--- Log opened Mon Aug 22 00:00:08 2016
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20160822 00:26:01< TheCreatorT> hey all
20160822 00:26:03< TheCreatorT> can i get some help
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20160822 00:26:25< celticminstrel> Maybe.
20160822 00:26:45< TheCreatorT> ho wdo you download stuff form github
20160822 00:27:03< celticminstrel> What for?
20160822 00:28:19< TheCreatorT> Aethaeryn's map
20160822 00:28:27< TheCreatorT> https://github.com/Aethaeryn/wesnoth-umc/tree/master/Aethaeryns_Mod
20160822 00:28:33< TheCreatorT> do i need an account?
20160822 00:28:46< celticminstrel> I think there's a download button somewhere. You shouldn't need an account.
20160822 00:32:14< TheCreatorT> hmmm
20160822 00:32:18< TheCreatorT> wait aeth!
20160822 00:32:43< TheCreatorT> great timing
20160822 00:33:08< celticminstrel> Huh? What timing? I haven't seen him.
20160822 00:33:15< TheCreatorT> i see him on
20160822 00:33:16< TheCreatorT> Aeth
20160822 00:33:28< celticminstrel> Yeah, he's always listed, that doesn't mean he's around.
20160822 00:33:28< TheCreatorT> wait it will notifiy it
20160822 00:33:33< celticminstrel> (Well, almost always.)
20160822 00:33:35< TheCreatorT> righ ti forgot
20160822 00:33:36< TheCreatorT> sorry this is my...
20160822 00:33:38< celticminstrel> He'll be notified, yes.
20160822 00:33:42< TheCreatorT> 3rd day using this
20160822 00:33:46< celticminstrel> But who knows when he'll see it.
20160822 00:33:57< TheCreatorT> aka 5 minutes of actually using thi
20160822 00:36:28< TheCreatorT> well heres hoping
20160822 00:50:03< Polsaker> can't you get that mod from the addon downloader?
20160822 00:50:54< aeth> TheCreatorT: 
20160822 00:51:14< aeth> TheCreatorT: you have to download from the root of the repo, which is wesnoth-umc
20160822 00:51:25< aeth> Polsaker: it's far from complete
20160822 00:51:38< Polsaker> oh
20160822 00:51:43< aeth> for one, save games don't work because of the poorly written half-implementation of Lua that Wesnoth ships with
20160822 00:51:47< aeth> :-p
20160822 00:51:59< aeth> i.e. Lua tables don't persist
20160822 00:52:06< aeth> so, teleporters and shops
20160822 00:52:29< aeth> I might ship an incomplete add-on but not a literally broken one
20160822 00:53:05< Polsaker> the idea is great
20160822 00:53:17< Polsaker> I've only read the readme, but it sounds quite good
20160822 00:53:59< aeth> the second issue the add-on has is the poorly written renderer drives even the literally best computer you can get to its limits with the scope of the map (it has become quite open world)
20160822 00:55:13< aeth> My i7-4790k + GeForce 1080 isn't the best setup, but it's close. I doubt a 6700k + Titan X will see major framerate improvements given the (single threaded?) CPU rendering Wesnoth does
20160822 00:55:52< DeFender1031> But other than that, it's pretty much the most beautiful thing you'll ever see.
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20160822 00:57:03< aeth> (It's possible that the SDL2 rendering on Windows is slightly faster, idk. The nvidia drivers are probably better.)
20160822 00:59:05< Polsaker> wtf
20160822 00:59:13< Polsaker> in the addon list, when I sort by downloads, it doesn't sort by the actual number of download
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20160822 01:01:20< aeth> I am increasingly convinced that Wesnoth's whole "KISS" philosophy is mainly caused by the spaghetti nature of the Wesnoth codebase (e.g. lots of one-off systems half-written in GSOC and then abandoned afaik)
20160822 01:01:59< aeth> I am not surprised at all that there are UI bugs, especially since there are two GUIs in use.
20160822 01:04:20< Polsaker> alright, somehow the bug disappeared
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20160822 01:12:27< aeth> DeFender1031: one thing that I've done a few times, even though it's not the way the game is supposed to be played, just because it keeps testing more interesting, is setting the mobs against the NPCs in local combat
20160822 01:12:46< aeth> basically the largest battles you can get on Wesnoth, although you want to keep the NPCs local because they outnumber starting mobs, and probably spawn in some mobs, just to even it up
20160822 01:15:51< celticminstrel> I assume you're aware of the Lua on_load / on_save hooks.
20160822 01:16:11< celticminstrel> Which you can use to make your data persist.
20160822 01:16:16< TheCreatorT> oh hey
20160822 01:16:17< TheCreatorT> hi
20160822 01:16:21< aeth> celticminstrel: yes, the main issue is converting several thousand lines of Lua, some written literally years ago, into the proper way to do it.
20160822 01:16:41< aeth> stuff that just works, but just works the wrong way, tends to stay alive for another day
20160822 01:16:50< aeth> since it could take several days to rewrite
20160822 01:17:19< TheCreatorT> you could always look for help
20160822 01:17:30< aeth> The other issue of course is a lot of things could take 30 minutes or 1 day (well, a day's worth of Wesnoth programming at least) depending on how many bugs pop up.
20160822 01:17:36< aeth> It's not the easiest way to debug
20160822 01:17:42< TheCreatorT> right
20160822 01:17:56< aeth> TheCreatorT: I'll probably seek help for people who want to play with other eras, since I don't want to mess with keeping it up to date
20160822 01:18:25< celticminstrel> It does require you to store your data in WML-compatible tables, I think.
20160822 01:18:38< aeth> In theory, on this file needs to be modified to support other eras (well, also a few checks that the era is present): https://github.com/Aethaeryn/wesnoth-umc/blob/master/Aethaeryns_Mod/data/units.lua
20160822 01:19:01< aeth> celticminstrel: anything can be (de)serialized into anything else with enough work
20160822 01:20:35< TheCreatorT> you could always post on the forums; look for someone to take your place
20160822 01:20:50< TheCreatorT> i would volunteer but I don't know shit about all of htis
20160822 01:21:02< aeth> Very few people do Lua, unless it's changed very recently.
20160822 01:21:28< aeth> To do Wesnoth Lua you have to know Lua programming and WML programming, since a lot of the Lua is hacky WML-in-Lua stuff.
20160822 01:22:23< TheCreatorT> you never know
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20160822 01:23:34< TheCreatorT> well here's a question
20160822 01:23:46< TheCreatorT> how do you acutally download the map so one cna host it XP
20160822 01:24:12< aeth> TheCreatorT: if you download an add-on manually, you have to put the add-on folder manually in your add-ons path
20160822 01:24:37< aeth> each OS is different, but there's a page in the wiki for this
20160822 01:25:35< TheCreatorT> But how do I download it from github?
20160822 01:25:37< TheCreatorT> lol sorry
20160822 01:25:49< aeth> TheCreatorT: https://github.com/Aethaeryn/wesnoth-umc
20160822 01:25:53< aeth> you have to go to the top apparently
20160822 01:26:14< aeth> I could've sworn you could download only the folder you're in at any level, just like you can have a readme at any level, but I guess that's wrong
20160822 01:26:28< aeth> you either can use git or you can just download a zip
20160822 01:26:28< TheCreatorT> Yeah that is a lot better
20160822 01:26:30< TheCreatorT> SOrry about that
20160822 01:26:33< aeth> I'm guessing a zip is better for one-off
20160822 01:26:43< aeth> TheCreatorT: I might host a game soon
20160822 01:26:45< TheCreatorT> I likely sound like the biggest idiot
20160822 01:26:54< aeth> not really, UIs are just terrible
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20160822 01:27:16< aeth> People have been GUI programming since the 1980s (and before that, even) and they're still hard to navigate in most software and on most websites.
20160822 01:28:43< TheCreatorT> Still I just suck at computers... which is really embarrassing considering my family back ground
20160822 01:30:13< aeth> I think a lot of people go into computers because they suck at computers or because they hate the software they use, etc.
20160822 01:30:28< TheCreatorT> true
20160822 01:30:29< aeth> If I liked the software I used I'd never have learned how to program
20160822 01:30:36< TheCreatorT> very true
20160822 01:30:38< aeth> and I mod games because no one makes the games I want to play
20160822 01:30:43< TheCreatorT> that's really all the problems
20160822 01:30:57< TheCreatorT> those who don't like it will work on it
20160822 01:33:01< aeth> Oh, good, I found an easy way to add gender. Lua might have issues but at least once you put it in tables in a sort of idiomatic Lua way it's easy to extend
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20160822 02:57:15< aeth> okay, I think I'm going to do another test game soon
20160822 03:02:39< aeth> I'll start hosting it now because it might take a while
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20160822 03:09:06< aeth> it's definitely going to take a while unless people from IRC join
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20160822 03:24:04< aeth> celticminstrel: are you interested in playing another game?
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20160822 03:25:24< celticminstrel> Maybe.
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20160822 03:35:46< aeth> TheCreatorT, celticminstrel: No one is joining after 25 or so minutes so it's probably not active enough
20160822 03:35:51< aeth> actually 1 person just joined
20160822 03:37:20< aeth> remade
20160822 03:37:38< aeth> I hope the advice I received was good to remake, in the old days having the game be empty for a while helped its position
20160822 03:40:56< aeth> ok so there's 2 people now
20160822 03:41:10 * celticminstrel poke DeFender1031 and TheCreatorT 
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20160822 03:51:32< aeth> don't worry if you missed it, there is always side 7
20160822 03:52:02 * celticminstrel is totally ready too.
20160822 04:03:41< celticminstrel> For the record, I'm getting 70-90% CPU.
20160822 04:04:33< celticminstrel> Ah, now it's down to ~50%
20160822 04:04:48< aeth> I am only around 15%
20160822 04:04:56< celticminstrel> Performance is fine though on this machine.
20160822 04:04:59< aeth> I thought performance magically fixed itself :(
20160822 04:05:01< celticminstrel> So far.
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20160822 04:42:09< aeth> celticminstrel: did *I* disconnect?
20160822 04:42:22< celticminstrel> Uhh... I disconnected, so I dunno.
20160822 04:45:10< aeth> TheCreatorT: there is a fast replays or something that skips animations
20160822 04:45:59< aeth> "enter blindfolded" I think
20160822 04:46:09< celticminstrel> BTW TheCreatorT, interested in hearing more about that dragon thing...
20160822 04:46:24< aeth> celticminstrel: were you doing something when 3 people disconnected?
20160822 04:46:39< celticminstrel> Last thing I did was send a chat message.
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20160822 04:46:45< celticminstrel> Not sure if it went through.
20160822 04:46:47< aeth> strange
20160822 04:46:51< TheCreatorT> okay how to you private message me
20160822 04:47:32< TheCreatorT> *private message people
20160822 04:47:51< TheCreatorT> also where is enter blind folded
20160822 04:48:01< aeth> at the top of the lobby
20160822 04:48:10< aeth> not very obvious
20160822 04:49:50< TheCreatorT> kk ill do that later
20160822 04:50:39< TheCreatorT> #celticminstrel Well its a funny story...
20160822 04:50:42< TheCreatorT> nope
20160822 04:50:44< TheCreatorT> idk how to do it
20160822 04:50:57 * celticminstrel notes that this is not Twitter; # creates a link to another room.
20160822 04:53:54< TheCreatorT> how do you private message someone lol
20160822 04:54:08< celticminstrel> On IRC? With /query or /msg
20160822 04:54:18< celticminstrel> Or on Wesnoth?
20160822 04:54:34< celticminstrel> Guessing /whisper but not sure.
20160822 05:44:31< shadowm> Seriously? Yes.
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20160822 09:59:24< DeFender1031> Sigh... Time differences. I always seem to be missing the playtests because I'm in the wrong timezone.
20160822 10:00:02< DeFender1031> (I shouldn't even really have been here at all when I was last night, but I was having insomnia.)
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20160822 15:49:54< tripout> hey do the elven ranger profit from invisibility against ai? 
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20160822 15:51:23< tripout> or is it just a multiplayer feature andthe elves with longbow are prefered choice when playing against ai? 
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20160822 15:56:29< celticminstrel> The AI won't move against an invisible unit.
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20160822 15:59:25< tripout> celticminstrel, thanks for your answer. well to know for future upgrades :o) thought that it won't make any sense to choose elven ranger against ai 
20160822 16:00:10< celticminstrel> Why would you think that?
20160822 16:01:42< tripout> because it's ai, and there is a possibility that invisible units are visible for it. 
20160822 16:02:03< celticminstrel> So you're expecting the AI to cheat?
20160822 16:02:25< tripout> i'm really new to this game. was just a question. don't know much about it 
20160822 16:02:58< tripout> not really to cheat, but not implemented inside the code, so that the unit is still visible for the ai 
20160822 16:04:24< celticminstrel> It's possible to make the AI cheat (and ignore invisibility, shroud, etc) using custom Lua AIs, but as far as I know, the default AI has the exact same view of the game as a human player would.
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20160822 16:38:43< mattsc> Yes, that’s correct.  The default AI ignores invisible units for its move/attack evaluations.  The same is not necessarily true for all custom Lua AIs (including the micro AIs), as they were usually written with more restricted uses in mind.
20160822 16:39:11< mattsc> It wouldn’t be hard to add that to a custom AI though.
20160822 16:41:32< celticminstrel> ...some of the micro AIs don't?
20160822 16:41:39< celticminstrel> If so, that should probably be documented.
20160822 16:41:44< celticminstrel> (Or fixed.)
20160822 16:42:24< mattsc> Probably — on both the question and the statement.
20160822 16:50:15< mattsc> As in, I don’t remember which MAIs do or do not and whether it would make a difference for any specific one.
20160822 16:50:25< mattsc> I’ll add it to my list of things to look into.
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20160822 19:11:55< aeth> Someone should tell TheCreatorT that he easily won in the RPG after he had to go... and that's *after* the others set the teleporter goblins on him. That river positioning was just too good.
20160822 19:12:24< celticminstrel> Heh...
20160822 19:12:53< aeth> Some really good RNG for the most part, too.
20160822 19:13:22< aeth> red's quick betrayal bit lost 3 goblins when it shouldn't have even lost one there.
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20160822 23:24:05< TheCreatorT> hey aeth if you are  here sorry for alst night my laptop crashed
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 23 00:00:41 2016