--- Log opened Wed Oct 26 00:00:35 2016
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20161026 09:56:20< lamefun> What's some mod where you can enable and disable counterattacks?
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20161026 10:15:55< zookeeper> i'm pretty sure there isn't one
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20161026 10:30:10< lamefun> So I'm on my own? :(
20161026 10:30:37< lamefun> "Only toggle buttons and panels are allowed as the cells of a list definition." - why?
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20161026 12:41:51< DeFender1031> lamefun, that'd be a question for vultraz
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20161026 12:49:52< lamefun> Is there a way to remove [object] from a unit?
20161026 12:54:53< Kwandulin> [remove_object], there doesn't seem to be a wiki entry, though: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=603068#p603068
20161026 12:55:50< lamefun> 1.13 :(
20161026 12:55:58< lamefun> Will it be released soon?
20161026 12:56:58< Kwandulin> I guess it will be in the newest 1.13 dev version which is planned to be released at the end of october
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20161026 13:15:49< DeFender1031> there's also a macro somewhere on the wiki that works for 1.12... let me
20161026 13:15:52< DeFender1031> find it
20161026 13:15:58< DeFender1031> (hit enter too soon)
20161026 13:16:14< DeFender1031> lamefun, https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Removing_Items
20161026 13:18:03< DeFender1031> Is there a way to modify a unit's image? It seems that setting a unit's .image and then unstoring doesn't work, it just reverts to the default image for that unit type or variation.
20161026 13:20:01< DeFender1031> there also seems to be no [effect] to do it.
20161026 13:20:56< DeFender1031> i mean, image_mod could be hacked to do it with IPF by alphaing out the existing image and then BLITting the new one on, but that's very icky and could cause conflicts with other image mods.
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20161026 14:13:18< lamefun> Is it possible to rehash a unit after a manual removal or reordering of objects, to apply the objects in order again?
20161026 14:14:19< Ravana_> I believe forcing unit to advance will do it
20161026 14:14:46< lamefun> That's what I don't want to do...
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20161026 14:21:23< DeFender1031> lamefun, you can advance a unit to the same type techincally
20161026 14:22:56< lamefun> won't it still heal and stuff?
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20161026 14:26:22< DeFender1031> you can always save its health and exp pre-advance and then reapply them
20161026 14:27:00< lamefun> what else changes?
20161026 14:27:58< lamefun> maybe [transform_unit] can be used?
20161026 14:29:47< lamefun> seems to work...
20161026 14:36:59< lamefun> Well, it ALMOST works...
20161026 14:37:21< lamefun> But something always keeps switching defense_weight for every attack to 1 when the unit is actually attacked
20161026 14:38:00< lamefun> I mean, I inspect the unit, the attack-disabling object is in place, the attacks that are supposed to be disabled are disabled.
20161026 14:38:15< lamefun> But when I end turn and the unit is attacked, all attacks go back to defense_weight=1.
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20161026 14:41:01< DeFender1031> lamefun, another option would be to remove all members of the unit which will be affected by the objects before the unstore, allowing them to revert to default and then be operated on by the objects.
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20161026 14:41:39< lamefun> wesnoth.put_unit is the same as unstore? I'm using Lua.
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20161026 14:43:28< DeFender1031> removing those members ought to revert to the default the same way for put_unit.
20161026 14:43:54< DeFender1031> there may be subtle differences between put_unit and unstore, but i doubt they'd be relevant here.
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20161026 14:54:01< lamefun> well
20161026 14:54:03< lamefun> it works
20161026 14:54:48< lamefun> but there's still that problem, the attacks are disabled, but get magically re-enabled
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20161026 15:13:45< DeFender1031> then i would imagine that your objects aren't properly set up to do what you want
20161026 15:14:03-!- GamBorisJohnson is now known as Gambit
20161026 15:14:30< DeFender1031> though... by what method are you storing the unit?
20161026 15:15:18< lamefun> doesn't matter anymore
20161026 15:15:25< lamefun> i'm going to use another hack
20161026 15:15:33< DeFender1031> okay, have fun then.
20161026 15:15:53< lamefun> modify attacks themselves before battle and then restore
20161026 15:16:11< DeFender1031> i've done that.
20161026 15:17:07< DeFender1031> i actually have a certain unit in my campaign with an "uncontrolled magic" attack where the attack acutally even changes between rounds of the same attack sequence.
20161026 15:17:12< vultraz> [21:30:37]	lamefun	"Only toggle buttons and panels are allowed as the cells of a list definition." - why?
20161026 15:17:17< vultraz> implementation restriction
20161026 15:17:48< DeFender1031> hey vultraz, any help with my unit image question above?
20161026 15:18:13< vultraz> hm?
20161026 15:18:23< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 4:48:18 pm] <DeFender1031> Is there a way to modify a unit's image? It seems that setting a unit's .image and then unstoring doesn't work, it just reverts to the default image for that unit type or variation.
20161026 15:18:24< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 4:50:17 pm] <DeFender1031> there also seems to be no [effect] to do it.
20161026 15:18:26< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 4:51:11 pm] <DeFender1031> i mean, image_mod could be hacked to do it with IPF by alphaing out the existing image and then BLITting the new one on, but that's very icky and could cause conflicts with other image mods.
20161026 15:18:43< vultraz> use a variation and transform the unit to that variation
20161026 15:19:10< DeFender1031> that works if i have access to modify the unit type wml...
20161026 15:19:36< DeFender1031> what if it's a core unit?
20161026 15:19:47< DeFender1031> (or from another add-on, i suppose)
20161026 15:20:31< vultraz> rather stuck, I think.
20161026 15:20:51< DeFender1031> is there a reason that the image can't be modified on the unit level? clearly each unit actually carries that around, as it appears in the game state inspector
20161026 15:21:12< vultraz> No idea
20161026 15:21:40< vultraz> i can't really help you here :P
20161026 15:21:45< vultraz> gui question, yes
20161026 15:22:14< DeFender1031> who would know?
20161026 15:23:14< DeFender1031> or maybe i'll just go source diving myself
20161026 15:23:20< vultraz> zookeeper or celticminstrel
20161026 15:23:58< zookeeper> DeFender1031, and the modified .image doesn't appear _anywhere_?
20161026 15:24:56< DeFender1031> zookeeper, nope, and even more, :inspect shows the image= as the one belonging to the original unit type, despite the variable that the unit was unstored from clearly showing image= whatever the new one is.
20161026 15:25:31< DeFender1031> If that's not actually intended behavior, then I can get you a testcase.
20161026 15:25:48< zookeeper> well, i see no reason to assume that it's specifically intended behavior.
20161026 15:26:05< DeFender1031> nor do I. It seems odd to not be able to.
20161026 15:26:17< DeFender1031> so let me throw together a testcase
20161026 15:27:03< zookeeper> of course even if it would be retained, it might still not show up on the map because the unit is displaying a default standing animation and not its .image. i wouldn't know.
20161026 15:38:51< DeFender1031> zookeeper, http://paste.nachsoftware.com/DeFender1031/kqyDwY63913dbebe6f19df7965810cdfe36c9eSw
20161026 15:40:13< DeFender1031> zookeeper, i'd imagine the standing animation would update along with the image if the image would hold an update, given that other animations which aren't given a [frame] default to the unit's image.
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20161026 16:56:13< lamefun> DeFender1031, I found the source of my problem.
20161026 16:56:54< lamefun> The Colosseum fast AI that I kept all this time and was afraid to look at because there's "AI" in the file name.
20161026 16:58:31< lamefun> It disabled all attacks right before the AI got its turn, and then quickly restored them to 1 when the AI was about to attack and then restored them to 0 after the attack was complete.
20161026 17:00:15< lamefun> Probably to make the AI think that all my units were defenseless and never try to escape or hold position.
20161026 17:04:46< DeFender1031> that's... not how AI should be done.
20161026 17:10:17< vultraz> ... what?
20161026 17:10:26< vultraz> that's horrible design :|
20161026 17:11:06< mattsc> It’s always so nice having people make comments like that ...
20161026 17:11:08< zookeeper> newsflash: sometimes you need horrible design to make things work.
20161026 17:12:39< lamefun> The saddest part is that it probably server 0 purpose whatsoever, I already had "caution=0.0" in the AI settings...
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20161026 17:15:08< vultraz> mattsc: ?
20161026 17:17:49< mattsc> vultraz: both you and DeFender1031 made very negative comments about something that you don’t know much about and based on incomplete and quite possibly at least partially incorrect information.
20161026 17:18:28< mattsc> lamefun: those two things (caution and disabling attacks) do not do the same thing
20161026 17:19:44< vultraz> mattsc: I'm sorry :( as I don't understand the ai stuff myself perhaps I am not in a position to fully judge. Apologies.
20161026 17:19:57< DeFender1031> mattsc, is it incorrect to say that an ai should not be messing with a unit's attacks or other permanent data?
20161026 17:20:42< mattsc> DeFender1031: as a general statement, yes
20161026 17:21:01< mattsc> see zookeeper’s comment
20161026 17:21:14< DeFender1031> that's true i suppose.
20161026 17:21:27< mattsc> vultraz: you might not even be incorrect, but you don’t have the information to make that statement
20161026 17:21:39< DeFender1031> mattsc, then I take back my statement and apologize.
20161026 17:21:56< vultraz> What he said.
20161026 17:22:40< mattsc> DeFender1031, vultraz: no apologies needed, it just rubbed me the wrong way more so than usual.  :)
20161026 17:23:28< DeFender1031> mattsc, legitimate. I understand why it would.
20161026 17:24:50< DeFender1031> mattsc, also, I misread the original comment. Didn't realize it was referring to the attacks left attribute, thought it was referring to the stats of the attacks themselves.
20161026 17:25:05< DeFender1031> attacks left makes a lot of sense to mess with in AI.
20161026 17:25:23< mattsc> I don’t even know what specifcially that Colloseum AI does.  My guess is that it uses an existing AI not taking one of its limitations into account.  Or maybe it does, but the additions that lamefun is trying to do don’t.
20161026 17:25:43< mattsc> DeFender1031: actually, most likely it messes with the attacks aspect.
20161026 17:25:59< DeFender1031> (though anything messing with them SHOULD track that somehow so that it respects the original number)
20161026 17:26:55< DeFender1031> well then that's just completely different and not wrong at all.
20161026 17:27:31< mattsc> … but no I am making statements based on incomplete information; I really don’t know.
20161026 17:27:36< mattsc> s/no/now
20161026 17:29:02< mattsc> Actually, or an additional interpretation of what lamefun wrote is that it is done in WML, in which case it doesn’t even have anything to do with the AI.
20161026 17:33:12< lamefun> This is the "AI" in question: http://paste.ofcode.org/y4SGdknkMh4MPNcy54wbE5
20161026 17:34:43< mattsc> lamefun: Ah, yes, that’s not AI code at all.
20161026 17:35:40< mattsc> But that still has a very different effect from setting caution=0.
20161026 17:37:05< mattsc> However, setting aggression=1 might have the same effect (not 100% sure of that)
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20161026 18:02:03< mattsc> “DeFender1031: mattsc, is it incorrect to say that an ai should not be messing with a unit's attacks or other permanent data?”
20161026 18:02:35< mattsc> Btw, I misread that ^ statement, as it is not how I had interpreted what was going on.  As a general principle, I do agree with that.
20161026 18:03:05< mattsc> (and it turns out it is not what is happening, which is good)
20161026 18:04:05< lamefun> BTW I found out that setting defense_weight to 0 in attack does not work at all!
20161026 18:05:01< lamefun> http://paste.ofcode.org/33pteCEeq3K4gWcmMuskUrG
20161026 18:05:27< lamefun> The unit still defends itself, and the attack does 120 damage, so the code works.
20161026 18:05:49< DeFender1031> mattsc, so basically, a whole series of people misreading what other people wrote. lamefun misread the code, I misread what lamefun said about the code, you misread what I said about what lamefun said, etc. :P
20161026 18:06:17< zookeeper> lamefun, so what was the intent? that the unit wouldn't retaliate at all?
20161026 18:06:18< mattsc> Indeed.  Isn’t electronic conversation fun!  :P
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20161026 18:06:25< lamefun> yes
20161026 18:07:35< lamefun> I basically made a menu where you can choose which attacks should a unit use for defense.
20161026 18:07:45< zookeeper> right
20161026 18:08:20< zookeeper> well, set the defense_weight at that time. or was the problem that it might be reverted by some other thing that happens to the unit, between the menu and an attack?
20161026 18:08:24< lamefun> Now if I disable the code that restores the defense_weight to its original value.
20161026 18:08:38< lamefun> First attack: it defends itself, second attack: it does not (as intended).
20161026 18:11:51< mattsc> lamefun: I have used defense_weight=0 to disable certain attacks, so I know in principle it works (or used to work).  I did this in WML rather than Lua, but that should (in theory) make no difference.
20161026 18:12:09< mattsc> The two things in () are potential problems, of course.
20161026 18:12:17< zookeeper> it's just too late to apply it in an attack event
20161026 18:12:44< zookeeper> or so i assume
20161026 18:12:58< lamefun> Seems so.
20161026 18:13:41< lamefun> If I disable the code that reverts the defense_weight, it starts to work after the first attack.
20161026 18:14:32< lamefun> the damage=120 is applied immediately though
20161026 18:14:35< zookeeper> one alternative approach to defense_weight could be to use the [disable] weapon special
20161026 18:15:44< mattsc> lamefun: oh, you do this in an attack event?
20161026 18:17:06< mattsc> Yes, at that point the attack/defense is already chosen — but they are probably only identified by their numbers, so that’s why the damage change takes effect right away
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20161026 18:35:01< celticminstrel> You should set the defense_weight whenever the menu is used to choose which attacks the unit uses.
20161026 18:35:07< celticminstrel> Not in an attack event.
20161026 18:37:35< lamefun> [disable] tag is better
20161026 18:38:16< lamefun> no events needed, conflicts less other stuff/mods/eras
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20161026 18:57:48< DeFender1031> that's what i love about wesnoth. There's a dozen ways to skin your cat, and all of them have some kind of drawback.
20161026 19:09:52< zookeeper> har
20161026 19:19:35< lamefun> Well, the [disable] tag has no drawbacks, and works.
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20161026 19:23:40< lamefun> some attacks don't have attack.icon, how does Wesnoth find them?
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20161026 19:32:19< DeFender1031> lamefun, what do you mean?
20161026 19:32:45< lamefun> it doesnt have icon="..." in [attack]
20161026 19:32:55< lamefun> yet Wesnoth still shows an icon
20161026 19:33:41< DeFender1031> what icon are you seeing?
20161026 19:33:58< lamefun> the icon of the attack
20161026 19:34:05< DeFender1031> ...
20161026 19:34:16< lamefun> I need to replicate this in my chooser dialog or some attacks will show blank icons
20161026 19:34:22< DeFender1031> I mean what image?
20161026 19:34:33< zookeeper> it uses the name of the attack
20161026 19:34:46< zookeeper> name=sword -> images/attacks/sword.png
20161026 19:35:03< DeFender1031> oh. that's an interesting feature that I simply didn't know about.
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20161026 19:44:02< DeFender1031> ...because the wiki documented that behavior under "name" rather than "icon" where someone would naturally look for it. Fixed that.
20161026 19:44:23< DeFender1031> zookeeper, any info for me on that unit.image thing from earlier?
20161026 19:45:15< zookeeper> well, i don't think i have anything more to say about it
20161026 19:46:14< DeFender1031> are you planning on looking into the code?
20161026 19:47:46< zookeeper> no, not really my kind of thing
20161026 19:52:58< DeFender1031> would celticminstrel be a better person to ask?
20161026 19:53:19< celticminstrel> Hmm?
20161026 19:53:20< DeFender1031> whatever, i've already pinged you, celmin.
20161026 19:53:48< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 4:48:18 pm] <DeFender1031> Is there a way to modify a unit's image? It seems that setting a unit's .image and then unstoring doesn't work, it just reverts to the default image for that unit type or variation.
20161026 19:53:49< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 4:50:17 pm] <DeFender1031> there also seems to be no [effect] to do it.
20161026 19:53:51< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 4:51:11 pm] <DeFender1031> i mean, image_mod could be hacked to do it with IPF by alphaing out the existing image and then BLITting the new one on, but that's very icky and could cause conflicts with other image mods.
20161026 19:54:08< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 6:54:13 pm] <zookeeper> DeFender1031, and the modified .image doesn't appear _anywhere_?
20161026 19:54:10< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 6:55:12 pm] <DeFender1031> zookeeper, nope, and even more, :inspect shows the image= as the one belonging to the original unit type, despite the variable that the unit was unstored from clearly showing image= whatever the new one is.
20161026 19:54:11< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 6:55:47 pm] <DeFender1031> If that's not actually intended behavior, then I can get you a testcase.
20161026 19:54:13< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 6:56:04 pm] <zookeeper> well, i see no reason to assume that it's specifically intended behavior.
20161026 19:54:14< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 6:56:21 pm] <DeFender1031> nor do I. It seems odd to not be able to.
20161026 19:54:16< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 6:56:33 pm] <DeFender1031> so let me throw together a testcase
20161026 19:54:17< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 6:57:19 pm] <zookeeper> of course even if it would be retained, it might still not show up on the map because the unit is displaying a default standing animation and not its .image. i wouldn't know.
20161026 19:54:19< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 7:09:07 pm] <DeFender1031> zookeeper, http://paste.nachsoftware.com/DeFender1031/kqyDwY63913dbebe6f19df7965810cdfe36c9eSw
20161026 19:54:20< DeFender1031> [10/26/2016 7:10:29 pm] <DeFender1031> zookeeper, i'd imagine the standing animation would update along with the image if the image would hold an update, given that other animations which aren't given a [frame] default to the unit's image.
20161026 19:54:33< celticminstrel> Uhh, pasting large amounts of stuff isn't a great idea.
20161026 19:54:37< celticminstrel> Anyway...
20161026 19:54:57< DeFender1031> ah, sorry, that was more than i thought
20161026 19:55:35< celticminstrel> My first guess would be that you need to work with unit animations, but... I don't know of any way to remove an animation, so that might not work...
20161026 19:56:33< celticminstrel> If you change the image, the new image doesn't even show in the sidebar?
20161026 19:57:49< DeFender1031> nope
20161026 19:58:05< DeFender1031> as i said, even :inspect shows the unit still has the old image set on it
20161026 19:58:18< DeFender1031> try running the testcase
20161026 19:58:36< DeFender1031> (though for all I know this is a bug that was fixed in master already by something unrelated)
20161026 19:58:55< celticminstrel> ...
20161026 19:59:02< DeFender1031> hmm?
20161026 19:59:16< celticminstrel> A stored unit is just a WML table.
20161026 19:59:31< celticminstrel> If you set the image subvariable there should be no reason for that step to fail.
20161026 20:01:12< lamefun> Can I handle double-clicks in Lua dialogs?
20161026 20:01:59< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, i'm aware of that. My point is that even though that gets set on the variable, it reverts for some reason when unstoring the actual unit.
20161026 20:02:30< DeFender1031> lamefun, that'd be another question for vultraz
20161026 20:02:38 * vultraz groans
20161026 20:03:12< vultraz> i dont think so
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20161026 20:06:18< lamefun> can I force a dialog to close?
20161026 20:06:46< DeFender1031> give whatever button you want to close it a return value.
20161026 20:10:10< lamefun> i want to close it on list selection instantly
20161026 20:10:51< vultraz> you can give the listbox toggle panel a return value
20161026 20:10:58< vultraz> return_value_id = 'ok' or something
20161026 20:11:03< vultraz> and it should close on double click
20161026 20:12:37< lamefun> Also, there's listbox, but is there a widget that allows the creation of a row of identical things, but which doesn't support selection?
20161026 20:13:19< vultraz> no
20161026 20:13:22< vultraz> well
20161026 20:13:26< vultraz> actually, yes
20161026 20:13:29< vultraz> a tree view
20161026 20:13:39< vultraz> but idk how well that works in 1.12
20161026 20:13:44< vultraz> most especially lua support
20161026 20:13:49< celticminstrel> Tree view doesn't support selection?
20161026 20:14:10< vultraz> celticminstrel: more like tree views support a lack of selection
20161026 20:14:42< vultraz> a listbox needs a toggle panel or button so it has a selection
20161026 20:14:51< vultraz> but tree views have no such restriction
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20161026 20:19:07< lamefun> Are treeviews even in 1.12?
20161026 20:20:05< vultraz> yes
20161026 20:20:26< gfgtdf> the luaapi for treeviews was added in 1.13
20161026 20:21:04< gfgtdf> in 1.12 you cannot do things like adding noted to treeviews whcih makes them useless in lua dialogs.
20161026 20:21:12< gfgtdf> nodes*
20161026 20:22:01< lamefun> completely useless? not even as listview?
20161026 20:22:16< celticminstrel> Well, if there's no way to add nodes...
20161026 20:23:14< celticminstrel> An empty tree view isn't very useful.
20161026 20:23:16< gfgtdf> treeviews also suport selection if you add a selection  togglepanel to each node, unlike in listboxes it is also possible to have such togglepanels onyl on a few types of nodes so only them can be selected.
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20161026 23:17:03< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: did you test the try (...) change ?
--- Log closed Thu Oct 27 00:00:27 2016