728 23:26:24< SigurdFD> though if somehow both SotA & OoA get added for 1.14, I would think TFoB should kept to add for 1.15
20160728 23:26:35< wedge009> celmin: What specifically are you asking about?
20160728 23:26:53< celmin> "I also don't understand why the human companions are allowed to stay with the drakes (it's a major plot point)."
20160728 23:27:00< wedge009> Have you played it?
20160728 23:27:07< wedge009> Played Flight to Freedom?
20160728 23:27:19< celmin> No
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20160728 23:27:57< celmin> BTW, I'd also be interested in mainlining something with eg aragwaithi
20160728 23:28:16< wedge009> What's that? o.O
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20160728 23:28:39< celmin> A faction/race that appears in several addons.
20160728 23:29:28< celmin> For campaigns, I only know of The Settlers of Light and uh… I think After the Storm?
20160728 23:29:38< celmin> But it's also in some eras too I think.
20160728 23:30:11< celmin> I dunno if there are other factions/races that are well-used among addons.
20160728 23:30:55< celmin> Actually I'd be interested in adding aragwaithi as an MP faction, but that would need to be run by the actual MP players.
20160728 23:32:31< wedge009> Invasion from the Unknown stuff? I haven't really touched those. They seem to get really weird to me, although I suppose everything in Wesnoth goes down the toilet after UtBS, etc.
20160728 23:32:47< celmin> I don't think it originated in IftU or AtS.
20160728 23:33:05< celmin> I don't know where it originated though. (Any idea, Ravana_?)
20160728 23:33:13< wedge009> I wasn't saying they did, I just mentally put all those post-fall stories in the same category.
20160728 23:33:38< celmin> Supposedly there's pre-fall lore for the aragwaithi. I dunno if there's any campaigns about that though.
20160728 23:33:43< Ravana_> aragwaithi?
20160728 23:33:48< Ravana_> Feudal era I believe
20160728 23:34:07< celmin> Oh huh...
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20160728 23:35:07< shadowm> They were in Extended Era before Feudal Era was even created.
20160728 23:36:30< celmin> Oh huh, some of the other factions in Extended Era are also familiar - chaos, steppe orcs, the sprite form sylvans.
20160728 23:36:50< wedge009> I don't know all these era names. What do we call the era where most of the main campaigns take place?
20160728 23:36:59< shadowm> Default Era.
20160728 23:37:03< celmin> It's just … yeah, that.
20160728 23:37:05< wedge009> Oh duh, makes sense.
20160728 23:37:07< wedge009> Thanks.
20160728 23:37:40< celmin> Though technically "era" is used as more of a multiplayer term and the campaigns never quite fit into any particular era.
20160728 23:37:59< shadowm> EE was some kind of faction menagerie without any kind of backstory or connection whatsoever. I don't think the Aragwaithi had a set backstory at all and they've basically become the go-to faction for any era or campaign that needs a narrative blank slate with a full unit tree and stats.
20160728 23:38:02< wedge009> I don't usually play MP, so that's probably why I don't know much about all these other races.
20160728 23:38:40< shadowm> For a while they were used by A New Order but the author later replaced them with the mainlined Khalifate.
20160728 23:39:00< shadowm> Also, I'm going to take 'weird' as a compliment.
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20160728 23:40:30< celmin> I'm not too fond of what I've heard of the lore of the fall, honestly. If they're doing something so horribly drastic, why is there no-one to stop them? They're not the only beings on the planet, after all.
20160728 23:40:32< wedge009> I suppose the appeal of Wesnoth to me is the classic fantasy interaction between humans, elves, orcs, dwarves, etc. The alien races on top of those seem 'weird' - or unusual, if you prefer - to me, but I know others are perfectly fine with them. I suppose I'm into the pre-fall story.
20160728 23:40:48< celmin> Their actions affect the entire planet.
20160728 23:40:59< celmin> Incidentally, the aragwaithi are a human faction,
20160728 23:41:06< wedge009> Ah, okay.
20160728 23:41:18< celmin> Which is a minor mark against them in terms of diversity (since we already have two human factions).
20160728 23:41:42< shadowm> Two and a half.
20160728 23:41:43< wedge009> Were they mentioned in Oath of Allegiance? Or was that Argvathi (spelling?)?
20160728 23:41:53< celmin> Ah right, Knalgans.
20160728 23:42:04< celmin> wedge009: Yeah, those are different.
20160728 23:42:08< wedge009> Stupid humans, being so darned flexible!
20160728 23:42:25< wedge009> Okay. Very similar spelling, though.
20160728 23:42:47< celmin> I personally don't have a problem with multiple factions that are nominally the same race.
20160728 23:43:01< celmin> It could be cool to have a second faction involving dwarves, elves, or orcs.
20160728 23:43:23< celmin> (I suppose quenoth sorta qualifies, but that's closely linked to after the fall.)
20160728 23:43:40< wedge009> Forest elves vs Sand elves?
20160728 23:43:51< celmin> Quenoth are the sand elves of UtBS, yes.
20160728 23:44:53< shadowm> Against my initial suggestion, the revamp isn't being done with MP in mind so that'll probably not happen until 1.16 or 1.18.
20160728 23:45:38< celmin> I imagine adding something like falcons would be needed for MP balance, at least.
20160728 23:45:51< celmin> Because every faction needs a unit that can cross deep water.
20160728 23:46:00< celmin> I think?
20160728 23:46:05< shadowm> ... No?
20160728 23:46:14< shadowm> Which unit in the Loyalists faction can cross deep water?
20160728 23:46:19< celmin> The merman warrior.
20160728 23:46:59< shadowm> Figures.
20160728 23:47:09< celmin> What?
20160728 23:47:14< shadowm> Figures.
20160728 23:47:18< celmin> ...
20160728 23:47:21< shadowm> I had forgotten there was some overlap with Rebels in that regard.
20160728 23:55:09< celmin> Rebels only has the merman hunter.
20160728 23:55:19< celmin> I think neither get the initiate.
20160728 23:55:52< shadowm> The merman fighter and hunter are both merfolk that's what I mean.
20160728 23:55:57< shadowm> They also share the human mage.
20160728 23:56:01< celmin> Even if quenoth aren't balanced for multiplayer, I think it'd be nice for them to be in core for 1.14.
20160728 23:56:05< celmin> Yeah, that they do.
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20160728 23:57:03< celmin> Other imported factions (aragwaithi or anything else) could also be added to core without being in the default (or default+) era.
20160728 23:57:30< celmin> Allowing addons to use them without necessarily exposing them to MP games.
--- Log closed Fri Jul 29 00:00:48 2016