--- Log opened Tue Aug 02 00:00:09 2016
20160802 00:45:23-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@63-152-109-79.cdrr.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160802 00:46:47-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@63-152-109-79.cdrr.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 00:58:24-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160802 01:01:19-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 02:02:34-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d45b77.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 02:04:51-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20160802 02:07:03-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d41f6f.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20160802 02:16:35-!- iatyr [~iatyr@47-35-152-54.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160802 02:19:12-!- iatyr [~iatyr@47-35-152-54.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 02:29:03-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The minstrel departs, to spread the music to the masses!]
20160802 02:59:20-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20160802 03:13:47-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160802 03:13:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 03:37:32-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20160802 04:24:40-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc]
20160802 04:25:58-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 04:28:07-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Client Quit]
20160802 04:31:27-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 04:59:55-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 05:27:17-!- iatyr [~iatyr@47-35-152-54.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160802 05:29:22-!- iwaim__ [~iwaim@2001:2c0:40e:2002:0:4:14:80] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160802 05:31:54-!- iwaim__ [~iwaim@2001:2c0:40e:2002:0:4:14:80] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 05:32:40-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
20160802 05:53:00-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160802 05:54:05-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 06:05:14-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160802 06:05:52-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 06:36:51-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F60621EC175075870C55BC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 06:41:03-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20160802 07:24:19-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:06:32-!- zookeeper_ [~lmsnie@37.35.27.57] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:09:20-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20160802 08:15:52-!- VultCave [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:17:44-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@63-152-109-79.cdrr.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160802 08:18:28-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@63-152-109-79.cdrr.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:18:45-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20160802 08:18:46-!- VultCave is now known as vultraz
20160802 08:19:54-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has quit [Changing host]
20160802 08:19:54-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:20:17-!- Blukunfando [~bkf@82.158.13.45.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20160802 08:21:10-!- hay207_ [~hay207@41.34.15.53] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:21:13-!- hay207 [~hay207@41.34.15.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160802 08:31:51-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@2001:44b8:254:3200:6830:3bc5:2e29:c8b3] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:34:37-!- Blukunfando [~bkf@82.158.13.45.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:36:11-!- zookeeper_ is now known as zookeeper
20160802 08:36:12-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@37.35.27.57] has quit [Changing host]
20160802 08:36:12-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 08:51:53-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F60621EC175075870C55BC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160802 08:55:17-!- shurnormal [~uxio@unaffiliated/ushiu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20160802 08:57:25-!- shurnormal [~uxio@unaffiliated/ushiu] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 09:24:50-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 09:26:22-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F6062595D26C148A25AC730.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 09:38:06-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD036012029236.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160802 09:43:16-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD036012026062.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 09:51:53-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: http://www.kvirc.net/ 4.9.1 Aria]
20160802 09:57:26-!- ideuler [~textual@0.213.62.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 10:06:34-!- trolling [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 10:09:51-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20160802 10:12:42-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 10:25:20-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 10:33:38-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 10:33:59-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@2001:44b8:254:3200:6830:3bc5:2e29:c8b3] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160802 10:34:44-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@2001:44b8:254:3200:d0ed:1257:3fc0:b138] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 10:51:38-!- trolling [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has quit [Quit: The Game]
20160802 10:53:35-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: http://www.kvirc.net/ 4.9.1 Aria]
20160802 10:57:49-!- shurnormal [~uxio@unaffiliated/ushiu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20160802 10:58:13-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV]
20160802 10:58:39-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 10:58:46-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160802 10:59:10-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 10:59:30-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20160802 11:12:53-!- shurnormal [~uxio@unaffiliated/ushiu] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 11:32:43-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F6062595D26C148A25AC730.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160802 11:37:05-!- ideuler [~textual@0.213.62.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
20160802 11:50:30-!- VultCave [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 11:51:34-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20160802 11:54:15-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 11:55:11-!- VultCave [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20160802 12:15:14-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F6062591855A562E88131C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 12:16:17-!- ideuler [~textual@0.213.62.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 12:18:51-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@2001:44b8:254:3200:d0ed:1257:3fc0:b138] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160802 12:22:36-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20160802 12:24:02-!- kalfat [~kalfat@pc7-236.btk.net.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 12:27:12-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 12:53:23-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 12:58:03-!- ideuler [~textual@0.213.62.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
20160802 13:04:51-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20160802 13:05:56-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 13:35:04-!- TC02 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20160802 13:36:41-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F6062591855A562E88131C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160802 13:37:22< mattsc> hi zookeeper
20160802 13:38:17< mattsc> Question: let’s say the enemy had a Highwayman 1XP from leveling and you could attack with either a Skeleton that has a medium chance to die in the attack, or with a Banebow with the ranged attack, which one would you choose?
20160802 13:38:33< mattsc> I think the answer is: it depends.
20160802 13:39:23< mattsc> If I had lots of units, I might go for the Skeleton, as I can then follow up with some real damage by the Banebow.
20160802 13:40:02< mattsc> If the situation were resource starved, I’d probably not risk losing the skeleton.
20160802 13:41:26< mattsc> That’s getting too complicated for the high-XP-attack AI rating though, so I think I’ll just come up with a semi-reasonable weighting of damage done and received.
20160802 14:06:33< zookeeper> mattsc, yeah i'd depend, but i think there's basically no harm in choosing the banebow by virtue of it having no CTD
20160802 14:06:37< zookeeper> s/i'd/it'd
20160802 14:08:58< zookeeper> but i doubt it'd be a problem if the AI might choose the skeleton instead because of some weighting
20160802 14:10:25< mattsc> zookeeper: yeah; in fact if it sometimes chose the skeleton and sometimes the banebow, that would add a bit more unpredictability
20160802 14:11:18< zookeeper> true
20160802 14:11:18< mattsc> Btw, this is taking a bit longer than I expected, not because of the rating itself, but because I am trying to make the code as efficient as possible.
20160802 14:12:17< mattsc> I should be able to send you a first version soon though.
20160802 14:12:33< mattsc> Do you have a working version of 1.13.5 yet?
20160802 14:13:58< zookeeper> nope
20160802 14:14:54< zookeeper> ah, looks like the windows installer exists already, i can grab that already...
20160802 14:15:26< zookeeper> it's wierd how often it takes me no longer than a few seconds to forget i already used a word in the previous sentence
20160802 14:16:27< mattsc> I think that happens to all of us...
20160802 14:16:55< mattsc> zookeeper: and after you grab the new version, you can test with assassin AI while I continue working on this  ;-)
20160802 14:17:52-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F606259A5EBAA652DC5503C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 14:23:25-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 14:38:25< mattsc> zookeeper: so with my current rating scheme, the AI would choose the Banebow; same if I do the same setup against a bandit
20160802 14:39:00< mattsc> However, if I replace the skeleton by a grunt (and keep the banebow), the AI chooses the grunt against the bandit and the banebow against the highwayman
20160802 14:39:28< mattsc> and all of that gets shuffled around a bit when the units are not in full health
20160802 14:39:39< mattsc> I think that’s pretty cool.  
20160802 14:40:48< zookeeper> yeah sounds good
20160802 14:49:17< DeFender> mattsc, seems to me that if they're both going to end up attacking anyway, you go for the skeleton first, as it'll have less chance to die before the advancement than after.
20160802 14:51:14< mattsc> DeFender: in principle yes, but …
20160802 14:51:31< mattsc> … the skeleton might be out of reach if it does not attack
20160802 14:51:42< DeFender> not what i meant
20160802 14:51:47< mattsc> … the banebow will have a higher chance of dying also
20160802 14:51:51< DeFender> i meant if the ai is going to end up using both anyway
20160802 14:52:02< mattsc> DeFender: oh, right
20160802 14:52:20< mattsc> it _might_ not though, depending on the setting of aggression
20160802 14:52:39< mattsc> Also, a Highwayman actually doesn’t level up to anything stronger…
20160802 14:53:08< DeFender> meaning, if it's a matter of "attack with banebow only" vs. "attack with skeleton then banebow" then that's a different thing than "attack with banebow followed by skeleton" vs. "attack with skeleton followed by banebow"
20160802 14:53:09< mattsc> I’m not disagreeing with you, in principle, I am just saying that there are many exceptions when a human player might go for the banebow after all
20160802 14:53:32< mattsc> ragreed
20160802 14:53:44< DeFender> true, but if it's already a max level unit, then the distinction matters even less.
20160802 14:53:44< mattsc> but I am not rewriting the full attack code
20160802 14:53:59< DeFender> right
20160802 14:54:15< mattsc> I am just adding single-unit attacks to force leveling up of enemy units (in some cases)
20160802 14:54:28< DeFender> i guess what i'm saying is that if the skeleton is going to end up attacking either way, better for it to attack before the advancement than after.
20160802 14:54:41< zookeeper> yeah, and frankly the exact details of which unit performs the attack is peanuts compared to the problem it solves
20160802 14:54:52< DeFender> which is?
20160802 14:54:54< mattsc> DeFender: yes, agreed
20160802 14:55:10< mattsc> but my code does not know whether the skeleton attacks afterward or not
20160802 14:55:54< DeFender> true, but i assume there are available mathematical properties that will end up at a reasonable approximation of such behavior, no?
20160802 14:56:14< DeFender> zookeeper, what do you mean by "the problem it solves"?
20160802 14:56:48< mattsc> DeFender: sure; but it would be a lot of effort to do that for very little gain
20160802 14:57:34< DeFender> mm
20160802 14:58:08< DeFender> heuristics are messy.
20160802 14:58:09< mattsc> so, if somebody wanted to add that, I’m all for it, but I, at least for the time being, am not going to do so for a very small improvement in behavior of what is relatively rarely occurring case anyway
20160802 14:58:18< mattsc> no offense intended or taken here, btw  :)
20160802 14:59:02< mattsc> DeFender: the problem zookeeper’s referring to is enabling a player to take advantage of a bug in the AI code: specifically, being able to block key parts of the map with units 1 XP from leveling
20160802 14:59:40< mattsc> … even when the AI has plenty of units to brute force its way through after it forced leveling of the unit
20160802 14:59:51< DeFender> none taken or intended.
20160802 15:00:10< DeFender> ah
20160802 15:00:11< mattsc> DeFender: good, I didn’t think so, just wanted to make sure
20160802 15:00:35< mattsc> I like the comments, I am just explaining why I am too “lazy” to do what you are suggesting  :P
20160802 15:01:00< DeFender> and i agree with all of your conclusions. Like I said, heuristics is messy.
20160802 15:01:43< mattsc> indeed; and sometimes something very simple gives a good approximation of an “intelligent AI” that’s good enough for most intents and purposes
20160802 15:01:49< DeFender> right
20160802 15:01:55< mattsc> Pacman is a great example of that
20160802 15:02:03< DeFender> i tend to actually hate writing heuristic code myself
20160802 15:02:21< DeFender> mattsc, true, though people exploit those patterns all the time.
20160802 15:03:16< mattsc> yes — and that’s why we’re talking about putting this “high-xp-attack” code into Wesnoth
20160802 15:03:30< DeFender> i was referring to pacman specifically
20160802 15:03:33< DeFender> but yes
20160802 15:03:40< mattsc> Oh, ok.  :)
20160802 15:03:57< DeFender> if your AI has an exploitable pattern which is not a reasonable behavior, good idea to fix it if possible.
20160802 15:04:44< mattsc> DeFender: just fyi, I am also working on a different AI that completely replaces the existing Wesnoth AI.  In that one, I could do things like you suggest.
20160802 15:04:54< DeFender> ooh, that's fun
20160802 15:05:05< mattsc> But I don’t think I’ll ever get that to the point where it could replace the wesnoth AI in general
20160802 15:05:14< DeFender> :/
20160802 15:05:23< mattsc> however, it does a decent job on the Freelands MP map so far.
20160802 15:06:04< mattsc> It has a >98% win rate against the default AI at the moment, even when the default AI has up to 50% more gold
20160802 15:06:21< mattsc> but it has really problems against human players and I have been stuck on how to solve those for a long time.
20160802 15:06:30< mattsc> *real problems
20160802 15:09:09< mattsc> I’ll be back in ~30 min
20160802 15:09:11-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc]
20160802 15:10:11-!- ideuler [~textual@0.213.62.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 15:36:39-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 15:39:05-!- kalfat [~kalfat@pc7-236.btk.net.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160802 15:39:29< mattsc> DeFender, zookeeper: btw, in the above example, if the skeleton were a skeleton archer, or the banebow a draug, the AI would always choose the weaker unit for the first attack
20160802 15:39:42< mattsc> … except if it had a chance to kill the enemy with the stronger unit
20160802 15:42:21< celticminstrel> [Aug 02@10:52:39am] mattsc: Also, a Highwayman actually doesn’t level up to anything stronger…
20160802 15:42:22< celticminstrel> It sort of does - it levels up to a Highwayman with a bit more health. >_>
20160802 15:43:07-!- ggeneral [~ggeneral@nat58.opti.net.ua] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 15:43:59< DeFender> mattsc, before you left, I was going to say that yeah, an AI being able to reliably beat another AI is useful to see, but not always the best statistic for determining which one is better against a human.
20160802 15:46:25< mattsc> celticminstrel: right, but that does not make its attack on the skeleton do more damage
20160802 15:46:44< mattsc> DeFender: yes, absolutely
20160802 15:47:13< DeFender> mattsc, btw, since you seem to know how to do serious work with wesnoth AI stuff, I have a couple of things in the campaign I'm working on where I know I'm going to need some massive AI tweaks, and was wondering if I can come to you for help with that when the time comes.
20160802 15:47:36< celticminstrel> Ah, true.
20160802 15:47:45< DeFender> mattsc, celticminstrel just likes correcting when people misspeak.
20160802 15:47:48< mattsc> DeFender: absolutely; I like doing that sort of thing
20160802 15:48:24< celticminstrel> I'm considering turning the first scenario into a cutscene in my new campaign.
20160802 15:48:33< DeFender> mattsc, great! thanks! I know there are at least two places so far where I'll need it. One is in general, the other is a specific scenario. 
20160802 15:48:39< mattsc> DeFender: that’s okay, we (celmin and I) have done quite a bit of working on code together, we usually don’t offend each other too badly  ;)
20160802 15:49:30< DeFender> mattsc, I had assumed as much. I just still like pointing it out as a relatively recent member of the channel.
20160802 15:49:59< celticminstrel> Because currently it's just fighting through a map you've likely already seen to help a handful of allies with a new enemy.
20160802 15:50:13< DeFender> mattsc, I think it's clear that everyone here has the utmost respect for each other, newbie and veteran alike.
20160802 15:51:36< mattsc> DeFender: only thing is that there are times when I am not on irc, sometimes for several weeks in a row (because of work).  I do search the logs for my nick though, so make sure you use it.  Or you can drop me a forum PM, I get email notifications about those.
20160802 15:51:52< DeFender> celticminstrel, cutscenes are fun to make (I kinda like making them better than I like making playable scenarios...). You should see what I did with the opening cutscene of my campaign.
20160802 15:52:18< DeFender> mattsc, okay, thanks for letting me know.
20160802 15:52:25< celticminstrel> I thought your campaign wasn't released yet.
20160802 15:52:39< mattsc> DeFender: and yes, agreed on that too
20160802 15:52:40< DeFender> it's not.
20160802 15:52:51< celticminstrel> So I guess I can't see it then.
20160802 15:52:59< celticminstrel> Unless you wanted to upload a video of it or something.
20160802 15:53:24< celticminstrel> I imagine cutscenes can get away with putting their entire logic in the start event.
20160802 15:54:16< DeFender> mattsc, i was actually surprised by that when I first came here. Most IRC help channels i've been in tend to be hostile toward anyone not part of the cabal and give terse incomplete answers that don't actually address the real crux of a question. Here, on the other hand, everyone has been warm and friendly with a real sense of trying to build something.
20160802 15:55:35< DeFender> celticminstrel, i thought that was how cutscenes were always done? a series of actions in the start event ending with a victory with no bonus and full carryover.
20160802 15:55:59< celticminstrel> I've never actually done one.
20160802 15:56:11< DeFender> ah
20160802 15:56:34< DeFender> i could upload a video or send you a tarball of my WIP or something...
20160802 15:57:06< mattsc> DeFender: yeah, it’s a nice community; the occasional minor grumbling, but rarely ever anything serious
20160802 15:57:11-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F606259A5EBAA652DC5503C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20160802 15:57:18< celticminstrel> I don't think I need help with making one, if that's why you're offering.
20160802 15:57:20< mattsc> It’s one of the reasons why I have stayed around for as long as I have
20160802 15:58:09< DeFender> celticminstrel, nah, it was more just a little bit of "i'm super proud of what i have so far and want people to see it even though it's nowhere near finished"
20160802 15:58:49< DeFender> mattsc, indeed. I'd love to become a dev myself too if only i had the time to devote...
20160802 15:59:27< DeFender> i'm also not very good at participating on internet fora... i find it hard to find something in which to participate.
20160802 16:00:14< DeFender> facebook is easier, it has a big flashy notification when there's something new to see.
20160802 16:02:59< zookeeper> a curious achievement of the wesnoth community is how we've managed to de facto end religious/political argument threads in the off-topic forum without actually forbidding them. what other place can say the same? :p
20160802 16:06:11< Ravana_> they just moved to mp server
20160802 16:07:08< Ravana_> not very often but I occasionally notice
20160802 16:07:31< DeFender> zookeeper, how'd you manage to pull THAT one off?
20160802 16:08:09< zookeeper> magic pixie dust via ethernet
20160802 16:10:02< DeFender> ...kay.
20160802 16:11:33< zookeeper> can you imagine any other way?
20160802 16:13:36-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 16:13:38< DeFender> That's why I asked :P
20160802 16:15:30-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160802 16:16:35-!- ggeneral [~ggeneral@nat58.opti.net.ua] has left #wesnoth []
20160802 16:37:16-!- iatyr [~iatyr@47-35-152-54.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 16:47:55-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 16:56:57-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 17:14:13-!- ideuler [~textual@0.213.62.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Chakalaka.]
20160802 17:16:07-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 17:17:37-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV]
20160802 17:28:25-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20160802 17:40:40-!- demok [~o@178.62.242.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160802 17:43:03-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 17:48:23-!- demok [~o@178.62.242.27] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 18:14:57-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: http://www.kvirc.net/ 4.9.1 Aria]
20160802 18:35:09-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 18:50:37-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160802 19:38:18-!- J1sy [~jones@41.49.22.225] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 19:39:36< J1sy> Help cant play the game 
20160802 19:41:03< DeFender> It's difficult to diagnose a problem without any information...
20160802 19:42:01< J1sy> I use xp ssp3
20160802 19:42:05< Polsaker> hey J1sy
20160802 19:43:00< J1sy> Hey polsaker you disappeared
20160802 19:43:22< Polsaker> I should be the one saying that
20160802 19:43:42< J1sy> Help a brother out
20160802 19:44:08< Polsaker> J1sy: Do you get any error when trying to launch wesnoth? What's your problem? What version are you using?
20160802 19:44:13< vultraz> No one can help you if you don't provide info.
20160802 19:44:24< Polsaker> ^
20160802 19:45:02< J1sy> Ok the email address to support
20160802 19:46:15< Polsaker> Just say your problem on this channel. It'll be easier to get help
20160802 19:46:58< J1sy> I launch and play 1 turn and then it  hangs
20160802 19:48:44< J1sy> V1.12.6
20160802 19:50:02< Polsaker> Campaign? Multiplayer?
20160802 19:50:10< J1sy> I really want to play it
20160802 19:50:28< J1sy> Campaign
20160802 19:50:38< Polsaker> I had the same problem on a third party campaign, but it was just hanging for a few seconds on a low-end computer (I guess it was the AI "thinking")
20160802 19:52:21< J1sy> When it hangs it opens  a debugging program
20160802 19:56:52< J1sy> Its annoying to start it in high hope and then bang it stops
20160802 19:57:44 * celticminstrel notes that "hangs" usually means "won't respond to any input".
20160802 20:00:36< J1sy> Yeah and it ask me to debug or close
20160802 20:01:32< celticminstrel> That's what I would call a crash, not a hang.
20160802 20:02:38< J1sy> It crashes then
20160802 20:02:57< celticminstrel> I wonder if anything useful would happen if you click debug...
20160802 20:05:23< J1sy> Nothing happens
20160802 20:05:41< celticminstrel> Anything like a Details button?
20160802 20:08:52< J1sy> Even if i dnt press a button, just by reading the help section it crashes 
20160802 20:09:06< celticminstrel> :|
20160802 20:10:15< DeFender> J1sy, what campaign?
20160802 20:10:44< J1sy> The 1st one
20160802 20:10:52< celticminstrel> Please name it.
20160802 20:11:36< Polsaker> heir to the throne?
20160802 20:12:14< celticminstrel> And WinXP, huh...
20160802 20:13:34< J1sy> Windows XP SSP3
20160802 20:14:06< J1sy> Yeah heir to throne
20160802 20:17:41< J1sy> The stderr says we missed an event
20160802 20:22:23< DeFender> what do you mean by "missed an event"?
20160802 20:22:51< DeFender> it would probably be easier if you were to paste actual error messages rather than just describing them
20160802 20:22:54< celticminstrel> That's just an innocuous warning that the game often prints to stderr.
20160802 20:23:18< celticminstrel> It means (for example) that the game noticed that the mouse is down when it didn't receive the mousedown event.
20160802 20:24:48< J1sy> I am programmer in training ,so
20160802 20:26:04< Ravana_> do you have wesnoth sounds on?
20160802 20:26:23< J1sy> Yup
20160802 20:26:31< Ravana_> try without
20160802 20:27:04< Ravana_> sounds just like https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44337&p=598979&hilit=crash+sound+xp#p598979
20160802 20:29:48< J1sy> It says  wesnoth.exe has encountered an error and need to close
20160802 20:31:21< J1sy> Error signature :  Offset:0001a009
20160802 20:57:16-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@d0017-2-88-172-31-68.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV]
20160802 20:57:36< J1sy> Thank Ravana_
20160802 20:58:32< celticminstrel> So it works without sounds?
20160802 20:59:09< J1sy> Still testing
20160802 21:03:39< J1sy> celticminstrel post a working link
20160802 21:03:51< celticminstrel> ?
20160802 21:07:34-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 21:40:54-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160802 21:59:07-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 22:01:33< J1sy> Ill be back should i see a problem
20160802 22:01:41-!- J1sy [~jones@41.49.22.225] has quit [Quit: Used -={[SamuraiIRCv.Eng] By : khensy [http://khensy.jw.lt/ ]}=-]
20160802 22:06:26-!- Samual [~Samual@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20160802 22:10:53-!- Samual [~Samual@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 22:16:49-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20160802 22:28:28-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 22:30:34-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.]
20160802 22:41:17-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20160802 22:55:48-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20160802 23:22:18-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 23:29:15-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20160802 23:40:46-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth
20160802 23:44:01< janebot> wesnoth: Is there any campaign where i can play as The Aragwaithi ? (by /u/ISawUOLwreckingTSM) https://redd.it/4vvkzm
--- Log closed Wed Aug 03 00:00:15 2016