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20160724 11:12:31< Rodick> hi guys 
20160724 11:14:42< Rodick> when will we have 1.13.4 open for all?
20160724 11:16:17< zookeeper> what do you mean, open for all?
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20160724 11:20:38< Rodick> sry i mean like standard version for now it is 1.12.6 right?
20160724 11:20:57< Rodick> or as someone would say stable version
20160724 11:23:11< zookeeper> there's no exact schedule, it depends on all the things we want in it will be ready. i wouldn't expect to see it this year, though.
20160724 11:24:43< zookeeper> ...on when all the things we want in it will be ready, i mean
20160724 11:28:59< Rodick> ok and is there donation button on website for devs
20160724 11:29:08< Rodick> pls let us give them something 
20160724 11:29:15< Rodick> maybe we can speed this up
20160724 11:30:10< Rodick> with state if you want to help us you can donate, etc
20160724 11:30:32< Rodick> i want to do 
20160724 11:32:18< zookeeper> i'm afraid donations wouldn't really speed things up much, but in any case i think the possibility of having a patreon account or otherwise accepting donations has been discussed recently... not that i recall what became of it.
20160724 11:34:19< Rodick> with this game coming on steam it will be great i think u will attract lot of ppl that would help. not all of us know how to code or make art but we have $ that would help
20160724 11:34:43< zookeeper> hopefully
20160724 11:47:56< vultraz> Rodick: we'll look into it
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20160724 13:18:28< Rodick> can we use mouse pointer from this 
20160724 13:18:29< Rodick> http://mproud.com/wesnoth/canvas/
20160724 13:29:05< vultraz> Rodick: we already have an improved cursor in 1.13: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/images/cursors/normal.png
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20160724 13:33:07< Rodick> cool :) that looks great
20160724 13:48:36< DeFender1031> vultraz, is it horrible that I actually like the cursor from 1.12 better?
20160724 13:48:46 * vultraz shrugs
20160724 13:48:51< vultraz> the 1.13 is a little flashy 
20160724 13:49:00< vultraz> but the 1.12 one is dull and not that well done
20160724 13:49:39< DeFender1031> i wouldn't call it "not that well done". I would call it "dull", but mouse cursors aren't SUPPOSED to be flashy.
20160724 13:50:36< Rodick> Defender1031 yeah i see what you mean it is a bit more color flashy
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20160724 21:59:27< janebot> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) We broke the Greenlight top 50! (#49) [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/757334401667600384 ]
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20160724 22:00:26< DeFender1031> Keep climbin' that ladder, wesnoth!
20160724 22:17:44< celmin> My sister just voted too. \o/
20160724 22:23:26-!- MadMerlin2 is now known as MadMerlin
20160724 22:24:13< DeFender1031> celmin, give her a wesnoth-themed "i voted" sticker.
20160724 22:24:24< celmin> Pffft.
20160724 22:24:38< celmin> That sounds like a lot of work.
20160724 22:25:37< DeFender1031> come to think of it, i'd rather vote for wesnoth than either of the options currently being presented by the american false-dichotomy system...
20160724 22:25:43< celmin> Heh...
20160724 22:25:50< DeFender1031> too bad it's not the same election.
20160724 22:25:59< celmin> I liked Bernie Sanders, pity he didn't get further.
20160724 22:26:04< celmin> Though I'm also not USian.
20160724 22:26:11< celmin> So I wouldn't get to vote either way.
20160724 22:26:55< DeFender1031> Well then. This was a fun conversation that shouldn't continue. :P
20160724 22:27:03< celmin> Yeah probably.
20160724 22:28:08< DeFender1031> I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that I'm a moderate libertarian myself, so Bernie Free-stuff-for-all Sanders is the antithesis of my own political philosophy.
20160724 22:29:08< DeFender1031> (Not to continue the conversation, mind you, just elaborating on why continuing is probably a bad idea.)
20160724 22:29:45< DeFender1031> I have enough respect for other opinions though to agree to disagree.
20160724 22:30:29< vultraz> And I like Sanders and voted for him but also agree with Clinton on the issues, even if I think she acted like a total idiot with the email scandal :P
20160724 22:31:50< zookeeper> i try to not talk about those elections because there's so many candidates and i know nothing about 99% of them
20160724 22:32:00< lipkab> vultraz: "voted for him" <- Wait, are you a US citizen?
20160724 22:32:11< vultraz> um... yes? :P
20160724 22:32:27< vultraz> I was born in the US too
20160724 22:32:34< lipkab> I always thought you belonged to some Pacific micro-nation.
20160724 22:32:42< lipkab> Micronesia or whatever.
20160724 22:32:52< vultraz> I live there, yes
20160724 22:32:57< vultraz> But I'm an American 
20160724 22:33:07< celmin> I haven't been following closely enough to say that I would agree with Bernie Sanders on all counts, only that he seemed a better choice in the average than Clinton.
20160724 22:33:16< lipkab> Oh, cool.
20160724 22:33:17< celmin> Pacific micro-nation? Like Hawaii? :P
20160724 22:33:32< lipkab> Hawaii is not a proper nation.
20160724 22:33:36< celmin> I know.
20160724 22:33:37< lipkab> Micronesia is.
20160724 22:33:47< celmin> Huh, okay then.
20160724 22:34:18< vultraz> A very Americanized one
20160724 22:34:32< celmin> If I were USian though I'd vote for Clinton, because anything else would be to invite disaster.
20160724 22:35:03< zookeeper> celmin, ...how could you know that?
20160724 22:35:03< vultraz> American money, a US-based airline (United), a US bank....
20160724 22:35:10< celmin> Know what exactly?
20160724 22:35:17< zookeeper> know that everyone else is worse
20160724 22:35:30< celmin> Not everyone else, just Trump.
20160724 22:35:45< celmin> A vote for someone other than those two helps Trump by splitting the left vote.
20160724 22:35:51< loonycyborg> voting for klinton will move US closer to monarchy
20160724 22:36:05< loonycyborg> also, she's an annoying person
20160724 22:36:32< loonycyborg> I think bernie should nominate himself as independent
20160724 22:36:36< celmin> From what I've heard I don't much like her either.
20160724 22:36:46 * zookeeper grumbles something about succumbing to the false-dichotomy system
20160724 22:36:54< celmin> If Bernie could run as an independent and actually have a chance of winning, that would be great!
20160724 22:36:58< vultraz> Being annoying doesn't necessarily mean you're unqualified :P
20160724 22:37:01< celmin> But, more likely such a move would give the win to Trump.
20160724 22:37:17< loonycyborg> I don't mind trump winning
20160724 22:37:29< loonycyborg> at least he's not from a ruling dynasty
20160724 22:37:33< shadowm> Well I do actually mind a lot.
20160724 22:37:48< vultraz> As do I
20160724 22:37:52< celmin> I'm sorry, but there's something wrong with you if you don't mind Trump winning.
20160724 22:38:02< loonycyborg> I think he's funny
20160724 22:38:09< vultraz> . . .
20160724 22:38:11< loonycyborg> And I live in Russia, so..
20160724 22:38:17< lipkab> Haha.
20160724 22:38:19< vultraz> I think we're getting into the conversation we wanted to avoid
20160724 22:38:43< celmin> Maybe he's funny, but that doesn't make him a good president.
20160724 22:39:07< loonycyborg> same applies to klinton, she's annoying but it doesn't make her a good president :P
20160724 22:39:38< celmin> No, but she doesn't have as many things against her as Trump does.
20160724 22:40:01< loonycyborg> anyway, I'm stockpiling popcorn hoping trump wins
20160724 22:40:29< shadowm> I'm sure it must seem funny if you live in a country that doesn't reside in the same continent as the U.S.
20160724 22:40:33< celmin> ^
20160724 22:40:51< shadowm> Or if your country doesn't otherwise tend to do whatever the U.S. does.
20160724 22:41:09< lipkab> Well, Russia is actually closer to the US than Chile.
20160724 22:41:10< shadowm> It's not so much about having an incompetent president as it is about having a toxic person as the figurehead of a nation.
20160724 22:41:23< shadowm> Not culturally.
20160724 22:41:50< zookeeper> uhhuh. the only thing worse than someone like clinton is an actual idiot
20160724 22:42:00< loonycyborg> It'll give Chile an opportunity to leave US's sphere of influence :P
20160724 22:42:23< celmin> And Trump is an actual idiot, thus worse than Clinton.
20160724 22:42:31< loonycyborg> I'm not sure
20160724 22:42:35< zookeeper> well that was obviously my point, yes :p
20160724 22:42:38< loonycyborg> who's more of an idiot among them
20160724 22:42:48< shadowm> loonycyborg: Yeah because that went so well for us last time.
20160724 22:43:04< loonycyborg> if they snubbed bernie for silly reasons they deserve trump
20160724 22:43:33< shadowm> God dammit.
20160724 22:43:38< vultraz> No one snubbed Bernie for silly reasons... he just didn't have enough of the popular vote.
20160724 22:43:46< loonycyborg> shadowm: I don't think US could pull of a coup in Chile again
20160724 22:43:46< zookeeper> none of us outside the US care that much about what the americans get as a result of their choice
20160724 22:43:53< zookeeper> we only care about what everyone else gets
20160724 22:43:56< loonycyborg> it's no longer an ideological issue for them
20160724 22:43:58< loonycyborg> they can ignore it
20160724 22:44:07< shadowm> loonycyborg: No but no-one would need the U.S. support for doing that anymore.
20160724 22:44:16< shadowm> Just look at fucking Venezuela.
20160724 22:44:19< vultraz> The Republican base is votes more than the Democratic one.
20160724 22:44:27< shadowm> We don't want that kind of disaster here again.
20160724 22:45:31< shadowm> The hard truth is that if you aren't on the same band as the majority of the western world your economy is fucked and so are your people.
20160724 22:45:41< loonycyborg> anyway, both US and britain have some problem
20160724 22:45:52< loonycyborg> their current gov doesn't have enough popular support
20160724 22:46:11< loonycyborg> so least offensive of them wins
20160724 22:46:22< loonycyborg> often random factors are in play
20160724 22:46:28< loonycyborg> people are dissatisfied
20160724 22:46:37< loonycyborg> and thus brexit and trump happen
20160724 22:46:46< loonycyborg> behold power of democracy
20160724 22:47:05< loonycyborg> At least russian government has a lot popular support atm
20160724 22:47:07< shadowm> So your solution is to make things worse?
20160724 22:47:22< loonycyborg> but I'm sure russia will end in same situation eventually
20160724 22:47:36< loonycyborg> It's not a solution
20160724 22:47:40< celmin> I still don't actually know what Brexit is.
20160724 22:47:42< lipkab> loonycyborg: Yeah, and absolutely no random factors in the election process :P
20160724 22:47:42< shadowm> People get pretty passionate about these things and make bad choices. That doesn't legitimize those choices.
20160724 22:48:01< loonycyborg> It's beyond my power to propose any solutions
20160724 22:48:02< DeFender1031> crap. this is exactly why I said we shouldn't continue the conversation. I'm sorry everyone! I didn't want to cause this.
20160724 22:48:19< celmin> It's probably my fault more than yours, honestly. >_>
20160724 22:48:20< loonycyborg> I can only enjoy the show
20160724 22:48:22< shadowm> Okay, I will leave now.
20160724 22:48:45< shadowm> It just pisses me off that some people apparently get a kick of things that in the present doesn't affect them directly.
20160724 22:48:51< shadowm> *out of
20160724 22:48:58< lipkab> loonycyborg: Does the government really that popular, by the way? I keep hearing that people love Putin but hate pretty much everyone else.
20160724 22:49:04< loonycyborg> so? you get kick out of russian situation too
20160724 22:49:13< shadowm> No I fucking don't.
20160724 22:49:29< zookeeper> eh? who does?
20160724 22:49:31< loonycyborg> otherwise you wouldn't make up stuff about economy
20160724 22:49:47< zookeeper> everyone outside of russia seems to think the situation in russia is pretty... ahem, bad
20160724 22:49:53< zookeeper> without getting a kick out of it, even
20160724 22:49:58< shadowm> I've not made stuff up about Russia's economy. I don't even know what goes on there.
20160724 22:50:10< loonycyborg> exactly
20160724 22:50:15< shadowm> There are a few things that piss me off about Russia but its economy isn't amongst them.
20160724 22:50:37< loonycyborg> the only point of economy
20160724 22:50:42< DeFender1031> celmin, nah, i'm the one who brought up the other election.
20160724 22:50:51< DeFender1031> (meaning, the non steam one)
20160724 22:50:55< celmin> True...
20160724 22:50:55< loonycyborg> is to ensure that resources are properly moved between consumers and producers
20160724 22:51:03< loonycyborg> and russian economy does that well
20160724 22:51:09< loonycyborg> and only that really matters
20160724 22:51:23< loonycyborg> nobody dies of hunger and stuff
20160724 22:51:28< loonycyborg> more like the other way around
20160724 22:51:46< loonycyborg> sanctions are the best thing that happened with russia
20160724 22:51:59< loonycyborg> they basically serve as protectionist measures
20160724 22:52:11< loonycyborg> benefiting local producers
20160724 22:52:21< loonycyborg> russian gov doesn't want sanctions go
20160724 22:53:34< loonycyborg> anyway
20160724 22:53:43< loonycyborg> they had to get russia in EU originally
20160724 22:53:57< loonycyborg> because it's basically yet another european nation
20160724 22:54:04< loonycyborg> like france and britain
20160724 22:54:15< loonycyborg> and one of the most important ones
20160724 22:54:28< loonycyborg> having same cultural roots
20160724 22:54:45< zookeeper> i still fail to see who's supposedly getting a kick out of bad things happening in russia
20160724 22:55:02< loonycyborg> instead they decided to continue cold war so NATO could justify its existence
20160724 22:55:20< loonycyborg> anyone who says that russian economy is ruined
20160724 22:55:29< loonycyborg> it's wishful thinking at best
20160724 22:55:38< loonycyborg> and I don't like anyone wishing that
20160724 22:55:48< celmin> zookeeper: I think he was accusing the person who said "Okay, I will leave now"
20160724 22:55:54 * celmin avoids pinging him
20160724 22:56:07< celmin> Also, at this point it sounds like it's just loonycyborg ranting...
20160724 22:56:08< celmin> >_>
20160724 22:57:08< DeFender1031> so we all agree that we're going to vote for wesnoth, right?
20160724 22:57:23< zookeeper> yeah i can't see where anyone said that.
20160724 22:57:26 * zookeeper voted
20160724 22:57:58< celmin> I voted before it was even announced on Twitter. >_>
20160724 22:58:41< DeFender1031> yeah! wesnoth will fix the economy! wesnoth will make open source gaming great again! Wesnoth for politics!
20160724 22:58:53< zookeeper> capture more villages
20160724 22:58:54< celmin> Ha ha
20160724 22:59:04< zookeeper> that'll fix the economy
20160724 22:59:13< celmin> Hehe
20160724 22:59:48< zookeeper> oh and don't advance anyone. if everyone's a peasant, you get maximum income.
20160724 23:00:07< zookeeper> clearly, the way to economic success
20160724 23:00:13< DeFender1031> zookeeper, meh, we can fix the economy more simply by just calling [gold] a lot.
20160724 23:00:38< celmin> Heh.
20160724 23:00:43< zookeeper> luckily, i too was supposed to leave already...
20160724 23:00:50< lipkab> That will fire up inflation.
20160724 23:00:58< DeFender1031> actually, that reminds me of something that struck me when I first played but I had gotten so used to by the time I showed up here that I forgot to ask
20160724 23:01:41< DeFender1031> When I first played and the tutorial told me about support and upkeep and such, I had assumed that your units would start to desert if you ran out of money.
20160724 23:02:03< DeFender1031> but they don't. you just fall into negative and get no carryover
20160724 23:03:02< celmin> Interesting idea.
20160724 23:03:09< DeFender1031> And I realized that if a scenario is the last one or otherwise has no gold carryover, there's no reason not to blow your entire stash on units
20160724 23:03:39< DeFender1031> so what if you end up with -1000 by the time the scenario is over? doesn't hurt you.
20160724 23:04:39< DeFender1031> celmin, if you really think so, then I have some ideas for how to go about implementing it, though some things would need discussion.
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20160724 23:05:44< DeFender1031> At the time, I assumed it'd pick randomly, but it probably makes more sense that at the start of some turn where you can't pay, you're provided with a dialog requiring you to select enough units to let go to bring you back into what you can pay
20160724 23:05:45< celmin> I was thinking it could be cool in a campaign somewhere, rather than suggesting it be implemented into the engine… though it could also be done as a [modification].
20160724 23:05:53< DeFender1031> ah
20160724 23:05:55< DeFender1031> interesting
20160724 23:06:33< DeFender1031> also, there's the question of whether deserters go back into recall or whether they're just gone.
20160724 23:07:04< celmin> A dialog like that sounds pretty complicated; I wonder if it could be done in Lua.
20160724 23:07:33< celmin> …well, actually, at the moment it probably can't be done well since I don't think the unit preview pane widget is exposed to Lua. (Though I could be wrong.)
20160724 23:07:33< DeFender1031> the former makes it that you can essentially auto-heal gravely wounded units, but the latter would be very frustrating for a player who suddenly finds himself having to dismiss veteran troops.
20160724 23:08:18< DeFender1031> celmin, i don't recall seeing the UPP in lua, though it wouldn't be hard for someone to reimplement a UPP in lua with the necessary callbacks and such to update it.
20160724 23:08:29< celmin> Yeah, maybe.
20160724 23:08:47< celmin> It's composed of smaller widgets that are all exposed, so I guess you could do it.
20160724 23:09:13< celmin> Actually, the existing recall dialog is perfect for that purpose.
20160724 23:09:24< celmin> I think.
20160724 23:09:27< DeFender1031> the reason i might suggest it on the engine level though is because otherwise, there's no point in doing unit management on last scenarios or scenarios with no carryover.
20160724 23:09:52< DeFender1031> and yes, i'd imagine such a dialog would look very similar to the current recall list.
20160724 23:12:09< DeFender1031> though, showing only units in the field rather than on recall, and even then only units with an upkeep of 1 or more.
20160724 23:13:25< DeFender1031> you could even add desertion events...
20160724 23:14:33< DeFender1031> anyway, it's an interesting idea to think about.
20160724 23:14:38< DeFender1031> i'm off to bed.
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20160724 23:16:42< celmin> I suppose implementing it on the engine level is certainly a possibilty, though I'd want it optional.
20160724 23:17:34< DeFender1031> perhaps it could be defined on the scenario level? like "desertion=yes" (default no for backwards-compat)?
20160724 23:17:45< celmin> Maybe.
20160724 23:19:06< DeFender1031> there could also be a desertion cutoff... meaning, you set, say, -100, and you can go that much into the red before they start to desert
20160724 23:19:35< DeFender1031> that way you can give a buffer where if you're about to capture a village and bring your income back up, you won't lose units yet.
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 25 00:00:40 2016