--- Log opened Wed Jul 13 00:00:19 2016
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20160713 09:31:42< woseshaman> Is it possible to make a scenario not end when your leader is killed?
20160713 09:39:38< Soliton> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/ScenarioWML#Scenario_End_Conditions
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20160713 19:57:02< Anna__> Hello. I can't load a map of mine for a local game and I'm getting a weird message. What "mandatory WML child" is??
20160713 19:59:05< zookeeper> on what wesnoth version is that?
20160713 20:00:37< Anna__> 1.12.5
20160713 20:04:09< zookeeper> okay. in the editor, did you save it as map or scenario?
20160713 20:05:04< Anna__> save map as
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20160713 20:06:23< Anna__> The whole message says: "Mandatory WML child missing yet untested for. Please report." And then the multiplayer screen closes.
20160713 20:08:05< zookeeper> i'm... not sure what's wrong. if you're sure that the problem is in that map file, could you just upload it somewhere like http://filebin.ca/ ?
20160713 20:09:48< Anna__> I don't even know where the map file was saved LOL (ubuntu here)
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20160713 20:11:59< zookeeper> according to https://wiki.wesnoth.org/EditingWesnoth#Linux_2 probably in ~/.local/share/wesnoth/
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20160713 20:17:23< Anna__> filebin.ca doesn't work LOL it's not my day
20160713 20:18:31< woseshaman> Interesting, apparently moveto events which may only occur after a certain turn number trigger if the unit is already standing on the hex
20160713 20:18:40< zookeeper> well, https://www.sendspace.com/ or something then, if you don't have a dropbox or similar already
20160713 20:18:58< zookeeper> woseshaman, really? that's... odd
20160713 20:19:29< woseshaman> I'm surprised as well, maybe it has a different cause
20160713 20:19:30< zookeeper> i'd be very interested in seeing that
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20160713 20:20:36< zookeeper> that seems more likely, yes
20160713 20:21:06< Anna__> https://www.sendspace.com/file/jinghz
20160713 20:21:09< woseshaman> If its not because of moveto itself i have no idea why its happening though
20160713 20:22:35< zookeeper> Anna__, of course you can just pastebin the contents too
20160713 20:23:27< Anna__> excuse me?
20160713 20:24:04< zookeeper> open the map file in a text editor, then http://pastebin.com/
20160713 20:28:23< woseshaman> is there a way to make a scenario end with a victory if all human sides are defeated?
20160713 20:28:49< Anna__> http://pastebin.com/B8SsBexi
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20160713 20:29:05< zookeeper> woseshaman, sure, i don't see why not
20160713 20:30:11< zookeeper> Anna__, you're missing starting locations, it seems
20160713 20:30:59< Anna__> How can I do that?
20160713 20:31:24< zookeeper> there's a starting positions tool in the editor, next to the regular painting tools
20160713 20:31:51< woseshaman> i think by default a scenario ends with a defeat if human controlled sides are defeated, but i dont know how to change that
20160713 20:32:39< zookeeper> woseshaman, could be as simple as having a defeat event with [endlevel] result=victory... if that means anything to you
20160713 20:32:59< zookeeper> i've never done it so not sure if it requires more trickery than that
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20160713 20:34:08< woseshaman> 	[event] 		name = defeat 		[endlevel] 			result = victory 		[/endlevel] 	[/event] something like this?
20160713 20:35:47< zookeeper> yeah, that
20160713 20:36:21< zookeeper> as said, it might or might not be enough
20160713 20:36:43< woseshaman> ill try it
20160713 20:38:05< Anna__> It works now. Thank you zookeeper kisses :x
20160713 20:38:54< zookeeper> great
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20160713 20:40:55< DeFender1031> zookeeper, on a similar note, since i've got a similar case, is there any way to store_unit the leader and remove him from the board (to be replaced next turn) and have the game not consider you defeated?
20160713 20:43:46< zookeeper> i... suppose not?
20160713 20:43:58< woseshaman> you can change a defeat condition for a side
20160713 20:44:05< woseshaman> for example defeat_condition = no_units_left
20160713 20:44:29< DeFender1031> hmm...
20160713 20:44:32< zookeeper> i mean
20160713 20:44:37< zookeeper> unless you ... yeah, do that
20160713 20:44:53< woseshaman> and have events that make you lose if a leader is killed
20160713 20:45:05< DeFender1031> ah
20160713 20:45:09< DeFender1031> that'd be how to do it then.
20160713 20:45:21< DeFender1031> i can manually add a death event.
20160713 20:45:30< DeFender1031> come to think of it, I already do.
20160713 20:46:22< woseshaman> you just have to pay attention to not trigger the death event when you remove the leader
20160713 20:49:50< DeFender1031> obviously
20160713 20:50:05< DeFender1031> does this prevent villages from unflagging also?
20160713 20:51:13< zookeeper> ah. probably not.
20160713 20:51:26< DeFender1031> urgh.
20160713 20:52:06< zookeeper> so you might need to just discreetly make someone else the leader in the interim
20160713 20:52:55< woseshaman> leaders are defined by canrecruit = yes i think so modifying a unit should be enough
20160713 20:53:17< DeFender1031> not entirely possible... but i'll think of some workaround. i already had a similar case elsewhere (though with an allied AI side, not with the human player's)
20160713 20:53:38< DeFender1031> there's no way to do it discreetly though... it gives them that stupid crown that has no way to turn off
20160713 20:54:21< woseshaman> does modifying a unit with canrecruit = yes and later modifying it back to canrecruit = no work?
20160713 20:54:39< zookeeper> leaderlessness is unfortunately kind of poorly supported (or, not at all)
20160713 20:54:59< DeFender1031> i've noticed.
20160713 20:55:02< zookeeper> woseshaman, sure, you can modify it back and forth as you please
20160713 20:55:10< DeFender1031> yeah, i've done that
20160713 20:55:31< DeFender1031> the only issue is that then some random unit gets the little crown and behaves like the leader
20160713 20:55:47< woseshaman> i meant as a solution to the villages unflagging
20160713 20:58:44< zookeeper> give it to _everyone_ so it's not just one unit? :>
20160713 20:59:20< DeFender1031> could, but also looks weird
20160713 21:00:05< DeFender1031> i might just do something similar to what i did in the other case which is have some inaccessible spot where i put him hidden
20160713 21:00:28< DeFender1031> or i could say the leader is not allowed to board a boat
20160713 21:00:38< DeFender1031> and thus avoid the issue entirely
20160713 21:02:28< woseshaman> also avoiding defeat the way i tried to didnt work :/
20160713 21:07:54< zookeeper> woseshaman, right, in that case you probably need to catch the last leader dying in a die event, and [endlevel] from that. maybe temporarily restore it to life if necessary.
20160713 21:08:28< DeFender1031> doesn't DiD end with a victory condition for defeat?
20160713 21:08:40< DeFender1031> you could check the code there for how they do it
20160713 21:09:16< zookeeper> woseshaman, also can't you just use defeat_condition= to prevent defeat altogether, and trigger victory whenever you want?
20160713 21:09:48< woseshaman> DiD?
20160713 21:10:25< DeFender1031> Descent into Darkness
20160713 21:10:31< DeFender1031> one of the mainline campaigns
20160713 21:10:50< woseshaman> im trying to make the scenario end with a victory as your last unit dies, so i tried setting defeat_condition = no_units_left for all human sides
20160713 21:11:08< woseshaman> and then make the scenario end with a victory if all human sides are defeated
20160713 21:12:06< zookeeper> well defeat_condition = no_units_left naturally makes you _lose_ when your last unit dies, if you want to avoid that use defeat_condition = never or whatever it was
20160713 21:12:08< woseshaman> also youre right, ill check the last scenario of that campaign, im not too good with the abbrevs
20160713 21:12:55< DeFender1031> woseshaman, DiD ends with a neverending scenario that you have to beat at least once and then die to really end the campaign. I found the relevant code already (in 1.12 anyway)
20160713 21:13:35< DeFender1031> woseshaman, http://paste.nachsoftware.com/DeFender1031/kgyzDb4e8a336ee63847dfffa5786aef83423aPL
20160713 21:14:27< DeFender1031> you probably want a die event with a filter_condition on have_unit for whatever side.
20160713 21:14:40< DeFender1031> and then just put your victory inside that
20160713 21:15:46< woseshaman> the event is bound to a specific unit dying, so it should trigger before the side is considered defeated
20160713 21:15:57< woseshaman> not sure if i can do that in my case
20160713 21:20:18< celticminstrel> DeFender1031: You could make the boat the leader while the leader is on board?
20160713 21:20:49< celticminstrel> DiD does end with defeat as a victory condition, which is utterly absurd and should be changed.
20160713 21:23:05< zookeeper> nooo
20160713 21:24:11< celticminstrel> If you have to beat it at least once anyway, just end it at that point instead of adding a pointless and illogical epilogue.
20160713 21:24:11< zookeeper> (what should be ensured is that the player can't survive indefinitely, or even for very many repetitions)
20160713 21:24:49< celticminstrel> It's absurd for utter defeat to be a victory.
20160713 21:25:13< zookeeper> well it's clearly not a "victory"
20160713 21:25:18< celticminstrel> (Defeat could be a victory if there are unusual circumstances, mind you, but from what I understand this is not the case in DiD.)
20160713 21:25:18< zookeeper> it's just the only way to make it stop :p
20160713 21:25:44< celticminstrel> It would be better to relegate that sort of thing to text and/or cutscenes rather than giving the player the illusion that they can do something about it.
20160713 21:28:09< woseshaman> I dont even understand why he is supposed to die in the campaign even though there are several other campaigns which use him much later on
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20160713 21:35:14< woseshaman> unfortunately i dont think whats done in DiD works in my case
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20160713 21:49:20< woseshaman> how does the game track the no_units_left defeat condition?
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20160713 21:49:55< zookeeper> simply by checking whether the side has any units left, i'd imagine
20160713 21:50:47< woseshaman> is there a way to check that manually? 
20160713 21:51:47< zookeeper> sure, [have_unit] [not] side=1 would match if side 1 has no units
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20160713 22:06:14< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, the boat isn't an actual unit
20160713 22:08:15< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, I disagree. the fact that you can only end it by losing is one of the most powerful points in the whole story.
20160713 22:10:08< DeFender1031> woseshaman, 1. the ones in which he appears later on may be popular, but they're not mainline. 2. liches often don't really die when defeated they just sort of leave whoever beat them alone for a while
20160713 22:10:25< DeFender1031> zookeeper, that exact kind of filter is what i was suggesting that woseshaman do
20160713 22:12:18< DeFender1031> woseshaman, http://paste.nachsoftware.com/DeFender1031/mCWhX861fa07750ba9c4fa55d5786bcb871da0YP
20160713 22:12:32< DeFender1031> woseshaman, if this doesn't do what you need, I don't know what will
20160713 22:12:48< DeFender1031> (adjust the endlevel parameters as you need)
20160713 22:14:04< woseshaman> ill try it, thanks :)
20160713 22:16:31< DeFender1031> sure
20160713 22:16:55< DeFender1031> this IS what i was referring to above, btw.
20160713 22:17:12< woseshaman> mightve missed it before
20160713 22:18:41< DeFender1031> when i sent the link to the original DiD end code and said you probably want to modify it to a filter_condition with a have_unit
20160713 22:19:07< DeFender1031> whatever. point is, this should do what you're asking
20160713 22:19:47< woseshaman> is there an easy way to make it check whether 2 sides have no units left?
20160713 22:20:26< DeFender1031> sure.
20160713 22:20:43< DeFender1031> where it says "side=1" change it to "side=1,2"
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20160713 22:30:26< woseshaman> works perfectly
20160713 22:31:04< DeFender1031> glad to hear it
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20160713 22:59:02-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 14 00:00:39 2016