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20160906 13:15:17< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, btw, regarding the conversation the other day about whether "khalifate" is a muslim word: it is. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate
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20160906 13:24:23< celticminstrel> Ah, I guess it is, then.
20160906 13:25:07< celticminstrel> I think the intended meaning in Wesnoth was probably closer to emirate though, as in the UAE. Of course you'd have to ask noy to be sure.
20160906 13:25:36< celticminstrel> Anyway, I'm imagining them having that kind of structure.
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20160906 13:36:46 * celticminstrel wonders what sort of social/political structure Kwandulin gave them in OoA...
20160906 13:38:10< Kwandulin> Something like a "trinity", meaning there are three greater cities that rule over the desert lands, each having their own distinct area of reign https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97230181/Wesnoth/OoA/ooa-icons-map.png
20160906 13:38:47< Kwandulin> There was an attempt to unite all three domains and establish a khalifate, but it got fought back
20160906 13:40:23< celticminstrel> Sort of makes me think of the ancient Greek city-states.
20160906 13:47:52< zookeeper> i can't see how anyone might think it's not "a muslim word"
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20160906 13:49:34< celticminstrel> I was just unaware of its meaning.
20160906 13:49:49< zookeeper> fair enough
20160906 13:51:05< zookeeper> one of the many things that just... should be changed
20160906 13:51:25< celticminstrel> Hmm?
20160906 13:51:51< zookeeper> the name, not your unawareness
20160906 13:52:35< celticminstrel> You think the faction name should be changed?
20160906 13:52:53< zookeeper> yes
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20160906 14:24:38< DeFender1031> zookeeper, the discussion was whether it was a word with religious meaning, i.e. a muslim word vs. an arabic word.
20160906 14:25:22< zookeeper> sure
20160906 14:26:40< DeFender1031> just letting you know how someone might think it's not "a muslim word"
20160906 14:29:49< zookeeper> yeah for me it just so clearly meant specifically an islamic thing and not merely a system of government or whatever
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20160906 16:37:30< aeth> zookeeper: agreed
20160906 16:39:40< celmin> aeth: Hi
20160906 16:49:54< DeFender1031> aeth, which part? That it's clearly islamic or that it should be changed? (Or both?)
20160906 16:50:19< celmin> I also dislike the unit names.
20160906 16:50:27< celmin> No-one knows what they mean.
20160906 16:50:39< celmin> They're impossible to remember.
20160906 16:50:48< celmin> Why not just translate them into English.
20160906 16:51:07< aeth> celmin: no
20160906 16:51:18< aeth> celmin: translate the loyalist names into Welsh
20160906 16:51:30< celmin> Pfffft.
20160906 16:51:56< aeth> DeFender1031: both
20160906 16:52:24< aeth> DeFender1031: if you've ever played Crusader Kings II (a fairly popular strategy game), you can't really see the word as not religious.
20160906 16:52:35< DeFender1031> nope.
20160906 16:55:56< aeth> celmin: You're right, though. It clearly goes against the standard way to name units. It's "Elvish Ranger" not "<elvish word for ranger>"
20160906 16:56:19< aeth> Humans get priority, everything else uses an adjective
20160906 16:56:22< aeth> generally
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20160906 16:56:28< celmin> And Khalifate are human.
20160906 16:56:47< aeth> well, they would have to use an adjective if they e.g. have a separman or swordsman
20160906 16:56:53< aeth> *spearman
20160906 16:57:33< aeth> But what you expect is e.g. "Ranger", "Elvish Ranger", "Orcish Ranger", "Dwarvish Ranger", "Merman Ranger", etc., if a ranger-like unit is added
20160906 16:58:40< aeth> very predictable naming scheme.
20160906 17:00:00< zookeeper> you don't need to call a guy with a sword a "swordsman"
20160906 17:00:23< zookeeper> surely there's plenty of english words that would fit a guy with a sword
20160906 17:00:29< celmin> Bladesmaster
20160906 17:00:36< celmin> Swordfighter
20160906 17:00:45< celmin> Uhh...
20160906 17:00:48< celmin> Not sure what else.
20160906 17:00:52< aeth> Fencer, Duelist, Master at Arms
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20160906 17:04:51< aeth> there are lots of words for fighter, raider, warrior, etc., that can be used generically in addition to using names related to the weapon (duelist is kind of like this in the fencer line)
20160906 17:05:29< celmin> Fencer does imply a sword, but it implies a very specific class of sword.
20160906 17:05:47< aeth> adjectives can even modify these words to be non-tanky units, e.g. "Arcane Warrior" might imply some sort of melee mage
20160906 17:06:00< aeth> and in Wesnoth specifically, a melee mage who does arcane damage
20160906 17:06:21< aeth> (not like melee mages would play particularly differently in Wesnoth besides taking more damage on attack)
20160906 17:06:54< aeth> so 2-3 words gives you enough without having to leave English
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20160906 21:01:47< can-ned_food> there needs to be a special scenario added when HttT gets rewritten.
20160906 21:01:58< celmin> Why?
20160906 21:03:18< can-ned_food> because i really think the princess deserves some special punishments
20160906 21:03:29< DeFender1031> huh?
20160906 21:03:59< celmin> Huh?
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20160906 21:04:40< can-ned_food> oh, i'm sure one of the characters would want to take her to some dungeon and set a few wolves on her for a while
20160906 21:04:54< DeFender1031> in what context?
20160906 21:05:08< vultraz> . . . the fuck
20160906 21:05:10< can-ned_food> make her suffer for what she does?
20160906 21:05:13< can-ned_food> eh?
20160906 21:05:22< can-ned_food> problem vultraz?
20160906 21:06:06< zookeeper> wolves are such a crass solution, try cuddles instead
20160906 21:08:23< celmin> :
20160906 21:08:25< celmin> :|
20160906 21:08:46< DeFender1031> I honestly have no idea what can-ned_food is talking about.
20160906 21:08:54< vultraz> ignore him, he's a troll
20160906 21:09:15< celmin> Well, whether he's a troll in general, I don't know, but he's sure trolling right now.
20160906 21:10:11< can-ned_food> huh?  haha, no i'm not.
20160906 21:10:13< zookeeper> i dunno, i think any serious trolling regarding li'sar needs to include calling her fat
20160906 21:11:51< can-ned_food> and that hurts, minstrel.  when did i ever seem like a troll to you?
20160906 21:12:04< celmin> Just now, duh.
20160906 21:12:36< DeFender1031> can-ned_food has not seemed like a troll to me in the past.
20160906 21:12:46< celmin> Yeah
20160906 21:13:37< DeFender1031> I, for one, would be willing to give the benefit of the doubt for the moment, assuming can-ned_food explains what the heck s/he's talking about.
20160906 21:14:24< can-ned_food> i mean, i don't mind having a trollish sense of humor when it the situation arises.  but i try not to practice puerile conflagration, which is what most people think of when they describe trolling.
20160906 21:17:02< can-ned_food> but anyways, one of the rewrites should allow for a branch.  it occurs to me that someone in Konrad's ranks would have some grudges of their own against Lisar
20160906 21:17:17< can-ned_food> or maybe that's already in the pipeline
20160906 21:17:24< celmin> I doubt it.
20160906 21:17:51< DeFender1031> seems like a strange plot tangent and one that doesn't really fit.
20160906 21:18:59< can-ned_food> do they ever really resolve the distrust between her and Konrad?  not that i really care for storied campaigns in Wesnoth, granted.
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20160906 21:20:52< DeFender1031> sure they do
20160906 21:21:43< DeFender1031> and to me, wesnoth is great precisely BECAUSE it's a great tool for storytelling.
20160906 21:25:36< zookeeper> i would hardly call wesnoth a _great_ tool for storytelling :P
20160906 21:27:08< can-ned_food> well, you have the portraits and text messages.  but to me the lack of inventory or proper dialogue and the strange terrain simulation detract quite a bit.
20160906 21:27:19< can-ned_food> but maybe that's just me.
20160906 21:27:25< celmin> Inventory us doable.
20160906 21:27:28< celmin> ^is
20160906 21:27:39< celmin> I don't see what's wrong with the terrain simulation.
20160906 21:29:30< can-ned_food> i'm just wondering what the scale is there.  and what is a village anyway?
20160906 21:29:36< can-ned_food> but w/e
20160906 21:29:46< celmin> A village is whatever you want it to be.
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20160906 21:31:56< zookeeper> the scale is abstract, naturally.
20160906 21:31:59< can-ned_food> well, whatever.  i myself like the game, of course, just that i don't placed very far on the role–play end of the spectrum.
20160906 21:32:18< can-ned_food> s/placed/place it/
20160906 21:32:33< can-ned_food> my typing is atrocious today.
20160906 21:32:38< zookeeper> well it's not an RPG, so yeah
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20160906 21:37:25< DeFender1031> Good story is not synonymous with RPG
20160906 21:37:37< zookeeper> that too
20160906 21:38:24< can-ned_food> yeah, yeah.  there's just something about Wesnoth's presentation that bothers me, and i haven't analyzed it yet.
20160906 21:39:06< can-ned_food> i would disagree slightly with you, DeFender, but that's a whole nother line of discussion.
20160906 21:39:59< DeFender1031> on what point?
20160906 21:41:04< DeFender1031> (I don't mind discussion :P)
20160906 21:41:22< DeFender1031> (In fact, I rather enjoy it.)
20160906 21:41:46< can-ned_food> well, it's rather involved.  in summary, the more you involve personalities the less you emphasize the theme and more the roles of those persons regardless of theme.
20160906 21:42:09< can-ned_food> rheme!  dammit, 's/theme/rheme/'
20160906 21:43:00< can-ned_food> or, whatever.  i'm tired today.
20160906 21:44:01< DeFender1031> i'm not sure i follow
20160906 21:45:11< can-ned_food> yeah, don't worry.  just forget i ever existed and you'll do fine.  anyways, adios.
20160906 21:45:47< can-ned_food> i guess i should go back to my cave, since i'm a troll.  ;-)
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20160906 22:03:41< aeth> I finally added "all" of the spawns.
20160906 22:10:24< celmin> Yay!
20160906 22:11:46< aeth> it looks like almost all of the work I should now be doing is on inventory and upgrades
20160906 22:13:41< aeth> (and of course the never-ending map cleanup)
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 07 00:00:56 2016