--- Log opened Tue Aug 09 00:00:40 2016 20160809 00:20:15-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@2001:44b8:254:3200:119f:1e96:66ea:c790] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 00:29:15-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@2001:44b8:254:3200:119f:1e96:66ea:c790] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20160809 00:29:39-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@2001:44b8:254:3200:3801:7e55:9c62:35d1] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 02:06:43-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20160809 02:07:51-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 02:16:20-!- cyphase_eviltwin [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 02:52:48-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d41350.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 02:56:33-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d4658e.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20160809 03:38:34-!- DMG-LP [~damage@pool-108-29-130-218.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 04:01:38-!- iatyr [~iatyr@47-35-152-54.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20160809 04:15:18-!- DMG-LP [~damage@pool-108-29-130-218.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20160809 04:16:27< hay207> Good morning 20160809 04:28:46< hay207> As regarding adding statistics to my map, 20160809 04:29:01< hay207> will this code work? 20160809 04:29:08< hay207> http://pastebin.com/qJmw0DQ1 20160809 04:29:35< hay207> What it does/ want to do is 20160809 04:30:21< hay207> give a group of units from side 4 coming from these hexes an id, then 20160809 04:31:24< hay207> use this id in a moveto event, and 20160809 04:31:48< hay207> finally add 1 to the id's variable 20160809 04:34:14< hay207> In map, there is ai=side4 spawning from 3 different locations, all going to a middle hex =16,14 20160809 04:35:20< hay207> i want to calculate the number of enemies that got through a player from his side and reached middle hex\ 20160809 04:37:24< hay207> Is there any point unclear ? 20160809 04:44:51< celticminstrel> moveto won't fire if a unit moves across that hex in a single move. 20160809 04:45:06< celticminstrel> I think there's an "enter hex" or "exit hex" event though. 20160809 04:45:17< celticminstrel> Also, your indentation is terrible. 20160809 04:45:35< hay207> :) ok 20160809 04:46:29-!- cyphase_eviltwin is now known as cyphase 20160809 04:46:54< hay207> Is variable substition correct, placing a label on map? 20160809 04:47:46< celticminstrel> No. 20160809 04:48:03< celticminstrel> It's inside [set_variable]. It won't work that way. 20160809 04:48:50< hay207> Ok 20160809 04:53:59< hay207> there is a kill tag that applies to a unit reaching 16,14 middle hex, 20160809 04:54:19< hay207> will i still need enter hex ? 20160809 05:03:06< hay207> enter_hex=$x1,$y1,$x2,$y2 <--- is this how it is used 20160809 05:10:41-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 05:13:05-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20160809 05:15:11-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20160809 05:16:11-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 05:17:07< hay207> i fixed indentation 20160809 05:30:16< celticminstrel> Uhuh. 20160809 05:30:16-!- hay207 [~hay207@41.34.13.116] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20160809 05:30:53-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BFDB102457CCB98A788A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 05:37:23-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 05:38:17-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 05:45:05-!- hay207 [~hay207@41.34.13.116] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 06:09:46-!- Glen_ [62f073a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.240.115.168] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 06:19:22-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai] 20160809 06:44:06-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV] 20160809 07:24:39-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 07:28:06-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 20160809 07:28:20-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BFDB102457CCB98A788A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20160809 07:29:34-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BF10102457CCB98A788A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 07:33:14-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 07:35:57-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 20160809 07:50:50-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20160809 07:53:53< Kwandulin> Okay, I got a side's leader with the zone_guardian micro ai. The leader's keep is inside the zone he is guarding, yet he doesn't seem to care about recruing at all. How would I make him do that? I tried playing around with the ca_score, but I don't get it to work. 20160809 08:15:06-!- celmin|sleep [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20160809 08:17:20< DeFender1031> I thought leaders always went for the keep as highest priority 20160809 08:18:58< Kwandulin> That's what I also expected 20160809 08:22:49-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: http://www.kvirc.net/ 4.9.1 Aria] 20160809 08:38:03< DeFender1031> though, that too may have its own priority value... 20160809 08:38:22< DeFender1031> you may have to try setting a lower ca_score 20160809 08:38:27< DeFender1031> oh 20160809 08:38:31< DeFender1031> you already said you did 20160809 08:38:44< DeFender1031> well then, i'm out of my depth. 20160809 08:49:17< nore> Hm, does someone know if victory events are triggered as well for observers in a multiplayer campaign? 20160809 08:50:18< nore> If they are not, couldn't that cause OOS errors for that observer? 20160809 09:01:08< DeFender1031> pretty sure they are 20160809 09:01:18< DeFender1031> check the link i sent yesterday 20160809 09:01:32< DeFender1031> ah 20160809 09:01:33< DeFender1031> no 20160809 09:01:36< DeFender1031> they are not 20160809 09:01:46< DeFender1031> yep, that'd be a problem alright. 20160809 09:03:31< DeFender1031> speaking as someone who's familiar with code and knows how he would write the engine if writing it himself but not familiar with wesnoth's actual code, there really isn't any reason why there should be anything that doesn't sync. 20160809 09:12:43< nore> Well, it was said the rationale for victory events was that can depend on the player 20160809 09:12:48< nore> But my opinion on it is that these should be synced as well, and if you want something not to be synced, then precise that explicitely 20160809 09:13:15< nore> It could cause some backwards compatibility problems, though 20160809 09:14:47< DeFender1031> back-compat could be solved by just adding a "synchs" attribute and having it default to whatever the old behavior was. 20160809 09:16:01< DeFender1031> the problem more likely is the codebase. I expect it's a mess and that the network code doesn't have the necessary infrastructure to handle passing those events properly (but again, this is just me theorizing, as I know 0 about the actual codebase) 20160809 09:17:05< nore> (What is the backwards compatibility policy of wesnoth, btw?) 20160809 09:21:02< nore> Well, I might have a look at it then 20160809 09:24:59< DeFender1031> I don't actually know, but I think they try to keep things as compatible as possible unless there's a compelling reason not to (such as a complete change in the way something works). Even then, they seem to keep the old method around for a little while as deprecated. Mostly, the same as any other reasonable backwards compatibily policy. 20160809 09:28:19-!- vincent_c [~bip@vcheng.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20160809 09:29:39< nore> Yeah, that's the kind of policy I would expect 20160809 09:32:02-!- Glen_ [62f073a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.240.115.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20160809 09:38:55-!- vincent_c [~bip@vcheng.org] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 09:43:09-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 09:44:26< hay207> Hi, i want to give an id to units/waves coming from specified hexes 20160809 10:06:41-!- vincent_c [~bip@vcheng.org] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 20160809 10:06:48-!- coproduit [~coproduit@hott.coq.sexy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20160809 10:07:12-!- vincent_c [~bip@vcheng.org] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 10:11:18-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 10:11:37< hay207> How to give a variable an id ? 20160809 10:18:42< DeFender1031> what? 20160809 10:18:54< DeFender1031> you mean give a unit an id? 20160809 10:18:58< DeFender1031> units already have an id 20160809 10:19:09< hay207> no, a variable 20160809 10:19:13< DeFender1031> huh? 20160809 10:19:20< DeFender1031> a variable stores data 20160809 10:19:28< DeFender1031> you can have several variables of different names 20160809 10:19:39< DeFender1031> those names can be thought of as their id. 20160809 10:19:46< DeFender1031> beyond that, i haven't a clue what you might be asking. 20160809 10:21:32< hay207> i want to apply filter to a variable 20160809 10:21:57< DeFender1031> i'm not sure i understand what that means 20160809 10:23:54-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BF10102457CCB98A788A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20160809 10:23:59< DeFender1031> filters apply to units, locations, attacks, terrain... variables are just data. since you're the one defining them, you control them completely and know what they are and what they contain. The only reason for a filter is for things outside the control of your own code that you want to get information from. 20160809 10:27:21< hay207> So, filters apply to values? 20160809 10:28:07< DeFender1031> what? 20160809 10:29:44< DeFender1031> filters are concepts which apply to certain tags that operate on in-game entities. Tags which operate on units will have Unit Filter semantics. Tags that operate on locations will have Location Filter semantics. 20160809 10:30:08< DeFender1031> Filters are all about narrowing a subset of in-game entities. 20160809 10:31:02< DeFender1031> Variables defined in WML simply store data you ALREADY HAVE. (Often obtained by using a filter.) 20160809 10:31:28< DeFender1031> but once data is in a variable, a filter no longer makes much sense, as you can work with the data directly from that point. 20160809 10:31:36< DeFender1031> do you follow? 20160809 10:33:24-!- coproduit [~coproduit@hott.coq.sexy] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 10:34:24< hay207> Sorry, busy right now 20160809 10:34:44< hay207> i ll read later 20160809 11:05:42-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BF103885105974259480.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 11:21:29< hay207> Yes, i follow 20160809 11:38:56-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV] 20160809 11:44:07< hay207> How to use enter_hex tag? 20160809 11:45:47< hay207> enter_hex key 20160809 11:45:51< hay207> sorry 20160809 11:46:07< hay207> under [event] 20160809 11:54:25< zookeeper> it says right there in the wiki what it does. 20160809 11:57:59< hay207> But no example on how to use 20160809 11:59:19< DeFender1031> hay207, do you understand how to use events in general? 20160809 12:00:12< hay207> Yes , 20160809 12:01:23< DeFender1031> So then why are you confused about how to use the enter_hex event specifically? 20160809 12:01:51< DeFender1031> the enter_hex event triggers when a unit enters a hex during movement, and executes whatever actions you put inside it. 20160809 12:02:03< DeFender1031> Just like any other event. 20160809 12:04:24< hay207> because it has 2 parameters x1,y1 hex entered, and x2,y2 hex just exited 20160809 12:04:44< DeFender1031> those aren't parameters, they're predefined variables within the event 20160809 12:05:04< hay207> Ok 20160809 12:06:19< DeFender1031> and yes, $x1 will contain the x coordinate value of the hex which was entered, $y1 will contain the y coordinate value of the hex entered. $x2 will contain the x coordinate value of the hex just exited, and $y2 will contain the y coordinate value of the hex just exited. Using those four values, you can tell where the unit moved from and where they're moving to. 20160809 12:06:41< DeFender1031> i'm not sure why this should be confusing. 20160809 12:07:36< hay207> i understand, just want an example on how it's used 20160809 12:11:15< DeFender1031> used to do what? 20160809 12:11:19< nore> hay207: you can look at the second scenario of Legend of Wesmere if you want an example of code that uses this event 20160809 12:11:23< DeFender1031> you use them like you'd use any other variable 20160809 12:12:05< hay207> Ok, i 'll look at example, thanks 20160809 12:38:46< hay207> ok, saw OLURFS_LAND , macro 20160809 12:39:09< hay207> x=x1-x2 20160809 12:39:16< hay207> y=y1-y2 20160809 12:39:26< DeFender1031> huh? 20160809 12:39:35< zookeeper> there is no x=x1-x2 anywhere. 20160809 12:39:40< zookeeper> don't lie 20160809 12:40:33< hay207> x=20-24 20160809 12:40:52< zookeeper> that's more like it 20160809 12:41:07< hay207> see, i don't lie 20160809 12:41:39< hay207> well , so 20 is x1, and 24 is x2 ? 20160809 12:42:17< zookeeper> depends on what you mean by "is" 20160809 12:42:51< hay207> 20 is enter hex, 24 exit hex 20160809 12:44:36< zookeeper> however you're thinking, it's wrong. what you're saying makes no sense. 20160809 12:46:26-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 12:56:03< hay207> So, what does this mean: x=20-24,19-30 20160809 12:56:09-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 12:56:57< zookeeper> it means "any location that has x coordinate ranging from 20 to 24, or from 19 to 30" 20160809 13:10:32-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20160809 13:10:38-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 13:43:04< Kwandulin> zookeeper: any progress on the far south map? 20160809 13:43:57< zookeeper> ah, not yet. maybe i should work on that now... 20160809 13:44:54< Kwandulin> take your time 20160809 13:56:47-!- salluc69 [~salluc69@95.236.195.163] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 14:08:26< woseshaman> I wonder, is there or has there ever been a campaign for the steelhive faction? 20160809 14:10:17< DeFender1031> steelhive? is that in core? 20160809 14:11:19< woseshaman> nah it's only in ageless era right now 20160809 14:11:34< woseshaman> but some of the descriptions of the units make it seem like there is a campaign for them 20160809 14:14:15< DeFender1031> oh, sorry, I assumed your question was asking whether there's a mainline campaign for them :P 20160809 14:14:35< DeFender1031> Can't you search add-ons to see if they're used anywhere? 20160809 14:16:11< woseshaman> searching for the name on the addon server doesnt bring anything up 20160809 14:16:16< woseshaman> only ageless era 20160809 14:16:41< DeFender1031> hmm 20160809 14:16:48< woseshaman> pretty sure there was an addon with only steelhive faction back on 1.10 20160809 14:39:58-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20160809 14:44:59-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 14:56:35-!- DMG-WR0K [~damage@pool-108-29-130-218.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 15:00:06-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BF103885105974259480.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20160809 15:20:02< janebot> wesnoth: I need help making a new era... (by /u/EastGuardian) https://redd.it/4wwp8d 20160809 15:27:41< zookeeper> so he doesn't even think of removing that line and seeing if it works then? 20160809 15:33:55-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BF1065B62A0C2CCA72BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 15:34:26< zookeeper> (because that's exactly what he should do) 20160809 15:37:53< DeFender1031> zookeeper, after 10 years in the business, I have learned one thing. Users NEVER read error messages, no matter how clearly they explain the error. 20160809 15:38:22< zookeeper> yeah :| 20160809 15:40:01< DeFender1031> I've seen cases where a client literally sent tech support an email that said "I'm trying to log in but I keep getting a message that says 'incorrect username or password'. What's the problem?", tech support sent back "The message indicates that the username or password that you are trying is not correct", and the user responding with "Thanks! That fixed it." 20160809 15:40:17< zookeeper> uh huh. 20160809 15:40:39< DeFender1031> Like what? You don't trust the machine when it tells you what the problem is, you have to hear it from a human? 20160809 15:42:51< zookeeper> aside from edge cases like that, the cardinal sin is usually a mysterious lack of systemic thinking. 20160809 15:44:21< zookeeper> although i think in case of WML the problem people have is that they assume it's more complex than it really is 20160809 15:46:14< zookeeper> they think there's all sorts of magic going on, when in reality macros are the same as copy-pasting and you can put all your stuff in one file if you want to. 20160809 15:47:19< DeFender1031> zookeeper, that's true with most languages, i find. 20160809 15:48:56< DeFender1031> I used to tutor freshmen in C and C++ occasionally when I was in college. I've seen some wacky misunderstanding of macros, like trying to pass runtime variables to them and wondering why it wasn't working. 20160809 15:49:07< zookeeper> like, in the case of the endemic problem of trying to include the images dir, people think it's some kind of magic way of saying "hey game, i want to use these things here" that involves some complicated logic 20160809 15:50:09< DeFender1031> Unless you understand that there's a parse-time, a compile-time, and a run-time, and that none of the later steps can make use of an earlier one, you're going to have weird ideas. 20160809 15:50:19< zookeeper> yeah, true 20160809 15:50:28< DeFender1031> right. it's just "add this base path to the list of paths being searched for data" 20160809 15:50:49< zookeeper> include, not binary_path :p 20160809 15:50:56< DeFender1031> ohhh 20160809 15:51:03< DeFender1031> that's even simpler 20160809 15:51:20< DeFender1031> that's "copy the code from this path into this file at the current spot" 20160809 15:51:24< zookeeper> like how everyone and their mom has {~add-ons/mystuff/images} because... i don't even know 20160809 15:51:40< DeFender1031> wait what? 20160809 15:51:43< DeFender1031> oh 20160809 15:51:49-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 15:52:05< zookeeper> maybe i should run a search for that on the add-on server and see how many instances there actually are 20160809 15:52:11< zookeeper> because these newbies do get it from someplace 20160809 15:52:16< zookeeper> but for now i'm afk -> 20160809 15:52:19< DeFender1031> because people thing of it as "there's a magical thing i need to do to make sure the gam can use my files that involves putting all of my files in braces" yeah 20160809 15:53:15-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@2001:44b8:254:3200:3801:7e55:9c62:35d1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20160809 16:00:27-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai] 20160809 16:01:02 * celticminstrel wonders what we're talking abot. 20160809 16:01:05< celticminstrel> ^about 20160809 16:05:28< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, public logs are a wonderful thing 20160809 16:05:46< DeFender1031> it started with janebot announcing a reddit post 20160809 16:06:26< celticminstrel> I disagree. Public logs are an annoying thing. 20160809 16:08:57< celticminstrel> Seems the reddit post was deleted. 20160809 16:09:57< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, ah, it was basically "i'm making an era, and i'm getting a parse error on a certain line, why isn't it working? my add-on is in the right directory" 20160809 16:32:54-!- TC01 [~quassel@128.220.251.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20160809 16:44:10-!- TC02 is now known as TC01 20160809 16:47:17< zookeeper> celticminstrel, isn't it more annoying to have to ask people what the context is every time, instead of conveniently just reading what it is? 20160809 16:48:03< celticminstrel> Not really. 20160809 16:49:42< zookeeper> mystifying 20160809 16:50:03< celticminstrel> Many things are mystifying. 20160809 16:54:59-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 16:57:17-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:00:01-!- iatyr [~iatyr@47-35-152-54.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:08:07-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:09:43< zookeeper> on the 1.12 add-on server, 106 image directory includes 20160809 17:09:59< celmin> Wow. 20160809 17:10:02< zookeeper> including bizarre stuff like 1.12/ANLEra/images/images.cfg:{~add-ons/ANLEra/images/portraits/transparent} 20160809 17:10:13< zookeeper> ...so you had to make a special .cfg for all those includes? good grief. 20160809 17:11:18< zookeeper> (yes, it has an include for every image subdir it has) 20160809 17:12:13-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:18:40-!- DMG-LP [~damage@pool-108-29-130-218.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:21:48-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:32:22-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai] 20160809 17:35:11-!- Falcon` [falcon@79.133.214.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20160809 17:35:45-!- Falcon` [falcon@79.133.214.222] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:42:46-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@63-152-109-79.cdrr.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20160809 17:43:09-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:43:54-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@63-152-109-79.cdrr.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:45:51-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20160809 17:46:16-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 17:49:14< DeFender1031> zookeeper, I assume the engine is smart enough to ignore non-cfg files? 20160809 17:50:58< zookeeper> ignore in what way? 20160809 17:52:32< celmin> When including {like/this} I'm pretty sure it only loads .cfg files, yes. 20160809 17:52:55< zookeeper> yes 20160809 17:55:39-!- vincent_c [~bip@vcheng.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20160809 18:05:20-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BF1065B62A0C2CCA72BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20160809 18:13:37-!- hk238 [~kvirc@t224.ip7.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: http://www.kvirc.net/ 4.9.1 Aria] 20160809 18:15:05< DeFender1031> zookeeper, yes, what celmin said it what i meant. Meaning, it's not going to break add-ons that include that crap, it's just meaningless and misused. 20160809 18:21:59< zookeeper> yeah 20160809 18:26:39< DeFender1031> celmin, what's wrong with public logs? 20160809 18:28:51< celmin> They're just annoying because they give people an excuse to not answer questions. :P 20160809 18:29:04< celmin> And I can't really argue with that excuse either. 20160809 18:29:18< DeFender1031> oh. 20160809 18:51:59-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BF10F9532CCECB2B20D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 19:16:21-!- vincent_c [~bip@vcheng.org] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 19:23:24-!- TC01_ [~quassel@london.acm.jhu.edu] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 19:30:42< aeth> Is there a unit or village limitation in Wesnoth? 20160809 19:30:47< aeth> I think I might reach both 20160809 19:31:05< celmin> I think it's limited only by available memory. 20160809 19:31:34< aeth> well it's probably limited by the number type 20160809 19:31:52< celmin> By the what? 20160809 19:32:03< aeth> I've seen plenty of games have problems with numbers like 1024 or 2048 in areas where they didn't expect numbers to go that high 20160809 19:32:08< celmin> Oh. 20160809 19:32:10< aeth> I've already passed 1024 for villages 20160809 19:32:28< aeth> I may end up passing 2048 with both 20160809 19:32:39< celmin> Given that Wesnoth uses vectors, the limitation of the type should be ~4 billion on any modern computer, or even 2^64. 20160809 19:32:57< celmin> ~4 billion == 2^32 20160809 19:34:18< aeth> I have 388 NPCs placed already, I will probably place over 1024 20160809 19:34:47< aeth> lots of big fortifications on the west side of the river 20160809 19:35:14< aeth> I can't wait until someone takes the evil route and tries to take them all out 20160809 19:37:15< aeth> the populated/fortified part of the map might wind up with 600 or so, mostly lvl 1 20160809 19:37:22-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@50.36.241.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20160809 19:38:35-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@50.36.241.195] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 19:38:42< hay207> Hi, can someone revise this 20 line of code; http://pastebin.com/X295zstP 20160809 19:39:04< hay207> What it 's supposed to do: 20160809 19:39:16< celmin> For starters, swap the last two lines. 20160809 19:40:02< hay207> put set_label inside event 20160809 19:42:08< hay207> What it 's supposed to do: print a count label, of how many units from side4 move to that hex 20160809 19:42:36< hay207> What it actually does:i see no label 20160809 19:42:53< celmin> That's because you're never setting the label, because {SET_LABEL} is outside the event. 20160809 19:44:03< hay207> i tried too to put it inside event 20160809 19:44:52< hay207> will try something else 20160809 19:45:06< celmin> ... 20160809 19:45:35< celmin> Well, your event will only fire if the unit stops on that hex. It won't fire if a unit moves over the hex on its way to another hex. 20160809 19:46:59< hay207> Yes, 2 points there to clarify 20160809 19:47:13< hay207> first, the hex is occupied 20160809 19:47:49< hay207> second, a kill tag triggers when a unit moves to that hex 20160809 19:48:23< celmin> You've lost me completely now. 20160809 19:48:43< celmin> I thought you were going to clarify something, but instead you said some incomprehensible things with no clear relation. 20160809 19:53:12< hay207> hex occupied might affect moveto event, and kill tag assures no unit move across 20160809 19:53:40< Ravana_> if hex is occupied you can not move there 20160809 19:54:51< celmin> Right, if the hex is occupied the event will never fire. 20160809 19:55:11< celmin> And the kill tag won't prevent units from moving across. 20160809 19:55:24< celmin> It'll only kill the ones that happen to end their move on that hex. 20160809 19:55:34< Ravana_> kill tag is immediate, not something that is triggered later 20160809 19:55:55< Ravana_> timing you only do with events 20160809 19:57:08< hay207> i just tried now another adjacent empty hex, 20160809 19:57:10< hay207> Ok, let's make it simpler 20160809 19:57:39< hay207> i want to print a label if any event occurs\ 20160809 19:58:15< Ravana_> I think there was example for that 20160809 19:59:14< zookeeper> "i want to print a label if any event occurs" makes no sense. 20160809 19:59:23< zookeeper> and that's not something you'd want to ever do. 20160809 19:59:29< Ravana_> seems I got it from some addon, basically just wesnoth.game_event.on_event 20160809 20:00:01< hay207> ok, i meant you choose an event of your choice 20160809 20:00:42< Ravana_> actually 20160809 20:00:52< Ravana_> wiki says both game_event and game_events in the example 20160809 20:01:03< Ravana_> I believe game_events is correct 20160809 20:01:20< celmin> Ravana_: I think bringing up Lua will not help this guy at all. 20160809 20:01:32< zookeeper> Ravana_, whatever it is you're talking about, don't do it in front of someone who has no idea whatsoever about even the very basics., 20160809 20:01:44< celmin> ^ 20160809 20:04:49< hay207> i guess learning lua will help 20160809 20:04:57 * zookeeper facepalms 20160809 20:05:08< celmin> No, no it won't. 20160809 20:06:21< Ravana_> Lua will be faster to write eventually, but takes some years with WML before 20160809 20:07:02< celmin> That's not a helpful statement in this situation. 20160809 20:07:06< aeth> hay207: Lua is a decent language, but the Wesnoth API isn't the greatest because WML came years earlier so it's very hacky compared to what Lua from the start would have been. 20160809 20:07:24< celmin> Geh, why is everyone suddenly jumping on the wrong bandwagon. 20160809 20:07:39< celmin> He's fumbling around in the dark here. Throwing Lua at him will only make things worse. 20160809 20:07:47-!- RatArmy [~RatArmy@om126212249091.14.openmobile.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 20:07:49< aeth> Lua makes some things way easier and some things way harder. Don't mess with it unless you know WML first. 20160809 20:08:17< celmin> I don't think he even has a basic idea of programming. 20160809 20:08:42< hay207> i read 2 books in c and java 20160809 20:08:56< aeth> celmin: You can mess with Lua without being an experienced programmer, but it definitely doesn't make sense in the context of the Wesnoth API 20160809 20:09:27< celmin> aeth: You need to at least be able to grasp the basics of programming though. 20160809 20:09:44< aeth> I'm probably in the top 5 for Wesnoth-specific Lua in terms of quantity written. 20160809 20:09:52< aeth> If I'm not first 20160809 20:09:53< celmin> hay207: Telling use you read programming books says nothing about whether you understood them. 20160809 20:09:59< celmin> ^us 20160809 20:10:15< aeth> Wesnoth Lua is a pain to debug (and it's basically debug by print statements, except to the chat screen) 20160809 20:10:30< celmin> Someone had some luck getting a Lua debugger to work. 20160809 20:10:39< celmin> Though it's a Windows-only program. 20160809 20:10:55< aeth> Wesnoth Lua is probably one of the hardest programming environments I've worked in for a very high level language. 20160809 20:11:10< aeth> It lacks the fast feedback loop of e.g. Python, JavaScript, etc. 20160809 20:11:16-!- RatArmy [~RatArmy@om126212249091.14.openmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20160809 20:11:19< celmin> Huh? 20160809 20:11:39-!- RatArmy [~RatArmy@om126212249091.14.openmobile.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 20:11:51< aeth> celmin: To test if something is broken you have to essentially go back to the main Wesnoth screen, press F5, go back into the game, and then hope that the action is caught in the chat box when there's an error. 20160809 20:12:13< celmin> That's not totally true though. 20160809 20:12:19< Ravana_> no, WML works that way 20160809 20:12:33< celmin> If you use dofile or require, you can skip the F5 step. 20160809 20:12:49< aeth> celmin: if you use dofile or require, you suddenly require everyone to download your add-on in order to play it 20160809 20:12:52< celmin> And with dofile you don't even need to go back to the menu, probably. 20160809 20:13:00< aeth> celmin: I store my lua files as WML strings so that download isn't required 20160809 20:13:09< aeth> celmin: not even going back to the menu would introduce all sorts of new bugs 20160809 20:13:11< Ravana_> therefore use those only for testing 20160809 20:13:15< aeth> temporary bugs 20160809 20:13:18< celmin> Well, then you're deliberately making it hard for yourself. 20160809 20:13:27< celmin> So it's your own fault. :P 20160809 20:13:35< aeth> I'm not deliberately making it hard, the way Wesnoth MP works is deliberately making it hard. 20160809 20:13:41< aeth> You even have to manually serialize it to save Lua state. 20160809 20:13:54< aeth> That one isn't just me 20160809 20:13:56< celmin> MP does need improvement. 20160809 20:14:19< aeth> Most games that use Lua have better methods, e.g. auto-downloading add-ons when connecting to a game if you don't have the add-on 20160809 20:14:30< aeth> and of course serialization 20160809 20:14:41< aeth> and an API that isn't half WML anyway 20160809 20:14:48< Ravana_> has anyone tested if the auto-download of 1.13 works 20160809 20:14:54< aeth> It's one thing to know Lua, it's another to know WML, and it's another to know how to write WML in Lua 20160809 20:15:00< celmin> Wait, it exists? 20160809 20:15:14< aeth> Ravana_: unfortunately unless things have changed very recently, the last time anyone used development versions for MP was circa 1.3 20160809 20:15:17< aeth> around 2008 20160809 20:15:29< aeth> So I doubt it gets much testing 20160809 20:15:59-!- trewe [~trewe@2001:8a0:d118:6301:52e2:38cb:dbe6:c25] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 20:16:30-!- RatArmy [~RatArmy@om126212249091.14.openmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20160809 20:16:40< Ravana_> once it gets to release candidate stage I will try it, before I don't see point to learn how new preprocessor works 20160809 20:16:55< aeth> When Wesnoth is on Steam, the dev versions can be an opt in beta through Steam, and maybe it'll see some users 20160809 20:17:10< celmin> New preprocessor? 20160809 20:17:15< aeth> ugh 20160809 20:17:20< hay207> nice words aeth 20160809 20:17:38< Ravana_> so that # comment #define isn't comment, but actually tries to make macro 20160809 20:17:44< aeth> not looking forward to new WML changes... it's not the best language from a language design perspective 20160809 20:17:59< aeth> tbh, most proprietary languages miss key things, which is probably why embedding Lua or a Scheme is the way to go 20160809 20:18:04< celmin> Ravana_: What? 20160809 20:18:14< Ravana_> I think I mentioned this in april here 20160809 20:18:18< celmin> You don't want that to make a macro... 20160809 20:18:49-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p200300760F35BF10F9532CCECB2B20D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20160809 20:19:31< Ravana_> well yes, I would expect # to last until end of line 20160809 20:21:56< Ravana_> https://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2016/03/%23wesnoth-dev.2016-03-13.log since 20160313 21:58:13 20160809 20:22:45< hay207> Is there a good addon, that calculates and prints different game statistics 20160809 20:23:13< hay207> i want to learn how to do statistics 20160809 20:23:38< celmin> ... 20160809 20:25:03< zookeeper> that's... not... how it works 20160809 20:25:52< celmin> I'd forgotten about that, Ravana_ 20160809 20:29:48< zookeeper> hay207, no one here knows what the problem is. you pastebinned a piece of code, someone told you what's wrong with it, and then you never respond and an hour later just talk about wanting to "do statistics" again. 20160809 20:30:02-!- RatArmy [~RatArmy@om126212249091.14.openmobile.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 20:31:55< hay207> Ok 20160809 20:40:36-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai] 20160809 20:54:56-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20160809 20:55:28-!- irco [~irco@pD9F697C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 21:32:19-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 21:42:09-!- Samual [~Samual@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 21:44:15-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD036012020120.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20160809 21:48:13-!- irco [~irco@pD9F697C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20160809 22:08:37-!- DMG-LP [~damage@pool-108-29-130-218.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20160809 22:11:11-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD036012028174.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 22:17:55-!- DMG-LP [~damage@pool-108-29-130-218.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 22:19:19-!- HeyCitiz` [~HeyCitize@70.50.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20160809 22:28:05-!- RatArmy [~RatArmy@om126212249091.14.openmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20160809 22:28:41-!- RatArmy [~RatArmy@om126212249091.14.openmobile.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 22:34:59-!- RatArmy [~RatArmy@om126212249091.14.openmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20160809 22:37:04-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai] 20160809 22:40:23-!- HeyCitizen [~HeyCitize@70.50.157.78] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 22:46:41-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ChipmunkV] 20160809 22:51:05-!- DMG-WR0K [~damage@pool-108-29-130-218.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: gone.] 20160809 23:01:00-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20160809 23:23:27-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20160809 23:34:00-!- Glen_ [62f073a8@gateway/web/freenode/session] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 23:34:45-!- Glen_ [62f073a8@gateway/web/freenode/session] has quit [Changing host] 20160809 23:34:45-!- Glen_ [62f073a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.240.115.168] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 23:43:29-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20160809 23:49:03-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-4-224-82.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20160809 23:54:08-!- trewe [~trewe@2001:8a0:d118:6301:52e2:38cb:dbe6:c25] has quit [Quit: quit] --- Log closed Wed Aug 10 00:00:12 2016