--- Log opened Thu Jul 14 00:00:39 2016
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20160714 04:34:13< celticminstrel> It's not an argument about the story, it's an argument about subverting the expectations of the game mechanics.
20160714 04:36:06< celticminstrel> I don't care what kind of story point you want to get across; turning utter defeat into victory is just wrong.
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20160714 10:45:07< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, I agree with you somewhat, though I don't think not making mal's death be the end is the answer. The point is, it's not "victory" in the traditional sense, it's simply "the end". An alternative that would be less misleading to the player would be if after the first time through, there were a different opening scene where mal says something about his tormented existance, and the scenario objectives were changed to 
20160714 10:45:08< DeFender1031> just say "end the pain". That would retain the power of "the only way out of the darkness is to let it end" without confusing the user with "how many times do I have to do this before it's over?"
20160714 10:45:29< DeFender1031> oh, he's not here anymore. I wonder if he reads the logs...
20160714 10:48:49< zookeeper> yeah the presentation is definitely far from ideal currently, but i think the basic idea is good.
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20160714 11:25:11< DeFender1031> zookeeper, agreed. I think it'd lose something if it was just a cutscene or epilogue which essentially just says "and then he was there forever".
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20160714 12:08:51< vultraz> DeFender1031: are you talking about DiD
20160714 12:09:10< DeFender1031> vultraz, yeah, it was a conversation that was started last night
20160714 12:09:43< vultraz> I have an idea
20160714 12:10:02< vultraz> Might look into implementing it soon
20160714 12:10:05< DeFender1031> I like ideas.
20160714 12:10:34< DeFender1031> Oh. I thought you were planning on sharing your idea.
20160714 12:10:45< vultraz> Well
20160714 12:11:00< vultraz> Foremost, the whole 'repeat this scenario' thing is trite and boring
20160714 12:11:39< vultraz> So I'd probably get rid of that
20160714 12:12:07< vultraz> Still have to work out the details for the rest, though :P
20160714 12:12:19< vultraz> I have ideas... just not fully planned out ones.
20160714 12:13:15< vultraz> I'll tell you once I have it worked out
20160714 12:17:13< zookeeper> i'm guessing you're thinking of making it one long survival with new foolish heroes appearing periodically, instead of the same scenario repeating
20160714 12:19:11< vultraz> not exactly
20160714 12:19:23< vultraz> but that is an idea
20160714 12:20:40< zookeeper> okay
20160714 12:21:57< zookeeper> i don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with repeating what's essentially the same scenario, as long as there's more variation. changing intro text, dialogue, map details, etc. currently it's confusing because it's _exactly_ the same.
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 15 00:00:31 2016